June 12, 2024

Bitcoin in the European Union with Niko Jilch - FFS #113

Bitcoin in the European Union with Niko Jilch - FFS #113

Niko Jilch joins us to talk about Bitcoin in the German-speaking world as well as the rest of the EU, touching on history, current events, and optimism for the future!
Key Takeaways:🔹The German-speaking Bitcoin community is large and active, with a ...

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The Bitcoin Infinity Show

Niko Jilch joins us to talk about Bitcoin in the German-speaking world as well as the rest of the EU, touching on history, current events, and optimism for the future!

Key Takeaways:
🔹The German-speaking Bitcoin community is large and active, with a strong interest in Bitcoin as a store of value.
🔹The collapse of socialism in Eastern Europe and the lessons learned from that experience can be applied to the current state of the financial system.
🔹The financial sector may become smaller or even disappear in a hyper Bitcoinized world
🔹The EU is facing challenges due to socialism and incompetence in its institutions
🔹Democracies are not inherently stable and can lead to unsustainable economic systems
🔹The German-speaking world is experiencing a growing interest in Bitcoin, with podcasts and content focusing on its different aspects.
🔹Bitcoin empowers individuals to challenge broken systems and take control of their own lives.

Connect with Niko:
https://x.com/NikoJilch
https://nikojilch.com/

Connect with Us:
https://www.freedomfootprintshow.com/
https://twitter.com/FootprintShow
https://primal.net/freedom
https://twitter.com/knutsvanholm
https://primal.net/knut
https://twitter.com/lukedewolf
https://primal.net/luke

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The Freedom Footprint Show is a Bitcoin podcast hosted by Knut Svanholm and Luke de Wolf.

In each episode, we explore everything from deep philosophy to practical tools to emit freedom dioxide to expand your freedom footprint. This isn't a show for bitcoin news or analysis - we dig into the deep topics that are important to us and to our guests. Join us if you want to go deeper down the rabbit hole of Bitcoin and related freedom-go-up technologies and ideas!

The Freedom Footprint Show is a Bitcoin podcast hosted by Knut Svanholm and Luke de Wolf.

In each episode, we explore everything from deep philosophy to practical tools to emit freedom dioxide to expand your freedom footprint!

Chapters

00:00 - Introducing Niko Jilch

01:11 - Niko's Background and Bitcoin Journey

05:29 - Ideology

11:38 - Germany and the Legacy of History

20:51 - The State of Bitcoin

27:59 - Medium of Exchange Over Time

31:11 - Mises Regression Theorem

40:17 - The Future of the Financial Sector

45:37 - State Control

53:47 - The European Union

01:06:45 - Reforming the System

01:10:36 - The Promise of the EU

01:26:06 - Lockdowns in Europe

01:30:48 - Optimism About Bitcoin

Transcript
1
00:00:00,139 --> 00:00:01,962
Niko, welcome to the
Freedom Footprint Show.

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00:00:01,972 --> 00:00:02,862
Thanks for joining us.

3
00:00:03,352 --> 00:00:03,952
Hi Luke.

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00:00:03,952 --> 00:00:04,482
Hi Knut.

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00:00:04,482 --> 00:00:05,302
It's good to see you guys.

6
00:00:05,612 --> 00:00:06,442
Good to see you

7
00:00:06,692 --> 00:00:07,442
too, friend.

8
00:00:07,599 --> 00:00:08,459
it's been a while.

9
00:00:08,469 --> 00:00:12,859
We, we, we just, we were just
talking about Madera, which feels

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like a lifetime ago, even though
it was like day before yesterday or

11
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something.

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It was, it was a great time.

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I was actually, I, I, like literally
two minutes ago, I finished watching,

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00:00:23,639 --> 00:00:27,644
uh, a Michael Saylor interview where
he talked about Madeira and, and, I

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do spend a lot of time listening to
Michael Saylor interviews, you know,

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whenever, whenever I don't know what to
do, I just Google Michael Saylor and see

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what he has to say

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Oh yeah.

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And you, you interviewed him once, right?

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Uh, at some, at the Innsbruck thing.

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Wasn't, wasn't that where
you interviewed him?

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twice, actually.

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So Innsbruck,

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which was the, the biggest, the
biggest German speaking Bitcoin

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conference for 2022 and 2023.

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We had Michael, um, on, on,
uh, on a remote interview when

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I, I had the honor to talk to

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him.

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It was fun.

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that's great.

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Uh,

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it's great to talk to Michael.

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Uh, but of course, it's
great to talk to you too.

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You're a legend in the German
speaking Bitcoin world.

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And for, for those of our listeners
who aren't from that world, could

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you give them the TLDR on Niko
Giltsch and your journey from Goldbug

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Journalism to Epic Bitcoin Maximalism.

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Are you saying that there's
Bitcoin outside the German speaking

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Yeah, a few.

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They're scattered here and there,
but most of them are in the German

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speaking community, yes.

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so

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first of all, hi, thank you for having me.

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Um, it's, it's a pleasure.

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Uh, my name is Niko, Niko Jilch.

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I'm, uh, originally from, from
Vienna, Austria, where I'm

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sitting right now as well.

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Um, I am one of the very few
people who are, uh, Austrian

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by passport and economics.

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There isn't, there isn't many
anymore, um, but, but, you know,

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I read my Mises, I read my Hayek.

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Um, long story short,
I am, I'm a journalist.

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I've been, I've been covering
economics, monetary policy, all that

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stuff, um, for almost 20 years now.

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I've been with a mainstream paper, Die
Presse, which is actually very old,

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very liberal, um, newspaper liberal in
the classical liberal sense, whatever,

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you know, is, is, is, is still there.

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and I've, I've, I love working there
for Almost 10 years I got my chance

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to write about gold, write about
inflation, write about Bitcoin as well.

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I think I wrote one of the first
mainstream articles about Bitcoin in 2013.

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I'm sure it was total shit.

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But I can't find it anymore, actually.

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So I'm just claiming it.

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But I did, I did write that.

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So, um, and, and for the last two and a
half years, I've been building up my own

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little media company, which is basically
based around my, my podcast in German.

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It's called Das Bitcoin Bringt.

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It's the only German speaking
Bitcoin podcast that's, um, uh,

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most of my episodes are recorded on
site in my studio here in Vienna.

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Um, like I said, there is something
that's, that's maybe not as, as well

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known outside of Germany, Austria,
Switzerland, the, the, the Bitcoin

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scene here is absolutely enormous.

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I think that there are about 40.

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Bitcoin maximalist podcasts
out there, but I'm the only

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one who does it in the studio.

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I do everything on video as well.

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So I'm stronger on YouTube that I
am on, on, on the podcast anyway.

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and then there is also the, the,
the, the little known fact that,

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um, within Austria, which is a small
country, we have 9 million people here.

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Um, it's like a small version of
Germany, but we're more, we're

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more laid back and more fun.

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I'm actually the only, the only
Bitcoin podcast that I'm also.

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Uh, I'm, I'm claiming the title of a
most, uh, uh, important finance podcast

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period because there isn't any other one
that there is no finance channels here.

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We all watch the German stuff,
but the finance stuff that gets

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produced here is very, very small.

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So yeah, it's, it's going well and
I'm, I'm, I'm loving the work I've

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been, I'm very busy setting up
my corporate structure right now.

89
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I'm also stacking a little bit
of Bitcoin with my, with my

90
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company, which is a lot of fun.

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00:04:06,041 --> 00:04:09,821
Um, and I'm trying to, to, to, to
not, what I'm actually trying to do

92
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right now is I'm trying to not lose
my focus now that the bull market is

93
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starting because I started in, February,
2022, which was at the end, like at

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the beginning of the bear market.

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Right.

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So, so now that everything is,
Everything feels, um, different, you

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know, there's BlackRock and the price
is going up and, and I'm not trying to

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not lose my focus, but I'm also, so I'm
trying to focus on my channel and my

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content because there's so much awesome
content in, in, in, in, in English.

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There's lots of awesome
content in German as well.

101
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I could do this in English, but
I decided to do it in German

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because there's just more need, I
think, for, for additional stuff.

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And also I'm trying to not, not
to forget that there is like that

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95 percent of the people out there
haven't even thought about Bitcoin

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for one second in their life.

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I think this is important
because I see this.

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I'm very happy to be on the
Freedom Footprint show right now

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here in the Austrian parliament.

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There is a symposium, a conference
that's about degrowth and communism.

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00:05:08,551 --> 00:05:10,961
So, um, so this is what I see.

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Uh, but I, I am very hopeful, very
optimistic about the Bitcoin, um, about

112
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Bitcoin as a, as a tool for, for freedom.

113
00:05:19,741 --> 00:05:23,231
And that's, you know, in, in
the spirit of, of Jeff Booth,

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I'm trying to not concentrate on
the stuff that I can't change.

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I'm trying to concentrate on
the, on the positives, um,

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at the future.

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fantastic.

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And you mentioned the word liberal there
and how it's, um, and you had to point

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out that you mean in the classic sense.

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Because isn't it fascinating how that
world, how that word has completely

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shifted meaning to mean not liberal at

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all.

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Right now I'm, um, in preparation for
Prague where I will be talking about,

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um, so one, one of my, my pet peeves
and one of my hobbies is, you know,

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the Soviet Union and, and Eastern
Europe and, and all that stuff.

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I've been like reading and
working about this for, for years.

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Like starting in school, right.

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Maybe this is one of the
reasons why I'm sitting here.

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I wrote my, my, my thesis at the
end of, of, of school when I was 18.

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I wrote it about the red terror and the
Lenin and Stalin, um, which basically,

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you know, um, made me immune to the
whole communism thing during university.

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but yeah, I mean, One of the things
that, that, that changes when you

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go down the road to socialism and,
and, and, and communism is that,

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you know, words lose their meaning.

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You, you, you, you stop defining
words in a, in a coherent sense.

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And, and, and it, it, it all ends in a,
in a complete mess where you basically

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have to read the party newspaper every
day to know what words have what meaning.

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Um, yeah, liberal, liberalism
in my, in my opinion.

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Ice is the idea that every individual is
able to decide what they do with their

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life and in extension with their wealth.

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That's the Bitcoin thing.

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But of course, especially in
Western Europe, this has been.

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You know, it's disappearing
my, my, my thesis.

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So what I'm trying to do in Prague is,
um, I'm trying to find, or for my, for

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my keynote that I'm doing in Prague,
I'm trying to find, um, um, lessons

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from the revolutions of 1989 lessons
for the, for the Bitcoiners, because

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there are, there is some stuff in there.

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There was a, they were fighting against
an, an, um, you know, nonsensical,

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Disfunctioning, centrally planned,
monetary and economic system.

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And we are also fighting against
the nonsensical, failing, centrally

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planned, monetary and economic system.

152
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So there are some, some, um, um,
I'm not finished with my work yet.

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Um, but yeah, here in Western
Europe, um, here in Western

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Europe, it's, it's interesting.

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It's, uh, Liberal, especially in the U.

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S.

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right, liberal in the U.

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S.

159
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means basically you're a leftist.

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Um, while the German word liberal still
means that you think there is some, you

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know, something to the idea that the
individual can do whatever they want.

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Um, but then we have to put a classic
liberal on it because of course

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there's neoliberal and all that kind of

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stuff.

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Right.

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yeah, I mean, I love

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the idea.

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I, I say recently, but it's more
like a year ago that I read, uh,

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Michael Malice's The White Pill.

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Uh, have you heard about
that book or even read it?

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I'm sorry.

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No,

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It's about the Soviet Union and the East
Bloc and its history, and it's written

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as sort of with, you know, villains and
heroes and sort of Thatcher and Reagan

175
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being the heroes, and written in a, like,
in, joyful of a way of Uh, you can when

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you're writing about something that was
basically a giant prison for everyone for

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70 years, and, and how, how horrible the
Soviet Union really was, and, uh, a lot

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about how the West sort of, since mass
media and academia are filled with people

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00:09:13,750 --> 00:09:19,060
who lean that way, and that was true
like 50 years ago too, that they wanted

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00:09:19,100 --> 00:09:21,725
to, um, to hush down the whole thing.

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Whenever they heard bad news from the
Soviet Union, they, they wouldn't,

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they, they deliberately didn't believe
it because they wanted, they wanted

183
00:09:29,945 --> 00:09:35,425
the Soviet Union to, to be this, uh,
socialistic paradise, which it never was.

184
00:09:35,475 --> 00:09:38,675
But some people in the West still
viewed it that way because they

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00:09:38,675 --> 00:09:42,865
had this dream, uh, since they
subscribed to the same ideology.

186
00:09:43,184 --> 00:09:44,594
have the same thing today, right?

187
00:09:44,634 --> 00:09:45,134
I mean,

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00:09:45,934 --> 00:09:48,640
queers for Palestine, basically, right?

189
00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:52,320
It's, it's, it's, when they, if
they would go to Palestine, they

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00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,340
get killed, but still, you know,
um, it's, it's the same story.

191
00:09:56,490 --> 00:09:59,420
It's, it's, and we, you, you still
have this today with, with other,

192
00:09:59,420 --> 00:10:06,065
uh, Um, ideologies, lesser so with
communism, but, um, maybe because we

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00:10:06,065 --> 00:10:07,695
have more communism at home today.

194
00:10:07,705 --> 00:10:11,175
And I, and I say this, when I say this,
if I say this in German and people will

195
00:10:11,215 --> 00:10:16,155
just, you know, but there is like, there
is an EU, uh, election coming up in June.

196
00:10:16,565 --> 00:10:20,175
The communists are literally on the
ballot, like literally they're calling

197
00:10:20,175 --> 00:10:23,279
themselves communists and they're
all about, you know, affordable

198
00:10:23,289 --> 00:10:24,729
housing now, which of course.

199
00:10:25,399 --> 00:10:26,849
It's not affordable because of inflation.

200
00:10:26,849 --> 00:10:29,419
I don't have to tell you this,
but people do not understand this.

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00:10:30,049 --> 00:10:33,789
And, and I think what's very important
about Bitcoin in this, in this context is

202
00:10:33,829 --> 00:10:36,569
that, um, we have something to strive for.

203
00:10:36,569 --> 00:10:41,179
We have something that we can see
that, that, that offers an alternative

204
00:10:41,179 --> 00:10:42,829
and offers a different world.

205
00:10:42,839 --> 00:10:47,029
When I was, um, in a gold bug,
basically, I still like gold.

206
00:10:47,029 --> 00:10:50,289
I'm not one of those Bitcoiners
who say now that we have something

207
00:10:50,289 --> 00:10:51,559
better, gold is going to go away.

208
00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,039
I don't think that's going to happen,
but that's not the point here.

209
00:10:54,579 --> 00:10:58,279
The thing with gold is that gold bugs have
always been very, you know, frustrated

210
00:10:58,279 --> 00:11:01,109
because the best thing they could ever
hope for is that the governments that

211
00:11:01,109 --> 00:11:05,719
they hated, um, would take the gold
and put, go back on a gold standard.

212
00:11:05,799 --> 00:11:10,539
And that basically put a huge, um,
price control on their own gold,

213
00:11:10,539 --> 00:11:12,519
which is, which is a gold standard.

214
00:11:12,852 --> 00:11:15,422
and with Bitcoin and I,
I honestly, I couldn't.

215
00:11:16,197 --> 00:11:18,517
For a long time, I didn't believe
in Bitcoin because for these

216
00:11:18,517 --> 00:11:20,397
reasons, I thought it would,
it was too good to be true.

217
00:11:20,397 --> 00:11:22,577
I thought it was, it was too far fetched.

218
00:11:22,917 --> 00:11:26,627
and I thought that we are going to go
back to a gold standard or not a gold

219
00:11:26,637 --> 00:11:30,837
standard, but something, something
connected to gold, let's just say.

220
00:11:31,444 --> 00:11:34,084
and this is the same when you look,
uh, when you look at the, at the

221
00:11:34,084 --> 00:11:36,764
history of Eastern Europe, but I'm
here in Vienna, so we have lots

222
00:11:36,764 --> 00:11:38,144
of influence from Eastern Europe.

223
00:11:38,174 --> 00:11:40,144
We are, we are in the
middle of Europe, right?

224
00:11:40,184 --> 00:11:43,554
We have all the, the Eastern bloc
countries, right, right around the corner.

225
00:11:43,554 --> 00:11:44,264
We have many people.

226
00:11:44,839 --> 00:11:49,389
Here from, from, from Eastern Europe and,
and when we have discussions on, on, on

227
00:11:49,619 --> 00:11:54,049
Bitcoin with communists, which sometimes
happens, um, I always can count on, on,

228
00:11:54,079 --> 00:11:57,339
on the brothers and sisters from, from
the East to shut up the communists.

229
00:11:57,949 --> 00:12:01,489
Um, and I hope that this goes on,
uh, but, uh, there's no guarantee.

230
00:12:02,010 --> 00:12:07,440
and the difference, I think, between,
um, between countries like, like, uh,

231
00:12:07,450 --> 00:12:12,510
uh, the Czech Republic, um, Slovakia,
Hungary, Poland, um, who have been

232
00:12:12,550 --> 00:12:17,860
countries at least, they knew, East,
East Germany is the perfect example.

233
00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:21,210
Um, they knew that they are,
that they are, um, that there is

234
00:12:21,230 --> 00:12:22,970
something, they knew what they wanted.

235
00:12:22,990 --> 00:12:24,300
They knew what they could strive for.

236
00:12:24,300 --> 00:12:24,580
Yes.

237
00:12:24,580 --> 00:12:26,940
In the beginning, there was lots of
lies about, about, you know, about,

238
00:12:26,940 --> 00:12:29,770
you know, about, Capitalism and the
fascists on the other side of the wall.

239
00:12:29,770 --> 00:12:34,650
But at some, you know, news came
through and, and, and, and, uh,

240
00:12:34,650 --> 00:12:37,180
with the years, everybody knew,
okay, what I want is to go.

241
00:12:37,210 --> 00:12:38,630
I want to be like the West.

242
00:12:38,630 --> 00:12:38,900
Right.

243
00:12:39,284 --> 00:12:42,104
and I think this is important that
we have something because with, with

244
00:12:42,124 --> 00:12:43,284
gold, we didn't have that with Bitcoin.

245
00:12:43,554 --> 00:12:43,934
We do.

246
00:12:44,324 --> 00:12:46,124
Um, and, and I think.

247
00:12:46,599 --> 00:12:51,399
Without being too harsh with our, with
our friends in Russia, I think that

248
00:12:51,399 --> 00:12:52,779
that's something that happened in Russia.

249
00:12:52,789 --> 00:12:57,069
Like people were so disillusioned and
they could never think of really joining

250
00:12:57,329 --> 00:13:01,899
the West in the same way as Poland
and the Czechs and whatever it did.

251
00:13:02,259 --> 00:13:06,159
Um, that, that, that they still
don't have this, this perspective

252
00:13:06,159 --> 00:13:07,539
today, to be quite honest.

253
00:13:08,252 --> 00:13:11,542
And so, yeah, Bitcoin can, can
help as a, like a lightning rod

254
00:13:11,542 --> 00:13:15,322
of freedom, by the way, the whole
story with Reagan and Thatcher being

255
00:13:15,332 --> 00:13:18,392
heroes is, let's just say it's,

256
00:13:18,392 --> 00:13:19,682
it's, it's murky.

257
00:13:19,962 --> 00:13:20,192
It's

258
00:13:20,412 --> 00:13:20,932
yeah, yeah.

259
00:13:20,962 --> 00:13:22,152
Well, they're not

260
00:13:22,822 --> 00:13:27,412
literally painted as heroes, but they,
they have a Heroic function in the story,

261
00:13:27,412 --> 00:13:32,662
in the, um, in the end game of the,
uh, the fall of the, the Soviet Empire.

262
00:13:33,362 --> 00:13:39,165
Uh, my, my, uh, another German friend
of ours, uh, Volker told us about, uh,

263
00:13:39,195 --> 00:13:44,782
or told me rather about, when East and
West Germany, United and how, how that's

264
00:13:45,082 --> 00:13:50,664
like, people always portray that as
like the, the east, dropping all the

265
00:13:50,664 --> 00:13:53,224
communism and becoming westernized.

266
00:13:53,254 --> 00:13:59,004
But what they leave out is the opposite
effect and how East Germans came to West

267
00:13:59,034 --> 00:14:04,054
Germany and asked people questions like,
oh, you have to pay for child care?

268
00:14:04,054 --> 00:14:06,724
We never had to pay for
child care in East Germany.

269
00:14:07,104 --> 00:14:08,624
Oh, you have to pay for health care?

270
00:14:08,854 --> 00:14:10,654
We never had to pay for health care.

271
00:14:10,974 --> 00:14:17,139
And how that influenced German
politics after after 89, uh, and

272
00:14:17,139 --> 00:14:22,825
how, how West Germany became more,
socialistic because of, of these,

273
00:14:22,835 --> 00:14:24,585
the influx of these ideas.

274
00:14:24,955 --> 00:14:26,955
It's, it's not only that,
it's not only that, it's

275
00:14:26,955 --> 00:14:30,705
also that, that after the fall
of the wall, West Germany did

276
00:14:30,705 --> 00:14:34,815
not have to show the East that
capitalism works better anymore.

277
00:14:35,515 --> 00:14:39,905
That's the whole idea of, you know,
the end of history, um, this whole, we

278
00:14:39,905 --> 00:14:44,525
won, it's over, you know, um, and now
we, we know we, we didn't win, that's

279
00:14:44,525 --> 00:14:50,095
why I, I, I absolutely love going to
Eastern Europe because people there still

280
00:14:50,155 --> 00:14:55,175
understand, um, that, that they, they
can never go back to this, to the system.

281
00:14:55,185 --> 00:14:57,595
They can never, they, they have seen it.

282
00:14:58,050 --> 00:15:01,310
And this is why it's so ridiculous
when you have like a DeGroff conference

283
00:15:01,310 --> 00:15:04,680
here in the Austrian parliament or
you have, um, literal communists

284
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,670
on the ballot and people, you know,
marching the streets talking about,

285
00:15:07,710 --> 00:15:11,280
about communism and socialism being
the solution, um, because that's only

286
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:12,920
happening in, in, in Western Europe.

287
00:15:12,950 --> 00:15:14,660
There was a, there was an amazing story.

288
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:15,760
It's a couple of years ago.

289
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,640
Um, when, when the Greta Thunberg movement
was still going strong, they had a huge,

290
00:15:20,670 --> 00:15:23,060
um, a conference of, of, of youths.

291
00:15:23,835 --> 00:15:24,835
I think it was in Germany.

292
00:15:24,835 --> 00:15:26,805
I'm not sure, but I think it
was in Germany because it was,

293
00:15:26,845 --> 00:15:28,376
it was close to the public.

294
00:15:28,606 --> 00:15:32,156
But there was one reporter from the
German Bild Zeitung, the huge tabloid

295
00:15:32,156 --> 00:15:34,966
in Germany, um, who was there incognito.

296
00:15:35,226 --> 00:15:39,086
And she wrote a report and she said,
it's, it was funny because, because, um,

297
00:15:39,096 --> 00:15:43,306
all the, the, the young people from West
Germany, like France and Germans and

298
00:15:43,316 --> 00:15:46,531
whatever, They went on stage and they
said, we need to do this and we need to

299
00:15:46,531 --> 00:15:48,601
do that in order to stop climate change.

300
00:15:48,601 --> 00:15:52,151
And then the East, the East German,
um, uh, people at the East, the

301
00:15:52,151 --> 00:15:55,871
East Europeans, they said, wait
a minute, it sounds a lot like

302
00:15:55,901 --> 00:15:57,361
socialism you're talking about.

303
00:15:57,571 --> 00:15:57,941
Right.

304
00:15:58,241 --> 00:16:02,711
Um, and then it was all a big fight,
you know, uh, because, because

305
00:16:02,721 --> 00:16:04,311
this is literally a red line.

306
00:16:04,311 --> 00:16:05,251
You should never cross it.

307
00:16:05,251 --> 00:16:07,571
Of course we are very
close to crossing it.

308
00:16:07,571 --> 00:16:12,971
I mean, we have actually crossed it
in, um, Helmut Kohl, the chancellor,

309
00:16:12,971 --> 00:16:17,751
who was a German chancellor when the
wall fell, he said that um, after,

310
00:16:17,831 --> 00:16:22,291
you know, when the state's part of
the economy is more than 50 percent,

311
00:16:22,541 --> 00:16:24,491
that's where he draws the line.

312
00:16:24,491 --> 00:16:26,441
That's where it's socialism.

313
00:16:26,451 --> 00:16:28,161
Now it's far more than that.

314
00:16:28,771 --> 00:16:29,741
Um, yeah, it's very sad.

315
00:16:29,741 --> 00:16:30,351
It's very sad.

316
00:16:30,351 --> 00:16:34,111
And I think that's, I've actually
thought for a long time, even before

317
00:16:34,351 --> 00:16:38,311
Bitcoin, I thought that unfortunately
we still have to go through the

318
00:16:38,321 --> 00:16:43,558
collapse of our version of socialism
before we can, before we can have, a

319
00:16:43,558 --> 00:16:49,628
fresh, uh, A fresh look at, at, at, at
capitalist, uh, at market economy ideas.

320
00:16:49,818 --> 00:16:54,328
And when you look at, at, um,
at Argentina, that's exactly

321
00:16:54,328 --> 00:16:55,238
what's happening, right?

322
00:16:55,318 --> 00:16:59,838
Um, so I think that looking at Argentina
is, is, is, is a bit of looking into

323
00:16:59,838 --> 00:17:00,268
future.

324
00:17:00,693 --> 00:17:01,123
Yeah.

325
00:17:01,173 --> 00:17:02,353
Uh, I totally

326
00:17:02,363 --> 00:17:02,753
agree.

327
00:17:02,753 --> 00:17:07,323
And, um, as you say in the East,
it's much more common for people to

328
00:17:07,323 --> 00:17:11,203
understand that they shouldn't obey
that the road to freedom doesn't go,

329
00:17:11,683 --> 00:17:14,553
never goes through more obedience.

330
00:17:14,883 --> 00:17:19,453
So, so they, the government mandates
stuff there too, but they just don't.

331
00:17:20,323 --> 00:17:26,553
Give a shit the way everyone here does
and, and, um, also, uh, it makes me

332
00:17:26,563 --> 00:17:30,133
think of a Reagan quote, actually,
about that every generation, freedom

333
00:17:30,133 --> 00:17:32,153
is never to be taken for granted.

334
00:17:32,163 --> 00:17:34,103
It's for every generation to fight for.

335
00:17:34,103 --> 00:17:38,973
It's, I'm paraphrasing now, uh, by the
way, I saw a communist party trying

336
00:17:38,973 --> 00:17:44,983
to, uh, gain political ground in
Canada, which, which I find, uh, the,

337
00:17:44,983 --> 00:17:47,043
uh, Uh, where, where Luke was born.

338
00:17:47,043 --> 00:17:50,953
And I find that so hilarious
because like, dude, you're

339
00:17:50,953 --> 00:17:53,043
already living in a commie utopia.

340
00:17:53,063 --> 00:17:56,816
Like it's all Canada's been
communist for a long time.

341
00:17:56,816 --> 00:17:57,016
Right.

342
00:17:57,016 --> 00:17:59,336
That for at least a couple
of years now, I mean,

343
00:17:59,346 --> 00:18:00,266
pure communist.

344
00:18:01,373 --> 00:18:02,293
That, that's why I'm so

345
00:18:02,293 --> 00:18:07,033
thankful for, uh, and that's why it's
important to differentiate between

346
00:18:07,053 --> 00:18:09,433
when you look at the German speaking
world, and it's very important.

347
00:18:09,483 --> 00:18:10,843
It's a huge market.

348
00:18:10,843 --> 00:18:14,180
It's a huge, um, uh,
Bitcoin contingent as well.

349
00:18:14,220 --> 00:18:17,030
Um, and there's many reasons
why Bitcoin is huge in Germany.

350
00:18:17,070 --> 00:18:19,880
There are still people
there who want to live free.

351
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,060
There are still people there who want
to, you know, build quality products.

352
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,485
You know, I always say that if you're,
if If you let the Germans, if you cut

353
00:18:26,485 --> 00:18:31,315
the taxes by 70 percent and if you,
if you just erase 90 percent of the

354
00:18:31,325 --> 00:18:35,645
stupid regulations, the Germans will be,
you know, at least the second biggest

355
00:18:35,745 --> 00:18:37,665
economy within like two weeks again.

356
00:18:38,165 --> 00:18:38,485
Right.

357
00:18:38,855 --> 00:18:42,035
Um, you know, just tell them, you know,
they can build the cars, they can be,

358
00:18:42,115 --> 00:18:46,455
they can go as fast as they want and,
and, and, and they don't care about the,

359
00:18:46,465 --> 00:18:49,935
the, any, any regulations, but, but.

360
00:18:49,935 --> 00:18:50,179
Thanks.

361
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:52,880
When you look at the mentality,
this is quite important.

362
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:58,630
Um, the Swiss are, you know,
way, have a way better system

363
00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:59,680
of governing the Northern EU.

364
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,660
They have a direct democracy.

365
00:19:01,660 --> 00:19:04,090
When you go to Switzerland, you
really have the feeling that people

366
00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:08,440
there still have this idea, at least
this, this, they want to contribute.

367
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,640
And they also want to, to, um,
have their say and their, their,

368
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:13,850
their voice is heard, right?

369
00:19:13,850 --> 00:19:14,254
And you have, you know.

370
00:19:14,555 --> 00:19:19,075
You have techs, techs competition
between the cantons, the states,

371
00:19:19,675 --> 00:19:20,785
Germany is a lot different.

372
00:19:20,785 --> 00:19:25,415
Germany is very, um, you know, there's
a rule you have to obey to the rule.

373
00:19:25,485 --> 00:19:26,585
Everybody obeys to the rule.

374
00:19:26,785 --> 00:19:27,235
Why?

375
00:19:27,405 --> 00:19:27,905
Because there's

376
00:19:27,905 --> 00:19:28,805
a rule, right?

377
00:19:28,805 --> 00:19:29,465
That's Germany.

378
00:19:29,860 --> 00:19:30,740
I, I saw that

379
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,930
in, in Munich, uh, like, uh,
I was crossing the street

380
00:19:34,940 --> 00:19:36,140
and everybody stood still.

381
00:19:36,140 --> 00:19:38,010
I'm like, what the fuck is
wrong with these people?

382
00:19:38,060 --> 00:19:39,130
And there's a red light.

383
00:19:39,470 --> 00:19:40,340
There's no cars.

384
00:19:40,915 --> 00:19:42,815
But everyone just didn't cross the

385
00:19:42,815 --> 00:19:43,215
street.

386
00:19:43,305 --> 00:19:45,235
Like, what's wrong with you guys?

387
00:19:45,675 --> 00:19:46,665
So that's, so that's,

388
00:19:46,915 --> 00:19:48,215
that's, that's Germany.

389
00:19:48,215 --> 00:19:49,275
And also you have to be fair.

390
00:19:49,275 --> 00:19:53,505
Germany is, is, is consists
of like 150 states.

391
00:19:54,218 --> 00:19:55,748
they are also very different.

392
00:19:55,988 --> 00:20:01,068
Yeah, it sounds like a South, Southern
Germany thing to be that obedient.

393
00:20:01,528 --> 00:20:04,218
it's as a whole, the
Germans, they are like that.

394
00:20:04,248 --> 00:20:04,528
Right.

395
00:20:04,688 --> 00:20:09,028
Um, and, and, and I, I love them,
but, but they are like that.

396
00:20:09,028 --> 00:20:12,558
And then here in Austria, it's,
it's, it's different again, right?

397
00:20:12,588 --> 00:20:15,998
We are more like, um, like
the Eastern Europeans, we,

398
00:20:16,038 --> 00:20:17,238
there's a, like, there's a rule.

399
00:20:18,263 --> 00:20:19,293
It's funny that you have a rule.

400
00:20:19,823 --> 00:20:20,393
Interesting.

401
00:20:20,393 --> 00:20:21,173
Thank you for the rule.

402
00:20:21,213 --> 00:20:22,943
It's like, it's more like guidelines.

403
00:20:23,486 --> 00:20:26,956
which is of course it's, it's
when the rules are good, right?

404
00:20:27,586 --> 00:20:31,836
Like, like when the rules make sense,
then of course a country like Germany

405
00:20:31,876 --> 00:20:34,096
is extremely efficient at what they do.

406
00:20:34,476 --> 00:20:38,556
When the rules are stupid, then they
are extremely efficient at enforcing

407
00:20:38,556 --> 00:20:40,826
stupid rules, which is, which is a

408
00:20:40,826 --> 00:20:42,206
horrible situation to be in.

409
00:20:42,481 --> 00:20:43,881
Yeah, I'm trying to think

410
00:20:43,881 --> 00:20:49,541
of a historical example of Germany being
efficient and horrible at the same time.

411
00:20:49,871 --> 00:20:50,491
Hmm.

412
00:20:50,821 --> 00:20:51,151
Yeah.

413
00:20:51,845 --> 00:20:53,325
Hey, maybe, uh, maybe from one thing

414
00:20:53,325 --> 00:20:56,835
to another off of that brilliant,
uh, brilliant segway or

415
00:20:56,835 --> 00:20:58,015
attempted segway by Knut there.

416
00:20:59,641 --> 00:21:03,651
Niko, so we were, we last saw each other
specifically in the Madeira airport.

417
00:21:03,661 --> 00:21:07,721
The, the actual moment that,
uh, that the new all time high

418
00:21:07,721 --> 00:21:09,971
was broken in the, in, in Euro.

419
00:21:10,896 --> 00:21:13,606
Not the, not the, for the
rest of the world, the U.

420
00:21:13,606 --> 00:21:13,766
S.

421
00:21:13,766 --> 00:21:18,076
dollar all time high was considered more
important generally, and we, we all know

422
00:21:18,126 --> 00:21:21,486
as well that the all time high hasn't
actually been broken in purchasing power

423
00:21:21,486 --> 00:21:26,306
terms, but we'll leave that aside, but
everything since then has sort of been

424
00:21:26,306 --> 00:21:32,426
this kind of flat waiting, the having
sort of happened, but nothing has really

425
00:21:32,446 --> 00:21:37,391
happened, uh, uh, At the same time,
though, there's all this building going

426
00:21:37,391 --> 00:21:43,831
on and, uh, and kind of a, uh, mixed
optimism, pessimism, something like that.

427
00:21:44,101 --> 00:21:50,671
So what's your feeling about the state
of Bitcoin right now and maybe short

428
00:21:50,671 --> 00:21:52,131
term outlook on how things look?

429
00:21:53,015 --> 00:21:54,105
I think it's important what you

430
00:21:54,105 --> 00:21:56,125
said about the purchasing power.

431
00:21:56,275 --> 00:21:59,805
Um, when you look at Bitcoin
price in, in gold, we haven't

432
00:22:00,415 --> 00:22:01,675
reached an all time high yet.

433
00:22:02,185 --> 00:22:07,325
Um, and it really, honestly, that
time, It shocked me a little because

434
00:22:07,325 --> 00:22:08,725
it wasn't just about Bitcoin.

435
00:22:08,725 --> 00:22:13,055
It was, we had ultimizing the, in the
stock markets, we had ultimizing gold and

436
00:22:13,545 --> 00:22:18,225
ultimizing Bitcoins all at the same time,
which for me, it just means one thing that

437
00:22:18,225 --> 00:22:20,125
the basement is going stronger than ever.

438
00:22:20,615 --> 00:22:25,465
Um, and that really, really, you
know, this combined with about

439
00:22:25,465 --> 00:22:29,415
two hours of Michael Saylor really
gets you, gets you thinking.

440
00:22:29,945 --> 00:22:38,175
Um, and, and, and, I really like for me,
this has been a process of about almost

441
00:22:38,175 --> 00:22:40,505
15 years, not even starting with Bitcoin.

442
00:22:40,975 --> 00:22:44,805
And I have arrived at a point
where I don't consider my paper

443
00:22:44,805 --> 00:22:47,815
money to be worth a lot anymore.

444
00:22:48,075 --> 00:22:50,805
You know, I still hold too much
of it and I get nervous all the

445
00:22:50,815 --> 00:22:52,940
time, but you know, it's a process.

446
00:22:53,456 --> 00:22:55,796
and I think that this is the most
important trend right now when you

447
00:22:55,796 --> 00:23:01,976
look at, when you look at, um, we've,
I, I'm talking about Argentina so much

448
00:23:01,976 --> 00:23:06,166
because in 2008, I actually lived in
Argentina and I, and I saw, um, the

449
00:23:06,166 --> 00:23:10,986
beginning of the inflation that just
now, uh, escalated 10 years later,

450
00:23:11,156 --> 00:23:12,566
even more than 10 years later, right?

451
00:23:12,566 --> 00:23:16,996
When I, when I was there, I could buy,
I could buy four pesos with one euro.

452
00:23:17,326 --> 00:23:21,826
Now it's, I don't know, it's, I hundreds,
I, I don't even know how much it is, but

453
00:23:21,831 --> 00:23:26,776
it's, it's, it's enormous and still then
efficient was super high there, you know?

454
00:23:26,806 --> 00:23:30,226
Um, and when you would, would order
pizza, you would get a new menu every two

455
00:23:30,226 --> 00:23:32,146
weeks with, with, with the prices rising.

456
00:23:32,146 --> 00:23:35,706
And this is something that I can
see now here in, in, in the heart of

457
00:23:35,711 --> 00:23:37,476
Europe and in Vienna and in Germany.

458
00:23:38,146 --> 00:23:42,916
Um, and it's, it's really, it's really
something that, that I worry about a lot.

459
00:23:42,916 --> 00:23:46,366
So when you ask me about Bitcoin,
honestly, this is the, this

460
00:23:46,366 --> 00:23:47,747
is, this is what Bitcoin is.

461
00:23:48,616 --> 00:23:55,206
Been, um, built for this is, this is
literally, I mean, I, I, I have to

462
00:23:55,326 --> 00:23:59,056
like, that's why I'm so happy to talk
to you guys because, because I really

463
00:23:59,061 --> 00:24:02,896
have to moderate myself when I'm, you
know, I, I get interviewed and on,

464
00:24:02,901 --> 00:24:06,316
on, on television and, and stuff like
that, and I have to, like, they ask

465
00:24:06,321 --> 00:24:07,726
me like, to, what are I gonna do now?

466
00:24:07,726 --> 00:24:12,346
And I'm like, and my head is like, bit,
bit, bit, bit quiet, but you can't be, you

467
00:24:12,346 --> 00:24:14,956
know, you, you, you can't go this fast.

468
00:24:14,956 --> 00:24:18,141
You have to be, you have to be, you
have to know your audience, right?

469
00:24:18,886 --> 00:24:20,456
And, and,

470
00:24:20,736 --> 00:24:22,066
worry about our audience.

471
00:24:22,106 --> 00:24:24,836
You can go Bitcoin, Bitcoin,
Bitcoin as much as you like here.

472
00:24:25,456 --> 00:24:29,716
um, and, and it has, it has
been, you know, built for this.

473
00:24:29,716 --> 00:24:33,006
And now when you ask me about the
state of Bitcoin, um, you know, I

474
00:24:33,006 --> 00:24:39,206
might, I, there is, this is not just
Michael, um, I do have a series going

475
00:24:39,206 --> 00:24:44,456
on with, with, with a guy called Peter
Kotosek, who is an Austrian, um, um,

476
00:24:44,596 --> 00:24:46,776
entrepreneur, and he's also an artist.

477
00:24:47,336 --> 00:24:50,586
Uh, the thing is he's 84 years old.

478
00:24:51,456 --> 00:24:53,806
And he has been a Bitcoiner since 2012.

479
00:24:54,756 --> 00:24:58,886
He made all his money as an entrepreneur,
um, in the, in the, in the boom

480
00:24:58,926 --> 00:25:02,096
phases of the, of the computer,
not the internet, the computer.

481
00:25:02,096 --> 00:25:05,536
So he's the guy who built basically with
his company, he built all the computers

482
00:25:05,536 --> 00:25:08,296
in the governments and in the banks
here that are still running basically.

483
00:25:08,786 --> 00:25:13,236
So running on old IBM computers
with like two, two, two, uh,

484
00:25:13,246 --> 00:25:15,116
megabytes of, of, of storage.

485
00:25:15,676 --> 00:25:18,106
The whole financial system is
basically based on that stuff.

486
00:25:18,481 --> 00:25:18,811
Right.

487
00:25:18,811 --> 00:25:20,151
The Fiat financial

488
00:25:20,241 --> 00:25:22,561
So he's trying to redeem
himself, in other words.

489
00:25:22,771 --> 00:25:26,461
No, I mean, and he has this, and
he is so interesting and I'm, I've

490
00:25:26,461 --> 00:25:31,740
been doing, I think about, um, 12,
like I've been doing, I've been

491
00:25:31,741 --> 00:25:34,001
18, 18 episodes with him already.

492
00:25:34,641 --> 00:25:40,101
Um, so basically dumping his brain and
he, he has this perception of Bitcoin as

493
00:25:40,281 --> 00:25:42,261
capital just like Michael Saylor does.

494
00:25:43,071 --> 00:25:44,831
And I think this is extremely important.

495
00:25:44,881 --> 00:25:48,341
Um, I think that this is the
next, the next step in a, in

496
00:25:48,341 --> 00:25:50,241
a, in a very, very broad sense.

497
00:25:50,731 --> 00:25:55,501
I think we are basically for the next
10 years, we're going to still be in the

498
00:25:56,141 --> 00:26:02,441
store of value phase by meaning that we
just first, we do have to find a price.

499
00:26:03,151 --> 00:26:03,471
Right.

500
00:26:03,991 --> 00:26:07,091
I get, I get asked, I did two interviews.

501
00:26:07,091 --> 00:26:13,081
One called me up, said there is a
German, um, um, uh, sporting goods brand.

502
00:26:13,111 --> 00:26:14,681
They want to sell their stuff for Bitcoin.

503
00:26:14,681 --> 00:26:18,821
And then the other guy is like,
should we put Bitcoin into hotels

504
00:26:19,251 --> 00:26:20,991
and use it as a currency in hotels?

505
00:26:21,051 --> 00:26:24,921
And I'm like, yeah, all these ideas
are possible, but I still like, like,

506
00:26:24,951 --> 00:26:28,216
I, I still don't believe that this
is going to be the next 10 years.

507
00:26:28,246 --> 00:26:31,036
I don't think that, because the
question always comes up, why should

508
00:26:31,036 --> 00:26:34,856
people pay in Bitcoin if they believe
that it goes up forever, basically.

509
00:26:35,106 --> 00:26:35,886
And this is true.

510
00:26:36,456 --> 00:26:40,916
Um, so I do pay Bitcoin because
I like to do that, but, um,

511
00:26:40,996 --> 00:26:42,306
it's, it's more like a hobby.

512
00:26:42,836 --> 00:26:48,106
Um, and I, I don't want to parrot
Michael Saylor, but, but I think what

513
00:26:48,116 --> 00:26:52,096
he's saying is basically true that
we have entered the gold rush phase,

514
00:26:52,436 --> 00:26:54,246
the Bitcoin rush phase of Bitcoin.

515
00:26:54,626 --> 00:26:58,256
Um, and, and it's very important for us
to, that's why I said in the beginning,

516
00:26:58,266 --> 00:27:03,906
it's very, for me, it's almost when
you go outside 90, 99 percent of

517
00:27:03,906 --> 00:27:05,721
people, 99 I haven't seen it yet.

518
00:27:05,861 --> 00:27:09,491
So we think it's, it's all so
obvious and it is obvious once you

519
00:27:09,491 --> 00:27:14,151
have, you know, um, you know, put
your mind to it, but we're still so

520
00:27:14,381 --> 00:27:16,021
early, which is also a meme, right?

521
00:27:16,101 --> 00:27:20,511
Um, but we are early in this, in this
phase, but we are now, and I think

522
00:27:20,511 --> 00:27:24,191
this is important and this is also
the reason why we saw the price go up.

523
00:27:24,261 --> 00:27:27,011
Um, we have officially entered.

524
00:27:27,831 --> 00:27:30,751
Let's just say the official
age of Bitcoin, right?

525
00:27:30,841 --> 00:27:36,771
It's now an official asset class
recognized by the most important capital

526
00:27:36,781 --> 00:27:39,001
markets and regulators in the world.

527
00:27:40,131 --> 00:27:40,831
That's new.

528
00:27:41,701 --> 00:27:45,521
When I started doing my podcast, there was
still a risk that this would never happen.

529
00:27:46,191 --> 00:27:51,361
And now it happened, but it also teaches
you that just because that just happened,

530
00:27:51,361 --> 00:27:54,661
it's not like everybody out there will,
you know, switch on their heads and

531
00:27:54,661 --> 00:27:55,831
say, ah, I should buy some Bitcoin.

532
00:27:56,121 --> 00:27:57,051
And now it's real.

533
00:27:57,061 --> 00:27:57,161
You

534
00:27:57,161 --> 00:27:58,461
know, it just, it takes time.

535
00:27:59,416 --> 00:28:00,586
Yeah, absolutely.

536
00:28:01,616 --> 00:28:06,036
You mentioned store of value there, and
I have a slightly nerdy question to ask

537
00:28:06,036 --> 00:28:10,326
you as a fellow Austrian economics nerd.

538
00:28:10,716 --> 00:28:15,736
Because I had this thought about store
of value and what's wrong with the term.

539
00:28:15,736 --> 00:28:19,766
Because the term rubs me the wrong
way, since value is subjective, right?

540
00:28:19,896 --> 00:28:21,346
So you can't store value.

541
00:28:21,526 --> 00:28:23,006
It's inherently subjective.

542
00:28:23,241 --> 00:28:24,321
Wrong in a sense.

543
00:28:24,801 --> 00:28:27,201
Uh, so here we are out there.

544
00:28:27,241 --> 00:28:33,681
Uh, and Mises in human action describes
money as a first and foremost, a medium

545
00:28:33,681 --> 00:28:38,811
of exchange with sort of like, uh,
so if you're a Mises fan, you might

546
00:28:40,161 --> 00:28:45,631
Misinterpret Bitcoin and hop onto the
Bitcoin cash crap or like, so, so the

547
00:28:45,631 --> 00:28:52,338
way I like to sort of debunk that to
myself is describing, it's, it's just

548
00:28:52,338 --> 00:28:54,878
the insight that, uh, medium exchange.

549
00:28:55,373 --> 00:28:58,473
Uh, can be through four
dimensions and not only three.

550
00:28:58,993 --> 00:29:03,233
So store of value is actually just
medium of exchange through time.

551
00:29:04,223 --> 00:29:09,323
Uh, and you are trading, saving is
just the act of trading of exchanging

552
00:29:09,323 --> 00:29:11,193
something with your future self.

553
00:29:12,213 --> 00:29:16,223
So you're exchanging stuff with
what is practically another person.

554
00:29:16,223 --> 00:29:20,823
If you wait 15 years, all the cells
in your body have been renewed and

555
00:29:20,823 --> 00:29:24,573
you're, you're another person and
that's the person you're trading with.

556
00:29:24,953 --> 00:29:28,753
So store of value is an
inferior term to medium of

557
00:29:28,753 --> 00:29:30,153
exchange over time in my head.

558
00:29:30,353 --> 00:29:30,953
What do you think?

559
00:29:33,850 --> 00:29:39,540
So, so I, I always, as a,
as a media person, I always

560
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,723
think about can we use this?

561
00:29:42,863 --> 00:29:44,353
Will people understand it?

562
00:29:44,503 --> 00:29:48,723
And then the question that you
had had, I think that it's, it's

563
00:29:48,723 --> 00:29:50,053
a very interesting perspective.

564
00:29:50,193 --> 00:29:51,293
Let's just put it this way.

565
00:29:51,663 --> 00:29:56,243
I think if I, if I would have to sit in a,
in a, in a talk show and explain to people

566
00:29:56,243 --> 00:29:57,963
that, no, no, it's not a store failure.

567
00:29:57,963 --> 00:29:59,673
It's a medium of exchange over time.

568
00:29:59,923 --> 00:30:02,783
I'm exchanging, um, with my future self.

569
00:30:03,183 --> 00:30:04,083
Don't you get it?

570
00:30:04,463 --> 00:30:06,973
Um, then it's, it's, it's
going to be very hard.

571
00:30:07,453 --> 00:30:09,213
On the other hand, people understand that.

572
00:30:09,433 --> 00:30:10,383
Why do they save?

573
00:30:10,738 --> 00:30:10,988
right?

574
00:30:10,988 --> 00:30:12,048
Maybe store of value.

575
00:30:12,128 --> 00:30:12,698
You're right.

576
00:30:12,858 --> 00:30:18,158
Probably store of value might be, might
be the wrong term, but saving, I think

577
00:30:18,158 --> 00:30:20,208
people do get saving and saving does not.

578
00:30:21,205 --> 00:30:22,775
use the word value, right?

579
00:30:23,265 --> 00:30:27,635
Um, I think from a Misesian perspective,
when you look at the regression theorem,

580
00:30:27,715 --> 00:30:32,995
he did say that it needs to find,
um, um, a value at some point, right?

581
00:30:32,995 --> 00:30:35,595
That would be the idea
of, um, the pizza day.

582
00:30:36,435 --> 00:30:36,935
Yes,

583
00:30:37,325 --> 00:30:37,715
and

584
00:30:37,785 --> 00:30:39,465
it proves the regression theorem.

585
00:30:39,465 --> 00:30:42,115
It doesn't, doesn't like this discarded.

586
00:30:42,125 --> 00:30:42,775
It proves it.

587
00:30:43,195 --> 00:30:44,265
exactly, and, and it's like,

588
00:30:44,295 --> 00:30:47,045
and the funny thing about the pizza
day, it's, it's, it's that we, we

589
00:30:47,055 --> 00:30:51,035
celebrate the pizza day, but 90
percent of the people don't know the

590
00:30:51,035 --> 00:30:52,815
regressive theorem, but we still do it.

591
00:30:53,475 --> 00:30:56,195
Actually, by the way, did you know
that the first, that the first

592
00:30:56,205 --> 00:30:59,935
transaction that has ever taken
place on the internet proper?

593
00:31:00,675 --> 00:31:02,575
was also for ordering a pizza.

594
00:31:03,045 --> 00:31:03,635
Oh, really?

595
00:31:05,015 --> 00:31:09,095
So the human race has an obsession
with ordering pizza online.

596
00:31:09,705 --> 00:31:10,385
Yeah, yeah.

597
00:31:10,445 --> 00:31:11,465
And pineapple top.

598
00:31:11,983 --> 00:31:14,220
Niko, do you want a
Mises regression theorem?

599
00:31:14,220 --> 00:31:17,760
We covered this with Kansa as well,
but for anyone who didn't see that one.

600
00:31:18,025 --> 00:31:19,575
So basically, basically,

601
00:31:19,575 --> 00:31:22,975
and I hope that I'm doing this justice.

602
00:31:23,175 --> 00:31:27,495
The idea is that you can only use
something as a medium of exchange or

603
00:31:27,495 --> 00:31:30,190
as money if it had value yesterday.

604
00:31:30,750 --> 00:31:34,690
So you have to find something that you,
that you can, that you can reference to.

605
00:31:34,990 --> 00:31:39,450
And this is something that has been,
um, has been discussed a lot in Bitcoin

606
00:31:39,450 --> 00:31:43,900
circles, um, because it's not, so
basically when you look at a traditional

607
00:31:43,930 --> 00:31:46,060
currency, it all starts with gold.

608
00:31:46,725 --> 00:31:48,115
And why does it start with gold?

609
00:31:48,115 --> 00:31:52,785
Because at some point, you know, gold was,
was valued for its non monetary purpose,

610
00:31:52,835 --> 00:31:54,895
but it was store of value in that gold.

611
00:31:54,895 --> 00:31:59,045
And at some point you've figured out that
we can exchange the gold and then, and

612
00:31:59,045 --> 00:32:03,475
then you can, you can, you can regress
the value of, of, of fiat currency.

613
00:32:03,515 --> 00:32:05,495
You can still regress it back to gold.

614
00:32:05,655 --> 00:32:08,205
And, and that also applies to Bitcoin.

615
00:32:08,205 --> 00:32:12,325
If you can exchange it for that fiat
currency or gold, then the value

616
00:32:12,325 --> 00:32:16,135
basically You know, transacted in the,
in the, in the regression theorem.

617
00:32:16,555 --> 00:32:18,175
Um, I hope this

618
00:32:18,225 --> 00:32:18,745
did it justice.

619
00:32:18,885 --> 00:32:19,015
I

620
00:32:19,075 --> 00:32:20,825
I would put it slightly differently

621
00:32:21,215 --> 00:32:26,235
and say that there has to be,
logically, has to be a first point

622
00:32:26,655 --> 00:32:28,775
where the thing was used as money.

623
00:32:29,176 --> 00:32:31,606
Where the thing was used
as a medium of exchange.

624
00:32:31,966 --> 00:32:35,836
There has to be, someone would
have had to want the thing from

625
00:32:35,836 --> 00:32:39,546
the other guy and accepted it as a
medium of exchange at some point.

626
00:32:39,816 --> 00:32:44,791
If you just Do that, had to have
value yesterday, if you backtrack

627
00:32:44,791 --> 00:32:45,811
back to the starting point.

628
00:32:46,101 --> 00:32:50,341
And the thing about Pizzaday is that
for the first time in human history,

629
00:32:50,341 --> 00:32:55,481
we have an actual first transaction
that we can point to that proves Mises

630
00:32:55,511 --> 00:32:57,401
Regression Theorem, that there was a

631
00:32:57,411 --> 00:32:59,361
first use case.

632
00:32:59,786 --> 00:33:02,536
and you have to, and in order
to do that, you have to,

633
00:33:02,576 --> 00:33:07,306
you have to, you know, put some
value, somebody needs to put

634
00:33:07,306 --> 00:33:08,566
some value on that thing, right.

635
00:33:08,566 --> 00:33:12,326
In order to, to exchange it, even if
you, if you do it for a joke, even if

636
00:33:12,326 --> 00:33:13,796
you do it for a joke for pizza, right.

637
00:33:13,836 --> 00:33:17,846
If you, and, and what you said,
Knut, I want to go back there because

638
00:33:17,986 --> 00:33:21,106
it's important because it made
me extremely bullish on Bitcoin.

639
00:33:22,306 --> 00:33:27,256
Which is not news, but the idea of
being able to plan into the future with

640
00:33:28,386 --> 00:33:30,246
at least certainty on the money side.

641
00:33:30,286 --> 00:33:31,176
You never have the certainty.

642
00:33:31,186 --> 00:33:34,636
You know, I don't have the certainty
that I can, I'm alive in 15 years.

643
00:33:35,261 --> 00:33:39,251
Um, but, but I, today I don't have
the certainty that I'm alive and

644
00:33:39,251 --> 00:33:41,781
I also don't have the certainty
that the money will be there.

645
00:33:42,441 --> 00:33:46,541
And, and I think this is what
makes Bitcoin so powerful because,

646
00:33:46,761 --> 00:33:51,619
because people don't understand that
they don't have the certainty yet.

647
00:33:52,590 --> 00:33:55,195
So we grow up thinking
we have the certainty.

648
00:33:55,605 --> 00:33:58,915
We grew up thinking when you save the
money it will be there in the future.

649
00:33:59,955 --> 00:34:03,835
And once you've been living through
failing fiat currency regimes,

650
00:34:04,305 --> 00:34:05,645
you know that this is a lie.

651
00:34:06,275 --> 00:34:09,275
People in Argentina know that this is a
lie, people in Turkey know that this is a

652
00:34:09,285 --> 00:34:14,610
lie, but people in Western Europe were For
the same reason, you know, socialism and

653
00:34:14,620 --> 00:34:19,380
communism are now, uh, still going strong.

654
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:21,930
They still don't know that this is alive.

655
00:34:22,380 --> 00:34:26,890
Um, and, and it started to dawn on people.

656
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:28,820
It started to dawn on people.

657
00:34:28,940 --> 00:34:36,227
And once you have reached a point where
you lost faith in the currency, then you

658
00:34:36,227 --> 00:34:39,246
start Basically questioning everything.

659
00:34:40,336 --> 00:34:45,296
You can see this, you can see this in,
um, in, in Bitcoin circles as well, right?

660
00:34:45,296 --> 00:34:50,976
There's a phase for, for many Bitcoiners
where they first, they work a thousand

661
00:34:50,976 --> 00:34:52,916
hours on Bitcoin at the currency system.

662
00:34:52,986 --> 00:34:54,316
And then they say, Oh shit.

663
00:34:54,386 --> 00:34:54,686
Okay.

664
00:34:54,686 --> 00:34:55,246
I got it now.

665
00:34:55,246 --> 00:34:55,636
I got it.

666
00:34:55,836 --> 00:34:57,796
I have something that's absolutely scarce.

667
00:34:57,796 --> 00:34:59,276
I'm going to save in Bitcoin.

668
00:34:59,276 --> 00:35:03,076
And now I have time to look at the
food and the weather and whatever.

669
00:35:03,076 --> 00:35:05,866
And then they start to
be experts for a while.

670
00:35:06,417 --> 00:35:11,707
and, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's,
it's a start and I think that Bitcoin

671
00:35:11,937 --> 00:35:18,587
is so powerful because it shows you
an alternative and the idea of saving

672
00:35:18,967 --> 00:35:22,877
or transacting with your future
self is basically saving, right?

673
00:35:23,582 --> 00:35:26,362
Um, and this is something that
always motivated me because I

674
00:35:26,362 --> 00:35:27,942
think that people are savers.

675
00:35:28,432 --> 00:35:30,292
I don't think people need to be investors.

676
00:35:30,772 --> 00:35:33,952
Uh, I think that, you know, investing
in the stock market, investing in

677
00:35:33,952 --> 00:35:39,682
real estate only for the purpose
of saving is basically stupid.

678
00:35:40,262 --> 00:35:42,492
That's why I started with gold.

679
00:35:42,972 --> 00:35:46,182
but people who are very,
very, very, very well.

680
00:35:46,462 --> 00:35:50,982
It took me a while to understand like
the whole fiat money investing scheme.

681
00:35:50,982 --> 00:35:54,992
There are so many interests there
because there's so much money to be

682
00:35:54,992 --> 00:35:57,262
made by talking and managing and,

683
00:35:57,332 --> 00:35:57,542
and.

684
00:35:58,827 --> 00:36:00,587
if I may interrupt, like,

685
00:36:00,847 --> 00:36:05,217
the way I see it is that people only
invest into the stock market and

686
00:36:05,277 --> 00:36:07,227
property because the money is broken.

687
00:36:07,447 --> 00:36:10,257
That's why we're forced to invest

688
00:36:10,257 --> 00:36:12,567
in stocks and real estate, right?

689
00:36:12,992 --> 00:36:14,362
but we've been doing it for so long

690
00:36:14,372 --> 00:36:19,252
that there is a whole industry that's
built around in this, this need

691
00:36:19,292 --> 00:36:21,552
for investing your broken money.

692
00:36:22,222 --> 00:36:26,512
And this industry is opposed
to Bitcoin every level.

693
00:36:26,612 --> 00:36:27,822
It's not just the government.

694
00:36:27,842 --> 00:36:29,192
It's not just the central banks.

695
00:36:29,262 --> 00:36:33,632
It's everybody who's been talking
about ETFs and, um, dollar cost

696
00:36:33,672 --> 00:36:38,612
averaging into stocks and real estate
and, and, uh, the, the, the finance.

697
00:36:39,292 --> 00:36:39,982
people, right?

698
00:36:39,982 --> 00:36:41,872
They, they think they've figured it out.

699
00:36:42,162 --> 00:36:45,002
And now Bitcoin basically
solves the problem that they're

700
00:36:45,002 --> 00:36:46,332
solving very complicated.

701
00:36:46,532 --> 00:36:50,672
Bitcoin solves it in a, in a simple
and easy way, but they don't want that

702
00:36:50,672 --> 00:36:56,912
because they're the whole edifice, the
whole building of, of, of, of thoughts

703
00:36:56,952 --> 00:36:59,092
and ideas is built on the whole fiat

704
00:37:00,002 --> 00:37:00,922
on failing fiat.

705
00:37:01,122 --> 00:37:01,242
It

706
00:40:17,386 --> 00:40:18,846
Yeah, so, uh, another

707
00:40:18,906 --> 00:40:23,346
more philosophical question, if
you will, um, in your mind, in a

708
00:40:23,996 --> 00:40:28,106
hyperbitcoinized world, is there even
room for a financial sector at all,

709
00:40:28,176 --> 00:40:29,796
or does that just disappear?

710
00:40:30,957 --> 00:40:32,257
is a very, very good question.

711
00:40:34,513 --> 00:40:36,073
It's, it's a lot smaller.

712
00:40:37,403 --> 00:40:38,503
It's a lot smaller.

713
00:40:38,613 --> 00:40:42,733
Um, when you look at, when you look at the
history of the so called financial sector,

714
00:40:42,733 --> 00:40:45,573
it hasn't been this big for a long time.

715
00:40:45,643 --> 00:40:52,103
Um, uh, so this is a very, very fiat
phenomenon that 70 years ago, banks were

716
00:40:52,103 --> 00:40:53,883
not the biggest buildings in every city.

717
00:40:54,893 --> 00:40:59,183
Um, when you look at, when you, when
you watch, when you watch Wall Street,

718
00:40:59,193 --> 00:41:00,993
the first movie right from the eighties.

719
00:41:01,703 --> 00:41:02,413
Gordon Gekko.

720
00:41:03,213 --> 00:41:09,723
Gordon Gekko, the first scene is an old
guy stomping into the office and saying

721
00:41:09,833 --> 00:41:12,983
the whole country has gone to hell
since Nixon went off the gold standard.

722
00:41:13,568 --> 00:41:13,738
Right.

723
00:41:13,738 --> 00:41:14,568
That's the first scene.

724
00:41:14,568 --> 00:41:16,538
That's basically setting
the whole movie up.

725
00:41:16,858 --> 00:41:17,368
They got it.

726
00:41:17,378 --> 00:41:21,188
Maybe on a subconscious, uh, um,
but they got it in the eighties.

727
00:41:21,528 --> 00:41:26,708
They knew that this was basically that the
peak, uh, of the fiat money experiment.

728
00:41:27,755 --> 00:41:30,875
so do we need a financial sector?

729
00:41:31,885 --> 00:41:34,775
Absolutely not in that,
in that, in that size.

730
00:41:34,805 --> 00:41:37,685
And when you look at, when you look at
Europe, I mean, when you look at, uh,

731
00:41:38,525 --> 00:41:43,995
Germany and Austria who had very, very
hard currencies and the people in Germany

732
00:41:43,995 --> 00:41:46,845
and Austria are still money savers, right?

733
00:41:48,165 --> 00:41:52,315
I don't know how, I think in Finland is
actually lots of stocks now, but in, in,

734
00:41:52,355 --> 00:41:57,745
in, uh, uh, in Germany and Austria, 77
percent of the people even own stocks.

735
00:41:58,115 --> 00:41:59,655
So the financial.

736
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,070
The financial industry in Germany is
always complaining about the fact that

737
00:42:04,070 --> 00:42:07,480
Germans don't even want to partake
in the financial industry, right?

738
00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:09,290
So it's actually very, very small.

739
00:42:09,340 --> 00:42:13,550
Um, and there is no real
capital markets in Europe at

740
00:42:13,590 --> 00:42:15,310
any level compared to, to the U.

741
00:42:15,310 --> 00:42:15,520
S.

742
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,510
because people still
don't want to do that.

743
00:42:18,510 --> 00:42:22,260
They just want to put their
money in the bank and send

744
00:42:22,260 --> 00:42:23,580
it to the future self, right?

745
00:42:23,610 --> 00:42:23,810
That's

746
00:42:23,980 --> 00:42:25,850
exactly what you talked about, Knut.

747
00:42:26,734 --> 00:42:27,034
Yeah.

748
00:42:27,034 --> 00:42:28,234
And, uh, the,

749
00:42:28,364 --> 00:42:33,559
like, it used to be that the entrepreneur
employed, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Uh, hired

750
00:42:33,639 --> 00:42:38,279
an economist to do the numbers for
him and now it's the other way around.

751
00:42:38,289 --> 00:42:44,179
The entrepreneur has to go to a fucking
TV show like the Dragon's Den and beg for

752
00:42:44,179 --> 00:42:49,659
money basically, or beg VC investors to
like, so you have to beg the people who

753
00:42:49,679 --> 00:42:54,219
should actually be the servants for money.

754
00:42:56,079 --> 00:42:59,649
And by the way, do you know what
country in the world has the world

755
00:42:59,649 --> 00:43:05,979
record of number of economists,
uh, uh, employed by the state ever?

756
00:43:06,934 --> 00:43:08,334
Of course, the Soviet Union.

757
00:43:08,489 --> 00:43:08,949
Yes.

758
00:43:09,699 --> 00:43:12,279
That's a good, you have
won tonight's star prize.

759
00:43:12,374 --> 00:43:17,704
Um, I know this from Rahim Dagestan again,
who told me, told me, but it makes sense.

760
00:43:17,714 --> 00:43:20,134
It makes a lot of sense, you
know, because, you know, because

761
00:43:20,214 --> 00:43:22,334
economists are basically completely

762
00:43:22,334 --> 00:43:22,734
useless.

763
00:43:23,069 --> 00:43:24,359
Yeah, but it's the same thing.

764
00:43:24,369 --> 00:43:25,099
Like, as you

765
00:43:25,099 --> 00:43:29,789
say, the bankers, uh, banks are the,
uh, taking over the city centers

766
00:43:29,789 --> 00:43:31,649
of the world and it is communism.

767
00:43:31,819 --> 00:43:32,634
It's, it is, it is communism.

768
00:43:33,904 --> 00:43:37,614
A, a very, at least a very
similar phenomena when, when

769
00:43:37,614 --> 00:43:43,234
economists all of a sudden became,
become a, uh, uh, an elite class

770
00:43:43,234 --> 00:43:43,894
of people.

771
00:43:44,348 --> 00:43:45,098
So it makes more

772
00:43:45,098 --> 00:43:45,428
sense.

773
00:43:45,458 --> 00:43:48,418
It makes more sense when you, when
you don't think about communism

774
00:43:48,418 --> 00:43:52,688
and socialism, but you think about
the managerial classes, basically.

775
00:43:53,058 --> 00:43:57,798
So you have people in offices who
think that they can design stuff.

776
00:43:58,618 --> 00:44:01,948
It may be politicians, it may be
economists, it may be bankers.

777
00:44:02,718 --> 00:44:05,728
Um, but the problem with the
fiat money system that is that it

778
00:44:05,768 --> 00:44:07,928
gives the bankers enormous power.

779
00:44:07,928 --> 00:44:10,958
And, and of course, they don't
want to give that power away.

780
00:44:11,898 --> 00:44:16,108
And, and I don't know enough about,
you know, the real high levels

781
00:44:16,118 --> 00:44:20,038
of finance to think about, like,
to, to come to a conclusion here.

782
00:44:20,078 --> 00:44:25,107
It's, it's, but, but there is something
I can tell you that from my, from my

783
00:44:25,107 --> 00:44:29,857
own, um, encounters with, like high
level bankers that, that they, like with.

784
00:44:30,292 --> 00:44:35,052
Other people, um, I think they
instinctively know that they don't

785
00:44:35,062 --> 00:44:37,842
need, that they don't want Bitcoin
because Bitcoin is bad for their

786
00:44:37,842 --> 00:44:39,682
business and bad for their power.

787
00:44:39,912 --> 00:44:42,552
So they just, they, they
want like shit coins.

788
00:44:42,552 --> 00:44:46,012
They can, they can use them to,
to build products, you know?

789
00:44:46,781 --> 00:44:48,361
But they started out as banks, right?

790
00:44:48,361 --> 00:44:51,641
That's why I said, I mean, in the
end, I do think that there is going

791
00:44:51,641 --> 00:44:53,341
to be banks who custody Bitcoin.

792
00:44:53,341 --> 00:44:56,571
I know that's a, it's a
touchy subject, but I mean, we

793
00:44:56,571 --> 00:44:58,231
already have those honestly.

794
00:44:58,901 --> 00:45:02,781
So, so, so classical banks, traditional
banks will, will do that too.

795
00:45:03,341 --> 00:45:04,951
But I think it's still a long way off.

796
00:45:04,981 --> 00:45:08,936
Um, you know, It's,
it's, it's, I don't know.

797
00:45:09,036 --> 00:45:13,476
I really, I mean, but yeah, the idea, the
idea of a, of a, of no financial sector,

798
00:45:13,486 --> 00:45:14,896
a very, very small financial sector.

799
00:45:14,906 --> 00:45:15,726
Of course it makes sense.

800
00:45:15,726 --> 00:45:21,136
I mean, when you look at, when you look
at the idea of having, having hundreds

801
00:45:21,136 --> 00:45:24,746
of thousands of people just pushing
around paper to trade money around, it

802
00:45:24,746 --> 00:45:27,116
makes absolutely no, there's no point.

803
00:45:27,741 --> 00:45:28,041
no.

804
00:45:28,041 --> 00:45:29,601
There's nothing productive being done.

805
00:45:29,751 --> 00:45:29,961
Like

806
00:45:30,201 --> 00:45:31,341
there's nothing being built.

807
00:45:31,341 --> 00:45:31,761
There's no.

808
00:45:32,431 --> 00:45:35,941
There's no overarching, you
know, boon to humanity because

809
00:45:35,961 --> 00:45:36,951
people are doing this.

810
00:45:37,206 --> 00:45:37,616
Exactly.

811
00:45:37,616 --> 00:45:42,156
And you know who gets that,
funnily enough, the leftists.

812
00:45:42,821 --> 00:45:46,411
Yeah, they get it, it's just that
they have the wrong, they draw

813
00:45:46,411 --> 00:45:47,851
the wrong conclusions about it.

814
00:45:48,306 --> 00:45:50,106
So they, they, their conclusions,

815
00:45:50,366 --> 00:45:55,316
and this is why, why, um, why the,
the, the capitalists and the banks

816
00:45:55,366 --> 00:45:59,276
and the governments, they don't have
a problem with, with leftist protest

817
00:45:59,276 --> 00:46:02,826
and vokism and stuff is because
whatever they do, it doesn't really

818
00:46:02,826 --> 00:46:04,956
matter that the topic, it always

819
00:46:04,956 --> 00:46:06,076
leads to more government.

820
00:46:06,871 --> 00:46:08,231
Of course, the solution,

821
00:46:08,321 --> 00:46:09,841
the solution is always communism.

822
00:46:10,111 --> 00:46:14,991
The problems differ, but the solution is
always more, more state control, for some

823
00:46:14,991 --> 00:46:15,571
odd reason.

824
00:46:15,891 --> 00:46:16,881
for more state control.

825
00:46:16,881 --> 00:46:19,991
And then the people who have the
control, they say, okay, no problem.

826
00:46:19,991 --> 00:46:20,871
We'll take more control.

827
00:46:20,871 --> 00:46:21,851
You want to give me more power?

828
00:46:21,851 --> 00:46:22,271
No problem.

829
00:46:22,281 --> 00:46:22,971
Give me more power.

830
00:46:23,341 --> 00:46:28,241
And then they do some token policies
to keep the people busy, but the

831
00:46:28,261 --> 00:46:29,821
stuff that they really do, we probably

832
00:46:29,821 --> 00:46:30,911
never, you know, figure out.

833
00:46:31,951 --> 00:46:32,791
there's, there's,

834
00:46:33,061 --> 00:46:35,911
here's a point that Jeff
Booth points out often.

835
00:46:36,261 --> 00:46:40,221
That, uh, like regardless of the
protest, even if it's the yellow vests

836
00:46:40,221 --> 00:46:45,771
in France, or, or, you know, just stop
oil, or, no matter what the protest

837
00:46:45,771 --> 00:46:50,271
is, if it's a quote unquote left
wing or right wing protest, uh, the

838
00:46:50,271 --> 00:46:52,691
destruction that follows when people move.

839
00:46:52,851 --> 00:46:57,661
are upset and and there's civil unrest
and they break things is that the the

840
00:46:57,661 --> 00:47:01,761
system that is causing the problem is
is being reinforced because they are

841
00:47:02,091 --> 00:47:06,911
all of these reparations will have to be
paid for by someone and the politicians

842
00:47:06,911 --> 00:47:12,211
aren't gonna they have only one way
to extract money to pay for stuff and

843
00:47:12,211 --> 00:47:16,621
that's to take it from the people either
via inflation or taxes so so it just

844
00:47:16,621 --> 00:47:19,841
reinforces the the problems the problems

845
00:47:19,871 --> 00:47:21,991
that are they they
believe they're fighting

846
00:47:22,551 --> 00:47:23,761
I think, I think Jeff is

847
00:47:23,771 --> 00:47:24,231
brilliant.

848
00:47:24,251 --> 00:47:25,431
I learned a lot from him.

849
00:47:25,511 --> 00:47:29,591
I think that the, and this is interesting
for Bitcoin perspective too, right?

850
00:47:29,591 --> 00:47:30,251
That's what I said.

851
00:47:30,721 --> 00:47:34,261
It's like the more energy you
put into fighting something,

852
00:47:34,941 --> 00:47:36,801
you make it bigger, right?

853
00:47:36,991 --> 00:47:42,231
It's like the idea, the idea of,
um, somebody who is depressed, who

854
00:47:42,231 --> 00:47:46,330
has a problem to go to therapy,
to just talk about this one

855
00:47:46,330 --> 00:47:47,500
problem just makes it bigger.

856
00:47:48,660 --> 00:47:50,890
Um, and this is interesting.

857
00:47:51,430 --> 00:47:56,290
This is why I try to, um, I don't know,
even on a very small scale, when I, like,

858
00:47:56,290 --> 00:48:00,600
I go on Twitter, I don't go on Twitter a
lot anymore because it just triggers me

859
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:05,370
too much, but I go on Twitter and I think,
ah, somebody on the internet is wrong.

860
00:48:05,370 --> 00:48:08,500
I have to, I have to say something and
then I just delete it and I don't never

861
00:48:08,500 --> 00:48:14,170
send it because, because it's, it's, it's,
and, and, and now this is interesting

862
00:48:15,690 --> 00:48:21,345
because the, the, the system, whatever the
system, like, The governments, the bank,

863
00:48:21,905 --> 00:48:23,975
they give Bitcoin a lot of attention.

864
00:48:25,285 --> 00:48:27,985
The ECB hates it so much.

865
00:48:27,985 --> 00:48:29,585
They're screaming at it all the time.

866
00:48:29,585 --> 00:48:32,495
They write stupid articles
with stupid arguments.

867
00:48:32,985 --> 00:48:38,255
You see them foaming at their mouth,
which is absolutely beautiful.

868
00:48:38,535 --> 00:48:42,335
If they didn't see Bitcoin as a
real thing, or even as a threat,

869
00:48:42,535 --> 00:48:43,725
they wouldn't be doing this.

870
00:48:43,995 --> 00:48:47,995
Nobody cares one iota
about what Ethereum does.

871
00:48:48,743 --> 00:48:51,463
No, they're Barbara
Streisand ing the shit out

872
00:48:51,483 --> 00:48:52,083
of Bitcoin.

873
00:48:52,093 --> 00:48:53,313
Like that's what they're doing.

874
00:48:53,788 --> 00:48:54,758
And they cannot stop.

875
00:48:54,998 --> 00:48:55,468
And even

876
00:48:55,468 --> 00:48:59,918
with people who don't, even with
people who don't have any like real

877
00:49:00,718 --> 00:49:06,028
connection to this thing, especially
when the price goes down, you can see

878
00:49:06,028 --> 00:49:11,198
them like we have a famous TV anchor
here in Austria who hates Bitcoin.

879
00:49:11,218 --> 00:49:14,268
I've been arguing with
him about Bitcoin in 2013.

880
00:49:15,133 --> 00:49:19,313
And I remember this because in 2013,
I should not have argued with him.

881
00:49:19,733 --> 00:49:21,563
I should just have bought Bitcoin, right?

882
00:49:21,663 --> 00:49:22,233
But I didn't.

883
00:49:22,703 --> 00:49:23,103
I didn't.

884
00:49:23,363 --> 00:49:26,253
Instead, instead of buying Bitcoin,
I used my time to argue with

885
00:49:26,253 --> 00:49:27,713
him and he still doesn't get it.

886
00:49:27,913 --> 00:49:30,923
And when it goes down, he's
like, Oh, it's going down.

887
00:49:30,923 --> 00:49:31,603
It's dead now.

888
00:49:31,643 --> 00:49:33,903
See, I was right 10 years ago.

889
00:49:34,243 --> 00:49:36,413
Um, and when it goes up,
of course he ignores it.

890
00:49:36,443 --> 00:49:38,523
And then he comes back
out when it goes down.

891
00:49:38,623 --> 00:49:40,793
And, and the ECB is perfect.

892
00:49:40,793 --> 00:49:47,688
I mean, I, I'm trying to meme the, the
idea of the ECB bottom into existence

893
00:49:47,718 --> 00:49:52,348
because their last, um, article, it
was published in English as Bitcoin's

894
00:49:52,668 --> 00:49:55,328
last stand at the end of, um, November.

895
00:49:55,908 --> 00:49:59,288
Um, but it was actually
published in German on the

896
00:49:59,288 --> 00:50:01,518
exact day of the bottom.

897
00:50:02,580 --> 00:50:03,560
that's fantastic.

898
00:50:04,020 --> 00:50:08,980
And Christine Lagarde's famous quote,
uh, if there is an escape hatch, people

899
00:50:08,980 --> 00:50:14,650
will use it or if the, yeah, the best
ad for Bitcoin ever uttered by any

900
00:50:14,660 --> 00:50:15,400
human being.

901
00:50:15,410 --> 00:50:16,210
It's so good.

902
00:50:16,815 --> 00:50:21,065
Imagine, imagine you're
Christine Lagarde's adult son,

903
00:50:22,060 --> 00:50:22,670
Yes.

904
00:50:22,835 --> 00:50:29,085
and she's talking to world media
about you fucking up crypto.

905
00:50:29,730 --> 00:50:30,590
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

906
00:50:32,105 --> 00:50:32,835
It's great.

907
00:50:33,155 --> 00:50:34,955
Uh, no, and, and this is so true.

908
00:50:35,175 --> 00:50:39,275
Like the thing you said about Twitter, I,
I identify with that so much, or I can,

909
00:50:39,285 --> 00:50:44,955
uh, it's not that my pronouns are Twitter,
but, uh, I, I identify, like, I recognize

910
00:50:44,955 --> 00:50:48,795
that so much, and we're, we're even
writing about that in the new book and

911
00:50:48,795 --> 00:50:52,805
everything, how your focus and attention
creates reality to a much larger extent

912
00:50:52,825 --> 00:50:59,130
than you think, and how you just reinforce
stuff by, by, uh, uh, Paying it attention.

913
00:50:59,180 --> 00:51:02,090
So like instead of fighting the
people that are wrong on the

914
00:51:02,090 --> 00:51:05,760
internet Just focus on being right
on the internet and the good things

915
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:06,400
will follow

916
00:51:07,005 --> 00:51:08,645
It's like when you, it's like when you,

917
00:51:09,155 --> 00:51:13,085
I don't know, when you have a pimple on
your face and you think you're ugly now

918
00:51:13,085 --> 00:51:16,165
because there's a pimple on your face
and you think the whole world can only

919
00:51:16,165 --> 00:51:20,275
see the pimple on your face, but then
you figure out that you First of all,

920
00:51:20,285 --> 00:51:22,205
they don't look at you that closely.

921
00:51:22,635 --> 00:51:23,795
And second, even if they do,

922
00:51:23,815 --> 00:51:25,925
they don't even see the pimple, right?

923
00:51:27,150 --> 00:51:29,990
No, and the more you fight the
pimple the bigger it grows.

924
00:51:30,245 --> 00:51:30,735
Exactly.

925
00:51:30,735 --> 00:51:32,345
When you start, you know,
trying to get rid of the

926
00:51:32,345 --> 00:51:33,865
pimple, it just grows and grows.

927
00:51:33,905 --> 00:51:34,195
Right.

928
00:51:34,735 --> 00:51:39,795
Um, and, and, and this is something
that everybody has to learn.

929
00:51:39,795 --> 00:51:43,945
And, and I think Bitcoin
really helps with that.

930
00:51:44,065 --> 00:51:49,965
It's, it's, it's It took me,
like, you asked me an hour ago

931
00:51:50,265 --> 00:51:54,165
about my story, it took me about
seven years to, to get Bitcoin.

932
00:51:54,355 --> 00:51:57,285
I'm not saying I understand it,
I think that that's going to be

933
00:51:57,335 --> 00:52:01,875
a lifelong process, but it took
me seven years to, to get it.

934
00:52:01,875 --> 00:52:05,725
I started in 2013 and
it took me until 2020.

935
00:52:06,270 --> 00:52:07,750
to take it really seriously.

936
00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:11,940
Um, and also because, because,
you know, life gets in the way.

937
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:16,250
It's not like we have time to, to
now we do now that we decided that

938
00:52:16,250 --> 00:52:21,640
this is important after I, after
my, my, my, my hardcore Bitcoin

939
00:52:21,980 --> 00:52:26,170
phase in 2020, I knew very, very
quickly that I need to change jobs.

940
00:52:26,170 --> 00:52:30,920
I need to change my whole career because I
need time to talk to people about Bitcoin.

941
00:52:32,910 --> 00:52:37,470
And, and since I've done that, I'm, I'm
a lot, um, easier to deal with because

942
00:52:37,470 --> 00:52:41,570
when I come home, uh, I don't have to
talk about Bitcoin with my wife anymore.

943
00:52:41,570 --> 00:52:43,140
And she's very glad about that.

944
00:52:43,140 --> 00:52:43,590
She just,

945
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:45,630
she doesn't want to hear about it.

946
00:52:46,636 --> 00:52:52,196
Oh, that reminds me of an, uh, when
My wife first met Joni Appelberg,

947
00:52:52,216 --> 00:52:57,131
you know, the animator that I
sometimes collaborate with Yeah, yeah.

948
00:52:57,131 --> 00:53:00,531
Hey, Joni, if you're watching and,
uh, we were sitting in Riga having

949
00:53:00,531 --> 00:53:05,231
dinner together and he starts talking
about longevity and microcellular

950
00:53:05,871 --> 00:53:10,631
biology and stuff, passionate about
the subject and she's sitting there,

951
00:53:10,651 --> 00:53:13,051
Curtis, and just, okay, thank you.

952
00:53:13,151 --> 00:53:14,031
Very interesting.

953
00:53:14,441 --> 00:53:18,186
And I just look at her and I'm
like, Isn't this wonderful, darling?

954
00:53:18,196 --> 00:53:22,596
Like, you're, you're, you're
in a situation now where every,

955
00:53:22,626 --> 00:53:26,166
there's a, there's 2000 people
here and they're all like me.

956
00:53:28,186 --> 00:53:29,136
Isn't it wonderful?

957
00:53:29,136 --> 00:53:30,496
That's just, yeah.

958
00:53:31,026 --> 00:53:37,191
Uh, anyway, I had two questions on my
mind and now 10 questions later, I'm going

959
00:53:37,191 --> 00:53:43,041
to get to the second question because I
think this, uh, ties back to, you know,

960
00:53:43,151 --> 00:53:45,021
uh, talking about the state of Bitcoin.

961
00:53:45,031 --> 00:53:47,421
Luke's question about the
state of Bitcoin right now.

962
00:53:47,881 --> 00:53:51,451
So, What's the state of the EU right now?

963
00:53:51,471 --> 00:53:58,131
Like, um, uh, how bad is it and how close
to the Soviet Union are we in terms of,

964
00:53:58,161 --> 00:54:03,691
should the EU flag really have a red
background color instead of a blue one?

965
00:54:04,401 --> 00:54:06,141
Where are we and why?

966
00:54:06,861 --> 00:54:08,391
It is absolutely

967
00:54:08,541 --> 00:54:15,201
like, I always like get a, when, when
there's a China EU summit and you have

968
00:54:15,871 --> 00:54:19,431
the red flag with a couple of stars
on one side and the blue flag with

969
00:54:19,431 --> 00:54:23,171
a couple of stars on the other side,
it's really, really horrid to see that.

970
00:54:23,441 --> 00:54:23,741
Right.

971
00:54:24,581 --> 00:54:27,581
Um, it's like, don't people see it?

972
00:54:27,581 --> 00:54:28,451
I don't understand.

973
00:54:28,451 --> 00:54:30,701
It's, it's, it's very hard for me,

974
00:54:31,221 --> 00:54:31,611
what I,

975
00:54:31,711 --> 00:54:35,941
what it's really, what, like what,
what the EU is really lacking is

976
00:54:35,981 --> 00:54:37,971
any sort of positive coherence.

977
00:54:38,676 --> 00:54:43,323
Um, promise, basically, there's
many things going wrong.

978
00:54:44,023 --> 00:54:50,283
I see the end result of
inflation everywhere.

979
00:54:51,313 --> 00:54:57,603
Um, and that, by that, I mean, um,
basically the only way to, to fight the

980
00:54:57,613 --> 00:55:01,908
negative consequences of inflation is,
A, more inflation and B, more control.

981
00:55:01,908 --> 00:55:03,998
That's what Christine
Lagarde talked about, right?

982
00:55:04,288 --> 00:55:07,448
First of all, we're going to, we're
going to inflate your money, but

983
00:55:07,508 --> 00:55:11,178
second, we're also going to do financial
repression and that goes hand in hand

984
00:55:11,178 --> 00:55:16,208
with building up a surveillance state
and we control what you can say, um,

985
00:55:16,248 --> 00:55:17,898
and, and all that kind of stuff, right?

986
00:55:18,018 --> 00:55:20,448
Um, they, they look at China.

987
00:55:21,213 --> 00:55:26,923
With the red flag, they look at their
form of, uh, uh, of surveillance, of

988
00:55:26,923 --> 00:55:31,133
a surveillance state as, as a positive
example, not as a negative, uh, thing.

989
00:55:31,143 --> 00:55:35,869
They talk about freedom, but I don't
really see why they would, you know,

990
00:55:36,223 --> 00:55:37,843
have any right to talk about freedom.

991
00:55:39,203 --> 00:55:40,003
then there is

992
00:55:40,707 --> 00:55:44,647
the real and obvious
problem that the people

993
00:55:44,647 --> 00:55:49,907
in power, and this is true for most
countries probably, but especially

994
00:55:49,907 --> 00:55:52,587
for the EU, they're idiots.

995
00:55:54,632 --> 00:55:56,592
And it took me a very long time.

996
00:55:58,292 --> 00:56:01,862
It took me a very long time to be,
to like have the, the self confidence

997
00:56:01,892 --> 00:56:06,722
to say this, but the older you grow,
the older you get, and the more

998
00:56:06,722 --> 00:56:08,412
you learn about people in life.

999
00:56:09,122 --> 00:56:14,402
And then you, you know, combine the idea
of, of where do we stand with the EU?

1000
00:56:14,412 --> 00:56:16,582
Where do we stand with
Fiat, the Fiat system?

1001
00:56:16,582 --> 00:56:20,342
And then if you look at what,
what, what every country is doing,

1002
00:56:20,352 --> 00:56:22,862
they, they send everybody they
want to get rid of to Brussels.

1003
00:56:23,892 --> 00:56:24,222
Right.

1004
00:56:25,192 --> 00:56:32,392
So, so you really have a toxic
combination of incentives and stupidity.

1005
00:56:33,272 --> 00:56:37,662
That's very, very scary because
that's also something you asked

1006
00:56:37,662 --> 00:56:39,172
me about the Soviet Union.

1007
00:56:39,172 --> 00:56:40,602
I don't know about the Soviet Union.

1008
00:56:40,622 --> 00:56:42,952
Like, I don't know how close we are.

1009
00:56:43,002 --> 00:56:46,552
There is many things that
we still have many freedoms.

1010
00:56:46,552 --> 00:56:48,292
We still have that the Soviets never had.

1011
00:56:48,292 --> 00:56:48,572
Right.

1012
00:56:48,612 --> 00:56:50,812
And the people living in
the Soviet Union never had.

1013
00:56:50,812 --> 00:56:50,832
Right.

1014
00:56:51,732 --> 00:56:55,872
But one thing you really had in the
Soviet Union is that after a while

1015
00:56:56,312 --> 00:57:02,432
and about 600 different purges by
Stalin and his friends, only the

1016
00:57:02,432 --> 00:57:04,872
really shifty idiots survived, right?

1017
00:57:05,962 --> 00:57:11,752
And that is scary because I don't,
like, I don't see, when I look at the

1018
00:57:11,752 --> 00:57:16,742
people doing regulations in Brussels,
I don't see any real competence.

1019
00:57:17,567 --> 00:57:18,817
And this is, that's scary.

1020
00:57:18,887 --> 00:57:24,617
Maybe that's probably true in the US
as well, but the US has more stable

1021
00:57:24,617 --> 00:57:25,387
institutions.

1022
00:57:26,831 --> 00:57:27,311
Yeah, do you think

1023
00:57:27,621 --> 00:57:32,681
that's connected to the, uh, uh, to
academia and the school system and

1024
00:57:32,681 --> 00:57:37,401
the erosion of that, uh, throughout
the years through socialists, utopian

1025
00:57:37,401 --> 00:57:42,525
thoughts of everyone being equal,
like ruining the meritocracy of that.

1026
00:57:42,555 --> 00:57:47,415
So, so that obedience gets you the
high grades rather than actually being

1027
00:57:47,925 --> 00:57:48,865
good at stuff.

1028
00:57:50,143 --> 00:57:50,373
let's

1029
00:57:50,373 --> 00:57:51,863
just say, let's, let's put it this way.

1030
00:57:51,963 --> 00:57:57,463
The, the idea of an American entrepreneur,
um, you know, if you finish, you finished

1031
00:57:57,483 --> 00:58:00,143
college, it's a bad thing, right?

1032
00:58:00,143 --> 00:58:01,933
In the US.

1033
00:58:02,883 --> 00:58:06,733
As an entrepreneur in Europe,
we wouldn't see that, right?

1034
00:58:07,933 --> 00:58:11,223
I'm a college dropout that,
you know, a university dropout

1035
00:58:11,223 --> 00:58:12,143
that doesn't really work.

1036
00:58:12,243 --> 00:58:15,393
Um, you see, the problem is this.

1037
00:58:15,893 --> 00:58:19,653
I don't, I don't, I try
to not think in absolutes.

1038
00:58:20,493 --> 00:58:22,203
Um, what do I mean by that?

1039
00:58:23,273 --> 00:58:26,713
There are things in Europe that
are a lot better than in the U.

1040
00:58:26,713 --> 00:58:26,883
S.

1041
00:58:27,821 --> 00:58:32,591
there are, first of all, even within
the fiat system, because the U.

1042
00:58:32,591 --> 00:58:32,781
S.

1043
00:58:32,781 --> 00:58:37,201
has the exorbitant privilege of
printing the dollar, um, we do

1044
00:58:37,201 --> 00:58:42,015
have some sort of, um, game theory
and some sort of, reference.

1045
00:58:42,435 --> 00:58:46,145
What I mean by that is there's
a reason that my old, um, diesel

1046
00:58:46,155 --> 00:58:49,795
Golf that's standing outside like
a small Volkswagen is going a

1047
00:58:49,795 --> 00:58:51,735
thousand kilometers on one tank.

1048
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:56,670
And the American truck is going a
thousand meters on the same tank.

1049
00:58:56,970 --> 00:58:57,990
There's a reason, right?

1050
00:58:57,990 --> 00:59:01,740
The reason is that, that, that there,
that we still have to pay for stuff.

1051
00:59:01,770 --> 00:59:02,660
The Americans don't.

1052
00:59:03,530 --> 00:59:04,550
They just print the money.

1053
00:59:05,669 --> 00:59:09,339
is a, there is something to be said
about social security systems and,

1054
00:59:09,399 --> 00:59:15,279
and even like, um, the idea of, uh,
uh, a social market economy like

1055
00:59:15,309 --> 00:59:17,119
we had in Germany and in Austria.

1056
00:59:17,659 --> 00:59:21,179
Um, the problem is that you forget that
at some point you forget that the market

1057
00:59:21,239 --> 00:59:25,089
economy has to, you know, make the
money first before you distributed it.

1058
00:59:25,239 --> 00:59:25,689
Right.

1059
00:59:26,169 --> 00:59:28,949
Um, and then you go down
the road to socialism.

1060
00:59:29,719 --> 00:59:33,559
Um, there is something to be said about
all these things, especially like one

1061
00:59:33,559 --> 00:59:35,369
of my pet peeps would be food, right?

1062
00:59:35,469 --> 00:59:40,379
Food that I get here in, in, in
Austria, um, and in Italy and in

1063
00:59:40,379 --> 00:59:45,219
Europe generally is so far superior
to the U S that I do, I wouldn't even

1064
00:59:45,229 --> 00:59:46,709
know how to live there, honestly.

1065
00:59:46,904 --> 00:59:51,014
Like Americans watching this, they're
like, Oh, my beef is grass fed, right?

1066
00:59:51,054 --> 00:59:53,954
And we don't even, I don't even
know what, what else there is.

1067
00:59:54,744 --> 00:59:55,024
Right.

1068
00:59:55,134 --> 00:59:56,684
no, that's what cows eat.

1069
00:59:56,684 --> 00:59:56,874
Yeah.

1070
00:59:56,874 --> 00:59:56,884
Yeah.

1071
00:59:56,884 --> 00:59:56,894
Yeah.

1072
00:59:57,004 --> 00:59:57,974
that's what cows eat.

1073
00:59:58,044 --> 00:59:58,474
Yes.

1074
00:59:59,174 --> 01:00:03,454
So, so, so there are like
advantages and I don't know.

1075
01:00:03,584 --> 01:00:05,624
Like it's, it's, it's.

1076
01:00:06,469 --> 01:00:11,589
I'm sure that it's a mistake to, to
attribute all the negatives in Europe

1077
01:00:11,589 --> 01:00:15,409
to the EU and all the positives to
what's happening in the nation states.

1078
01:00:15,409 --> 01:00:16,569
That's definitely bad.

1079
01:00:16,919 --> 01:00:22,799
Um, the, the, the basic idea of
the EU of having France and Germany

1080
01:00:22,799 --> 01:00:26,369
in one entity, not fighting each
other is, is still important.

1081
01:00:26,379 --> 01:00:32,744
I mean, we're going into a phase with more
nationalism, more, more, uh, potential

1082
01:00:32,834 --> 01:00:39,974
conflict and really don't want, uh, uh, a
repeat of world war one or two in Europe.

1083
01:00:40,004 --> 01:00:41,894
I think that that's something
we should all agree on.

1084
01:00:42,578 --> 01:00:49,028
but the combination of socialist
tendencies in the nation states and on

1085
01:00:49,028 --> 01:00:50,928
the EU level is really, really toxic.

1086
01:00:51,348 --> 01:00:53,868
And I don't know how we're
going to get out of this.

1087
01:00:54,098 --> 01:00:58,288
I really don't, I have
no, like, I have no idea.

1088
01:00:58,298 --> 01:00:58,678
I

1089
01:00:58,708 --> 01:00:59,448
Yeah, you do.

1090
01:01:00,028 --> 01:01:01,158
Yes, you do.

1091
01:01:01,248 --> 01:01:01,588
mean Bitcoin?

1092
01:01:01,918 --> 01:01:02,498
Yes.

1093
01:01:03,113 --> 01:01:07,323
Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, if you have,
if you have, if you have some sort of,

1094
01:01:07,353 --> 01:01:10,495
um, of a true cost of stuff, right.

1095
01:01:10,675 --> 01:01:13,085
Um, if you, yeah, then that would help.

1096
01:01:13,085 --> 01:01:17,555
I mean, if you look at what's happening
in, in, in, um, uh, just right today that,

1097
01:01:17,645 --> 01:01:24,055
uh, Turkey has now finally figured out
that they cannot, that MMT is not working.

1098
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,740
And, and they cannot just print
the money and they just decided to

1099
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:32,460
basically, uh, cut the state in half.

1100
01:01:33,110 --> 01:01:37,160
Uh, they're not gonna, you know, have new,
new, new employees in the state business.

1101
01:01:37,180 --> 01:01:38,770
They're not even gonna buy new cars.

1102
01:01:39,210 --> 01:01:41,720
If it's not an ambulance, it's not
going to get a bought, they're not

1103
01:01:41,750 --> 01:01:43,040
going to build any new buildings.

1104
01:01:43,110 --> 01:01:44,430
They don't have the money anymore.

1105
01:01:44,460 --> 01:01:45,030
They're fucked.

1106
01:01:45,745 --> 01:01:49,875
Um, so this is something that, that
at some point, if there is, if, if

1107
01:01:50,285 --> 01:01:55,015
reality clashes with, with, with, um,
the costs, with the costs get too high,

1108
01:01:55,295 --> 01:02:00,695
then maybe we can get back to some sort
of, of, but like I said, I, I honestly

1109
01:02:00,695 --> 01:02:06,225
think that Uh, we need some sort of big
crisis and then we'll see what a, what

1110
01:02:06,225 --> 01:02:09,535
a, what a European, where the EU is
standing, if it's still there or not.

1111
01:02:10,115 --> 01:02:11,785
Um, it's very hard to say,

1112
01:02:11,785 --> 01:02:12,075
I

1113
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:12,520
Yeah.

1114
01:02:12,530 --> 01:02:13,430
Let's just all,

1115
01:02:13,750 --> 01:02:17,040
we can all just hope that
hyperbitcoinization precedes

1116
01:02:17,050 --> 01:02:21,260
hyperinflation because that's,
that's the hopeful part, right?

1117
01:02:21,810 --> 01:02:22,330
Otherwise

1118
01:02:22,340 --> 01:02:23,220
it's going to be tough.

1119
01:02:23,555 --> 01:02:25,305
mean, I mean, I, I, I, I'm

1120
01:02:25,305 --> 01:02:29,015
going to say this we talked
about, like I'm talking about,

1121
01:02:29,105 --> 01:02:34,355
uh, escapes, it's, it's, it's very
much part of the same coin, right?

1122
01:02:34,355 --> 01:02:39,225
Because, because hyperinflation is,
is a collapse in the, in the trust,

1123
01:02:39,225 --> 01:02:42,380
trust, trust, trust It's like a
collapse in the demand for money, or

1124
01:02:42,420 --> 01:02:44,060
a collapse in the demand for currency.

1125
01:02:44,870 --> 01:02:48,470
So if people demand Only
Bitcoin and don't demand a euro

1126
01:02:48,470 --> 01:02:48,750
anymore.

1127
01:02:48,750 --> 01:02:50,080
That would lead to hyperinflation,

1128
01:02:50,711 --> 01:02:55,011
but, uh, but the flip side also, it
would also lead to hyperbitcoinization.

1129
01:02:55,916 --> 01:02:56,696
yeah, it would.

1130
01:02:56,756 --> 01:02:59,046
Um, but, but I don't think
that we are there yet.

1131
01:02:59,086 --> 01:03:02,986
I think that, that one of the
reasons why, why, uh, the Europeans

1132
01:03:03,856 --> 01:03:07,896
desperately want the stupid digital
euro is because they're, they're

1133
01:03:07,896 --> 01:03:08,926
not actually scared of Bitcoin.

1134
01:03:09,146 --> 01:03:10,186
They're scared of the dollar.

1135
01:03:10,711 --> 01:03:11,461
And they should be.

1136
01:03:11,971 --> 01:03:12,321
Yeah,

1137
01:03:12,331 --> 01:03:12,831
should be.

1138
01:03:12,941 --> 01:03:14,251
They should be very scared.

1139
01:03:15,461 --> 01:03:16,781
yeah, absolutely.

1140
01:03:16,981 --> 01:03:22,621
I mean, that's, this reminds me, your,
your, um, um, description of social

1141
01:03:22,621 --> 01:03:27,101
democracy, let's say, there, uh,
reminds me of another quote from two

1142
01:03:27,101 --> 01:03:29,961
people we mentioned in the beginning
of the show, Ronald Reagan and Margaret

1143
01:03:29,961 --> 01:03:34,571
Thatcher, and one of my favorite
Thatcher quotes is, uh, The problem

1144
01:03:34,571 --> 01:03:38,231
with socialism is that sooner or later
you run out of other people's money.

1145
01:03:39,331 --> 01:03:39,711
Yes.

1146
01:03:39,781 --> 01:03:40,201
And, and,

1147
01:03:40,201 --> 01:03:41,751
and yeah, and we

1148
01:03:41,771 --> 01:03:42,481
haven't yet.

1149
01:03:42,561 --> 01:03:43,191
We haven't yet.

1150
01:03:43,291 --> 01:03:44,331
That's, that's my point.

1151
01:03:44,511 --> 01:03:47,591
We haven't like Western Europe hasn't
run out of other people's money yet.

1152
01:03:47,631 --> 01:03:48,621
We are not even close.

1153
01:03:48,731 --> 01:03:51,761
So, so I see, I see,

1154
01:03:52,841 --> 01:03:54,291
I, this could take 20 more years,

1155
01:03:54,961 --> 01:03:55,291
yeah.

1156
01:03:55,781 --> 01:03:56,771
And it's also why,

1157
01:03:56,811 --> 01:04:03,031
why, uh, people like the Scandinavian
model gets credited, uh, by American

1158
01:04:03,031 --> 01:04:09,246
leftists a lot because like, uh,
when, when Americans want an example

1159
01:04:09,246 --> 01:04:11,506
of well functioning socialist states.

1160
01:04:11,506 --> 01:04:13,186
They point at Scandinavia.

1161
01:04:13,706 --> 01:04:17,306
And what they don't realize is that
the Scandinavian countries have had

1162
01:04:17,566 --> 01:04:22,286
stock markets for far, far longer than
most other countries in the world.

1163
01:04:22,856 --> 01:04:27,566
And also that the biggest companies in
Sweden were all started before 1950.

1164
01:04:29,116 --> 01:04:33,676
So, so What has happened since
is basically just the running

1165
01:04:33,676 --> 01:04:35,266
out of other people's money part.

1166
01:04:35,881 --> 01:04:39,371
uh, but it gets wrongly
credited for everything good,

1167
01:04:39,921 --> 01:04:41,181
uh, in those countries.

1168
01:04:41,916 --> 01:04:44,056
One thing, one thing we're absolutely

1169
01:04:44,056 --> 01:04:44,936
missing in Europe.

1170
01:04:44,986 --> 01:04:50,896
And one thing that the Americans
still have or two things is a

1171
01:04:51,006 --> 01:04:53,326
respect for personal liberties.

1172
01:04:54,291 --> 01:05:00,371
And the belief in capitalism,
basically, like the market economy,

1173
01:05:00,371 --> 01:05:02,931
the belief that somebody can build
up something from nothing and

1174
01:05:02,931 --> 01:05:04,631
that that's a good thing, right?

1175
01:05:05,061 --> 01:05:09,928
We live in a world where, um, you
know, there is this discussion,

1176
01:05:10,038 --> 01:05:13,558
what has been, you know, what came
first, the chicken or the egg?

1177
01:05:15,048 --> 01:05:21,858
When it comes to companies or employees,
I don't think we can discuss this, right?

1178
01:05:21,898 --> 01:05:23,508
The companies came first.

1179
01:05:23,538 --> 01:05:24,638
They needed the employees.

1180
01:05:25,298 --> 01:05:29,768
And of course, I respect anybody
who says we are, even you can

1181
01:05:29,768 --> 01:05:31,158
do a union, whatever, you know.

1182
01:05:31,278 --> 01:05:31,628
Um.

1183
01:05:32,528 --> 01:05:37,358
Do whatever, but you have to respect
the business people and when you

1184
01:05:37,358 --> 01:05:40,168
look at the history, what you said
about Sweden is very interesting.

1185
01:05:40,178 --> 01:05:44,348
When you look at the history of Western
Europe and the companies that have been

1186
01:05:44,368 --> 01:05:48,398
built in Western Europe, the giants of
industry, when you look at the German

1187
01:05:48,398 --> 01:05:54,188
car industry, when you look at German,
whatever industry, it has been a story

1188
01:05:54,268 --> 01:05:59,598
out of the ashes of World War II in
a world where they were so destroyed.

1189
01:06:00,253 --> 01:06:06,603
That, that there wasn't any money
there for some sort of thick social,

1190
01:06:06,723 --> 01:06:07,623
socialist layer.

1191
01:06:08,003 --> 01:06:09,373
You just had to get to work.

1192
01:06:10,438 --> 01:06:11,948
And you had Ludwig Erhardt.

1193
01:06:12,948 --> 01:06:16,878
Uh, which is an unsung hero
of, uh, German, uh, economics.

1194
01:06:17,283 --> 01:06:18,413
It's today.

1195
01:06:18,423 --> 01:06:18,633
Yeah.

1196
01:06:18,633 --> 01:06:18,733
I

1197
01:06:18,733 --> 01:06:19,823
mean, yeah, exactly.

1198
01:06:19,853 --> 01:06:21,453
It's, it's, it has been forgotten.

1199
01:06:22,253 --> 01:06:22,293
Yeah.

1200
01:06:22,933 --> 01:06:28,523
Um, that's the idea that you have
a, uh, uh, social, what we call

1201
01:06:28,533 --> 01:06:33,443
it, sociale marktwirtschaft, social
market economics, but it only works

1202
01:06:33,443 --> 01:06:35,693
if the market part is bigger than 50%.

1203
01:06:35,694 --> 01:06:36,348
Right.

1204
01:06:36,938 --> 01:06:39,868
If the social part gets bigger,
it starts eating the market part.

1205
01:06:39,868 --> 01:06:43,418
And then you just, you have to pile on
debt on debt, and that leads to inflation.

1206
01:06:43,688 --> 01:06:43,858
And

1207
01:06:43,858 --> 01:06:45,088
now we are in this situation.

1208
01:06:45,688 --> 01:06:47,728
Yeah, and now we're in clown world

1209
01:06:47,728 --> 01:06:53,808
instead, which is what ensues, and,
uh, I mean, the, uh, the problem, as

1210
01:06:53,808 --> 01:06:59,478
I see it, is that I, I don't think
democracies are inherently stable.

1211
01:06:59,853 --> 01:07:04,713
I think rather the opposite,
unfortunately, that they, over time, tend

1212
01:07:04,713 --> 01:07:10,853
to, all these institutions, as soon as
they're erected, they grow like cancers,

1213
01:07:10,933 --> 01:07:12,513
especially if you have a central bank.

1214
01:07:12,513 --> 01:07:16,153
Not, not entirely sure if you don't
have the central bank, but if you do,

1215
01:07:16,423 --> 01:07:22,433
I think, uh, Inevitably, you will get
above the threshold of 50 percent and

1216
01:07:22,443 --> 01:07:28,303
after that, uh, you're basically on
a, on a downward slope and the, the,

1217
01:07:28,313 --> 01:07:30,193
the, the, there's only revolutionary

1218
01:07:30,193 --> 01:07:31,063
ways out of it.

1219
01:07:31,998 --> 01:07:33,758
I mean, I don't know if there is any

1220
01:07:33,758 --> 01:07:41,668
form of, I mean, we've never had a
system where the money just is so hard.

1221
01:07:42,368 --> 01:07:43,478
As Bitcoin is, right?

1222
01:07:43,668 --> 01:07:49,568
So I mean, when you really want to go on
that level, maybe Bitcoin is the first, is

1223
01:07:49,568 --> 01:07:52,638
our first chance for long term stability.

1224
01:07:52,998 --> 01:07:56,538
Because the interesting thing is that,
that without a central bank, without

1225
01:07:56,538 --> 01:08:00,852
inflation, without money printing,
you can, you can try stupid stuff, but

1226
01:08:00,902 --> 01:08:03,212
only for a very short amount of time.

1227
01:08:04,077 --> 01:08:07,657
While, um, with political money,
and this is exactly what, like,

1228
01:08:07,687 --> 01:08:09,127
when you look at MMT, right?

1229
01:08:09,247 --> 01:08:12,027
Uh, modern monetary theory, they,
they have their fans everywhere.

1230
01:08:12,027 --> 01:08:13,217
They have the fans in Germany.

1231
01:08:13,397 --> 01:08:13,767
Why?

1232
01:08:13,767 --> 01:08:18,417
Because the idea of having a 100 percent
political money, uh, that they can print

1233
01:08:18,417 --> 01:08:22,337
for whatever they want is for, for many
people is very, um, appealing, right?

1234
01:08:22,407 --> 01:08:26,513
If you don't, I mean, and this is
literally, it's literally uh, the line

1235
01:08:26,523 --> 01:08:29,283
between those who want to be productive.

1236
01:08:29,963 --> 01:08:34,073
And those who don't want to be productive,
those who want to be productive,

1237
01:08:34,083 --> 01:08:35,523
want a money that they can trust.

1238
01:08:35,793 --> 01:08:40,173
And those, uh, and the only money you can
trust is the money that nobody controls.

1239
01:08:40,233 --> 01:08:42,833
And those don't want to be
productive, want to control the money.

1240
01:08:44,013 --> 01:08:47,493
And this has been, I think, I
don't know if it's about democracy.

1241
01:08:47,493 --> 01:08:50,783
I don't even know if stability
is something that's very, very

1242
01:08:50,793 --> 01:08:54,967
like, it's like the discussion
about the volatility in Bitcoin.

1243
01:08:54,967 --> 01:08:56,667
I don't know if volatility is bad.

1244
01:08:57,697 --> 01:08:59,187
Volatility can also be a sign of life.

1245
01:08:59,237 --> 01:09:00,447
Stability is, I

1246
01:09:00,447 --> 01:09:02,537
chaos is a ladder sort of thing.

1247
01:09:03,127 --> 01:09:09,237
mean, if, if, if there is this, it's,
it's, it's an article I've read in a

1248
01:09:09,237 --> 01:09:13,527
newspaper maybe 15 years ago, but it
has stuck with me ever since it did.

1249
01:09:13,567 --> 01:09:19,147
It was a study or some sort of scientific,
uh, theory that, that basically a society

1250
01:09:19,147 --> 01:09:22,877
where that's totally stable, where
everybody knows everything and they know,

1251
01:09:22,937 --> 01:09:26,697
you know, what the future will bring,
whatever is, is, is, it's, it's, that's a

1252
01:09:26,817 --> 01:09:28,397
society that's going to collapse tomorrow.

1253
01:09:29,807 --> 01:09:33,777
And, and, and especially when you look
at the, at the history of Austria,

1254
01:09:33,777 --> 01:09:38,177
you look at our, at our history, our
empire, there was a society like that

1255
01:09:38,217 --> 01:09:42,267
after 200, 400 years, it was so old.

1256
01:09:42,307 --> 01:09:42,997
It's so.

1257
01:09:44,227 --> 01:09:45,247
set in its ways.

1258
01:09:45,757 --> 01:09:49,357
Everybody knew everything about their
life from the moment they were born,

1259
01:09:49,827 --> 01:09:51,557
and it just collapsed completely.

1260
01:09:51,847 --> 01:09:53,707
Never to be, to be seen again.

1261
01:09:54,167 --> 01:10:00,337
Um, so yeah, I mean, from a market
perspective, these things that

1262
01:10:00,337 --> 01:10:01,507
don't work need to collapse.

1263
01:10:02,277 --> 01:10:04,897
If we don't want, we don't want
them to go on if they don't work.

1264
01:10:05,257 --> 01:10:07,707
Um, and they're not going
to correct themselves.

1265
01:10:07,707 --> 01:10:09,857
I don't think that that's,
you know, Really in the

1266
01:10:09,857 --> 01:10:12,187
cards, especially not, like
you said, with fiat money.

1267
01:10:12,787 --> 01:10:14,207
So the metaphor

1268
01:10:14,267 --> 01:10:19,097
here is, uh, planes are not going to
stop dropping out to the sky until

1269
01:10:19,107 --> 01:10:20,847
Boeing runs out of business, right?

1270
01:10:21,580 --> 01:10:22,060
I don't know.

1271
01:10:22,060 --> 01:10:22,430
I don't know.

1272
01:10:22,430 --> 01:10:23,280
I don't want to talk, say

1273
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:24,320
anything about Boeing.

1274
01:10:24,820 --> 01:10:26,090
That's that they have lawyers.

1275
01:10:26,930 --> 01:10:28,670
I, I, and I don't, I don't know anything.

1276
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:30,220
disclaimer, that was a joke.

1277
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:30,610
Yeah,

1278
01:10:31,553 --> 01:10:32,103
satire.

1279
01:10:32,103 --> 01:10:33,303
No, I don't, I don't know anything.

1280
01:10:33,303 --> 01:10:35,143
I, I, uh, I,

1281
01:10:36,287 --> 01:10:37,797
Well, I think the funny

1282
01:10:37,797 --> 01:10:41,787
thing about the whole situation in
the EU and sort of coming from an

1283
01:10:41,797 --> 01:10:45,307
outsider's perspective a little bit
is that, I mean, the original promise

1284
01:10:45,307 --> 01:10:51,167
of the EU, right, which, which, as you
said, was to, to encourage relations

1285
01:10:51,277 --> 01:10:56,097
to avoid war, all this stuff, I
mean, it's, it's, it's noble goals.

1286
01:10:56,097 --> 01:10:59,167
And, and even to a certain extent,
at least the appearances that it was

1287
01:10:59,167 --> 01:11:03,067
supposed to make everything easier,
uh, freedom of people to move around

1288
01:11:03,067 --> 01:11:05,137
people for, for freedom to, to trade.

1289
01:11:05,137 --> 01:11:05,417
Right.

1290
01:11:05,417 --> 01:11:10,787
And, and, uh, there's nothing wrong
inherently with that goal, but then

1291
01:11:10,787 --> 01:11:12,987
it's, it's all the over regulation of it.

1292
01:11:12,997 --> 01:11:16,517
And, uh, uh, yeah, I mean,
pros and pros and cons.

1293
01:11:17,247 --> 01:11:18,517
Uh, I love living here, but,

1294
01:11:18,827 --> 01:11:19,867
I mean, to be fair,

1295
01:11:19,977 --> 01:11:25,827
to be fair, when we talk about socialist
policies, um, like the welfare state.

1296
01:11:27,472 --> 01:11:28,552
That's not an EU thing.

1297
01:11:29,722 --> 01:11:33,592
The EU does this on a, on a European level
where the rich countries have to pay for

1298
01:11:33,602 --> 01:11:36,862
the poor countries, which is something
we can talk about, but it's probably

1299
01:11:36,862 --> 01:11:41,012
something that's not a stupid idea if you
want to have a level playing field, right?

1300
01:11:41,012 --> 01:11:44,392
If you want to, if you, if you want
as Germany, if you want for your

1301
01:11:44,392 --> 01:11:48,872
goods to be To be bought by a market,

1302
01:11:48,892 --> 01:11:50,822
you have to build up that market.

1303
01:11:51,292 --> 01:11:53,037
but, but wait a minute, wait a minute.

1304
01:11:53,157 --> 01:11:53,457
Is

1305
01:11:54,177 --> 01:11:58,497
so, there's another way of looking at
that, and that is that the, uh, okay.

1306
01:11:58,502 --> 01:12:03,167
So Germany is making a lot of money
selling cars to Southern Europe, but in

1307
01:12:03,167 --> 01:12:08,687
order to afford the cars from Germany
germ, uh, the, the Southern European

1308
01:12:08,687 --> 01:12:14,507
countries have to receive a lot of EU
tax money from Germany to buy the cars.

1309
01:12:15,142 --> 01:12:20,962
So it's, it's, it's sort of a, it's
sort of all, all a char charade.

1310
01:12:21,262 --> 01:12:23,122
It's, it's, it's circling.

1311
01:12:23,762 --> 01:12:27,822
Stuff, and, and, there's no
clear market signal, it's, it's

1312
01:12:27,822 --> 01:12:30,672
basically the, uh, state state

1313
01:12:30,692 --> 01:12:32,252
controlled production of cars.

1314
01:12:32,612 --> 01:12:35,702
the real, the real problem
is that the cars are getting

1315
01:12:35,702 --> 01:12:36,122
shitty.

1316
01:12:36,858 --> 01:12:37,408
Of course.

1317
01:12:37,578 --> 01:12:41,508
and then, and then you pay money
to Southern Europe and they

1318
01:12:41,508 --> 01:12:45,098
turn around and buy cars from,
from, from the U S or China.

1319
01:12:45,818 --> 01:12:46,278
Yeah.

1320
01:12:46,733 --> 01:12:48,163
That's the real problem from the German

1321
01:12:48,478 --> 01:12:50,178
Because they don't want the Trabant.

1322
01:12:50,288 --> 01:12:50,778
Commie

1323
01:12:50,953 --> 01:12:53,743
They don't want the modern
version of the Trabant, they

1324
01:12:53,743 --> 01:12:54,753
don't want to get ripped off.

1325
01:12:55,233 --> 01:13:00,497
Um, but, I mean, what I mean
is like the idea, it's funny.

1326
01:13:00,597 --> 01:13:05,127
One of the reasons why the EU, why
the ECB might hate Bitcoin so much.

1327
01:13:05,842 --> 01:13:09,852
is that the idea of Bitcoin is
something that at some point was

1328
01:13:09,852 --> 01:13:11,912
actually the idea behind the euro.

1329
01:13:12,792 --> 01:13:17,802
So the, the first idea, like the
old idea of the euro was to have

1330
01:13:18,182 --> 01:13:21,162
a hard money for all of Europe.

1331
01:13:22,412 --> 01:13:29,807
And if you, if you overspend, You
have to cut down on overspending.

1332
01:13:29,817 --> 01:13:33,247
You have to, um, cut down on
the, on the welfare state, on

1333
01:13:33,247 --> 01:13:34,417
the, on the size of the state.

1334
01:13:34,417 --> 01:13:42,137
So the idea was to basically turn all of
Europe into a hard money Deutschmark zone.

1335
01:13:43,097 --> 01:13:45,527
That was the, at least that's
what they, what, what the

1336
01:13:45,597 --> 01:13:46,917
architects of the Euro were doing.

1337
01:13:48,427 --> 01:13:48,977
started out

1338
01:13:48,977 --> 01:13:49,317
doing.

1339
01:13:50,547 --> 01:13:53,507
And then of course that failed,

1340
01:13:55,437 --> 01:13:56,027
that failed.

1341
01:13:56,197 --> 01:13:58,667
Um, and now it's, it's the opposite.

1342
01:13:58,857 --> 01:14:03,057
Now it's the, it's, it's
the, the, the European lira.

1343
01:14:03,547 --> 01:14:05,227
You just, you just print money, whatever.

1344
01:14:06,317 --> 01:14:10,617
Um, and, and this is not
gonna go, not gonna work.

1345
01:14:10,697 --> 01:14:11,687
It's not gonna go well.

1346
01:14:11,747 --> 01:14:13,977
Um, but of course, Bitcoin could do that.

1347
01:14:14,167 --> 01:14:19,317
Bitcoin could, you know, uh, introduce
that game theory and, and, and

1348
01:14:19,587 --> 01:14:21,787
introduce true costs on everything.

1349
01:14:22,307 --> 01:14:24,157
And yeah, I mean, you're right.

1350
01:14:24,357 --> 01:14:28,007
Um, I'm not trying to
argue that it worked.

1351
01:14:28,527 --> 01:14:32,497
What I'm trying to argue is that
there are some elements of the EU

1352
01:14:32,497 --> 01:14:34,347
that I don't think are horrible.

1353
01:14:34,347 --> 01:14:39,797
And like, like Luke said, some
of the ideas were worthwhile.

1354
01:14:40,647 --> 01:14:43,927
It's just that something that
really bothers me is that to

1355
01:14:43,927 --> 01:14:50,537
this day, Austria has only joined
the EU in 1995, which is What?

1356
01:14:50,957 --> 01:14:53,577
10, 20, 30 years ago.

1357
01:14:54,620 --> 01:14:58,530
and to this day, there's no political
debate about anything that's going on

1358
01:14:58,530 --> 01:15:03,960
in Brussels and anything that's going
on, on a, on a, on a European level.

1359
01:15:04,620 --> 01:15:08,550
And this is really, really a big problem
because you do have that in the US.

1360
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:12,550
I know that the debate is extremely
superficial and stupid, but it's

1361
01:15:12,740 --> 01:15:14,330
still, at least it's existing.

1362
01:15:14,970 --> 01:15:18,430
Uh, in, in Europe, it's basically.

1363
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:22,210
Um, and, and, That's really a problem.

1364
01:15:22,250 --> 01:15:22,980
We don't have it.

1365
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:25,740
You're basically, you said democracy.

1366
01:15:25,830 --> 01:15:27,460
We don't have a European democracy.

1367
01:15:28,090 --> 01:15:34,893
We have some sort of technocratic,
pseudo socialist state in Brussels.

1368
01:15:34,933 --> 01:15:40,347
I mean, even the, the, the, what's the
title of the, of the, what's it called?

1369
01:15:40,347 --> 01:15:42,047
What's it, it's a Kommissar, right?

1370
01:15:43,227 --> 01:15:46,727
They are, like, literally they're using
the same words in the Soviet Union.

1371
01:15:46,877 --> 01:15:47,947
The Kommissar.

1372
01:15:48,167 --> 01:15:48,677
in English.

1373
01:15:48,677 --> 01:15:48,747
I

1374
01:15:48,867 --> 01:15:49,707
commissioner, right?

1375
01:15:49,747 --> 01:15:50,727
Yeah, yeah, yeah, commissioner.

1376
01:15:51,027 --> 01:15:51,437
It's commissioner.

1377
01:15:51,447 --> 01:15:56,557
And the commissioner, and then there's
the, there's the, Uh, uh, the Rat,

1378
01:15:57,027 --> 01:15:58,867
that's the council, or the Soviet.

1379
01:16:00,015 --> 01:16:01,305
Tsar is like

1380
01:16:01,365 --> 01:16:04,915
worst of both worlds
from old Russia, right?

1381
01:16:05,525 --> 01:16:07,135
You're a Commie Tsar.

1382
01:16:07,290 --> 01:16:07,680
yeah.

1383
01:16:08,485 --> 01:16:09,180
. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1384
01:16:09,890 --> 01:16:10,160
yeah.

1385
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:14,090
So I, I don't wanna defend you, but I
also don't wanna say like, it's all bad.

1386
01:16:14,210 --> 01:16:16,130
It's like the traveling is nice.

1387
01:16:16,370 --> 01:16:18,540
The, the roaming is good.

1388
01:16:18,540 --> 01:16:20,670
Is that like, I don't have
to pay when I go to Sweden.

1389
01:16:20,670 --> 01:16:22,860
I don't have to pay
extraordinary amounts of money.

1390
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:24,750
You know this, but that's
small stuff, right?

1391
01:16:24,900 --> 01:16:30,090
You could do that in other ways, but,
and the euro as at least on, like

1392
01:16:30,210 --> 01:16:33,510
having one currency in all countries,
of course that's, that's a good thing.

1393
01:16:33,510 --> 01:16:35,220
But we will have that with bitcoin.

1394
01:16:35,900 --> 01:16:36,320
Everywhere

1395
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:37,200
in the world, basically.

1396
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:38,460
So we don't need the Euro for that.

1397
01:16:39,148 --> 01:16:40,818
But still, like all the

1398
01:16:40,818 --> 01:16:46,748
good things about Europe, about
the EU, like open borders and, uh,

1399
01:16:46,988 --> 01:16:51,168
you know, being able to phone other
European countries without being,

1400
01:16:51,168 --> 01:16:53,088
uh, having to pay enormous sums.

1401
01:16:53,478 --> 01:16:56,558
All of those things are
really just tearing down.

1402
01:16:57,073 --> 01:17:01,683
Old, bad government decisions, like
putting the border up there in the first

1403
01:17:01,693 --> 01:17:06,203
place and not letting people in who could
pay for themselves, or, uh, you know,

1404
01:17:06,543 --> 01:17:13,003
making phone, uh, networks national and
making it more expensive to call abroad.

1405
01:17:13,053 --> 01:17:18,973
So, so there, all the good parts are
effectively just, uh, the abandonment

1406
01:17:18,993 --> 01:17:21,663
of old, bad government decisions.

1407
01:17:22,265 --> 01:17:28,855
And if the EU could have stayed that way
and just been an institution that takes

1408
01:17:28,855 --> 01:17:34,765
away stupid stuff, uh, that governments
did, then, then it would be great.

1409
01:17:35,265 --> 01:17:39,920
But it became a bureaucratic Uh,
institution in its own right.

1410
01:17:39,950 --> 01:17:45,280
And now it's like the internet rules
are ridiculous with the accept cookies,

1411
01:17:45,350 --> 01:17:50,130
which costs so much in extra effort
and time from, for every internet

1412
01:17:50,130 --> 01:17:54,740
developer that has, that wants even
a chance to operate in Europe and the

1413
01:17:54,740 --> 01:18:00,120
GDPR and all this stuff that is sold to
us, like being for our protection and

1414
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:04,900
stuff, it's, it's just bullshit, like
that people, uh, take responsibility

1415
01:18:04,910 --> 01:18:06,030
for their own actions.

1416
01:18:06,260 --> 01:18:06,820
It's bullshit.

1417
01:18:06,830 --> 01:18:07,610
No, I, I

1418
01:18:07,610 --> 01:18:11,650
agree 100 percent and I just
remembered it's a long, long time

1419
01:18:11,650 --> 01:18:14,700
ago, but it was already in my phase
of reading Austrian economics.

1420
01:18:14,700 --> 01:18:15,990
I actually, I went to Brussels.

1421
01:18:15,990 --> 01:18:17,100
I went to the EU parliament.

1422
01:18:17,100 --> 01:18:24,270
I don't know in what capacity it was some
sort of, um, journalist press press trip.

1423
01:18:24,270 --> 01:18:24,540
Right.

1424
01:18:25,630 --> 01:18:29,060
Um, but I did bring a
Mises book on bureaucracy.

1425
01:18:29,430 --> 01:18:31,790
Um, and I actually read
that in the EU parliament.

1426
01:18:31,820 --> 01:18:34,480
Um, and I think it, it,
it explains everything.

1427
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:39,780
It's just that, you know, we talked
about, we talked about not putting

1428
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:45,050
too much energy into the stuff
that you, that you, um, don't like.

1429
01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:45,380
Right.

1430
01:18:45,480 --> 01:18:48,570
So I don't really know what
to do about the EU, honestly.

1431
01:18:48,670 --> 01:18:57,713
Um, I, I think that certain freedoms
need to be, um, um, guarded, especially

1432
01:18:58,128 --> 01:19:02,208
Traveling, something that during the
pandemic was, um, restricted as well.

1433
01:19:02,778 --> 01:19:07,498
Uh, so basically when, when, when
Lagarde talks about the escape, right?

1434
01:19:08,028 --> 01:19:09,528
The escapes needs to be open.

1435
01:19:09,908 --> 01:19:10,808
That's important.

1436
01:19:10,808 --> 01:19:17,718
If, if, if like the worst case would
be, you cannot even leave the EU

1437
01:19:17,718 --> 01:19:18,748
anymore, right?

1438
01:19:18,918 --> 01:19:19,758
You have to stay.

1439
01:19:20,558 --> 01:19:21,958
That's what's happening in Canada.

1440
01:19:22,968 --> 01:19:25,608
They're enforcing an exit tax now.

1441
01:19:26,208 --> 01:19:28,278
Like, uh, a ridiculous amount.

1442
01:19:28,518 --> 01:19:30,388
What was it, like, 250,

1443
01:19:30,418 --> 01:19:31,388
000 or something?

1444
01:19:31,978 --> 01:19:32,458
That's, it's,

1445
01:19:32,778 --> 01:19:37,068
that's first, uh, that's been
debunked apparently, and it was

1446
01:19:37,068 --> 01:19:40,868
25, 000, and in Canadian money,
that's a lot for Canadians, but

1447
01:19:40,878 --> 01:19:44,608
that's really like, only like 300,
so that's, so that's, it's nothing.

1448
01:19:45,208 --> 01:19:45,838
Oh, really?

1449
01:19:45,978 --> 01:19:46,388
Okay.

1450
01:19:46,568 --> 01:19:47,278
Okay, okay.

1451
01:19:47,358 --> 01:19:47,828
Yeah, yeah.

1452
01:19:48,088 --> 01:19:50,268
Thanks for debunking it.

1453
01:19:50,268 --> 01:19:55,988
Still, uh, Yeah, I, uh, when I went
to Brussels, which was my toll ship

1454
01:19:55,988 --> 01:19:59,858
days and, and with the high school
students, the thing that struck me was

1455
01:19:59,888 --> 01:20:05,938
the luxurious nature of the lobbyists
hotels, like the, the, the whole, the

1456
01:20:05,938 --> 01:20:12,358
whole part of Brussels that was dedicated
to lobbyism and how, like the corruption

1457
01:20:12,358 --> 01:20:19,523
is just, uh, it's just So weird, like,
or it makes perfect sense because like,

1458
01:20:19,903 --> 01:20:21,183
feed off each other, right?

1459
01:20:21,435 --> 01:20:22,545
We haven't even talked about

1460
01:20:22,955 --> 01:20:23,595
the fact that.

1461
01:20:24,215 --> 01:20:27,055
Yes, it's socialist, but it's
also corporatist in a way

1462
01:20:27,105 --> 01:20:29,175
that's like the GDPR, right?

1463
01:20:29,235 --> 01:20:33,115
Stupid GDPR is like, like you
have an idea for a startup.

1464
01:20:33,115 --> 01:20:34,705
It could be the next Amazon.

1465
01:20:34,735 --> 01:20:37,855
Oh shit, but you can't even start it
up because you cannot afford this GDPR.

1466
01:20:38,545 --> 01:20:42,145
But this company, the big company,
so that's of course, but that's

1467
01:20:42,145 --> 01:20:43,185
the same thing that's happening

1468
01:20:43,185 --> 01:20:43,715
in the US.

1469
01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:44,200
yeah.

1470
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:44,780
Artificial

1471
01:20:44,830 --> 01:20:49,610
monopolies, uh, through intellectual
property laws and other stupid stuff,

1472
01:20:49,610 --> 01:20:53,310
they just put up these barriers
to entry, which is effectively

1473
01:20:53,310 --> 01:20:54,750
what the lockdowns did as well.

1474
01:20:54,810 --> 01:20:57,740
You know, just kill the smaller
companies and we can, we can

1475
01:20:57,740 --> 01:21:00,030
grab, we do a big land grab

1476
01:21:00,050 --> 01:21:00,310
here.

1477
01:21:00,795 --> 01:21:03,035
And that's, of course,
that goes to, that, that

1478
01:21:03,035 --> 01:21:07,585
leads to some sort of, you
know, communist whatever.

1479
01:21:07,975 --> 01:21:12,325
It's, it's, it's, even with the
digital euro, you know, what's the

1480
01:21:12,325 --> 01:21:16,185
fifth point of the communist manifesto
is there's only one bank, right?

1481
01:21:16,235 --> 01:21:17,605
And it's the state bank.

1482
01:21:18,155 --> 01:21:21,005
Well, that's why the bank, that's
why the banks are nervous about the

1483
01:21:21,005 --> 01:21:24,145
digital euro, because with digital euro,
you can finally just drop the banks.

1484
01:21:24,965 --> 01:21:26,205
You don't need the banks anymore.

1485
01:21:26,725 --> 01:21:28,825
Um, when they fuck up,
you can just say, okay.

1486
01:21:29,405 --> 01:21:30,745
We're not printing any money for you.

1487
01:21:30,755 --> 01:21:33,735
We're just using the, we're just
using the digital euro to safeguard

1488
01:21:33,805 --> 01:21:35,295
the deposits and the bank can go.

1489
01:21:35,785 --> 01:21:37,455
And then of course you
centralize it even more.

1490
01:21:37,455 --> 01:21:38,545
So there is centralization.

1491
01:21:38,785 --> 01:21:41,805
I think centralization, it doesn't
matter if it's socialist or

1492
01:21:41,805 --> 01:21:45,125
capitalist or whatever, it's fiat
centralization that we have to fight

1493
01:21:45,565 --> 01:21:48,005
and that we have to, guard against.

1494
01:21:48,005 --> 01:21:53,795
And, and Bitcoin is a very important tool
and, and the entrepreneurial stuff that's

1495
01:21:53,795 --> 01:22:00,665
happening in Bitcoin happens in a world
that is not so much by, by these, by

1496
01:22:00,665 --> 01:22:03,205
these, you know, old style governments.

1497
01:22:03,275 --> 01:22:06,565
And I do believe in the, still believe
in the, did you read, do you guys

1498
01:22:06,565 --> 01:22:08,255
read the, the sovereign individual?

1499
01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:09,600
absolutely.

1500
01:22:09,670 --> 01:22:10,130
Love it.

1501
01:22:10,475 --> 01:22:13,015
So I do, I do believe
in that thesis still.

1502
01:22:13,245 --> 01:22:17,615
Um, and, and I, I see it playing out
in very, in various different ways.

1503
01:22:17,665 --> 01:22:20,265
And I do see positives and
it's not just negatives.

1504
01:22:20,315 --> 01:22:23,435
There's many things to be hopeful
about and many things like there's

1505
01:22:23,975 --> 01:22:28,235
these things that we talked about now,
the, the, the fiat system, the EU,

1506
01:22:28,275 --> 01:22:32,805
even the, the, the American system
to an extent, they're so broken.

1507
01:22:33,500 --> 01:22:35,040
And they're so far gone.

1508
01:22:35,210 --> 01:22:39,590
Um, and yeah, I mean, we, we started
out talking about the Soviet Union.

1509
01:22:39,590 --> 01:22:44,760
It doesn't matter if it's communist
or they are so bureaucratic and so

1510
01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:48,340
corrupt and so far gone that the
only thing they can do is collapse.

1511
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:52,510
It's not, they're not, they're never
going to just reform themselves.

1512
01:22:53,170 --> 01:22:55,690
It's just gonna, you know, collab.

1513
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:58,380
What's the, what's the movie
now that that's in theaters?

1514
01:22:58,440 --> 01:22:59,260
I want to see it.

1515
01:22:59,330 --> 01:23:00,140
Civil War.

1516
01:23:00,610 --> 01:23:00,930
Right.

1517
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:03,890
They're already having movies
in America about, about,

1518
01:23:03,940 --> 01:23:05,580
about America falling apart.

1519
01:23:05,995 --> 01:23:06,895
but apparently

1520
01:23:06,895 --> 01:23:13,515
it's not very, uh, uh, uh, it's not a
very likely war they're depicting because

1521
01:23:13,625 --> 01:23:19,435
in, in that movie, Texas and California
are fighting the other states together.

1522
01:23:19,505 --> 01:23:21,345
And that's not how America works.

1523
01:23:21,345 --> 01:23:27,105
Like, well, anyway,

1524
01:23:27,845 --> 01:23:28,745
uh, you

1525
01:23:28,745 --> 01:23:30,495
just, you have to
enlighten me on something.

1526
01:23:30,505 --> 01:23:32,915
How did you, how did
you make it to Brussels?

1527
01:23:32,915 --> 01:23:34,525
I was pretty sure that it's

1528
01:23:34,845 --> 01:23:35,475
inland.

1529
01:23:36,475 --> 01:23:36,875
yeah, yeah.

1530
01:23:36,875 --> 01:23:39,305
We took a train, you know.

1531
01:23:39,855 --> 01:23:44,705
We, we didn't go by, by, uh,
with the tall ship to Brussels.

1532
01:23:44,705 --> 01:23:45,635
That's not what happened.

1533
01:23:45,825 --> 01:23:47,285
We were in Antwerp, I believe,

1534
01:23:47,635 --> 01:23:49,255
oh, okay, okay, well, you were

1535
01:23:49,385 --> 01:23:49,405
it

1536
01:23:49,435 --> 01:23:49,515
to use,

1537
01:23:49,655 --> 01:23:50,265
a bus.

1538
01:23:50,565 --> 01:23:57,285
So yeah, yeah, yeah, that, uh, there,
there was a lot of tide that year.

1539
01:23:59,835 --> 01:24:00,615
tide was high,

1540
01:24:01,077 --> 01:24:02,917
And one thing, one thing that's

1541
01:24:02,927 --> 01:24:08,447
really, really horrible about the EU
is the whole united and strength from

1542
01:24:08,447 --> 01:24:10,497
diversity, but we hate diversity.

1543
01:24:12,352 --> 01:24:15,212
But there's so much talk about
diversity, but it's only a word.

1544
01:24:15,502 --> 01:24:17,652
It's not like there's
no diversity of thought.

1545
01:24:17,652 --> 01:24:20,862
There's no, and especially if
there's diversity in nationality

1546
01:24:20,862 --> 01:24:23,052
and history, people don't want that.

1547
01:24:23,122 --> 01:24:23,432
Right.

1548
01:24:23,932 --> 01:24:26,792
Even though that's like the
decentralized nature of Europe

1549
01:24:26,852 --> 01:24:28,652
would be our biggest strength.

1550
01:26:07,390 --> 01:26:09,210
So, so I, if I recall

1551
01:26:09,210 --> 01:26:12,200
correctly, the, the lockdowns
were really horrible in Austria.

1552
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:17,710
Uh, and you had to wear, like,
a star to show that you were

1553
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:20,060
vaccinated, or something very,

1554
01:26:20,070 --> 01:26:22,030
very akin to the World War II.

1555
01:26:22,390 --> 01:26:23,450
So the problem is here.

1556
01:26:23,450 --> 01:26:24,020
The problem is

1557
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:27,360
that, that you shouldn't believe
what you read in media, right?

1558
01:26:27,660 --> 01:26:30,820
If I believe what I read, read
in the media about Sweden, it's

1559
01:26:30,820 --> 01:26:33,590
like, you can't leave your house
without getting shot by some gang.

1560
01:26:33,910 --> 01:26:35,990
Well, there's some truth,
a pinch of truth to it.

1561
01:26:36,993 --> 01:26:38,533
the thing with, with, with.

1562
01:26:39,178 --> 01:26:44,238
It is something that really, really, uh,
has been like, people have been telling

1563
01:26:44,238 --> 01:26:45,408
me about this all the time, right?

1564
01:26:46,758 --> 01:26:51,670
The pandemic or the lockdowns in Austria,
it's the, like I said at the beginning,

1565
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:56,570
yes, they sent out the press release that
there will be, uh, mandatory vaccinations,

1566
01:26:56,770 --> 01:27:00,580
but in the, in the second they did
that, nobody, like everybody else just

1567
01:27:00,610 --> 01:27:01,880
said that they're never going to do it.

1568
01:27:02,100 --> 01:27:03,160
You know, nobody believed it.

1569
01:27:03,380 --> 01:27:08,140
And even if, you know, even if people
who didn't want to get vaccinated already

1570
01:27:08,140 --> 01:27:10,820
had fake vaccination passports anyway.

1571
01:27:11,355 --> 01:27:11,655
Right.

1572
01:27:12,105 --> 01:27:17,815
So actually, to be honest, that story,
I mean, it was never as, never as

1573
01:27:17,815 --> 01:27:19,605
bad as, as, as it was in Germany.

1574
01:27:19,825 --> 01:27:25,385
When I went to, I went to Zitadelle
2021, like the first Bitcoin maximalist

1575
01:27:25,455 --> 01:27:30,495
Zitadelle in Eastern Germany, we had
the Ordnungsamt, which is like the,

1576
01:27:30,925 --> 01:27:34,595
not, not, not the police, but the people
who are like dressed like the police,

1577
01:27:34,595 --> 01:27:39,085
but they don't have guns, but they look
like they are supposed to be looking at,

1578
01:27:39,475 --> 01:27:41,195
are you all like abiding by the rules?

1579
01:27:41,195 --> 01:27:41,475
Right.

1580
01:27:41,810 --> 01:27:43,500
And if you don't, they
call the real police.

1581
01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:44,900
We don't even have that in Austria.

1582
01:27:45,160 --> 01:27:48,640
They were there within, within
20 minutes to see if we were

1583
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:50,180
wearing our masks, right?

1584
01:27:50,860 --> 01:27:53,990
So I'm not saying there
haven't been gross overreach.

1585
01:27:54,040 --> 01:27:56,956
I'm not saying there haven't
been stupid, um, uh, incidents.

1586
01:27:57,236 --> 01:28:02,246
I'm not saying that there haven't been
stupid police men or women who abused

1587
01:28:02,246 --> 01:28:06,603
their power during the pandemic, but
the story of Austria being, Going

1588
01:28:06,603 --> 01:28:11,473
down the route of a fascist hellhole
is it's, it wasn't like outside of

1589
01:28:11,473 --> 01:28:12,753
the big cities, the pandemic never

1590
01:28:12,753 --> 01:28:13,553
happened, basically.

1591
01:28:14,573 --> 01:28:15,773
Uh, that's good to know, that's

1592
01:28:15,773 --> 01:28:16,653
very reassuring.

1593
01:28:16,653 --> 01:28:19,993
It's like, uh, okay, I'm not
saying this, I'm not saying that,

1594
01:28:20,073 --> 01:28:21,763
but I am saying that Germany was

1595
01:28:21,763 --> 01:28:22,303
far worse.

1596
01:28:23,543 --> 01:28:24,043
I mean,

1597
01:28:24,863 --> 01:28:28,033
as far as I know, I haven't seen,
like, I haven't been in every,

1598
01:28:28,163 --> 01:28:29,883
every point, you know what I mean?

1599
01:28:29,883 --> 01:28:30,183
Right.

1600
01:28:30,263 --> 01:28:37,520
Um, but, but, and honestly, I think that
the lockdowns For a lack of a better

1601
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:40,990
word, I think that they have woken
more people up than, than they have,

1602
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:43,330
like, succeeded in, in controlling.

1603
01:28:44,032 --> 01:28:48,032
there is, there is still, like,
people who are clearly damaged,

1604
01:28:48,382 --> 01:28:51,962
and still, like, there's still
people running around with masks.

1605
01:28:52,982 --> 01:28:53,282
Okay.

1606
01:28:54,522 --> 01:28:55,082
not many.

1607
01:28:55,802 --> 01:29:01,253
Um, and, and there is a, there is a,
there is a story here for Bitcoin as well.

1608
01:29:01,253 --> 01:29:06,363
It's like, I saw this on, on, on
some Austrian newspapers, like, was

1609
01:29:06,363 --> 01:29:09,273
a question, the comment section is
like, so when does the pandemic end?

1610
01:29:10,233 --> 01:29:10,593
You know?

1611
01:29:10,843 --> 01:29:13,733
And the first, the first answer
was, well, the pandemic ends when

1612
01:29:13,733 --> 01:29:17,413
nobody in the bus is wearing masks
anymore, regardless of the mandates.

1613
01:29:18,393 --> 01:29:18,733
You know?

1614
01:29:19,293 --> 01:29:20,573
And this is exactly what happened.

1615
01:29:21,239 --> 01:29:27,239
when I stopped, when I stopped wearing
the masks, even though officially

1616
01:29:27,259 --> 01:29:28,629
in Vienna, you still had to wear it.

1617
01:29:29,079 --> 01:29:32,749
You just sit down, you just sit down
with, with, with a couple of other

1618
01:29:32,749 --> 01:29:35,569
young guys who were not wearing masks
and nobody would ever say anything.

1619
01:29:35,919 --> 01:29:41,339
It's, it's, but yeah, I mean, I wasn't
very openly political about any of

1620
01:29:41,389 --> 01:29:45,179
this because I was, I too, I was
scared in the beginning, at least.

1621
01:29:46,539 --> 01:29:47,039
I don't know.

1622
01:29:47,229 --> 01:29:51,139
But, but I think that
many people learned a lot.

1623
01:29:51,564 --> 01:29:55,174
And I think that the whole, we wouldn't
be sitting here doing this podcast

1624
01:29:55,254 --> 01:29:57,784
on some sort of Zoom thing without

1625
01:29:57,784 --> 01:29:59,084
the whole pandemic thing.

1626
01:30:00,140 --> 01:30:00,750
Very true.

1627
01:30:01,675 --> 01:30:02,445
No, and

1628
01:30:02,615 --> 01:30:07,075
that's a great point, and we
talk about that all the time,

1629
01:30:07,075 --> 01:30:08,545
like the interconnectedness.

1630
01:30:08,545 --> 01:30:11,675
We do this pod remotely from
two different countries.

1631
01:30:12,375 --> 01:30:17,815
Usually our guest is in a third the
whole time, and lots of positives

1632
01:30:17,815 --> 01:30:23,060
to take from the last years for
those of us who have been in there.

1633
01:30:23,510 --> 01:30:25,330
seen what's been going on.

1634
01:30:25,330 --> 01:30:31,610
And I just kind of wanted to get your
take on on sort of a related point here.

1635
01:30:33,280 --> 01:30:38,550
Because we've we've maybe unintentionally
spent a lot of time on the doom and gloom

1636
01:30:38,570 --> 01:30:42,190
of it all for most of this conversation,
but it started pretty, pretty upbeat

1637
01:30:42,190 --> 01:30:43,780
and optimistic and bullish and all this.

1638
01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:48,430
I'm curious about what's
what's going on in your world?

1639
01:30:48,430 --> 01:30:54,800
Like, what are you optimistic about in
Bitcoin in general, but maybe maybe our

1640
01:30:55,350 --> 01:30:58,270
audience is less familiar with what's
going on in the German speaking world.

1641
01:30:58,300 --> 01:30:59,510
So yeah, what what are you

1642
01:30:59,510 --> 01:31:00,890
optimistic about these days?

1643
01:31:01,965 --> 01:31:04,475
So what's really interesting is

1644
01:31:05,055 --> 01:31:06,845
like, that's what I said
at the beginning, right?

1645
01:31:06,885 --> 01:31:10,135
I've been doing my, my, my
YouTube channel, my podcast for

1646
01:31:10,195 --> 01:31:11,475
about two and a half years now.

1647
01:31:11,475 --> 01:31:11,705
Right.

1648
01:31:12,375 --> 01:31:22,348
Um, and I have all like grossing downloads
on, on, um, uh, if, if I add audio and

1649
01:31:22,348 --> 01:31:26,678
video together a month, about a hundred.

1650
01:31:27,028 --> 01:31:31,728
20 to 150, 000 downloads
each month, right?

1651
01:31:32,598 --> 01:31:38,168
That puts me after two and a
half years, puts me easily into

1652
01:31:38,168 --> 01:31:42,288
the top 10 podcasts in Austria.

1653
01:31:44,238 --> 01:31:45,788
I don't know the numbers.

1654
01:31:45,838 --> 01:31:49,808
I don't know the numbers for Germany,
but we have thousands of podcasts.

1655
01:31:49,818 --> 01:31:53,268
So there's been a podcast award
here done by the state radio.

1656
01:31:53,618 --> 01:31:57,968
There's 1, 300 podcasts nominated
for this award only for Austria.

1657
01:31:58,698 --> 01:32:00,248
So, uh, so there's two.

1658
01:32:00,618 --> 01:32:02,288
Like, there's two
possible reasons for this.

1659
01:32:03,248 --> 01:32:07,118
Reason one is because I'm
just an awesome guy, right?

1660
01:32:07,408 --> 01:32:08,958
That's, that's one possibility.

1661
01:32:08,958 --> 01:32:13,918
And I don't want to, I don't want to
count it out, but I think that the

1662
01:32:14,108 --> 01:32:19,558
second option is more likely that
Bitcoin as a topic touches so many

1663
01:32:19,588 --> 01:32:21,178
people in so many different ways.

1664
01:32:21,843 --> 01:32:27,053
Inflation, freedom, um, self
determination, control over your own

1665
01:32:27,053 --> 01:32:34,893
life, savings, um, and even down to the
energy stuff that, that there's basically

1666
01:32:34,923 --> 01:32:36,573
some, something in there for anyone.

1667
01:32:37,253 --> 01:32:47,233
And really think that people come
for the number go up probably most of

1668
01:32:47,233 --> 01:32:50,343
them, but they stay for the optimism.

1669
01:32:51,693 --> 01:32:52,773
And this is what I did.

1670
01:32:53,753 --> 01:32:55,173
When I went to Cittadella.

1671
01:32:55,728 --> 01:32:59,048
I knew immediately that I want to
do this, what I'm doing right now,

1672
01:32:59,048 --> 01:33:02,628
because I knew that in the German
speaking world back then, it was

1673
01:33:02,628 --> 01:33:04,788
still smaller than it is today.

1674
01:33:05,518 --> 01:33:06,628
And I knew that I could do it.

1675
01:33:06,648 --> 01:33:09,578
Like with my background as a journalist,
I knew that I could, I could be the,

1676
01:33:09,588 --> 01:33:13,458
basically, basically I was listening
to Peter McCormick all the time.

1677
01:33:13,488 --> 01:33:16,058
And I said, okay, I can do
the same thing in German.

1678
01:33:16,768 --> 01:33:18,858
That's, that's basically
that, that's my business plan.

1679
01:33:18,888 --> 01:33:25,670
That's, And, and it worked and it worked
because, because there is a growing number

1680
01:33:25,670 --> 01:33:31,610
of people who, for many different reasons,
want something different and Bitcoin is,

1681
01:33:31,730 --> 01:33:35,980
that's what I, what we talked about, um,
when we talked about the Soviet Union,

1682
01:33:36,230 --> 01:33:43,290
Bitcoin is this, this Other thing that
this, this, this thing that promises for

1683
01:33:43,290 --> 01:33:45,060
lack of a better word, a better future.

1684
01:33:45,290 --> 01:33:46,880
Like there is some hope there, right?

1685
01:33:46,920 --> 01:33:50,300
And there's optimism and there
is, there is, um, fun to be had.

1686
01:33:50,370 --> 01:33:53,080
There's so who's having
fun anymore, right?

1687
01:33:53,110 --> 01:33:59,520
It's like, uh, there's, there's, when was
the last time you saw a funny TV show?

1688
01:34:01,665 --> 01:34:02,035
Right.

1689
01:34:02,675 --> 01:34:03,185
Um,

1690
01:34:03,420 --> 01:34:04,330
Yeah, there's nothing.

1691
01:34:04,575 --> 01:34:07,335
what's in like the last, I think
the last thing that was funny

1692
01:34:07,575 --> 01:34:11,545
was Parks and Recreation and only
because it had Ron Swanson, right.

1693
01:34:12,705 --> 01:34:14,315
And that's like 10 years ago.

1694
01:34:14,745 --> 01:34:20,365
So, so, and then this is
something that's really helping.

1695
01:34:20,365 --> 01:34:24,815
And then you see the power of
memes and the power of, of, of, of

1696
01:34:25,015 --> 01:34:32,825
humor combining with, with real,
like, um, real, uh, Um, topics.

1697
01:34:32,885 --> 01:34:35,385
And, and one of the reasons
why I think that podcasts,

1698
01:34:37,545 --> 01:34:42,265
about are so successful is that Bitcoin
also, it's very attractive to very,

1699
01:34:42,265 --> 01:34:44,555
very smart people and very different.

1700
01:34:44,565 --> 01:34:49,685
Like I can have a 26 year old
and a 84 year old and do like

1701
01:34:49,735 --> 01:34:52,975
two episodes from two different,
completely different points of view.

1702
01:34:53,375 --> 01:34:56,605
Um, it's so interesting to
meet these people, right?

1703
01:34:56,605 --> 01:34:59,265
I see Bitcoin very much as
a social network as well.

1704
01:34:59,840 --> 01:35:05,280
Um, and, and, um, and there's so
much like positivity because you

1705
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:07,290
have a tool now that you can use.

1706
01:35:07,360 --> 01:35:13,160
And, and many, many people who have been
unhappy with the way things have been

1707
01:35:13,160 --> 01:35:18,770
going have been, you know, conditioned
to a world where there's been lots

1708
01:35:18,770 --> 01:35:21,250
of complaints, but no real solution.

1709
01:35:22,440 --> 01:35:25,620
now we have to learn, okay, there
is a solution, but we always

1710
01:35:25,620 --> 01:35:28,290
thought that the solution would
be the government does something

1711
01:35:28,290 --> 01:35:30,560
different, does something differently.

1712
01:35:31,160 --> 01:35:33,000
No, the solution is we
do something different.

1713
01:35:33,450 --> 01:35:34,260
We have to do it.

1714
01:35:34,670 --> 01:35:36,350
Um, and that's the only way it can do.

1715
01:35:36,490 --> 01:35:41,390
So the only way to, to fix the
EU and to fix your own, your own

1716
01:35:41,390 --> 01:35:44,630
country and to fix your, your
city is you have to do something.

1717
01:35:44,830 --> 01:35:49,060
You have to, to, and Bitcoin
is the perfect, the perfect,

1718
01:35:49,900 --> 01:35:51,820
um, basis to start this.

1719
01:35:52,350 --> 01:35:55,900
Because it's an actual basis and,
and, and we, we, we literally like

1720
01:35:55,910 --> 01:36:00,312
why is Bitcoin so successful as,
as, as a, as a social network,

1721
01:36:00,312 --> 01:36:02,440
because we literally share values.

1722
01:36:03,600 --> 01:36:07,130
Not just in a, in a metaphorical sense,
because we think this and that, no,

1723
01:36:07,180 --> 01:36:09,340
we, we, we share the value of Bitcoin.

1724
01:36:09,370 --> 01:36:15,600
We, we, we agreed that one of the, of the,
of the magic internet meme money coins

1725
01:36:15,650 --> 01:36:18,510
is now, uh, almost 60, 000 euros, right?

1726
01:36:18,950 --> 01:36:25,060
So we can, we are willing to
sell two, like not buy two cars.

1727
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:27,130
And instead we buy a number on the screen.

1728
01:36:28,460 --> 01:36:31,000
It's actually, when you, when
you, when you think about

1729
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:32,340
it like that, it's totally,

1730
01:36:32,510 --> 01:36:33,370
totally crazy.

1731
01:36:34,535 --> 01:36:35,445
Niko, my friend,

1732
01:36:35,925 --> 01:36:41,365
those are, that's a perfect rant to end
this episode on, I think, uh, because

1733
01:36:41,465 --> 01:36:45,925
like, it's also like the main thesis
of the book we're currently writing.

1734
01:36:46,195 --> 01:36:49,075
So the mind meld of
Bitcoiners is a real thing.

1735
01:36:49,075 --> 01:36:55,115
I think we're so aligned and that's why
we enjoy each other's company so much.

1736
01:36:55,165 --> 01:37:00,105
And, uh, as you say, the optimism is
there because we are the shared value.

1737
01:37:00,165 --> 01:37:03,585
Like we, we, we are
literally the coins we are.

1738
01:37:03,905 --> 01:37:08,645
The thing it's so, uh,
I absolutely love that.

1739
01:37:08,655 --> 01:37:11,725
Thank you so much for coming on the
show and looking forward to seeing

1740
01:37:11,725 --> 01:37:17,605
you in Prague and, uh, grabbing a beer
or two and good luck with everything.

1741
01:37:17,605 --> 01:37:17,955
Any,

1742
01:37:17,985 --> 01:37:19,995
anywhere you want to direct our listeners.

1743
01:37:21,110 --> 01:37:22,060
So I do, I

1744
01:37:22,060 --> 01:37:26,100
do have, uh, uh, an English language,
uh, substack, but I have to say

1745
01:37:26,100 --> 01:37:29,110
that I don't really, um, um, feel it
right now because I don't have the

1746
01:37:29,120 --> 01:37:30,730
time, but it's, it's fixthemoney.

1747
01:37:30,760 --> 01:37:31,190
net.

1748
01:37:31,660 --> 01:37:37,620
And for anybody who, who, uh, speaks
German or wants to just read, uh, um, the,

1749
01:37:37,700 --> 01:37:43,400
the subtitles provided by, uh, YouTube,
um, you can go to, to, to NikoHilch.

1750
01:37:43,420 --> 01:37:46,020
com and you'll find all my links
to all my social media stuff.

1751
01:37:46,040 --> 01:37:51,320
I actually, I, I, one of the reasons
why I did, um, uh, concentrate on

1752
01:37:51,330 --> 01:37:55,570
doing the German stuff is because I do
believe with AI within a year or so,

1753
01:37:55,790 --> 01:37:59,380
you can just press a button and then
you can listen to my stuff in Swedish.

1754
01:37:59,945 --> 01:38:02,565
Or Brazilian, uh, Portuguese or Spanish.

1755
01:38:03,645 --> 01:38:09,235
And that's going to be great for content
producers and journalists and podcasters.

1756
01:38:09,505 --> 01:38:11,055
And I'm very much looking forward to that.

1757
01:38:11,175 --> 01:38:12,675
Until then, we still do English.

1758
01:38:14,045 --> 01:38:14,675
Wunderbar.

1759
01:38:15,425 --> 01:38:17,565
So, uh, yeah, thanks a

1760
01:38:17,605 --> 01:38:17,925
Thank you.

1761
01:38:18,085 --> 01:38:21,285
And, uh, yeah, I'm going to, I'm
going to see you in Prague and I'm

1762
01:38:21,285 --> 01:38:22,805
very much looking forward to that.

1763
01:38:23,978 --> 01:38:24,928
Yeah, likewise.

1764
01:38:25,058 --> 01:38:25,608
So, yeah.

1765
01:38:25,648 --> 01:38:25,888
Thanks.

1766
01:38:25,938 --> 01:38:26,178
Thanks

1767
01:38:26,178 --> 01:38:26,648
again, Niko.

1768
01:38:26,668 --> 01:38:27,408
This was awesome.

1769
01:38:27,428 --> 01:38:29,718
And, uh, this has been the
Freedom Footprint Show.

1770
01:38:30,168 --> 01:38:30,848
Thanks for listening.

1771
01:38:31,673 --> 01:38:32,313
Brush your teeth.