Bitcoin vs Blockchain with Patrick Lowry | Bitcoin Infinity Show #153

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If you are the U.S.

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government,

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you don't go after tether

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and try to arrest the team

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behind tether

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and put them behind bars

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for what you alleged money

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laundering

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or anything like that.

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You think the

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I love them for doing more

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for the benefit of the U.S.

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dollar

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than the government

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has for the last 100 years?

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Here's where I like tether

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is because you meet people

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from Colombia,

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meet people from Venezuela,

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you meet people from Africa.

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They don't

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necessarily need Bitcoin.

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They're not there necessarily

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to generate wealth.

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They just want something

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more stable

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than their own currency.

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And the US dollar represents

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that very well for them.

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99% of the big companies

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in Bitcoin colluded

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to increase the block size.

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And it was never

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about the blocksize.

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It was all about control.

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If they had succeeded,

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that would have meant that

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they were in control

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of the development

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of the protocol.

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But they weren't

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because the users were.

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Patrick.

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Welcome to the

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Bitcoin Infinity Show.

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Nice to have you here.

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I thank you so much

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for having me here today.

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It's a pleasure to meet.

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Yes.

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Since this is the first time

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we're having you on,

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why don't you give,

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our listeners

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a tldr on who you are

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and what you do

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and how you found Bitcoin

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and all of that? Good stuff.

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Oh, I could talk

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about that forever.

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But just a quick tldr

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about who I am and what I do.

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So my name is Patrick Lowrey.

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I'm the CEO of Samara

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Asset Group.

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Samara Asset Group

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is a publicly traded

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holding company

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based out of Malta, albeit

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publicly listed in Germany.

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Our primary focus is on

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deploying our balance

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sheet into funds.

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We basically have,

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over 20 funds

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that we are participants

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in as, limited partners.

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And we leverage Bitcoin

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as our primary Treasury

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reserve asset.

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So any assets

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that we don't currently

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have deployed

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to the funds in our platform

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is actively

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managed in Bitcoin.

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Oh, that's

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that's a mouthful.

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So it is

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I could keep going

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if you'd like me to.

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Yeah.

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Please do

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please expand a bit on that

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and how did this come to be?

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Like what?

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Where did it start from?

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And like what?

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What's the

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what's the trajectory here?

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What is the future

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you envision?

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Yeah, sure.

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So, Samarra massacre

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was actually founded,

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back in January of 2018,

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by German entrepreneur

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Christian Ingabire

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and Mike Novogratz of Galaxy.

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I don't think

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I need to explain

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to anybody who that is.

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Basically, the idea was back

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at that time

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to create a merchant bank

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for all things

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crypto in Europe.

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And you might remember back

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then, Malta

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was really pushing this

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blockchain island stuff.

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They really wanted to have,

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this new regulatory framework

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to welcome the exchanges,

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welcome token issuers, etc.,

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which actually for a while

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was going reasonably

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well for the island.

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They ended up having

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a whole bunch

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of the exchanges

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like Binance and OKEx

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come over

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and it started

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to push

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a little bit of adoption

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until basically

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the ECB looked at them

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and said, well,

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the fuck you are right.

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You're you're clearly not,

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adhering to European

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banking laws

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by allowing

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what you want to have happen,

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happen in Malta.

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So unfortunately,

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they weren't really ever able

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to get Cryptology Asset

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Group to be the merchant bank

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that they were intending

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during that period of time.

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But cryptology did invest

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in a handful of companies

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in the bitcoin

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and the crypto space that

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did phenomenally well.

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One of which was

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actually the company

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I was CEO of

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at the time, Deutsche,

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a digital assets,

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used to be called iconic.

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I'm just an expert

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when it comes to rebranding,

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I suppose.

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But iconic was one

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of the very

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first issuers of Etps

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backed

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and traded

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by Bitcoin

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and other crypto

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assets in Europe.

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We started that back in 2020

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or so after many years

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of work.

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Other companies

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that cryptology had invested

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in included,

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Block.one,

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who I probably don't have

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to necessarily

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introduce to everybody.

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They were

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the issuers

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of the EOS Bitcoin.

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And they went on to

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have a large Bitcoin

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balance sheet,

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which being a shareholder

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of block one,

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we absolutely loved

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because that gave us

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indirect exposure

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to Bitcoin from day one.

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We were also invested

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in Northern data,

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which is a publicly listed

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European miner of Bitcoin.

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They're one of the largest

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in Europe.

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And over the last few years

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they've been focusing on

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HPC and AI.

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So we're actually

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pretty excited about

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how that investment went.

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But in 2021,

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when I initially stepped in

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to some of our asset group

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and took over as CEO,

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I looked at

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or I had a conversation

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with our shareholders

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and said, look,

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we can continue

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to use our balance sheet

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to invest in early stage

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crypto companies as,

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cryptology had been doing

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at that point in time.

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Or I think

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it would be much wiser

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for us

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to use our balance sheet.

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And instead of investing

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500 K or small checks here

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and there into new projects

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or into new companies

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in the crypto space, rather,

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I felt it would be

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a better strategy

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for us to deploy

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to asset managers themselves

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to actually deploy to funds.

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That way,

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we wouldn't

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have to build out

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an army of analysts

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and significantly increase

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the amount of people

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that we're working at Samora

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and therefore our overhead.

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But rather

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we could leverage

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the network,

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leverage the infrastructure

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and leverage

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the due diligence

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that all of the managers

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that we would be

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deploying to,

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and our shareholders

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would therefore

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be able

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to participate indirectly,

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of course,

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in the performance

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of the managers

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that we would deploy

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our balance sheet to.

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So since then,

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we built up that position

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of over 21 limited

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partnership stakes and funds.

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But in parallel,

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because I am,

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at the end of the day,

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a Bitcoin or myself,

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we do use Bitcoin

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as our primary treasury

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reserve asset.

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And at this moment in time,

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I think we're sitting on

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something like 540 Bitcoin.

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This recording's

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in early February.

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And that is,

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largely from liquidations

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of assets

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that we've had

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on our balance sheet prior,

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as well

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as at the end of

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last year, 2024.

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We became,

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at least to my knowledge,

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the first issuer

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of a bond in Europe

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from a publicly

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traded company,

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that was backed

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and collateralized

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by Bitcoin.

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We raised €21 million

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in that bonds.

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Or what I like to say

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is roughly

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$21 million,

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for obvious

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marketing reasons.

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We were pretty excited with,

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our successful placement

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there.

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Okay, so so I'm going to have

307
00:06:21,125 --> 00:06:22,541
to, to,

308
00:06:22,541 --> 00:06:23,708
unwrap this a bit

309
00:06:23,708 --> 00:06:25,458
and ask about the,

310
00:06:25,458 --> 00:06:26,291
the ethics

311
00:06:26,291 --> 00:06:27,000
of the whole thing.

312
00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:27,958
So like,

313
00:06:27,958 --> 00:06:29,166
what is your like

314
00:06:29,166 --> 00:06:30,583
how has your position

315
00:06:30,583 --> 00:06:31,750
on bitcoins

316
00:06:31,750 --> 00:06:33,000
changed over the years

317
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:34,750
and what is your position now

318
00:06:34,750 --> 00:06:35,500
and what did it

319
00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:38,125
start out like like so yeah.

320
00:06:38,125 --> 00:06:39,791
So from my perspective

321
00:06:39,791 --> 00:06:41,583
I first

322
00:06:41,583 --> 00:06:41,833
I mean,

323
00:06:41,833 --> 00:06:42,291
I remember

324
00:06:42,291 --> 00:06:43,166
the very first time

325
00:06:43,166 --> 00:06:44,625
I heard of Bitcoin,

326
00:06:44,625 --> 00:06:46,500
I was working back at

327
00:06:46,500 --> 00:06:48,000
PwC, PricewaterhouseCoopers.

328
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,208
This was maybe 2011, 2012,

329
00:06:50,208 --> 00:06:51,875
something along those lines.

330
00:06:51,875 --> 00:06:53,041
And I had a friend

331
00:06:53,041 --> 00:06:53,583
that worked

332
00:06:53,583 --> 00:06:54,666
in the tech department

333
00:06:54,666 --> 00:06:55,750
at TWC,

334
00:06:55,750 --> 00:06:56,833
and he basically said,

335
00:06:56,833 --> 00:06:57,708
like, look, I mean,

336
00:06:57,708 --> 00:06:58,541
so I was actually on

337
00:06:58,541 --> 00:06:59,375
top of the world

338
00:06:59,375 --> 00:07:00,000
at that moment

339
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,500
because I had gotten

340
00:07:01,500 --> 00:07:02,375
what I thought was

341
00:07:02,375 --> 00:07:04,416
a great Christmas bonus.

342
00:07:04,416 --> 00:07:06,500
I got a whole $500

343
00:07:06,500 --> 00:07:07,291
Christmas bonus.

344
00:07:07,291 --> 00:07:08,708
Check from PwC.

345
00:07:08,708 --> 00:07:10,083
And I was a young kid, too

346
00:07:10,083 --> 00:07:11,166
stupid to know any better,

347
00:07:11,166 --> 00:07:11,916
so I thought I was on

348
00:07:11,916 --> 00:07:13,125
top of the world.

349
00:07:13,125 --> 00:07:14,208
Anyways, my friend

350
00:07:14,208 --> 00:07:15,041
in the tech department

351
00:07:15,041 --> 00:07:16,000
said, hey, you know what?

352
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,000
Take that $500, put it on

353
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:19,500
this thing called Bitcoin.

354
00:07:19,500 --> 00:07:20,750
Thank me later.

355
00:07:20,750 --> 00:07:22,625
So I did,

356
00:07:22,625 --> 00:07:24,291
I took the $500 on bitcoin.

357
00:07:24,291 --> 00:07:24,541
And when,

358
00:07:24,541 --> 00:07:25,416
you know, at about 2

359
00:07:25,416 --> 00:07:26,375
or 3 months later,

360
00:07:26,375 --> 00:07:27,375
that $500

361
00:07:27,375 --> 00:07:28,208
was magically worth

362
00:07:28,208 --> 00:07:29,041
about $100.

363
00:07:29,041 --> 00:07:30,083
So I yelled at my friend

364
00:07:30,083 --> 00:07:31,000
and said, this Bitcoin

365
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:31,375
thing is

366
00:07:31,375 --> 00:07:32,666
the stupidest thing on earth.

367
00:07:32,666 --> 00:07:33,250
I can't believe

368
00:07:33,250 --> 00:07:34,000
I put money on it

369
00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,416
and that was it.

370
00:07:35,416 --> 00:07:36,708
Now fast forward,

371
00:07:36,708 --> 00:07:37,375
a couple of years.

372
00:07:38,666 --> 00:07:41,416
I get to 2015, 2016,

373
00:07:41,416 --> 00:07:41,833
and I

374
00:07:41,833 --> 00:07:43,291
had left the United States

375
00:07:43,291 --> 00:07:44,291
and was living in Germany

376
00:07:44,291 --> 00:07:45,333
at the time.

377
00:07:45,333 --> 00:07:46,375
I had just completed

378
00:07:46,375 --> 00:07:47,208
my MBA

379
00:07:47,208 --> 00:07:48,625
here, and I actually started

380
00:07:48,625 --> 00:07:49,416
working for the Deutsche,

381
00:07:49,416 --> 00:07:50,291
a business venture

382
00:07:50,291 --> 00:07:51,416
capital team.

383
00:07:51,416 --> 00:07:52,000
Deutsche, a buzz

384
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:53,125
of being the operator

385
00:07:53,125 --> 00:07:54,291
of the Frankfurt stock

386
00:07:54,291 --> 00:07:55,375
market, the largest stock

387
00:07:55,375 --> 00:07:57,333
market in Europe.

388
00:07:57,333 --> 00:07:59,208
Now,

389
00:07:59,208 --> 00:08:00,750
we had five main

390
00:08:00,750 --> 00:08:02,000
areas of focus

391
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:02,625
that we were going

392
00:08:02,625 --> 00:08:03,333
to be investing,

393
00:08:03,333 --> 00:08:04,000
and one of which

394
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:05,625
was blockchain and DLT.

395
00:08:05,625 --> 00:08:07,291
So mind you, this is 2015

396
00:08:07,291 --> 00:08:08,041
and we're looking

397
00:08:08,041 --> 00:08:08,958
at the Ethereum

398
00:08:08,958 --> 00:08:11,250
ICO going, Holy shit,

399
00:08:11,250 --> 00:08:13,333
these ICOs are going

400
00:08:13,333 --> 00:08:15,458
to completely destroy

401
00:08:15,458 --> 00:08:17,916
how capital formation works.

402
00:08:17,916 --> 00:08:19,875
And I actually do still

403
00:08:19,875 --> 00:08:20,625
at my core

404
00:08:20,625 --> 00:08:21,208
believe not

405
00:08:21,208 --> 00:08:22,333
necessarily in ICOs

406
00:08:22,333 --> 00:08:23,666
or certainly not ICOs,

407
00:08:23,666 --> 00:08:23,916
the way

408
00:08:23,916 --> 00:08:24,833
that they ended up going,

409
00:08:24,833 --> 00:08:25,500
because frankly,

410
00:08:25,500 --> 00:08:26,000
they all just

411
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,250
ended up becoming

412
00:08:27,250 --> 00:08:29,041
by and large scams.

413
00:08:29,041 --> 00:08:29,833
But I fell in love

414
00:08:29,833 --> 00:08:30,541
with the concept

415
00:08:30,541 --> 00:08:31,708
of tokenization.

416
00:08:31,708 --> 00:08:32,750
And I would say that

417
00:08:32,750 --> 00:08:33,458
that is where

418
00:08:33,458 --> 00:08:33,791
even though

419
00:08:33,791 --> 00:08:35,708
I held Bitcoin before,

420
00:08:35,708 --> 00:08:37,500
the idea that all assets

421
00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:39,250
would inevitably be tokenized

422
00:08:39,250 --> 00:08:41,416
and secured on a blockchain,

423
00:08:41,416 --> 00:08:43,500
that was so self-evident

424
00:08:43,500 --> 00:08:43,833
to me,

425
00:08:43,833 --> 00:08:44,791
that's where my foray

426
00:08:44,791 --> 00:08:46,416
into crypto started.

427
00:08:46,416 --> 00:08:49,166
So I believe that all debts,

428
00:08:49,166 --> 00:08:49,958
all equities,

429
00:08:49,958 --> 00:08:51,083
all parcels of land,

430
00:08:51,083 --> 00:08:52,625
bars of gold, etc.

431
00:08:52,625 --> 00:08:54,333
would be tokenized

432
00:08:54,333 --> 00:08:56,833
and traded on a blockchain.

433
00:08:56,833 --> 00:08:57,666
So that is where

434
00:08:57,666 --> 00:08:58,333
I really started

435
00:08:58,333 --> 00:08:59,166
to get into crypto.

436
00:08:59,166 --> 00:09:01,166
I founded my company iconic.

437
00:09:01,166 --> 00:09:02,375
We began actually

438
00:09:02,375 --> 00:09:04,666
has an investor in ICOs,

439
00:09:04,666 --> 00:09:05,416
and I would be

440
00:09:05,416 --> 00:09:06,000
more than happy

441
00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:06,875
to tell you about that

442
00:09:06,875 --> 00:09:07,500
because I think

443
00:09:07,500 --> 00:09:08,458
we were actually doing it

444
00:09:08,458 --> 00:09:10,083
the right way before.

445
00:09:10,083 --> 00:09:10,291
Well,

446
00:09:10,291 --> 00:09:10,708
we ended up

447
00:09:10,708 --> 00:09:12,250
going down the ETP route,

448
00:09:12,250 --> 00:09:13,916
but I mean,

449
00:09:13,916 --> 00:09:15,125
I still hold to my core

450
00:09:15,125 --> 00:09:16,583
that all assets inevitably

451
00:09:16,583 --> 00:09:18,250
will be tokenized.

452
00:09:18,250 --> 00:09:19,083
And with the

453
00:09:19,083 --> 00:09:20,041
advent of Bitcoin

454
00:09:20,041 --> 00:09:21,541
layer tos for me, I'm

455
00:09:21,541 --> 00:09:22,416
really excited to see

456
00:09:22,416 --> 00:09:23,250
what will happen

457
00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:25,333
when all global assets around

458
00:09:25,333 --> 00:09:27,500
the world will be traded on

459
00:09:27,500 --> 00:09:29,375
and secured by Bitcoin.

460
00:09:31,125 --> 00:09:31,541
All right.

461
00:09:31,541 --> 00:09:33,333
This is this is the fun part.

462
00:09:33,333 --> 00:09:34,750
But because this is where

463
00:09:34,750 --> 00:09:36,666
we get into a hard disagree

464
00:09:36,666 --> 00:09:37,625
because I don't believe

465
00:09:37,625 --> 00:09:39,708
in tokenization at all.

466
00:09:39,708 --> 00:09:41,375
And the reason I don't is

467
00:09:41,375 --> 00:09:42,333
that I don't believe

468
00:09:42,333 --> 00:09:42,958
in blockchain

469
00:09:42,958 --> 00:09:44,541
technology at all.

470
00:09:44,541 --> 00:09:45,458
Because I believe

471
00:09:45,458 --> 00:09:48,000
that the blockchain is a,

472
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:49,333
or as I prefer to call it,

473
00:09:49,333 --> 00:09:49,708
the time

474
00:09:49,708 --> 00:09:51,583
chain is a byproduct

475
00:09:51,583 --> 00:09:54,041
of the Bitcoin technology,

476
00:09:54,041 --> 00:09:55,750
which is more, of course,

477
00:09:55,750 --> 00:09:56,458
which is more of

478
00:09:56,458 --> 00:09:57,666
a social agreement

479
00:09:57,666 --> 00:09:59,625
than an actual technology.

480
00:09:59,625 --> 00:10:01,333
So in my mind, it's

481
00:10:01,333 --> 00:10:02,958
a it's a, an agreement

482
00:10:02,958 --> 00:10:04,541
on a fixed set of rules.

483
00:10:04,541 --> 00:10:05,958
And the reason that we agree

484
00:10:05,958 --> 00:10:07,708
on this specific set of rules

485
00:10:07,708 --> 00:10:09,666
is because the rules are more

486
00:10:09,666 --> 00:10:10,541
that they're set up

487
00:10:10,541 --> 00:10:11,541
in such a way

488
00:10:11,541 --> 00:10:12,833
that they're more expensive

489
00:10:12,833 --> 00:10:14,166
to try to break

490
00:10:14,166 --> 00:10:15,833
than to just follow.

491
00:10:15,833 --> 00:10:18,250
And there is no such thing

492
00:10:18,250 --> 00:10:20,083
exists in the crypto sphere

493
00:10:20,083 --> 00:10:22,083
or in the token sphere,

494
00:10:22,083 --> 00:10:23,791
because in the token sphere,

495
00:10:23,791 --> 00:10:25,458
it is

496
00:10:25,458 --> 00:10:27,083
cheaper for an attacker

497
00:10:27,083 --> 00:10:28,000
to try to attack

498
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:28,958
the system than

499
00:10:29,916 --> 00:10:30,125
it's.

500
00:10:30,125 --> 00:10:30,958
Or it's

501
00:10:30,958 --> 00:10:32,500
at least it's not necessarily

502
00:10:32,500 --> 00:10:34,208
more expensive,

503
00:10:34,208 --> 00:10:35,375
which it is in Bitcoin

504
00:10:35,375 --> 00:10:36,416
because in Bitcoin

505
00:10:36,416 --> 00:10:37,375
the users are

506
00:10:37,375 --> 00:10:38,208
actually in charge.

507
00:10:38,208 --> 00:10:39,541
And my conviction

508
00:10:39,541 --> 00:10:41,041
came from the outcome

509
00:10:41,041 --> 00:10:42,250
of the box size wars,

510
00:10:42,250 --> 00:10:44,250
which was like, holy,

511
00:10:44,250 --> 00:10:45,250
holy shit moment.

512
00:10:45,250 --> 00:10:47,125
Because like 99%

513
00:10:47,125 --> 00:10:48,083
of the big companies

514
00:10:48,083 --> 00:10:49,291
in Bitcoin

515
00:10:49,291 --> 00:10:50,375
colluded

516
00:10:50,375 --> 00:10:51,666
to increase the block size.

517
00:10:51,666 --> 00:10:52,583
And it was never

518
00:10:52,583 --> 00:10:53,500
about the blocksize.

519
00:10:53,500 --> 00:10:55,291
It was all about control,

520
00:10:55,291 --> 00:10:57,000
where if they had succeeded,

521
00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,041
that would have meant

522
00:10:58,041 --> 00:10:59,500
that they were in control

523
00:10:59,500 --> 00:11:00,666
of the development

524
00:11:00,666 --> 00:11:01,958
of the protocol.

525
00:11:01,958 --> 00:11:02,791
But they weren't

526
00:11:02,791 --> 00:11:04,041
because the users were.

527
00:11:04,041 --> 00:11:05,250
So they had to abide to

528
00:11:05,250 --> 00:11:07,500
whatever market, the market,

529
00:11:07,500 --> 00:11:08,333
whatever signal

530
00:11:08,333 --> 00:11:09,333
the market sent to them.

531
00:11:09,333 --> 00:11:10,833
And this market was clear,

532
00:11:10,833 --> 00:11:11,875
we don't want this.

533
00:11:11,875 --> 00:11:13,416
We are going to abandon ship.

534
00:11:13,416 --> 00:11:14,166
If you do this,

535
00:11:14,166 --> 00:11:15,125
and we're going to continue

536
00:11:15,125 --> 00:11:16,000
on our own chain.

537
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,583
So they all had to bow down

538
00:11:18,583 --> 00:11:19,916
to the node runners

539
00:11:19,916 --> 00:11:21,416
and the users of the network,

540
00:11:21,416 --> 00:11:22,166
which means this is

541
00:11:22,166 --> 00:11:23,500
exactly where Ethereum fucked

542
00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:24,625
up, right?

543
00:11:24,625 --> 00:11:25,833
I mean, whoa, whoa,

544
00:11:25,833 --> 00:11:27,000
the trade. All right.

545
00:11:28,208 --> 00:11:28,958
Yes, but but

546
00:11:28,958 --> 00:11:29,791
this is where I differ

547
00:11:29,791 --> 00:11:30,791
because I don't think

548
00:11:30,791 --> 00:11:31,666
it was a fuck up.

549
00:11:31,666 --> 00:11:32,333
I think it was a

550
00:11:32,333 --> 00:11:33,416
deliberate scam.

551
00:11:33,416 --> 00:11:35,625
It had a 70%, 100% mine.

552
00:11:35,625 --> 00:11:36,750
And I believe that

553
00:11:36,750 --> 00:11:37,916
the founders

554
00:11:37,916 --> 00:11:38,958
were they were

555
00:11:38,958 --> 00:11:40,208
they knew about this

556
00:11:40,208 --> 00:11:41,500
all along,

557
00:11:41,500 --> 00:11:43,041
that if you look at Ethereum,

558
00:11:43,041 --> 00:11:43,791
it's like a long,

559
00:11:43,791 --> 00:11:44,875
slow rug pull

560
00:11:44,875 --> 00:11:45,458
where they had

561
00:11:45,458 --> 00:11:46,750
to change the narrative

562
00:11:46,750 --> 00:11:47,833
over and over

563
00:11:47,833 --> 00:11:48,541
and over again

564
00:11:48,541 --> 00:11:49,291
over the years.

565
00:11:49,291 --> 00:11:49,833
Like, first

566
00:11:49,833 --> 00:11:51,375
it was like a world computer

567
00:11:51,375 --> 00:11:52,500
and there was ultrasound

568
00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:52,833
money

569
00:11:52,833 --> 00:11:55,291
and all sorts of bullshit.

570
00:11:55,291 --> 00:11:56,583
And it was like a little

571
00:11:56,583 --> 00:11:57,333
for the internet,

572
00:11:57,333 --> 00:11:57,666
I think, where

573
00:11:57,666 --> 00:11:58,041
they were trying

574
00:11:58,041 --> 00:11:58,791
to pitch at one point,

575
00:11:58,791 --> 00:11:59,375
the bitcoins,

576
00:11:59,375 --> 00:12:00,541
the gold, Ethereum's

577
00:12:00,541 --> 00:12:01,500
the oil for the internet.

578
00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:02,000
Yeah, yeah.

579
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:02,375
And the

580
00:12:02,375 --> 00:12:03,541
Litecoin was the silver

581
00:12:03,541 --> 00:12:04,333
and blah, blah, blah,

582
00:12:04,333 --> 00:12:05,291
all of this. Exactly.

583
00:12:05,291 --> 00:12:06,666
And it's all bullshit. And,

584
00:12:07,708 --> 00:12:10,041
so if you look at

585
00:12:10,041 --> 00:12:10,750
Ethereum

586
00:12:10,750 --> 00:12:12,125
denominated in Bitcoin,

587
00:12:12,125 --> 00:12:13,750
which is the way, by the way,

588
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:14,833
the only correct way

589
00:12:14,833 --> 00:12:16,625
of denominated anything,

590
00:12:16,625 --> 00:12:17,708
if you're going to

591
00:12:17,708 --> 00:12:18,750
if you're going to have

592
00:12:18,750 --> 00:12:19,458
a measurement

593
00:12:19,458 --> 00:12:21,666
of how your investment

594
00:12:21,666 --> 00:12:23,583
actually performed,

595
00:12:23,583 --> 00:12:24,833
then you can see that,

596
00:12:24,833 --> 00:12:26,541
Ethereum was about twice

597
00:12:26,541 --> 00:12:27,541
as valuable

598
00:12:27,541 --> 00:12:29,041
back in 2017

599
00:12:29,041 --> 00:12:30,166
than in the second bubble

600
00:12:30,166 --> 00:12:31,958
in 2002 and 21.

601
00:12:31,958 --> 00:12:33,416
And now it's just a disaster.

602
00:12:33,416 --> 00:12:34,125
Right.

603
00:12:34,125 --> 00:12:35,750
And and I believe that the

604
00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:37,000
at the core of this

605
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,125
very fundamental problem

606
00:12:39,125 --> 00:12:40,625
is that

607
00:12:40,625 --> 00:12:42,666
the only thing,

608
00:12:42,666 --> 00:12:44,500
quote unquote, digital asset

609
00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:46,625
is, is a, a number

610
00:12:46,625 --> 00:12:47,625
on the internet.

611
00:12:47,625 --> 00:12:49,125
That byte,

612
00:12:49,125 --> 00:12:50,416
for some odd reason,

613
00:12:50,416 --> 00:12:52,375
cannot be copied.

614
00:12:52,375 --> 00:12:54,333
And any copy of that,

615
00:12:54,333 --> 00:12:57,333
any attempt to copy that,

616
00:12:57,375 --> 00:12:58,291
what I prefer

617
00:12:58,291 --> 00:12:59,250
to call a discovery

618
00:12:59,250 --> 00:13:00,333
rather than an invention

619
00:13:00,333 --> 00:13:02,583
just because it's so unique.

620
00:13:02,583 --> 00:13:03,208
Any attempt

621
00:13:03,208 --> 00:13:06,208
to copy that phenomenon is,

622
00:13:06,666 --> 00:13:09,666
inherently doomed to fail.

623
00:13:09,666 --> 00:13:12,083
Or if it succeeds, it it

624
00:13:12,083 --> 00:13:13,000
it would wreck

625
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,791
the entire sphere

626
00:13:14,791 --> 00:13:15,416
like it would

627
00:13:15,416 --> 00:13:16,541
kill Bitcoin to.

628
00:13:16,541 --> 00:13:17,333
If if bitcoin

629
00:13:17,333 --> 00:13:18,541
could be replicated,

630
00:13:18,541 --> 00:13:19,708
it wouldn't work

631
00:13:19,708 --> 00:13:21,041
because the whole

632
00:13:21,041 --> 00:13:22,083
the whole point

633
00:13:22,083 --> 00:13:22,875
is resistance

634
00:13:22,875 --> 00:13:24,166
to replicability.

635
00:13:24,166 --> 00:13:24,958
So like

636
00:13:24,958 --> 00:13:26,083
I'd like to pick your brain

637
00:13:26,083 --> 00:13:26,875
on what you agree

638
00:13:26,875 --> 00:13:27,750
and what you disagree

639
00:13:27,750 --> 00:13:29,666
with with that argument.

640
00:13:29,666 --> 00:13:31,041
So I actually don't disagree

641
00:13:31,041 --> 00:13:31,750
with much of anything

642
00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:33,125
that you said there.

643
00:13:33,125 --> 00:13:34,000
Except for the fact

644
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:34,958
that you don't necessarily

645
00:13:34,958 --> 00:13:37,083
believe in tokenization.

646
00:13:37,083 --> 00:13:38,916
So when I say tokenization,

647
00:13:38,916 --> 00:13:39,375
I don't

648
00:13:39,375 --> 00:13:40,333
necessarily mean

649
00:13:40,333 --> 00:13:41,708
ICO's on Ethereum

650
00:13:41,708 --> 00:13:43,416
or the bullshit NFTs

651
00:13:43,416 --> 00:13:43,916
that we're seeing

652
00:13:43,916 --> 00:13:45,666
launched on Solana

653
00:13:45,666 --> 00:13:46,750
or Pump that fund or

654
00:13:46,750 --> 00:13:48,125
anything along those lines.

655
00:13:49,416 --> 00:13:51,291
Tokenization, I do believe.

656
00:13:51,291 --> 00:13:52,125
So you're going to start

657
00:13:52,125 --> 00:13:52,708
seeing the Deutsche

658
00:13:52,708 --> 00:13:53,583
abuses, the New York

659
00:13:53,583 --> 00:13:54,375
stock exchanges

660
00:13:54,375 --> 00:13:55,750
and the Nasdaq of the world

661
00:13:55,750 --> 00:13:56,625
having blockchain

662
00:13:56,625 --> 00:13:57,666
based exchanges.

663
00:13:57,666 --> 00:13:58,416
Now these are going

664
00:13:58,416 --> 00:13:59,791
to be blockchains

665
00:13:59,791 --> 00:14:01,750
that are permissioned

666
00:14:01,750 --> 00:14:02,125
and they're going

667
00:14:02,125 --> 00:14:02,958
to be blockchains

668
00:14:02,958 --> 00:14:04,375
that are regulated

669
00:14:04,375 --> 00:14:05,041
and governed.

670
00:14:05,041 --> 00:14:06,666
So it's not going to be

671
00:14:06,666 --> 00:14:07,708
a completely open

672
00:14:07,708 --> 00:14:08,500
source blockchain

673
00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:08,791
in the way

674
00:14:08,791 --> 00:14:09,875
that we typically think of

675
00:14:09,875 --> 00:14:10,625
in the bitcoin

676
00:14:10,625 --> 00:14:12,291
in the crypto space.

677
00:14:12,291 --> 00:14:13,583
But I do believe that

678
00:14:13,583 --> 00:14:14,583
having those elements

679
00:14:14,583 --> 00:14:15,166
of assets

680
00:14:15,166 --> 00:14:16,833
traded on a more transparent

681
00:14:16,833 --> 00:14:18,208
ledger system

682
00:14:18,208 --> 00:14:20,375
does make a lot of sense.

683
00:14:20,375 --> 00:14:21,125
So that's where

684
00:14:21,125 --> 00:14:22,625
I think of tokenization

685
00:14:22,625 --> 00:14:23,208
so completely

686
00:14:23,208 --> 00:14:24,166
different than crypto.

687
00:14:24,166 --> 00:14:25,000
How is it

688
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,875
how is a blockchain

689
00:14:26,875 --> 00:14:28,000
more secure

690
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,416
or more transparent

691
00:14:29,416 --> 00:14:31,083
than just,

692
00:14:31,083 --> 00:14:32,250
a spreadsheet

693
00:14:32,250 --> 00:14:33,750
if it's centralized

694
00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:35,666
so it can be changed by,

695
00:14:35,666 --> 00:14:37,000
oh, spreadsheets or easily

696
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:38,125
spreadsheets are very easily

697
00:14:38,125 --> 00:14:39,000
manipulated. Right.

698
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:39,958
But so are blockchain.

699
00:14:39,958 --> 00:14:41,333
So that's my point.

700
00:14:41,333 --> 00:14:42,500
A blockchain that isn't

701
00:14:42,500 --> 00:14:43,541
the Bitcoin time

702
00:14:43,541 --> 00:14:45,375
chain is also trivial

703
00:14:45,375 --> 00:14:46,666
to change and also

704
00:14:46,666 --> 00:14:47,750
erase the history of

705
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,333
because it's not because

706
00:14:50,333 --> 00:14:51,083
it's not governed

707
00:14:51,083 --> 00:14:51,750
by the user.

708
00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:54,000
It's like the whole reason

709
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,500
the time chain works

710
00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:57,458
is because it's being checked

711
00:14:57,458 --> 00:14:58,833
on constantly

712
00:14:58,833 --> 00:15:00,041
by by

713
00:15:00,041 --> 00:15:01,625
the users of the network.

714
00:15:01,625 --> 00:15:03,000
A centralized blockchain

715
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,208
wouldn't be that.

716
00:15:04,208 --> 00:15:04,958
There would be nothing

717
00:15:04,958 --> 00:15:05,583
to prove

718
00:15:05,583 --> 00:15:07,208
that it wasn't tampered with.

719
00:15:07,208 --> 00:15:07,416
Well,

720
00:15:07,416 --> 00:15:08,083
but it doesn't have to be

721
00:15:08,083 --> 00:15:08,458
completely

722
00:15:08,458 --> 00:15:09,416
centralized, right?

723
00:15:09,416 --> 00:15:10,291
So effectively,

724
00:15:10,291 --> 00:15:11,125
if you think about

725
00:15:11,125 --> 00:15:12,333
how capital markets work

726
00:15:12,333 --> 00:15:14,000
today, what is the one

727
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,416
centralized agency

728
00:15:16,416 --> 00:15:18,541
that governs ownership

729
00:15:18,541 --> 00:15:20,250
of any individual assets?

730
00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:21,541
Well, it's the CC'd.

731
00:15:21,541 --> 00:15:22,541
That's quite literally why

732
00:15:22,541 --> 00:15:24,666
we call it the centralized,

733
00:15:24,666 --> 00:15:26,916
depository agency right now

734
00:15:26,916 --> 00:15:28,875
that CC'd recognizes

735
00:15:28,875 --> 00:15:29,250
the moment

736
00:15:29,250 --> 00:15:30,166
in time

737
00:15:30,166 --> 00:15:31,291
that assets

738
00:15:31,291 --> 00:15:33,250
theoretically swap hands.

739
00:15:33,250 --> 00:15:34,750
That is the legal moment

740
00:15:34,750 --> 00:15:36,458
when a equity

741
00:15:36,458 --> 00:15:37,708
or a debt or derivative,

742
00:15:37,708 --> 00:15:38,333
whatever it may

743
00:15:38,333 --> 00:15:39,583
be, is recognized

744
00:15:39,583 --> 00:15:41,500
to have exchanged ownerships

745
00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:42,750
hands like in Europe.

746
00:15:42,750 --> 00:15:44,041
The examples would be euro

747
00:15:44,041 --> 00:15:45,958
clear or Euronext right

748
00:15:45,958 --> 00:15:47,291
are clear stream.

749
00:15:47,291 --> 00:15:49,541
Now in the blockchain

750
00:15:49,541 --> 00:15:50,666
we recognize that

751
00:15:50,666 --> 00:15:51,541
as what happens

752
00:15:51,541 --> 00:15:52,500
whenever one asset

753
00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:53,375
moves from one

754
00:15:53,375 --> 00:15:55,791
wallet to another, right.

755
00:15:55,791 --> 00:15:56,958
One is decentralized,

756
00:15:56,958 --> 00:15:58,416
the other one is centralized.

757
00:15:58,416 --> 00:16:00,541
Right now.

758
00:16:00,541 --> 00:16:01,750
Decentralization.

759
00:16:01,750 --> 00:16:04,250
I do believe, has,

760
00:16:04,250 --> 00:16:07,125
unlike genders, a spectrum.

761
00:16:07,125 --> 00:16:09,500
I do think that there is

762
00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:10,833
full decentralization,

763
00:16:10,833 --> 00:16:11,666
which I think Bitcoin

764
00:16:11,666 --> 00:16:12,750
is the absolute perfect

765
00:16:12,750 --> 00:16:13,500
and most closest

766
00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:13,958
that we've ever

767
00:16:13,958 --> 00:16:14,750
gotten to from that,

768
00:16:14,750 --> 00:16:15,458
especially from a

769
00:16:15,458 --> 00:16:16,958
monetary perspective.

770
00:16:16,958 --> 00:16:17,458
And then you have

771
00:16:17,458 --> 00:16:18,500
full centralization

772
00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:19,333
like the CSD,

773
00:16:19,333 --> 00:16:19,750
and then you have

774
00:16:19,750 --> 00:16:20,208
a whole bunch

775
00:16:20,208 --> 00:16:21,000
of other nonsense

776
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:21,375
and different

777
00:16:21,375 --> 00:16:22,500
consensus mechanisms

778
00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:23,583
in the middle.

779
00:16:23,583 --> 00:16:25,500
Now, in a heavily

780
00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:26,250
regulated world

781
00:16:26,250 --> 00:16:27,416
like our financial markets.

782
00:16:27,416 --> 00:16:28,333
And believe me when I say I'm

783
00:16:28,333 --> 00:16:29,125
not advocating

784
00:16:29,125 --> 00:16:29,833
for regulation,

785
00:16:29,833 --> 00:16:30,708
I'm just acknowledging

786
00:16:30,708 --> 00:16:31,583
the realities

787
00:16:31,583 --> 00:16:32,125
of the system

788
00:16:32,125 --> 00:16:32,791
that we live in.

789
00:16:32,791 --> 00:16:33,750
I think all regulation

790
00:16:33,750 --> 00:16:34,875
is bullshit,

791
00:16:34,875 --> 00:16:36,916
but given the construct

792
00:16:36,916 --> 00:16:37,958
and given the reality

793
00:16:37,958 --> 00:16:39,125
that we exist in today

794
00:16:39,125 --> 00:16:39,875
and how those capital

795
00:16:39,875 --> 00:16:41,375
markets operate,

796
00:16:41,375 --> 00:16:42,541
those market participants,

797
00:16:42,541 --> 00:16:43,125
the users

798
00:16:43,125 --> 00:16:45,000
themselves are brokers.

799
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,208
They're investment banks.

800
00:16:46,208 --> 00:16:46,875
They're the

801
00:16:46,875 --> 00:16:48,458
exchanges themselves,

802
00:16:48,458 --> 00:16:50,500
their placement agents,

803
00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:51,500
those different types

804
00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:52,416
of users,

805
00:16:52,416 --> 00:16:53,041
and somebody

806
00:16:53,041 --> 00:16:54,333
infinitely more intelligent

807
00:16:54,333 --> 00:16:54,958
than I and will have

808
00:16:54,958 --> 00:16:55,541
to create this

809
00:16:55,541 --> 00:16:56,666
consensus mechanism.

810
00:16:56,666 --> 00:16:58,500
But there is a world

811
00:16:58,500 --> 00:16:59,791
that I see

812
00:16:59,791 --> 00:17:01,416
a permissioned

813
00:17:01,416 --> 00:17:02,791
pseudo decentralized.

814
00:17:02,791 --> 00:17:03,458
I don't say fully

815
00:17:03,458 --> 00:17:04,541
decentralized, obviously,

816
00:17:04,541 --> 00:17:06,875
but pseudo decentralized,

817
00:17:06,875 --> 00:17:07,791
blockchain,

818
00:17:07,791 --> 00:17:08,500
where we can

819
00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:10,166
have tokenization and

820
00:17:10,166 --> 00:17:11,833
issuance of these assets.

821
00:17:13,416 --> 00:17:14,125
That's just at least

822
00:17:14,125 --> 00:17:15,791
what my hope would be.

823
00:17:15,791 --> 00:17:16,416
Well, actually,

824
00:17:16,416 --> 00:17:17,125
let me rephrase that.

825
00:17:17,125 --> 00:17:17,916
My hope would be

826
00:17:17,916 --> 00:17:19,000
is that I would like to see

827
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:19,500
a fully

828
00:17:19,500 --> 00:17:20,791
decentralized marketplace

829
00:17:20,791 --> 00:17:22,166
where any market participant

830
00:17:22,166 --> 00:17:23,500
can transact

831
00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:24,333
in these different types

832
00:17:24,333 --> 00:17:24,958
of assets

833
00:17:24,958 --> 00:17:25,416
on top

834
00:17:25,416 --> 00:17:26,541
of a

835
00:17:26,541 --> 00:17:27,916
completely decentralized,

836
00:17:27,916 --> 00:17:28,750
permissionless

837
00:17:28,750 --> 00:17:31,000
and censorship resistant

838
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:31,750
layer one

839
00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:32,500
which effectively

840
00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:33,250
would be Bitcoin

841
00:17:33,250 --> 00:17:34,500
in this case.

842
00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:35,208
I just don't know

843
00:17:35,208 --> 00:17:35,875
if that's going to be

844
00:17:35,875 --> 00:17:37,208
technologically possible.

845
00:17:37,208 --> 00:17:37,958
I don't know

846
00:17:37,958 --> 00:17:39,708
if the core Bitcoiners

847
00:17:39,708 --> 00:17:41,500
are going to allow

848
00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:43,333
for forks of Bitcoin

849
00:17:43,333 --> 00:17:44,416
to get to that road.

850
00:17:44,416 --> 00:17:44,916
I don't think

851
00:17:44,916 --> 00:17:45,500
that's reasonable

852
00:17:45,500 --> 00:17:47,875
to expect that we will.

853
00:17:47,875 --> 00:17:48,708
Layer twos

854
00:17:48,708 --> 00:17:49,750
might be able to offer

855
00:17:49,750 --> 00:17:50,541
that in the future.

856
00:17:50,541 --> 00:17:51,916
But hey, you're sacrificing

857
00:17:51,916 --> 00:17:53,416
decentralization and security

858
00:17:53,416 --> 00:17:54,375
in any way or two,

859
00:17:54,375 --> 00:17:55,916
which is core to Bitcoin's

860
00:17:55,916 --> 00:17:57,708
value proposition. Right.

861
00:17:57,708 --> 00:17:58,500
So it'll be interesting

862
00:17:58,500 --> 00:18:00,666
to see how that transpires.

863
00:18:00,666 --> 00:18:02,083
As new regulation

864
00:18:02,083 --> 00:18:03,375
and new technology develops

865
00:18:03,375 --> 00:18:05,250
over the coming decades.

866
00:18:05,250 --> 00:18:06,333
Yeah.

867
00:18:06,333 --> 00:18:07,583
I Sam, I agree,

868
00:18:07,583 --> 00:18:08,166
I mean,

869
00:18:08,166 --> 00:18:09,541
I do believe that

870
00:18:09,541 --> 00:18:10,875
there's always a trade off.

871
00:18:10,875 --> 00:18:12,000
I wouldn't necessarily say

872
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,541
that you sacrifice

873
00:18:13,541 --> 00:18:14,500
the central station

874
00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:15,541
if you're running your own

875
00:18:15,541 --> 00:18:16,625
lightning nodes.

876
00:18:16,625 --> 00:18:17,708
And so like,

877
00:18:17,708 --> 00:18:18,250
of course, it's

878
00:18:18,250 --> 00:18:18,875
a layer above,

879
00:18:18,875 --> 00:18:21,833
so it has its own trade offs.

880
00:18:21,833 --> 00:18:23,125
But so lightning is unique

881
00:18:23,125 --> 00:18:23,708
in that regard

882
00:18:23,708 --> 00:18:24,208
that it doesn't

883
00:18:24,208 --> 00:18:25,083
really sacrifice

884
00:18:25,083 --> 00:18:26,166
the decentralization

885
00:18:26,166 --> 00:18:27,041
elements.

886
00:18:27,041 --> 00:18:27,333
Does it

887
00:18:27,333 --> 00:18:29,250
sacrifice security

888
00:18:29,250 --> 00:18:30,333
potentially.

889
00:18:30,333 --> 00:18:30,875
But it doesn't

890
00:18:30,875 --> 00:18:31,625
even really look like

891
00:18:31,625 --> 00:18:32,375
it does as well.

892
00:18:32,375 --> 00:18:33,250
I as I say,

893
00:18:33,250 --> 00:18:33,916
you can't have one

894
00:18:33,916 --> 00:18:34,541
without the other.

895
00:18:34,541 --> 00:18:35,541
And this is

896
00:18:35,541 --> 00:18:36,000
where I have

897
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:36,708
the biggest problem.

898
00:18:36,708 --> 00:18:38,000
You have the trilemma

899
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:38,916
where you have the

900
00:18:38,916 --> 00:18:41,208
centralization security and

901
00:18:42,333 --> 00:18:43,083
what's the third one?

902
00:18:43,083 --> 00:18:43,916
Scalability.

903
00:18:43,916 --> 00:18:45,166
Scalability. Exactly.

904
00:18:45,166 --> 00:18:45,416
Yeah.

905
00:18:45,416 --> 00:18:46,416
So, so

906
00:18:46,416 --> 00:18:47,291
and if you,

907
00:18:47,291 --> 00:18:48,791
if you're sacrifice

908
00:18:48,791 --> 00:18:51,000
like if the, the only thing

909
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,625
that doesn't sacrifice,

910
00:18:52,625 --> 00:18:54,083
decentralization and security

911
00:18:54,083 --> 00:18:55,625
right now is bitcoin

912
00:18:55,625 --> 00:18:56,208
and you have to

913
00:18:56,208 --> 00:18:57,333
sacrifice scalability.

914
00:18:57,333 --> 00:18:58,791
Anyone that the sacrifices

915
00:18:58,791 --> 00:19:00,083
one of the other two

916
00:19:00,083 --> 00:19:01,958
is actually sacrificing both

917
00:19:01,958 --> 00:19:02,666
because if you

918
00:19:02,666 --> 00:19:04,458
sacrifice decentralization

919
00:19:04,458 --> 00:19:05,250
then you can't have

920
00:19:05,250 --> 00:19:06,500
the security in the long run,

921
00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:06,791
because

922
00:19:06,791 --> 00:19:07,875
the decentralization is

923
00:19:07,875 --> 00:19:08,625
what makes

924
00:19:08,625 --> 00:19:10,083
the users be in charge

925
00:19:10,083 --> 00:19:11,916
and not the miners.

926
00:19:11,916 --> 00:19:13,416
And if you sacrifice

927
00:19:13,416 --> 00:19:14,791
security, well,

928
00:19:14,791 --> 00:19:16,208
but you're not decentralized.

929
00:19:16,208 --> 00:19:17,208
That not that well,

930
00:19:17,208 --> 00:19:18,083
you're not secure.

931
00:19:18,083 --> 00:19:20,291
So so so

932
00:19:20,291 --> 00:19:21,541
so so that is the thing.

933
00:19:21,541 --> 00:19:22,625
And like

934
00:19:22,625 --> 00:19:23,416
I view it

935
00:19:23,416 --> 00:19:25,875
as if you got perfect money

936
00:19:25,875 --> 00:19:27,333
or damn near perfect money.

937
00:19:27,333 --> 00:19:27,708
Money

938
00:19:27,708 --> 00:19:28,416
that is good enough

939
00:19:28,416 --> 00:19:29,416
to last forever.

940
00:19:29,416 --> 00:19:31,166
Then no token for anything

941
00:19:31,166 --> 00:19:32,250
else is ever needed,

942
00:19:32,250 --> 00:19:33,583
because this money

943
00:19:33,583 --> 00:19:34,625
can be exchanged

944
00:19:34,625 --> 00:19:35,708
for everything else.

945
00:19:35,708 --> 00:19:37,666
So it is actually

946
00:19:37,666 --> 00:19:39,458
already like,

947
00:19:39,458 --> 00:19:40,000
a part

948
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,541
of every stock in the world,

949
00:19:41,541 --> 00:19:43,291
every every bond,

950
00:19:43,291 --> 00:19:45,000
every equity.

951
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,083
It's a part

952
00:19:46,083 --> 00:19:47,208
of everything else, you know,

953
00:19:47,208 --> 00:19:47,916
everything divided

954
00:19:47,916 --> 00:19:48,708
by 21 million.

955
00:19:48,708 --> 00:19:50,208
This is this idea

956
00:19:50,208 --> 00:19:51,000
that this thing

957
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:51,791
can be exchanged

958
00:19:51,791 --> 00:19:52,916
for everything else.

959
00:19:52,916 --> 00:19:53,541
And I well,

960
00:19:53,541 --> 00:19:53,750
that's

961
00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:54,458
where I do believe

962
00:19:54,458 --> 00:19:55,083
that everything

963
00:19:55,083 --> 00:19:56,166
does inevitably

964
00:19:56,166 --> 00:19:57,875
go to zero against bitcoin.

965
00:19:57,875 --> 00:19:58,416
But yeah. Yeah.

966
00:19:58,416 --> 00:19:59,916
Natural price is infinity

967
00:19:59,916 --> 00:20:00,333
right.

968
00:20:00,333 --> 00:20:02,500
I and I think it's very hard

969
00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:03,375
to make an argument

970
00:20:03,375 --> 00:20:03,916
against that

971
00:20:03,916 --> 00:20:05,375
at this point in time.

972
00:20:05,375 --> 00:20:05,541
Yeah.

973
00:20:05,541 --> 00:20:06,208
With that said

974
00:20:06,208 --> 00:20:07,625
because it is money.

975
00:20:07,625 --> 00:20:08,458
That does mean

976
00:20:08,458 --> 00:20:10,666
fundamentally that I mean,

977
00:20:10,666 --> 00:20:12,291
unless you envision a world

978
00:20:12,291 --> 00:20:13,166
where, let's say

979
00:20:13,166 --> 00:20:14,416
there will be no stocks,

980
00:20:14,416 --> 00:20:15,541
there will be no bonds,

981
00:20:15,541 --> 00:20:16,083
there will be

982
00:20:16,083 --> 00:20:16,833
capital markets.

983
00:20:16,833 --> 00:20:17,541
The way we think of

984
00:20:17,541 --> 00:20:18,125
today, I do

985
00:20:18,125 --> 00:20:19,708
I think that's the end game.

986
00:20:19,708 --> 00:20:20,708
I do think that

987
00:20:20,708 --> 00:20:21,416
these things you're

988
00:20:21,416 --> 00:20:21,958
talking about

989
00:20:21,958 --> 00:20:22,916
might make sense

990
00:20:22,916 --> 00:20:24,666
in a transitionary

991
00:20:24,666 --> 00:20:25,833
world, but,

992
00:20:25,833 --> 00:20:27,875
but only if we

993
00:20:27,875 --> 00:20:28,458
we have to keep

994
00:20:28,458 --> 00:20:28,958
the goal in mind.

995
00:20:28,958 --> 00:20:30,166
Because the other thing

996
00:20:30,166 --> 00:20:31,541
that I'm and sorry

997
00:20:31,541 --> 00:20:33,250
for taking up it like,

998
00:20:33,250 --> 00:20:33,625
oh, please,

999
00:20:33,625 --> 00:20:34,750
I love this conversation

1000
00:20:34,750 --> 00:20:37,000
because because I love this.

1001
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,666
Like trying to connect

1002
00:20:38,666 --> 00:20:39,333
with the framing

1003
00:20:39,333 --> 00:20:41,708
here because, the the,

1004
00:20:43,666 --> 00:20:44,833
where was I here.

1005
00:20:44,833 --> 00:20:46,041
Yeah. Ownership.

1006
00:20:46,041 --> 00:20:47,541
So right now, as you say,

1007
00:20:47,541 --> 00:20:49,541
ownership is like of stocks

1008
00:20:49,541 --> 00:20:50,041
and bonds.

1009
00:20:50,041 --> 00:20:51,791
It's the centralized time

1010
00:20:51,791 --> 00:20:53,750
stamping server, basically.

1011
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:54,208
The other time

1012
00:20:54,208 --> 00:20:55,416
stamping is super important

1013
00:20:55,416 --> 00:20:56,541
in, in Bitcoin,

1014
00:20:56,541 --> 00:20:57,958
the Satoshi figured out

1015
00:20:57,958 --> 00:20:58,500
that you can't

1016
00:20:58,500 --> 00:20:59,458
have that centralized

1017
00:20:59,458 --> 00:21:00,333
because that allows

1018
00:21:00,333 --> 00:21:01,083
for double spending.

1019
00:21:01,083 --> 00:21:02,041
That's why we need to sync.

1020
00:21:02,041 --> 00:21:03,250
That's why we need this.

1021
00:21:03,250 --> 00:21:06,000
So in my in my view,

1022
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:06,583
the decent

1023
00:21:06,583 --> 00:21:09,583
realization in Bitcoin is a,

1024
00:21:09,791 --> 00:21:11,166
unfortunate means

1025
00:21:11,166 --> 00:21:13,125
to a much greater end,

1026
00:21:13,125 --> 00:21:15,666
which is, copyable number

1027
00:21:15,666 --> 00:21:17,500
or absolute scarcity.

1028
00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:18,291
Without that,

1029
00:21:18,291 --> 00:21:18,958
you cannot have

1030
00:21:18,958 --> 00:21:20,166
the 21 million.

1031
00:21:20,166 --> 00:21:22,000
It is absolutely dependent

1032
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,208
on its users

1033
00:21:23,208 --> 00:21:24,250
being vigilant enough

1034
00:21:24,250 --> 00:21:25,083
to check on that

1035
00:21:25,083 --> 00:21:26,041
at all times.

1036
00:21:26,041 --> 00:21:26,708
Like otherwise

1037
00:21:26,708 --> 00:21:27,750
that doesn't work.

1038
00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:28,458
So that's why

1039
00:21:28,458 --> 00:21:29,541
the digital energy

1040
00:21:29,541 --> 00:21:31,166
narrative is it's it's

1041
00:21:31,166 --> 00:21:32,166
slightly off

1042
00:21:32,166 --> 00:21:32,916
because without

1043
00:21:32,916 --> 00:21:34,083
the human beings, it would

1044
00:21:34,083 --> 00:21:35,125
there would be nothing.

1045
00:21:35,125 --> 00:21:36,250
There would just be a giant

1046
00:21:36,250 --> 00:21:36,875
nothing burger.

1047
00:21:38,166 --> 00:21:39,791
So ownership

1048
00:21:39,791 --> 00:21:42,666
is a legal,

1049
00:21:42,666 --> 00:21:43,375
relationship

1050
00:21:43,375 --> 00:21:45,500
between you and a thing.

1051
00:21:45,500 --> 00:21:47,000
That's that's what ownership.

1052
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:47,833
It's

1053
00:21:47,833 --> 00:21:49,833
possession is a layer deeper

1054
00:21:49,833 --> 00:21:51,291
because possession is

1055
00:21:51,291 --> 00:21:52,333
you actually

1056
00:21:52,333 --> 00:21:53,833
having access to the thing

1057
00:21:53,833 --> 00:21:55,208
and being able to defend it.

1058
00:21:55,208 --> 00:21:56,250
So, yeah,

1059
00:21:56,250 --> 00:21:58,083
I can steal your car

1060
00:21:58,083 --> 00:21:58,791
and then I'm in

1061
00:21:58,791 --> 00:21:59,541
possession of it.

1062
00:21:59,541 --> 00:22:01,083
But you are the legal owner

1063
00:22:01,083 --> 00:22:02,125
and I can just hope

1064
00:22:02,125 --> 00:22:02,583
that there's

1065
00:22:02,583 --> 00:22:03,541
a police force around

1066
00:22:03,541 --> 00:22:04,791
trying to give us

1067
00:22:04,791 --> 00:22:05,166
what they say.

1068
00:22:05,166 --> 00:22:06,291
Possession is 9/10

1069
00:22:06,291 --> 00:22:07,375
of the law. Right.

1070
00:22:07,375 --> 00:22:10,041
But yeah, exactly.

1071
00:22:10,041 --> 00:22:11,041
But the thing is,

1072
00:22:11,041 --> 00:22:12,583
with Bitcoin

1073
00:22:12,583 --> 00:22:13,833
you cannot own it

1074
00:22:13,833 --> 00:22:14,708
and you cannot

1075
00:22:14,708 --> 00:22:16,666
even possess it. Yeah.

1076
00:22:16,666 --> 00:22:18,000
The only thing you can do

1077
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:18,708
is hope

1078
00:22:18,708 --> 00:22:20,583
that no one else has access

1079
00:22:20,583 --> 00:22:22,166
to the same key as you do.

1080
00:22:22,166 --> 00:22:23,333
So everything in Bitcoin

1081
00:22:23,333 --> 00:22:24,625
is probabilistic,

1082
00:22:24,625 --> 00:22:26,750
and the only reason you say

1083
00:22:26,750 --> 00:22:28,000
that you own it

1084
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,083
is because you find it

1085
00:22:30,083 --> 00:22:30,916
very unlikely

1086
00:22:30,916 --> 00:22:31,666
that someone else

1087
00:22:31,666 --> 00:22:32,875
holds the keys.

1088
00:22:32,875 --> 00:22:33,708
And the only

1089
00:22:33,708 --> 00:22:35,208
reason that you say that

1090
00:22:35,208 --> 00:22:36,291
there will only ever be

1091
00:22:36,291 --> 00:22:37,208
21 million

1092
00:22:37,208 --> 00:22:38,333
is because you find it

1093
00:22:38,333 --> 00:22:39,333
very improbable

1094
00:22:39,333 --> 00:22:40,625
that everyone on earth

1095
00:22:40,625 --> 00:22:41,208
would agree

1096
00:22:41,208 --> 00:22:42,541
to change that number

1097
00:22:42,541 --> 00:22:43,791
at some point in time

1098
00:22:43,791 --> 00:22:44,916
like this.

1099
00:22:44,916 --> 00:22:46,666
But at the end of the day,

1100
00:22:46,666 --> 00:22:47,750
these are just numbers

1101
00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:49,250
and probabilities.

1102
00:22:49,250 --> 00:22:50,250
It's yeah,

1103
00:22:50,250 --> 00:22:52,083
this is like an abstraction,

1104
00:22:52,083 --> 00:22:53,708
like a very abstract

1105
00:22:53,708 --> 00:22:55,666
thought trying to bridge the

1106
00:22:55,666 --> 00:22:57,083
the subjective world

1107
00:22:57,083 --> 00:22:58,666
with the objective reality.

1108
00:22:58,666 --> 00:23:00,125
Like that's what it is.

1109
00:23:00,125 --> 00:23:01,958
And we've finally

1110
00:23:01,958 --> 00:23:03,625
figured it out in that sense.

1111
00:23:05,250 --> 00:23:06,666
I don't know if I can explain

1112
00:23:06,666 --> 00:23:07,291
it better than that,

1113
00:23:07,291 --> 00:23:08,375
but this is why

1114
00:23:08,375 --> 00:23:08,583
I mean,

1115
00:23:08,583 --> 00:23:09,083
I absolutely

1116
00:23:09,083 --> 00:23:10,625
love the concept, but,

1117
00:23:10,625 --> 00:23:12,166
when you say tokenization

1118
00:23:12,166 --> 00:23:13,708
and owning this on

1119
00:23:13,708 --> 00:23:15,458
a blockchain here,

1120
00:23:15,458 --> 00:23:17,333
this and that, to me,

1121
00:23:17,333 --> 00:23:18,791
these are all mirages.

1122
00:23:18,791 --> 00:23:21,041
And and there are,

1123
00:23:21,041 --> 00:23:22,833
at best, prolonging

1124
00:23:22,833 --> 00:23:23,708
the system

1125
00:23:23,708 --> 00:23:25,000
we're living in now

1126
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,041
and not necessarily

1127
00:23:26,041 --> 00:23:27,416
helping hyper

1128
00:23:27,416 --> 00:23:28,208
bitcoin ization

1129
00:23:28,208 --> 00:23:29,166
happen faster,

1130
00:23:29,166 --> 00:23:29,791
which I think

1131
00:23:29,791 --> 00:23:31,291
should always be the goal.

1132
00:23:31,291 --> 00:23:31,791
Hello there,

1133
00:23:31,791 --> 00:23:32,666
fellow Bitcoiners.

1134
00:23:32,666 --> 00:23:33,958
Take your coins off

1135
00:23:33,958 --> 00:23:35,541
the exchange right now.

1136
00:23:35,541 --> 00:23:36,250
You need to take

1137
00:23:36,250 --> 00:23:37,750
self-custody of your coins.

1138
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:38,666
Now, how do you do that?

1139
00:23:38,666 --> 00:23:39,208
First of all,

1140
00:23:39,208 --> 00:23:40,791
you need a good hardware

1141
00:23:40,791 --> 00:23:41,125
wallet.

1142
00:23:41,125 --> 00:23:42,333
And I would recommend

1143
00:23:42,333 --> 00:23:43,458
the beatbox.

1144
00:23:43,458 --> 00:23:44,666
So go to beatbox

1145
00:23:44,666 --> 00:23:46,500
Dot Swiss Slash Infinity

1146
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:47,416
and get your beef box

1147
00:23:47,416 --> 00:23:48,583
now with a discount.

1148
00:23:48,583 --> 00:23:50,041
Also, you need somewhere

1149
00:23:50,041 --> 00:23:51,625
to store your seed phrase.

1150
00:23:51,625 --> 00:23:52,916
So why not get one of those

1151
00:23:52,916 --> 00:23:54,291
wonderful steel seed

1152
00:23:54,291 --> 00:23:56,041
plate storage thingies

1153
00:23:56,041 --> 00:23:57,750
from Stamps.com

1154
00:23:57,750 --> 00:23:58,708
slash infinity

1155
00:23:58,708 --> 00:23:59,875
and you can get the

1156
00:23:59,875 --> 00:24:00,750
everything divided

1157
00:24:00,750 --> 00:24:01,958
seed plate. It's beautiful.

1158
00:24:01,958 --> 00:24:03,625
Also, if you're advanced

1159
00:24:03,625 --> 00:24:05,750
and if you want to start

1160
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:06,000
with the

1161
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,333
generational wealth thing,

1162
00:24:07,333 --> 00:24:08,791
which is a fun hobby I have,

1163
00:24:08,791 --> 00:24:09,541
you can go to

1164
00:24:09,541 --> 00:24:10,625
the Bitcoin Advisor

1165
00:24:10,625 --> 00:24:12,208
group of lovely fellows

1166
00:24:12,208 --> 00:24:12,750
from Down

1167
00:24:12,750 --> 00:24:13,416
Under that

1168
00:24:13,416 --> 00:24:14,125
can help you

1169
00:24:14,125 --> 00:24:15,375
store your Bitcoin

1170
00:24:15,375 --> 00:24:16,625
for a long time

1171
00:24:16,625 --> 00:24:18,291
using Multi-sig solutions.

1172
00:24:18,291 --> 00:24:20,125
So check out pip box,

1173
00:24:20,125 --> 00:24:20,875
Stamp Seed

1174
00:24:20,875 --> 00:24:22,541
and the Bitcoin Advisor

1175
00:24:22,541 --> 00:24:24,208
or Chief White.

1176
00:24:25,208 --> 00:24:26,083
Back to the show.

1177
00:24:26,083 --> 00:24:27,041
So let me ask you this.

1178
00:24:27,041 --> 00:24:28,291
What does

1179
00:24:28,291 --> 00:24:29,833
what does that to you.

1180
00:24:29,833 --> 00:24:30,250
Hyper

1181
00:24:30,250 --> 00:24:30,791
bitcoin is

1182
00:24:30,791 --> 00:24:31,666
Asian look like

1183
00:24:31,666 --> 00:24:32,500
because it probably doesn't

1184
00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:33,500
look like Michael

1185
00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:35,041
Saylor buying as much bitcoin

1186
00:24:35,041 --> 00:24:37,166
as humanly possible. Right?

1187
00:24:37,166 --> 00:24:37,708
Absolutely.

1188
00:24:37,708 --> 00:24:39,166
It doesn't look like

1189
00:24:39,166 --> 00:24:41,375
my samsara asset group using

1190
00:24:41,375 --> 00:24:41,625
I mean,

1191
00:24:41,625 --> 00:24:42,291
we try to stack

1192
00:24:42,291 --> 00:24:43,416
as much bitcoin as we can.

1193
00:24:43,416 --> 00:24:44,375
Obviously just on that

1194
00:24:44,375 --> 00:24:45,000
and I salute

1195
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:46,291
your shareholders.

1196
00:24:46,291 --> 00:24:47,375
But at the end of the day

1197
00:24:47,375 --> 00:24:48,000
we use Bitcoin

1198
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:48,625
as our Treasury

1199
00:24:48,625 --> 00:24:50,041
reserve asset.

1200
00:24:50,041 --> 00:24:52,750
Do you own your own keys.

1201
00:24:52,750 --> 00:24:53,166
Yes.

1202
00:24:53,166 --> 00:24:54,333
So we do hold our own keys

1203
00:24:54,333 --> 00:24:55,250
except for the assets

1204
00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:55,833
that we deploy

1205
00:24:55,833 --> 00:24:57,250
into our managers.

1206
00:24:57,250 --> 00:24:58,416
We do have a couple of funds

1207
00:24:58,416 --> 00:24:59,291
that were invested in

1208
00:24:59,291 --> 00:25:00,458
that are denominated

1209
00:25:00,458 --> 00:25:01,750
in Bitcoin.

1210
00:25:01,750 --> 00:25:02,833
Those managers themselves,

1211
00:25:02,833 --> 00:25:03,875
of course, hold their keys.

1212
00:25:03,875 --> 00:25:04,541
But that's just the way

1213
00:25:04,541 --> 00:25:05,750
that we use bitcoin

1214
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:06,875
to compound Bitcoin.

1215
00:25:06,875 --> 00:25:07,958
We earn bitcoin in

1216
00:25:07,958 --> 00:25:09,458
Bitcoin right.

1217
00:25:09,458 --> 00:25:10,291
All right.

1218
00:25:10,291 --> 00:25:10,958
But outside of that

1219
00:25:10,958 --> 00:25:12,708
we do have our own keys.

1220
00:25:12,708 --> 00:25:14,125
We also do custody

1221
00:25:14,125 --> 00:25:15,083
with other providers

1222
00:25:15,083 --> 00:25:15,541
just because

1223
00:25:15,541 --> 00:25:16,833
we're a regulated company.

1224
00:25:16,833 --> 00:25:17,875
So we do have to have

1225
00:25:17,875 --> 00:25:18,541
a certain element

1226
00:25:18,541 --> 00:25:19,250
of our assets

1227
00:25:19,250 --> 00:25:21,083
deposited in custodians

1228
00:25:21,083 --> 00:25:22,000
just because, hey,

1229
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:22,750
it's not your keys,

1230
00:25:22,750 --> 00:25:24,041
not your crypto.

1231
00:25:24,041 --> 00:25:25,083
Like I always tell everybody,

1232
00:25:25,083 --> 00:25:25,416
no, no, no,

1233
00:25:25,416 --> 00:25:26,708
I would say not your keys,

1234
00:25:26,708 --> 00:25:27,416
not your coins.

1235
00:25:27,416 --> 00:25:28,333
If it's crypto, it's

1236
00:25:28,333 --> 00:25:29,458
not yours at all.

1237
00:25:29,458 --> 00:25:32,458
But but, that's true too.

1238
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,208
But if if you, So, so

1239
00:25:35,208 --> 00:25:36,833
if I ask you straight up,

1240
00:25:36,833 --> 00:25:37,875
how many of these

1241
00:25:37,875 --> 00:25:39,708
what was it, 560 bitcoins.

1242
00:25:39,708 --> 00:25:42,333
How many of those? 540. 540.

1243
00:25:42,333 --> 00:25:43,208
How how

1244
00:25:43,208 --> 00:25:44,750
many of those percentage

1245
00:25:44,750 --> 00:25:45,250
or whatever

1246
00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:47,125
you want to say, like,

1247
00:25:47,125 --> 00:25:47,916
are held

1248
00:25:47,916 --> 00:25:49,291
in actual self-custody

1249
00:25:49,291 --> 00:25:50,500
and how many are outsourced

1250
00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:51,458
to like Coinbase

1251
00:25:51,458 --> 00:25:52,791
or something?

1252
00:25:52,791 --> 00:25:53,625
So we don't have any big

1253
00:25:53,625 --> 00:25:55,208
thing on a Coinbase.

1254
00:25:55,208 --> 00:25:57,333
We would we use BitGo.

1255
00:25:57,333 --> 00:25:58,583
Largely that is what is,

1256
00:25:59,541 --> 00:26:00,625
our asset manager some

1257
00:26:00,625 --> 00:26:01,166
our alpha.

1258
00:26:01,166 --> 00:26:02,083
They deploy through

1259
00:26:02,083 --> 00:26:03,000
different strategies

1260
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,833
on Bitcoin predominantly.

1261
00:26:04,833 --> 00:26:05,708
We do have one

1262
00:26:05,708 --> 00:26:06,625
banking partner

1263
00:26:06,625 --> 00:26:07,208
in Europe

1264
00:26:07,208 --> 00:26:08,166
that we have 100

1265
00:26:08,166 --> 00:26:09,791
Bitcoin deposited at.

1266
00:26:09,791 --> 00:26:11,750
And we use that as collateral

1267
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:12,458
for leverage

1268
00:26:12,458 --> 00:26:13,208
for just ongoing

1269
00:26:13,208 --> 00:26:14,958
operational expenses.

1270
00:26:14,958 --> 00:26:15,666
We get bank

1271
00:26:15,666 --> 00:26:16,416
we get bank loans

1272
00:26:16,416 --> 00:26:17,666
against our bitcoin.

1273
00:26:17,666 --> 00:26:18,291
So naturally

1274
00:26:18,291 --> 00:26:20,250
the collateral is posted.

1275
00:26:20,250 --> 00:26:22,750
And then we have about 150

1276
00:26:22,750 --> 00:26:23,791
or so bitcoin

1277
00:26:23,791 --> 00:26:25,416
in Self-custody.

1278
00:26:25,416 --> 00:26:26,041
So then we have a

1279
00:26:26,041 --> 00:26:27,583
mechanism of

1280
00:26:27,583 --> 00:26:28,791
about 25

1281
00:26:28,791 --> 00:26:30,875
ish percent, 20, 25%.

1282
00:26:30,875 --> 00:26:31,666
Okay.

1283
00:26:31,666 --> 00:26:33,541
Okay. Interesting.

1284
00:26:33,541 --> 00:26:34,166
Yeah.

1285
00:26:34,166 --> 00:26:36,000
Like I said, we

1286
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:36,833
we put a good amount

1287
00:26:36,833 --> 00:26:39,000
of our bitcoin to work.

1288
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,375
I mean, these are Bitcoin

1289
00:26:40,375 --> 00:26:41,458
denominated funds.

1290
00:26:41,458 --> 00:26:42,458
Therefore they capture

1291
00:26:42,458 --> 00:26:44,166
all of the beta of bitcoin

1292
00:26:44,166 --> 00:26:45,458
relative to fiat.

1293
00:26:45,458 --> 00:26:46,666
But they earn bitcoin

1294
00:26:46,666 --> 00:26:48,000
on bitcoin in the strategy.

1295
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,041
So we always want to

1296
00:26:50,041 --> 00:26:51,375
import bitcoin right.

1297
00:26:51,375 --> 00:26:52,000
And then the other

1298
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:52,666
is leverage

1299
00:26:52,666 --> 00:26:54,541
we use for operations.

1300
00:26:54,541 --> 00:26:55,625
So again

1301
00:26:55,625 --> 00:26:56,750
putting Bitcoin to work

1302
00:26:56,750 --> 00:26:58,625
as an actual treasury asset

1303
00:26:58,625 --> 00:26:59,333
rather than what

1304
00:26:59,333 --> 00:27:00,000
Saylor's doing,

1305
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:00,916
which is just trying to buy

1306
00:27:00,916 --> 00:27:01,625
as much Bitcoin

1307
00:27:01,625 --> 00:27:02,500
as humanly possible

1308
00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:04,166
and let it sit at Coinbase.

1309
00:27:04,166 --> 00:27:05,250
So let me ask you

1310
00:27:05,250 --> 00:27:06,875
a personal question. Sure.

1311
00:27:06,875 --> 00:27:07,375
If you

1312
00:27:07,375 --> 00:27:08,041
if you had

1313
00:27:08,041 --> 00:27:09,333
insider information

1314
00:27:09,333 --> 00:27:10,625
to some new innovation

1315
00:27:10,625 --> 00:27:12,083
on Ethereum

1316
00:27:12,083 --> 00:27:13,208
and you knew that

1317
00:27:13,208 --> 00:27:14,666
Ethereum was going to go up

1318
00:27:14,666 --> 00:27:16,000
next week,

1319
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,833
would you sell Bitcoin

1320
00:27:17,833 --> 00:27:18,625
to buy US area

1321
00:27:18,625 --> 00:27:19,583
and buy Bitcoin back

1322
00:27:19,583 --> 00:27:20,166
after that

1323
00:27:20,166 --> 00:27:22,208
like without knowledge?

1324
00:27:22,208 --> 00:27:22,708
Absolutely.

1325
00:27:22,708 --> 00:27:23,791
So we don't have a theorem

1326
00:27:23,791 --> 00:27:24,375
or exposure

1327
00:27:24,375 --> 00:27:25,541
to any other

1328
00:27:25,541 --> 00:27:26,583
crypto assets

1329
00:27:26,583 --> 00:27:27,291
or tokens

1330
00:27:27,291 --> 00:27:28,500
on our balance sheet.

1331
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:29,916
There's a couple legacy

1332
00:27:29,916 --> 00:27:30,875
token investments

1333
00:27:30,875 --> 00:27:32,125
that are on our balance sheet

1334
00:27:32,125 --> 00:27:34,041
for many, many years ago.

1335
00:27:34,041 --> 00:27:34,708
What? We haven't.

1336
00:27:35,708 --> 00:27:36,833
Oh, God.

1337
00:27:36,833 --> 00:27:38,000
I think we the company.

1338
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:38,916
Before I stepped in,

1339
00:27:38,916 --> 00:27:40,750
they invested in Leo.

1340
00:27:40,750 --> 00:27:43,750
It invested in real?

1341
00:27:43,958 --> 00:27:44,750
Yeah.

1342
00:27:44,750 --> 00:27:45,500
Remember owner said

1343
00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:47,250
Leo from, Bitfinex.

1344
00:27:47,250 --> 00:27:47,833
God knows

1345
00:27:47,833 --> 00:27:49,625
how long ago that was.

1346
00:27:49,625 --> 00:27:50,708
Holy shit.

1347
00:27:50,708 --> 00:27:50,958
Yeah.

1348
00:27:50,958 --> 00:27:51,500
And you,

1349
00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:52,833
you said Mike Novogratz.

1350
00:27:52,833 --> 00:27:54,458
I thought that was like,

1351
00:27:54,458 --> 00:27:56,291
the Cretaceous period to,

1352
00:27:56,291 --> 00:27:56,583
you know.

1353
00:27:56,583 --> 00:27:57,708
Well, it wasn't

1354
00:27:57,708 --> 00:27:58,750
he the guy you tattooed?

1355
00:27:58,750 --> 00:27:59,583
Lou nine.

1356
00:27:59,583 --> 00:28:00,125
His. Yeah. Yeah.

1357
00:28:00,125 --> 00:28:01,208
Yep. Is that. Yeah.

1358
00:28:01,208 --> 00:28:04,000
That's that tattoo, I think.

1359
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:04,625
And at least

1360
00:28:04,625 --> 00:28:05,375
he says that he wears

1361
00:28:05,375 --> 00:28:06,958
it as a reminder for mistakes

1362
00:28:06,958 --> 00:28:09,833
he's made before. Right?

1363
00:28:09,833 --> 00:28:10,208
He's he's

1364
00:28:10,208 --> 00:28:11,375
a great guy, though.

1365
00:28:11,375 --> 00:28:11,666
But, yeah,

1366
00:28:11,666 --> 00:28:12,541
I think he still actually

1367
00:28:12,541 --> 00:28:14,250
has that Luna tattoo.

1368
00:28:14,250 --> 00:28:15,625
Yeah,

1369
00:28:15,625 --> 00:28:16,666
there were a handful of.

1370
00:28:16,666 --> 00:28:16,916
Yeah.

1371
00:28:16,916 --> 00:28:18,458
And then, like, for,

1372
00:28:18,458 --> 00:28:21,000
like, during DeFi summer,

1373
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:21,750
we invested

1374
00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:22,458
in a couple of things

1375
00:28:22,458 --> 00:28:23,583
that were just going on here

1376
00:28:23,583 --> 00:28:23,958
and there.

1377
00:28:23,958 --> 00:28:24,333
We ended up

1378
00:28:24,333 --> 00:28:25,458
turning like 100 K

1379
00:28:25,458 --> 00:28:26,625
into like 3 million

1380
00:28:26,625 --> 00:28:27,041
or something,

1381
00:28:27,041 --> 00:28:28,791
but we decided to liquidate

1382
00:28:28,791 --> 00:28:29,666
all those positions

1383
00:28:29,666 --> 00:28:30,291
because frankly,

1384
00:28:30,291 --> 00:28:31,875
we just decided DeFi summer.

1385
00:28:31,875 --> 00:28:32,500
Okay, great.

1386
00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:33,583
While we were able

1387
00:28:33,583 --> 00:28:34,500
to kind of

1388
00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:35,500
harvest those gains

1389
00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:36,541
and convert them to Bitcoin,

1390
00:28:36,541 --> 00:28:38,250
but it's not something for us

1391
00:28:38,250 --> 00:28:39,541
we would rather be deploying

1392
00:28:39,541 --> 00:28:40,583
to managers,

1393
00:28:40,583 --> 00:28:41,291
allow them

1394
00:28:41,291 --> 00:28:42,458
to professionally manage

1395
00:28:42,458 --> 00:28:43,083
assets

1396
00:28:43,083 --> 00:28:44,833
from our balance sheet.

1397
00:28:44,833 --> 00:28:45,458
The only crypto

1398
00:28:45,458 --> 00:28:46,416
that we touch anymore

1399
00:28:46,416 --> 00:28:48,583
is either a Bitcoin

1400
00:28:48,583 --> 00:28:50,458
or because it is a stablecoin

1401
00:28:50,458 --> 00:28:51,000
and it's the most

1402
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:51,875
widely accepted

1403
00:28:51,875 --> 00:28:54,250
stablecoin tether. Naturally.

1404
00:28:54,250 --> 00:28:55,250
All right.

1405
00:28:55,250 --> 00:28:56,291
Yeah, that's

1406
00:28:56,291 --> 00:28:58,333
that's when within

1407
00:28:58,333 --> 00:28:59,666
my acceptance,

1408
00:29:00,875 --> 00:29:02,208
frames or whatever.

1409
00:29:02,208 --> 00:29:03,125
And yeah.

1410
00:29:03,125 --> 00:29:04,416
So sorry for being so,

1411
00:29:04,416 --> 00:29:05,583
so attacking on this

1412
00:29:05,583 --> 00:29:06,500
but but it's a

1413
00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:07,041
no please

1414
00:29:07,041 --> 00:29:08,333
I love it to to kill.

1415
00:29:08,333 --> 00:29:09,583
Look at the sheer

1416
00:29:09,583 --> 00:29:10,291
coin narrative.

1417
00:29:10,291 --> 00:29:12,875
So I'm just making sure here.

1418
00:29:12,875 --> 00:29:13,083
Yeah.

1419
00:29:13,083 --> 00:29:13,291
Well,

1420
00:29:13,291 --> 00:29:14,041
so here's a narrative

1421
00:29:14,041 --> 00:29:14,791
that I don't even think

1422
00:29:14,791 --> 00:29:17,291
you've, thought to ask, like,

1423
00:29:17,291 --> 00:29:18,750
why should a company,

1424
00:29:18,750 --> 00:29:19,750
why should people buy

1425
00:29:19,750 --> 00:29:20,875
a publicly traded company

1426
00:29:20,875 --> 00:29:21,458
like mine

1427
00:29:21,458 --> 00:29:22,875
even have Bitcoin

1428
00:29:22,875 --> 00:29:23,791
on its balance sheet?

1429
00:29:23,791 --> 00:29:24,750
What real value

1430
00:29:24,750 --> 00:29:25,583
should shareholders

1431
00:29:25,583 --> 00:29:27,333
get from being invested

1432
00:29:27,333 --> 00:29:27,791
in a company

1433
00:29:27,791 --> 00:29:28,583
that has Bitcoin?

1434
00:29:28,583 --> 00:29:29,458
And my answer to

1435
00:29:29,458 --> 00:29:31,625
this is always you should.

1436
00:29:31,625 --> 00:29:32,166
If you want

1437
00:29:32,166 --> 00:29:33,916
exposure to Bitcoin,

1438
00:29:33,916 --> 00:29:35,000
you shouldn't be investing

1439
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,250
in publicly traded companies

1440
00:29:36,250 --> 00:29:38,041
or even Etps or ETFs

1441
00:29:38,041 --> 00:29:39,333
to get that direct exposure

1442
00:29:39,333 --> 00:29:40,208
to Bitcoin.

1443
00:29:40,208 --> 00:29:41,250
Me personally,

1444
00:29:41,250 --> 00:29:42,333
all of my bitcoin

1445
00:29:42,333 --> 00:29:43,125
not tomorrow's

1446
00:29:43,125 --> 00:29:44,458
but mine personal

1447
00:29:44,458 --> 00:29:45,750
is private keys,

1448
00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:47,291
cold wallets, private keys.

1449
00:29:47,291 --> 00:29:49,291
I have a whole system set up.

1450
00:29:49,291 --> 00:29:50,333
Even the wills

1451
00:29:50,333 --> 00:29:51,708
and the trusts and everything

1452
00:29:51,708 --> 00:29:52,958
where elements

1453
00:29:52,958 --> 00:29:54,291
of the private key or,

1454
00:29:55,333 --> 00:29:56,541
words will turn over

1455
00:29:56,541 --> 00:29:57,541
to certain individuals.

1456
00:29:57,541 --> 00:29:58,166
I trust that

1457
00:29:58,166 --> 00:29:58,833
they don't even know

1458
00:29:58,833 --> 00:29:59,208
that they're going

1459
00:29:59,208 --> 00:30:00,125
to be getting those words

1460
00:30:00,125 --> 00:30:00,708
in the future,

1461
00:30:00,708 --> 00:30:01,750
just because

1462
00:30:01,750 --> 00:30:02,458
I don't necessarily

1463
00:30:02,458 --> 00:30:03,041
trust my wife

1464
00:30:03,041 --> 00:30:03,708
to screw up

1465
00:30:03,708 --> 00:30:04,791
accessing that Bitcoin

1466
00:30:04,791 --> 00:30:06,458
at some point.

1467
00:30:06,458 --> 00:30:09,250
So okay, I have to

1468
00:30:09,250 --> 00:30:10,791
I have to sacrifice elements

1469
00:30:10,791 --> 00:30:12,791
of my own Bitcoin security.

1470
00:30:12,791 --> 00:30:13,750
So God forbid

1471
00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:14,166
if I get hit

1472
00:30:14,166 --> 00:30:15,583
by a bus later today,

1473
00:30:15,583 --> 00:30:16,416
I know my wife

1474
00:30:16,416 --> 00:30:17,125
will be entrusted

1475
00:30:17,125 --> 00:30:19,583
with that Bitcoin.

1476
00:30:19,583 --> 00:30:20,125
I don't have

1477
00:30:20,125 --> 00:30:21,000
any of those problem

1478
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,000
because I lost.

1479
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,041
I lost all my because

1480
00:30:23,041 --> 00:30:24,416
in a tragic boating accident.

1481
00:30:24,416 --> 00:30:25,541
Oh, I was going to say,

1482
00:30:25,541 --> 00:30:26,416
actually, I should be.

1483
00:30:26,416 --> 00:30:27,666
I should be telling the IRS

1484
00:30:27,666 --> 00:30:29,458
this, I take that back. It's.

1485
00:30:29,458 --> 00:30:30,416
I had a horrible

1486
00:30:30,416 --> 00:30:31,083
boating accident.

1487
00:30:31,083 --> 00:30:31,500
This is what

1488
00:30:31,500 --> 00:30:32,250
you would have done

1489
00:30:32,250 --> 00:30:33,875
if it had you still had them.

1490
00:30:33,875 --> 00:30:34,416
Yes, yes.

1491
00:30:34,416 --> 00:30:35,750
It's somewhere on the off

1492
00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:36,625
the coast of,

1493
00:30:36,625 --> 00:30:37,958
Gozo, if I remember

1494
00:30:37,958 --> 00:30:38,708
correctly,

1495
00:30:38,708 --> 00:30:39,458
we've never been able

1496
00:30:39,458 --> 00:30:41,166
to find the, Bitcoin.

1497
00:30:41,166 --> 00:30:42,416
Yeah. No.

1498
00:30:42,416 --> 00:30:43,666
So anyways, like,

1499
00:30:43,666 --> 00:30:44,375
I really shouldn't

1500
00:30:44,375 --> 00:30:45,625
be saying that because, hey,

1501
00:30:45,625 --> 00:30:46,833
I run a publicly traded

1502
00:30:46,833 --> 00:30:47,833
company heavily

1503
00:30:47,833 --> 00:30:49,500
investing in Bitcoin.

1504
00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:50,750
And I also created

1505
00:30:50,750 --> 00:30:52,208
some of the first etps,

1506
00:30:52,208 --> 00:30:53,208
the European version

1507
00:30:53,208 --> 00:30:55,750
of a Bitcoin ETF in Europe.

1508
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:57,000
But see, for me

1509
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,458
it's all about what

1510
00:30:58,458 --> 00:30:59,541
maybe the type

1511
00:30:59,541 --> 00:31:00,791
of user experience

1512
00:31:00,791 --> 00:31:01,791
investors want.

1513
00:31:01,791 --> 00:31:02,916
Because unfortunately,

1514
00:31:02,916 --> 00:31:03,875
the reality is, is

1515
00:31:03,875 --> 00:31:04,416
there's a lot of

1516
00:31:04,416 --> 00:31:06,333
people out there that don't

1517
00:31:06,333 --> 00:31:08,166
trust themselves to

1518
00:31:09,375 --> 00:31:10,500
go out,

1519
00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:11,291
have a Bitcoin

1520
00:31:11,291 --> 00:31:12,208
cold storage wallet,

1521
00:31:12,208 --> 00:31:13,333
remember their seed phrase

1522
00:31:13,333 --> 00:31:15,125
or remember their words,

1523
00:31:15,125 --> 00:31:16,333
remember their private key.

1524
00:31:16,333 --> 00:31:18,583
And then,

1525
00:31:18,583 --> 00:31:19,791
you can go a step further

1526
00:31:19,791 --> 00:31:20,958
in operating your own node.

1527
00:31:20,958 --> 00:31:22,166
I mean, you're not holding

1528
00:31:22,166 --> 00:31:23,208
Bitcoin the right way

1529
00:31:23,208 --> 00:31:24,083
if you're not operating

1530
00:31:24,083 --> 00:31:24,666
your own node.

1531
00:31:24,666 --> 00:31:26,250
That's just the essence,

1532
00:31:26,250 --> 00:31:27,666
the truth of it. Right?

1533
00:31:27,666 --> 00:31:29,625
So the reality is, is that

1534
00:31:29,625 --> 00:31:31,041
if we want Bitcoin adoption,

1535
00:31:31,041 --> 00:31:32,541
the way that I think elements

1536
00:31:32,541 --> 00:31:33,375
of the community want

1537
00:31:33,375 --> 00:31:34,791
Bitcoin adoption,

1538
00:31:34,791 --> 00:31:35,916
ETFs and Https

1539
00:31:35,916 --> 00:31:36,375
and publicly

1540
00:31:36,375 --> 00:31:37,083
traded companies

1541
00:31:37,083 --> 00:31:38,250
holding bitcoin

1542
00:31:38,250 --> 00:31:38,791
are just an

1543
00:31:38,791 --> 00:31:41,625
inevitability of that. Yeah.

1544
00:31:41,625 --> 00:31:44,125
But that okay to their own.

1545
00:31:44,125 --> 00:31:45,166
If they want exposure

1546
00:31:45,166 --> 00:31:45,708
that way

1547
00:31:45,708 --> 00:31:47,166
I don't recommend it.

1548
00:31:47,166 --> 00:31:47,875
But hey if you

1549
00:31:47,875 --> 00:31:48,541
want to trust

1550
00:31:48,541 --> 00:31:49,458
a professional asset

1551
00:31:49,458 --> 00:31:50,791
manager like Deutsche Digital

1552
00:31:50,791 --> 00:31:52,083
or trust a public company

1553
00:31:52,083 --> 00:31:53,250
like MicroStrategy

1554
00:31:53,250 --> 00:31:54,333
or some Aura Asset Group,

1555
00:31:54,333 --> 00:31:56,166
please, by all means.

1556
00:31:56,166 --> 00:31:56,708
Our shares are

1557
00:31:56,708 --> 00:31:57,541
traded in Germany.

1558
00:31:59,166 --> 00:31:59,500
Yeah.

1559
00:31:59,500 --> 00:31:59,791
So.

1560
00:31:59,791 --> 00:32:01,416
So that,

1561
00:32:01,416 --> 00:32:01,791
let me

1562
00:32:01,791 --> 00:32:02,083
give you

1563
00:32:02,083 --> 00:32:03,250
my perspective on that

1564
00:32:03,250 --> 00:32:04,291
and then and see

1565
00:32:04,291 --> 00:32:05,333
what you think about it

1566
00:32:05,333 --> 00:32:05,875
because like,

1567
00:32:05,875 --> 00:32:07,375
I'm interested if,

1568
00:32:07,375 --> 00:32:08,291
if like you agree

1569
00:32:08,291 --> 00:32:09,208
with the framing.

1570
00:32:09,208 --> 00:32:09,625
So.

1571
00:32:09,625 --> 00:32:10,708
Oh the ETFs are absolutely

1572
00:32:10,708 --> 00:32:13,000
an attack vector

1573
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:13,750
that I already know

1574
00:32:13,750 --> 00:32:14,500
where you go.

1575
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:15,416
No no no look

1576
00:32:15,416 --> 00:32:16,750
I'm not going down that road.

1577
00:32:16,750 --> 00:32:18,250
So so there okay.

1578
00:32:18,250 --> 00:32:19,458
So the road I'm going down

1579
00:32:19,458 --> 00:32:20,375
is like yes,

1580
00:32:20,375 --> 00:32:21,458
I do agree with you.

1581
00:32:21,458 --> 00:32:22,291
I think these things

1582
00:32:22,291 --> 00:32:23,291
are inevitable,

1583
00:32:23,291 --> 00:32:24,875
especially like

1584
00:32:24,875 --> 00:32:25,833
in the transition

1585
00:32:25,833 --> 00:32:26,916
period for sure.

1586
00:32:26,916 --> 00:32:27,625
And I don't know

1587
00:32:27,625 --> 00:32:28,833
if we ever get to like

1588
00:32:28,833 --> 00:32:30,083
you ask me before what

1589
00:32:30,083 --> 00:32:31,000
how I define

1590
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,166
hyperbolic ionization.

1591
00:32:32,166 --> 00:32:33,125
And I think that's

1592
00:32:33,125 --> 00:32:34,666
a super tricky question.

1593
00:32:34,666 --> 00:32:35,791
I think most people get it

1594
00:32:35,791 --> 00:32:37,083
wrong. First and foremost.

1595
00:32:37,083 --> 00:32:38,291
I think hyper bitcoin ization

1596
00:32:38,291 --> 00:32:39,750
is a personal thing,

1597
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:40,708
and I

1598
00:32:40,708 --> 00:32:41,458
the thing is,

1599
00:32:41,458 --> 00:32:42,500
I don't see an end

1600
00:32:42,500 --> 00:32:43,666
point to it

1601
00:32:43,666 --> 00:32:45,458
because there's always

1602
00:32:45,458 --> 00:32:46,541
one more thing

1603
00:32:46,541 --> 00:32:47,250
that could come

1604
00:32:47,250 --> 00:32:48,541
into the Bitcoin economy.

1605
00:32:48,541 --> 00:32:50,500
Even if all fiat is dead,

1606
00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:51,208
there's always

1607
00:32:51,208 --> 00:32:52,416
people are going to

1608
00:32:52,416 --> 00:32:54,250
the economy can still grow.

1609
00:32:54,250 --> 00:32:55,583
They can still be like the

1610
00:32:55,583 --> 00:32:56,500
I don't see an end

1611
00:32:56,500 --> 00:32:57,375
point to it.

1612
00:32:57,375 --> 00:32:59,000
Also the

1613
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,250
holding your own keys

1614
00:33:00,250 --> 00:33:02,916
and doing Bitcoin properly is

1615
00:33:02,916 --> 00:33:04,041
by far

1616
00:33:04,041 --> 00:33:06,000
like it's absolutely not

1617
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,333
risk free.

1618
00:33:07,333 --> 00:33:09,125
So if you're a clever person,

1619
00:33:09,125 --> 00:33:10,125
you need some type

1620
00:33:10,125 --> 00:33:11,291
of diversification.

1621
00:33:11,291 --> 00:33:11,916
It's not good

1622
00:33:11,916 --> 00:33:12,541
to have all

1623
00:33:12,541 --> 00:33:13,500
eggs in one basket.

1624
00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:14,000
And by that

1625
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:14,791
I mean

1626
00:33:14,791 --> 00:33:15,708
like yes,

1627
00:33:15,708 --> 00:33:17,041
put as much as you as

1628
00:33:17,041 --> 00:33:18,958
you can stomach into Bitcoin,

1629
00:33:18,958 --> 00:33:20,166
but you should probably have

1630
00:33:20,166 --> 00:33:21,458
some kind of other lifeline

1631
00:33:21,458 --> 00:33:22,000
because what are

1632
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:22,583
you going to do

1633
00:33:22,583 --> 00:33:24,000
if like, all of a sudden

1634
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:24,833
there are zeros

1635
00:33:24,833 --> 00:33:25,750
all over your computer

1636
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:26,500
screen, like

1637
00:33:26,500 --> 00:33:28,250
you are a risk to yourself,

1638
00:33:28,250 --> 00:33:29,250
you can bump your head

1639
00:33:29,250 --> 00:33:31,250
and lose your keys like that.

1640
00:33:31,250 --> 00:33:32,750
It's not entirely risk free.

1641
00:33:32,750 --> 00:33:33,416
So yes,

1642
00:33:33,416 --> 00:33:34,333
I do agree

1643
00:33:34,333 --> 00:33:35,375
that some

1644
00:33:35,375 --> 00:33:37,416
some type of diversification

1645
00:33:37,416 --> 00:33:39,166
and but the thing is

1646
00:33:39,166 --> 00:33:39,791
what what,

1647
00:33:41,916 --> 00:33:43,750
so so so these instruments

1648
00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:45,166
and these half measures,

1649
00:33:45,166 --> 00:33:45,958
if you might call them

1650
00:33:45,958 --> 00:33:47,666
that are absolutely

1651
00:33:47,666 --> 00:33:48,541
a step on the way.

1652
00:33:48,541 --> 00:33:49,750
And they are a good option

1653
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:50,583
for the boomer

1654
00:33:50,583 --> 00:33:51,000
who doesn't

1655
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,125
trust his own skills

1656
00:33:52,125 --> 00:33:53,500
with a computer or whatever.

1657
00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:55,250
Like they're very much,

1658
00:33:55,250 --> 00:33:56,375
tools for them.

1659
00:33:56,375 --> 00:33:57,041
And I like it

1660
00:33:57,041 --> 00:33:57,708
because at

1661
00:33:57,708 --> 00:33:58,625
the end of the day,

1662
00:33:58,625 --> 00:34:00,208
all roads lead to Bitcoin.

1663
00:34:00,208 --> 00:34:00,666
Like this

1664
00:34:00,666 --> 00:34:01,833
does lead to Bitcoin

1665
00:34:01,833 --> 00:34:03,125
getting more powerful.

1666
00:34:03,125 --> 00:34:05,041
What I don't like is

1667
00:34:05,041 --> 00:34:05,791
the, the,

1668
00:34:05,791 --> 00:34:06,875
the road bumps

1669
00:34:06,875 --> 00:34:08,250
that can be put in the way.

1670
00:34:08,250 --> 00:34:09,791
Like if one of these pension

1671
00:34:09,791 --> 00:34:10,541
funds starts

1672
00:34:10,541 --> 00:34:11,750
investing in Bitcoin

1673
00:34:11,750 --> 00:34:13,458
and the crypto,

1674
00:34:13,458 --> 00:34:14,708
for instance,

1675
00:34:14,708 --> 00:34:16,416
or or would like

1676
00:34:16,416 --> 00:34:17,250
when people issue

1677
00:34:17,250 --> 00:34:19,375
NFTs on, on Bitcoin or any,

1678
00:34:19,375 --> 00:34:20,416
any other

1679
00:34:20,416 --> 00:34:21,583
bullshit use case

1680
00:34:21,583 --> 00:34:22,708
than the monetary use case

1681
00:34:22,708 --> 00:34:23,208
and the date

1682
00:34:23,208 --> 00:34:25,125
like dilute stuff,

1683
00:34:25,125 --> 00:34:26,375
dilute Bitcoin's

1684
00:34:26,375 --> 00:34:29,125
pure value as pure money

1685
00:34:29,125 --> 00:34:30,541
because I believe that,

1686
00:34:30,541 --> 00:34:33,458
just as houses or real estate

1687
00:34:33,458 --> 00:34:35,083
become a worse form

1688
00:34:35,083 --> 00:34:37,541
of housing by being money

1689
00:34:37,541 --> 00:34:38,833
so that the billionaire buys

1690
00:34:38,833 --> 00:34:40,750
all those beachfront

1691
00:34:40,750 --> 00:34:42,208
properties,

1692
00:34:42,208 --> 00:34:43,166
all the beachfront

1693
00:34:43,166 --> 00:34:44,375
property and, and,

1694
00:34:45,416 --> 00:34:46,208
every,

1695
00:34:46,208 --> 00:34:46,791
every middle

1696
00:34:46,791 --> 00:34:49,000
class person gets,

1697
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:49,750
out, compete

1698
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:50,333
in, on the market

1699
00:34:50,333 --> 00:34:51,583
and can't afford a house

1700
00:34:51,583 --> 00:34:52,291
next to the sea.

1701
00:34:52,291 --> 00:34:53,541
So every house is empty.

1702
00:34:53,541 --> 00:34:54,875
So that makes real estate

1703
00:34:54,875 --> 00:34:57,000
worse as what it's intended

1704
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:57,750
use case.

1705
00:34:57,750 --> 00:34:59,166
The same is true for money.

1706
00:34:59,166 --> 00:35:00,291
Oh, you should go to Dubai.

1707
00:35:00,291 --> 00:35:01,625
That's in Dubai.

1708
00:35:01,625 --> 00:35:01,750
Yeah.

1709
00:35:01,750 --> 00:35:02,416
It's like I know

1710
00:35:02,416 --> 00:35:03,833
90% of all the houses

1711
00:35:03,833 --> 00:35:05,208
and everything is just empty.

1712
00:35:05,208 --> 00:35:06,000
But Dubai.

1713
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:06,916
Dubai might have

1714
00:35:06,916 --> 00:35:08,166
a beautiful future

1715
00:35:08,166 --> 00:35:09,291
if they hope for Bitcoin.

1716
00:35:09,291 --> 00:35:09,625
Nice.

1717
00:35:09,625 --> 00:35:11,916
Because then the money works.

1718
00:35:11,916 --> 00:35:13,291
And if.

1719
00:35:13,291 --> 00:35:14,166
But the same is true

1720
00:35:14,166 --> 00:35:15,166
for money. That's my point.

1721
00:35:15,166 --> 00:35:16,291
Like if if money is

1722
00:35:16,291 --> 00:35:16,958
being used

1723
00:35:16,958 --> 00:35:18,416
for arbitrary data

1724
00:35:18,416 --> 00:35:20,750
storage and Jpeg creation,

1725
00:35:20,750 --> 00:35:23,083
then then it's by definition

1726
00:35:23,083 --> 00:35:23,916
becomes a worse

1727
00:35:23,916 --> 00:35:25,041
form of money.

1728
00:35:25,041 --> 00:35:26,291
So like,

1729
00:35:26,291 --> 00:35:27,333
the, the

1730
00:35:27,333 --> 00:35:28,000
framework to

1731
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:28,500
have in your head

1732
00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:29,791
the Satoshi is special

1733
00:35:29,791 --> 00:35:31,208
because it's the purest money

1734
00:35:31,208 --> 00:35:32,041
we have.

1735
00:35:32,041 --> 00:35:32,791
And

1736
00:35:32,791 --> 00:35:34,333
and because it's a very,

1737
00:35:34,333 --> 00:35:36,125
very personal thing.

1738
00:35:36,125 --> 00:35:37,791
The Satoshis don't even exist

1739
00:35:37,791 --> 00:35:39,000
except for in people's

1740
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:39,916
had the ability

1741
00:35:39,916 --> 00:35:41,166
to move them exists,

1742
00:35:41,166 --> 00:35:41,583
and that's

1743
00:35:41,583 --> 00:35:42,833
all in people's heads.

1744
00:35:42,833 --> 00:35:43,833
Nowhere else.

1745
00:35:43,833 --> 00:35:44,166
So.

1746
00:35:44,166 --> 00:35:44,500
So like,

1747
00:35:44,500 --> 00:35:45,000
this is what

1748
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:45,750
makes the Satoshi

1749
00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:47,666
absolutely unique

1750
00:35:47,666 --> 00:35:48,375
in comparison

1751
00:35:48,375 --> 00:35:49,583
to anything else.

1752
00:35:49,583 --> 00:35:50,833
And, so,

1753
00:35:50,833 --> 00:35:52,958
so I'd say all roads

1754
00:35:52,958 --> 00:35:54,125
lead to Bitcoin,

1755
00:35:54,125 --> 00:35:55,333
but you can put up

1756
00:35:55,333 --> 00:35:56,583
roadblocks on the way,

1757
00:35:56,583 --> 00:35:57,166
which makes

1758
00:35:57,166 --> 00:35:58,625
that process slower.

1759
00:35:58,625 --> 00:35:59,291
For instance,

1760
00:35:59,291 --> 00:36:01,291
if people fall for shit coins

1761
00:36:01,291 --> 00:36:03,333
and get get burned,

1762
00:36:03,333 --> 00:36:04,291
it's very unlikely

1763
00:36:04,291 --> 00:36:05,041
that they get back

1764
00:36:05,041 --> 00:36:06,666
to Bitcoin directly

1765
00:36:06,666 --> 00:36:07,166
after that.

1766
00:36:07,166 --> 00:36:07,750
It'll take them

1767
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:08,708
another ten years

1768
00:36:08,708 --> 00:36:09,458
before they.

1769
00:36:09,458 --> 00:36:10,833
So so I don't think that

1770
00:36:10,833 --> 00:36:11,208
that it's

1771
00:36:11,208 --> 00:36:12,541
accelerating anything

1772
00:36:12,541 --> 00:36:14,000
except people thinking

1773
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,166
that Bitcoin is a scam

1774
00:36:15,166 --> 00:36:16,666
when it actually isn't.

1775
00:36:16,666 --> 00:36:17,666
So yeah.

1776
00:36:17,666 --> 00:36:18,375
And I don't think

1777
00:36:18,375 --> 00:36:19,666
that's primarily

1778
00:36:19,666 --> 00:36:20,416
but that's like

1779
00:36:20,416 --> 00:36:21,125
primarily

1780
00:36:21,125 --> 00:36:22,500
where Bitcoin has

1781
00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:24,375
distinguished itself relative

1782
00:36:24,375 --> 00:36:25,416
to every other

1783
00:36:25,416 --> 00:36:26,750
a crypto asset

1784
00:36:26,750 --> 00:36:28,291
in the entire space.

1785
00:36:28,291 --> 00:36:29,791
Because Bitcoin is

1786
00:36:29,791 --> 00:36:30,666
at its core,

1787
00:36:30,666 --> 00:36:31,458
the most perfect

1788
00:36:31,458 --> 00:36:32,458
form of money

1789
00:36:32,458 --> 00:36:33,291
humanity has ever

1790
00:36:33,291 --> 00:36:34,458
conceived of.

1791
00:36:34,458 --> 00:36:35,083
You can't say that

1792
00:36:35,083 --> 00:36:35,791
about Ethereum.

1793
00:36:35,791 --> 00:36:36,458
You can't say that

1794
00:36:36,458 --> 00:36:37,333
about any of the other

1795
00:36:37,333 --> 00:36:38,083
layer ones.

1796
00:36:38,083 --> 00:36:38,625
You can't say

1797
00:36:38,625 --> 00:36:39,916
that about tether,

1798
00:36:39,916 --> 00:36:41,500
and you certainly cannot say

1799
00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:43,125
that about any of the ICOs

1800
00:36:43,125 --> 00:36:43,958
or NFTs

1801
00:36:43,958 --> 00:36:44,375
or anything

1802
00:36:44,375 --> 00:36:45,666
that has been tokenized

1803
00:36:45,666 --> 00:36:46,333
on any of those

1804
00:36:46,333 --> 00:36:47,791
other blockchains. You can.

1805
00:36:47,791 --> 00:36:49,375
There is no second best.

1806
00:36:49,375 --> 00:36:49,833
Exactly.

1807
00:36:49,833 --> 00:36:50,750
There is no second best

1808
00:36:50,750 --> 00:36:52,083
when it comes to money.

1809
00:36:52,083 --> 00:36:52,750
Hello there.

1810
00:36:52,750 --> 00:36:53,916
I'm Kurt Swann home,

1811
00:36:53,916 --> 00:36:54,375
and I'm

1812
00:36:54,375 --> 00:36:55,458
an International village

1813
00:36:55,458 --> 00:36:56,958
idiot and author.

1814
00:36:56,958 --> 00:36:58,458
These are my books

1815
00:36:58,458 --> 00:36:59,625
on Bitcoin.

1816
00:36:59,625 --> 00:37:00,458
Bitcoin sovereignty

1817
00:37:00,458 --> 00:37:01,750
through mathematics.

1818
00:37:01,750 --> 00:37:02,875
Bitcoin independence

1819
00:37:02,875 --> 00:37:04,458
reimagined. Bitcoin.

1820
00:37:04,458 --> 00:37:05,291
Everything divided

1821
00:37:05,291 --> 00:37:06,416
by 21 million.

1822
00:37:06,416 --> 00:37:07,375
I'm Bitcoin

1823
00:37:07,375 --> 00:37:08,833
the inverse of clown world.

1824
00:37:08,833 --> 00:37:10,750
These are now re-edited,

1825
00:37:10,750 --> 00:37:12,708
redesigned and available

1826
00:37:12,708 --> 00:37:13,333
from the Bitcoin

1827
00:37:13,333 --> 00:37:14,083
Infinity store.

1828
00:37:14,083 --> 00:37:15,250
I mean look at that.

1829
00:37:15,250 --> 00:37:16,708
Look at how your collection

1830
00:37:16,708 --> 00:37:18,208
could look.

1831
00:37:18,208 --> 00:37:19,666
Oh. It's upside down.

1832
00:37:19,666 --> 00:37:21,041
But there they are anyway.

1833
00:37:21,041 --> 00:37:22,083
But more than that,

1834
00:37:22,083 --> 00:37:23,041
all of these books

1835
00:37:23,041 --> 00:37:24,791
will be released for free.

1836
00:37:24,791 --> 00:37:26,083
Chapter by chapter, week

1837
00:37:26,083 --> 00:37:27,541
by week on Noster.

1838
00:37:27,541 --> 00:37:29,583
Also accompanied by a video

1839
00:37:29,583 --> 00:37:30,166
that Luke

1840
00:37:30,166 --> 00:37:31,333
and I will make talking

1841
00:37:31,333 --> 00:37:32,875
about the ideas in the book.

1842
00:37:32,875 --> 00:37:33,708
Where we answer

1843
00:37:33,708 --> 00:37:34,916
your questions

1844
00:37:34,916 --> 00:37:36,625
because you can sign up

1845
00:37:36,625 --> 00:37:37,333
for the Bitcoin

1846
00:37:37,333 --> 00:37:38,916
Infinity Academy

1847
00:37:38,916 --> 00:37:40,166
and join courses

1848
00:37:40,166 --> 00:37:40,666
for each

1849
00:37:40,666 --> 00:37:42,000
and every one of the books,

1850
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,208
and talk to us

1851
00:37:43,208 --> 00:37:44,000
every now and then

1852
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,166
and get other perks

1853
00:37:45,166 --> 00:37:45,958
like a free

1854
00:37:45,958 --> 00:37:47,291
set of steak knives.

1855
00:37:47,291 --> 00:37:48,166
So go to the Bitcoin

1856
00:37:48,166 --> 00:37:49,541
Infinity store right now.

1857
00:37:49,541 --> 00:37:50,291
Get the books.

1858
00:37:50,291 --> 00:37:51,625
Sign up for the Academy.

1859
00:37:51,625 --> 00:37:53,250
Now the question is, is

1860
00:37:53,250 --> 00:37:54,375
what are they?

1861
00:37:54,375 --> 00:37:55,083
Because then there's

1862
00:37:55,083 --> 00:37:57,333
other assets, right?

1863
00:37:57,333 --> 00:37:58,041
You have equities.

1864
00:37:58,041 --> 00:37:59,000
That's derivatives.

1865
00:37:59,000 --> 00:37:59,458
Every other

1866
00:37:59,458 --> 00:38:00,375
financial instrument

1867
00:38:00,375 --> 00:38:02,041
that we've ever conceived of.

1868
00:38:02,041 --> 00:38:03,958
Now, is there a world

1869
00:38:03,958 --> 00:38:05,375
where Bitcoin

1870
00:38:05,375 --> 00:38:06,458
as the most perfect

1871
00:38:06,458 --> 00:38:07,666
money ever created

1872
00:38:07,666 --> 00:38:09,000
and these other assets

1873
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,375
coexist?

1874
00:38:10,375 --> 00:38:10,708
Yeah, it's

1875
00:38:10,708 --> 00:38:11,250
kind of the world

1876
00:38:11,250 --> 00:38:12,083
we're living in today.

1877
00:38:12,083 --> 00:38:12,583
It's just that

1878
00:38:12,583 --> 00:38:13,583
these assets,

1879
00:38:13,583 --> 00:38:15,083
except for the bullshit

1880
00:38:15,083 --> 00:38:15,833
crypto assets

1881
00:38:15,833 --> 00:38:16,583
we currently see

1882
00:38:16,583 --> 00:38:18,125
in the world today,

1883
00:38:18,125 --> 00:38:19,166
they're traded on

1884
00:38:19,166 --> 00:38:20,833
capital markets.

1885
00:38:20,833 --> 00:38:22,125
They're highly centralized

1886
00:38:22,125 --> 00:38:22,541
on the New York

1887
00:38:22,541 --> 00:38:24,291
Stock Exchange and other OTC

1888
00:38:24,291 --> 00:38:25,833
desks in private

1889
00:38:25,833 --> 00:38:26,833
equity and venture

1890
00:38:26,833 --> 00:38:29,250
capital, etc.. Right.

1891
00:38:29,250 --> 00:38:31,041
They're in real estate funds.

1892
00:38:31,041 --> 00:38:32,500
Now, the question is, is can

1893
00:38:32,500 --> 00:38:33,916
and should we bring

1894
00:38:33,916 --> 00:38:34,583
those assets

1895
00:38:34,583 --> 00:38:36,208
to the blockchain or can

1896
00:38:36,208 --> 00:38:37,083
and should we

1897
00:38:37,083 --> 00:38:38,041
bring those assets

1898
00:38:38,041 --> 00:38:39,625
to Bitcoin?

1899
00:38:39,625 --> 00:38:41,125
Now the easiest

1900
00:38:41,125 --> 00:38:42,083
and shortest answer

1901
00:38:42,083 --> 00:38:44,333
I think is no.

1902
00:38:44,333 --> 00:38:45,625
Yes.

1903
00:38:45,625 --> 00:38:46,750
Well, for, for, you know.

1904
00:38:46,750 --> 00:38:48,666
Right. For me it's. Yes.

1905
00:38:48,666 --> 00:38:50,083
Because

1906
00:38:50,083 --> 00:38:52,166
creating a global economy

1907
00:38:52,166 --> 00:38:54,625
that trades 24 over seven,

1908
00:38:54,625 --> 00:38:56,125
that allows

1909
00:38:56,125 --> 00:38:56,916
everybody

1910
00:38:56,916 --> 00:38:58,000
in as permissionless

1911
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,666
a manner as possible

1912
00:38:59,666 --> 00:39:00,833
to trade these types

1913
00:39:00,833 --> 00:39:01,583
of assets

1914
00:39:01,583 --> 00:39:03,750
and realize the value capture

1915
00:39:03,750 --> 00:39:04,708
of the appreciation

1916
00:39:04,708 --> 00:39:06,958
of those assets over time.

1917
00:39:06,958 --> 00:39:07,583
Well, I,

1918
00:39:07,583 --> 00:39:09,458
I frankly love that idea.

1919
00:39:09,458 --> 00:39:11,000
Can it happen on other coins?

1920
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,041
Yeah, we've already

1921
00:39:12,041 --> 00:39:12,833
kind of seen

1922
00:39:12,833 --> 00:39:13,041
I mean,

1923
00:39:13,041 --> 00:39:13,458
there's already

1924
00:39:13,458 --> 00:39:14,791
been tokenized funds

1925
00:39:14,791 --> 00:39:16,250
on Ethereum, right.

1926
00:39:17,250 --> 00:39:17,666
You've seen

1927
00:39:17,666 --> 00:39:19,666
tokenized went to shit

1928
00:39:19,666 --> 00:39:20,916
because it was a scam.

1929
00:39:20,916 --> 00:39:22,666
So so I would say no,

1930
00:39:22,666 --> 00:39:23,875
that hasn't really happened.

1931
00:39:23,875 --> 00:39:25,166
That's not necessarily true.

1932
00:39:25,166 --> 00:39:25,958
There's a couple of funds

1933
00:39:25,958 --> 00:39:27,750
I know like KKR

1934
00:39:27,750 --> 00:39:28,708
that is tokenized.

1935
00:39:28,708 --> 00:39:29,250
I think they had

1936
00:39:29,250 --> 00:39:30,000
like what 700.

1937
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,083
But but it was

1938
00:39:31,083 --> 00:39:32,083
but there are winners

1939
00:39:32,083 --> 00:39:33,291
and losers in this.

1940
00:39:33,291 --> 00:39:34,416
There are only winners

1941
00:39:34,416 --> 00:39:35,750
in Bitcoin. That's the point.

1942
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:37,583
You don't have to like

1943
00:39:37,583 --> 00:39:38,916
this is not a zero sum game.

1944
00:39:38,916 --> 00:39:39,750
And this is what people

1945
00:39:39,750 --> 00:39:40,666
get wrong about it.

1946
00:39:40,666 --> 00:39:42,166
And by the way I think the

1947
00:39:42,166 --> 00:39:44,083
I hardly I,

1948
00:39:44,083 --> 00:39:45,416
I have a hard disagree

1949
00:39:45,416 --> 00:39:46,625
on putting anything else

1950
00:39:46,625 --> 00:39:47,333
on bitcoin

1951
00:39:47,333 --> 00:39:48,958
for a very simple reason.

1952
00:39:48,958 --> 00:39:50,041
There are two scarce

1953
00:39:50,041 --> 00:39:51,166
assets in Bitcoin.

1954
00:39:51,166 --> 00:39:52,791
One is the Satoshi itself

1955
00:39:52,791 --> 00:39:54,500
and the other is block space.

1956
00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:55,208
And if you fill

1957
00:39:55,208 --> 00:39:56,083
up block space

1958
00:39:56,083 --> 00:39:57,583
and if you block the utx

1959
00:39:57,583 --> 00:39:58,541
all set

1960
00:39:58,541 --> 00:40:00,333
by putting arbitrary data

1961
00:40:00,333 --> 00:40:00,750
into it

1962
00:40:00,750 --> 00:40:02,458
and making more and more,

1963
00:40:02,458 --> 00:40:04,666
you take those you you,

1964
00:40:04,666 --> 00:40:05,625
what you inevitably

1965
00:40:05,625 --> 00:40:06,208
end up with

1966
00:40:06,208 --> 00:40:08,541
is a higher starting

1967
00:40:08,541 --> 00:40:10,375
cost for firing up that node,

1968
00:40:11,333 --> 00:40:13,250
and what that inevitably

1969
00:40:13,250 --> 00:40:15,125
will lead to is,

1970
00:40:15,125 --> 00:40:17,208
sacrificing decentralization,

1971
00:40:17,208 --> 00:40:18,291
which means Bitcoin

1972
00:40:18,291 --> 00:40:19,375
is just another shit coin,

1973
00:40:19,375 --> 00:40:19,958
and then we're

1974
00:40:19,958 --> 00:40:21,750
all fucking doomed.

1975
00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:22,333
That is the

1976
00:40:22,333 --> 00:40:23,208
inevitable result.

1977
00:40:23,208 --> 00:40:24,541
So there's like interested.

1978
00:40:24,541 --> 00:40:24,791
Yeah.

1979
00:40:24,791 --> 00:40:25,083
So so

1980
00:40:25,083 --> 00:40:26,250
there's an interesting,

1981
00:40:26,250 --> 00:40:28,583
conversation I had recently.

1982
00:40:28,583 --> 00:40:29,666
There's, 1

1983
00:40:29,666 --> 00:40:30,625
or 2 groups out there

1984
00:40:30,625 --> 00:40:31,458
that I've become aware

1985
00:40:31,458 --> 00:40:32,458
of over the last six

1986
00:40:32,458 --> 00:40:33,500
or so months,

1987
00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:34,916
that their entire thesis

1988
00:40:34,916 --> 00:40:35,791
is exactly aligned

1989
00:40:35,791 --> 00:40:36,916
to what you just said, that

1990
00:40:36,916 --> 00:40:37,333
if we do

1991
00:40:37,333 --> 00:40:39,083
start to see tokenization

1992
00:40:39,083 --> 00:40:40,541
on Bitcoin, like

1993
00:40:40,541 --> 00:40:41,375
not just ordinals

1994
00:40:41,375 --> 00:40:41,791
and everything

1995
00:40:41,791 --> 00:40:42,625
we've seen thus far,

1996
00:40:42,625 --> 00:40:44,000
but like we see maybe layer

1997
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,625
twos that build tokenization

1998
00:40:45,625 --> 00:40:46,833
or there's an update

1999
00:40:46,833 --> 00:40:48,125
to the core code

2000
00:40:48,125 --> 00:40:49,375
that these groups

2001
00:40:49,375 --> 00:40:50,666
are already anticipating

2002
00:40:50,666 --> 00:40:51,958
that that could happen.

2003
00:40:51,958 --> 00:40:52,750
And they're building

2004
00:40:52,750 --> 00:40:54,416
futures platforms,

2005
00:40:54,416 --> 00:40:55,458
to purchase,

2006
00:40:55,458 --> 00:40:55,833
the future

2007
00:40:55,833 --> 00:40:57,416
rights to block space

2008
00:40:57,416 --> 00:40:58,791
because the block space

2009
00:40:58,791 --> 00:41:00,625
becomes more scarce

2010
00:41:00,625 --> 00:41:03,125
then the Satoshi is itself.

2011
00:41:03,125 --> 00:41:03,958
I mean, when Bitcoin hits

2012
00:41:03,958 --> 00:41:04,916
$1 million a Bitcoin,

2013
00:41:04,916 --> 00:41:05,958
the Satoshi is worth a penny

2014
00:41:05,958 --> 00:41:06,541
a day.

2015
00:41:06,541 --> 00:41:07,500
Just to clarify

2016
00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:09,291
that the block space

2017
00:41:09,291 --> 00:41:10,750
cannot be scarcer

2018
00:41:10,750 --> 00:41:11,833
than the Satoshi,

2019
00:41:11,833 --> 00:41:13,416
only within a limited time

2020
00:41:13,416 --> 00:41:13,833
frame.

2021
00:41:13,833 --> 00:41:15,625
So per time unit it can,

2022
00:41:15,625 --> 00:41:17,666
but not in an forever mode.

2023
00:41:17,666 --> 00:41:18,208
It cannot.

2024
00:41:18,208 --> 00:41:19,166
It's such.

2025
00:41:19,166 --> 00:41:19,375
Yeah,

2026
00:41:19,375 --> 00:41:20,708
but only within that block

2027
00:41:20,708 --> 00:41:21,958
it can be. Right? Yeah.

2028
00:41:21,958 --> 00:41:22,708
Which basically is

2029
00:41:22,708 --> 00:41:23,500
what they're selling.

2030
00:41:23,500 --> 00:41:25,375
It's a, it's a forward

2031
00:41:25,375 --> 00:41:26,125
or their platform

2032
00:41:26,125 --> 00:41:27,083
would be selling a forward

2033
00:41:27,083 --> 00:41:29,208
on a future block,

2034
00:41:29,208 --> 00:41:30,750
that you would have priority

2035
00:41:30,750 --> 00:41:31,541
with whatever node

2036
00:41:31,541 --> 00:41:33,208
group or miner to settle

2037
00:41:33,208 --> 00:41:34,083
whatever transaction

2038
00:41:34,083 --> 00:41:34,541
you have.

2039
00:41:34,541 --> 00:41:36,083
If Bitcoin becomes too

2040
00:41:36,083 --> 00:41:36,500
crowded

2041
00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:36,708
from a

2042
00:41:36,708 --> 00:41:38,458
transactional standpoint,

2043
00:41:38,458 --> 00:41:39,500
which is actually kind of

2044
00:41:39,500 --> 00:41:41,000
fascinating to think of,

2045
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:41,625
which is then

2046
00:41:41,625 --> 00:41:42,791
where the conversation

2047
00:41:42,791 --> 00:41:43,750
has to go,

2048
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:44,791
that I believe

2049
00:41:44,791 --> 00:41:46,375
that you have to push any

2050
00:41:46,375 --> 00:41:46,666
of what

2051
00:41:46,666 --> 00:41:48,000
that theoretical transaction

2052
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,375
volume would be

2053
00:41:49,375 --> 00:41:51,625
to a theoretical layer two

2054
00:41:51,625 --> 00:41:53,541
or a parallel coin or,

2055
00:41:53,541 --> 00:41:55,208
an adjacent coin,

2056
00:41:55,208 --> 00:41:55,958
which again,

2057
00:41:55,958 --> 00:41:56,708
then it's somewhere

2058
00:41:56,708 --> 00:41:58,666
else, right? Exactly.

2059
00:41:58,666 --> 00:42:00,458
Or somewhere else completely.

2060
00:42:00,458 --> 00:42:00,708
Which is

2061
00:42:00,708 --> 00:42:01,375
actually interesting.

2062
00:42:01,375 --> 00:42:03,875
Did you see, in El Salvador,

2063
00:42:04,916 --> 00:42:06,083
at plan B, tether

2064
00:42:06,083 --> 00:42:06,708
announced that

2065
00:42:06,708 --> 00:42:07,375
they're going to be trying

2066
00:42:07,375 --> 00:42:08,250
to bring tether

2067
00:42:08,250 --> 00:42:10,125
on top of Bitcoin.

2068
00:42:10,125 --> 00:42:10,791
Yeah.

2069
00:42:10,791 --> 00:42:12,250
And and like this is

2070
00:42:12,250 --> 00:42:12,791
what would your thoughts

2071
00:42:12,791 --> 00:42:13,250
be on that.

2072
00:42:13,250 --> 00:42:14,291
Because the first time I,

2073
00:42:14,291 --> 00:42:15,291
the first time that I saw

2074
00:42:15,291 --> 00:42:15,833
that I was like

2075
00:42:15,833 --> 00:42:17,333
that sounds incredible.

2076
00:42:17,333 --> 00:42:18,000
So and this is

2077
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:18,416
maybe just

2078
00:42:18,416 --> 00:42:19,791
where I think of Bitcoin

2079
00:42:19,791 --> 00:42:20,541
slightly different

2080
00:42:20,541 --> 00:42:21,208
than you do

2081
00:42:21,208 --> 00:42:22,958
because I think of Bitcoin

2082
00:42:22,958 --> 00:42:25,958
with my accounting brain.

2083
00:42:26,083 --> 00:42:27,458
When I put my CPA hat on,

2084
00:42:27,458 --> 00:42:28,166
I think of Bitcoin

2085
00:42:28,166 --> 00:42:29,583
as a ledger system.

2086
00:42:29,583 --> 00:42:31,375
And I want all of global

2087
00:42:31,375 --> 00:42:33,291
finance to transact

2088
00:42:33,291 --> 00:42:34,333
and be immutable

2089
00:42:34,333 --> 00:42:36,000
and be permissionless

2090
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,083
and be transparent.

2091
00:42:37,083 --> 00:42:38,000
On top of that,

2092
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:38,625
what I think

2093
00:42:38,625 --> 00:42:40,583
is a perfect ledger.

2094
00:42:40,583 --> 00:42:41,208
So that's

2095
00:42:41,208 --> 00:42:42,208
I think that's,

2096
00:42:42,208 --> 00:42:43,791
that's a utopia

2097
00:42:43,791 --> 00:42:44,708
and that is that

2098
00:42:44,708 --> 00:42:46,666
the entire system

2099
00:42:46,666 --> 00:42:49,041
is dependent on the Satoshi

2100
00:42:49,041 --> 00:42:50,708
being the asset.

2101
00:42:50,708 --> 00:42:51,833
Like, yeah,

2102
00:42:51,833 --> 00:42:53,250
Bitcoin doesn't reward

2103
00:42:53,250 --> 00:42:54,708
its miners in dollars

2104
00:42:54,708 --> 00:42:55,708
or tether or,

2105
00:42:55,708 --> 00:42:56,875
or fucking monkey

2106
00:42:56,875 --> 00:42:58,541
JPEGs or anything else.

2107
00:42:58,541 --> 00:42:59,875
It's it rewards

2108
00:42:59,875 --> 00:43:01,541
its miners in,

2109
00:43:02,708 --> 00:43:03,958
in Satoshi's.

2110
00:43:03,958 --> 00:43:06,208
And it's actually not like

2111
00:43:06,208 --> 00:43:08,375
the miners do not

2112
00:43:08,375 --> 00:43:09,958
search for satoshis.

2113
00:43:09,958 --> 00:43:11,958
They don't mine bitcoins.

2114
00:43:11,958 --> 00:43:13,416
They mined blocks

2115
00:43:13,416 --> 00:43:14,291
and they mined blocks.

2116
00:43:14,291 --> 00:43:14,875
Based block

2117
00:43:14,875 --> 00:43:16,208
space is the asset

2118
00:43:16,208 --> 00:43:17,583
they produce.

2119
00:43:17,583 --> 00:43:19,458
And the Bitcoin miners

2120
00:43:19,458 --> 00:43:20,458
who run the nodes

2121
00:43:20,458 --> 00:43:21,500
and actually

2122
00:43:21,500 --> 00:43:24,250
actually run the system,

2123
00:43:24,250 --> 00:43:25,791
we pay the miners

2124
00:43:25,791 --> 00:43:27,500
to do our security work

2125
00:43:27,500 --> 00:43:29,625
for us and create blocks.

2126
00:43:29,625 --> 00:43:31,250
So the miners get paid

2127
00:43:31,250 --> 00:43:31,916
by the Bitcoin.

2128
00:43:31,916 --> 00:43:32,708
It's not only in

2129
00:43:32,708 --> 00:43:35,333
the new newly minted Bitcoin,

2130
00:43:35,333 --> 00:43:36,833
but also in the fees.

2131
00:43:36,833 --> 00:43:38,291
So the two aspects of that,

2132
00:43:38,291 --> 00:43:38,750
the fees

2133
00:43:38,750 --> 00:43:40,375
and the newly minted coins.

2134
00:43:40,375 --> 00:43:41,208
And as soon as

2135
00:43:41,208 --> 00:43:42,083
you start messing

2136
00:43:42,083 --> 00:43:43,583
with those incentives

2137
00:43:43,583 --> 00:43:44,625
and create other things

2138
00:43:44,625 --> 00:43:45,958
and pretend

2139
00:43:45,958 --> 00:43:47,625
that you can order satoshis,

2140
00:43:47,625 --> 00:43:49,500
which you can't like,

2141
00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:50,708
there is no ordering

2142
00:43:50,708 --> 00:43:52,250
in the actual

2143
00:43:52,250 --> 00:43:53,541
Bitcoin protocol

2144
00:43:53,541 --> 00:43:54,750
or the ordering,

2145
00:43:55,708 --> 00:43:57,875
in in the ordinals bullshit.

2146
00:43:57,875 --> 00:43:59,041
It's made by third

2147
00:43:59,041 --> 00:44:00,250
party websites.

2148
00:44:00,250 --> 00:44:01,166
So when you see

2149
00:44:01,166 --> 00:44:02,416
if you go to mempool

2150
00:44:02,416 --> 00:44:03,000
dot space

2151
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,208
and you see something,

2152
00:44:05,208 --> 00:44:06,541
the like, you see this

2153
00:44:06,541 --> 00:44:07,666
transaction is data

2154
00:44:07,666 --> 00:44:08,458
and you can even

2155
00:44:08,458 --> 00:44:09,416
see the block

2156
00:44:09,416 --> 00:44:10,166
looking like

2157
00:44:10,166 --> 00:44:11,166
a picture of Donald Trump

2158
00:44:11,166 --> 00:44:11,875
or something,

2159
00:44:11,875 --> 00:44:12,708
you have to remember

2160
00:44:12,708 --> 00:44:13,541
that mempool dot

2161
00:44:13,541 --> 00:44:15,125
space is not Bitcoin.

2162
00:44:15,125 --> 00:44:16,916
It's a third party website

2163
00:44:16,916 --> 00:44:18,458
that chooses to

2164
00:44:18,458 --> 00:44:20,500
to visualize the blockchain

2165
00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:22,458
in this in this way.

2166
00:44:22,458 --> 00:44:24,208
But it's not real.

2167
00:44:24,208 --> 00:44:25,875
It's it's absolutely

2168
00:44:25,875 --> 00:44:27,708
third party has nothing to do

2169
00:44:27,708 --> 00:44:29,083
with actual Bitcoin

2170
00:44:29,083 --> 00:44:30,708
like that is not internal

2171
00:44:30,708 --> 00:44:31,416
to the system.

2172
00:44:31,416 --> 00:44:33,250
All of that is external.

2173
00:44:33,250 --> 00:44:33,750
And this is

2174
00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:35,375
why it's so crucial for the

2175
00:44:35,375 --> 00:44:37,125
for the system to be pure

2176
00:44:37,125 --> 00:44:38,375
and internal to itself.

2177
00:44:38,375 --> 00:44:39,708
And I'm a huge

2178
00:44:39,708 --> 00:44:41,166
a proponent of ocean

2179
00:44:41,166 --> 00:44:43,541
mining and knots and

2180
00:44:43,541 --> 00:44:45,250
Luke Dashers work here

2181
00:44:45,250 --> 00:44:46,166
because right now

2182
00:44:46,166 --> 00:44:47,000
he's the only one

2183
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:48,458
and he's done it before,

2184
00:44:48,458 --> 00:44:49,583
protected Bitcoin

2185
00:44:49,583 --> 00:44:51,375
from itself from its,

2186
00:44:51,375 --> 00:44:53,958
its ignorant users.

2187
00:44:53,958 --> 00:44:56,250
But but for instance,

2188
00:44:56,250 --> 00:44:57,875
he came up with SegWit as a,

2189
00:44:57,875 --> 00:44:58,708
as a soft fork

2190
00:44:58,708 --> 00:45:00,625
instead of a hard fork. And

2191
00:45:01,791 --> 00:45:02,250
so he's

2192
00:45:02,250 --> 00:45:03,166
once again

2193
00:45:03,166 --> 00:45:03,833
pointing out

2194
00:45:03,833 --> 00:45:04,375
something that

2195
00:45:04,375 --> 00:45:05,250
no one else saw.

2196
00:45:05,250 --> 00:45:06,541
And, Short Ocean

2197
00:45:06,541 --> 00:45:06,958
won't be

2198
00:45:06,958 --> 00:45:08,083
the only alternative.

2199
00:45:08,083 --> 00:45:08,500
I know that

2200
00:45:08,500 --> 00:45:09,166
other mining

2201
00:45:09,166 --> 00:45:10,041
pools are coming up

2202
00:45:10,041 --> 00:45:10,750
that are going

2203
00:45:10,750 --> 00:45:12,291
to be transparent like this,

2204
00:45:12,291 --> 00:45:13,166
and also are going

2205
00:45:13,166 --> 00:45:14,666
to filter out the bullshit

2206
00:45:14,666 --> 00:45:16,000
because it's absolutely.

2207
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:17,208
And meanwhile,

2208
00:45:17,208 --> 00:45:18,291
fucking wizards

2209
00:45:18,291 --> 00:45:21,083
get 30 million,

2210
00:45:21,083 --> 00:45:21,875
ordinary cut

2211
00:45:21,875 --> 00:45:22,791
bucks in funding

2212
00:45:22,791 --> 00:45:23,958
from some other firm

2213
00:45:23,958 --> 00:45:24,833
that have found out

2214
00:45:24,833 --> 00:45:25,791
another way to rug

2215
00:45:25,791 --> 00:45:26,500
pull people.

2216
00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:27,333
What, what?

2217
00:45:27,333 --> 00:45:28,708
These are chip coins.

2218
00:45:28,708 --> 00:45:29,333
They're doing

2219
00:45:29,333 --> 00:45:31,375
the exact same type of scams

2220
00:45:31,375 --> 00:45:33,958
as they were back in 2017.

2221
00:45:33,958 --> 00:45:34,416
It's just that

2222
00:45:34,416 --> 00:45:35,125
they figured out

2223
00:45:35,125 --> 00:45:36,166
a way to fool people

2224
00:45:36,166 --> 00:45:36,833
that you can do it

2225
00:45:36,833 --> 00:45:39,083
on Bitcoin, but in reality,

2226
00:45:39,083 --> 00:45:40,666
owning anything,

2227
00:45:40,666 --> 00:45:41,541
owning any

2228
00:45:41,541 --> 00:45:42,708
arbitrary data

2229
00:45:42,708 --> 00:45:44,000
is not ownership at all.

2230
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:44,875
It's just like owning

2231
00:45:44,875 --> 00:45:45,916
a star in the

2232
00:45:45,916 --> 00:45:47,250
Andromeda galaxy

2233
00:45:47,250 --> 00:45:48,500
where you can say it's yours,

2234
00:45:48,500 --> 00:45:49,500
but you can't fucking do

2235
00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:50,750
anything with it.

2236
00:45:50,750 --> 00:45:51,333
Yeah, it's

2237
00:45:51,333 --> 00:45:52,625
everyone else's too.

2238
00:45:52,625 --> 00:45:53,625
Like it's on there

2239
00:45:53,625 --> 00:45:54,291
on the blockchain.

2240
00:45:54,291 --> 00:45:55,333
The only thing that makes

2241
00:45:55,333 --> 00:45:57,083
the Satoshi different

2242
00:45:57,083 --> 00:45:58,250
is the probabilities

2243
00:45:58,250 --> 00:45:59,291
that we talked about before.

2244
00:45:59,291 --> 00:45:59,875
It's,

2245
00:45:59,875 --> 00:46:01,166
you don't actually own it.

2246
00:46:01,166 --> 00:46:02,541
You just find it improbable

2247
00:46:02,541 --> 00:46:03,250
that someone else

2248
00:46:03,250 --> 00:46:04,583
will figure out the key.

2249
00:46:04,583 --> 00:46:05,791
This is not true at all

2250
00:46:05,791 --> 00:46:07,125
for any other token,

2251
00:46:07,125 --> 00:46:08,125
because the issuer

2252
00:46:08,125 --> 00:46:09,208
of that token

2253
00:46:09,208 --> 00:46:10,375
and whoever owns the third

2254
00:46:10,375 --> 00:46:12,208
party website can do with it

2255
00:46:12,208 --> 00:46:13,000
what they wish.

2256
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:14,208
At any point in time.

2257
00:46:14,208 --> 00:46:15,041
And you've seen this

2258
00:46:15,041 --> 00:46:16,166
with fucking NFTs

2259
00:46:16,166 --> 00:46:17,416
that were unique

2260
00:46:17,416 --> 00:46:18,666
to just about every project

2261
00:46:18,666 --> 00:46:19,083
out there.

2262
00:46:19,083 --> 00:46:19,375
Yeah,

2263
00:46:19,375 --> 00:46:21,208
and just about every

2264
00:46:21,208 --> 00:46:22,333
crypto asset,

2265
00:46:22,333 --> 00:46:23,166
as you call them.

2266
00:46:23,166 --> 00:46:23,750
I call them

2267
00:46:23,750 --> 00:46:24,916
fucking share coins.

2268
00:46:24,916 --> 00:46:26,125
And that's the proper name.

2269
00:46:26,125 --> 00:46:27,333
It's not crypto assets.

2270
00:46:27,333 --> 00:46:28,250
There is no second

2271
00:46:28,250 --> 00:46:29,458
best like this is

2272
00:46:29,458 --> 00:46:31,166
this is the whole point.

2273
00:46:31,166 --> 00:46:33,333
If there was a second best,

2274
00:46:33,333 --> 00:46:34,041
Bitcoin would

2275
00:46:34,041 --> 00:46:35,000
also be pointless

2276
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:35,750
because Bitcoin

2277
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:36,541
would just be another

2278
00:46:36,541 --> 00:46:38,958
shit coin. So yeah, but

2279
00:46:40,333 --> 00:46:43,208
I so I don't disagree.

2280
00:46:43,208 --> 00:46:43,958
The one question

2281
00:46:43,958 --> 00:46:44,541
I would have for

2282
00:46:44,541 --> 00:46:46,625
you though would be is

2283
00:46:46,625 --> 00:46:48,916
so where do we see

2284
00:46:48,916 --> 00:46:51,208
investments in companies

2285
00:46:51,208 --> 00:46:52,375
in equities

2286
00:46:52,375 --> 00:46:53,875
or other financial. Yeah.

2287
00:46:53,875 --> 00:46:54,541
Where do we see

2288
00:46:54,541 --> 00:46:55,208
investments

2289
00:46:55,208 --> 00:46:57,083
in financial instruments

2290
00:46:57,083 --> 00:46:57,291
okay.

2291
00:46:57,291 --> 00:46:58,583
In that hyper bitcoin

2292
00:46:58,583 --> 00:46:59,125
ization world

2293
00:46:59,125 --> 00:46:59,958
that you're describing.

2294
00:46:59,958 --> 00:47:00,708
Because I'm describing

2295
00:47:00,708 --> 00:47:01,875
this tokenization world.

2296
00:47:01,875 --> 00:47:01,916
Yeah.

2297
00:47:01,916 --> 00:47:02,458
And I hope that

2298
00:47:02,458 --> 00:47:05,041
that comes to Bitcoin.

2299
00:47:05,041 --> 00:47:06,125
And like so

2300
00:47:06,125 --> 00:47:07,166
if I even expand

2301
00:47:07,166 --> 00:47:08,916
that a bit further.

2302
00:47:08,916 --> 00:47:09,958
So I would love to see

2303
00:47:09,958 --> 00:47:10,500
a world

2304
00:47:10,500 --> 00:47:12,333
where the construct

2305
00:47:12,333 --> 00:47:13,708
of an organization

2306
00:47:13,708 --> 00:47:15,458
or a corporate charter,

2307
00:47:15,458 --> 00:47:16,416
which is,

2308
00:47:16,416 --> 00:47:17,375
I mean, still largely

2309
00:47:17,375 --> 00:47:18,500
based off of the East

2310
00:47:18,500 --> 00:47:19,708
India Company,

2311
00:47:19,708 --> 00:47:21,291
back from like the,

2312
00:47:21,291 --> 00:47:22,750
15, 1600s. Right.

2313
00:47:22,750 --> 00:47:23,125
If you

2314
00:47:23,125 --> 00:47:24,291
I would like to add

2315
00:47:24,291 --> 00:47:26,125
a 10th of a ship.

2316
00:47:26,125 --> 00:47:26,958
You. Exactly.

2317
00:47:26,958 --> 00:47:27,750
You're only a 10th

2318
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:28,750
when one ship sunk.

2319
00:47:28,750 --> 00:47:30,083
Yes, exactly.

2320
00:47:30,083 --> 00:47:31,458
Like I would like to see

2321
00:47:31,458 --> 00:47:32,625
what the construct

2322
00:47:32,625 --> 00:47:33,541
of an organization

2323
00:47:33,541 --> 00:47:35,208
is from a

2324
00:47:35,208 --> 00:47:36,291
theoretical as well

2325
00:47:36,291 --> 00:47:37,708
as from a legal perspective,

2326
00:47:37,708 --> 00:47:39,666
changed entirely.

2327
00:47:39,666 --> 00:47:40,708
And really be

2328
00:47:40,708 --> 00:47:42,375
a community driven thing,

2329
00:47:42,375 --> 00:47:43,583
which for a little bit,

2330
00:47:43,583 --> 00:47:44,000
it looked like

2331
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,083
ICOs might have been

2332
00:47:45,083 --> 00:47:46,666
a way to solve that, but hey,

2333
00:47:46,666 --> 00:47:47,833
then that all went to shit.

2334
00:47:47,833 --> 00:47:49,791
So at this,

2335
00:47:49,791 --> 00:47:50,583
okay, like in crypto,

2336
00:47:50,583 --> 00:47:51,375
we create something

2337
00:47:51,375 --> 00:47:51,750
that could be

2338
00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:52,916
a technological innovation

2339
00:47:52,916 --> 00:47:53,333
and we end up

2340
00:47:53,333 --> 00:47:54,375
screwing it up anyway.

2341
00:47:54,375 --> 00:47:55,000
But I guess that's

2342
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:56,166
because to your point,

2343
00:47:56,166 --> 00:47:57,000
it's all bullshit.

2344
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,291
It's all scammers anyway.

2345
00:47:58,291 --> 00:47:59,458
Yeah.

2346
00:47:59,458 --> 00:48:00,583
So in that hope.

2347
00:48:00,583 --> 00:48:00,791
So.

2348
00:48:00,791 --> 00:48:01,375
That's why

2349
00:48:01,375 --> 00:48:02,541
it's all boils down

2350
00:48:02,541 --> 00:48:03,083
to the double

2351
00:48:03,083 --> 00:48:04,208
spending problem.

2352
00:48:04,208 --> 00:48:06,416
You can double spend crypto.

2353
00:48:06,416 --> 00:48:07,250
So therefore

2354
00:48:07,250 --> 00:48:08,500
the double spending problem

2355
00:48:08,500 --> 00:48:09,416
is like

2356
00:48:09,416 --> 00:48:10,500
at the very nature

2357
00:48:10,500 --> 00:48:11,125
of the double

2358
00:48:11,125 --> 00:48:13,333
spending problem is of such

2359
00:48:13,333 --> 00:48:14,458
as like

2360
00:48:14,458 --> 00:48:15,291
that it can only

2361
00:48:15,291 --> 00:48:16,625
be solved once

2362
00:48:16,625 --> 00:48:18,000
if you really think about it.

2363
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:19,541
If you can solve the double

2364
00:48:19,541 --> 00:48:21,416
spending problem twice,

2365
00:48:21,416 --> 00:48:22,416
you haven't solved

2366
00:48:22,416 --> 00:48:24,500
the double spending problem.

2367
00:48:24,500 --> 00:48:24,958
It's a cult.

2368
00:48:24,958 --> 00:48:25,708
So how do you have

2369
00:48:25,708 --> 00:48:27,375
a copy of a copy?

2370
00:48:27,375 --> 00:48:28,250
So it's

2371
00:48:28,250 --> 00:48:29,708
so hard to resolve the.

2372
00:48:29,708 --> 00:48:30,541
So how do you solve

2373
00:48:30,541 --> 00:48:30,958
the double

2374
00:48:30,958 --> 00:48:32,041
spending problem

2375
00:48:32,041 --> 00:48:32,958
for investments

2376
00:48:32,958 --> 00:48:34,250
in financial instruments?

2377
00:48:34,250 --> 00:48:36,625
And the answer I have like

2378
00:48:36,625 --> 00:48:38,041
in the current system,

2379
00:48:38,041 --> 00:48:39,375
a blockchain adds

2380
00:48:39,375 --> 00:48:40,791
absolutely fuck gold

2381
00:48:40,791 --> 00:48:42,083
because it doesn't provide

2382
00:48:42,083 --> 00:48:43,625
any additional security.

2383
00:48:43,625 --> 00:48:45,083
I just don't buy that it's

2384
00:48:45,083 --> 00:48:46,041
you still rely

2385
00:48:46,041 --> 00:48:46,875
on a third party,

2386
00:48:46,875 --> 00:48:47,833
and you might as well

2387
00:48:47,833 --> 00:48:48,958
rely on the judge

2388
00:48:48,958 --> 00:48:49,458
that you're

2389
00:48:49,458 --> 00:48:50,541
relying on anyway,

2390
00:48:50,541 --> 00:48:52,208
when the crypto

2391
00:48:52,208 --> 00:48:53,333
bullshit you attached

2392
00:48:53,333 --> 00:48:54,125
your equity to

2393
00:48:54,125 --> 00:48:55,125
it goes to shit.

2394
00:48:55,125 --> 00:48:57,000
So I don't think that adds

2395
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:58,250
anything of value.

2396
00:48:58,250 --> 00:48:59,916
It's just buzzwords and code.

2397
00:48:59,916 --> 00:49:01,916
So in my opinion,

2398
00:49:01,916 --> 00:49:03,208
having said that,

2399
00:49:03,208 --> 00:49:04,041
you asked

2400
00:49:04,041 --> 00:49:05,458
what happens with equities

2401
00:49:05,458 --> 00:49:06,458
and stocks and bonds

2402
00:49:06,458 --> 00:49:07,416
in a hyper

2403
00:49:07,416 --> 00:49:08,583
bitcoin ized world.

2404
00:49:08,583 --> 00:49:10,916
And I foresee that as like

2405
00:49:10,916 --> 00:49:11,916
being more

2406
00:49:11,916 --> 00:49:13,041
and more unnecessary.

2407
00:49:13,041 --> 00:49:14,000
So you'll have

2408
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:15,333
like the way I see it

2409
00:49:15,333 --> 00:49:16,208
is that the

2410
00:49:16,208 --> 00:49:18,041
so-called financial sector,

2411
00:49:19,041 --> 00:49:20,250
developed in parallel

2412
00:49:20,250 --> 00:49:21,125
with the printing

2413
00:49:21,125 --> 00:49:22,000
of more money

2414
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:23,458
and now it owns the world.

2415
00:49:23,458 --> 00:49:24,291
Everything is in the

2416
00:49:24,291 --> 00:49:25,208
financial sector.

2417
00:49:25,208 --> 00:49:26,416
And this is not a good thing.

2418
00:49:26,416 --> 00:49:27,833
This is a bad thing.

2419
00:49:27,833 --> 00:49:29,333
And on on a pure

2420
00:49:29,333 --> 00:49:30,750
Bitcoin standard.

2421
00:49:30,750 --> 00:49:31,833
And I know this because I'm

2422
00:49:31,833 --> 00:49:32,500
in these

2423
00:49:32,500 --> 00:49:33,875
types of groups already.

2424
00:49:33,875 --> 00:49:35,125
You can run a company

2425
00:49:35,125 --> 00:49:37,333
without any friction at all.

2426
00:49:37,333 --> 00:49:40,333
You can just have okay,

2427
00:49:41,208 --> 00:49:42,958
three guys in a basement,

2428
00:49:42,958 --> 00:49:44,375
we, we get a third

2429
00:49:44,375 --> 00:49:45,291
each of whatever

2430
00:49:45,291 --> 00:49:46,166
this company makes.

2431
00:49:46,166 --> 00:49:47,333
And it doesn't have to be

2432
00:49:47,333 --> 00:49:48,500
more than a telegram group.

2433
00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:49,041
You don't have to

2434
00:49:49,041 --> 00:49:50,125
do any accounting.

2435
00:49:50,125 --> 00:49:50,625
You don't have

2436
00:49:50,625 --> 00:49:51,333
to do anything.

2437
00:49:51,333 --> 00:49:51,750
You can be

2438
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:53,083
completely sovereign

2439
00:49:53,083 --> 00:49:54,208
and just have the funds

2440
00:49:54,208 --> 00:49:55,083
of whatever you sell

2441
00:49:55,083 --> 00:49:56,583
directly, directed

2442
00:49:56,583 --> 00:49:58,208
directly to you.

2443
00:49:58,208 --> 00:49:59,083
So all of these

2444
00:49:59,083 --> 00:50:00,500
other layers, like,

2445
00:50:01,875 --> 00:50:04,041
legal entities and what,

2446
00:50:04,041 --> 00:50:06,291
what I like to call,

2447
00:50:06,291 --> 00:50:07,291
to quote my good friend

2448
00:50:07,291 --> 00:50:08,083
Dave Bradley,

2449
00:50:08,083 --> 00:50:11,083
lubrication companies, like,

2450
00:50:11,250 --> 00:50:12,250
what, what,

2451
00:50:12,250 --> 00:50:12,875
a company

2452
00:50:12,875 --> 00:50:13,875
like Deloitte

2453
00:50:13,875 --> 00:50:14,416
or something

2454
00:50:14,416 --> 00:50:15,291
is actually doing

2455
00:50:15,291 --> 00:50:17,375
or any like, legal

2456
00:50:17,375 --> 00:50:18,666
that helps you with

2457
00:50:18,666 --> 00:50:19,708
one government

2458
00:50:19,708 --> 00:50:20,833
because this is,

2459
00:50:20,833 --> 00:50:21,583
this is an interesting

2460
00:50:21,583 --> 00:50:22,375
thought process.

2461
00:50:22,375 --> 00:50:25,416
So you have this company

2462
00:50:25,416 --> 00:50:26,000
with your three

2463
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,041
friends, right?

2464
00:50:28,041 --> 00:50:31,791
How do you verify that

2465
00:50:32,333 --> 00:50:33,333
each and every single

2466
00:50:33,333 --> 00:50:33,791
one of you

2467
00:50:33,791 --> 00:50:35,375
is entitled to one third

2468
00:50:35,375 --> 00:50:37,791
of the revenue or the profit

2469
00:50:37,791 --> 00:50:39,125
from that company with you

2470
00:50:39,125 --> 00:50:39,416
because you

2471
00:50:39,416 --> 00:50:40,208
don't have a

2472
00:50:40,208 --> 00:50:43,208
legal entity right?

2473
00:50:43,250 --> 00:50:45,541
Oh, well,

2474
00:50:45,541 --> 00:50:46,041
because at the end

2475
00:50:46,041 --> 00:50:46,666
of the day, you

2476
00:50:46,666 --> 00:50:47,375
at the end of the day,

2477
00:50:47,375 --> 00:50:47,750
you're going to have

2478
00:50:47,750 --> 00:50:49,333
to trust one another or trust

2479
00:50:49,333 --> 00:50:50,333
whoever is

2480
00:50:50,333 --> 00:50:51,416
managing the books,

2481
00:50:51,416 --> 00:50:51,750
or you say

2482
00:50:51,750 --> 00:50:52,583
there is no accounting,

2483
00:50:52,583 --> 00:50:52,958
but you're going to

2484
00:50:52,958 --> 00:50:54,166
have to trust.

2485
00:50:54,166 --> 00:50:54,958
There has to be revenue

2486
00:50:54,958 --> 00:50:56,666
coming from somewhere,

2487
00:50:56,666 --> 00:50:58,250
denominated in some currency.

2488
00:50:58,250 --> 00:50:58,833
Obviously, it's

2489
00:50:58,833 --> 00:50:59,541
probably Bitcoin

2490
00:50:59,541 --> 00:51:00,375
in this scenario.

2491
00:51:00,375 --> 00:51:00,625
Well,

2492
00:51:00,625 --> 00:51:01,083
if you have

2493
00:51:01,083 --> 00:51:02,125
open source software

2494
00:51:02,125 --> 00:51:03,333
and you write the website,

2495
00:51:03,333 --> 00:51:04,166
you're selling stuff

2496
00:51:04,166 --> 00:51:05,541
from yourself

2497
00:51:05,541 --> 00:51:07,041
or like just set up

2498
00:51:07,041 --> 00:51:08,250
a Bitcoin server

2499
00:51:08,250 --> 00:51:09,291
and have that direct

2500
00:51:09,291 --> 00:51:11,208
the sets three ways,

2501
00:51:11,208 --> 00:51:14,041
then then no, no further

2502
00:51:14,041 --> 00:51:15,083
trust is needed

2503
00:51:15,083 --> 00:51:15,833
because you can

2504
00:51:15,833 --> 00:51:16,916
you can verify it

2505
00:51:16,916 --> 00:51:18,083
for yourself.

2506
00:51:18,083 --> 00:51:19,250
It's like how are

2507
00:51:19,250 --> 00:51:20,875
our expenses covered?

2508
00:51:20,875 --> 00:51:22,500
And who is,

2509
00:51:22,500 --> 00:51:23,458
paying for the expenses

2510
00:51:23,458 --> 00:51:24,416
for the AWS

2511
00:51:24,416 --> 00:51:25,791
or whatever hosting service

2512
00:51:25,791 --> 00:51:26,458
you're using for your

2513
00:51:26,458 --> 00:51:27,083
in the same way

2514
00:51:27,083 --> 00:51:27,708
I mean,

2515
00:51:27,708 --> 00:51:29,541
I don't believe in

2516
00:51:29,541 --> 00:51:30,125
totally

2517
00:51:30,125 --> 00:51:31,500
decentralized companies.

2518
00:51:31,500 --> 00:51:33,083
I do believe in hierarchies.

2519
00:51:33,083 --> 00:51:33,916
I think there's nothing

2520
00:51:33,916 --> 00:51:34,416
inherently

2521
00:51:34,416 --> 00:51:35,500
wrong with hierarchy.

2522
00:51:35,500 --> 00:51:36,291
So so like

2523
00:51:36,291 --> 00:51:37,125
like I said before,

2524
00:51:37,125 --> 00:51:38,333
I think decentralization

2525
00:51:38,333 --> 00:51:39,958
is a unfortunate

2526
00:51:39,958 --> 00:51:41,083
means to a greater end,

2527
00:51:41,083 --> 00:51:43,083
which is sound money,

2528
00:51:43,083 --> 00:51:43,666
because if you

2529
00:51:43,666 --> 00:51:44,458
have some money,

2530
00:51:44,458 --> 00:51:44,875
you can do

2531
00:51:44,875 --> 00:51:45,625
all the other stuff.

2532
00:51:45,625 --> 00:51:46,958
And, and what do you say

2533
00:51:46,958 --> 00:51:48,541
about legal,

2534
00:51:48,541 --> 00:51:49,583
the legal stuff,

2535
00:51:49,583 --> 00:51:51,000
like who owns what to whom?

2536
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:51,666
Like, yeah,

2537
00:51:51,666 --> 00:51:52,958
I still believe in contracts

2538
00:51:52,958 --> 00:51:53,333
and needs.

2539
00:51:53,333 --> 00:51:54,208
You should uphold

2540
00:51:54,208 --> 00:51:54,875
your contract.

2541
00:51:56,041 --> 00:51:58,166
Got it.

2542
00:51:58,166 --> 00:51:59,333
What we're doing now

2543
00:51:59,333 --> 00:51:59,666
is that

2544
00:51:59,666 --> 00:52:01,583
we're outsourcing legal,

2545
00:52:01,583 --> 00:52:02,541
whether we want it

2546
00:52:02,541 --> 00:52:04,041
or not, to an entity

2547
00:52:04,041 --> 00:52:05,125
that takes our stuff,

2548
00:52:05,125 --> 00:52:06,583
namely the state.

2549
00:52:06,583 --> 00:52:08,208
Like so we've outsourced

2550
00:52:08,208 --> 00:52:09,541
everything legal

2551
00:52:09,541 --> 00:52:10,291
to an entity

2552
00:52:10,291 --> 00:52:13,250
that is inherently criminal.

2553
00:52:13,250 --> 00:52:15,708
So so so and if so.

2554
00:52:15,708 --> 00:52:16,250
So those

2555
00:52:16,250 --> 00:52:16,833
lawyers are

2556
00:52:16,833 --> 00:52:17,750
obviously criminals.

2557
00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:18,541
I couldn't agree with you.

2558
00:52:18,541 --> 00:52:19,166
No, but

2559
00:52:19,166 --> 00:52:20,333
this is where

2560
00:52:20,333 --> 00:52:20,875
where we get

2561
00:52:20,875 --> 00:52:22,791
into libertarian,

2562
00:52:22,791 --> 00:52:25,041
ethical and moral philosophy.

2563
00:52:25,041 --> 00:52:25,500
Right.

2564
00:52:25,500 --> 00:52:26,750
What what is okay

2565
00:52:26,750 --> 00:52:28,083
and what is not okay.

2566
00:52:28,083 --> 00:52:30,208
And there are already

2567
00:52:30,208 --> 00:52:31,375
entities out there

2568
00:52:31,375 --> 00:52:33,750
that are trying to,

2569
00:52:33,750 --> 00:52:34,333
like, like

2570
00:52:34,333 --> 00:52:35,375
they are giving

2571
00:52:35,375 --> 00:52:36,125
people options

2572
00:52:36,125 --> 00:52:36,750
so they

2573
00:52:36,750 --> 00:52:37,916
so you can employ

2574
00:52:37,916 --> 00:52:40,375
a libertarian legal,

2575
00:52:40,375 --> 00:52:41,875
firm to say that.

2576
00:52:41,875 --> 00:52:42,291
Okay,

2577
00:52:42,291 --> 00:52:43,041
I have a contract

2578
00:52:43,041 --> 00:52:43,791
with this person.

2579
00:52:43,791 --> 00:52:44,291
And if there's

2580
00:52:44,291 --> 00:52:45,166
ever a dispute,

2581
00:52:45,166 --> 00:52:46,333
I want you to solve it.

2582
00:52:46,333 --> 00:52:47,166
And not whoever

2583
00:52:47,166 --> 00:52:48,000
the government tells

2584
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:49,541
me I should use. You know,

2585
00:52:50,750 --> 00:52:51,416
these companies

2586
00:52:51,416 --> 00:52:52,291
already exist,

2587
00:52:52,291 --> 00:52:53,541
and I think they will be more

2588
00:52:53,541 --> 00:52:54,291
and more popular

2589
00:52:54,291 --> 00:52:55,250
in the future.

2590
00:52:55,250 --> 00:52:57,041
When when people like.

2591
00:52:57,041 --> 00:52:57,958
Because Bitcoin

2592
00:52:57,958 --> 00:52:59,166
inevitably puts

2593
00:52:59,166 --> 00:53:00,125
people on the path

2594
00:53:00,125 --> 00:53:02,000
to understanding

2595
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:03,083
Austrian economics

2596
00:53:03,083 --> 00:53:05,125
and libertarianism.

2597
00:53:05,125 --> 00:53:06,833
And give them this lens

2598
00:53:06,833 --> 00:53:07,958
to view the world. Why?

2599
00:53:07,958 --> 00:53:08,958
Because what,

2600
00:53:08,958 --> 00:53:10,250
if anything, Bitcoin

2601
00:53:10,250 --> 00:53:11,291
has taught us

2602
00:53:11,291 --> 00:53:12,833
how much we're being scammed

2603
00:53:12,833 --> 00:53:14,333
by the legacy system,

2604
00:53:14,333 --> 00:53:15,083
how much we're being

2605
00:53:15,083 --> 00:53:16,208
scammed by inflation

2606
00:53:16,208 --> 00:53:17,333
and by if

2607
00:53:17,333 --> 00:53:18,750
if someone can print money,

2608
00:53:18,750 --> 00:53:19,791
then why the fuck do we have

2609
00:53:19,791 --> 00:53:20,500
laws at all?

2610
00:53:20,500 --> 00:53:21,416
Like everyone's

2611
00:53:21,416 --> 00:53:22,041
being stolen

2612
00:53:22,041 --> 00:53:22,958
from at all times.

2613
00:53:22,958 --> 00:53:23,875
And if you denominate

2614
00:53:23,875 --> 00:53:24,375
in Bitcoin,

2615
00:53:24,375 --> 00:53:25,125
you can see that

2616
00:53:25,125 --> 00:53:26,375
all prices can

2617
00:53:26,375 --> 00:53:27,416
and ought to

2618
00:53:27,416 --> 00:53:28,708
to decrease over time,

2619
00:53:28,708 --> 00:53:29,250
and everyone

2620
00:53:29,250 --> 00:53:30,375
gets more wealthy

2621
00:53:30,375 --> 00:53:31,208
without it

2622
00:53:31,208 --> 00:53:31,916
having to be

2623
00:53:31,916 --> 00:53:33,708
at the expense of a

2624
00:53:33,708 --> 00:53:34,500
of a third guy.

2625
00:53:34,500 --> 00:53:36,208
Like we can all get wealthier

2626
00:53:36,208 --> 00:53:38,125
and it's it's super easy.

2627
00:53:38,125 --> 00:53:39,000
It's just

2628
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,166
limit the money supply.

2629
00:53:41,333 --> 00:53:42,458
Oh, I agree entirely.

2630
00:53:42,458 --> 00:53:43,083
And that's

2631
00:53:43,083 --> 00:53:45,208
where I think Bitcoin is

2632
00:53:45,208 --> 00:53:46,333
as perfect.

2633
00:53:46,333 --> 00:53:47,458
I mean, I,

2634
00:53:47,458 --> 00:53:48,166
I mean I couldn't

2635
00:53:48,166 --> 00:53:48,666
have conceived

2636
00:53:48,666 --> 00:53:50,125
of bitcoin 20 years ago.

2637
00:53:50,125 --> 00:53:51,041
I don't think anybody could.

2638
00:53:51,041 --> 00:53:51,416
That's why

2639
00:53:51,416 --> 00:53:52,875
Satoshi created it.

2640
00:53:52,875 --> 00:53:54,083
I can't conceive of anything

2641
00:53:54,083 --> 00:53:54,833
that will replace

2642
00:53:54,833 --> 00:53:55,916
Bitcoin as the world's

2643
00:53:55,916 --> 00:53:57,041
most perfect

2644
00:53:57,041 --> 00:53:59,000
form of money ever.

2645
00:53:59,000 --> 00:53:59,750
Probably somebody

2646
00:53:59,750 --> 00:54:00,375
that has a

2647
00:54:00,375 --> 00:54:02,416
higher intelligence,

2648
00:54:02,416 --> 00:54:03,791
or I don't know,

2649
00:54:03,791 --> 00:54:04,250
as a fourth

2650
00:54:04,250 --> 00:54:05,458
dimensional traveler

2651
00:54:05,458 --> 00:54:06,083
is going to have to

2652
00:54:06,083 --> 00:54:08,125
think of something,

2653
00:54:08,125 --> 00:54:08,833
completely outside

2654
00:54:08,833 --> 00:54:09,250
of the scope

2655
00:54:09,250 --> 00:54:10,166
of my comprehension.

2656
00:54:10,166 --> 00:54:11,250
I think all of humanity's

2657
00:54:11,250 --> 00:54:13,375
comprehension. Right.

2658
00:54:13,375 --> 00:54:14,041
But that's still,

2659
00:54:14,041 --> 00:54:15,541
at least for me, doesn't

2660
00:54:15,541 --> 00:54:17,750
necessarily solve

2661
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:19,000
the problems that we do

2662
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:20,083
see in capital markets

2663
00:54:20,083 --> 00:54:21,083
specifically related

2664
00:54:21,083 --> 00:54:22,708
to, transparency,

2665
00:54:22,708 --> 00:54:24,958
related to inclusivity,

2666
00:54:24,958 --> 00:54:26,500
related to 24 over

2667
00:54:26,500 --> 00:54:27,416
seven access

2668
00:54:27,416 --> 00:54:29,083
to trading facilities, which,

2669
00:54:29,083 --> 00:54:29,416
I mean,

2670
00:54:29,416 --> 00:54:30,125
they only run 9

2671
00:54:30,125 --> 00:54:30,833
to 5 every day,

2672
00:54:30,833 --> 00:54:31,125
which is

2673
00:54:31,125 --> 00:54:32,125
horribly unfortunate.

2674
00:54:33,625 --> 00:54:34,583
I mean, that's why.

2675
00:54:34,583 --> 00:54:35,500
But but

2676
00:54:35,500 --> 00:54:36,500
if you have something

2677
00:54:36,500 --> 00:54:37,500
to sell

2678
00:54:37,500 --> 00:54:38,041
and, you know,

2679
00:54:38,041 --> 00:54:39,083
another Bitcoin,

2680
00:54:39,083 --> 00:54:40,083
you can call that guy

2681
00:54:40,083 --> 00:54:41,625
whenever you want like that.

2682
00:54:41,625 --> 00:54:43,500
Bitcoin is always open.

2683
00:54:43,500 --> 00:54:44,541
Like but what if I want to

2684
00:54:44,541 --> 00:54:45,833
I mean but what if I know

2685
00:54:45,833 --> 00:54:46,791
what if I know somebody

2686
00:54:46,791 --> 00:54:48,500
that has something to sell.

2687
00:54:48,500 --> 00:54:50,166
And I'm a strong believer

2688
00:54:50,166 --> 00:54:51,291
in his vision.

2689
00:54:51,291 --> 00:54:53,000
I'm a strong believer in

2690
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:54,500
the product that he's created

2691
00:54:54,500 --> 00:54:56,458
and his ability to sell it.

2692
00:54:56,458 --> 00:54:58,000
And I would like to have

2693
00:54:58,000 --> 00:54:59,458
an ownership stake,

2694
00:54:59,458 --> 00:54:59,916
or rather.

2695
00:54:59,916 --> 00:55:00,208
And so

2696
00:55:00,208 --> 00:55:00,916
let's think about like this.

2697
00:55:00,916 --> 00:55:01,375
I don't want to have

2698
00:55:01,375 --> 00:55:02,000
an ownership

2699
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:03,416
stake in his company

2700
00:55:03,416 --> 00:55:04,750
and the future of equity

2701
00:55:04,750 --> 00:55:07,375
that like, equity. Right.

2702
00:55:07,375 --> 00:55:08,666
But maybe not consider it

2703
00:55:08,666 --> 00:55:10,041
equity, but,

2704
00:55:10,041 --> 00:55:11,250
what was the,

2705
00:55:11,250 --> 00:55:11,958
what did you call it?

2706
00:55:11,958 --> 00:55:13,083
You don't own Bitcoin.

2707
00:55:13,083 --> 00:55:14,125
You possess bitcoin.

2708
00:55:14,125 --> 00:55:15,416
I want

2709
00:55:15,416 --> 00:55:17,666
I want a possession of you

2710
00:55:17,666 --> 00:55:18,750
don't even possess it.

2711
00:55:18,750 --> 00:55:20,125
But anyway, going

2712
00:55:20,125 --> 00:55:21,083
hey, you want

2713
00:55:21,083 --> 00:55:22,208
a part of his company

2714
00:55:22,208 --> 00:55:22,875
like you want to

2715
00:55:22,875 --> 00:55:24,208
part of its company,

2716
00:55:24,208 --> 00:55:25,125
which is an equity.

2717
00:55:25,125 --> 00:55:26,083
And then in that

2718
00:55:26,083 --> 00:55:27,125
bitcoin ization world

2719
00:55:27,125 --> 00:55:29,541
I still can't outside of you

2720
00:55:29,541 --> 00:55:31,250
create some sort of

2721
00:55:31,250 --> 00:55:33,333
automated contractual system

2722
00:55:33,333 --> 00:55:34,750
where I don't believe I

2723
00:55:34,750 --> 00:55:35,708
of the

2724
00:55:35,708 --> 00:55:36,833
I don't believe that either.

2725
00:55:36,833 --> 00:55:37,541
I don't believe in

2726
00:55:37,541 --> 00:55:38,333
smart contracts.

2727
00:55:38,333 --> 00:55:38,750
I think they're

2728
00:55:38,750 --> 00:55:39,666
dumb contracts

2729
00:55:39,666 --> 00:55:40,291
because you're

2730
00:55:40,291 --> 00:55:41,333
still always going,

2731
00:55:41,333 --> 00:55:42,000
oh, you mean the

2732
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:43,000
you mean the wonderful

2733
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:43,833
if then statements

2734
00:55:43,833 --> 00:55:44,416
that we pretend

2735
00:55:44,416 --> 00:55:45,583
are smart contracts.

2736
00:55:45,583 --> 00:55:46,500
Yeah, exactly.

2737
00:55:46,500 --> 00:55:47,208
And unlike

2738
00:55:47,208 --> 00:55:48,333
as soon as

2739
00:55:48,333 --> 00:55:49,041
as I said

2740
00:55:49,041 --> 00:55:50,000
before, with a set

2741
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:51,708
being the internal mechanism

2742
00:55:51,708 --> 00:55:52,250
of the system,

2743
00:55:52,250 --> 00:55:53,208
as soon as you attach

2744
00:55:53,208 --> 00:55:53,750
a blockchain

2745
00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:54,291
to something

2746
00:55:54,291 --> 00:55:55,333
in the outer world

2747
00:55:55,333 --> 00:55:57,041
that does something external,

2748
00:55:57,041 --> 00:55:57,750
then it

2749
00:55:57,750 --> 00:55:58,500
then it messes

2750
00:55:58,500 --> 00:55:59,458
with the internal

2751
00:55:59,458 --> 00:56:01,208
incentives of the system.

2752
00:56:01,208 --> 00:56:03,791
So it's just doesn't work

2753
00:56:03,791 --> 00:56:04,375
because you can

2754
00:56:04,375 --> 00:56:05,875
tamper with the outside world

2755
00:56:05,875 --> 00:56:06,375
and whatever

2756
00:56:06,375 --> 00:56:07,125
it's attached to.

2757
00:56:07,125 --> 00:56:08,333
That is why bananas on

2758
00:56:08,333 --> 00:56:08,875
the blockchain

2759
00:56:08,875 --> 00:56:09,541
makes no sense.

2760
00:56:09,541 --> 00:56:10,208
And so on.

2761
00:56:10,208 --> 00:56:11,458
So,

2762
00:56:11,458 --> 00:56:12,416
I remember when I met

2763
00:56:12,416 --> 00:56:13,583
the banana coin guys.

2764
00:56:14,666 --> 00:56:15,833
But anyway, we got

2765
00:56:15,833 --> 00:56:17,291
to answer the last. Yeah.

2766
00:56:17,291 --> 00:56:18,500
So to answer the question

2767
00:56:18,500 --> 00:56:20,125
about the equity,

2768
00:56:20,125 --> 00:56:22,333
I see now, as I said before,

2769
00:56:22,333 --> 00:56:23,916
I see no benefit of adding

2770
00:56:23,916 --> 00:56:25,375
like a token or a blockchain

2771
00:56:25,375 --> 00:56:26,250
or anything like that

2772
00:56:26,250 --> 00:56:26,666
to that,

2773
00:56:26,666 --> 00:56:27,208
because at

2774
00:56:27,208 --> 00:56:28,000
the end of the day,

2775
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:29,333
a judge is going to decide

2776
00:56:29,333 --> 00:56:30,583
whether the contract

2777
00:56:30,583 --> 00:56:32,041
was upheld or not.

2778
00:56:32,041 --> 00:56:33,500
So I still think equity

2779
00:56:33,500 --> 00:56:34,041
is something

2780
00:56:34,041 --> 00:56:35,333
that we'll have to be

2781
00:56:35,333 --> 00:56:36,625
in a written contract

2782
00:56:36,625 --> 00:56:37,708
between two people.

2783
00:56:37,708 --> 00:56:39,208
What you can do with Bitcoin

2784
00:56:39,208 --> 00:56:40,166
though, is timestamped

2785
00:56:40,166 --> 00:56:40,833
that contract.

2786
00:56:40,833 --> 00:56:42,958
So that's that, that,

2787
00:56:42,958 --> 00:56:44,750
that and you know

2788
00:56:44,750 --> 00:56:45,166
that's

2789
00:56:45,166 --> 00:56:48,166
makes it a tiny bit better.

2790
00:56:49,166 --> 00:56:50,125
Not only a tiny bit

2791
00:56:50,125 --> 00:56:51,083
but quite a bit better

2792
00:56:51,083 --> 00:56:52,208
because you can actually have

2793
00:56:52,208 --> 00:56:53,791
a proper time

2794
00:56:53,791 --> 00:56:54,458
stamp that

2795
00:56:54,458 --> 00:56:55,708
we agreed on this

2796
00:56:55,708 --> 00:56:57,708
at this very moment.

2797
00:56:57,708 --> 00:56:58,791
Yeah.

2798
00:56:58,791 --> 00:56:59,625
So, so that

2799
00:56:59,625 --> 00:57:00,750
I believe it can be used for

2800
00:57:00,750 --> 00:57:01,750
but little else.

2801
00:57:01,750 --> 00:57:03,041
And it doesn't need to,

2802
00:57:03,041 --> 00:57:03,750
because if you

2803
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:05,125
have perfect money,

2804
00:57:05,125 --> 00:57:06,291
then you can exchange that

2805
00:57:06,291 --> 00:57:07,500
for all of these other stuff

2806
00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:08,000
and people

2807
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:09,375
where this is the

2808
00:57:09,375 --> 00:57:10,875
this is the real tech,

2809
00:57:10,875 --> 00:57:11,958
kicker here.

2810
00:57:11,958 --> 00:57:14,500
Because if if I have bitcoin

2811
00:57:14,500 --> 00:57:16,041
and you have bitcoin,

2812
00:57:16,041 --> 00:57:16,791
you and I are

2813
00:57:16,791 --> 00:57:18,125
both incentivized

2814
00:57:18,125 --> 00:57:19,666
to help each other

2815
00:57:19,666 --> 00:57:21,208
succeed in life

2816
00:57:21,208 --> 00:57:22,250
because we know that

2817
00:57:22,250 --> 00:57:23,125
if I know that

2818
00:57:23,125 --> 00:57:23,958
if you succeed,

2819
00:57:23,958 --> 00:57:24,875
you make more money

2820
00:57:24,875 --> 00:57:26,208
and therefore you make

2821
00:57:26,208 --> 00:57:28,166
my money more valuable.

2822
00:57:28,166 --> 00:57:29,416
You see.

2823
00:57:29,416 --> 00:57:30,750
So all Bitcoiners

2824
00:57:30,750 --> 00:57:31,583
are incentivized

2825
00:57:31,583 --> 00:57:32,541
to help one another

2826
00:57:32,541 --> 00:57:33,375
and to to

2827
00:57:33,375 --> 00:57:34,666
with whatever endeavors

2828
00:57:34,666 --> 00:57:35,666
they engage in.

2829
00:57:36,625 --> 00:57:38,875
And at the same time, we,

2830
00:57:38,875 --> 00:57:40,583
So and we're all incentivized

2831
00:57:40,583 --> 00:57:42,833
to help Bitcoin succeed,

2832
00:57:42,833 --> 00:57:43,791
because we know that

2833
00:57:43,791 --> 00:57:44,333
if we do,

2834
00:57:44,333 --> 00:57:44,916
we help other

2835
00:57:44,916 --> 00:57:45,750
Bitcoiners succeed

2836
00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:46,708
because we're part

2837
00:57:46,708 --> 00:57:47,541
of the same system

2838
00:57:47,541 --> 00:57:48,500
with the bitcoins,

2839
00:57:48,500 --> 00:57:49,375
and the Bitcoiners

2840
00:57:49,375 --> 00:57:50,666
are the same entity,

2841
00:57:50,666 --> 00:57:51,958
and which is what

2842
00:57:51,958 --> 00:57:52,500
which is where

2843
00:57:52,500 --> 00:57:53,750
the real mindfuck come

2844
00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:55,416
in, comes in, in my.

2845
00:57:55,416 --> 00:57:56,625
So if I have

2846
00:57:56,625 --> 00:57:57,666
a contract with you

2847
00:57:57,666 --> 00:57:58,166
and I know

2848
00:57:58,166 --> 00:57:59,458
you're another Bitcoin, or

2849
00:57:59,458 --> 00:58:00,916
I have less of an incentive

2850
00:58:00,916 --> 00:58:02,375
to screw you over

2851
00:58:02,375 --> 00:58:03,000
than I did

2852
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:04,333
on a Fiat standard.

2853
00:58:04,333 --> 00:58:05,208
So I think many

2854
00:58:05,208 --> 00:58:06,333
of these disputes

2855
00:58:06,333 --> 00:58:08,500
and many of these,

2856
00:58:08,500 --> 00:58:09,208
things that you're

2857
00:58:09,208 --> 00:58:10,000
talking about, the

2858
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:10,708
how can we make it

2859
00:58:10,708 --> 00:58:11,250
more secure.

2860
00:58:11,250 --> 00:58:12,833
And so they come,

2861
00:58:12,833 --> 00:58:14,416
they come with hyper

2862
00:58:14,416 --> 00:58:16,291
bitcoin ization automatically

2863
00:58:16,291 --> 00:58:17,250
because ironically,

2864
00:58:17,250 --> 00:58:18,166
I think there's don't

2865
00:58:18,166 --> 00:58:19,083
trust verify

2866
00:58:19,083 --> 00:58:19,916
what it leads to

2867
00:58:19,916 --> 00:58:20,541
in the long run

2868
00:58:20,541 --> 00:58:21,500
is that people actually

2869
00:58:21,500 --> 00:58:22,666
can trust each other more

2870
00:58:22,666 --> 00:58:23,458
because they know

2871
00:58:23,458 --> 00:58:25,041
that it's expensive

2872
00:58:25,041 --> 00:58:25,791
to try to cheat

2873
00:58:25,791 --> 00:58:26,833
the other guy.

2874
00:58:26,833 --> 00:58:29,250
So it's a utopian.

2875
00:58:29,250 --> 00:58:31,291
But but this is like my long

2876
00:58:31,291 --> 00:58:33,375
term outlook.

2877
00:58:33,375 --> 00:58:35,083
So it's a great outlook.

2878
00:58:35,083 --> 00:58:36,625
And I would love to say that

2879
00:58:36,625 --> 00:58:39,000
we have the ability to fully

2880
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,250
and exclusively trust

2881
00:58:40,250 --> 00:58:40,916
one another,

2882
00:58:40,916 --> 00:58:41,750
that we trust people.

2883
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:43,250
And I do think that

2884
00:58:43,250 --> 00:58:44,875
Bitcoiners are more

2885
00:58:44,875 --> 00:58:46,333
trusting of other Bitcoiners

2886
00:58:46,333 --> 00:58:46,875
than they would be

2887
00:58:46,875 --> 00:58:48,083
of anybody else.

2888
00:58:48,083 --> 00:58:48,708
So, for instance,

2889
00:58:48,708 --> 00:58:49,375
when I,

2890
00:58:49,375 --> 00:58:50,291
when I meet a startup

2891
00:58:50,291 --> 00:58:50,916
that's trying

2892
00:58:50,916 --> 00:58:51,583
to build something

2893
00:58:51,583 --> 00:58:52,166
in the Bitcoin

2894
00:58:52,166 --> 00:58:53,166
ecosystem versus

2895
00:58:53,166 --> 00:58:54,125
I get pitched something

2896
00:58:54,125 --> 00:58:55,958
that's being built on Solana,

2897
00:58:55,958 --> 00:58:56,916
I can already speak

2898
00:58:56,916 --> 00:58:58,375
to the morality

2899
00:58:58,375 --> 00:58:59,250
of any of those

2900
00:58:59,250 --> 00:59:00,041
individuals, right?

2901
00:59:00,041 --> 00:59:00,916
I can already speak

2902
00:59:00,916 --> 00:59:01,791
to the intelligence

2903
00:59:01,791 --> 00:59:02,666
of those individuals.

2904
00:59:02,666 --> 00:59:03,541
I trust the people

2905
00:59:03,541 --> 00:59:04,041
that are building

2906
00:59:04,041 --> 00:59:05,250
a Bitcoin more than I would

2907
00:59:05,250 --> 00:59:06,208
in something else.

2908
00:59:06,208 --> 00:59:07,083
Right? Yeah.

2909
00:59:08,166 --> 00:59:10,166
I, for instance, am more

2910
00:59:10,166 --> 00:59:10,708
trustworthy

2911
00:59:10,708 --> 00:59:13,708
working with people that,

2912
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,166
accept payments in Bitcoin.

2913
00:59:16,166 --> 00:59:17,333
It just makes perfect

2914
00:59:17,333 --> 00:59:18,625
sense to me, right?

2915
00:59:18,625 --> 00:59:19,916
But for me,

2916
00:59:19,916 --> 00:59:20,458
I don't

2917
00:59:20,458 --> 00:59:21,458
necessarily think that

2918
00:59:21,458 --> 00:59:23,125
that still

2919
00:59:23,125 --> 00:59:26,625
solves the issue of ownership

2920
00:59:26,625 --> 00:59:27,208
or what

2921
00:59:27,208 --> 00:59:27,750
we'll call here

2922
00:59:27,750 --> 00:59:30,333
possession rights of

2923
00:59:30,333 --> 00:59:31,250
individual assets

2924
00:59:31,250 --> 00:59:31,791
or equities,

2925
00:59:31,791 --> 00:59:32,750
which as you said,

2926
00:59:32,750 --> 00:59:34,041
are based on contracts.

2927
00:59:34,041 --> 00:59:35,750
Because

2928
00:59:35,750 --> 00:59:36,500
I've been in enough

2929
00:59:36,500 --> 00:59:39,500
disputes over

2930
00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:40,916
liquidations of,

2931
00:59:40,916 --> 00:59:41,750
companies that

2932
00:59:41,750 --> 00:59:42,500
maybe the investment

2933
00:59:42,500 --> 00:59:43,000
just didn't go

2934
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:43,250
the way

2935
00:59:43,250 --> 00:59:44,416
that they were supposed to.

2936
00:59:44,416 --> 00:59:47,541
Or you have a very activist

2937
00:59:47,541 --> 00:59:48,166
board member

2938
00:59:48,166 --> 00:59:49,291
that sits on the same company

2939
00:59:49,291 --> 00:59:50,541
that you sit on the board of,

2940
00:59:50,541 --> 00:59:52,083
or you have a founding team

2941
00:59:52,083 --> 00:59:53,250
that misappropriated

2942
00:59:53,250 --> 00:59:54,625
elements of assets

2943
00:59:54,625 --> 00:59:56,250
that I've seen other VCs

2944
00:59:56,250 --> 00:59:58,166
and other groups invest into.

2945
00:59:58,166 --> 00:59:59,500
You still do have to have

2946
00:59:59,500 --> 01:00:01,625
that big element of trust.

2947
01:00:01,625 --> 01:00:01,791
Yeah.

2948
01:00:01,791 --> 01:00:02,666
And while I do think

2949
01:00:02,666 --> 01:00:03,750
that your point of in

2950
01:00:03,750 --> 01:00:05,250
a hyper bitcoin world,

2951
01:00:06,208 --> 01:00:07,958
hyper bitcoin a world

2952
01:00:07,958 --> 01:00:09,375
that there is more trust

2953
01:00:09,375 --> 01:00:10,125
that individuals

2954
01:00:10,125 --> 01:00:11,125
can have with each other,

2955
01:00:11,125 --> 01:00:12,625
that is true,

2956
01:00:12,625 --> 01:00:14,666
but it's not unequivocal.

2957
01:00:14,666 --> 01:00:15,875
You still have to have

2958
01:00:15,875 --> 01:00:16,833
trust with each other,

2959
01:00:16,833 --> 01:00:17,750
and there are still going

2960
01:00:17,750 --> 01:00:18,833
to be people out there

2961
01:00:18,833 --> 01:00:20,833
in that hyper bitcoin world

2962
01:00:20,833 --> 01:00:22,166
that are going to fuck other

2963
01:00:22,166 --> 01:00:22,708
people over,

2964
01:00:22,708 --> 01:00:23,125
which is where

2965
01:00:23,125 --> 01:00:24,500
the courts come in.

2966
01:00:24,500 --> 01:00:25,166
Absolutely.

2967
01:00:25,166 --> 01:00:25,958
I agree,

2968
01:00:25,958 --> 01:00:27,833
but my question there is,

2969
01:00:27,833 --> 01:00:28,250
is there

2970
01:00:28,250 --> 01:00:30,125
not a world

2971
01:00:30,125 --> 01:00:31,958
that we can fathom,

2972
01:00:31,958 --> 01:00:33,291
where we don't necessarily

2973
01:00:33,291 --> 01:00:34,375
need the courts

2974
01:00:34,375 --> 01:00:37,250
for those types of disputes

2975
01:00:37,250 --> 01:00:37,750
that we don't

2976
01:00:37,750 --> 01:00:40,166
necessarily need arbitration

2977
01:00:40,166 --> 01:00:41,250
or mitigation

2978
01:00:41,250 --> 01:00:42,416
for certain disputes

2979
01:00:42,416 --> 01:00:43,208
because we're able

2980
01:00:43,208 --> 01:00:44,166
to enact them

2981
01:00:44,166 --> 01:00:45,291
in some capacity

2982
01:00:45,291 --> 01:00:46,541
on the blockchain,

2983
01:00:46,541 --> 01:00:47,458
where, for instance,

2984
01:00:47,458 --> 01:00:50,458
I can definitively show a

2985
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:51,958
ownership, right,

2986
01:00:51,958 --> 01:00:52,791
a possession, right,

2987
01:00:52,791 --> 01:00:54,125
whatever you want to call it,

2988
01:00:54,125 --> 01:00:55,250
in cash

2989
01:00:55,250 --> 01:00:56,916
flow profit

2990
01:00:56,916 --> 01:00:57,875
from a company

2991
01:00:57,875 --> 01:00:59,791
that I'm invested in.

2992
01:00:59,791 --> 01:01:00,833
Now, maybe that's the

2993
01:01:00,833 --> 01:01:02,000
so I'm maybe taking this

2994
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:02,958
on the flip side

2995
01:01:02,958 --> 01:01:04,333
to a completely different

2996
01:01:04,333 --> 01:01:06,625
utopian, manner than you are.

2997
01:01:06,625 --> 01:01:07,208
So you're in

2998
01:01:07,208 --> 01:01:08,000
you're living in this

2999
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:09,208
utopia of people

3000
01:01:09,208 --> 01:01:10,125
will understand

3001
01:01:10,125 --> 01:01:11,083
and trust one another,

3002
01:01:11,083 --> 01:01:12,916
and we can trust that trust.

3003
01:01:12,916 --> 01:01:13,791
I'm on the other side

3004
01:01:13,791 --> 01:01:14,333
going, okay,

3005
01:01:14,333 --> 01:01:15,291
I don't necessarily know

3006
01:01:15,291 --> 01:01:16,375
if I can trust that trust,

3007
01:01:16,375 --> 01:01:18,416
but hey, here's a

3008
01:01:18,416 --> 01:01:20,208
technological utopia

3009
01:01:20,208 --> 01:01:20,916
that allows me

3010
01:01:20,916 --> 01:01:22,416
to not have to trust anybody

3011
01:01:22,416 --> 01:01:24,541
in that financial ecosystem.

3012
01:01:24,541 --> 01:01:25,541
Okay, so

3013
01:01:25,541 --> 01:01:27,000
the answer to that is,

3014
01:01:28,250 --> 01:01:29,541
pretty long, but,

3015
01:01:29,541 --> 01:01:31,041
I'll do the tldr.

3016
01:01:31,041 --> 01:01:31,416
Like,

3017
01:01:31,416 --> 01:01:32,291
like I said before,

3018
01:01:32,291 --> 01:01:33,625
you can already

3019
01:01:33,625 --> 01:01:35,416
choose to use another judge,

3020
01:01:35,416 --> 01:01:36,208
the one that the

3021
01:01:36,208 --> 01:01:37,250
government appointed,

3022
01:01:37,250 --> 01:01:39,166
if you choose to use,

3023
01:01:39,166 --> 01:01:40,750
so a libertarian law firm

3024
01:01:40,750 --> 01:01:42,000
that that allows you

3025
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:43,791
to settle disputes

3026
01:01:43,791 --> 01:01:44,708
with one another

3027
01:01:44,708 --> 01:01:46,416
without having anyone else

3028
01:01:46,416 --> 01:01:47,750
meddle with them.

3029
01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:50,416
So you can already do that.

3030
01:01:50,416 --> 01:01:52,500
And you could do that.

3031
01:01:52,500 --> 01:01:54,208
You could agree that, okay,

3032
01:01:54,208 --> 01:01:55,791
we're going to use this token

3033
01:01:55,791 --> 01:01:56,708
on this blockchain

3034
01:01:56,708 --> 01:01:58,083
to settle blah, blah, blah.

3035
01:01:58,083 --> 01:01:58,875
What I just want

3036
01:01:58,875 --> 01:02:00,333
to make people aware of

3037
01:02:00,333 --> 01:02:01,375
is that that adds

3038
01:02:01,375 --> 01:02:02,666
absolutely zero

3039
01:02:02,666 --> 01:02:03,208
in terms of

3040
01:02:03,208 --> 01:02:04,916
security of, of or,

3041
01:02:04,916 --> 01:02:06,041
or transparency.

3042
01:02:06,041 --> 01:02:07,166
Since that blockchain

3043
01:02:07,166 --> 01:02:09,000
is inherently centralized.

3044
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:10,541
Because it's not Bitcoin.

3045
01:02:10,541 --> 01:02:12,208
So it can be tampered with.

3046
01:02:12,208 --> 01:02:13,708
So I would not advise

3047
01:02:13,708 --> 01:02:14,875
people to do that.

3048
01:02:14,875 --> 01:02:15,333
However,

3049
01:02:15,333 --> 01:02:15,958
I have nothing

3050
01:02:15,958 --> 01:02:17,500
morally against people

3051
01:02:17,500 --> 01:02:19,125
making bad decisions

3052
01:02:19,125 --> 01:02:20,541
by their own volition

3053
01:02:20,541 --> 01:02:22,750
and agreeing to stupid stuff

3054
01:02:22,750 --> 01:02:24,083
like go ahead and do that.

3055
01:02:24,083 --> 01:02:24,750
Like go ahead

3056
01:02:24,750 --> 01:02:25,750
and be a hero. Honest.

3057
01:02:25,750 --> 01:02:27,291
If you think that's clever,

3058
01:02:27,291 --> 01:02:28,458
like I don't care

3059
01:02:28,458 --> 01:02:29,541
as long as it doesn't hurt

3060
01:02:29,541 --> 01:02:30,625
anyone else.

3061
01:02:30,625 --> 01:02:33,083
But my role here as like,

3062
01:02:33,083 --> 01:02:34,083
still, I can

3063
01:02:34,083 --> 01:02:36,083
I can tolerate stuff

3064
01:02:36,083 --> 01:02:37,375
but still disagree with it.

3065
01:02:37,375 --> 01:02:38,750
So I don't think

3066
01:02:38,750 --> 01:02:40,083
there should be regulations

3067
01:02:40,083 --> 01:02:42,208
around cryptos or whatever.

3068
01:02:42,208 --> 01:02:44,083
I think people should be

3069
01:02:44,083 --> 01:02:45,708
free to go to the casino

3070
01:02:45,708 --> 01:02:46,958
and lose all their money.

3071
01:02:46,958 --> 01:02:48,208
That should be up to each

3072
01:02:48,208 --> 01:02:50,041
and every individual.

3073
01:02:50,041 --> 01:02:51,208
So I nothing morally

3074
01:02:51,208 --> 01:02:52,208
against that.

3075
01:02:52,208 --> 01:02:53,583
That's being the case.

3076
01:02:53,583 --> 01:02:54,750
What I have something

3077
01:02:54,750 --> 01:02:56,541
morally against is

3078
01:02:56,541 --> 01:02:57,458
is the scammers

3079
01:02:57,458 --> 01:02:58,791
themselves like people

3080
01:02:58,791 --> 01:03:00,416
trying to scam other people.

3081
01:03:00,416 --> 01:03:01,708
And I think anything

3082
01:03:01,708 --> 01:03:02,875
on the blockchain

3083
01:03:02,875 --> 01:03:03,583
that isn't

3084
01:03:03,583 --> 01:03:05,208
the Satoshi is a scam

3085
01:03:05,208 --> 01:03:06,708
by, by its very definition,

3086
01:03:06,708 --> 01:03:08,000
because it's the only chain

3087
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:09,875
that is decentralized,

3088
01:03:09,875 --> 01:03:10,666
and it's the only

3089
01:03:10,666 --> 01:03:12,583
thing on that chain that has

3090
01:03:12,583 --> 01:03:13,208
that actually

3091
01:03:13,208 --> 01:03:14,333
has anything to do

3092
01:03:14,333 --> 01:03:15,958
with the incentive structure

3093
01:03:15,958 --> 01:03:17,000
of the chain.

3094
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:18,250
So so that's why

3095
01:03:18,250 --> 01:03:19,541
I'm adamantly

3096
01:03:19,541 --> 01:03:21,500
against every other

3097
01:03:21,500 --> 01:03:23,125
quote unquote use case.

3098
01:03:23,125 --> 01:03:26,125
So I see, like, why not just,

3099
01:03:26,750 --> 01:03:28,375
make your own form of equity?

3100
01:03:28,375 --> 01:03:29,958
Forget about the blockchain

3101
01:03:29,958 --> 01:03:30,500
bullshit.

3102
01:03:30,500 --> 01:03:31,583
Just make your own

3103
01:03:31,583 --> 01:03:32,875
contract and, and

3104
01:03:33,833 --> 01:03:35,166
appoint,

3105
01:03:35,166 --> 01:03:37,500
a lawyer, the,

3106
01:03:37,500 --> 01:03:38,666
a libertarian lawyer.

3107
01:03:38,666 --> 01:03:39,375
The thing is,

3108
01:03:39,375 --> 01:03:42,083
once you sign that contract,

3109
01:03:42,083 --> 01:03:42,916
one party

3110
01:03:42,916 --> 01:03:43,708
could still go

3111
01:03:43,708 --> 01:03:44,708
to the government and say,

3112
01:03:44,708 --> 01:03:45,791
I got screwed over.

3113
01:03:45,791 --> 01:03:46,250
And so

3114
01:03:46,250 --> 01:03:46,875
that's exactly

3115
01:03:46,875 --> 01:03:47,458
what I was going.

3116
01:03:47,458 --> 01:03:48,625
That's that's the point.

3117
01:03:48,625 --> 01:03:50,083
Like, we're still living

3118
01:03:50,083 --> 01:03:50,791
in this world

3119
01:03:50,791 --> 01:03:51,916
where the legacy system

3120
01:03:51,916 --> 01:03:53,250
still exists,

3121
01:03:53,250 --> 01:03:54,208
and it's very

3122
01:03:54,208 --> 01:03:55,250
hard to get around that.

3123
01:03:55,250 --> 01:03:56,083
And I don't think

3124
01:03:56,083 --> 01:03:56,958
a blockchain solves

3125
01:03:56,958 --> 01:03:57,500
any of that,

3126
01:03:57,500 --> 01:03:58,416
because I'm still going

3127
01:03:58,416 --> 01:03:59,458
to have to ask

3128
01:03:59,458 --> 01:04:00,333
at one point

3129
01:04:00,333 --> 01:04:02,000
where I'm super disappointed

3130
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:02,791
because Vitalik

3131
01:04:02,791 --> 01:04:04,000
took all my money.

3132
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:04,583
I'm still going

3133
01:04:04,583 --> 01:04:05,208
to have to prove

3134
01:04:05,208 --> 01:04:06,416
that in court,

3135
01:04:06,416 --> 01:04:07,583
and there's still a judge

3136
01:04:07,583 --> 01:04:08,875
that's going to have to

3137
01:04:08,875 --> 01:04:09,875
to make a verdict.

3138
01:04:09,875 --> 01:04:11,333
As long as I live in a

3139
01:04:11,333 --> 01:04:12,625
in a world where governments

3140
01:04:12,625 --> 01:04:13,708
exist and I have a gun

3141
01:04:13,708 --> 01:04:14,333
to my head,

3142
01:04:14,333 --> 01:04:15,250
every time I don't pay

3143
01:04:15,250 --> 01:04:16,250
my taxes,

3144
01:04:16,250 --> 01:04:17,250
I'm still

3145
01:04:17,250 --> 01:04:18,583
I'm still beholden to them.

3146
01:04:18,583 --> 01:04:19,708
And no blockchain

3147
01:04:19,708 --> 01:04:20,208
in the world

3148
01:04:20,208 --> 01:04:21,666
can fix that problem

3149
01:04:21,666 --> 01:04:22,958
except the time chain,

3150
01:04:22,958 --> 01:04:24,375
which can allow us

3151
01:04:24,375 --> 01:04:25,041
to do

3152
01:04:25,041 --> 01:04:26,250
to go on with our day

3153
01:04:26,250 --> 01:04:27,125
and do our business

3154
01:04:27,125 --> 01:04:29,416
without them having any,

3155
01:04:29,416 --> 01:04:30,416
like, it's a tool.

3156
01:04:30,416 --> 01:04:31,375
That's all Bitcoin is.

3157
01:04:31,375 --> 01:04:32,416
It's a, it's a tool

3158
01:04:32,416 --> 01:04:34,500
for the peaceful revolution.

3159
01:04:34,500 --> 01:04:35,500
A shield against,

3160
01:04:35,500 --> 01:04:36,583
like, its armor

3161
01:04:36,583 --> 01:04:38,708
against this weapon of threat

3162
01:04:38,708 --> 01:04:39,958
that they're using to

3163
01:04:39,958 --> 01:04:41,291
to extort us.

3164
01:04:41,291 --> 01:04:42,458
Like, that's, that's what

3165
01:04:42,458 --> 01:04:43,375
that's how I view it.

3166
01:04:43,375 --> 01:04:46,541
And that's why I don't think

3167
01:04:46,541 --> 01:04:47,666
any other blockchain

3168
01:04:47,666 --> 01:04:48,625
can come

3169
01:04:48,625 --> 01:04:50,375
at the end of the day, help.

3170
01:04:50,375 --> 01:04:52,000
Neither in the short

3171
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:52,625
term, medium

3172
01:04:52,625 --> 01:04:53,500
term or long term

3173
01:04:53,500 --> 01:04:54,541
with any of this stuff.

3174
01:04:54,541 --> 01:04:56,333
I, I think that it's

3175
01:04:56,333 --> 01:04:57,458
a waste of time

3176
01:04:57,458 --> 01:04:58,458
to go down that road.

3177
01:04:58,458 --> 01:04:59,083
That's,

3178
01:04:59,083 --> 01:04:59,916
because I think it's a

3179
01:04:59,916 --> 01:05:01,458
nothing burger.

3180
01:05:01,458 --> 01:05:02,958
I so I don't disagree

3181
01:05:02,958 --> 01:05:03,416
when it comes

3182
01:05:03,416 --> 01:05:04,625
to all of the other

3183
01:05:04,625 --> 01:05:05,458
layer ones

3184
01:05:05,458 --> 01:05:06,458
or whatever we conceive

3185
01:05:06,458 --> 01:05:07,291
of as blockchains

3186
01:05:07,291 --> 01:05:08,041
and crypto assets

3187
01:05:08,041 --> 01:05:09,458
that exist today.

3188
01:05:09,458 --> 01:05:11,500
I am personally very bullish

3189
01:05:11,500 --> 01:05:13,041
on some of the Bitcoin deltas

3190
01:05:13,041 --> 01:05:13,666
that we're starting

3191
01:05:13,666 --> 01:05:14,583
to see to fruition

3192
01:05:14,583 --> 01:05:15,625
or come to fruition.

3193
01:05:15,625 --> 01:05:18,541
I'm very bullish on tether,

3194
01:05:18,541 --> 01:05:19,500
exploring ways

3195
01:05:19,500 --> 01:05:21,041
that they'll be able to

3196
01:05:21,041 --> 01:05:22,500
leverage elements of Bitcoin

3197
01:05:22,500 --> 01:05:24,458
security and decentralization

3198
01:05:24,458 --> 01:05:25,958
to enable

3199
01:05:25,958 --> 01:05:27,000
tether transactions.

3200
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:27,791
I would much rather

3201
01:05:27,791 --> 01:05:30,416
see tether exist on Bitcoin

3202
01:05:30,416 --> 01:05:33,500
than on Solana or Tron

3203
01:05:33,500 --> 01:05:34,250
or Ethereum

3204
01:05:34,250 --> 01:05:34,916
or anything like I think.

3205
01:05:34,916 --> 01:05:35,125
I think

3206
01:05:35,125 --> 01:05:35,916
the majority of tether

3207
01:05:35,916 --> 01:05:37,375
is on Tron right now, right?

3208
01:05:37,375 --> 01:05:39,000
And that's probably

3209
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:39,625
God knows what

3210
01:05:39,625 --> 01:05:40,750
Justin Sun's doing money

3211
01:05:40,750 --> 01:05:42,708
laundering wise, right?

3212
01:05:42,708 --> 01:05:43,875
I would much rather see

3213
01:05:43,875 --> 01:05:46,291
all of this on Bitcoin.

3214
01:05:46,291 --> 01:05:47,333
That's why I'd rather see

3215
01:05:47,333 --> 01:05:48,250
capital markets

3216
01:05:48,250 --> 01:05:49,375
trading on bitcoin

3217
01:05:49,375 --> 01:05:49,958
relative

3218
01:05:49,958 --> 01:05:51,416
to trading on the NYSE

3219
01:05:51,416 --> 01:05:52,916
or on the Nasdaq.

3220
01:05:52,916 --> 01:05:53,625
That's where I would

3221
01:05:53,625 --> 01:05:54,416
rather see

3222
01:05:54,416 --> 01:05:55,500
equity certificates.

3223
01:05:55,500 --> 01:05:55,791
That's where

3224
01:05:55,791 --> 01:05:56,958
I would rather see

3225
01:05:56,958 --> 01:05:58,125
marriage contracts.

3226
01:05:58,125 --> 01:05:58,916
I would rather see

3227
01:05:58,916 --> 01:06:00,416
arbitration and dispute

3228
01:06:00,416 --> 01:06:01,791
resolution enacted

3229
01:06:01,791 --> 01:06:03,125
in a technological way

3230
01:06:03,125 --> 01:06:05,375
on Bitcoin, the same way.

3231
01:06:05,375 --> 01:06:06,250
Layer two

3232
01:06:06,250 --> 01:06:07,708
I agree, if you can do it

3233
01:06:07,708 --> 01:06:08,833
completely on a layer two,

3234
01:06:08,833 --> 01:06:09,750
but not on the base

3235
01:06:09,750 --> 01:06:10,791
layer, like no.

3236
01:06:10,791 --> 01:06:11,250
So that's a

3237
01:06:11,250 --> 01:06:12,000
that's not what I'm speaking.

3238
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:12,833
I'm not on the base layer.

3239
01:06:12,833 --> 01:06:13,500
I don't think

3240
01:06:13,500 --> 01:06:14,750
you're ever going to

3241
01:06:14,750 --> 01:06:15,208
I mean, we're going

3242
01:06:15,208 --> 01:06:15,833
to have to see

3243
01:06:15,833 --> 01:06:16,500
you would have to see

3244
01:06:16,500 --> 01:06:17,416
so many forks

3245
01:06:17,416 --> 01:06:18,166
of the core code

3246
01:06:18,166 --> 01:06:19,625
to enable that on Bitcoin.

3247
01:06:19,625 --> 01:06:20,791
It would completely destroy

3248
01:06:20,791 --> 01:06:22,416
what Bitcoin is today.

3249
01:06:22,416 --> 01:06:24,125
Bitcoin has to remain

3250
01:06:24,125 --> 01:06:25,916
the money system.

3251
01:06:25,916 --> 01:06:26,500
Yeah.

3252
01:06:26,500 --> 01:06:27,625
It has to remain the world's

3253
01:06:27,625 --> 01:06:29,208
most perfect form of money.

3254
01:06:29,208 --> 01:06:30,416
And then on top of that,

3255
01:06:30,416 --> 01:06:31,375
if you can have layer

3256
01:06:31,375 --> 01:06:33,666
twos that don't sacrifice

3257
01:06:33,666 --> 01:06:35,083
too many of the elements

3258
01:06:35,083 --> 01:06:36,416
of security

3259
01:06:36,416 --> 01:06:37,916
and decentralization,

3260
01:06:37,916 --> 01:06:39,416
but offer utility

3261
01:06:39,416 --> 01:06:40,291
and flexibility

3262
01:06:40,291 --> 01:06:41,458
and scalability. Yeah,

3263
01:06:42,416 --> 01:06:43,625
that's in my world,

3264
01:06:43,625 --> 01:06:44,583
the perfect scenario.

3265
01:06:44,583 --> 01:06:45,125
And I think

3266
01:06:45,125 --> 01:06:46,125
we're going to see over

3267
01:06:46,125 --> 01:06:47,583
the next few years

3268
01:06:47,583 --> 01:06:48,833
that come to fruition.

3269
01:06:48,833 --> 01:06:50,041
I hope it does.

3270
01:06:50,041 --> 01:06:50,666
I think

3271
01:06:50,666 --> 01:06:51,208
because when

3272
01:06:51,208 --> 01:06:53,250
tether talks about,

3273
01:06:53,250 --> 01:06:54,083
tether on Bitcoin,

3274
01:06:54,083 --> 01:06:54,625
they're actually

3275
01:06:54,625 --> 01:06:55,083
talking about

3276
01:06:55,083 --> 01:06:55,916
tether on liquid,

3277
01:06:55,916 --> 01:06:56,333
aren't they?

3278
01:06:56,333 --> 01:06:58,208
Or on lightning somehow.

3279
01:06:58,208 --> 01:06:59,583
So I, I don't know

3280
01:06:59,583 --> 01:07:00,291
that there's a couple

3281
01:07:00,291 --> 01:07:01,416
of protocols. Yeah.

3282
01:07:01,416 --> 01:07:02,208
So I know there's a couple

3283
01:07:02,208 --> 01:07:03,166
of protocols out there

3284
01:07:03,166 --> 01:07:04,458
that tether has

3285
01:07:04,458 --> 01:07:06,708
been working with. Yeah.

3286
01:07:06,708 --> 01:07:08,083
We'll see what happens.

3287
01:07:08,083 --> 01:07:09,083
But I could see it

3288
01:07:09,083 --> 01:07:09,750
being liquid.

3289
01:07:09,750 --> 01:07:12,750
I could see it being,

3290
01:07:12,875 --> 01:07:13,875
and they were talking

3291
01:07:13,875 --> 01:07:15,041
about doing it with taproot.

3292
01:07:15,041 --> 01:07:16,500
I think, at one point

3293
01:07:16,500 --> 01:07:18,041
in time,

3294
01:07:18,041 --> 01:07:18,791
I don't know. We'll see.

3295
01:07:18,791 --> 01:07:19,166
It's it's

3296
01:07:19,166 --> 01:07:19,791
going to be exciting.

3297
01:07:19,791 --> 01:07:19,916
I mean,

3298
01:07:19,916 --> 01:07:21,041
they're able to do that

3299
01:07:21,041 --> 01:07:21,541
liquid.

3300
01:07:21,541 --> 01:07:23,666
Liquid is, like,

3301
01:07:23,666 --> 01:07:24,625
for better or worse.

3302
01:07:24,625 --> 01:07:26,500
I think that's a good

3303
01:07:26,500 --> 01:07:27,166
trade off,

3304
01:07:27,166 --> 01:07:28,208
if any, in the,

3305
01:07:28,208 --> 01:07:29,333
in the coin space.

3306
01:07:29,333 --> 01:07:30,208
Of course it's not.

3307
01:07:30,208 --> 01:07:31,791
It's not liquid. Liquid.

3308
01:07:31,791 --> 01:07:32,666
I don't view

3309
01:07:32,666 --> 01:07:33,625
that as a shit coin.

3310
01:07:33,625 --> 01:07:34,083
I view it

3311
01:07:34,083 --> 01:07:35,375
as, Bitcoin

3312
01:07:35,375 --> 01:07:35,875
with a

3313
01:07:35,875 --> 01:07:38,250
slightly worse security

3314
01:07:38,250 --> 01:07:39,291
or lightning

3315
01:07:39,291 --> 01:07:41,041
with slightly worse security.

3316
01:07:41,041 --> 01:07:42,458
And it's still useful

3317
01:07:42,458 --> 01:07:43,208
to a certain extent.

3318
01:07:43,208 --> 01:07:44,000
I think the

3319
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:45,875
that you have to start

3320
01:07:45,875 --> 01:07:47,500
thinking in, in layers

3321
01:07:47,500 --> 01:07:48,500
and in, yeah.

3322
01:07:48,500 --> 01:07:49,208
But this,

3323
01:07:49,208 --> 01:07:51,125
this kind of way of getting,

3324
01:07:51,125 --> 01:07:52,791
I don't know where

3325
01:07:52,791 --> 01:07:54,083
I stand on tether

3326
01:07:54,083 --> 01:07:55,250
in the long run being,

3327
01:07:56,208 --> 01:07:58,125
being a good or a bad thing.

3328
01:07:58,125 --> 01:07:58,916
Another reason

3329
01:07:58,916 --> 01:07:59,666
I'm conflicted

3330
01:07:59,666 --> 01:08:00,750
is that I don't know

3331
01:08:00,750 --> 01:08:02,625
if it prolongs the fiat scam

3332
01:08:02,625 --> 01:08:04,708
or if it accelerates hyper

3333
01:08:04,708 --> 01:08:05,625
because it's

3334
01:08:05,625 --> 01:08:07,291
so it absolutely prolongs

3335
01:08:07,291 --> 01:08:08,541
the fiat scam.

3336
01:08:08,541 --> 01:08:10,500
But you and I,

3337
01:08:10,500 --> 01:08:12,000
we come from the western side

3338
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:12,583
of the world, right?

3339
01:08:12,583 --> 01:08:12,916
We're from

3340
01:08:12,916 --> 01:08:14,500
Western civilization.

3341
01:08:14,500 --> 01:08:15,750
So the way that

3342
01:08:15,750 --> 01:08:16,916
I think about it is.

3343
01:08:16,916 --> 01:08:17,666
Okay, fine.

3344
01:08:17,666 --> 01:08:19,916
Tether for tether,

3345
01:08:19,916 --> 01:08:20,125
at least

3346
01:08:20,125 --> 01:08:21,041
for the United States.

3347
01:08:21,041 --> 01:08:22,916
I think the US government

3348
01:08:22,916 --> 01:08:23,750
should be Tether's

3349
01:08:23,750 --> 01:08:25,041
absolute best friend.

3350
01:08:25,041 --> 01:08:25,916
The reason being

3351
01:08:25,916 --> 01:08:26,666
is that tether,

3352
01:08:26,666 --> 01:08:29,083
because it will create a

3353
01:08:29,083 --> 01:08:30,750
digital transparent

3354
01:08:30,750 --> 01:08:31,708
and on them know

3355
01:08:31,708 --> 01:08:32,208
I transparent.

3356
01:08:32,208 --> 01:08:32,458
I don't want

3357
01:08:32,458 --> 01:08:33,041
to use that word,

3358
01:08:33,041 --> 01:08:33,916
but because it creates

3359
01:08:33,916 --> 01:08:35,000
a digital dollar

3360
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,250
that transpires borders

3361
01:08:37,250 --> 01:08:38,000
and could be used

3362
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:39,291
by anybody at any point

3363
01:08:39,291 --> 01:08:40,208
anywhere in the world,

3364
01:08:40,208 --> 01:08:41,458
as long as they have a device

3365
01:08:41,458 --> 01:08:42,250
and connectivity

3366
01:08:42,250 --> 01:08:43,500
to the internet.

3367
01:08:43,500 --> 01:08:45,291
Tether is the one true way

3368
01:08:45,291 --> 01:08:46,166
the US dollar,

3369
01:08:46,166 --> 01:08:47,125
I think, can

3370
01:08:47,125 --> 01:08:48,375
continue its position

3371
01:08:48,375 --> 01:08:49,750
as the global fiat

3372
01:08:49,750 --> 01:08:51,625
reserve currency.

3373
01:08:51,625 --> 01:08:52,041
Will it be

3374
01:08:52,041 --> 01:08:53,125
the global reserve currency?

3375
01:08:53,125 --> 01:08:53,833
I hope not,

3376
01:08:53,833 --> 01:08:54,125
I hope

3377
01:08:54,125 --> 01:08:55,583
that does become Bitcoin,

3378
01:08:55,583 --> 01:08:56,625
but as the fiat

3379
01:08:56,625 --> 01:08:57,791
reserve currency

3380
01:08:57,791 --> 01:08:58,791
that people

3381
01:08:58,791 --> 01:08:59,875
from all over the world

3382
01:08:59,875 --> 01:09:01,375
transact in,

3383
01:09:01,375 --> 01:09:02,458
maybe that does

3384
01:09:02,458 --> 01:09:03,375
stick around

3385
01:09:03,375 --> 01:09:04,541
a little bit while longer,

3386
01:09:04,541 --> 01:09:06,583
because tether exists

3387
01:09:06,583 --> 01:09:07,833
now and it will make them

3388
01:09:07,833 --> 01:09:09,208
in the West a powerful.

3389
01:09:09,208 --> 01:09:10,291
Yeah, well,

3390
01:09:10,291 --> 01:09:11,000
it makes America

3391
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:12,083
even more powerful.

3392
01:09:12,083 --> 01:09:13,041
And I don't think

3393
01:09:13,041 --> 01:09:14,125
the government is smart

3394
01:09:14,125 --> 01:09:15,416
enough to see that.

3395
01:09:15,416 --> 01:09:16,041
But I've been saying

3396
01:09:16,041 --> 01:09:16,833
this for years.

3397
01:09:16,833 --> 01:09:17,541
If you are

3398
01:09:17,541 --> 01:09:18,958
the U.S government,

3399
01:09:18,958 --> 01:09:20,541
you don't go after tether

3400
01:09:20,541 --> 01:09:22,041
and try to arrest the team

3401
01:09:22,041 --> 01:09:22,708
behind tether

3402
01:09:22,708 --> 01:09:23,875
and put them behind bars

3403
01:09:23,875 --> 01:09:25,208
for what you allege is money

3404
01:09:25,208 --> 01:09:25,708
laundering

3405
01:09:25,708 --> 01:09:27,000
or anything like that,

3406
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:27,916
you thank the

3407
01:09:27,916 --> 01:09:29,250
fuck out of them

3408
01:09:29,250 --> 01:09:30,291
for doing more

3409
01:09:30,291 --> 01:09:31,166
for the benefit

3410
01:09:31,166 --> 01:09:32,416
of the US dollar

3411
01:09:32,416 --> 01:09:33,083
than the government

3412
01:09:33,083 --> 01:09:35,041
has for the last 100 years.

3413
01:09:36,208 --> 01:09:37,166
But we'll see what happens.

3414
01:09:37,166 --> 01:09:39,625
I don't know,

3415
01:09:39,625 --> 01:09:40,958
there's so much

3416
01:09:40,958 --> 01:09:42,000
there's so much comfort

3417
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:42,875
out there about tether,

3418
01:09:42,875 --> 01:09:45,208
but yeah. So on one hand.

3419
01:09:45,208 --> 01:09:47,666
But here's where

3420
01:09:47,666 --> 01:09:49,500
here's where I like tether.

3421
01:09:49,500 --> 01:09:51,000
It's because you meet people

3422
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:52,125
from Colombia,

3423
01:09:52,125 --> 01:09:53,375
meet people from Venezuela,

3424
01:09:53,375 --> 01:09:55,041
you meet people from Africa,

3425
01:09:55,041 --> 01:09:56,458
and they don't

3426
01:09:56,458 --> 01:09:58,250
necessarily need Bitcoin.

3427
01:09:58,250 --> 01:09:59,541
They're not there necessarily

3428
01:09:59,541 --> 01:10:01,083
to generate wealth.

3429
01:10:01,083 --> 01:10:02,125
They just want something

3430
01:10:02,125 --> 01:10:02,916
more stable

3431
01:10:02,916 --> 01:10:04,250
than their own currency.

3432
01:10:04,250 --> 01:10:06,500
And the US dollar represents

3433
01:10:06,500 --> 01:10:07,791
that very well for them.

3434
01:10:07,791 --> 01:10:08,250
Like okay,

3435
01:10:08,250 --> 01:10:08,791
you and I can

3436
01:10:08,791 --> 01:10:09,666
have a discussion

3437
01:10:09,666 --> 01:10:10,333
about the merits

3438
01:10:10,333 --> 01:10:11,250
of the US dollar.

3439
01:10:11,250 --> 01:10:11,583
I think

3440
01:10:11,583 --> 01:10:13,166
you and I both hate it.

3441
01:10:13,166 --> 01:10:14,666
But for these people,

3442
01:10:14,666 --> 01:10:15,375
if they're really

3443
01:10:15,375 --> 01:10:16,583
only getting

3444
01:10:16,583 --> 01:10:17,000
I mean, so

3445
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:18,000
if the U.S government says

3446
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:19,500
there's 3% inflation

3447
01:10:19,500 --> 01:10:20,583
this year, the truth is it's

3448
01:10:20,583 --> 01:10:21,208
probably more like

3449
01:10:21,208 --> 01:10:22,708
10% inflation.

3450
01:10:22,708 --> 01:10:23,750
But hey, 10%

3451
01:10:23,750 --> 01:10:25,375
inflation is wonderful

3452
01:10:25,375 --> 01:10:26,250
for people

3453
01:10:26,250 --> 01:10:26,541
that live

3454
01:10:26,541 --> 01:10:27,750
in that area of the world,

3455
01:10:27,750 --> 01:10:28,958
which is an awful thing

3456
01:10:28,958 --> 01:10:29,458
to say,

3457
01:10:29,458 --> 01:10:29,750
but it's

3458
01:10:29,750 --> 01:10:31,333
the unfortunate truth.

3459
01:10:31,333 --> 01:10:32,583
But how about deflation?

3460
01:10:32,583 --> 01:10:35,041
Like this is this is why it's

3461
01:10:35,041 --> 01:10:35,583
why I'm

3462
01:10:35,583 --> 01:10:36,750
so conflicted about it.

3463
01:10:36,750 --> 01:10:37,708
Because while

3464
01:10:37,708 --> 01:10:39,375
I also think that the US

3465
01:10:39,375 --> 01:10:41,000
dollar is the least worst

3466
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:42,375
of the fiat currencies,

3467
01:10:44,250 --> 01:10:46,583
it's still a fucking scam

3468
01:10:46,583 --> 01:10:46,958
like this.

3469
01:10:46,958 --> 01:10:48,375
And these people

3470
01:10:48,375 --> 01:10:49,791
that you're talking about in

3471
01:10:49,791 --> 01:10:51,208
in the poor

3472
01:10:51,208 --> 01:10:52,833
people in poor countries,

3473
01:10:52,833 --> 01:10:53,791
they are the ones

3474
01:10:53,791 --> 01:10:54,500
being scammed

3475
01:10:54,500 --> 01:10:55,791
the most by it, like,

3476
01:10:55,791 --> 01:10:57,000
and, they're,

3477
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:58,166
and if they all went

3478
01:10:58,166 --> 01:10:59,500
to a Bitcoin standard

3479
01:10:59,500 --> 01:11:01,416
instead of, of going

3480
01:11:01,416 --> 01:11:02,625
via tether

3481
01:11:02,625 --> 01:11:03,916
on to go on to

3482
01:11:03,916 --> 01:11:05,458
a dollar standard first,

3483
01:11:05,458 --> 01:11:06,833
they would all be better off.

3484
01:11:06,833 --> 01:11:08,000
Like everything would work

3485
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:08,375
better

3486
01:11:08,375 --> 01:11:09,583
if they just adopted

3487
01:11:09,583 --> 01:11:10,583
the because

3488
01:11:10,583 --> 01:11:12,208
Bitcoin standard directly.

3489
01:11:12,208 --> 01:11:12,625
That's why

3490
01:11:12,625 --> 01:11:13,791
El Salvador is booming

3491
01:11:13,791 --> 01:11:14,708
like it's exact.

3492
01:11:14,708 --> 01:11:16,166
Much better for them.

3493
01:11:16,166 --> 01:11:18,041
So so in that sense like

3494
01:11:18,041 --> 01:11:20,208
yeah tether is better than

3495
01:11:20,208 --> 01:11:21,458
all the other shit coins,

3496
01:11:21,458 --> 01:11:22,708
including all the other

3497
01:11:22,708 --> 01:11:23,916
fiat coins,

3498
01:11:23,916 --> 01:11:24,750
including the dollar.

3499
01:11:24,750 --> 01:11:25,583
Because tether

3500
01:11:25,583 --> 01:11:26,375
is digital dollar,

3501
01:11:26,375 --> 01:11:27,166
but Bitcoin is

3502
01:11:27,166 --> 01:11:28,208
still better than tether,

3503
01:11:28,208 --> 01:11:30,375
so like man, oh 100%.

3504
01:11:30,375 --> 01:11:31,625
But this is where,

3505
01:11:31,625 --> 01:11:32,000
this is where

3506
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:33,833
I'm confused because.

3507
01:11:33,833 --> 01:11:35,375
So for instance, tether,

3508
01:11:35,375 --> 01:11:35,875
they're doing

3509
01:11:35,875 --> 01:11:36,666
their headquarters

3510
01:11:36,666 --> 01:11:38,625
in El Salvador now. Yes.

3511
01:11:38,625 --> 01:11:38,875
Yeah.

3512
01:11:38,875 --> 01:11:40,458
So it's going to be in

3513
01:11:40,458 --> 01:11:41,958
Bitcoin nation.

3514
01:11:41,958 --> 01:11:42,416
Now.

3515
01:11:42,416 --> 01:11:44,250
Even Bukele has kind of said

3516
01:11:44,250 --> 01:11:44,833
and I don't know

3517
01:11:44,833 --> 01:11:46,541
if he was strong armed

3518
01:11:46,541 --> 01:11:47,458
by global powers

3519
01:11:47,458 --> 01:11:48,666
that be into saying this

3520
01:11:48,666 --> 01:11:50,500
or if it's the actual truth.

3521
01:11:50,500 --> 01:11:50,875
For instance,

3522
01:11:50,875 --> 01:11:52,583
I was in El Salvador,

3523
01:11:52,583 --> 01:11:53,458
in January.

3524
01:11:53,458 --> 01:11:55,166
I was there for a conference.

3525
01:11:55,166 --> 01:11:56,250
And what were you at

3526
01:11:56,250 --> 01:11:57,958
the Palm Beach conference?

3527
01:11:57,958 --> 01:11:59,041
No, I wasn't at the plan

3528
01:11:59,041 --> 01:12:00,000
B conference.

3529
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:00,875
So I didn't

3530
01:12:00,875 --> 01:12:01,708
see you there, though.

3531
01:12:01,708 --> 01:12:02,583
So, like, I was,

3532
01:12:02,583 --> 01:12:04,083
I was there, and,

3533
01:12:04,083 --> 01:12:05,250
Oh, are you. Dude, you're.

3534
01:12:05,250 --> 01:12:05,916
No, I

3535
01:12:05,916 --> 01:12:07,208
just came back a week ago

3536
01:12:08,541 --> 01:12:09,208
now, so I was there

3537
01:12:09,208 --> 01:12:10,875
two weeks earlier.

3538
01:12:10,875 --> 01:12:11,750
Max and Stacy

3539
01:12:11,750 --> 01:12:13,125
were hosting a pseudo.

3540
01:12:13,125 --> 01:12:14,125
Oh, the going conference

3541
01:12:14,125 --> 01:12:14,958
with the golf tournament.

3542
01:12:14,958 --> 01:12:16,583
Yeah, yeah.

3543
01:12:16,583 --> 01:12:17,166
So I played in the

3544
01:12:17,166 --> 01:12:17,791
golf tournament.

3545
01:12:17,791 --> 01:12:18,666
Yeah, yeah,

3546
01:12:18,666 --> 01:12:19,791
I said no to that

3547
01:12:19,791 --> 01:12:21,000
because I don't play golf.

3548
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:21,958
I was in Colombia

3549
01:12:21,958 --> 01:12:22,750
just before that

3550
01:12:22,750 --> 01:12:24,000
when the golf tournament was,

3551
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:25,833
I think, wonderful.

3552
01:12:25,833 --> 01:12:26,291
Oh, you should have

3553
01:12:26,291 --> 01:12:26,750
try to play

3554
01:12:26,750 --> 01:12:27,500
in the golf tournament

3555
01:12:27,500 --> 01:12:28,250
if you,

3556
01:12:28,250 --> 01:12:29,875
got a hole in one on the 17th

3557
01:12:29,875 --> 01:12:30,833
or 16th hole,

3558
01:12:30,833 --> 01:12:31,291
you would have won

3559
01:12:31,291 --> 01:12:32,875
one of my bitcoin.

3560
01:12:32,875 --> 01:12:34,708
Oh, I should have been there.

3561
01:12:34,708 --> 01:12:35,208
I was a hole

3562
01:12:35,208 --> 01:12:37,500
in one competition. Exactly.

3563
01:12:37,500 --> 01:12:38,125
But in parallel

3564
01:12:38,125 --> 01:12:39,166
with the golf competition,

3565
01:12:39,166 --> 01:12:39,750
there was actually

3566
01:12:39,750 --> 01:12:40,708
a very good conference.

3567
01:12:40,708 --> 01:12:41,416
I mean,

3568
01:12:41,416 --> 01:12:42,208
I mean, Max,

3569
01:12:42,208 --> 01:12:42,791
you can you

3570
01:12:42,791 --> 01:12:43,750
give Max a microphone?

3571
01:12:43,750 --> 01:12:44,916
He can talk forever.

3572
01:12:44,916 --> 01:12:45,375
Yeah.

3573
01:12:45,375 --> 01:12:47,250
It's, so Mexican up on stage.

3574
01:12:47,250 --> 01:12:48,000
Him and Stacy,

3575
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:49,166
they were doing,

3576
01:12:49,166 --> 01:12:50,750
like, unconference sessions.

3577
01:12:50,750 --> 01:12:52,708
They had guest speakers, etc.

3578
01:12:52,708 --> 01:12:53,166
and actually

3579
01:12:53,166 --> 01:12:54,541
was a very good intimate

3580
01:12:54,541 --> 01:12:55,541
conference, I think.

3581
01:12:56,750 --> 01:12:58,791
But even then, like,

3582
01:12:58,791 --> 01:12:59,291
we tried

3583
01:12:59,291 --> 01:13:00,083
to pay in Bitcoin

3584
01:13:00,083 --> 01:13:00,958
at certain places

3585
01:13:00,958 --> 01:13:03,958
and it just wasn't possible.

3586
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:05,000
So I don't think

3587
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:05,541
the Bitcoin

3588
01:13:05,541 --> 01:13:06,833
experiment is going

3589
01:13:06,833 --> 01:13:08,250
maybe as successfully

3590
01:13:08,250 --> 01:13:09,291
as Bukele

3591
01:13:09,291 --> 01:13:10,083
or even you and

3592
01:13:10,083 --> 01:13:11,125
I would have wanted.

3593
01:13:11,125 --> 01:13:11,500
That's just

3594
01:13:11,500 --> 01:13:13,041
the unfortunate truth.

3595
01:13:13,041 --> 01:13:16,041
And I do think that.

3596
01:13:17,333 --> 01:13:19,166
To get to a digital standard

3597
01:13:19,166 --> 01:13:20,666
tether is a good way

3598
01:13:20,666 --> 01:13:22,375
to help us get there.

3599
01:13:22,375 --> 01:13:25,375
But that does long term hurt.

3600
01:13:25,416 --> 01:13:27,375
Bitcoin's potential or it

3601
01:13:27,375 --> 01:13:28,375
rather it hurts the long

3602
01:13:28,375 --> 01:13:28,958
term potential

3603
01:13:28,958 --> 01:13:29,666
of seeing Bitcoin

3604
01:13:29,666 --> 01:13:31,500
hybridization. Right.

3605
01:13:31,500 --> 01:13:33,333
Because it's a stopgap,

3606
01:13:33,333 --> 01:13:34,500
if you know what I mean.

3607
01:13:34,500 --> 01:13:35,791
Yeah,

3608
01:13:35,791 --> 01:13:38,541
I mean, I yeah, I,

3609
01:13:38,541 --> 01:13:39,916
people told me this before

3610
01:13:39,916 --> 01:13:40,833
I went to El Salvador.

3611
01:13:40,833 --> 01:13:41,833
Don't expect hyper

3612
01:13:41,833 --> 01:13:42,625
bitcoin ization.

3613
01:13:42,625 --> 01:13:43,583
But like

3614
01:13:43,583 --> 01:13:45,208
I was positively surprised

3615
01:13:45,208 --> 01:13:46,375
because I tried to use it

3616
01:13:46,375 --> 01:13:47,208
every here and there.

3617
01:13:47,208 --> 01:13:48,250
Like I was surprised

3618
01:13:48,250 --> 01:13:49,458
that you couldn't use it in

3619
01:13:49,458 --> 01:13:50,500
absolutely all

3620
01:13:50,500 --> 01:13:52,041
places in in Santa. Yeah.

3621
01:13:52,041 --> 01:13:54,041
But almost all,

3622
01:13:54,041 --> 01:13:55,833
but but in San Salvador,

3623
01:13:55,833 --> 01:13:57,208
just went around

3624
01:13:57,208 --> 01:13:58,625
and asked random places

3625
01:13:58,625 --> 01:13:59,666
if they accept bitcoin.

3626
01:13:59,666 --> 01:14:01,083
And to my surprise,

3627
01:14:01,083 --> 01:14:02,458
most of them did so.

3628
01:14:02,458 --> 01:14:03,166
So I think that's

3629
01:14:03,166 --> 01:14:04,041
a double sided coin.

3630
01:14:04,041 --> 01:14:04,625
I think

3631
01:14:04,625 --> 01:14:05,666
it depends a lot on

3632
01:14:05,666 --> 01:14:06,791
what expectations

3633
01:14:06,791 --> 01:14:08,333
you enter the country with.

3634
01:14:08,333 --> 01:14:09,416
And I didn't expect it

3635
01:14:09,416 --> 01:14:10,625
to be hyper bitcoin. Nice.

3636
01:14:10,625 --> 01:14:11,750
But yeah.

3637
01:14:11,750 --> 01:14:12,375
But so

3638
01:14:12,375 --> 01:14:13,583
I was happily surprised

3639
01:14:13,583 --> 01:14:14,541
that everywhere in there

3640
01:14:14,541 --> 01:14:15,083
people started

3641
01:14:15,083 --> 01:14:16,166
accepting people

3642
01:14:16,166 --> 01:14:17,000
accepting bitcoin.

3643
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:18,875
And in malls and everywhere,

3644
01:14:18,875 --> 01:14:19,166
you know

3645
01:14:19,166 --> 01:14:21,000
so so yeah, I was

3646
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:22,375
positively surprised by it.

3647
01:14:23,958 --> 01:14:24,916
At the end of the day, if we

3648
01:14:24,916 --> 01:14:25,916
end up in a world

3649
01:14:25,916 --> 01:14:28,916
where there is a

3650
01:14:28,916 --> 01:14:30,625
we see hyper bitcoin ization,

3651
01:14:30,625 --> 01:14:32,958
plus we see a

3652
01:14:32,958 --> 01:14:34,375
reasonably viable

3653
01:14:34,375 --> 01:14:36,458
fiat alternative,

3654
01:14:36,458 --> 01:14:37,333
that's not the worst

3655
01:14:37,333 --> 01:14:38,791
thing in the world.

3656
01:14:38,791 --> 01:14:39,958
Do I want to see everything

3657
01:14:39,958 --> 01:14:41,750
in Bitcoin. Absolutely.

3658
01:14:41,750 --> 01:14:43,166
Is that achievable?

3659
01:14:43,166 --> 01:14:44,333
I think so,

3660
01:14:44,333 --> 01:14:45,750
but there are powers

3661
01:14:45,750 --> 01:14:46,041
that be

3662
01:14:46,041 --> 01:14:46,333
that are going

3663
01:14:46,333 --> 01:14:47,166
to be fighting against that

3664
01:14:47,166 --> 01:14:49,333
for obvious purposes. Right.

3665
01:14:49,333 --> 01:14:50,416
So am I willing

3666
01:14:50,416 --> 01:14:52,458
to settle for a

3667
01:14:52,458 --> 01:14:53,916
digital dollar?

3668
01:14:53,916 --> 01:14:54,500
I mean, as long as it's

3669
01:14:54,500 --> 01:14:55,375
not a Cbdc

3670
01:14:55,375 --> 01:14:56,666
and it's a privately issued

3671
01:14:56,666 --> 01:14:58,916
stablecoin like tether.

3672
01:14:58,916 --> 01:15:00,375
Yeah, I actually think that's

3673
01:15:00,375 --> 01:15:03,375
that's absolutely perfect.

3674
01:15:04,875 --> 01:15:06,000
I don't want to say that

3675
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:09,000
this is settling, but

3676
01:15:09,166 --> 01:15:11,125
I wouldn't be too upset

3677
01:15:11,125 --> 01:15:12,458
if we saw the world

3678
01:15:12,458 --> 01:15:13,625
transacting in Bitcoin

3679
01:15:13,625 --> 01:15:14,125
end tether,

3680
01:15:14,125 --> 01:15:14,875
let's put it like that.

3681
01:15:14,875 --> 01:15:15,833
Especially if tether

3682
01:15:15,833 --> 01:15:16,958
is secured by Bitcoin.

3683
01:15:19,583 --> 01:15:20,416
Yeah.

3684
01:15:20,416 --> 01:15:22,208
I,

3685
01:15:22,208 --> 01:15:25,208
I agree on most of that and I

3686
01:15:25,625 --> 01:15:26,750
yeah I still want to go

3687
01:15:26,750 --> 01:15:28,666
to these conferences that,

3688
01:15:28,666 --> 01:15:29,583
tether funds.

3689
01:15:29,583 --> 01:15:30,541
So I'm not going to say

3690
01:15:30,541 --> 01:15:32,666
anything more.

3691
01:15:32,666 --> 01:15:34,333
I love plan B in Lugano.

3692
01:15:34,333 --> 01:15:34,791
I didn't make it

3693
01:15:34,791 --> 01:15:35,458
to El Salvador,

3694
01:15:35,458 --> 01:15:35,875
but I love

3695
01:15:35,875 --> 01:15:36,791
the Lugano conference.

3696
01:15:36,791 --> 01:15:37,500
I thought they did

3697
01:15:37,500 --> 01:15:38,583
a phenomenal job there.

3698
01:15:38,583 --> 01:15:39,416
And it's,

3699
01:15:39,416 --> 01:15:40,125
actually interested

3700
01:15:40,125 --> 01:15:40,541
to see what.

3701
01:15:40,541 --> 01:15:41,750
How did we see each other

3702
01:15:41,750 --> 01:15:42,166
there?

3703
01:15:42,166 --> 01:15:42,750
Like, I don't,

3704
01:15:42,750 --> 01:15:44,166
I can't remember.

3705
01:15:44,166 --> 01:15:45,750
Oh, I have no idea.

3706
01:15:45,750 --> 01:15:47,000
I mean, so many people

3707
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:47,708
at these conferences,

3708
01:15:47,708 --> 01:15:48,500
it's hard to keep track.

3709
01:15:48,500 --> 01:15:49,333
Same here.

3710
01:15:49,333 --> 01:15:49,791
Yeah, but

3711
01:15:49,791 --> 01:15:51,166
we'll we'll have to

3712
01:15:51,166 --> 01:15:51,750
have a chat

3713
01:15:51,750 --> 01:15:52,500
that the next one.

3714
01:15:52,500 --> 01:15:53,333
Are you coming to Prague,

3715
01:15:53,333 --> 01:15:54,666
for instance?

3716
01:15:54,666 --> 01:15:55,583
No.

3717
01:15:55,583 --> 01:15:56,083
Unfortunately,

3718
01:15:56,083 --> 01:15:57,000
I'm not coming to Prague.

3719
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:58,208
I've been in the month

3720
01:15:58,208 --> 01:15:59,000
of January

3721
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:00,541
in three conferences

3722
01:16:00,541 --> 01:16:02,208
on three or across

3723
01:16:02,208 --> 01:16:03,916
four continents, actually,

3724
01:16:03,916 --> 01:16:04,291
because I had a

3725
01:16:04,291 --> 01:16:05,666
little layover in Europe.

3726
01:16:05,666 --> 01:16:07,583
So I'm taking the next month

3727
01:16:07,583 --> 01:16:09,708
or two off from traveling.

3728
01:16:09,708 --> 01:16:10,375
All right.

3729
01:16:10,375 --> 01:16:11,666
Need to recuperate

3730
01:16:11,666 --> 01:16:12,541
after the holidays,

3731
01:16:12,541 --> 01:16:14,083
plus three months of,

3732
01:16:14,083 --> 01:16:14,458
a month

3733
01:16:14,458 --> 01:16:16,333
of running around the world.

3734
01:16:16,333 --> 01:16:16,791
All right,

3735
01:16:16,791 --> 01:16:17,666
I'm sure

3736
01:16:17,666 --> 01:16:18,833
we're going to bump into one

3737
01:16:18,833 --> 01:16:19,208
another

3738
01:16:19,208 --> 01:16:20,541
at one of these events.

3739
01:16:20,541 --> 01:16:21,625
Sooner or later.

3740
01:16:21,625 --> 01:16:22,875
But, Patrick, this been.

3741
01:16:22,875 --> 01:16:23,250
Well, hey,

3742
01:16:23,250 --> 01:16:24,083
if you come to

3743
01:16:24,083 --> 01:16:24,958
if you come to Bitcoin.

3744
01:16:24,958 --> 01:16:26,000
Miami,

3745
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:27,000
we're the title sponsor

3746
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:27,833
of the Bitcoin Miami

3747
01:16:27,833 --> 01:16:28,541
golf tournament.

3748
01:16:28,541 --> 01:16:29,416
You can try your best

3749
01:16:29,416 --> 01:16:30,250
at winning another bitcoin

3750
01:16:30,250 --> 01:16:32,250
I, I probably, Miami.

3751
01:16:32,250 --> 01:16:33,166
Oh no I'm sorry not bitcoin

3752
01:16:33,166 --> 01:16:34,375
Miami bitcoin Las Vegas

3753
01:16:34,375 --> 01:16:35,041
Vegas this year

3754
01:16:35,041 --> 01:16:35,875
I'm probably not

3755
01:16:35,875 --> 01:16:37,041
going to that

3756
01:16:37,041 --> 01:16:38,291
for several reasons.

3757
01:16:38,291 --> 01:16:39,000
I think that's

3758
01:16:40,250 --> 01:16:42,916
the city coiner fumes are

3759
01:16:42,916 --> 01:16:44,416
starting to smell a bit

3760
01:16:44,416 --> 01:16:46,541
too bad for my taste.

3761
01:16:46,541 --> 01:16:47,875
And I have another conference

3762
01:16:47,875 --> 01:16:49,000
that, is also.

3763
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:50,041
I'm not going to shit

3764
01:16:50,041 --> 01:16:51,625
on, on on,

3765
01:16:51,625 --> 01:16:52,541
Bitcoin magazine

3766
01:16:52,541 --> 01:16:53,125
too much here

3767
01:16:53,125 --> 01:16:55,333
because I do like events.

3768
01:16:55,333 --> 01:16:56,541
I, I do pretty well

3769
01:16:56,541 --> 01:16:56,875
with them.

3770
01:16:56,875 --> 01:16:57,750
I sometimes wish

3771
01:16:57,750 --> 01:16:58,166
they would have

3772
01:16:58,166 --> 01:16:59,458
made other choices.

3773
01:16:59,458 --> 01:17:01,291
When it comes to like,

3774
01:17:01,291 --> 01:17:02,583
what, what sponsors

3775
01:17:02,583 --> 01:17:05,250
they take in, to me bitcoin.

3776
01:17:05,250 --> 01:17:07,083
Bitcoin first is a shit

3777
01:17:07,083 --> 01:17:07,750
coin company.

3778
01:17:07,750 --> 01:17:09,000
Bitcoin only is a bitcoin

3779
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:10,000
only company.

3780
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:11,000
And that's

3781
01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:12,375
what they should focus on.

3782
01:17:12,375 --> 01:17:14,750
But having said that Patrick

3783
01:17:14,750 --> 01:17:16,250
I got to go here.

3784
01:17:16,250 --> 01:17:17,583
So and so I'm sorry for that

3785
01:17:17,583 --> 01:17:18,500
I don't know

3786
01:17:18,500 --> 01:17:20,291
I love this conversation

3787
01:17:20,291 --> 01:17:23,083
and I, I,

3788
01:17:23,083 --> 01:17:23,791
in advance

3789
01:17:23,791 --> 01:17:25,666
I want to apologize

3790
01:17:25,666 --> 01:17:26,541
for for

3791
01:17:26,541 --> 01:17:27,750
putting you against the wall

3792
01:17:27,750 --> 01:17:28,791
and calling you a shit coiner

3793
01:17:28,791 --> 01:17:29,750
and all of that.

3794
01:17:29,750 --> 01:17:31,458
I hope it was enjoyable

3795
01:17:31,458 --> 01:17:32,916
for you, too.

3796
01:17:32,916 --> 01:17:34,041
And, I had

3797
01:17:34,041 --> 01:17:35,000
a great conversation today.

3798
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:36,708
I always love having.

3799
01:17:36,708 --> 01:17:37,041
You know what?

3800
01:17:37,041 --> 01:17:38,333
Podcasts are not fun

3801
01:17:38,333 --> 01:17:38,958
unless they're

3802
01:17:38,958 --> 01:17:40,583
slightly confrontational.

3803
01:17:40,583 --> 01:17:41,708
If you have two people

3804
01:17:41,708 --> 01:17:42,583
that get together and just

3805
01:17:42,583 --> 01:17:43,708
agree about everything,

3806
01:17:44,958 --> 01:17:45,666
what the fuck are people

3807
01:17:45,666 --> 01:17:46,500
going to tune in

3808
01:17:46,500 --> 01:17:48,000
and listen to? Right.

3809
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:48,291
A little

3810
01:17:48,291 --> 01:17:48,750
a little bit

3811
01:17:48,750 --> 01:17:49,500
of confrontation,

3812
01:17:49,500 --> 01:17:50,125
a little bit of name

3813
01:17:50,125 --> 01:17:51,833
calling is always a fun time.

3814
01:17:51,833 --> 01:17:53,500
Yeah, I absolutely agree.

3815
01:17:53,500 --> 01:17:55,791
And we should both be lucky,

3816
01:17:55,791 --> 01:17:57,458
that Luke is not here now

3817
01:17:57,458 --> 01:17:58,250
because it wouldn't

3818
01:17:58,250 --> 01:17:59,666
have been as confrontational

3819
01:17:59,666 --> 01:18:00,750
if it was because

3820
01:18:00,750 --> 01:18:01,250
he makes me

3821
01:18:01,250 --> 01:18:03,625
a better diplomat.

3822
01:18:03,625 --> 01:18:06,166
But but, But anyway.

3823
01:18:06,166 --> 01:18:07,666
Thanks. Thanks a lot.

3824
01:18:07,666 --> 01:18:08,541
Is there anywhere

3825
01:18:08,541 --> 01:18:09,291
you want to send

3826
01:18:09,291 --> 01:18:09,958
our listeners?

3827
01:18:09,958 --> 01:18:10,458
Like,

3828
01:18:10,458 --> 01:18:11,541
where can they check out some

3829
01:18:11,541 --> 01:18:12,083
our group

3830
01:18:12,083 --> 01:18:13,041
and what you're doing

3831
01:18:13,041 --> 01:18:14,000
and so on. On the inside.

3832
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:14,250
I mean,

3833
01:18:14,250 --> 01:18:15,083
you can just check us out

3834
01:18:15,083 --> 01:18:16,916
at Samara Dash Agyekum

3835
01:18:16,916 --> 01:18:17,541
if you want to learn

3836
01:18:17,541 --> 01:18:18,291
more about us.

3837
01:18:18,291 --> 01:18:19,583
The funds were invested in

3838
01:18:19,583 --> 01:18:21,625
and our Bitcoin position.

3839
01:18:21,625 --> 01:18:23,291
I have my own podcast,

3840
01:18:23,291 --> 01:18:24,000
proof of words

3841
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:24,958
we call it,

3842
01:18:24,958 --> 01:18:25,458
if you want to come

3843
01:18:25,458 --> 01:18:27,041
and listen in to,

3844
01:18:27,041 --> 01:18:27,750
I thought

3845
01:18:27,750 --> 01:18:29,250
it was pretty clever. Right.

3846
01:18:29,250 --> 01:18:30,041
So if you want to come listen

3847
01:18:30,041 --> 01:18:30,750
to the Proof of Words

3848
01:18:30,750 --> 01:18:32,125
podcast,

3849
01:18:32,125 --> 01:18:33,458
just look up proof of words

3850
01:18:33,458 --> 01:18:34,958
on Google or wherever,

3851
01:18:34,958 --> 01:18:36,000
and you can

3852
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:37,208
tune and listen into us.

3853
01:18:38,750 --> 01:18:39,583
Fantastic.

3854
01:18:39,583 --> 01:18:40,500
So, Patrick,

3855
01:18:40,500 --> 01:18:41,500
thank you very much.

3856
01:18:41,500 --> 01:18:42,666
And thank you very much

3857
01:18:42,666 --> 01:18:44,625
for having me. Life. Yeah.

3858
01:18:44,625 --> 01:18:45,458
Looking forward to it.

3859
01:18:45,458 --> 01:18:46,833
Have a great day.

3860
01:18:46,833 --> 01:18:47,750
You too man.

3861
01:18:47,750 --> 01:18:48,833
This has been the Bitcoin

3862
01:18:48,833 --> 01:18:49,833
Infinity show.

3863
01:18:49,833 --> 01:18:50,750
Thanks for listening.