Bitcoin in the European Union with Niko Jilch - FFS #113

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Niko, welcome to the
Freedom Footprint Show.

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Thanks for joining us.

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Hi Luke.

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Hi Knut.

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It's good to see you guys.

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Good to see you

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too, friend.

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it's been a while.

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We, we, we just, we were just
talking about Madera, which feels

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like a lifetime ago, even though
it was like day before yesterday or

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something.

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It was, it was a great time.

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I was actually, I, I, like literally
two minutes ago, I finished watching,

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uh, a Michael Saylor interview where
he talked about Madeira and, and, I

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do spend a lot of time listening to
Michael Saylor interviews, you know,

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whenever, whenever I don't know what to
do, I just Google Michael Saylor and see

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what he has to say

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Oh yeah.

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And you, you interviewed him once, right?

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Uh, at some, at the Innsbruck thing.

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Wasn't, wasn't that where
you interviewed him?

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twice, actually.

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So Innsbruck,

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which was the, the biggest, the
biggest German speaking Bitcoin

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conference for 2022 and 2023.

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We had Michael, um, on, on,
uh, on a remote interview when

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I, I had the honor to talk to

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him.

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It was fun.

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that's great.

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Uh,

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it's great to talk to Michael.

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Uh, but of course, it's
great to talk to you too.

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You're a legend in the German
speaking Bitcoin world.

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And for, for those of our listeners
who aren't from that world, could

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you give them the TLDR on Niko
Giltsch and your journey from Goldbug

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Journalism to Epic Bitcoin Maximalism.

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Are you saying that there's
Bitcoin outside the German speaking

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Yeah, a few.

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They're scattered here and there,
but most of them are in the German

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speaking community, yes.

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so

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first of all, hi, thank you for having me.

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Um, it's, it's a pleasure.

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Uh, my name is Niko, Niko Jilch.

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I'm, uh, originally from, from
Vienna, Austria, where I'm

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sitting right now as well.

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Um, I am one of the very few
people who are, uh, Austrian

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by passport and economics.

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There isn't, there isn't many
anymore, um, but, but, you know,

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I read my Mises, I read my Hayek.

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Um, long story short,
I am, I'm a journalist.

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I've been, I've been covering
economics, monetary policy, all that

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stuff, um, for almost 20 years now.

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I've been with a mainstream paper, Die
Presse, which is actually very old,

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very liberal, um, newspaper liberal in
the classical liberal sense, whatever,

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you know, is, is, is, is still there.

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and I've, I've, I love working there
for Almost 10 years I got my chance

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to write about gold, write about
inflation, write about Bitcoin as well.

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I think I wrote one of the first
mainstream articles about Bitcoin in 2013.

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I'm sure it was total shit.

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But I can't find it anymore, actually.

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So I'm just claiming it.

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But I did, I did write that.

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So, um, and, and for the last two and a
half years, I've been building up my own

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little media company, which is basically
based around my, my podcast in German.

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It's called Das Bitcoin Bringt.

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It's the only German speaking
Bitcoin podcast that's, um, uh,

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most of my episodes are recorded on
site in my studio here in Vienna.

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Um, like I said, there is something
that's, that's maybe not as, as well

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known outside of Germany, Austria,
Switzerland, the, the, the Bitcoin

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scene here is absolutely enormous.

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I think that there are about 40.

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Bitcoin maximalist podcasts
out there, but I'm the only

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one who does it in the studio.

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I do everything on video as well.

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So I'm stronger on YouTube that I
am on, on, on the podcast anyway.

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and then there is also the, the,
the, the little known fact that,

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um, within Austria, which is a small
country, we have 9 million people here.

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Um, it's like a small version of
Germany, but we're more, we're

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more laid back and more fun.

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I'm actually the only, the only
Bitcoin podcast that I'm also.

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Uh, I'm, I'm claiming the title of a
most, uh, uh, important finance podcast

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period because there isn't any other one
that there is no finance channels here.

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We all watch the German stuff,
but the finance stuff that gets

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produced here is very, very small.

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So yeah, it's, it's going well and
I'm, I'm, I'm loving the work I've

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been, I'm very busy setting up
my corporate structure right now.

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I'm also stacking a little bit
of Bitcoin with my, with my

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company, which is a lot of fun.

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Um, and I'm trying to, to, to, to
not, what I'm actually trying to do

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right now is I'm trying to not lose
my focus now that the bull market is

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starting because I started in, February,
2022, which was at the end, like at

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the beginning of the bear market.

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Right.

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So, so now that everything is,
Everything feels, um, different, you

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know, there's BlackRock and the price
is going up and, and I'm not trying to

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not lose my focus, but I'm also, so I'm
trying to focus on my channel and my

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content because there's so much awesome
content in, in, in, in, in English.

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There's lots of awesome
content in German as well.

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I could do this in English, but
I decided to do it in German

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because there's just more need, I
think, for, for additional stuff.

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And also I'm trying to not, not
to forget that there is like that

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95 percent of the people out there
haven't even thought about Bitcoin

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for one second in their life.

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I think this is important
because I see this.

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I'm very happy to be on the
Freedom Footprint show right now

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here in the Austrian parliament.

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There is a symposium, a conference
that's about degrowth and communism.

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So, um, so this is what I see.

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Uh, but I, I am very hopeful, very
optimistic about the Bitcoin, um, about

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Bitcoin as a, as a tool for, for freedom.

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And that's, you know, in, in
the spirit of, of Jeff Booth,

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I'm trying to not concentrate on
the stuff that I can't change.

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I'm trying to concentrate on
the, on the positives, um,

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at the future.

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fantastic.

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And you mentioned the word liberal there
and how it's, um, and you had to point

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out that you mean in the classic sense.

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Because isn't it fascinating how that
world, how that word has completely

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shifted meaning to mean not liberal at

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all.

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Right now I'm, um, in preparation for
Prague where I will be talking about,

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um, so one, one of my, my pet peeves
and one of my hobbies is, you know,

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the Soviet Union and, and Eastern
Europe and, and all that stuff.

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I've been like reading and
working about this for, for years.

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Like starting in school, right.

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Maybe this is one of the
reasons why I'm sitting here.

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I wrote my, my, my thesis at the
end of, of, of school when I was 18.

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I wrote it about the red terror and the
Lenin and Stalin, um, which basically,

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you know, um, made me immune to the
whole communism thing during university.

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but yeah, I mean, One of the things
that, that, that changes when you

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go down the road to socialism and,
and, and, and communism is that,

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you know, words lose their meaning.

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You, you, you, you stop defining
words in a, in a coherent sense.

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And, and, and it, it, it all ends in a,
in a complete mess where you basically

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have to read the party newspaper every
day to know what words have what meaning.

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Um, yeah, liberal, liberalism
in my, in my opinion.

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Ice is the idea that every individual is
able to decide what they do with their

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life and in extension with their wealth.

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That's the Bitcoin thing.

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But of course, especially in
Western Europe, this has been.

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You know, it's disappearing
my, my, my thesis.

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So what I'm trying to do in Prague is,
um, I'm trying to find, or for my, for

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my keynote that I'm doing in Prague,
I'm trying to find, um, um, lessons

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from the revolutions of 1989 lessons
for the, for the Bitcoiners, because

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there are, there is some stuff in there.

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There was a, they were fighting against
an, an, um, you know, nonsensical,

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Disfunctioning, centrally planned,
monetary and economic system.

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And we are also fighting against
the nonsensical, failing, centrally

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planned, monetary and economic system.

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So there are some, some, um, um,
I'm not finished with my work yet.

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Um, but yeah, here in Western
Europe, um, here in Western

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Europe, it's, it's interesting.

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It's, uh, Liberal, especially in the U.

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S.

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right, liberal in the U.

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S.

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means basically you're a leftist.

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Um, while the German word liberal still
means that you think there is some, you

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know, something to the idea that the
individual can do whatever they want.

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Um, but then we have to put a classic
liberal on it because of course

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there's neoliberal and all that kind of

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stuff.

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Right.

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yeah, I mean, I love

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the idea.

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I, I say recently, but it's more
like a year ago that I read, uh,

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Michael Malice's The White Pill.

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Uh, have you heard about
that book or even read it?

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I'm sorry.

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No,

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It's about the Soviet Union and the East
Bloc and its history, and it's written

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as sort of with, you know, villains and
heroes and sort of Thatcher and Reagan

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being the heroes, and written in a, like,
in, joyful of a way of Uh, you can when

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you're writing about something that was
basically a giant prison for everyone for

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70 years, and, and how, how horrible the
Soviet Union really was, and, uh, a lot

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about how the West sort of, since mass
media and academia are filled with people

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who lean that way, and that was true
like 50 years ago too, that they wanted

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to, um, to hush down the whole thing.

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Whenever they heard bad news from the
Soviet Union, they, they wouldn't,

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they, they deliberately didn't believe
it because they wanted, they wanted

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the Soviet Union to, to be this, uh,
socialistic paradise, which it never was.

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But some people in the West still
viewed it that way because they

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had this dream, uh, since they
subscribed to the same ideology.

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have the same thing today, right?

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I mean,

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queers for Palestine, basically, right?

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It's, it's, it's, when they, if
they would go to Palestine, they

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get killed, but still, you know,
um, it's, it's the same story.

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It's, it's, and we, you, you still
have this today with, with other,

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uh, Um, ideologies, lesser so with
communism, but, um, maybe because we

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have more communism at home today.

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And I, and I say this, when I say this,
if I say this in German and people will

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just, you know, but there is like, there
is an EU, uh, election coming up in June.

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The communists are literally on the
ballot, like literally they're calling

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themselves communists and they're
all about, you know, affordable

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housing now, which of course.

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It's not affordable because of inflation.

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I don't have to tell you this,
but people do not understand this.

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And, and I think what's very important
about Bitcoin in this, in this context is

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that, um, we have something to strive for.

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We have something that we can see
that, that, that offers an alternative

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and offers a different world.

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When I was, um, in a gold bug,
basically, I still like gold.

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I'm not one of those Bitcoiners
who say now that we have something

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better, gold is going to go away.

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I don't think that's going to happen,
but that's not the point here.

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The thing with gold is that gold bugs have
always been very, you know, frustrated

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because the best thing they could ever
hope for is that the governments that

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they hated, um, would take the gold
and put, go back on a gold standard.

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And that basically put a huge, um,
price control on their own gold,

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which is, which is a gold standard.

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and with Bitcoin and I,
I honestly, I couldn't.

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For a long time, I didn't believe
in Bitcoin because for these

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reasons, I thought it would,
it was too good to be true.

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I thought it was, it was too far fetched.

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and I thought that we are going to go
back to a gold standard or not a gold

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standard, but something, something
connected to gold, let's just say.

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and this is the same when you look,
uh, when you look at the, at the

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history of Eastern Europe, but I'm
here in Vienna, so we have lots

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of influence from Eastern Europe.

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We are, we are in the
middle of Europe, right?

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We have all the, the Eastern bloc
countries, right, right around the corner.

225
00:11:43,554 --> 00:11:44,264
We have many people.

226
00:11:44,839 --> 00:11:49,389
Here from, from, from Eastern Europe and,
and when we have discussions on, on, on

227
00:11:49,619 --> 00:11:54,049
Bitcoin with communists, which sometimes
happens, um, I always can count on, on,

228
00:11:54,079 --> 00:11:57,339
on the brothers and sisters from, from
the East to shut up the communists.

229
00:11:57,949 --> 00:12:01,489
Um, and I hope that this goes on,
uh, but, uh, there's no guarantee.

230
00:12:02,010 --> 00:12:07,440
and the difference, I think, between,
um, between countries like, like, uh,

231
00:12:07,450 --> 00:12:12,510
uh, the Czech Republic, um, Slovakia,
Hungary, Poland, um, who have been

232
00:12:12,550 --> 00:12:17,860
countries at least, they knew, East,
East Germany is the perfect example.

233
00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:21,210
Um, they knew that they are,
that they are, um, that there is

234
00:12:21,230 --> 00:12:22,970
something, they knew what they wanted.

235
00:12:22,990 --> 00:12:24,300
They knew what they could strive for.

236
00:12:24,300 --> 00:12:24,580
Yes.

237
00:12:24,580 --> 00:12:26,940
In the beginning, there was lots of
lies about, about, you know, about,

238
00:12:26,940 --> 00:12:29,770
you know, about, Capitalism and the
fascists on the other side of the wall.

239
00:12:29,770 --> 00:12:34,650
But at some, you know, news came
through and, and, and, and, uh,

240
00:12:34,650 --> 00:12:37,180
with the years, everybody knew,
okay, what I want is to go.

241
00:12:37,210 --> 00:12:38,630
I want to be like the West.

242
00:12:38,630 --> 00:12:38,900
Right.

243
00:12:39,284 --> 00:12:42,104
and I think this is important that
we have something because with, with

244
00:12:42,124 --> 00:12:43,284
gold, we didn't have that with Bitcoin.

245
00:12:43,554 --> 00:12:43,934
We do.

246
00:12:44,324 --> 00:12:46,124
Um, and, and I think.

247
00:12:46,599 --> 00:12:51,399
Without being too harsh with our, with
our friends in Russia, I think that

248
00:12:51,399 --> 00:12:52,779
that's something that happened in Russia.

249
00:12:52,789 --> 00:12:57,069
Like people were so disillusioned and
they could never think of really joining

250
00:12:57,329 --> 00:13:01,899
the West in the same way as Poland
and the Czechs and whatever it did.

251
00:13:02,259 --> 00:13:06,159
Um, that, that, that they still
don't have this, this perspective

252
00:13:06,159 --> 00:13:07,539
today, to be quite honest.

253
00:13:08,252 --> 00:13:11,542
And so, yeah, Bitcoin can, can
help as a, like a lightning rod

254
00:13:11,542 --> 00:13:15,322
of freedom, by the way, the whole
story with Reagan and Thatcher being

255
00:13:15,332 --> 00:13:18,392
heroes is, let's just say it's,

256
00:13:18,392 --> 00:13:19,682
it's, it's murky.

257
00:13:19,962 --> 00:13:20,192
It's

258
00:13:20,412 --> 00:13:20,932
yeah, yeah.

259
00:13:20,962 --> 00:13:22,152
Well, they're not

260
00:13:22,822 --> 00:13:27,412
literally painted as heroes, but they,
they have a Heroic function in the story,

261
00:13:27,412 --> 00:13:32,662
in the, um, in the end game of the,
uh, the fall of the, the Soviet Empire.

262
00:13:33,362 --> 00:13:39,165
Uh, my, my, uh, another German friend
of ours, uh, Volker told us about, uh,

263
00:13:39,195 --> 00:13:44,782
or told me rather about, when East and
West Germany, United and how, how that's

264
00:13:45,082 --> 00:13:50,664
like, people always portray that as
like the, the east, dropping all the

265
00:13:50,664 --> 00:13:53,224
communism and becoming westernized.

266
00:13:53,254 --> 00:13:59,004
But what they leave out is the opposite
effect and how East Germans came to West

267
00:13:59,034 --> 00:14:04,054
Germany and asked people questions like,
oh, you have to pay for child care?

268
00:14:04,054 --> 00:14:06,724
We never had to pay for
child care in East Germany.

269
00:14:07,104 --> 00:14:08,624
Oh, you have to pay for health care?

270
00:14:08,854 --> 00:14:10,654
We never had to pay for health care.

271
00:14:10,974 --> 00:14:17,139
And how that influenced German
politics after after 89, uh, and

272
00:14:17,139 --> 00:14:22,825
how, how West Germany became more,
socialistic because of, of these,

273
00:14:22,835 --> 00:14:24,585
the influx of these ideas.

274
00:14:24,955 --> 00:14:26,955
It's, it's not only that,
it's not only that, it's

275
00:14:26,955 --> 00:14:30,705
also that, that after the fall
of the wall, West Germany did

276
00:14:30,705 --> 00:14:34,815
not have to show the East that
capitalism works better anymore.

277
00:14:35,515 --> 00:14:39,905
That's the whole idea of, you know,
the end of history, um, this whole, we

278
00:14:39,905 --> 00:14:44,525
won, it's over, you know, um, and now
we, we know we, we didn't win, that's

279
00:14:44,525 --> 00:14:50,095
why I, I, I absolutely love going to
Eastern Europe because people there still

280
00:14:50,155 --> 00:14:55,175
understand, um, that, that they, they
can never go back to this, to the system.

281
00:14:55,185 --> 00:14:57,595
They can never, they, they have seen it.

282
00:14:58,050 --> 00:15:01,310
And this is why it's so ridiculous
when you have like a DeGroff conference

283
00:15:01,310 --> 00:15:04,680
here in the Austrian parliament or
you have, um, literal communists

284
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,670
on the ballot and people, you know,
marching the streets talking about,

285
00:15:07,710 --> 00:15:11,280
about communism and socialism being
the solution, um, because that's only

286
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:12,920
happening in, in, in Western Europe.

287
00:15:12,950 --> 00:15:14,660
There was a, there was an amazing story.

288
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:15,760
It's a couple of years ago.

289
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,640
Um, when, when the Greta Thunberg movement
was still going strong, they had a huge,

290
00:15:20,670 --> 00:15:23,060
um, a conference of, of, of youths.

291
00:15:23,835 --> 00:15:24,835
I think it was in Germany.

292
00:15:24,835 --> 00:15:26,805
I'm not sure, but I think it
was in Germany because it was,

293
00:15:26,845 --> 00:15:28,376
it was close to the public.

294
00:15:28,606 --> 00:15:32,156
But there was one reporter from the
German Bild Zeitung, the huge tabloid

295
00:15:32,156 --> 00:15:34,966
in Germany, um, who was there incognito.

296
00:15:35,226 --> 00:15:39,086
And she wrote a report and she said,
it's, it was funny because, because, um,

297
00:15:39,096 --> 00:15:43,306
all the, the, the young people from West
Germany, like France and Germans and

298
00:15:43,316 --> 00:15:46,531
whatever, They went on stage and they
said, we need to do this and we need to

299
00:15:46,531 --> 00:15:48,601
do that in order to stop climate change.

300
00:15:48,601 --> 00:15:52,151
And then the East, the East German,
um, uh, people at the East, the

301
00:15:52,151 --> 00:15:55,871
East Europeans, they said, wait
a minute, it sounds a lot like

302
00:15:55,901 --> 00:15:57,361
socialism you're talking about.

303
00:15:57,571 --> 00:15:57,941
Right.

304
00:15:58,241 --> 00:16:02,711
Um, and then it was all a big fight,
you know, uh, because, because

305
00:16:02,721 --> 00:16:04,311
this is literally a red line.

306
00:16:04,311 --> 00:16:05,251
You should never cross it.

307
00:16:05,251 --> 00:16:07,571
Of course we are very
close to crossing it.

308
00:16:07,571 --> 00:16:12,971
I mean, we have actually crossed it
in, um, Helmut Kohl, the chancellor,

309
00:16:12,971 --> 00:16:17,751
who was a German chancellor when the
wall fell, he said that um, after,

310
00:16:17,831 --> 00:16:22,291
you know, when the state's part of
the economy is more than 50 percent,

311
00:16:22,541 --> 00:16:24,491
that's where he draws the line.

312
00:16:24,491 --> 00:16:26,441
That's where it's socialism.

313
00:16:26,451 --> 00:16:28,161
Now it's far more than that.

314
00:16:28,771 --> 00:16:29,741
Um, yeah, it's very sad.

315
00:16:29,741 --> 00:16:30,351
It's very sad.

316
00:16:30,351 --> 00:16:34,111
And I think that's, I've actually
thought for a long time, even before

317
00:16:34,351 --> 00:16:38,311
Bitcoin, I thought that unfortunately
we still have to go through the

318
00:16:38,321 --> 00:16:43,558
collapse of our version of socialism
before we can, before we can have, a

319
00:16:43,558 --> 00:16:49,628
fresh, uh, A fresh look at, at, at, at
capitalist, uh, at market economy ideas.

320
00:16:49,818 --> 00:16:54,328
And when you look at, at, um,
at Argentina, that's exactly

321
00:16:54,328 --> 00:16:55,238
what's happening, right?

322
00:16:55,318 --> 00:16:59,838
Um, so I think that looking at Argentina
is, is, is, is a bit of looking into

323
00:16:59,838 --> 00:17:00,268
future.

324
00:17:00,693 --> 00:17:01,123
Yeah.

325
00:17:01,173 --> 00:17:02,353
Uh, I totally

326
00:17:02,363 --> 00:17:02,753
agree.

327
00:17:02,753 --> 00:17:07,323
And, um, as you say in the East,
it's much more common for people to

328
00:17:07,323 --> 00:17:11,203
understand that they shouldn't obey
that the road to freedom doesn't go,

329
00:17:11,683 --> 00:17:14,553
never goes through more obedience.

330
00:17:14,883 --> 00:17:19,453
So, so they, the government mandates
stuff there too, but they just don't.

331
00:17:20,323 --> 00:17:26,553
Give a shit the way everyone here does
and, and, um, also, uh, it makes me

332
00:17:26,563 --> 00:17:30,133
think of a Reagan quote, actually,
about that every generation, freedom

333
00:17:30,133 --> 00:17:32,153
is never to be taken for granted.

334
00:17:32,163 --> 00:17:34,103
It's for every generation to fight for.

335
00:17:34,103 --> 00:17:38,973
It's, I'm paraphrasing now, uh, by the
way, I saw a communist party trying

336
00:17:38,973 --> 00:17:44,983
to, uh, gain political ground in
Canada, which, which I find, uh, the,

337
00:17:44,983 --> 00:17:47,043
uh, Uh, where, where Luke was born.

338
00:17:47,043 --> 00:17:50,953
And I find that so hilarious
because like, dude, you're

339
00:17:50,953 --> 00:17:53,043
already living in a commie utopia.

340
00:17:53,063 --> 00:17:56,816
Like it's all Canada's been
communist for a long time.

341
00:17:56,816 --> 00:17:57,016
Right.

342
00:17:57,016 --> 00:17:59,336
That for at least a couple
of years now, I mean,

343
00:17:59,346 --> 00:18:00,266
pure communist.

344
00:18:01,373 --> 00:18:02,293
That, that's why I'm so

345
00:18:02,293 --> 00:18:07,033
thankful for, uh, and that's why it's
important to differentiate between

346
00:18:07,053 --> 00:18:09,433
when you look at the German speaking
world, and it's very important.

347
00:18:09,483 --> 00:18:10,843
It's a huge market.

348
00:18:10,843 --> 00:18:14,180
It's a huge, um, uh,
Bitcoin contingent as well.

349
00:18:14,220 --> 00:18:17,030
Um, and there's many reasons
why Bitcoin is huge in Germany.

350
00:18:17,070 --> 00:18:19,880
There are still people
there who want to live free.

351
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,060
There are still people there who want
to, you know, build quality products.

352
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,485
You know, I always say that if you're,
if If you let the Germans, if you cut

353
00:18:26,485 --> 00:18:31,315
the taxes by 70 percent and if you,
if you just erase 90 percent of the

354
00:18:31,325 --> 00:18:35,645
stupid regulations, the Germans will be,
you know, at least the second biggest

355
00:18:35,745 --> 00:18:37,665
economy within like two weeks again.

356
00:18:38,165 --> 00:18:38,485
Right.

357
00:18:38,855 --> 00:18:42,035
Um, you know, just tell them, you know,
they can build the cars, they can be,

358
00:18:42,115 --> 00:18:46,455
they can go as fast as they want and,
and, and, and they don't care about the,

359
00:18:46,465 --> 00:18:49,935
the, any, any regulations, but, but.

360
00:18:49,935 --> 00:18:50,179
Thanks.

361
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:52,880
When you look at the mentality,
this is quite important.

362
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:58,630
Um, the Swiss are, you know,
way, have a way better system

363
00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:59,680
of governing the Northern EU.

364
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,660
They have a direct democracy.

365
00:19:01,660 --> 00:19:04,090
When you go to Switzerland, you
really have the feeling that people

366
00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:08,440
there still have this idea, at least
this, this, they want to contribute.

367
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,640
And they also want to, to, um,
have their say and their, their,

368
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:13,850
their voice is heard, right?

369
00:19:13,850 --> 00:19:14,254
And you have, you know.

370
00:19:14,555 --> 00:19:19,075
You have techs, techs competition
between the cantons, the states,

371
00:19:19,675 --> 00:19:20,785
Germany is a lot different.

372
00:19:20,785 --> 00:19:25,415
Germany is very, um, you know, there's
a rule you have to obey to the rule.

373
00:19:25,485 --> 00:19:26,585
Everybody obeys to the rule.

374
00:19:26,785 --> 00:19:27,235
Why?

375
00:19:27,405 --> 00:19:27,905
Because there's

376
00:19:27,905 --> 00:19:28,805
a rule, right?

377
00:19:28,805 --> 00:19:29,465
That's Germany.

378
00:19:29,860 --> 00:19:30,740
I, I saw that

379
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,930
in, in Munich, uh, like, uh,
I was crossing the street

380
00:19:34,940 --> 00:19:36,140
and everybody stood still.

381
00:19:36,140 --> 00:19:38,010
I'm like, what the fuck is
wrong with these people?

382
00:19:38,060 --> 00:19:39,130
And there's a red light.

383
00:19:39,470 --> 00:19:40,340
There's no cars.

384
00:19:40,915 --> 00:19:42,815
But everyone just didn't cross the

385
00:19:42,815 --> 00:19:43,215
street.

386
00:19:43,305 --> 00:19:45,235
Like, what's wrong with you guys?

387
00:19:45,675 --> 00:19:46,665
So that's, so that's,

388
00:19:46,915 --> 00:19:48,215
that's, that's Germany.

389
00:19:48,215 --> 00:19:49,275
And also you have to be fair.

390
00:19:49,275 --> 00:19:53,505
Germany is, is, is consists
of like 150 states.

391
00:19:54,218 --> 00:19:55,748
they are also very different.

392
00:19:55,988 --> 00:20:01,068
Yeah, it sounds like a South, Southern
Germany thing to be that obedient.

393
00:20:01,528 --> 00:20:04,218
it's as a whole, the
Germans, they are like that.

394
00:20:04,248 --> 00:20:04,528
Right.

395
00:20:04,688 --> 00:20:09,028
Um, and, and, and I, I love them,
but, but they are like that.

396
00:20:09,028 --> 00:20:12,558
And then here in Austria, it's,
it's, it's different again, right?

397
00:20:12,588 --> 00:20:15,998
We are more like, um, like
the Eastern Europeans, we,

398
00:20:16,038 --> 00:20:17,238
there's a, like, there's a rule.

399
00:20:18,263 --> 00:20:19,293
It's funny that you have a rule.

400
00:20:19,823 --> 00:20:20,393
Interesting.

401
00:20:20,393 --> 00:20:21,173
Thank you for the rule.

402
00:20:21,213 --> 00:20:22,943
It's like, it's more like guidelines.

403
00:20:23,486 --> 00:20:26,956
which is of course it's, it's
when the rules are good, right?

404
00:20:27,586 --> 00:20:31,836
Like, like when the rules make sense,
then of course a country like Germany

405
00:20:31,876 --> 00:20:34,096
is extremely efficient at what they do.

406
00:20:34,476 --> 00:20:38,556
When the rules are stupid, then they
are extremely efficient at enforcing

407
00:20:38,556 --> 00:20:40,826
stupid rules, which is, which is a

408
00:20:40,826 --> 00:20:42,206
horrible situation to be in.

409
00:20:42,481 --> 00:20:43,881
Yeah, I'm trying to think

410
00:20:43,881 --> 00:20:49,541
of a historical example of Germany being
efficient and horrible at the same time.

411
00:20:49,871 --> 00:20:50,491
Hmm.

412
00:20:50,821 --> 00:20:51,151
Yeah.

413
00:20:51,845 --> 00:20:53,325
Hey, maybe, uh, maybe from one thing

414
00:20:53,325 --> 00:20:56,835
to another off of that brilliant,
uh, brilliant segway or

415
00:20:56,835 --> 00:20:58,015
attempted segway by Knut there.

416
00:20:59,641 --> 00:21:03,651
Niko, so we were, we last saw each other
specifically in the Madeira airport.

417
00:21:03,661 --> 00:21:07,721
The, the actual moment that,
uh, that the new all time high

418
00:21:07,721 --> 00:21:09,971
was broken in the, in, in Euro.

419
00:21:10,896 --> 00:21:13,606
Not the, not the, for the
rest of the world, the U.

420
00:21:13,606 --> 00:21:13,766
S.

421
00:21:13,766 --> 00:21:18,076
dollar all time high was considered more
important generally, and we, we all know

422
00:21:18,126 --> 00:21:21,486
as well that the all time high hasn't
actually been broken in purchasing power

423
00:21:21,486 --> 00:21:26,306
terms, but we'll leave that aside, but
everything since then has sort of been

424
00:21:26,306 --> 00:21:32,426
this kind of flat waiting, the having
sort of happened, but nothing has really

425
00:21:32,446 --> 00:21:37,391
happened, uh, uh, At the same time,
though, there's all this building going

426
00:21:37,391 --> 00:21:43,831
on and, uh, and kind of a, uh, mixed
optimism, pessimism, something like that.

427
00:21:44,101 --> 00:21:50,671
So what's your feeling about the state
of Bitcoin right now and maybe short

428
00:21:50,671 --> 00:21:52,131
term outlook on how things look?

429
00:21:53,015 --> 00:21:54,105
I think it's important what you

430
00:21:54,105 --> 00:21:56,125
said about the purchasing power.

431
00:21:56,275 --> 00:21:59,805
Um, when you look at Bitcoin
price in, in gold, we haven't

432
00:22:00,415 --> 00:22:01,675
reached an all time high yet.

433
00:22:02,185 --> 00:22:07,325
Um, and it really, honestly, that
time, It shocked me a little because

434
00:22:07,325 --> 00:22:08,725
it wasn't just about Bitcoin.

435
00:22:08,725 --> 00:22:13,055
It was, we had ultimizing the, in the
stock markets, we had ultimizing gold and

436
00:22:13,545 --> 00:22:18,225
ultimizing Bitcoins all at the same time,
which for me, it just means one thing that

437
00:22:18,225 --> 00:22:20,125
the basement is going stronger than ever.

438
00:22:20,615 --> 00:22:25,465
Um, and that really, really, you
know, this combined with about

439
00:22:25,465 --> 00:22:29,415
two hours of Michael Saylor really
gets you, gets you thinking.

440
00:22:29,945 --> 00:22:38,175
Um, and, and, and, I really like for me,
this has been a process of about almost

441
00:22:38,175 --> 00:22:40,505
15 years, not even starting with Bitcoin.

442
00:22:40,975 --> 00:22:44,805
And I have arrived at a point
where I don't consider my paper

443
00:22:44,805 --> 00:22:47,815
money to be worth a lot anymore.

444
00:22:48,075 --> 00:22:50,805
You know, I still hold too much
of it and I get nervous all the

445
00:22:50,815 --> 00:22:52,940
time, but you know, it's a process.

446
00:22:53,456 --> 00:22:55,796
and I think that this is the most
important trend right now when you

447
00:22:55,796 --> 00:23:01,976
look at, when you look at, um, we've,
I, I'm talking about Argentina so much

448
00:23:01,976 --> 00:23:06,166
because in 2008, I actually lived in
Argentina and I, and I saw, um, the

449
00:23:06,166 --> 00:23:10,986
beginning of the inflation that just
now, uh, escalated 10 years later,

450
00:23:11,156 --> 00:23:12,566
even more than 10 years later, right?

451
00:23:12,566 --> 00:23:16,996
When I, when I was there, I could buy,
I could buy four pesos with one euro.

452
00:23:17,326 --> 00:23:21,826
Now it's, I don't know, it's, I hundreds,
I, I don't even know how much it is, but

453
00:23:21,831 --> 00:23:26,776
it's, it's, it's enormous and still then
efficient was super high there, you know?

454
00:23:26,806 --> 00:23:30,226
Um, and when you would, would order
pizza, you would get a new menu every two

455
00:23:30,226 --> 00:23:32,146
weeks with, with, with the prices rising.

456
00:23:32,146 --> 00:23:35,706
And this is something that I can
see now here in, in, in the heart of

457
00:23:35,711 --> 00:23:37,476
Europe and in Vienna and in Germany.

458
00:23:38,146 --> 00:23:42,916
Um, and it's, it's really, it's really
something that, that I worry about a lot.

459
00:23:42,916 --> 00:23:46,366
So when you ask me about Bitcoin,
honestly, this is the, this

460
00:23:46,366 --> 00:23:47,747
is, this is what Bitcoin is.

461
00:23:48,616 --> 00:23:55,206
Been, um, built for this is, this is
literally, I mean, I, I, I have to

462
00:23:55,326 --> 00:23:59,056
like, that's why I'm so happy to talk
to you guys because, because I really

463
00:23:59,061 --> 00:24:02,896
have to moderate myself when I'm, you
know, I, I get interviewed and on,

464
00:24:02,901 --> 00:24:06,316
on, on television and, and stuff like
that, and I have to, like, they ask

465
00:24:06,321 --> 00:24:07,726
me like, to, what are I gonna do now?

466
00:24:07,726 --> 00:24:12,346
And I'm like, and my head is like, bit,
bit, bit, bit quiet, but you can't be, you

467
00:24:12,346 --> 00:24:14,956
know, you, you, you can't go this fast.

468
00:24:14,956 --> 00:24:18,141
You have to be, you have to be, you
have to know your audience, right?

469
00:24:18,886 --> 00:24:20,456
And, and,

470
00:24:20,736 --> 00:24:22,066
worry about our audience.

471
00:24:22,106 --> 00:24:24,836
You can go Bitcoin, Bitcoin,
Bitcoin as much as you like here.

472
00:24:25,456 --> 00:24:29,716
um, and, and it has, it has
been, you know, built for this.

473
00:24:29,716 --> 00:24:33,006
And now when you ask me about the
state of Bitcoin, um, you know, I

474
00:24:33,006 --> 00:24:39,206
might, I, there is, this is not just
Michael, um, I do have a series going

475
00:24:39,206 --> 00:24:44,456
on with, with, with a guy called Peter
Kotosek, who is an Austrian, um, um,

476
00:24:44,596 --> 00:24:46,776
entrepreneur, and he's also an artist.

477
00:24:47,336 --> 00:24:50,586
Uh, the thing is he's 84 years old.

478
00:24:51,456 --> 00:24:53,806
And he has been a Bitcoiner since 2012.

479
00:24:54,756 --> 00:24:58,886
He made all his money as an entrepreneur,
um, in the, in the, in the boom

480
00:24:58,926 --> 00:25:02,096
phases of the, of the computer,
not the internet, the computer.

481
00:25:02,096 --> 00:25:05,536
So he's the guy who built basically with
his company, he built all the computers

482
00:25:05,536 --> 00:25:08,296
in the governments and in the banks
here that are still running basically.

483
00:25:08,786 --> 00:25:13,236
So running on old IBM computers
with like two, two, two, uh,

484
00:25:13,246 --> 00:25:15,116
megabytes of, of, of storage.

485
00:25:15,676 --> 00:25:18,106
The whole financial system is
basically based on that stuff.

486
00:25:18,481 --> 00:25:18,811
Right.

487
00:25:18,811 --> 00:25:20,151
The Fiat financial

488
00:25:20,241 --> 00:25:22,561
So he's trying to redeem
himself, in other words.

489
00:25:22,771 --> 00:25:26,461
No, I mean, and he has this, and
he is so interesting and I'm, I've

490
00:25:26,461 --> 00:25:31,740
been doing, I think about, um, 12,
like I've been doing, I've been

491
00:25:31,741 --> 00:25:34,001
18, 18 episodes with him already.

492
00:25:34,641 --> 00:25:40,101
Um, so basically dumping his brain and
he, he has this perception of Bitcoin as

493
00:25:40,281 --> 00:25:42,261
capital just like Michael Saylor does.

494
00:25:43,071 --> 00:25:44,831
And I think this is extremely important.

495
00:25:44,881 --> 00:25:48,341
Um, I think that this is the
next, the next step in a, in

496
00:25:48,341 --> 00:25:50,241
a, in a very, very broad sense.

497
00:25:50,731 --> 00:25:55,501
I think we are basically for the next
10 years, we're going to still be in the

498
00:25:56,141 --> 00:26:02,441
store of value phase by meaning that we
just first, we do have to find a price.

499
00:26:03,151 --> 00:26:03,471
Right.

500
00:26:03,991 --> 00:26:07,091
I get, I get asked, I did two interviews.

501
00:26:07,091 --> 00:26:13,081
One called me up, said there is a
German, um, um, uh, sporting goods brand.

502
00:26:13,111 --> 00:26:14,681
They want to sell their stuff for Bitcoin.

503
00:26:14,681 --> 00:26:18,821
And then the other guy is like,
should we put Bitcoin into hotels

504
00:26:19,251 --> 00:26:20,991
and use it as a currency in hotels?

505
00:26:21,051 --> 00:26:24,921
And I'm like, yeah, all these ideas
are possible, but I still like, like,

506
00:26:24,951 --> 00:26:28,216
I, I still don't believe that this
is going to be the next 10 years.

507
00:26:28,246 --> 00:26:31,036
I don't think that, because the
question always comes up, why should

508
00:26:31,036 --> 00:26:34,856
people pay in Bitcoin if they believe
that it goes up forever, basically.

509
00:26:35,106 --> 00:26:35,886
And this is true.

510
00:26:36,456 --> 00:26:40,916
Um, so I do pay Bitcoin because
I like to do that, but, um,

511
00:26:40,996 --> 00:26:42,306
it's, it's more like a hobby.

512
00:26:42,836 --> 00:26:48,106
Um, and I, I don't want to parrot
Michael Saylor, but, but I think what

513
00:26:48,116 --> 00:26:52,096
he's saying is basically true that
we have entered the gold rush phase,

514
00:26:52,436 --> 00:26:54,246
the Bitcoin rush phase of Bitcoin.

515
00:26:54,626 --> 00:26:58,256
Um, and, and it's very important for us
to, that's why I said in the beginning,

516
00:26:58,266 --> 00:27:03,906
it's very, for me, it's almost when
you go outside 90, 99 percent of

517
00:27:03,906 --> 00:27:05,721
people, 99 I haven't seen it yet.

518
00:27:05,861 --> 00:27:09,491
So we think it's, it's all so
obvious and it is obvious once you

519
00:27:09,491 --> 00:27:14,151
have, you know, um, you know, put
your mind to it, but we're still so

520
00:27:14,381 --> 00:27:16,021
early, which is also a meme, right?

521
00:27:16,101 --> 00:27:20,511
Um, but we are early in this, in this
phase, but we are now, and I think

522
00:27:20,511 --> 00:27:24,191
this is important and this is also
the reason why we saw the price go up.

523
00:27:24,261 --> 00:27:27,011
Um, we have officially entered.

524
00:27:27,831 --> 00:27:30,751
Let's just say the official
age of Bitcoin, right?

525
00:27:30,841 --> 00:27:36,771
It's now an official asset class
recognized by the most important capital

526
00:27:36,781 --> 00:27:39,001
markets and regulators in the world.

527
00:27:40,131 --> 00:27:40,831
That's new.

528
00:27:41,701 --> 00:27:45,521
When I started doing my podcast, there was
still a risk that this would never happen.

529
00:27:46,191 --> 00:27:51,361
And now it happened, but it also teaches
you that just because that just happened,

530
00:27:51,361 --> 00:27:54,661
it's not like everybody out there will,
you know, switch on their heads and

531
00:27:54,661 --> 00:27:55,831
say, ah, I should buy some Bitcoin.

532
00:27:56,121 --> 00:27:57,051
And now it's real.

533
00:27:57,061 --> 00:27:57,161
You

534
00:27:57,161 --> 00:27:58,461
know, it just, it takes time.

535
00:27:59,416 --> 00:28:00,586
Yeah, absolutely.

536
00:28:01,616 --> 00:28:06,036
You mentioned store of value there, and
I have a slightly nerdy question to ask

537
00:28:06,036 --> 00:28:10,326
you as a fellow Austrian economics nerd.

538
00:28:10,716 --> 00:28:15,736
Because I had this thought about store
of value and what's wrong with the term.

539
00:28:15,736 --> 00:28:19,766
Because the term rubs me the wrong
way, since value is subjective, right?

540
00:28:19,896 --> 00:28:21,346
So you can't store value.

541
00:28:21,526 --> 00:28:23,006
It's inherently subjective.

542
00:28:23,241 --> 00:28:24,321
Wrong in a sense.

543
00:28:24,801 --> 00:28:27,201
Uh, so here we are out there.

544
00:28:27,241 --> 00:28:33,681
Uh, and Mises in human action describes
money as a first and foremost, a medium

545
00:28:33,681 --> 00:28:38,811
of exchange with sort of like, uh,
so if you're a Mises fan, you might

546
00:28:40,161 --> 00:28:45,631
Misinterpret Bitcoin and hop onto the
Bitcoin cash crap or like, so, so the

547
00:28:45,631 --> 00:28:52,338
way I like to sort of debunk that to
myself is describing, it's, it's just

548
00:28:52,338 --> 00:28:54,878
the insight that, uh, medium exchange.

549
00:28:55,373 --> 00:28:58,473
Uh, can be through four
dimensions and not only three.

550
00:28:58,993 --> 00:29:03,233
So store of value is actually just
medium of exchange through time.

551
00:29:04,223 --> 00:29:09,323
Uh, and you are trading, saving is
just the act of trading of exchanging

552
00:29:09,323 --> 00:29:11,193
something with your future self.

553
00:29:12,213 --> 00:29:16,223
So you're exchanging stuff with
what is practically another person.

554
00:29:16,223 --> 00:29:20,823
If you wait 15 years, all the cells
in your body have been renewed and

555
00:29:20,823 --> 00:29:24,573
you're, you're another person and
that's the person you're trading with.

556
00:29:24,953 --> 00:29:28,753
So store of value is an
inferior term to medium of

557
00:29:28,753 --> 00:29:30,153
exchange over time in my head.

558
00:29:30,353 --> 00:29:30,953
What do you think?

559
00:29:33,850 --> 00:29:39,540
So, so I, I always, as a,
as a media person, I always

560
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,723
think about can we use this?

561
00:29:42,863 --> 00:29:44,353
Will people understand it?

562
00:29:44,503 --> 00:29:48,723
And then the question that you
had had, I think that it's, it's

563
00:29:48,723 --> 00:29:50,053
a very interesting perspective.

564
00:29:50,193 --> 00:29:51,293
Let's just put it this way.

565
00:29:51,663 --> 00:29:56,243
I think if I, if I would have to sit in a,
in a, in a talk show and explain to people

566
00:29:56,243 --> 00:29:57,963
that, no, no, it's not a store failure.

567
00:29:57,963 --> 00:29:59,673
It's a medium of exchange over time.

568
00:29:59,923 --> 00:30:02,783
I'm exchanging, um, with my future self.

569
00:30:03,183 --> 00:30:04,083
Don't you get it?

570
00:30:04,463 --> 00:30:06,973
Um, then it's, it's, it's
going to be very hard.

571
00:30:07,453 --> 00:30:09,213
On the other hand, people understand that.

572
00:30:09,433 --> 00:30:10,383
Why do they save?

573
00:30:10,738 --> 00:30:10,988
right?

574
00:30:10,988 --> 00:30:12,048
Maybe store of value.

575
00:30:12,128 --> 00:30:12,698
You're right.

576
00:30:12,858 --> 00:30:18,158
Probably store of value might be, might
be the wrong term, but saving, I think

577
00:30:18,158 --> 00:30:20,208
people do get saving and saving does not.

578
00:30:21,205 --> 00:30:22,775
use the word value, right?

579
00:30:23,265 --> 00:30:27,635
Um, I think from a Misesian perspective,
when you look at the regression theorem,

580
00:30:27,715 --> 00:30:32,995
he did say that it needs to find,
um, um, a value at some point, right?

581
00:30:32,995 --> 00:30:35,595
That would be the idea
of, um, the pizza day.

582
00:30:36,435 --> 00:30:36,935
Yes,

583
00:30:37,325 --> 00:30:37,715
and

584
00:30:37,785 --> 00:30:39,465
it proves the regression theorem.

585
00:30:39,465 --> 00:30:42,115
It doesn't, doesn't like this discarded.

586
00:30:42,125 --> 00:30:42,775
It proves it.

587
00:30:43,195 --> 00:30:44,265
exactly, and, and it's like,

588
00:30:44,295 --> 00:30:47,045
and the funny thing about the pizza
day, it's, it's, it's that we, we

589
00:30:47,055 --> 00:30:51,035
celebrate the pizza day, but 90
percent of the people don't know the

590
00:30:51,035 --> 00:30:52,815
regressive theorem, but we still do it.

591
00:30:53,475 --> 00:30:56,195
Actually, by the way, did you know
that the first, that the first

592
00:30:56,205 --> 00:30:59,935
transaction that has ever taken
place on the internet proper?

593
00:31:00,675 --> 00:31:02,575
was also for ordering a pizza.

594
00:31:03,045 --> 00:31:03,635
Oh, really?

595
00:31:05,015 --> 00:31:09,095
So the human race has an obsession
with ordering pizza online.

596
00:31:09,705 --> 00:31:10,385
Yeah, yeah.

597
00:31:10,445 --> 00:31:11,465
And pineapple top.

598
00:31:11,983 --> 00:31:14,220
Niko, do you want a
Mises regression theorem?

599
00:31:14,220 --> 00:31:17,760
We covered this with Kansa as well,
but for anyone who didn't see that one.

600
00:31:18,025 --> 00:31:19,575
So basically, basically,

601
00:31:19,575 --> 00:31:22,975
and I hope that I'm doing this justice.

602
00:31:23,175 --> 00:31:27,495
The idea is that you can only use
something as a medium of exchange or

603
00:31:27,495 --> 00:31:30,190
as money if it had value yesterday.

604
00:31:30,750 --> 00:31:34,690
So you have to find something that you,
that you can, that you can reference to.

605
00:31:34,990 --> 00:31:39,450
And this is something that has been,
um, has been discussed a lot in Bitcoin

606
00:31:39,450 --> 00:31:43,900
circles, um, because it's not, so
basically when you look at a traditional

607
00:31:43,930 --> 00:31:46,060
currency, it all starts with gold.

608
00:31:46,725 --> 00:31:48,115
And why does it start with gold?

609
00:31:48,115 --> 00:31:52,785
Because at some point, you know, gold was,
was valued for its non monetary purpose,

610
00:31:52,835 --> 00:31:54,895
but it was store of value in that gold.

611
00:31:54,895 --> 00:31:59,045
And at some point you've figured out that
we can exchange the gold and then, and

612
00:31:59,045 --> 00:32:03,475
then you can, you can, you can regress
the value of, of, of fiat currency.

613
00:32:03,515 --> 00:32:05,495
You can still regress it back to gold.

614
00:32:05,655 --> 00:32:08,205
And, and that also applies to Bitcoin.

615
00:32:08,205 --> 00:32:12,325
If you can exchange it for that fiat
currency or gold, then the value

616
00:32:12,325 --> 00:32:16,135
basically You know, transacted in the,
in the, in the regression theorem.

617
00:32:16,555 --> 00:32:18,175
Um, I hope this

618
00:32:18,225 --> 00:32:18,745
did it justice.

619
00:32:18,885 --> 00:32:19,015
I

620
00:32:19,075 --> 00:32:20,825
I would put it slightly differently

621
00:32:21,215 --> 00:32:26,235
and say that there has to be,
logically, has to be a first point

622
00:32:26,655 --> 00:32:28,775
where the thing was used as money.

623
00:32:29,176 --> 00:32:31,606
Where the thing was used
as a medium of exchange.

624
00:32:31,966 --> 00:32:35,836
There has to be, someone would
have had to want the thing from

625
00:32:35,836 --> 00:32:39,546
the other guy and accepted it as a
medium of exchange at some point.

626
00:32:39,816 --> 00:32:44,791
If you just Do that, had to have
value yesterday, if you backtrack

627
00:32:44,791 --> 00:32:45,811
back to the starting point.

628
00:32:46,101 --> 00:32:50,341
And the thing about Pizzaday is that
for the first time in human history,

629
00:32:50,341 --> 00:32:55,481
we have an actual first transaction
that we can point to that proves Mises

630
00:32:55,511 --> 00:32:57,401
Regression Theorem, that there was a

631
00:32:57,411 --> 00:32:59,361
first use case.

632
00:32:59,786 --> 00:33:02,536
and you have to, and in order
to do that, you have to,

633
00:33:02,576 --> 00:33:07,306
you have to, you know, put some
value, somebody needs to put

634
00:33:07,306 --> 00:33:08,566
some value on that thing, right.

635
00:33:08,566 --> 00:33:12,326
In order to, to exchange it, even if
you, if you do it for a joke, even if

636
00:33:12,326 --> 00:33:13,796
you do it for a joke for pizza, right.

637
00:33:13,836 --> 00:33:17,846
If you, and, and what you said,
Knut, I want to go back there because

638
00:33:17,986 --> 00:33:21,106
it's important because it made
me extremely bullish on Bitcoin.

639
00:33:22,306 --> 00:33:27,256
Which is not news, but the idea of
being able to plan into the future with

640
00:33:28,386 --> 00:33:30,246
at least certainty on the money side.

641
00:33:30,286 --> 00:33:31,176
You never have the certainty.

642
00:33:31,186 --> 00:33:34,636
You know, I don't have the certainty
that I can, I'm alive in 15 years.

643
00:33:35,261 --> 00:33:39,251
Um, but, but I, today I don't have
the certainty that I'm alive and

644
00:33:39,251 --> 00:33:41,781
I also don't have the certainty
that the money will be there.

645
00:33:42,441 --> 00:33:46,541
And, and I think this is what
makes Bitcoin so powerful because,

646
00:33:46,761 --> 00:33:51,619
because people don't understand that
they don't have the certainty yet.

647
00:33:52,590 --> 00:33:55,195
So we grow up thinking
we have the certainty.

648
00:33:55,605 --> 00:33:58,915
We grew up thinking when you save the
money it will be there in the future.

649
00:33:59,955 --> 00:34:03,835
And once you've been living through
failing fiat currency regimes,

650
00:34:04,305 --> 00:34:05,645
you know that this is a lie.

651
00:34:06,275 --> 00:34:09,275
People in Argentina know that this is a
lie, people in Turkey know that this is a

652
00:34:09,285 --> 00:34:14,610
lie, but people in Western Europe were For
the same reason, you know, socialism and

653
00:34:14,620 --> 00:34:19,380
communism are now, uh, still going strong.

654
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:21,930
They still don't know that this is alive.

655
00:34:22,380 --> 00:34:26,890
Um, and, and it started to dawn on people.

656
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:28,820
It started to dawn on people.

657
00:34:28,940 --> 00:34:36,227
And once you have reached a point where
you lost faith in the currency, then you

658
00:34:36,227 --> 00:34:39,246
start Basically questioning everything.

659
00:34:40,336 --> 00:34:45,296
You can see this, you can see this in,
um, in, in Bitcoin circles as well, right?

660
00:34:45,296 --> 00:34:50,976
There's a phase for, for many Bitcoiners
where they first, they work a thousand

661
00:34:50,976 --> 00:34:52,916
hours on Bitcoin at the currency system.

662
00:34:52,986 --> 00:34:54,316
And then they say, Oh shit.

663
00:34:54,386 --> 00:34:54,686
Okay.

664
00:34:54,686 --> 00:34:55,246
I got it now.

665
00:34:55,246 --> 00:34:55,636
I got it.

666
00:34:55,836 --> 00:34:57,796
I have something that's absolutely scarce.

667
00:34:57,796 --> 00:34:59,276
I'm going to save in Bitcoin.

668
00:34:59,276 --> 00:35:03,076
And now I have time to look at the
food and the weather and whatever.

669
00:35:03,076 --> 00:35:05,866
And then they start to
be experts for a while.

670
00:35:06,417 --> 00:35:11,707
and, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's,
it's a start and I think that Bitcoin

671
00:35:11,937 --> 00:35:18,587
is so powerful because it shows you
an alternative and the idea of saving

672
00:35:18,967 --> 00:35:22,877
or transacting with your future
self is basically saving, right?

673
00:35:23,582 --> 00:35:26,362
Um, and this is something that
always motivated me because I

674
00:35:26,362 --> 00:35:27,942
think that people are savers.

675
00:35:28,432 --> 00:35:30,292
I don't think people need to be investors.

676
00:35:30,772 --> 00:35:33,952
Uh, I think that, you know, investing
in the stock market, investing in

677
00:35:33,952 --> 00:35:39,682
real estate only for the purpose
of saving is basically stupid.

678
00:35:40,262 --> 00:35:42,492
That's why I started with gold.

679
00:35:42,972 --> 00:35:46,182
but people who are very,
very, very, very well.

680
00:35:46,462 --> 00:35:50,982
It took me a while to understand like
the whole fiat money investing scheme.

681
00:35:50,982 --> 00:35:54,992
There are so many interests there
because there's so much money to be

682
00:35:54,992 --> 00:35:57,262
made by talking and managing and,

683
00:35:57,332 --> 00:35:57,542
and.

684
00:35:58,827 --> 00:36:00,587
if I may interrupt, like,

685
00:36:00,847 --> 00:36:05,217
the way I see it is that people only
invest into the stock market and

686
00:36:05,277 --> 00:36:07,227
property because the money is broken.

687
00:36:07,447 --> 00:36:10,257
That's why we're forced to invest

688
00:36:10,257 --> 00:36:12,567
in stocks and real estate, right?

689
00:36:12,992 --> 00:36:14,362
but we've been doing it for so long

690
00:36:14,372 --> 00:36:19,252
that there is a whole industry that's
built around in this, this need

691
00:36:19,292 --> 00:36:21,552
for investing your broken money.

692
00:36:22,222 --> 00:36:26,512
And this industry is opposed
to Bitcoin every level.

693
00:36:26,612 --> 00:36:27,822
It's not just the government.

694
00:36:27,842 --> 00:36:29,192
It's not just the central banks.

695
00:36:29,262 --> 00:36:33,632
It's everybody who's been talking
about ETFs and, um, dollar cost

696
00:36:33,672 --> 00:36:38,612
averaging into stocks and real estate
and, and, uh, the, the, the finance.

697
00:36:39,292 --> 00:36:39,982
people, right?

698
00:36:39,982 --> 00:36:41,872
They, they think they've figured it out.

699
00:36:42,162 --> 00:36:45,002
And now Bitcoin basically
solves the problem that they're

700
00:36:45,002 --> 00:36:46,332
solving very complicated.

701
00:36:46,532 --> 00:36:50,672
Bitcoin solves it in a, in a simple
and easy way, but they don't want that

702
00:36:50,672 --> 00:36:56,912
because they're the whole edifice, the
whole building of, of, of, of thoughts

703
00:36:56,952 --> 00:36:59,092
and ideas is built on the whole fiat

704
00:37:00,002 --> 00:37:00,922
on failing fiat.

705
00:37:01,122 --> 00:37:01,242
It

706
00:40:17,386 --> 00:40:18,846
Yeah, so, uh, another

707
00:40:18,906 --> 00:40:23,346
more philosophical question, if
you will, um, in your mind, in a

708
00:40:23,996 --> 00:40:28,106
hyperbitcoinized world, is there even
room for a financial sector at all,

709
00:40:28,176 --> 00:40:29,796
or does that just disappear?

710
00:40:30,957 --> 00:40:32,257
is a very, very good question.

711
00:40:34,513 --> 00:40:36,073
It's, it's a lot smaller.

712
00:40:37,403 --> 00:40:38,503
It's a lot smaller.

713
00:40:38,613 --> 00:40:42,733
Um, when you look at, when you look at the
history of the so called financial sector,

714
00:40:42,733 --> 00:40:45,573
it hasn't been this big for a long time.

715
00:40:45,643 --> 00:40:52,103
Um, uh, so this is a very, very fiat
phenomenon that 70 years ago, banks were

716
00:40:52,103 --> 00:40:53,883
not the biggest buildings in every city.

717
00:40:54,893 --> 00:40:59,183
Um, when you look at, when you, when
you watch, when you watch Wall Street,

718
00:40:59,193 --> 00:41:00,993
the first movie right from the eighties.

719
00:41:01,703 --> 00:41:02,413
Gordon Gekko.

720
00:41:03,213 --> 00:41:09,723
Gordon Gekko, the first scene is an old
guy stomping into the office and saying

721
00:41:09,833 --> 00:41:12,983
the whole country has gone to hell
since Nixon went off the gold standard.

722
00:41:13,568 --> 00:41:13,738
Right.

723
00:41:13,738 --> 00:41:14,568
That's the first scene.

724
00:41:14,568 --> 00:41:16,538
That's basically setting
the whole movie up.

725
00:41:16,858 --> 00:41:17,368
They got it.

726
00:41:17,378 --> 00:41:21,188
Maybe on a subconscious, uh, um,
but they got it in the eighties.

727
00:41:21,528 --> 00:41:26,708
They knew that this was basically that the
peak, uh, of the fiat money experiment.

728
00:41:27,755 --> 00:41:30,875
so do we need a financial sector?

729
00:41:31,885 --> 00:41:34,775
Absolutely not in that,
in that, in that size.

730
00:41:34,805 --> 00:41:37,685
And when you look at, when you look at
Europe, I mean, when you look at, uh,

731
00:41:38,525 --> 00:41:43,995
Germany and Austria who had very, very
hard currencies and the people in Germany

732
00:41:43,995 --> 00:41:46,845
and Austria are still money savers, right?

733
00:41:48,165 --> 00:41:52,315
I don't know how, I think in Finland is
actually lots of stocks now, but in, in,

734
00:41:52,355 --> 00:41:57,745
in, uh, uh, in Germany and Austria, 77
percent of the people even own stocks.

735
00:41:58,115 --> 00:41:59,655
So the financial.

736
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,070
The financial industry in Germany is
always complaining about the fact that

737
00:42:04,070 --> 00:42:07,480
Germans don't even want to partake
in the financial industry, right?

738
00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:09,290
So it's actually very, very small.

739
00:42:09,340 --> 00:42:13,550
Um, and there is no real
capital markets in Europe at

740
00:42:13,590 --> 00:42:15,310
any level compared to, to the U.

741
00:42:15,310 --> 00:42:15,520
S.

742
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,510
because people still
don't want to do that.

743
00:42:18,510 --> 00:42:22,260
They just want to put their
money in the bank and send

744
00:42:22,260 --> 00:42:23,580
it to the future self, right?

745
00:42:23,610 --> 00:42:23,810
That's

746
00:42:23,980 --> 00:42:25,850
exactly what you talked about, Knut.

747
00:42:26,734 --> 00:42:27,034
Yeah.

748
00:42:27,034 --> 00:42:28,234
And, uh, the,

749
00:42:28,364 --> 00:42:33,559
like, it used to be that the entrepreneur
employed, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Uh, hired

750
00:42:33,639 --> 00:42:38,279
an economist to do the numbers for
him and now it's the other way around.

751
00:42:38,289 --> 00:42:44,179
The entrepreneur has to go to a fucking
TV show like the Dragon's Den and beg for

752
00:42:44,179 --> 00:42:49,659
money basically, or beg VC investors to
like, so you have to beg the people who

753
00:42:49,679 --> 00:42:54,219
should actually be the servants for money.

754
00:42:56,079 --> 00:42:59,649
And by the way, do you know what
country in the world has the world

755
00:42:59,649 --> 00:43:05,979
record of number of economists,
uh, uh, employed by the state ever?

756
00:43:06,934 --> 00:43:08,334
Of course, the Soviet Union.

757
00:43:08,489 --> 00:43:08,949
Yes.

758
00:43:09,699 --> 00:43:12,279
That's a good, you have
won tonight's star prize.

759
00:43:12,374 --> 00:43:17,704
Um, I know this from Rahim Dagestan again,
who told me, told me, but it makes sense.

760
00:43:17,714 --> 00:43:20,134
It makes a lot of sense, you
know, because, you know, because

761
00:43:20,214 --> 00:43:22,334
economists are basically completely

762
00:43:22,334 --> 00:43:22,734
useless.

763
00:43:23,069 --> 00:43:24,359
Yeah, but it's the same thing.

764
00:43:24,369 --> 00:43:25,099
Like, as you

765
00:43:25,099 --> 00:43:29,789
say, the bankers, uh, banks are the,
uh, taking over the city centers

766
00:43:29,789 --> 00:43:31,649
of the world and it is communism.

767
00:43:31,819 --> 00:43:32,634
It's, it is, it is communism.

768
00:43:33,904 --> 00:43:37,614
A, a very, at least a very
similar phenomena when, when

769
00:43:37,614 --> 00:43:43,234
economists all of a sudden became,
become a, uh, uh, an elite class

770
00:43:43,234 --> 00:43:43,894
of people.

771
00:43:44,348 --> 00:43:45,098
So it makes more

772
00:43:45,098 --> 00:43:45,428
sense.

773
00:43:45,458 --> 00:43:48,418
It makes more sense when you, when
you don't think about communism

774
00:43:48,418 --> 00:43:52,688
and socialism, but you think about
the managerial classes, basically.

775
00:43:53,058 --> 00:43:57,798
So you have people in offices who
think that they can design stuff.

776
00:43:58,618 --> 00:44:01,948
It may be politicians, it may be
economists, it may be bankers.

777
00:44:02,718 --> 00:44:05,728
Um, but the problem with the
fiat money system that is that it

778
00:44:05,768 --> 00:44:07,928
gives the bankers enormous power.

779
00:44:07,928 --> 00:44:10,958
And, and of course, they don't
want to give that power away.

780
00:44:11,898 --> 00:44:16,108
And, and I don't know enough about,
you know, the real high levels

781
00:44:16,118 --> 00:44:20,038
of finance to think about, like,
to, to come to a conclusion here.

782
00:44:20,078 --> 00:44:25,107
It's, it's, but, but there is something
I can tell you that from my, from my

783
00:44:25,107 --> 00:44:29,857
own, um, encounters with, like high
level bankers that, that they, like with.

784
00:44:30,292 --> 00:44:35,052
Other people, um, I think they
instinctively know that they don't

785
00:44:35,062 --> 00:44:37,842
need, that they don't want Bitcoin
because Bitcoin is bad for their

786
00:44:37,842 --> 00:44:39,682
business and bad for their power.

787
00:44:39,912 --> 00:44:42,552
So they just, they, they
want like shit coins.

788
00:44:42,552 --> 00:44:46,012
They can, they can use them to,
to build products, you know?

789
00:44:46,781 --> 00:44:48,361
But they started out as banks, right?

790
00:44:48,361 --> 00:44:51,641
That's why I said, I mean, in the
end, I do think that there is going

791
00:44:51,641 --> 00:44:53,341
to be banks who custody Bitcoin.

792
00:44:53,341 --> 00:44:56,571
I know that's a, it's a
touchy subject, but I mean, we

793
00:44:56,571 --> 00:44:58,231
already have those honestly.

794
00:44:58,901 --> 00:45:02,781
So, so, so classical banks, traditional
banks will, will do that too.

795
00:45:03,341 --> 00:45:04,951
But I think it's still a long way off.

796
00:45:04,981 --> 00:45:08,936
Um, you know, It's,
it's, it's, I don't know.

797
00:45:09,036 --> 00:45:13,476
I really, I mean, but yeah, the idea, the
idea of a, of a, of no financial sector,

798
00:45:13,486 --> 00:45:14,896
a very, very small financial sector.

799
00:45:14,906 --> 00:45:15,726
Of course it makes sense.

800
00:45:15,726 --> 00:45:21,136
I mean, when you look at, when you look
at the idea of having, having hundreds

801
00:45:21,136 --> 00:45:24,746
of thousands of people just pushing
around paper to trade money around, it

802
00:45:24,746 --> 00:45:27,116
makes absolutely no, there's no point.

803
00:45:27,741 --> 00:45:28,041
no.

804
00:45:28,041 --> 00:45:29,601
There's nothing productive being done.

805
00:45:29,751 --> 00:45:29,961
Like

806
00:45:30,201 --> 00:45:31,341
there's nothing being built.

807
00:45:31,341 --> 00:45:31,761
There's no.

808
00:45:32,431 --> 00:45:35,941
There's no overarching, you
know, boon to humanity because

809
00:45:35,961 --> 00:45:36,951
people are doing this.

810
00:45:37,206 --> 00:45:37,616
Exactly.

811
00:45:37,616 --> 00:45:42,156
And you know who gets that,
funnily enough, the leftists.

812
00:45:42,821 --> 00:45:46,411
Yeah, they get it, it's just that
they have the wrong, they draw

813
00:45:46,411 --> 00:45:47,851
the wrong conclusions about it.

814
00:45:48,306 --> 00:45:50,106
So they, they, their conclusions,

815
00:45:50,366 --> 00:45:55,316
and this is why, why, um, why the,
the, the capitalists and the banks

816
00:45:55,366 --> 00:45:59,276
and the governments, they don't have
a problem with, with leftist protest

817
00:45:59,276 --> 00:46:02,826
and vokism and stuff is because
whatever they do, it doesn't really

818
00:46:02,826 --> 00:46:04,956
matter that the topic, it always

819
00:46:04,956 --> 00:46:06,076
leads to more government.

820
00:46:06,871 --> 00:46:08,231
Of course, the solution,

821
00:46:08,321 --> 00:46:09,841
the solution is always communism.

822
00:46:10,111 --> 00:46:14,991
The problems differ, but the solution is
always more, more state control, for some

823
00:46:14,991 --> 00:46:15,571
odd reason.

824
00:46:15,891 --> 00:46:16,881
for more state control.

825
00:46:16,881 --> 00:46:19,991
And then the people who have the
control, they say, okay, no problem.

826
00:46:19,991 --> 00:46:20,871
We'll take more control.

827
00:46:20,871 --> 00:46:21,851
You want to give me more power?

828
00:46:21,851 --> 00:46:22,271
No problem.

829
00:46:22,281 --> 00:46:22,971
Give me more power.

830
00:46:23,341 --> 00:46:28,241
And then they do some token policies
to keep the people busy, but the

831
00:46:28,261 --> 00:46:29,821
stuff that they really do, we probably

832
00:46:29,821 --> 00:46:30,911
never, you know, figure out.

833
00:46:31,951 --> 00:46:32,791
there's, there's,

834
00:46:33,061 --> 00:46:35,911
here's a point that Jeff
Booth points out often.

835
00:46:36,261 --> 00:46:40,221
That, uh, like regardless of the
protest, even if it's the yellow vests

836
00:46:40,221 --> 00:46:45,771
in France, or, or, you know, just stop
oil, or, no matter what the protest

837
00:46:45,771 --> 00:46:50,271
is, if it's a quote unquote left
wing or right wing protest, uh, the

838
00:46:50,271 --> 00:46:52,691
destruction that follows when people move.

839
00:46:52,851 --> 00:46:57,661
are upset and and there's civil unrest
and they break things is that the the

840
00:46:57,661 --> 00:47:01,761
system that is causing the problem is
is being reinforced because they are

841
00:47:02,091 --> 00:47:06,911
all of these reparations will have to be
paid for by someone and the politicians

842
00:47:06,911 --> 00:47:12,211
aren't gonna they have only one way
to extract money to pay for stuff and

843
00:47:12,211 --> 00:47:16,621
that's to take it from the people either
via inflation or taxes so so it just

844
00:47:16,621 --> 00:47:19,841
reinforces the the problems the problems

845
00:47:19,871 --> 00:47:21,991
that are they they
believe they're fighting

846
00:47:22,551 --> 00:47:23,761
I think, I think Jeff is

847
00:47:23,771 --> 00:47:24,231
brilliant.

848
00:47:24,251 --> 00:47:25,431
I learned a lot from him.

849
00:47:25,511 --> 00:47:29,591
I think that the, and this is interesting
for Bitcoin perspective too, right?

850
00:47:29,591 --> 00:47:30,251
That's what I said.

851
00:47:30,721 --> 00:47:34,261
It's like the more energy you
put into fighting something,

852
00:47:34,941 --> 00:47:36,801
you make it bigger, right?

853
00:47:36,991 --> 00:47:42,231
It's like the idea, the idea of,
um, somebody who is depressed, who

854
00:47:42,231 --> 00:47:46,330
has a problem to go to therapy,
to just talk about this one

855
00:47:46,330 --> 00:47:47,500
problem just makes it bigger.

856
00:47:48,660 --> 00:47:50,890
Um, and this is interesting.

857
00:47:51,430 --> 00:47:56,290
This is why I try to, um, I don't know,
even on a very small scale, when I, like,

858
00:47:56,290 --> 00:48:00,600
I go on Twitter, I don't go on Twitter a
lot anymore because it just triggers me

859
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:05,370
too much, but I go on Twitter and I think,
ah, somebody on the internet is wrong.

860
00:48:05,370 --> 00:48:08,500
I have to, I have to say something and
then I just delete it and I don't never

861
00:48:08,500 --> 00:48:14,170
send it because, because it's, it's, it's,
and, and, and now this is interesting

862
00:48:15,690 --> 00:48:21,345
because the, the, the system, whatever the
system, like, The governments, the bank,

863
00:48:21,905 --> 00:48:23,975
they give Bitcoin a lot of attention.

864
00:48:25,285 --> 00:48:27,985
The ECB hates it so much.

865
00:48:27,985 --> 00:48:29,585
They're screaming at it all the time.

866
00:48:29,585 --> 00:48:32,495
They write stupid articles
with stupid arguments.

867
00:48:32,985 --> 00:48:38,255
You see them foaming at their mouth,
which is absolutely beautiful.

868
00:48:38,535 --> 00:48:42,335
If they didn't see Bitcoin as a
real thing, or even as a threat,

869
00:48:42,535 --> 00:48:43,725
they wouldn't be doing this.

870
00:48:43,995 --> 00:48:47,995
Nobody cares one iota
about what Ethereum does.

871
00:48:48,743 --> 00:48:51,463
No, they're Barbara
Streisand ing the shit out

872
00:48:51,483 --> 00:48:52,083
of Bitcoin.

873
00:48:52,093 --> 00:48:53,313
Like that's what they're doing.

874
00:48:53,788 --> 00:48:54,758
And they cannot stop.

875
00:48:54,998 --> 00:48:55,468
And even

876
00:48:55,468 --> 00:48:59,918
with people who don't, even with
people who don't have any like real

877
00:49:00,718 --> 00:49:06,028
connection to this thing, especially
when the price goes down, you can see

878
00:49:06,028 --> 00:49:11,198
them like we have a famous TV anchor
here in Austria who hates Bitcoin.

879
00:49:11,218 --> 00:49:14,268
I've been arguing with
him about Bitcoin in 2013.

880
00:49:15,133 --> 00:49:19,313
And I remember this because in 2013,
I should not have argued with him.

881
00:49:19,733 --> 00:49:21,563
I should just have bought Bitcoin, right?

882
00:49:21,663 --> 00:49:22,233
But I didn't.

883
00:49:22,703 --> 00:49:23,103
I didn't.

884
00:49:23,363 --> 00:49:26,253
Instead, instead of buying Bitcoin,
I used my time to argue with

885
00:49:26,253 --> 00:49:27,713
him and he still doesn't get it.

886
00:49:27,913 --> 00:49:30,923
And when it goes down, he's
like, Oh, it's going down.

887
00:49:30,923 --> 00:49:31,603
It's dead now.

888
00:49:31,643 --> 00:49:33,903
See, I was right 10 years ago.

889
00:49:34,243 --> 00:49:36,413
Um, and when it goes up,
of course he ignores it.

890
00:49:36,443 --> 00:49:38,523
And then he comes back
out when it goes down.

891
00:49:38,623 --> 00:49:40,793
And, and the ECB is perfect.

892
00:49:40,793 --> 00:49:47,688
I mean, I, I'm trying to meme the, the
idea of the ECB bottom into existence

893
00:49:47,718 --> 00:49:52,348
because their last, um, article, it
was published in English as Bitcoin's

894
00:49:52,668 --> 00:49:55,328
last stand at the end of, um, November.

895
00:49:55,908 --> 00:49:59,288
Um, but it was actually
published in German on the

896
00:49:59,288 --> 00:50:01,518
exact day of the bottom.

897
00:50:02,580 --> 00:50:03,560
that's fantastic.

898
00:50:04,020 --> 00:50:08,980
And Christine Lagarde's famous quote,
uh, if there is an escape hatch, people

899
00:50:08,980 --> 00:50:14,650
will use it or if the, yeah, the best
ad for Bitcoin ever uttered by any

900
00:50:14,660 --> 00:50:15,400
human being.

901
00:50:15,410 --> 00:50:16,210
It's so good.

902
00:50:16,815 --> 00:50:21,065
Imagine, imagine you're
Christine Lagarde's adult son,

903
00:50:22,060 --> 00:50:22,670
Yes.

904
00:50:22,835 --> 00:50:29,085
and she's talking to world media
about you fucking up crypto.

905
00:50:29,730 --> 00:50:30,590
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

906
00:50:32,105 --> 00:50:32,835
It's great.

907
00:50:33,155 --> 00:50:34,955
Uh, no, and, and this is so true.

908
00:50:35,175 --> 00:50:39,275
Like the thing you said about Twitter, I,
I identify with that so much, or I can,

909
00:50:39,285 --> 00:50:44,955
uh, it's not that my pronouns are Twitter,
but, uh, I, I identify, like, I recognize

910
00:50:44,955 --> 00:50:48,795
that so much, and we're, we're even
writing about that in the new book and

911
00:50:48,795 --> 00:50:52,805
everything, how your focus and attention
creates reality to a much larger extent

912
00:50:52,825 --> 00:50:59,130
than you think, and how you just reinforce
stuff by, by, uh, uh, Paying it attention.

913
00:50:59,180 --> 00:51:02,090
So like instead of fighting the
people that are wrong on the

914
00:51:02,090 --> 00:51:05,760
internet Just focus on being right
on the internet and the good things

915
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:06,400
will follow

916
00:51:07,005 --> 00:51:08,645
It's like when you, it's like when you,

917
00:51:09,155 --> 00:51:13,085
I don't know, when you have a pimple on
your face and you think you're ugly now

918
00:51:13,085 --> 00:51:16,165
because there's a pimple on your face
and you think the whole world can only

919
00:51:16,165 --> 00:51:20,275
see the pimple on your face, but then
you figure out that you First of all,

920
00:51:20,285 --> 00:51:22,205
they don't look at you that closely.

921
00:51:22,635 --> 00:51:23,795
And second, even if they do,

922
00:51:23,815 --> 00:51:25,925
they don't even see the pimple, right?

923
00:51:27,150 --> 00:51:29,990
No, and the more you fight the
pimple the bigger it grows.

924
00:51:30,245 --> 00:51:30,735
Exactly.

925
00:51:30,735 --> 00:51:32,345
When you start, you know,
trying to get rid of the

926
00:51:32,345 --> 00:51:33,865
pimple, it just grows and grows.

927
00:51:33,905 --> 00:51:34,195
Right.

928
00:51:34,735 --> 00:51:39,795
Um, and, and, and this is something
that everybody has to learn.

929
00:51:39,795 --> 00:51:43,945
And, and I think Bitcoin
really helps with that.

930
00:51:44,065 --> 00:51:49,965
It's, it's, it's It took me,
like, you asked me an hour ago

931
00:51:50,265 --> 00:51:54,165
about my story, it took me about
seven years to, to get Bitcoin.

932
00:51:54,355 --> 00:51:57,285
I'm not saying I understand it,
I think that that's going to be

933
00:51:57,335 --> 00:52:01,875
a lifelong process, but it took
me seven years to, to get it.

934
00:52:01,875 --> 00:52:05,725
I started in 2013 and
it took me until 2020.

935
00:52:06,270 --> 00:52:07,750
to take it really seriously.

936
00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:11,940
Um, and also because, because,
you know, life gets in the way.

937
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:16,250
It's not like we have time to, to
now we do now that we decided that

938
00:52:16,250 --> 00:52:21,640
this is important after I, after
my, my, my, my hardcore Bitcoin

939
00:52:21,980 --> 00:52:26,170
phase in 2020, I knew very, very
quickly that I need to change jobs.

940
00:52:26,170 --> 00:52:30,920
I need to change my whole career because I
need time to talk to people about Bitcoin.

941
00:52:32,910 --> 00:52:37,470
And, and since I've done that, I'm, I'm
a lot, um, easier to deal with because

942
00:52:37,470 --> 00:52:41,570
when I come home, uh, I don't have to
talk about Bitcoin with my wife anymore.

943
00:52:41,570 --> 00:52:43,140
And she's very glad about that.

944
00:52:43,140 --> 00:52:43,590
She just,

945
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:45,630
she doesn't want to hear about it.

946
00:52:46,636 --> 00:52:52,196
Oh, that reminds me of an, uh, when
My wife first met Joni Appelberg,

947
00:52:52,216 --> 00:52:57,131
you know, the animator that I
sometimes collaborate with Yeah, yeah.

948
00:52:57,131 --> 00:53:00,531
Hey, Joni, if you're watching and,
uh, we were sitting in Riga having

949
00:53:00,531 --> 00:53:05,231
dinner together and he starts talking
about longevity and microcellular

950
00:53:05,871 --> 00:53:10,631
biology and stuff, passionate about
the subject and she's sitting there,

951
00:53:10,651 --> 00:53:13,051
Curtis, and just, okay, thank you.

952
00:53:13,151 --> 00:53:14,031
Very interesting.

953
00:53:14,441 --> 00:53:18,186
And I just look at her and I'm
like, Isn't this wonderful, darling?

954
00:53:18,196 --> 00:53:22,596
Like, you're, you're, you're
in a situation now where every,

955
00:53:22,626 --> 00:53:26,166
there's a, there's 2000 people
here and they're all like me.

956
00:53:28,186 --> 00:53:29,136
Isn't it wonderful?

957
00:53:29,136 --> 00:53:30,496
That's just, yeah.

958
00:53:31,026 --> 00:53:37,191
Uh, anyway, I had two questions on my
mind and now 10 questions later, I'm going

959
00:53:37,191 --> 00:53:43,041
to get to the second question because I
think this, uh, ties back to, you know,

960
00:53:43,151 --> 00:53:45,021
uh, talking about the state of Bitcoin.

961
00:53:45,031 --> 00:53:47,421
Luke's question about the
state of Bitcoin right now.

962
00:53:47,881 --> 00:53:51,451
So, What's the state of the EU right now?

963
00:53:51,471 --> 00:53:58,131
Like, um, uh, how bad is it and how close
to the Soviet Union are we in terms of,

964
00:53:58,161 --> 00:54:03,691
should the EU flag really have a red
background color instead of a blue one?

965
00:54:04,401 --> 00:54:06,141
Where are we and why?

966
00:54:06,861 --> 00:54:08,391
It is absolutely

967
00:54:08,541 --> 00:54:15,201
like, I always like get a, when, when
there's a China EU summit and you have

968
00:54:15,871 --> 00:54:19,431
the red flag with a couple of stars
on one side and the blue flag with

969
00:54:19,431 --> 00:54:23,171
a couple of stars on the other side,
it's really, really horrid to see that.

970
00:54:23,441 --> 00:54:23,741
Right.

971
00:54:24,581 --> 00:54:27,581
Um, it's like, don't people see it?

972
00:54:27,581 --> 00:54:28,451
I don't understand.

973
00:54:28,451 --> 00:54:30,701
It's, it's, it's very hard for me,

974
00:54:31,221 --> 00:54:31,611
what I,

975
00:54:31,711 --> 00:54:35,941
what it's really, what, like what,
what the EU is really lacking is

976
00:54:35,981 --> 00:54:37,971
any sort of positive coherence.

977
00:54:38,676 --> 00:54:43,323
Um, promise, basically, there's
many things going wrong.

978
00:54:44,023 --> 00:54:50,283
I see the end result of
inflation everywhere.

979
00:54:51,313 --> 00:54:57,603
Um, and that, by that, I mean, um,
basically the only way to, to fight the

980
00:54:57,613 --> 00:55:01,908
negative consequences of inflation is,
A, more inflation and B, more control.

981
00:55:01,908 --> 00:55:03,998
That's what Christine
Lagarde talked about, right?

982
00:55:04,288 --> 00:55:07,448
First of all, we're going to, we're
going to inflate your money, but

983
00:55:07,508 --> 00:55:11,178
second, we're also going to do financial
repression and that goes hand in hand

984
00:55:11,178 --> 00:55:16,208
with building up a surveillance state
and we control what you can say, um,

985
00:55:16,248 --> 00:55:17,898
and, and all that kind of stuff, right?

986
00:55:18,018 --> 00:55:20,448
Um, they, they look at China.

987
00:55:21,213 --> 00:55:26,923
With the red flag, they look at their
form of, uh, uh, of surveillance, of

988
00:55:26,923 --> 00:55:31,133
a surveillance state as, as a positive
example, not as a negative, uh, thing.

989
00:55:31,143 --> 00:55:35,869
They talk about freedom, but I don't
really see why they would, you know,

990
00:55:36,223 --> 00:55:37,843
have any right to talk about freedom.

991
00:55:39,203 --> 00:55:40,003
then there is

992
00:55:40,707 --> 00:55:44,647
the real and obvious
problem that the people

993
00:55:44,647 --> 00:55:49,907
in power, and this is true for most
countries probably, but especially

994
00:55:49,907 --> 00:55:52,587
for the EU, they're idiots.

995
00:55:54,632 --> 00:55:56,592
And it took me a very long time.

996
00:55:58,292 --> 00:56:01,862
It took me a very long time to be,
to like have the, the self confidence

997
00:56:01,892 --> 00:56:06,722
to say this, but the older you grow,
the older you get, and the more

998
00:56:06,722 --> 00:56:08,412
you learn about people in life.

999
00:56:09,122 --> 00:56:14,402
And then you, you know, combine the idea
of, of where do we stand with the EU?

1000
00:56:14,412 --> 00:56:16,582
Where do we stand with
Fiat, the Fiat system?

1001
00:56:16,582 --> 00:56:20,342
And then if you look at what,
what, what every country is doing,

1002
00:56:20,352 --> 00:56:22,862
they, they send everybody they
want to get rid of to Brussels.

1003
00:56:23,892 --> 00:56:24,222
Right.

1004
00:56:25,192 --> 00:56:32,392
So, so you really have a toxic
combination of incentives and stupidity.

1005
00:56:33,272 --> 00:56:37,662
That's very, very scary because
that's also something you asked

1006
00:56:37,662 --> 00:56:39,172
me about the Soviet Union.

1007
00:56:39,172 --> 00:56:40,602
I don't know about the Soviet Union.

1008
00:56:40,622 --> 00:56:42,952
Like, I don't know how close we are.

1009
00:56:43,002 --> 00:56:46,552
There is many things that
we still have many freedoms.

1010
00:56:46,552 --> 00:56:48,292
We still have that the Soviets never had.

1011
00:56:48,292 --> 00:56:48,572
Right.

1012
00:56:48,612 --> 00:56:50,812
And the people living in
the Soviet Union never had.

1013
00:56:50,812 --> 00:56:50,832
Right.

1014
00:56:51,732 --> 00:56:55,872
But one thing you really had in the
Soviet Union is that after a while

1015
00:56:56,312 --> 00:57:02,432
and about 600 different purges by
Stalin and his friends, only the

1016
00:57:02,432 --> 00:57:04,872
really shifty idiots survived, right?

1017
00:57:05,962 --> 00:57:11,752
And that is scary because I don't,
like, I don't see, when I look at the

1018
00:57:11,752 --> 00:57:16,742
people doing regulations in Brussels,
I don't see any real competence.

1019
00:57:17,567 --> 00:57:18,817
And this is, that's scary.

1020
00:57:18,887 --> 00:57:24,617
Maybe that's probably true in the US
as well, but the US has more stable

1021
00:57:24,617 --> 00:57:25,387
institutions.

1022
00:57:26,831 --> 00:57:27,311
Yeah, do you think

1023
00:57:27,621 --> 00:57:32,681
that's connected to the, uh, uh, to
academia and the school system and

1024
00:57:32,681 --> 00:57:37,401
the erosion of that, uh, throughout
the years through socialists, utopian

1025
00:57:37,401 --> 00:57:42,525
thoughts of everyone being equal,
like ruining the meritocracy of that.

1026
00:57:42,555 --> 00:57:47,415
So, so that obedience gets you the
high grades rather than actually being

1027
00:57:47,925 --> 00:57:48,865
good at stuff.

1028
00:57:50,143 --> 00:57:50,373
let's

1029
00:57:50,373 --> 00:57:51,863
just say, let's, let's put it this way.

1030
00:57:51,963 --> 00:57:57,463
The, the idea of an American entrepreneur,
um, you know, if you finish, you finished

1031
00:57:57,483 --> 00:58:00,143
college, it's a bad thing, right?

1032
00:58:00,143 --> 00:58:01,933
In the US.

1033
00:58:02,883 --> 00:58:06,733
As an entrepreneur in Europe,
we wouldn't see that, right?

1034
00:58:07,933 --> 00:58:11,223
I'm a college dropout that,
you know, a university dropout

1035
00:58:11,223 --> 00:58:12,143
that doesn't really work.

1036
00:58:12,243 --> 00:58:15,393
Um, you see, the problem is this.

1037
00:58:15,893 --> 00:58:19,653
I don't, I don't, I try
to not think in absolutes.

1038
00:58:20,493 --> 00:58:22,203
Um, what do I mean by that?

1039
00:58:23,273 --> 00:58:26,713
There are things in Europe that
are a lot better than in the U.

1040
00:58:26,713 --> 00:58:26,883
S.

1041
00:58:27,821 --> 00:58:32,591
there are, first of all, even within
the fiat system, because the U.

1042
00:58:32,591 --> 00:58:32,781
S.

1043
00:58:32,781 --> 00:58:37,201
has the exorbitant privilege of
printing the dollar, um, we do

1044
00:58:37,201 --> 00:58:42,015
have some sort of, um, game theory
and some sort of, reference.

1045
00:58:42,435 --> 00:58:46,145
What I mean by that is there's
a reason that my old, um, diesel

1046
00:58:46,155 --> 00:58:49,795
Golf that's standing outside like
a small Volkswagen is going a

1047
00:58:49,795 --> 00:58:51,735
thousand kilometers on one tank.

1048
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:56,670
And the American truck is going a
thousand meters on the same tank.

1049
00:58:56,970 --> 00:58:57,990
There's a reason, right?

1050
00:58:57,990 --> 00:59:01,740
The reason is that, that, that there,
that we still have to pay for stuff.

1051
00:59:01,770 --> 00:59:02,660
The Americans don't.

1052
00:59:03,530 --> 00:59:04,550
They just print the money.

1053
00:59:05,669 --> 00:59:09,339
is a, there is something to be said
about social security systems and,

1054
00:59:09,399 --> 00:59:15,279
and even like, um, the idea of, uh,
uh, a social market economy like

1055
00:59:15,309 --> 00:59:17,119
we had in Germany and in Austria.

1056
00:59:17,659 --> 00:59:21,179
Um, the problem is that you forget that
at some point you forget that the market

1057
00:59:21,239 --> 00:59:25,089
economy has to, you know, make the
money first before you distributed it.

1058
00:59:25,239 --> 00:59:25,689
Right.

1059
00:59:26,169 --> 00:59:28,949
Um, and then you go down
the road to socialism.

1060
00:59:29,719 --> 00:59:33,559
Um, there is something to be said about
all these things, especially like one

1061
00:59:33,559 --> 00:59:35,369
of my pet peeps would be food, right?

1062
00:59:35,469 --> 00:59:40,379
Food that I get here in, in, in
Austria, um, and in Italy and in

1063
00:59:40,379 --> 00:59:45,219
Europe generally is so far superior
to the U S that I do, I wouldn't even

1064
00:59:45,229 --> 00:59:46,709
know how to live there, honestly.

1065
00:59:46,904 --> 00:59:51,014
Like Americans watching this, they're
like, Oh, my beef is grass fed, right?

1066
00:59:51,054 --> 00:59:53,954
And we don't even, I don't even
know what, what else there is.

1067
00:59:54,744 --> 00:59:55,024
Right.

1068
00:59:55,134 --> 00:59:56,684
no, that's what cows eat.

1069
00:59:56,684 --> 00:59:56,874
Yeah.

1070
00:59:56,874 --> 00:59:56,884
Yeah.

1071
00:59:56,884 --> 00:59:56,894
Yeah.

1072
00:59:57,004 --> 00:59:57,974
that's what cows eat.

1073
00:59:58,044 --> 00:59:58,474
Yes.

1074
00:59:59,174 --> 01:00:03,454
So, so, so there are like
advantages and I don't know.

1075
01:00:03,584 --> 01:00:05,624
Like it's, it's, it's.

1076
01:00:06,469 --> 01:00:11,589
I'm sure that it's a mistake to, to
attribute all the negatives in Europe

1077
01:00:11,589 --> 01:00:15,409
to the EU and all the positives to
what's happening in the nation states.

1078
01:00:15,409 --> 01:00:16,569
That's definitely bad.

1079
01:00:16,919 --> 01:00:22,799
Um, the, the, the basic idea of
the EU of having France and Germany

1080
01:00:22,799 --> 01:00:26,369
in one entity, not fighting each
other is, is still important.

1081
01:00:26,379 --> 01:00:32,744
I mean, we're going into a phase with more
nationalism, more, more, uh, potential

1082
01:00:32,834 --> 01:00:39,974
conflict and really don't want, uh, uh, a
repeat of world war one or two in Europe.

1083
01:00:40,004 --> 01:00:41,894
I think that that's something
we should all agree on.

1084
01:00:42,578 --> 01:00:49,028
but the combination of socialist
tendencies in the nation states and on

1085
01:00:49,028 --> 01:00:50,928
the EU level is really, really toxic.

1086
01:00:51,348 --> 01:00:53,868
And I don't know how we're
going to get out of this.

1087
01:00:54,098 --> 01:00:58,288
I really don't, I have
no, like, I have no idea.

1088
01:00:58,298 --> 01:00:58,678
I

1089
01:00:58,708 --> 01:00:59,448
Yeah, you do.

1090
01:01:00,028 --> 01:01:01,158
Yes, you do.

1091
01:01:01,248 --> 01:01:01,588
mean Bitcoin?

1092
01:01:01,918 --> 01:01:02,498
Yes.

1093
01:01:03,113 --> 01:01:07,323
Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, if you have,
if you have, if you have some sort of,

1094
01:01:07,353 --> 01:01:10,495
um, of a true cost of stuff, right.

1095
01:01:10,675 --> 01:01:13,085
Um, if you, yeah, then that would help.

1096
01:01:13,085 --> 01:01:17,555
I mean, if you look at what's happening
in, in, in, um, uh, just right today that,

1097
01:01:17,645 --> 01:01:24,055
uh, Turkey has now finally figured out
that they cannot, that MMT is not working.

1098
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,740
And, and they cannot just print
the money and they just decided to

1099
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:32,460
basically, uh, cut the state in half.

1100
01:01:33,110 --> 01:01:37,160
Uh, they're not gonna, you know, have new,
new, new employees in the state business.

1101
01:01:37,180 --> 01:01:38,770
They're not even gonna buy new cars.

1102
01:01:39,210 --> 01:01:41,720
If it's not an ambulance, it's not
going to get a bought, they're not

1103
01:01:41,750 --> 01:01:43,040
going to build any new buildings.

1104
01:01:43,110 --> 01:01:44,430
They don't have the money anymore.

1105
01:01:44,460 --> 01:01:45,030
They're fucked.

1106
01:01:45,745 --> 01:01:49,875
Um, so this is something that, that
at some point, if there is, if, if

1107
01:01:50,285 --> 01:01:55,015
reality clashes with, with, with, um,
the costs, with the costs get too high,

1108
01:01:55,295 --> 01:02:00,695
then maybe we can get back to some sort
of, of, but like I said, I, I honestly

1109
01:02:00,695 --> 01:02:06,225
think that Uh, we need some sort of big
crisis and then we'll see what a, what

1110
01:02:06,225 --> 01:02:09,535
a, what a European, where the EU is
standing, if it's still there or not.

1111
01:02:10,115 --> 01:02:11,785
Um, it's very hard to say,

1112
01:02:11,785 --> 01:02:12,075
I

1113
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:12,520
Yeah.

1114
01:02:12,530 --> 01:02:13,430
Let's just all,

1115
01:02:13,750 --> 01:02:17,040
we can all just hope that
hyperbitcoinization precedes

1116
01:02:17,050 --> 01:02:21,260
hyperinflation because that's,
that's the hopeful part, right?

1117
01:02:21,810 --> 01:02:22,330
Otherwise

1118
01:02:22,340 --> 01:02:23,220
it's going to be tough.

1119
01:02:23,555 --> 01:02:25,305
mean, I mean, I, I, I, I'm

1120
01:02:25,305 --> 01:02:29,015
going to say this we talked
about, like I'm talking about,

1121
01:02:29,105 --> 01:02:34,355
uh, escapes, it's, it's, it's very
much part of the same coin, right?

1122
01:02:34,355 --> 01:02:39,225
Because, because hyperinflation is,
is a collapse in the, in the trust,

1123
01:02:39,225 --> 01:02:42,380
trust, trust, trust It's like a
collapse in the demand for money, or

1124
01:02:42,420 --> 01:02:44,060
a collapse in the demand for currency.

1125
01:02:44,870 --> 01:02:48,470
So if people demand Only
Bitcoin and don't demand a euro

1126
01:02:48,470 --> 01:02:48,750
anymore.

1127
01:02:48,750 --> 01:02:50,080
That would lead to hyperinflation,

1128
01:02:50,711 --> 01:02:55,011
but, uh, but the flip side also, it
would also lead to hyperbitcoinization.

1129
01:02:55,916 --> 01:02:56,696
yeah, it would.

1130
01:02:56,756 --> 01:02:59,046
Um, but, but I don't think
that we are there yet.

1131
01:02:59,086 --> 01:03:02,986
I think that, that one of the
reasons why, why, uh, the Europeans

1132
01:03:03,856 --> 01:03:07,896
desperately want the stupid digital
euro is because they're, they're

1133
01:03:07,896 --> 01:03:08,926
not actually scared of Bitcoin.

1134
01:03:09,146 --> 01:03:10,186
They're scared of the dollar.

1135
01:03:10,711 --> 01:03:11,461
And they should be.

1136
01:03:11,971 --> 01:03:12,321
Yeah,

1137
01:03:12,331 --> 01:03:12,831
should be.

1138
01:03:12,941 --> 01:03:14,251
They should be very scared.

1139
01:03:15,461 --> 01:03:16,781
yeah, absolutely.

1140
01:03:16,981 --> 01:03:22,621
I mean, that's, this reminds me, your,
your, um, um, description of social

1141
01:03:22,621 --> 01:03:27,101
democracy, let's say, there, uh,
reminds me of another quote from two

1142
01:03:27,101 --> 01:03:29,961
people we mentioned in the beginning
of the show, Ronald Reagan and Margaret

1143
01:03:29,961 --> 01:03:34,571
Thatcher, and one of my favorite
Thatcher quotes is, uh, The problem

1144
01:03:34,571 --> 01:03:38,231
with socialism is that sooner or later
you run out of other people's money.

1145
01:03:39,331 --> 01:03:39,711
Yes.

1146
01:03:39,781 --> 01:03:40,201
And, and,

1147
01:03:40,201 --> 01:03:41,751
and yeah, and we

1148
01:03:41,771 --> 01:03:42,481
haven't yet.

1149
01:03:42,561 --> 01:03:43,191
We haven't yet.

1150
01:03:43,291 --> 01:03:44,331
That's, that's my point.

1151
01:03:44,511 --> 01:03:47,591
We haven't like Western Europe hasn't
run out of other people's money yet.

1152
01:03:47,631 --> 01:03:48,621
We are not even close.

1153
01:03:48,731 --> 01:03:51,761
So, so I see, I see,

1154
01:03:52,841 --> 01:03:54,291
I, this could take 20 more years,

1155
01:03:54,961 --> 01:03:55,291
yeah.

1156
01:03:55,781 --> 01:03:56,771
And it's also why,

1157
01:03:56,811 --> 01:04:03,031
why, uh, people like the Scandinavian
model gets credited, uh, by American

1158
01:04:03,031 --> 01:04:09,246
leftists a lot because like, uh,
when, when Americans want an example

1159
01:04:09,246 --> 01:04:11,506
of well functioning socialist states.

1160
01:04:11,506 --> 01:04:13,186
They point at Scandinavia.

1161
01:04:13,706 --> 01:04:17,306
And what they don't realize is that
the Scandinavian countries have had

1162
01:04:17,566 --> 01:04:22,286
stock markets for far, far longer than
most other countries in the world.

1163
01:04:22,856 --> 01:04:27,566
And also that the biggest companies in
Sweden were all started before 1950.

1164
01:04:29,116 --> 01:04:33,676
So, so What has happened since
is basically just the running

1165
01:04:33,676 --> 01:04:35,266
out of other people's money part.

1166
01:04:35,881 --> 01:04:39,371
uh, but it gets wrongly
credited for everything good,

1167
01:04:39,921 --> 01:04:41,181
uh, in those countries.

1168
01:04:41,916 --> 01:04:44,056
One thing, one thing we're absolutely

1169
01:04:44,056 --> 01:04:44,936
missing in Europe.

1170
01:04:44,986 --> 01:04:50,896
And one thing that the Americans
still have or two things is a

1171
01:04:51,006 --> 01:04:53,326
respect for personal liberties.

1172
01:04:54,291 --> 01:05:00,371
And the belief in capitalism,
basically, like the market economy,

1173
01:05:00,371 --> 01:05:02,931
the belief that somebody can build
up something from nothing and

1174
01:05:02,931 --> 01:05:04,631
that that's a good thing, right?

1175
01:05:05,061 --> 01:05:09,928
We live in a world where, um, you
know, there is this discussion,

1176
01:05:10,038 --> 01:05:13,558
what has been, you know, what came
first, the chicken or the egg?

1177
01:05:15,048 --> 01:05:21,858
When it comes to companies or employees,
I don't think we can discuss this, right?

1178
01:05:21,898 --> 01:05:23,508
The companies came first.

1179
01:05:23,538 --> 01:05:24,638
They needed the employees.

1180
01:05:25,298 --> 01:05:29,768
And of course, I respect anybody
who says we are, even you can

1181
01:05:29,768 --> 01:05:31,158
do a union, whatever, you know.

1182
01:05:31,278 --> 01:05:31,628
Um.

1183
01:05:32,528 --> 01:05:37,358
Do whatever, but you have to respect
the business people and when you

1184
01:05:37,358 --> 01:05:40,168
look at the history, what you said
about Sweden is very interesting.

1185
01:05:40,178 --> 01:05:44,348
When you look at the history of Western
Europe and the companies that have been

1186
01:05:44,368 --> 01:05:48,398
built in Western Europe, the giants of
industry, when you look at the German

1187
01:05:48,398 --> 01:05:54,188
car industry, when you look at German,
whatever industry, it has been a story

1188
01:05:54,268 --> 01:05:59,598
out of the ashes of World War II in
a world where they were so destroyed.

1189
01:06:00,253 --> 01:06:06,603
That, that there wasn't any money
there for some sort of thick social,

1190
01:06:06,723 --> 01:06:07,623
socialist layer.

1191
01:06:08,003 --> 01:06:09,373
You just had to get to work.

1192
01:06:10,438 --> 01:06:11,948
And you had Ludwig Erhardt.

1193
01:06:12,948 --> 01:06:16,878
Uh, which is an unsung hero
of, uh, German, uh, economics.

1194
01:06:17,283 --> 01:06:18,413
It's today.

1195
01:06:18,423 --> 01:06:18,633
Yeah.

1196
01:06:18,633 --> 01:06:18,733
I

1197
01:06:18,733 --> 01:06:19,823
mean, yeah, exactly.

1198
01:06:19,853 --> 01:06:21,453
It's, it's, it has been forgotten.

1199
01:06:22,253 --> 01:06:22,293
Yeah.

1200
01:06:22,933 --> 01:06:28,523
Um, that's the idea that you have
a, uh, uh, social, what we call

1201
01:06:28,533 --> 01:06:33,443
it, sociale marktwirtschaft, social
market economics, but it only works

1202
01:06:33,443 --> 01:06:35,693
if the market part is bigger than 50%.

1203
01:06:35,694 --> 01:06:36,348
Right.

1204
01:06:36,938 --> 01:06:39,868
If the social part gets bigger,
it starts eating the market part.

1205
01:06:39,868 --> 01:06:43,418
And then you just, you have to pile on
debt on debt, and that leads to inflation.

1206
01:06:43,688 --> 01:06:43,858
And

1207
01:06:43,858 --> 01:06:45,088
now we are in this situation.

1208
01:06:45,688 --> 01:06:47,728
Yeah, and now we're in clown world

1209
01:06:47,728 --> 01:06:53,808
instead, which is what ensues, and,
uh, I mean, the, uh, the problem, as

1210
01:06:53,808 --> 01:06:59,478
I see it, is that I, I don't think
democracies are inherently stable.

1211
01:06:59,853 --> 01:07:04,713
I think rather the opposite,
unfortunately, that they, over time, tend

1212
01:07:04,713 --> 01:07:10,853
to, all these institutions, as soon as
they're erected, they grow like cancers,

1213
01:07:10,933 --> 01:07:12,513
especially if you have a central bank.

1214
01:07:12,513 --> 01:07:16,153
Not, not entirely sure if you don't
have the central bank, but if you do,

1215
01:07:16,423 --> 01:07:22,433
I think, uh, Inevitably, you will get
above the threshold of 50 percent and

1216
01:07:22,443 --> 01:07:28,303
after that, uh, you're basically on
a, on a downward slope and the, the,

1217
01:07:28,313 --> 01:07:30,193
the, the, there's only revolutionary

1218
01:07:30,193 --> 01:07:31,063
ways out of it.

1219
01:07:31,998 --> 01:07:33,758
I mean, I don't know if there is any

1220
01:07:33,758 --> 01:07:41,668
form of, I mean, we've never had a
system where the money just is so hard.

1221
01:07:42,368 --> 01:07:43,478
As Bitcoin is, right?

1222
01:07:43,668 --> 01:07:49,568
So I mean, when you really want to go on
that level, maybe Bitcoin is the first, is

1223
01:07:49,568 --> 01:07:52,638
our first chance for long term stability.

1224
01:07:52,998 --> 01:07:56,538
Because the interesting thing is that,
that without a central bank, without

1225
01:07:56,538 --> 01:08:00,852
inflation, without money printing,
you can, you can try stupid stuff, but

1226
01:08:00,902 --> 01:08:03,212
only for a very short amount of time.

1227
01:08:04,077 --> 01:08:07,657
While, um, with political money,
and this is exactly what, like,

1228
01:08:07,687 --> 01:08:09,127
when you look at MMT, right?

1229
01:08:09,247 --> 01:08:12,027
Uh, modern monetary theory, they,
they have their fans everywhere.

1230
01:08:12,027 --> 01:08:13,217
They have the fans in Germany.

1231
01:08:13,397 --> 01:08:13,767
Why?

1232
01:08:13,767 --> 01:08:18,417
Because the idea of having a 100 percent
political money, uh, that they can print

1233
01:08:18,417 --> 01:08:22,337
for whatever they want is for, for many
people is very, um, appealing, right?

1234
01:08:22,407 --> 01:08:26,513
If you don't, I mean, and this is
literally, it's literally uh, the line

1235
01:08:26,523 --> 01:08:29,283
between those who want to be productive.

1236
01:08:29,963 --> 01:08:34,073
And those who don't want to be productive,
those who want to be productive,

1237
01:08:34,083 --> 01:08:35,523
want a money that they can trust.

1238
01:08:35,793 --> 01:08:40,173
And those, uh, and the only money you can
trust is the money that nobody controls.

1239
01:08:40,233 --> 01:08:42,833
And those don't want to be
productive, want to control the money.

1240
01:08:44,013 --> 01:08:47,493
And this has been, I think, I
don't know if it's about democracy.

1241
01:08:47,493 --> 01:08:50,783
I don't even know if stability
is something that's very, very

1242
01:08:50,793 --> 01:08:54,967
like, it's like the discussion
about the volatility in Bitcoin.

1243
01:08:54,967 --> 01:08:56,667
I don't know if volatility is bad.

1244
01:08:57,697 --> 01:08:59,187
Volatility can also be a sign of life.

1245
01:08:59,237 --> 01:09:00,447
Stability is, I

1246
01:09:00,447 --> 01:09:02,537
chaos is a ladder sort of thing.

1247
01:09:03,127 --> 01:09:09,237
mean, if, if, if there is this, it's,
it's, it's an article I've read in a

1248
01:09:09,237 --> 01:09:13,527
newspaper maybe 15 years ago, but it
has stuck with me ever since it did.

1249
01:09:13,567 --> 01:09:19,147
It was a study or some sort of scientific,
uh, theory that, that basically a society

1250
01:09:19,147 --> 01:09:22,877
where that's totally stable, where
everybody knows everything and they know,

1251
01:09:22,937 --> 01:09:26,697
you know, what the future will bring,
whatever is, is, is, it's, it's, that's a

1252
01:09:26,817 --> 01:09:28,397
society that's going to collapse tomorrow.

1253
01:09:29,807 --> 01:09:33,777
And, and, and especially when you look
at the, at the history of Austria,

1254
01:09:33,777 --> 01:09:38,177
you look at our, at our history, our
empire, there was a society like that

1255
01:09:38,217 --> 01:09:42,267
after 200, 400 years, it was so old.

1256
01:09:42,307 --> 01:09:42,997
It's so.

1257
01:09:44,227 --> 01:09:45,247
set in its ways.

1258
01:09:45,757 --> 01:09:49,357
Everybody knew everything about their
life from the moment they were born,

1259
01:09:49,827 --> 01:09:51,557
and it just collapsed completely.

1260
01:09:51,847 --> 01:09:53,707
Never to be, to be seen again.

1261
01:09:54,167 --> 01:10:00,337
Um, so yeah, I mean, from a market
perspective, these things that

1262
01:10:00,337 --> 01:10:01,507
don't work need to collapse.

1263
01:10:02,277 --> 01:10:04,897
If we don't want, we don't want
them to go on if they don't work.

1264
01:10:05,257 --> 01:10:07,707
Um, and they're not going
to correct themselves.

1265
01:10:07,707 --> 01:10:09,857
I don't think that that's,
you know, Really in the

1266
01:10:09,857 --> 01:10:12,187
cards, especially not, like
you said, with fiat money.

1267
01:10:12,787 --> 01:10:14,207
So the metaphor

1268
01:10:14,267 --> 01:10:19,097
here is, uh, planes are not going to
stop dropping out to the sky until

1269
01:10:19,107 --> 01:10:20,847
Boeing runs out of business, right?

1270
01:10:21,580 --> 01:10:22,060
I don't know.

1271
01:10:22,060 --> 01:10:22,430
I don't know.

1272
01:10:22,430 --> 01:10:23,280
I don't want to talk, say

1273
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:24,320
anything about Boeing.

1274
01:10:24,820 --> 01:10:26,090
That's that they have lawyers.

1275
01:10:26,930 --> 01:10:28,670
I, I, and I don't, I don't know anything.

1276
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:30,220
disclaimer, that was a joke.

1277
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:30,610
Yeah,

1278
01:10:31,553 --> 01:10:32,103
satire.

1279
01:10:32,103 --> 01:10:33,303
No, I don't, I don't know anything.

1280
01:10:33,303 --> 01:10:35,143
I, I, uh, I,

1281
01:10:36,287 --> 01:10:37,797
Well, I think the funny

1282
01:10:37,797 --> 01:10:41,787
thing about the whole situation in
the EU and sort of coming from an

1283
01:10:41,797 --> 01:10:45,307
outsider's perspective a little bit
is that, I mean, the original promise

1284
01:10:45,307 --> 01:10:51,167
of the EU, right, which, which, as you
said, was to, to encourage relations

1285
01:10:51,277 --> 01:10:56,097
to avoid war, all this stuff, I
mean, it's, it's, it's noble goals.

1286
01:10:56,097 --> 01:10:59,167
And, and even to a certain extent,
at least the appearances that it was

1287
01:10:59,167 --> 01:11:03,067
supposed to make everything easier,
uh, freedom of people to move around

1288
01:11:03,067 --> 01:11:05,137
people for, for freedom to, to trade.

1289
01:11:05,137 --> 01:11:05,417
Right.

1290
01:11:05,417 --> 01:11:10,787
And, and, uh, there's nothing wrong
inherently with that goal, but then

1291
01:11:10,787 --> 01:11:12,987
it's, it's all the over regulation of it.

1292
01:11:12,997 --> 01:11:16,517
And, uh, uh, yeah, I mean,
pros and pros and cons.

1293
01:11:17,247 --> 01:11:18,517
Uh, I love living here, but,

1294
01:11:18,827 --> 01:11:19,867
I mean, to be fair,

1295
01:11:19,977 --> 01:11:25,827
to be fair, when we talk about socialist
policies, um, like the welfare state.

1296
01:11:27,472 --> 01:11:28,552
That's not an EU thing.

1297
01:11:29,722 --> 01:11:33,592
The EU does this on a, on a European level
where the rich countries have to pay for

1298
01:11:33,602 --> 01:11:36,862
the poor countries, which is something
we can talk about, but it's probably

1299
01:11:36,862 --> 01:11:41,012
something that's not a stupid idea if you
want to have a level playing field, right?

1300
01:11:41,012 --> 01:11:44,392
If you want to, if you, if you want
as Germany, if you want for your

1301
01:11:44,392 --> 01:11:48,872
goods to be To be bought by a market,

1302
01:11:48,892 --> 01:11:50,822
you have to build up that market.

1303
01:11:51,292 --> 01:11:53,037
but, but wait a minute, wait a minute.

1304
01:11:53,157 --> 01:11:53,457
Is

1305
01:11:54,177 --> 01:11:58,497
so, there's another way of looking at
that, and that is that the, uh, okay.

1306
01:11:58,502 --> 01:12:03,167
So Germany is making a lot of money
selling cars to Southern Europe, but in

1307
01:12:03,167 --> 01:12:08,687
order to afford the cars from Germany
germ, uh, the, the Southern European

1308
01:12:08,687 --> 01:12:14,507
countries have to receive a lot of EU
tax money from Germany to buy the cars.

1309
01:12:15,142 --> 01:12:20,962
So it's, it's, it's sort of a, it's
sort of all, all a char charade.

1310
01:12:21,262 --> 01:12:23,122
It's, it's, it's circling.

1311
01:12:23,762 --> 01:12:27,822
Stuff, and, and, there's no
clear market signal, it's, it's

1312
01:12:27,822 --> 01:12:30,672
basically the, uh, state state

1313
01:12:30,692 --> 01:12:32,252
controlled production of cars.

1314
01:12:32,612 --> 01:12:35,702
the real, the real problem
is that the cars are getting

1315
01:12:35,702 --> 01:12:36,122
shitty.

1316
01:12:36,858 --> 01:12:37,408
Of course.

1317
01:12:37,578 --> 01:12:41,508
and then, and then you pay money
to Southern Europe and they

1318
01:12:41,508 --> 01:12:45,098
turn around and buy cars from,
from, from the U S or China.

1319
01:12:45,818 --> 01:12:46,278
Yeah.

1320
01:12:46,733 --> 01:12:48,163
That's the real problem from the German

1321
01:12:48,478 --> 01:12:50,178
Because they don't want the Trabant.

1322
01:12:50,288 --> 01:12:50,778
Commie

1323
01:12:50,953 --> 01:12:53,743
They don't want the modern
version of the Trabant, they

1324
01:12:53,743 --> 01:12:54,753
don't want to get ripped off.

1325
01:12:55,233 --> 01:13:00,497
Um, but, I mean, what I mean
is like the idea, it's funny.

1326
01:13:00,597 --> 01:13:05,127
One of the reasons why the EU, why
the ECB might hate Bitcoin so much.

1327
01:13:05,842 --> 01:13:09,852
is that the idea of Bitcoin is
something that at some point was

1328
01:13:09,852 --> 01:13:11,912
actually the idea behind the euro.

1329
01:13:12,792 --> 01:13:17,802
So the, the first idea, like the
old idea of the euro was to have

1330
01:13:18,182 --> 01:13:21,162
a hard money for all of Europe.

1331
01:13:22,412 --> 01:13:29,807
And if you, if you overspend, You
have to cut down on overspending.

1332
01:13:29,817 --> 01:13:33,247
You have to, um, cut down on
the, on the welfare state, on

1333
01:13:33,247 --> 01:13:34,417
the, on the size of the state.

1334
01:13:34,417 --> 01:13:42,137
So the idea was to basically turn all of
Europe into a hard money Deutschmark zone.

1335
01:13:43,097 --> 01:13:45,527
That was the, at least that's
what they, what, what the

1336
01:13:45,597 --> 01:13:46,917
architects of the Euro were doing.

1337
01:13:48,427 --> 01:13:48,977
started out

1338
01:13:48,977 --> 01:13:49,317
doing.

1339
01:13:50,547 --> 01:13:53,507
And then of course that failed,

1340
01:13:55,437 --> 01:13:56,027
that failed.

1341
01:13:56,197 --> 01:13:58,667
Um, and now it's, it's the opposite.

1342
01:13:58,857 --> 01:14:03,057
Now it's the, it's, it's
the, the, the European lira.

1343
01:14:03,547 --> 01:14:05,227
You just, you just print money, whatever.

1344
01:14:06,317 --> 01:14:10,617
Um, and, and this is not
gonna go, not gonna work.

1345
01:14:10,697 --> 01:14:11,687
It's not gonna go well.

1346
01:14:11,747 --> 01:14:13,977
Um, but of course, Bitcoin could do that.

1347
01:14:14,167 --> 01:14:19,317
Bitcoin could, you know, uh, introduce
that game theory and, and, and

1348
01:14:19,587 --> 01:14:21,787
introduce true costs on everything.

1349
01:14:22,307 --> 01:14:24,157
And yeah, I mean, you're right.

1350
01:14:24,357 --> 01:14:28,007
Um, I'm not trying to
argue that it worked.

1351
01:14:28,527 --> 01:14:32,497
What I'm trying to argue is that
there are some elements of the EU

1352
01:14:32,497 --> 01:14:34,347
that I don't think are horrible.

1353
01:14:34,347 --> 01:14:39,797
And like, like Luke said, some
of the ideas were worthwhile.

1354
01:14:40,647 --> 01:14:43,927
It's just that something that
really bothers me is that to

1355
01:14:43,927 --> 01:14:50,537
this day, Austria has only joined
the EU in 1995, which is What?

1356
01:14:50,957 --> 01:14:53,577
10, 20, 30 years ago.

1357
01:14:54,620 --> 01:14:58,530
and to this day, there's no political
debate about anything that's going on

1358
01:14:58,530 --> 01:15:03,960
in Brussels and anything that's going
on, on a, on a, on a European level.

1359
01:15:04,620 --> 01:15:08,550
And this is really, really a big problem
because you do have that in the US.

1360
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:12,550
I know that the debate is extremely
superficial and stupid, but it's

1361
01:15:12,740 --> 01:15:14,330
still, at least it's existing.

1362
01:15:14,970 --> 01:15:18,430
Uh, in, in Europe, it's basically.

1363
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:22,210
Um, and, and, That's really a problem.

1364
01:15:22,250 --> 01:15:22,980
We don't have it.

1365
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:25,740
You're basically, you said democracy.

1366
01:15:25,830 --> 01:15:27,460
We don't have a European democracy.

1367
01:15:28,090 --> 01:15:34,893
We have some sort of technocratic,
pseudo socialist state in Brussels.

1368
01:15:34,933 --> 01:15:40,347
I mean, even the, the, the, what's the
title of the, of the, what's it called?

1369
01:15:40,347 --> 01:15:42,047
What's it, it's a Kommissar, right?

1370
01:15:43,227 --> 01:15:46,727
They are, like, literally they're using
the same words in the Soviet Union.

1371
01:15:46,877 --> 01:15:47,947
The Kommissar.

1372
01:15:48,167 --> 01:15:48,677
in English.

1373
01:15:48,677 --> 01:15:48,747
I

1374
01:15:48,867 --> 01:15:49,707
commissioner, right?

1375
01:15:49,747 --> 01:15:50,727
Yeah, yeah, yeah, commissioner.

1376
01:15:51,027 --> 01:15:51,437
It's commissioner.

1377
01:15:51,447 --> 01:15:56,557
And the commissioner, and then there's
the, there's the, Uh, uh, the Rat,

1378
01:15:57,027 --> 01:15:58,867
that's the council, or the Soviet.

1379
01:16:00,015 --> 01:16:01,305
Tsar is like

1380
01:16:01,365 --> 01:16:04,915
worst of both worlds
from old Russia, right?

1381
01:16:05,525 --> 01:16:07,135
You're a Commie Tsar.

1382
01:16:07,290 --> 01:16:07,680
yeah.

1383
01:16:08,485 --> 01:16:09,180
. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1384
01:16:09,890 --> 01:16:10,160
yeah.

1385
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:14,090
So I, I don't wanna defend you, but I
also don't wanna say like, it's all bad.

1386
01:16:14,210 --> 01:16:16,130
It's like the traveling is nice.

1387
01:16:16,370 --> 01:16:18,540
The, the roaming is good.

1388
01:16:18,540 --> 01:16:20,670
Is that like, I don't have
to pay when I go to Sweden.

1389
01:16:20,670 --> 01:16:22,860
I don't have to pay
extraordinary amounts of money.

1390
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:24,750
You know this, but that's
small stuff, right?

1391
01:16:24,900 --> 01:16:30,090
You could do that in other ways, but,
and the euro as at least on, like

1392
01:16:30,210 --> 01:16:33,510
having one currency in all countries,
of course that's, that's a good thing.

1393
01:16:33,510 --> 01:16:35,220
But we will have that with bitcoin.

1394
01:16:35,900 --> 01:16:36,320
Everywhere

1395
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:37,200
in the world, basically.

1396
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:38,460
So we don't need the Euro for that.

1397
01:16:39,148 --> 01:16:40,818
But still, like all the

1398
01:16:40,818 --> 01:16:46,748
good things about Europe, about
the EU, like open borders and, uh,

1399
01:16:46,988 --> 01:16:51,168
you know, being able to phone other
European countries without being,

1400
01:16:51,168 --> 01:16:53,088
uh, having to pay enormous sums.

1401
01:16:53,478 --> 01:16:56,558
All of those things are
really just tearing down.

1402
01:16:57,073 --> 01:17:01,683
Old, bad government decisions, like
putting the border up there in the first

1403
01:17:01,693 --> 01:17:06,203
place and not letting people in who could
pay for themselves, or, uh, you know,

1404
01:17:06,543 --> 01:17:13,003
making phone, uh, networks national and
making it more expensive to call abroad.

1405
01:17:13,053 --> 01:17:18,973
So, so there, all the good parts are
effectively just, uh, the abandonment

1406
01:17:18,993 --> 01:17:21,663
of old, bad government decisions.

1407
01:17:22,265 --> 01:17:28,855
And if the EU could have stayed that way
and just been an institution that takes

1408
01:17:28,855 --> 01:17:34,765
away stupid stuff, uh, that governments
did, then, then it would be great.

1409
01:17:35,265 --> 01:17:39,920
But it became a bureaucratic Uh,
institution in its own right.

1410
01:17:39,950 --> 01:17:45,280
And now it's like the internet rules
are ridiculous with the accept cookies,

1411
01:17:45,350 --> 01:17:50,130
which costs so much in extra effort
and time from, for every internet

1412
01:17:50,130 --> 01:17:54,740
developer that has, that wants even
a chance to operate in Europe and the

1413
01:17:54,740 --> 01:18:00,120
GDPR and all this stuff that is sold to
us, like being for our protection and

1414
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:04,900
stuff, it's, it's just bullshit, like
that people, uh, take responsibility

1415
01:18:04,910 --> 01:18:06,030
for their own actions.

1416
01:18:06,260 --> 01:18:06,820
It's bullshit.

1417
01:18:06,830 --> 01:18:07,610
No, I, I

1418
01:18:07,610 --> 01:18:11,650
agree 100 percent and I just
remembered it's a long, long time

1419
01:18:11,650 --> 01:18:14,700
ago, but it was already in my phase
of reading Austrian economics.

1420
01:18:14,700 --> 01:18:15,990
I actually, I went to Brussels.

1421
01:18:15,990 --> 01:18:17,100
I went to the EU parliament.

1422
01:18:17,100 --> 01:18:24,270
I don't know in what capacity it was some
sort of, um, journalist press press trip.

1423
01:18:24,270 --> 01:18:24,540
Right.

1424
01:18:25,630 --> 01:18:29,060
Um, but I did bring a
Mises book on bureaucracy.

1425
01:18:29,430 --> 01:18:31,790
Um, and I actually read
that in the EU parliament.

1426
01:18:31,820 --> 01:18:34,480
Um, and I think it, it,
it explains everything.

1427
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:39,780
It's just that, you know, we talked
about, we talked about not putting

1428
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:45,050
too much energy into the stuff
that you, that you, um, don't like.

1429
01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:45,380
Right.

1430
01:18:45,480 --> 01:18:48,570
So I don't really know what
to do about the EU, honestly.

1431
01:18:48,670 --> 01:18:57,713
Um, I, I think that certain freedoms
need to be, um, um, guarded, especially

1432
01:18:58,128 --> 01:19:02,208
Traveling, something that during the
pandemic was, um, restricted as well.

1433
01:19:02,778 --> 01:19:07,498
Uh, so basically when, when, when
Lagarde talks about the escape, right?

1434
01:19:08,028 --> 01:19:09,528
The escapes needs to be open.

1435
01:19:09,908 --> 01:19:10,808
That's important.

1436
01:19:10,808 --> 01:19:17,718
If, if, if like the worst case would
be, you cannot even leave the EU

1437
01:19:17,718 --> 01:19:18,748
anymore, right?

1438
01:19:18,918 --> 01:19:19,758
You have to stay.

1439
01:19:20,558 --> 01:19:21,958
That's what's happening in Canada.

1440
01:19:22,968 --> 01:19:25,608
They're enforcing an exit tax now.

1441
01:19:26,208 --> 01:19:28,278
Like, uh, a ridiculous amount.

1442
01:19:28,518 --> 01:19:30,388
What was it, like, 250,

1443
01:19:30,418 --> 01:19:31,388
000 or something?

1444
01:19:31,978 --> 01:19:32,458
That's, it's,

1445
01:19:32,778 --> 01:19:37,068
that's first, uh, that's been
debunked apparently, and it was

1446
01:19:37,068 --> 01:19:40,868
25, 000, and in Canadian money,
that's a lot for Canadians, but

1447
01:19:40,878 --> 01:19:44,608
that's really like, only like 300,
so that's, so that's, it's nothing.

1448
01:19:45,208 --> 01:19:45,838
Oh, really?

1449
01:19:45,978 --> 01:19:46,388
Okay.

1450
01:19:46,568 --> 01:19:47,278
Okay, okay.

1451
01:19:47,358 --> 01:19:47,828
Yeah, yeah.

1452
01:19:48,088 --> 01:19:50,268
Thanks for debunking it.

1453
01:19:50,268 --> 01:19:55,988
Still, uh, Yeah, I, uh, when I went
to Brussels, which was my toll ship

1454
01:19:55,988 --> 01:19:59,858
days and, and with the high school
students, the thing that struck me was

1455
01:19:59,888 --> 01:20:05,938
the luxurious nature of the lobbyists
hotels, like the, the, the whole, the

1456
01:20:05,938 --> 01:20:12,358
whole part of Brussels that was dedicated
to lobbyism and how, like the corruption

1457
01:20:12,358 --> 01:20:19,523
is just, uh, it's just So weird, like,
or it makes perfect sense because like,

1458
01:20:19,903 --> 01:20:21,183
feed off each other, right?

1459
01:20:21,435 --> 01:20:22,545
We haven't even talked about

1460
01:20:22,955 --> 01:20:23,595
the fact that.

1461
01:20:24,215 --> 01:20:27,055
Yes, it's socialist, but it's
also corporatist in a way

1462
01:20:27,105 --> 01:20:29,175
that's like the GDPR, right?

1463
01:20:29,235 --> 01:20:33,115
Stupid GDPR is like, like you
have an idea for a startup.

1464
01:20:33,115 --> 01:20:34,705
It could be the next Amazon.

1465
01:20:34,735 --> 01:20:37,855
Oh shit, but you can't even start it
up because you cannot afford this GDPR.

1466
01:20:38,545 --> 01:20:42,145
But this company, the big company,
so that's of course, but that's

1467
01:20:42,145 --> 01:20:43,185
the same thing that's happening

1468
01:20:43,185 --> 01:20:43,715
in the US.

1469
01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:44,200
yeah.

1470
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:44,780
Artificial

1471
01:20:44,830 --> 01:20:49,610
monopolies, uh, through intellectual
property laws and other stupid stuff,

1472
01:20:49,610 --> 01:20:53,310
they just put up these barriers
to entry, which is effectively

1473
01:20:53,310 --> 01:20:54,750
what the lockdowns did as well.

1474
01:20:54,810 --> 01:20:57,740
You know, just kill the smaller
companies and we can, we can

1475
01:20:57,740 --> 01:21:00,030
grab, we do a big land grab

1476
01:21:00,050 --> 01:21:00,310
here.

1477
01:21:00,795 --> 01:21:03,035
And that's, of course,
that goes to, that, that

1478
01:21:03,035 --> 01:21:07,585
leads to some sort of, you
know, communist whatever.

1479
01:21:07,975 --> 01:21:12,325
It's, it's, it's, even with the
digital euro, you know, what's the

1480
01:21:12,325 --> 01:21:16,185
fifth point of the communist manifesto
is there's only one bank, right?

1481
01:21:16,235 --> 01:21:17,605
And it's the state bank.

1482
01:21:18,155 --> 01:21:21,005
Well, that's why the bank, that's
why the banks are nervous about the

1483
01:21:21,005 --> 01:21:24,145
digital euro, because with digital euro,
you can finally just drop the banks.

1484
01:21:24,965 --> 01:21:26,205
You don't need the banks anymore.

1485
01:21:26,725 --> 01:21:28,825
Um, when they fuck up,
you can just say, okay.

1486
01:21:29,405 --> 01:21:30,745
We're not printing any money for you.

1487
01:21:30,755 --> 01:21:33,735
We're just using the, we're just
using the digital euro to safeguard

1488
01:21:33,805 --> 01:21:35,295
the deposits and the bank can go.

1489
01:21:35,785 --> 01:21:37,455
And then of course you
centralize it even more.

1490
01:21:37,455 --> 01:21:38,545
So there is centralization.

1491
01:21:38,785 --> 01:21:41,805
I think centralization, it doesn't
matter if it's socialist or

1492
01:21:41,805 --> 01:21:45,125
capitalist or whatever, it's fiat
centralization that we have to fight

1493
01:21:45,565 --> 01:21:48,005
and that we have to, guard against.

1494
01:21:48,005 --> 01:21:53,795
And, and Bitcoin is a very important tool
and, and the entrepreneurial stuff that's

1495
01:21:53,795 --> 01:22:00,665
happening in Bitcoin happens in a world
that is not so much by, by these, by

1496
01:22:00,665 --> 01:22:03,205
these, you know, old style governments.

1497
01:22:03,275 --> 01:22:06,565
And I do believe in the, still believe
in the, did you read, do you guys

1498
01:22:06,565 --> 01:22:08,255
read the, the sovereign individual?

1499
01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:09,600
absolutely.

1500
01:22:09,670 --> 01:22:10,130
Love it.

1501
01:22:10,475 --> 01:22:13,015
So I do, I do believe
in that thesis still.

1502
01:22:13,245 --> 01:22:17,615
Um, and, and I, I see it playing out
in very, in various different ways.

1503
01:22:17,665 --> 01:22:20,265
And I do see positives and
it's not just negatives.

1504
01:22:20,315 --> 01:22:23,435
There's many things to be hopeful
about and many things like there's

1505
01:22:23,975 --> 01:22:28,235
these things that we talked about now,
the, the, the fiat system, the EU,

1506
01:22:28,275 --> 01:22:32,805
even the, the, the American system
to an extent, they're so broken.

1507
01:22:33,500 --> 01:22:35,040
And they're so far gone.

1508
01:22:35,210 --> 01:22:39,590
Um, and yeah, I mean, we, we started
out talking about the Soviet Union.

1509
01:22:39,590 --> 01:22:44,760
It doesn't matter if it's communist
or they are so bureaucratic and so

1510
01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:48,340
corrupt and so far gone that the
only thing they can do is collapse.

1511
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:52,510
It's not, they're not, they're never
going to just reform themselves.

1512
01:22:53,170 --> 01:22:55,690
It's just gonna, you know, collab.

1513
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:58,380
What's the, what's the movie
now that that's in theaters?

1514
01:22:58,440 --> 01:22:59,260
I want to see it.

1515
01:22:59,330 --> 01:23:00,140
Civil War.

1516
01:23:00,610 --> 01:23:00,930
Right.

1517
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:03,890
They're already having movies
in America about, about,

1518
01:23:03,940 --> 01:23:05,580
about America falling apart.

1519
01:23:05,995 --> 01:23:06,895
but apparently

1520
01:23:06,895 --> 01:23:13,515
it's not very, uh, uh, uh, it's not a
very likely war they're depicting because

1521
01:23:13,625 --> 01:23:19,435
in, in that movie, Texas and California
are fighting the other states together.

1522
01:23:19,505 --> 01:23:21,345
And that's not how America works.

1523
01:23:21,345 --> 01:23:27,105
Like, well, anyway,

1524
01:23:27,845 --> 01:23:28,745
uh, you

1525
01:23:28,745 --> 01:23:30,495
just, you have to
enlighten me on something.

1526
01:23:30,505 --> 01:23:32,915
How did you, how did
you make it to Brussels?

1527
01:23:32,915 --> 01:23:34,525
I was pretty sure that it's

1528
01:23:34,845 --> 01:23:35,475
inland.

1529
01:23:36,475 --> 01:23:36,875
yeah, yeah.

1530
01:23:36,875 --> 01:23:39,305
We took a train, you know.

1531
01:23:39,855 --> 01:23:44,705
We, we didn't go by, by, uh,
with the tall ship to Brussels.

1532
01:23:44,705 --> 01:23:45,635
That's not what happened.

1533
01:23:45,825 --> 01:23:47,285
We were in Antwerp, I believe,

1534
01:23:47,635 --> 01:23:49,255
oh, okay, okay, well, you were

1535
01:23:49,385 --> 01:23:49,405
it

1536
01:23:49,435 --> 01:23:49,515
to use,

1537
01:23:49,655 --> 01:23:50,265
a bus.

1538
01:23:50,565 --> 01:23:57,285
So yeah, yeah, yeah, that, uh, there,
there was a lot of tide that year.

1539
01:23:59,835 --> 01:24:00,615
tide was high,

1540
01:24:01,077 --> 01:24:02,917
And one thing, one thing that's

1541
01:24:02,927 --> 01:24:08,447
really, really horrible about the EU
is the whole united and strength from

1542
01:24:08,447 --> 01:24:10,497
diversity, but we hate diversity.

1543
01:24:12,352 --> 01:24:15,212
But there's so much talk about
diversity, but it's only a word.

1544
01:24:15,502 --> 01:24:17,652
It's not like there's
no diversity of thought.

1545
01:24:17,652 --> 01:24:20,862
There's no, and especially if
there's diversity in nationality

1546
01:24:20,862 --> 01:24:23,052
and history, people don't want that.

1547
01:24:23,122 --> 01:24:23,432
Right.

1548
01:24:23,932 --> 01:24:26,792
Even though that's like the
decentralized nature of Europe

1549
01:24:26,852 --> 01:24:28,652
would be our biggest strength.

1550
01:26:07,390 --> 01:26:09,210
So, so I, if I recall

1551
01:26:09,210 --> 01:26:12,200
correctly, the, the lockdowns
were really horrible in Austria.

1552
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:17,710
Uh, and you had to wear, like,
a star to show that you were

1553
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:20,060
vaccinated, or something very,

1554
01:26:20,070 --> 01:26:22,030
very akin to the World War II.

1555
01:26:22,390 --> 01:26:23,450
So the problem is here.

1556
01:26:23,450 --> 01:26:24,020
The problem is

1557
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:27,360
that, that you shouldn't believe
what you read in media, right?

1558
01:26:27,660 --> 01:26:30,820
If I believe what I read, read
in the media about Sweden, it's

1559
01:26:30,820 --> 01:26:33,590
like, you can't leave your house
without getting shot by some gang.

1560
01:26:33,910 --> 01:26:35,990
Well, there's some truth,
a pinch of truth to it.

1561
01:26:36,993 --> 01:26:38,533
the thing with, with, with.

1562
01:26:39,178 --> 01:26:44,238
It is something that really, really, uh,
has been like, people have been telling

1563
01:26:44,238 --> 01:26:45,408
me about this all the time, right?

1564
01:26:46,758 --> 01:26:51,670
The pandemic or the lockdowns in Austria,
it's the, like I said at the beginning,

1565
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:56,570
yes, they sent out the press release that
there will be, uh, mandatory vaccinations,

1566
01:26:56,770 --> 01:27:00,580
but in the, in the second they did
that, nobody, like everybody else just

1567
01:27:00,610 --> 01:27:01,880
said that they're never going to do it.

1568
01:27:02,100 --> 01:27:03,160
You know, nobody believed it.

1569
01:27:03,380 --> 01:27:08,140
And even if, you know, even if people
who didn't want to get vaccinated already

1570
01:27:08,140 --> 01:27:10,820
had fake vaccination passports anyway.

1571
01:27:11,355 --> 01:27:11,655
Right.

1572
01:27:12,105 --> 01:27:17,815
So actually, to be honest, that story,
I mean, it was never as, never as

1573
01:27:17,815 --> 01:27:19,605
bad as, as, as it was in Germany.

1574
01:27:19,825 --> 01:27:25,385
When I went to, I went to Zitadelle
2021, like the first Bitcoin maximalist

1575
01:27:25,455 --> 01:27:30,495
Zitadelle in Eastern Germany, we had
the Ordnungsamt, which is like the,

1576
01:27:30,925 --> 01:27:34,595
not, not, not the police, but the people
who are like dressed like the police,

1577
01:27:34,595 --> 01:27:39,085
but they don't have guns, but they look
like they are supposed to be looking at,

1578
01:27:39,475 --> 01:27:41,195
are you all like abiding by the rules?

1579
01:27:41,195 --> 01:27:41,475
Right.

1580
01:27:41,810 --> 01:27:43,500
And if you don't, they
call the real police.

1581
01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:44,900
We don't even have that in Austria.

1582
01:27:45,160 --> 01:27:48,640
They were there within, within
20 minutes to see if we were

1583
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:50,180
wearing our masks, right?

1584
01:27:50,860 --> 01:27:53,990
So I'm not saying there
haven't been gross overreach.

1585
01:27:54,040 --> 01:27:56,956
I'm not saying there haven't
been stupid, um, uh, incidents.

1586
01:27:57,236 --> 01:28:02,246
I'm not saying that there haven't been
stupid police men or women who abused

1587
01:28:02,246 --> 01:28:06,603
their power during the pandemic, but
the story of Austria being, Going

1588
01:28:06,603 --> 01:28:11,473
down the route of a fascist hellhole
is it's, it wasn't like outside of

1589
01:28:11,473 --> 01:28:12,753
the big cities, the pandemic never

1590
01:28:12,753 --> 01:28:13,553
happened, basically.

1591
01:28:14,573 --> 01:28:15,773
Uh, that's good to know, that's

1592
01:28:15,773 --> 01:28:16,653
very reassuring.

1593
01:28:16,653 --> 01:28:19,993
It's like, uh, okay, I'm not
saying this, I'm not saying that,

1594
01:28:20,073 --> 01:28:21,763
but I am saying that Germany was

1595
01:28:21,763 --> 01:28:22,303
far worse.

1596
01:28:23,543 --> 01:28:24,043
I mean,

1597
01:28:24,863 --> 01:28:28,033
as far as I know, I haven't seen,
like, I haven't been in every,

1598
01:28:28,163 --> 01:28:29,883
every point, you know what I mean?

1599
01:28:29,883 --> 01:28:30,183
Right.

1600
01:28:30,263 --> 01:28:37,520
Um, but, but, and honestly, I think that
the lockdowns For a lack of a better

1601
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:40,990
word, I think that they have woken
more people up than, than they have,

1602
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:43,330
like, succeeded in, in controlling.

1603
01:28:44,032 --> 01:28:48,032
there is, there is still, like,
people who are clearly damaged,

1604
01:28:48,382 --> 01:28:51,962
and still, like, there's still
people running around with masks.

1605
01:28:52,982 --> 01:28:53,282
Okay.

1606
01:28:54,522 --> 01:28:55,082
not many.

1607
01:28:55,802 --> 01:29:01,253
Um, and, and there is a, there is a,
there is a story here for Bitcoin as well.

1608
01:29:01,253 --> 01:29:06,363
It's like, I saw this on, on, on
some Austrian newspapers, like, was

1609
01:29:06,363 --> 01:29:09,273
a question, the comment section is
like, so when does the pandemic end?

1610
01:29:10,233 --> 01:29:10,593
You know?

1611
01:29:10,843 --> 01:29:13,733
And the first, the first answer
was, well, the pandemic ends when

1612
01:29:13,733 --> 01:29:17,413
nobody in the bus is wearing masks
anymore, regardless of the mandates.

1613
01:29:18,393 --> 01:29:18,733
You know?

1614
01:29:19,293 --> 01:29:20,573
And this is exactly what happened.

1615
01:29:21,239 --> 01:29:27,239
when I stopped, when I stopped wearing
the masks, even though officially

1616
01:29:27,259 --> 01:29:28,629
in Vienna, you still had to wear it.

1617
01:29:29,079 --> 01:29:32,749
You just sit down, you just sit down
with, with, with a couple of other

1618
01:29:32,749 --> 01:29:35,569
young guys who were not wearing masks
and nobody would ever say anything.

1619
01:29:35,919 --> 01:29:41,339
It's, it's, but yeah, I mean, I wasn't
very openly political about any of

1620
01:29:41,389 --> 01:29:45,179
this because I was, I too, I was
scared in the beginning, at least.

1621
01:29:46,539 --> 01:29:47,039
I don't know.

1622
01:29:47,229 --> 01:29:51,139
But, but I think that
many people learned a lot.

1623
01:29:51,564 --> 01:29:55,174
And I think that the whole, we wouldn't
be sitting here doing this podcast

1624
01:29:55,254 --> 01:29:57,784
on some sort of Zoom thing without

1625
01:29:57,784 --> 01:29:59,084
the whole pandemic thing.

1626
01:30:00,140 --> 01:30:00,750
Very true.

1627
01:30:01,675 --> 01:30:02,445
No, and

1628
01:30:02,615 --> 01:30:07,075
that's a great point, and we
talk about that all the time,

1629
01:30:07,075 --> 01:30:08,545
like the interconnectedness.

1630
01:30:08,545 --> 01:30:11,675
We do this pod remotely from
two different countries.

1631
01:30:12,375 --> 01:30:17,815
Usually our guest is in a third the
whole time, and lots of positives

1632
01:30:17,815 --> 01:30:23,060
to take from the last years for
those of us who have been in there.

1633
01:30:23,510 --> 01:30:25,330
seen what's been going on.

1634
01:30:25,330 --> 01:30:31,610
And I just kind of wanted to get your
take on on sort of a related point here.

1635
01:30:33,280 --> 01:30:38,550
Because we've we've maybe unintentionally
spent a lot of time on the doom and gloom

1636
01:30:38,570 --> 01:30:42,190
of it all for most of this conversation,
but it started pretty, pretty upbeat

1637
01:30:42,190 --> 01:30:43,780
and optimistic and bullish and all this.

1638
01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:48,430
I'm curious about what's
what's going on in your world?

1639
01:30:48,430 --> 01:30:54,800
Like, what are you optimistic about in
Bitcoin in general, but maybe maybe our

1640
01:30:55,350 --> 01:30:58,270
audience is less familiar with what's
going on in the German speaking world.

1641
01:30:58,300 --> 01:30:59,510
So yeah, what what are you

1642
01:30:59,510 --> 01:31:00,890
optimistic about these days?

1643
01:31:01,965 --> 01:31:04,475
So what's really interesting is

1644
01:31:05,055 --> 01:31:06,845
like, that's what I said
at the beginning, right?

1645
01:31:06,885 --> 01:31:10,135
I've been doing my, my, my
YouTube channel, my podcast for

1646
01:31:10,195 --> 01:31:11,475
about two and a half years now.

1647
01:31:11,475 --> 01:31:11,705
Right.

1648
01:31:12,375 --> 01:31:22,348
Um, and I have all like grossing downloads
on, on, um, uh, if, if I add audio and

1649
01:31:22,348 --> 01:31:26,678
video together a month, about a hundred.

1650
01:31:27,028 --> 01:31:31,728
20 to 150, 000 downloads
each month, right?

1651
01:31:32,598 --> 01:31:38,168
That puts me after two and a
half years, puts me easily into

1652
01:31:38,168 --> 01:31:42,288
the top 10 podcasts in Austria.

1653
01:31:44,238 --> 01:31:45,788
I don't know the numbers.

1654
01:31:45,838 --> 01:31:49,808
I don't know the numbers for Germany,
but we have thousands of podcasts.

1655
01:31:49,818 --> 01:31:53,268
So there's been a podcast award
here done by the state radio.

1656
01:31:53,618 --> 01:31:57,968
There's 1, 300 podcasts nominated
for this award only for Austria.

1657
01:31:58,698 --> 01:32:00,248
So, uh, so there's two.

1658
01:32:00,618 --> 01:32:02,288
Like, there's two
possible reasons for this.

1659
01:32:03,248 --> 01:32:07,118
Reason one is because I'm
just an awesome guy, right?

1660
01:32:07,408 --> 01:32:08,958
That's, that's one possibility.

1661
01:32:08,958 --> 01:32:13,918
And I don't want to, I don't want to
count it out, but I think that the

1662
01:32:14,108 --> 01:32:19,558
second option is more likely that
Bitcoin as a topic touches so many

1663
01:32:19,588 --> 01:32:21,178
people in so many different ways.

1664
01:32:21,843 --> 01:32:27,053
Inflation, freedom, um, self
determination, control over your own

1665
01:32:27,053 --> 01:32:34,893
life, savings, um, and even down to the
energy stuff that, that there's basically

1666
01:32:34,923 --> 01:32:36,573
some, something in there for anyone.

1667
01:32:37,253 --> 01:32:47,233
And really think that people come
for the number go up probably most of

1668
01:32:47,233 --> 01:32:50,343
them, but they stay for the optimism.

1669
01:32:51,693 --> 01:32:52,773
And this is what I did.

1670
01:32:53,753 --> 01:32:55,173
When I went to Cittadella.

1671
01:32:55,728 --> 01:32:59,048
I knew immediately that I want to
do this, what I'm doing right now,

1672
01:32:59,048 --> 01:33:02,628
because I knew that in the German
speaking world back then, it was

1673
01:33:02,628 --> 01:33:04,788
still smaller than it is today.

1674
01:33:05,518 --> 01:33:06,628
And I knew that I could do it.

1675
01:33:06,648 --> 01:33:09,578
Like with my background as a journalist,
I knew that I could, I could be the,

1676
01:33:09,588 --> 01:33:13,458
basically, basically I was listening
to Peter McCormick all the time.

1677
01:33:13,488 --> 01:33:16,058
And I said, okay, I can do
the same thing in German.

1678
01:33:16,768 --> 01:33:18,858
That's, that's basically
that, that's my business plan.

1679
01:33:18,888 --> 01:33:25,670
That's, And, and it worked and it worked
because, because there is a growing number

1680
01:33:25,670 --> 01:33:31,610
of people who, for many different reasons,
want something different and Bitcoin is,

1681
01:33:31,730 --> 01:33:35,980
that's what I, what we talked about, um,
when we talked about the Soviet Union,

1682
01:33:36,230 --> 01:33:43,290
Bitcoin is this, this Other thing that
this, this, this thing that promises for

1683
01:33:43,290 --> 01:33:45,060
lack of a better word, a better future.

1684
01:33:45,290 --> 01:33:46,880
Like there is some hope there, right?

1685
01:33:46,920 --> 01:33:50,300
And there's optimism and there
is, there is, um, fun to be had.

1686
01:33:50,370 --> 01:33:53,080
There's so who's having
fun anymore, right?

1687
01:33:53,110 --> 01:33:59,520
It's like, uh, there's, there's, when was
the last time you saw a funny TV show?

1688
01:34:01,665 --> 01:34:02,035
Right.

1689
01:34:02,675 --> 01:34:03,185
Um,

1690
01:34:03,420 --> 01:34:04,330
Yeah, there's nothing.

1691
01:34:04,575 --> 01:34:07,335
what's in like the last, I think
the last thing that was funny

1692
01:34:07,575 --> 01:34:11,545
was Parks and Recreation and only
because it had Ron Swanson, right.

1693
01:34:12,705 --> 01:34:14,315
And that's like 10 years ago.

1694
01:34:14,745 --> 01:34:20,365
So, so, and then this is
something that's really helping.

1695
01:34:20,365 --> 01:34:24,815
And then you see the power of
memes and the power of, of, of, of

1696
01:34:25,015 --> 01:34:32,825
humor combining with, with real,
like, um, real, uh, Um, topics.

1697
01:34:32,885 --> 01:34:35,385
And, and one of the reasons
why I think that podcasts,

1698
01:34:37,545 --> 01:34:42,265
about are so successful is that Bitcoin
also, it's very attractive to very,

1699
01:34:42,265 --> 01:34:44,555
very smart people and very different.

1700
01:34:44,565 --> 01:34:49,685
Like I can have a 26 year old
and a 84 year old and do like

1701
01:34:49,735 --> 01:34:52,975
two episodes from two different,
completely different points of view.

1702
01:34:53,375 --> 01:34:56,605
Um, it's so interesting to
meet these people, right?

1703
01:34:56,605 --> 01:34:59,265
I see Bitcoin very much as
a social network as well.

1704
01:34:59,840 --> 01:35:05,280
Um, and, and, um, and there's so
much like positivity because you

1705
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:07,290
have a tool now that you can use.

1706
01:35:07,360 --> 01:35:13,160
And, and many, many people who have been
unhappy with the way things have been

1707
01:35:13,160 --> 01:35:18,770
going have been, you know, conditioned
to a world where there's been lots

1708
01:35:18,770 --> 01:35:21,250
of complaints, but no real solution.

1709
01:35:22,440 --> 01:35:25,620
now we have to learn, okay, there
is a solution, but we always

1710
01:35:25,620 --> 01:35:28,290
thought that the solution would
be the government does something

1711
01:35:28,290 --> 01:35:30,560
different, does something differently.

1712
01:35:31,160 --> 01:35:33,000
No, the solution is we
do something different.

1713
01:35:33,450 --> 01:35:34,260
We have to do it.

1714
01:35:34,670 --> 01:35:36,350
Um, and that's the only way it can do.

1715
01:35:36,490 --> 01:35:41,390
So the only way to, to fix the
EU and to fix your own, your own

1716
01:35:41,390 --> 01:35:44,630
country and to fix your, your
city is you have to do something.

1717
01:35:44,830 --> 01:35:49,060
You have to, to, and Bitcoin
is the perfect, the perfect,

1718
01:35:49,900 --> 01:35:51,820
um, basis to start this.

1719
01:35:52,350 --> 01:35:55,900
Because it's an actual basis and,
and, and we, we, we literally like

1720
01:35:55,910 --> 01:36:00,312
why is Bitcoin so successful as,
as, as a, as a social network,

1721
01:36:00,312 --> 01:36:02,440
because we literally share values.

1722
01:36:03,600 --> 01:36:07,130
Not just in a, in a metaphorical sense,
because we think this and that, no,

1723
01:36:07,180 --> 01:36:09,340
we, we, we share the value of Bitcoin.

1724
01:36:09,370 --> 01:36:15,600
We, we, we agreed that one of the, of the,
of the magic internet meme money coins

1725
01:36:15,650 --> 01:36:18,510
is now, uh, almost 60, 000 euros, right?

1726
01:36:18,950 --> 01:36:25,060
So we can, we are willing to
sell two, like not buy two cars.

1727
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:27,130
And instead we buy a number on the screen.

1728
01:36:28,460 --> 01:36:31,000
It's actually, when you, when
you, when you think about

1729
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:32,340
it like that, it's totally,

1730
01:36:32,510 --> 01:36:33,370
totally crazy.

1731
01:36:34,535 --> 01:36:35,445
Niko, my friend,

1732
01:36:35,925 --> 01:36:41,365
those are, that's a perfect rant to end
this episode on, I think, uh, because

1733
01:36:41,465 --> 01:36:45,925
like, it's also like the main thesis
of the book we're currently writing.

1734
01:36:46,195 --> 01:36:49,075
So the mind meld of
Bitcoiners is a real thing.

1735
01:36:49,075 --> 01:36:55,115
I think we're so aligned and that's why
we enjoy each other's company so much.

1736
01:36:55,165 --> 01:37:00,105
And, uh, as you say, the optimism is
there because we are the shared value.

1737
01:37:00,165 --> 01:37:03,585
Like we, we, we are
literally the coins we are.

1738
01:37:03,905 --> 01:37:08,645
The thing it's so, uh,
I absolutely love that.

1739
01:37:08,655 --> 01:37:11,725
Thank you so much for coming on the
show and looking forward to seeing

1740
01:37:11,725 --> 01:37:17,605
you in Prague and, uh, grabbing a beer
or two and good luck with everything.

1741
01:37:17,605 --> 01:37:17,955
Any,

1742
01:37:17,985 --> 01:37:19,995
anywhere you want to direct our listeners.

1743
01:37:21,110 --> 01:37:22,060
So I do, I

1744
01:37:22,060 --> 01:37:26,100
do have, uh, uh, an English language,
uh, substack, but I have to say

1745
01:37:26,100 --> 01:37:29,110
that I don't really, um, um, feel it
right now because I don't have the

1746
01:37:29,120 --> 01:37:30,730
time, but it's, it's fixthemoney.

1747
01:37:30,760 --> 01:37:31,190
net.

1748
01:37:31,660 --> 01:37:37,620
And for anybody who, who, uh, speaks
German or wants to just read, uh, um, the,

1749
01:37:37,700 --> 01:37:43,400
the subtitles provided by, uh, YouTube,
um, you can go to, to, to NikoHilch.

1750
01:37:43,420 --> 01:37:46,020
com and you'll find all my links
to all my social media stuff.

1751
01:37:46,040 --> 01:37:51,320
I actually, I, I, one of the reasons
why I did, um, uh, concentrate on

1752
01:37:51,330 --> 01:37:55,570
doing the German stuff is because I do
believe with AI within a year or so,

1753
01:37:55,790 --> 01:37:59,380
you can just press a button and then
you can listen to my stuff in Swedish.

1754
01:37:59,945 --> 01:38:02,565
Or Brazilian, uh, Portuguese or Spanish.

1755
01:38:03,645 --> 01:38:09,235
And that's going to be great for content
producers and journalists and podcasters.

1756
01:38:09,505 --> 01:38:11,055
And I'm very much looking forward to that.

1757
01:38:11,175 --> 01:38:12,675
Until then, we still do English.

1758
01:38:14,045 --> 01:38:14,675
Wunderbar.

1759
01:38:15,425 --> 01:38:17,565
So, uh, yeah, thanks a

1760
01:38:17,605 --> 01:38:17,925
Thank you.

1761
01:38:18,085 --> 01:38:21,285
And, uh, yeah, I'm going to, I'm
going to see you in Prague and I'm

1762
01:38:21,285 --> 01:38:22,805
very much looking forward to that.

1763
01:38:23,978 --> 01:38:24,928
Yeah, likewise.

1764
01:38:25,058 --> 01:38:25,608
So, yeah.

1765
01:38:25,648 --> 01:38:25,888
Thanks.

1766
01:38:25,938 --> 01:38:26,178
Thanks

1767
01:38:26,178 --> 01:38:26,648
again, Niko.

1768
01:38:26,668 --> 01:38:27,408
This was awesome.

1769
01:38:27,428 --> 01:38:29,718
And, uh, this has been the
Freedom Footprint Show.

1770
01:38:30,168 --> 01:38:30,848
Thanks for listening.

1771
01:38:31,673 --> 01:38:32,313
Brush your teeth.