Running for President with Maya Parbhoe - Bitcoin Infinity Show #123

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Maya, welcome to the
Bitcoin Infinity Show.

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Thanks for joining us.

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Thank you for having me.

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Interesting.

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So you guys went from for
fuck's sake to Bitcoin Infinity.

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I love it.

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Thank you, International Settlements.

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BIS.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Great to have you here, Maja.

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Um, you're from a country that I've
visited twice and it's a very small,

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very, um, very strange country that
I absolutely loved, uh, Suriname.

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So, uh, yeah.

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And you're running for
the presidency there.

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So, so tell us a little about yourself
and, uh, how you discovered Bitcoin and

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how you decided to run for president in.

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Suriname.

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I mean, it's, it's pretty surprising
to hear that someone's visited

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twice already, to be honest.

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Usually the, the, the answer
I get is where is that?

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Or where in Africa is that?

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Most people don't even
know where the country is.

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So it's very, very surprising
to hear that you visited twice.

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well, okay, to, you know, to give an
introduction on me, yeah, I'm, I'm,

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I'm, I have a background in business
administration, I've had a love for tech

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and, and math ever since I was, I don't
know, a kid, uh, basically, and, and a

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love for innovation, uh, I, I read Jules
Verne, I think I was six or seven years

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old at the, at the time, and I just
loved how You know, in, in Jules Verne,

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they were talking about submarines and
things that had never, you know, had

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never could exist or you couldn't even
imagine them, um, at that time, and, you

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know, now they're so straightforward.

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They're, they're just these
standard things that you.

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That you have that, that just exists.

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Um, and my dad was also very innovative.

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He would also, you know, have the
latest technology always available

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at, at, at the, at the store.

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He used to own a store and
like we, we'd have computers.

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Um, he, we, we had the,
um, how do you call this?

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In, in, uh, in English.

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It's the.

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uh, Stenograph, um, you know, Morse code,

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Yeah, yeah.

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yeah, we had, we had like everything,
uh, TD, TDMA phones, uh, like the early

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days, computers, I would, and as a kid
I would actually like pull them apart

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and, and put them back together and you
had these like, it was a, Before floppy

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disks, you had the bigger drives, the
zip, the zip, like the actual zip drives

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that you had to use to play games.

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So I would do all of that as a kid and
I grew up, um, you know, with that love

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of technology and as a pretty nerdy
kid playing games behind my PC a lot.

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And as I grew up, um, you know, I
15 years old, more out of necessity.

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And that business, it's an import export
company, but it wasn't really like my

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passion, you know, it was innovating
here in this country because you couldn't

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order anything online, so I was the first
company that actually, you know, allowed

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people to be able to order products online
and get it delivered all the way here in

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Suriname to their homes, um, and about,
so that was 21 years ago, and about a

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decade ago, I started a second company.

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Uh, we wanted to innovate in the
civil engineering space, uh, with

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my partner, he's a civil engineer.

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So also not really my passion,
but, um, I just wanted to, you

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know, another challenge basically.

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And I wanted to grow a company, to more
than a million in revenue, which is,

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is really hard here in this economy.

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Um, so we started that about a decade ago.

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And that gave me the opportunity to
invest into, you know, something that I

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was passionate about and something that
I wanted to spend the rest of my life on.

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And a friend of mine actually told
me about, about Bitcoin in 2012.

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My friend Ed.

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Uh, so he told me about Bitcoin in 2012,
and I, you know, like, shame on me, to

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be honest, because I just looked at it,
I looked at the, I read the white paper,

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I thought it was amazing, I thought, you
know, this is gonna be, um, life changing,

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or like, it could potentially change the
world, like, Specifically after the 2008

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crisis, I was one of those people that
was anticipating that crisis and kind

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of, you know, knew that it was going to
happen and then you see the whole banking

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crisis like unfold in front of your eyes
and you feel that, you know, that, that

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sense of like, the system is broken.

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And this seemed like the solution, but
I thought to myself, okay, you know,

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it's still early, what if a government
stops it, what if, you know, I still had

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this idea of, okay, it needs to grow.

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So I just kept an eye on it a
little bit, um, kept following it

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in the media, just kept, you know,
Keeping, like, kind of tabs on it.

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And then in, I think it was 2014, I
joined, uh, Whirlpool, uh, and Telegram,

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which was a, a Bitcoin only, um, maxi,
toxic maximalist group, you know,

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where, where everybody was just, like,
talking about Bitcoin all the time.

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And, I, I just kind of got
more and more obsessed with it.

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You know, it's like once you,
once you keep learning more and

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once you understand, you know,
What it, what, what it actually

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can mean for, for, for the world.

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And then you just kind
of stop, can't let go.

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Um, and then I went to, I think Konsensus
was the only conference at the time.

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So I went to Konsensus, uh, in
2017, I think was the first time.

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And I met with the admins
of, of WhalePool actually.

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And, and we went to dinner, uh, and I,
I was like explaining to them, We need

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to have Bitcoin adoption in Suriname
and we need to, you know, we need to

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convert the country and it's, it's the
perfect place for it because we only have

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600, 000 people, we have no financial
infrastructure, a lack of, you know,

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very big gap, um, in, in technology here.

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So, it's the perfect, It's
like the perfect place to build

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that new system on Bitcoin.

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Um,

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me guess, let me guess, the reply
was, what the hell is a Suriname?

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yeah, well pretty much, yeah.

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They were, they were pretty supportive,
but I think it was, it was hard to fathom,

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you know, what, what, what adoption at
that level could, could actually mean.

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Um, so they told me not to give up, um,
I think one of them even asked me, they

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were building, I think it was, um, one
of the exchanges, actually one of the

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derivative exchanges, Derivit, I think,
asked me to be CEO of Derivit, but I

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don't really like derivatives, and I
just kept like kind of pursuing that

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building a capital market and building
that new system, you know, with Bitcoin

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being basically the tool that allows us
Companies to, to, to raise capital from

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anyone in the world, um, being able to,
to hedge, you know, inflation here with

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SRD, you have 50 to 60 percent inflation,
um, being able to hedge inflation

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using Bitcoin and you just want it to,
yeah, Trojan horse it into the economy

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and, and, you know, some kind of way.

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And then in 2020, we, like, we had the
exchange live, 2020, in January, we were

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about to issue the first, um, bond, the
StatsOle, um, the StatsOle is the, it's a

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national, uh, oil refinery here, and they
had a bond issuance of about 190 million.

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And we were, like, preparing for that
issuance, uh, you know, preparing

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the licensing process at the central
bank, and the governor was very

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supportive, you know, to let us innovate
completely free, like, hands off.

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He was really, uh, he had a very pro
act, like, progressive approach to

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just letting us do, um, you know,
what we thought would be best here.

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Um, and then he got locked up
in a political trial, so that

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kind of put a wrench in things.

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Um, and then in 2021, I mean, we
were still working with the new

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Minister of Finance and things
were ongoing, but it was going

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really, you know, like, very slowly.

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Um, and 2021, I saw Buquere,
you know, making Bitcoin legal

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tender in, in El Salvador.

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And I thought, holy shit, you know,
this is what I've been dreaming of.

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So I flew to El Salvador
for adopting Bitcoin.

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Um, and started, started lobbying there.

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And I guess that's where I met Kamal,
I met Daniel Wiggin, and I started

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talking to Daniel and also asking him,
like, how do I get this here, right?

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And then he introduced me to Gigi's 21.

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world.

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And I just started with that.

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I started with trying to develop the
circular economy here, um, you know, just

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like as, as a passion side project while
I focus on, um, trying to innovate still

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in this space, which is how Daedalus
Labs actually got, um, how we started

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with Daedalus Labs in May last year.

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yeah, let me just briefly tell
you my story with Suriname.

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I've been there twice, as I said, and, uh,
I was working on a tall ship at the time

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as an officer on the, uh, Like this big
sailing boat that had high school students

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on board and we went to all these obscure
places, Paramaribo being one of them.

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And, uh, uh, before, before arriving in
Paramaribo, I looked up the, we had a

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little lonely planet guide, printed in
the nineties and it's, uh, under Suriname.

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It just said, don't go here.

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It's dangerous.

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Stay out.

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So, yeah, but we went anyway and, um,
I found Paramaribo to be beautiful.

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Like it's, it's a very, uh,
Cool city and, or, or town.

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Like it's not even a city, right?

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And, uh, I, I went on long walks in, in
Paramaribo and, and saw these, um, houses

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on, villas on stilts almost, and like
very cool architecture in some of the,

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uh, More obscure parts of town and, and
something struck me like all the, all

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the little supermarkets had, uh, metal
bars in front of, uh, yeah, because

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they got robbed all the time earlier
on, I guess, like, uh, it seemed pretty

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safe at the time, but there were still,
still these measures and everywhere

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you could buy a little, um, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna fuck off and go live in the

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jungle kit, like with a, a Primus kitchen
and a tent and a machete and whatnot.

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and, and we heard some stuff from
the, I I think the, um, some contact

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down there that, um, in order to get
all the different religious groups

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to, to, um, uh, to not, to not fight
anymore, you, uh, you needed to have.

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Uh, so, so.

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Yeah, you have to correct me if I,
if I'm wrong here, but Suriname had

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eight state religions or something.

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So you had to have a holiday for
each and every single religion.

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So you were like, not working
like half of the year because,

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because everything was a holiday.

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Is that true?

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Well, it's not half of the year,
but we do have a lot of holidays.

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They were like 150 days or something.

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No, it's not that much.

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Um, but it is, it is a lot.

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Um, don't hold me to it, but I think
it's, it's around 30 to 50 max.

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I think.

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It varies every year.

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Like, we had a, um, Japanese New
Year, uh, last Monday, and I have

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Japanese friends, and I asked them,
like, what is Japanese New Year?

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Like, they don't even know.

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They don't even know what
Japanese New Year is.

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But apparently, it's a holiday.

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So yes, we do have a lot of holidays.

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Um, There's, there's, um, so
it's a melting pot of cultures.

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It's not really as dangerous, um, you
know, in, like, in the city, for example,

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it's a UNESCO heritage site, so you have a
lot of old colonial buildings, um, and in

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the heart of the city, um, I do think that
it is, like, a bit more dangerous for,

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um, specifically for a supermarket, right,
because they know that the criminals do

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know that there's a lot of cash there,
so they do tend to put up bars, but If

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you're like, outside of the direct city,
then it's pretty fine, to be honest, you

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don't have, um, you know, they don't have
bars, uh, at the entrance, you can just

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walk in freely, and it's modernized a lot
as well, so it's not it's not like the

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West, it's still like a little town, um,
yeah, it's, it's, it's fair that in the

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Caribbean, I think it's one of the most
safest, uh, safest places where you, where

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you can visit, and yeah, in terms of the
cultural melting pot, so we have Chinese,

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we have Javanese, we have Indians like
myself, we have, um, Brazilians, we have

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Venezuelans, we have Cubans, we have,
um, Yeah, big Javanese population, you

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have Creole, you have Maroons, you have
Indigenous, and that's just to name a few.

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We have Lebanese as well, so we have
a Lebanese community, we have a Jewish

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community, um, so we're a real cultural
melting pot, and everybody celebrates

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each other's holidays and everybody,
um, cooks each other's dishes.

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Oh, we also have a Dutch population,
so like, for example, my mom is right

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now cooking sauerkraut, So, you know,
we, we, uh, we eat each other's food.

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We celebrate each other's holidays.

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You have a, a synagogue next to a mosque,
So you don't have, um, a lot of like,

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discrimination where people, you know,
are actually actually really violent

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towards each, each other like you have
in other, um, countries in the region.

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00:14:37,446 --> 00:14:37,946
Luckily.

210
00:14:37,947 --> 00:14:38,503
So

211
00:14:38,579 --> 00:14:39,839
No, it's, it's super cool.

212
00:14:39,839 --> 00:14:44,209
And, um, the, the, the other thing we did
in Suriname was that there was like an

213
00:14:44,209 --> 00:14:46,689
excursion out in the, out in the jungle.

214
00:14:47,149 --> 00:14:54,229
Where we, um, did some canoeing and, uh,
some jungle safari thing, uh, visiting

215
00:14:54,229 --> 00:14:58,516
a, a very, what's the word for that?

216
00:14:58,576 --> 00:15:02,096
A, a nature tribe of some kind where,

217
00:15:03,555 --> 00:15:10,065
Maroon tribes and you have Native Indians,
so the indigenous population of Suriname.

218
00:15:10,731 --> 00:15:11,601
no, it was really cool.

219
00:15:11,601 --> 00:15:16,281
It was one of those old yellow
American school buses from the 70s.

220
00:15:16,721 --> 00:15:21,791
And at some point we had to have all the
students jump, or all the male students

221
00:15:21,791 --> 00:15:27,311
jump out of the bus and push it up the
mud on the road because it was stuck.

222
00:15:27,881 --> 00:15:31,081
And there was no phone
connection or anything like that.

223
00:15:31,556 --> 00:15:38,816
And I, if I recall correctly, there
was a, um, uh, a dam somewhere in the

224
00:15:38,816 --> 00:15:43,906
country that they have decided to build,
and there's a, there's a church tower

225
00:15:43,906 --> 00:15:48,326
sticking, uh, in the middle of the dam
sticking out of it, because there was a

226
00:15:48,326 --> 00:15:52,296
little village, That they just didn't give
a shit about and just flooded the entire

227
00:15:52,356 --> 00:15:56,412
valley to build a hydroelectric dam.

228
00:15:57,961 --> 00:16:01,961
relocate the villages,
some of them have stayed.

229
00:16:02,265 --> 00:16:06,955
But I think this was, uh, yeah, it was,
uh, the Suriname Aluminium Company.

230
00:16:07,005 --> 00:16:12,905
So, um, well, actually Alcoa, so the, the
largest aluminum company in the world.

231
00:16:12,945 --> 00:16:18,125
And I think we supplied most of the
aluminum for the Second World War as well.

232
00:16:18,125 --> 00:16:22,265
So it's, it's, yeah, that's why
that dam was, was, uh, developed.

233
00:16:22,345 --> 00:16:25,835
Um, it's, it's been
decommissioned for a while.

234
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:32,670
So not the dam, but I mean the aluminum
refinery, so now the energy is used by

235
00:16:32,820 --> 00:16:35,850
just the locals, so it goes to the city.

236
00:16:37,170 --> 00:16:41,980
And yeah, they flooded
a piece of the country.

237
00:16:42,620 --> 00:16:50,150
It's not very large percentage wise, but
it did You do have like some mountaintops

238
00:16:51,210 --> 00:16:55,430
that are still sticking out, where you
have new villages that have come up.

239
00:16:55,530 --> 00:17:02,820
That you do have some remnants
of what used to be there

240
00:17:02,820 --> 00:17:04,920
still, but it is beautiful.

241
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,730
It's a 93 percent forested.

242
00:17:08,060 --> 00:17:12,020
So the largest percentage of the
country is Amazon rainforest.

243
00:17:12,660 --> 00:17:17,210
And as you said, like cell phone
coverage has improved a little bit.

244
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:22,440
Um, when you head into the interior,
um, but you, you still do have to,

245
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:27,390
like, depending on how far you go, um,
if you're going up river rapids, for

246
00:17:27,390 --> 00:17:32,390
example, you do still need to, like,
get out of the canoe, uh, get all of

247
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:36,750
your baggage out, and then they, they,
we push the canoe, um, you know, like,

248
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:43,210
upstream, um, through the rapids, um,
or sometimes, if you're really deep, uh,

249
00:17:43,230 --> 00:17:47,770
sometimes they have to carry it, uh, and
then, you know, Put it back in the water

250
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,360
and then you reload all of your stuff.

251
00:17:50,607 --> 00:17:51,607
That's the way we did it.

252
00:17:51,637 --> 00:17:53,937
And, uh, yeah, it's a great memory.

253
00:17:53,967 --> 00:17:58,287
I mean, it was beautiful and,
and, um, it felt very adventurous.

254
00:17:58,337 --> 00:18:00,787
Um, that was a really cool.

255
00:18:00,787 --> 00:18:05,467
And we heard, uh, like the story,
the history of the country is like

256
00:18:05,517 --> 00:18:08,857
the slaves that managed to escape.

257
00:18:09,297 --> 00:18:10,867
They just ran into the jungle, right?

258
00:18:10,867 --> 00:18:14,557
And then the slave owners who
were Europeans didn't know

259
00:18:14,557 --> 00:18:17,187
how to handle jungle, so they
couldn't really catch them.

260
00:18:17,217 --> 00:18:21,827
And they, uh, they started this,
these little villages and there's a,

261
00:18:22,447 --> 00:18:27,527
uh, what they call anthropologists
are, um, studying all these tribes

262
00:18:27,527 --> 00:18:31,767
because they're even more based
than, than the ones in Africa.

263
00:18:31,767 --> 00:18:37,267
Because, um, yeah, that's,
that's what we were told anyway.

264
00:18:37,657 --> 00:18:38,377
But yeah, yeah.

265
00:18:38,987 --> 00:18:39,767
Great memories.

266
00:18:40,267 --> 00:18:43,797
They still have, um, they still
have kept a lot of their culture,

267
00:18:43,977 --> 00:18:47,457
um, alive and they're very remote.

268
00:18:47,892 --> 00:18:53,702
we've actually been working with Amazon
conservation team for, it's been,

269
00:18:54,332 --> 00:18:59,483
yeah, it's been almost a year, a bit
longer than a year now, to actually

270
00:19:00,003 --> 00:19:04,833
incorporate Bitcoin into their lives
to solve, um, you know, a lot of

271
00:19:04,833 --> 00:19:07,663
the problems that they have because
they're, because they're that remote.

272
00:19:08,563 --> 00:19:13,451
They don't really have a use for
the Surinamese dollar, it's, it's

273
00:19:13,451 --> 00:19:18,661
very, like, they need about three
months of salary to be able to

274
00:19:18,661 --> 00:19:20,781
travel to the city to use the SRD.

275
00:19:20,841 --> 00:19:24,411
So, you know, inherently that,
that makes it difficult for

276
00:19:24,641 --> 00:19:26,311
them to use the local currency.

277
00:19:27,071 --> 00:19:31,731
you know, they live off of the land, so
they live off of, um, like, hunting and

278
00:19:31,731 --> 00:19:38,431
fishing, um, and they produce some things,
like, um, there's stingless honeybees, so

279
00:19:38,431 --> 00:19:43,381
they produce honey, um, they produce some
type of pepper, or they cultivate, um,

280
00:19:43,421 --> 00:19:45,391
things, or they make jewelry, for example.

281
00:19:46,061 --> 00:19:49,621
So things like that are
their only source of income.

282
00:19:50,336 --> 00:19:54,836
But it's also costly for them to, you
know, need to travel to the city to

283
00:19:54,876 --> 00:19:57,406
be able to, to, to use their money.

284
00:19:57,466 --> 00:20:02,376
So Bitcoin solves that problem,
but it also solves a problem like

285
00:20:02,386 --> 00:20:07,363
of sustainability because, most
of them are a lot, well, actually,

286
00:20:07,433 --> 00:20:10,643
almost all of them are too remote
to be connected to the grid.

287
00:20:11,668 --> 00:20:13,068
So they don't have great energy.

288
00:20:14,318 --> 00:20:21,328
The only thing that they can actually use
is solar and there's nothing that can make

289
00:20:21,518 --> 00:20:26,568
solar sustainable for them to actually
maintain and keep that solar system.

290
00:20:26,588 --> 00:20:30,668
So if you add mining to it, You
create a source of income that is, you

291
00:20:30,668 --> 00:20:36,858
know, purely from energy and is just
basically the basis of their little

292
00:20:37,148 --> 00:20:40,698
circular, what we, you know, like to
call their little circular economy.

293
00:20:40,748 --> 00:20:45,108
So we've been working with Amazon
conservation team very closely, um, over

294
00:20:45,108 --> 00:20:50,778
the past year to, to get them all, you
know, to adopt Bitcoin, to be honest.

295
00:20:50,818 --> 00:20:55,643
And it's taken a year, but, um, We're
getting a lot more traction right now,

296
00:20:55,643 --> 00:21:02,283
so it's very exciting to finally see
some traction and see Bitcoin companies

297
00:21:02,283 --> 00:21:07,323
willing to help to get projects like
that off the ground because I feel

298
00:21:07,323 --> 00:21:13,323
like, you know, they're so, they're
so remote, they're so traditional

299
00:21:13,883 --> 00:21:20,223
that and they're so not, they're so
against being dependent on government.

300
00:21:20,743 --> 00:21:21,963
They want their independence.

301
00:21:21,963 --> 00:21:23,463
They want their self sovereignty.

302
00:21:23,893 --> 00:21:29,663
So I see this as a real opportunity
to just directly have energy convert

303
00:21:29,733 --> 00:21:35,253
into Bitcoin and that be their, their
main source of income and, you know,

304
00:21:35,653 --> 00:21:39,583
basically give them sovereignty, have
them be able to be self sustainable

305
00:21:39,583 --> 00:21:42,863
and, you know, just completely be.

306
00:21:43,633 --> 00:21:44,483
Independent.

307
00:21:44,793 --> 00:21:50,493
And, and like, I think as far as, as,
uh, circular economies go or, or like

308
00:21:50,493 --> 00:21:55,153
the whole idea of, of, you know, Bitcoin
adoption, I think this is like the most,

309
00:21:55,203 --> 00:21:57,313
like the purest form you can have it.

310
00:21:57,473 --> 00:21:57,723
Right.

311
00:21:57,723 --> 00:21:59,703
Because it's not just them buying Bitcoin.

312
00:22:00,033 --> 00:22:00,843
It's like literally.

313
00:22:01,533 --> 00:22:07,333
They have a source of energy that they
need, and that source of energy also

314
00:22:07,453 --> 00:22:13,193
converts into this, you know, purest
form of money that they can use.

315
00:22:14,398 --> 00:22:19,858
That's one of my passion side
projects that I'm really happy that

316
00:22:19,868 --> 00:22:21,338
it's finally getting more traction.

317
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:07,390
.

so tell us about this, um, the
political campaign and, uh, like when

318
00:24:07,390 --> 00:24:12,160
did you decide to run for, uh, for
president and what are your chances?

319
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:13,970
Like where, where is this going?

320
00:24:14,350 --> 00:24:20,148
Yeah, so, okay, um, like, I've never
been politically active in the country,

321
00:24:20,188 --> 00:24:25,608
but I have been a political activist,
so I have been very vocal against

322
00:24:25,628 --> 00:24:30,778
government, very vocal against, um, you
know, corruption, very vocal against,

323
00:24:30,978 --> 00:24:35,628
um, you know, some of the You Corruption
happening at our financial institutions.

324
00:24:35,768 --> 00:24:41,028
I was very vocal about open market
operations, um, like our, our central

325
00:24:41,028 --> 00:24:44,878
bank started doing it a few years ago,
and I was actually one of the, the

326
00:24:44,878 --> 00:24:49,728
people that, um, you know, worked out
how open market operations worked.

327
00:24:50,263 --> 00:24:53,543
And the whole point of it was to
get interest rates down because

328
00:24:53,553 --> 00:24:58,363
they're like at 19%, between 12
and 19 percent interest rates here.

329
00:24:59,013 --> 00:25:03,373
And the whole point was to get,
you know, to get those lowered,

330
00:25:03,953 --> 00:25:08,893
um, and create liquidity in the
market initially with, with that.

331
00:25:09,633 --> 00:25:12,503
And, uh, they took that and raped it.

332
00:25:12,928 --> 00:25:18,838
And made it 89 percent and 90 percent
interest rates on a short term deposit.

333
00:25:18,868 --> 00:25:23,708
So they've injected over 221
million already into the economy

334
00:25:23,708 --> 00:25:25,368
in just the last few years.

335
00:25:26,132 --> 00:25:28,752
and I've been very vocal about that.

336
00:25:29,082 --> 00:25:32,752
I've been very vocal about
corruption in the country and very

337
00:25:32,792 --> 00:25:34,522
vocal about government corruption.

338
00:25:35,932 --> 00:25:40,982
Um, it was actually at, uh, I think
it was, yeah, it was Bitcoin Miami

339
00:25:40,982 --> 00:25:48,566
last year, where I met Samson and his
team, uh, from Gen 3 and, you know, uh,

340
00:25:48,676 --> 00:25:55,656
Samson being an advisor on the, the,
the sovereign bonds in El Salvador and,

341
00:25:55,786 --> 00:26:00,396
you know, also being part of, you know,
that adoption happening in El Salvador,

342
00:26:00,456 --> 00:26:05,276
it being legal tender, um, I asked
Edwin actually at Gen 3, like, how do I?

343
00:26:05,596 --> 00:26:07,896
You know, how do we get
this done in Suriname?

344
00:26:07,976 --> 00:26:10,956
Similar to me still lobbying
for the same thing everywhere.

345
00:26:11,526 --> 00:26:15,206
Um, and Edwin said you need to get Samson
on the flight to Suriname, or you need

346
00:26:15,206 --> 00:26:17,236
to convince him to come to Suriname.

347
00:26:17,746 --> 00:26:22,286
Uh, so that became one of my goals, you
know, to convince him to come here and

348
00:26:22,306 --> 00:26:24,201
get him in front of the right people here.

349
00:26:25,081 --> 00:26:29,491
we started talking and then working
together I think starting Bitcoin Miami

350
00:26:29,491 --> 00:26:35,821
last year And I we had several meetings
with the Minister of Foreign Affairs and

351
00:26:35,821 --> 00:26:42,011
then eventually I arranged also a meeting
with him and the president November of

352
00:26:42,011 --> 00:26:49,461
last year and that took a couple of months
of you know, lobbying to get Get him in

353
00:26:49,461 --> 00:26:56,386
front of the president specifically And,
uh, he was here, he talked to the central

354
00:26:56,386 --> 00:27:00,676
bank, he talked to the, he had a meeting
with the minister of finance before,

355
00:27:00,676 --> 00:27:03,566
he had a meeting with the minister of
foreign affairs, he had the meeting, he

356
00:27:03,566 --> 00:27:07,756
had meetings here with a lot of financial
institutions and their CEOs, the banking

357
00:27:07,756 --> 00:27:09,866
commission, their, their vice chairman.

358
00:27:10,683 --> 00:27:16,943
And it was actually while Samson was here
that he, he said it in a couple of, of,

359
00:27:17,013 --> 00:27:19,183
of like, dinner meetings that we had.

360
00:27:19,183 --> 00:27:20,493
He's like, you should just run.

361
00:27:21,323 --> 00:27:22,583
You know, everything.

362
00:27:22,583 --> 00:27:24,893
You understand, you
understand how it works.

363
00:27:24,893 --> 00:27:29,493
You understand, you know, the bonds, the
sovereign bonds, the, the, The dynamics of

364
00:27:29,493 --> 00:27:33,543
the economy and what Bitcoin can actually
mean and how you can leverage, you know,

365
00:27:33,843 --> 00:27:39,423
Bitcoin and implement it actually in
this country and just change the economy.

366
00:27:39,473 --> 00:27:40,593
So you should just run.

367
00:27:40,643 --> 00:27:44,183
And then he did that a couple of
times and we actually talked about it

368
00:27:44,893 --> 00:27:47,463
more broadly in one dinner meeting.

369
00:27:48,693 --> 00:27:53,093
And I thought that they were going to
make Bitcoin legal tender because the

370
00:27:53,093 --> 00:27:56,923
president was very, very, very positive
during that meeting with Samson.

371
00:27:56,923 --> 00:27:59,953
He said, yes, I'm going to be
a global leader in innovation.

372
00:27:59,973 --> 00:28:02,633
We're going to be the
Bitcoin leader in the world.

373
00:28:02,633 --> 00:28:04,883
And, you know, it's
similar to El Salvador.

374
00:28:04,883 --> 00:28:06,233
We're going to change this economy.

375
00:28:06,643 --> 00:28:11,833
And he wants to be a global voice
in tech and in innovation and

376
00:28:11,833 --> 00:28:13,133
Bitcoin's going to lead the way.

377
00:28:13,638 --> 00:28:17,048
So during that meeting he was very
positive and afterward they were

378
00:28:17,048 --> 00:28:21,598
also, you know, following up and
being very positive and they're, you

379
00:28:21,598 --> 00:28:25,988
know, installing a specific commission
to go to oversee it and one of his

380
00:28:25,988 --> 00:28:27,878
advisors was going to review it.

381
00:28:29,198 --> 00:28:34,938
And then I think it was January or
February this year, one of his, that,

382
00:28:34,978 --> 00:28:41,168
that specific advisor had a conversation
with me because we had worked together

383
00:28:41,168 --> 00:28:47,538
previously in eGov He was, he was
talking to me about this and then he

384
00:28:47,538 --> 00:28:53,528
mentioned that he was mining Bitcoin
and that he was already mining a couple

385
00:28:53,528 --> 00:28:58,408
of megawatts and he was scaling it up
to a 10 megawatt facility or he already

386
00:28:58,408 --> 00:29:01,568
had 10 megawatt available and he was
scaling it up, wanted to head to 20

387
00:29:01,568 --> 00:29:04,748
megawatts and he wanted to keep it silent.

388
00:29:05,318 --> 00:29:08,178
Like he didn't want people
to talk about Bitcoin.

389
00:29:09,138 --> 00:29:14,118
And, you know, doing, making Bitcoin
legal tender that would attract too

390
00:29:14,118 --> 00:29:16,138
much attention to what he was doing.

391
00:29:17,048 --> 00:29:21,638
So that's when I immediately saw
this, you know, fuck, it's the

392
00:29:21,638 --> 00:29:23,488
same fucking corruption again.

393
00:29:23,508 --> 00:29:29,018
And, you know, look at the opportunity
that we have and look how close we are.

394
00:29:29,098 --> 00:29:34,710
You know, we've been working towards this
point for a year and we worked so hard.

395
00:29:34,710 --> 00:29:35,802
We got Samson all the way here.

396
00:29:35,802 --> 00:29:37,078
We got Samson all the way here.

397
00:29:37,558 --> 00:29:40,688
And we can literally, you know,
they had the proposal at the

398
00:29:40,688 --> 00:29:45,158
central bank, they know the impact
that it can have on our country.

399
00:29:45,448 --> 00:29:47,368
They know, they know what they can do.

400
00:29:47,888 --> 00:29:54,308
And they're, they're, you know, being
bureaucratic about it and putting it on

401
00:29:54,308 --> 00:29:56,678
the back burner and keeping it silent.

402
00:29:56,858 --> 00:30:01,538
Because of this man's personal interest
in this mining facility, you know?

403
00:30:01,538 --> 00:30:06,818
So that's where, where just my political
activism and like my hatred for

404
00:30:06,818 --> 00:30:08,818
corruption just kind of kept brewing.

405
00:30:09,792 --> 00:30:14,542
and then I just, I kept thinking
about what Samson said and I just

406
00:30:14,572 --> 00:30:19,692
kept weighing, weighing the pros and
the cons because you do, you know,

407
00:30:19,692 --> 00:30:21,942
you do lose your, your, your privacy.

408
00:30:21,952 --> 00:30:28,197
You do have a A sense of danger and threat
in terms of security because, you know,

409
00:30:28,197 --> 00:30:32,417
it's still, our vice president is on
the Interpol list, you know, our former

410
00:30:32,417 --> 00:30:42,017
president, um, is, is, um, was a dictator,
um, who read, who led a revolution, right?

411
00:30:42,067 --> 00:30:45,667
So it is, it is a, it is
a dangerous environment.

412
00:30:46,097 --> 00:30:53,032
Um, and we do have, you know, You
know, like, there is exports that other

413
00:30:53,032 --> 00:30:59,732
political activists, I spoke to, um,
other political leaders, um, and after

414
00:30:59,742 --> 00:31:05,082
those, all of those conversations, uh,
after a couple of months, um, also, you

415
00:31:05,082 --> 00:31:08,472
know, just kind of like dealing with
the fact that I'd be losing my privacy,

416
00:31:08,472 --> 00:31:12,900
that I'd be losing, my sense of safety,
security, that I'd be going against my

417
00:31:12,900 --> 00:31:18,450
mother's wishes and my family's wishes,
actually, and pursuing this and, you

418
00:31:18,450 --> 00:31:22,370
know, speaking to who are now my team.

419
00:31:22,730 --> 00:31:27,390
Um, you know, people that are influential
here, that have integrity, that, um, have

420
00:31:27,390 --> 00:31:32,000
a reputation and credibility here, and
political, um, leaders in the country

421
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,800
that I actually decided to, to take it on.

422
00:31:35,496 --> 00:31:40,706
you know, our population is very
tired of old politics, um, of

423
00:31:40,706 --> 00:31:44,176
corruption, because it's been, it's,
there's been systemic corruption

424
00:31:44,176 --> 00:31:45,686
ever since independence, since 1975.

425
00:31:46,436 --> 00:31:48,006
It's one government after the other.

426
00:31:48,611 --> 00:31:52,951
Um, looting and stealing, uh, from
the people, you know, taking our

427
00:31:52,951 --> 00:31:58,751
central bank reserves and, um,
just basically doing big projects.

428
00:31:58,751 --> 00:32:03,881
And then of those big projects, just the
percentage goes into the actual project.

429
00:32:03,891 --> 00:32:05,531
The rest goes into someone's pocket.

430
00:32:05,571 --> 00:32:09,801
There's just systemic corruption at
all our, um, state owned companies.

431
00:32:09,959 --> 00:32:12,486
it's just widespread, right?

432
00:32:12,486 --> 00:32:14,416
And it's one scandal after the other.

433
00:32:14,436 --> 00:32:18,136
We had hope for this
government, but it's just been.

434
00:32:18,616 --> 00:32:22,066
Corruption scandal, after corruption
scandal, after corruption scandal.

435
00:32:22,580 --> 00:32:24,470
so, everybody's tired.

436
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,760
And it's like everybody's living in
survival mode, and people have lost hope.

437
00:32:29,490 --> 00:32:32,450
And they've lost hope in our
older politicians as well.

438
00:32:33,140 --> 00:32:38,295
And, you know, we wanted to have change.

439
00:32:39,225 --> 00:32:44,606
And it seems that other political
parties and leaders, um, You know,

440
00:32:44,606 --> 00:32:49,736
some of the smaller ones, they were
very supportive of, of me, um, running

441
00:32:49,736 --> 00:32:54,996
and, and the question was, am I going
to start, you know, a new party?

442
00:32:55,046 --> 00:32:58,086
Am I going to start my new,
like, my own new party?

443
00:32:58,096 --> 00:33:02,535
And that was our, our initial,
idea and an initial approach.

444
00:33:02,535 --> 00:33:06,295
We started, you know, the, the
incorporation with, uh, our local

445
00:33:06,295 --> 00:33:11,655
notary to incorporate the National
Liberal Party, our Libertary Party.

446
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:16,994
And, well, as we went further along,
um, I've also been approached by

447
00:33:16,994 --> 00:33:19,734
the National Democratic Party,
which is one of the largest parties

448
00:33:19,734 --> 00:33:22,044
in the country, um, to join them.

449
00:33:22,832 --> 00:33:27,662
but there is another small party that was
actually created after the last elections

450
00:33:27,662 --> 00:33:34,162
called 597 Network, or Netwerken, uh,
in Dutch, and Networks, uh, in English.

451
00:33:34,711 --> 00:33:38,071
and this is not a specific
political ideology.

452
00:33:38,746 --> 00:33:41,456
It's, uh, it's almost like, like Bitcoin.

453
00:33:41,496 --> 00:33:42,856
It's, it's about nodes.

454
00:33:42,916 --> 00:33:44,046
It's about a network.

455
00:33:44,056 --> 00:33:48,636
It's about people, individuals, and
it's, it's decentralized and it's

456
00:33:48,656 --> 00:33:52,456
very much about this decentralized
form of government, governance.

457
00:33:52,516 --> 00:33:54,396
It's not about a specific person.

458
00:33:54,826 --> 00:33:57,996
So I'm, I'm aligning with this party.

459
00:33:58,086 --> 00:34:02,136
Um, we have our, our party
elections on, on the 25th.

460
00:34:02,256 --> 00:34:05,236
I'll, I'll be put forward
as the, the candidate.

461
00:34:05,860 --> 00:34:11,090
To lead the party, so that is, um, the
path that we're on right now as a team,

462
00:34:11,885 --> 00:34:17,055
and basically you have, um, so you
have the existing party called the Fé

463
00:34:17,055 --> 00:34:23,150
Hapé, the current government, um, the
current president's party, Which is one

464
00:34:23,150 --> 00:34:24,830
of the larger parties at the moment.

465
00:34:25,610 --> 00:34:30,540
And then you have the NDP, which is the
other large party of our former president.

466
00:34:31,510 --> 00:34:36,030
But our former president was
convicted, sentenced to 20 years.

467
00:34:36,540 --> 00:34:37,970
So he's in hiding right now.

468
00:34:38,380 --> 00:34:41,470
So he's not leading the party, so the
party is actually having elections

469
00:34:41,470 --> 00:34:44,050
as well to select a new leader.

470
00:34:44,535 --> 00:34:48,795
Um, there's some infighting in that
political party, so I'm not really sure

471
00:34:48,795 --> 00:34:53,405
if it makes sense for me to, to join, and
also because of, you know, the history

472
00:34:53,415 --> 00:34:57,925
of both, of actually all of the larger
political parties is a lot of systemic

473
00:34:57,925 --> 00:35:03,382
corruption, like none of them, um, you
know, have, have a track record of, you

474
00:35:03,382 --> 00:35:08,892
know, leaving this country, uh, without,
you know, their own, um, political agenda

475
00:35:08,892 --> 00:35:11,322
and without a track record of corruption.

476
00:35:12,123 --> 00:35:19,203
about 40 percent of voters are, uh,
under 35, so we have a very, um, young

477
00:35:19,593 --> 00:35:25,938
voting population, that'll be voting
in these new elections are, um, Our

478
00:35:25,938 --> 00:35:31,048
constitution has been changed as well,
or part of our voting laws have changed.

479
00:35:31,488 --> 00:35:36,688
It used to be, um, a system where,
you know, like, for example, you have

480
00:35:36,698 --> 00:35:41,678
Koruni, where you have about 1, 300
people living, and those 1, 300 votes

481
00:35:41,678 --> 00:35:46,408
would weigh as much as, you know,
more than 10, 000 votes in the city.

482
00:35:47,018 --> 00:35:51,618
Um, so you had this weighted system where
you could go to these villages or these

483
00:35:51,648 --> 00:35:56,338
districts and, you know, convince that
small amount of people to vote for your

484
00:35:56,338 --> 00:36:00,208
political party and that would get you
a significant amount of seats and at the

485
00:36:00,208 --> 00:36:04,808
end you'd have enough seats in parliament,
you know, to have enough voting rights

486
00:36:04,878 --> 00:36:07,858
to be able to elect a president.

487
00:36:08,558 --> 00:36:10,548
So, um, that changed.

488
00:36:10,588 --> 00:36:12,128
It's now one man, one vote.

489
00:36:12,408 --> 00:36:14,908
So this will be the first elections.

490
00:36:15,448 --> 00:36:21,128
Um, in our country, where you have this
one man, one vote system, sorry, my cat

491
00:36:21,138 --> 00:36:25,498
in the background, um, yeah, so you have
these, these elections where you have,

492
00:36:25,568 --> 00:36:30,528
um, this one man, one vote, uh, system
for the first time, um, where things

493
00:36:30,528 --> 00:36:36,593
will be more fair, and now that you
have, um, You know, just our population

494
00:36:36,593 --> 00:36:41,773
just being very tired of corruption
and none of the other political parties

495
00:36:41,823 --> 00:36:49,483
actually have a, um, a clear plan on
how to develop our country, right?

496
00:36:49,533 --> 00:36:54,653
They have, I mean, they've taken bits and
pieces of what I've, I've spoken about.

497
00:36:54,823 --> 00:37:00,799
They're, they're taking some ideas, but
you don't have the, the skills, the,

498
00:37:00,819 --> 00:37:06,534
the knowledge, the, the capacity within
those political parties to actually Lay

499
00:37:06,534 --> 00:37:10,844
out an actual plan, like with, with the
structure for the sovereign bonds with

500
00:37:10,904 --> 00:37:12,914
Bitcoin and how you actually use Bitcoin.

501
00:37:13,451 --> 00:37:16,491
what, how you attract foreign direct
investment, how we're going to

502
00:37:16,491 --> 00:37:20,221
tackle a lot of the economic issues
that we're facing in this country.

503
00:37:20,221 --> 00:37:22,561
We're on the verge of being blacklisted.

504
00:37:23,061 --> 00:37:26,841
Um, three of our banks are being
prosecuted by Dutch government.

505
00:37:27,251 --> 00:37:29,281
Um, recently came out.

506
00:37:29,651 --> 00:37:33,641
Um, so how do you deal
with those challenges?

507
00:37:34,181 --> 00:37:36,731
How do we get rid of the IMF, right?

508
00:37:36,761 --> 00:37:42,101
Because we don't want to be in an IMF
program, and the amount, to be honest,

509
00:37:42,181 --> 00:37:47,901
like, it's the amount that of that program
and the amount of our, of our Uh, our

510
00:37:47,901 --> 00:37:52,891
bonds at, at Oppenheimer, for example,
those are insignificant amounts in

511
00:37:52,961 --> 00:37:57,281
comparison to our national resources and
what we get from our national resources.

512
00:37:57,351 --> 00:38:01,278
So, none of the other political
parties have a clear strategy or

513
00:38:01,348 --> 00:38:05,668
exactly, actually know how, or a
vision how to develop this country.

514
00:38:06,658 --> 00:38:10,028
Um, so I guess that's where I
stand out and which is why I'm, I'm

515
00:38:10,058 --> 00:38:11,998
getting as much support as I am.

516
00:38:12,668 --> 00:38:17,408
Uh, campaigning has actually just
started and it started after I announced

517
00:38:17,798 --> 00:38:19,398
that I was going into politics.

518
00:38:19,758 --> 00:38:23,728
So, they, the podcast came out, I
announced that I was going into politics.

519
00:38:23,728 --> 00:38:24,143
Thanks for listening.

520
00:38:24,303 --> 00:38:27,573
Um, and then the two other
political, like the larger political

521
00:38:27,573 --> 00:38:29,173
parties started being more active.

522
00:38:29,193 --> 00:38:35,143
I was approached by a lot, actually all
of the smaller parties, um, to join them.

523
00:38:35,593 --> 00:38:40,313
but all together, all the small
parties only get about 7, 000

524
00:38:40,313 --> 00:38:42,233
votes, which is enough for one seat.

525
00:38:42,923 --> 00:38:44,683
Um, so we're going for the win.

526
00:38:45,083 --> 00:38:49,503
We're going up against the larger
political parties, unless we form,

527
00:38:49,653 --> 00:38:51,983
um, a collaboration with one of them.

528
00:38:52,328 --> 00:38:58,588
And then, you know, the, the, uh, the
forward, uh, the requirement would be

529
00:38:59,108 --> 00:39:06,848
that it would be a group of younger
people between 30 to 35, or between

530
00:39:06,848 --> 00:39:11,678
30 and 40, that have a track record of
integrity, that have the knowledge and the

531
00:39:11,688 --> 00:39:16,838
skills and the capability to be able to
actually lead this country into change.

532
00:39:17,218 --> 00:39:22,148
And, you know, be able to execute
our, our program, because we have.

533
00:39:23,093 --> 00:39:28,363
We laid out a plan that can immediately
change this country starting 2025,

534
00:39:28,433 --> 00:39:32,873
not, you know, four or five years,
not promising something, but

535
00:39:32,873 --> 00:39:34,943
actually doing it starting 2025.

536
00:39:35,543 --> 00:39:38,053
So it would have to be a team
of integrity, and they'd have to

537
00:39:38,053 --> 00:39:42,433
be willing to let this team, you
know, change this country because

538
00:39:42,433 --> 00:39:44,093
it would be systemic change.

539
00:39:44,153 --> 00:39:45,613
Um, I believe in that.

540
00:39:46,883 --> 00:39:49,333
You know, less government involvement.

541
00:39:49,703 --> 00:39:53,653
I do believe that everything
that government touches tends

542
00:39:53,773 --> 00:39:58,673
to ruin the natural dynamics of
a free and open market, right?

543
00:39:58,713 --> 00:40:03,533
It tends to have the opposite
effect of what a government usually

544
00:40:04,043 --> 00:40:06,383
intends to achieve for its people.

545
00:40:06,893 --> 00:40:10,093
So we want to privatize as much as we can.

546
00:40:10,103 --> 00:40:12,793
We want to decentralize as much as we can.

547
00:40:12,853 --> 00:40:16,253
So for example, education
doesn't have to be.

548
00:40:16,583 --> 00:40:20,590
A government, um, you know,
government led, ministry.

549
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,460
That ministry doesn't even have to exist.

550
00:40:22,460 --> 00:40:26,480
It can be completely privatized,
um, with the right foundation

551
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:27,580
and guidelines, right?

552
00:40:27,810 --> 00:40:31,390
And doesn't need to be
completely managed by government.

553
00:40:31,950 --> 00:40:33,040
Um, healthcare.

554
00:40:33,110 --> 00:40:36,480
Our healthcare system is
completely in shambles right now.

555
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,410
Um, that doesn't need to
be a government thing.

556
00:40:39,630 --> 00:40:43,090
All of the state owned companies
don't have to be owned by government.

557
00:40:43,100 --> 00:40:47,550
Like, uh, there's a lot of systemic
corruption at our energy company, ABS.

558
00:40:48,060 --> 00:40:49,910
That doesn't have to be government owned.

559
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,870
SOM, our water company, that
doesn't have to be government owned.

560
00:40:53,100 --> 00:40:59,220
Our national air carrier is 140
million in debt, thanks to government.

561
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,530
That does not have to be government owned.

562
00:41:01,550 --> 00:41:07,919
So, remove as much of the power and,
and, you know, overreach that has been

563
00:41:07,969 --> 00:41:11,199
systemically created throughout the world.

564
00:41:11,549 --> 00:41:15,929
Actually, where government has,
you know, crept into our lives

565
00:41:16,539 --> 00:41:18,609
in all and every aspect, right?

566
00:41:18,609 --> 00:41:23,619
You need to ask, ask government for
permission for almost everything.

567
00:41:24,459 --> 00:41:28,239
But, um, if you look at, for example,
Switzerland, the Swiss cantonal

568
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,599
model, you have a federal government,
but the cantons still decide.

569
00:41:33,339 --> 00:41:35,939
So, similarly, in Suriname,
we have districts.

570
00:41:36,269 --> 00:41:40,559
You can actually bring a lot of
the decision making back to the

571
00:41:40,559 --> 00:41:42,064
people, back to the government.

572
00:41:42,464 --> 00:41:47,374
Um, you know, at this district level,
where, you know, if a road needs

573
00:41:47,454 --> 00:41:51,574
to be built, for example, they can
actually themselves vote whether

574
00:41:51,574 --> 00:41:55,734
they need that road or not, or what
is the highest priority, and just

575
00:41:55,734 --> 00:42:00,674
bring the decision making and the
budget back to that, that, just that,

576
00:42:00,674 --> 00:42:02,639
that regional, that regional level.

577
00:42:03,409 --> 00:42:08,719
And using Bitcoin as our national
currency because I, I, you know,

578
00:42:08,759 --> 00:42:12,259
not like Mukele, Mukele made a legal
tender, but they still have the U.

579
00:42:12,259 --> 00:42:12,339
S.

580
00:42:12,359 --> 00:42:14,259
dollar as a de facto currency, right?

581
00:42:15,219 --> 00:42:22,409
if we replace the Surinamese dollar
with Bitcoin, people just earning in

582
00:42:23,159 --> 00:42:27,269
satoshis, people just earning sats,
um, and earning in Bitcoin, companies

583
00:42:27,279 --> 00:42:30,539
maintaining their treasuries in
Bitcoin, we are an import economy.

584
00:42:30,699 --> 00:42:32,649
We import more than we export.

585
00:42:32,794 --> 00:42:36,304
And the things that we export
are national resources.

586
00:42:36,684 --> 00:42:40,424
We don't produce a lot because
our population is much too small.

587
00:42:41,044 --> 00:42:48,174
So you change the way people earn and the
way that companies run their treasury.

588
00:42:48,664 --> 00:42:52,714
Every company in this country will
be a mini micro strategy, right?

589
00:42:53,274 --> 00:42:58,794
And in comparison to the fiat value of
everything they import, the resources

590
00:42:58,844 --> 00:43:02,574
that, the, the, the, the, the, the
resources that they need to import to,

591
00:43:02,574 --> 00:43:04,594
to manufacture something, for example.

592
00:43:05,264 --> 00:43:08,784
The companies that produce locally,
their costs will be going down.

593
00:43:09,209 --> 00:43:13,033
In comparison to everything they
need to import, everybody that earns

594
00:43:13,033 --> 00:43:17,883
a salary, now, what they do is they
have SRD, and then they immediately

595
00:43:17,883 --> 00:43:22,873
convert their SRD to, um, US dollar or
euro, and then they save in US dollar

596
00:43:22,873 --> 00:43:24,753
or euro, or they buy gold, right?

597
00:43:24,763 --> 00:43:25,793
And they save in that.

598
00:43:26,513 --> 00:43:31,808
So, instead of them having to exchange
it to some other fiat, they One

599
00:43:31,998 --> 00:43:36,498
bitcoin is one bitcoin, and they'll
always be increasing in value in

600
00:43:36,498 --> 00:43:38,418
relation to that fiat currency.

601
00:43:38,818 --> 00:43:43,078
So I think we can be the first
nation in the world where this can

602
00:43:43,338 --> 00:43:45,448
actually be successfully rolled out.

603
00:43:45,498 --> 00:43:48,978
Where, and it's been done by
previous governments before.

604
00:43:48,988 --> 00:43:52,728
You know, they've scrapped three zeros,
they've changed from the Surinamese

605
00:43:52,768 --> 00:43:54,858
guilder to the Surinamese dollar.

606
00:43:54,868 --> 00:43:56,698
They have done this before.

607
00:43:57,318 --> 00:44:01,728
And with the resources that we have and
the dynamics of our economy as it is.

608
00:44:02,218 --> 00:44:08,548
We can actually do this and just
imagine going to the store and, you

609
00:44:08,548 --> 00:44:16,788
know, the price of a product staying
the same in sats and the cost for

610
00:44:16,788 --> 00:44:21,568
the importer just increasingly going
down, right, in comparison to the

611
00:44:21,738 --> 00:44:23,578
fiat value of an external product.

612
00:44:24,528 --> 00:44:25,908
Uh, of external forces.

613
00:44:26,698 --> 00:44:33,048
And then I have a, a specific look at
energy as well, like energy creation.

614
00:44:33,058 --> 00:44:38,588
We have a hydro dam that creates between,
it's actually very low at the moment, but

615
00:44:38,608 --> 00:44:44,838
it can create, you know, max capacity of
180 megawatt, but we use almost twice that

616
00:44:45,258 --> 00:44:47,148
and the rest is fossil fuel generated.

617
00:44:47,518 --> 00:44:51,808
So we can actually be incentivized
to create more sources of renewables

618
00:44:51,948 --> 00:44:54,078
to be, be able to mine Bitcoin.

619
00:44:54,598 --> 00:44:59,768
To generate more for our own sovereign
wealth, wealth fund, right, from

620
00:44:59,768 --> 00:45:06,998
the income we receive from our
national resources, have the country

621
00:45:07,238 --> 00:45:12,738
completely go on to renewables, I'm
a big fan of nuclear, and I think if

622
00:45:15,263 --> 00:45:20,363
use energy and convert energy
directly into Bitcoin because right

623
00:45:20,363 --> 00:45:26,083
now all miners are still focusing
on a fiat price for energy, right?

624
00:45:26,423 --> 00:45:29,933
They're not power producers.

625
00:45:29,933 --> 00:45:32,743
I'm not aware of many
that are power producers.

626
00:45:33,243 --> 00:45:37,763
So if you're also the power producer,
And you're converting energy

627
00:45:37,763 --> 00:45:41,093
directly into Bitcoin and your
entire economy is based on Bitcoin.

628
00:45:41,703 --> 00:45:47,003
That is, I think that, that, that was
what this, what was made for, right?

629
00:45:47,003 --> 00:45:52,613
This is what, what Satoshi developed
this for is, is an economy completely

630
00:45:52,943 --> 00:45:59,643
based on heart, sound, money, and on
math, not on something created by people.

631
00:45:59,643 --> 00:46:00,753
It's just pure energy.

632
00:46:01,563 --> 00:46:05,613
So that is what we can achieve here and
we can actually achieve it next year.

633
00:46:06,326 --> 00:46:08,796
Okay, so, bunch of questions there.

634
00:46:08,816 --> 00:46:12,676
Like, first of all, what's your stance
on legal tender laws in general?

635
00:46:12,686 --> 00:46:17,331
Like, are you pushing for, legal
tender laws, or can people just

636
00:46:17,331 --> 00:46:21,991
use whatever they want, or how is
the Bitcoin push going to happen?

637
00:46:22,475 --> 00:46:23,525
So right now.

638
00:46:23,955 --> 00:46:28,915
Um, the proposal we actually have at the
central bank that is making Bitcoin legal

639
00:46:28,915 --> 00:46:36,725
tender and, um, as our laws are currently,
it would only mean, um, for them to,

640
00:46:36,955 --> 00:46:40,905
um, so what they would need to do is the
foreign exchange commission, which is

641
00:46:40,905 --> 00:46:46,735
a commission within, um, you know, just
led by government also is also, um, the

642
00:46:46,735 --> 00:46:48,985
head is also, um, placed by government.

643
00:46:49,725 --> 00:46:53,535
They would only need to issue one
decree, so that can be done in a day.

644
00:46:53,795 --> 00:46:57,295
And then Bitcoin would be legal
tender similar to US dollar and euro.

645
00:46:58,375 --> 00:47:04,625
What I'm pushing for is for us to
adopt Bitcoin as a de facto currency.

646
00:47:04,685 --> 00:47:09,935
So to scrap the SRD, which our
central bank doesn't function as

647
00:47:09,935 --> 00:47:11,435
a traditional central bank anyway.

648
00:47:11,695 --> 00:47:14,725
All it does is just take our
national resources, either give it

649
00:47:14,725 --> 00:47:18,915
to government or funnel it back into
the economy and it all goes to shit

650
00:47:18,935 --> 00:47:20,210
or it all goes to someone's head.

651
00:47:20,550 --> 00:47:22,840
Bank account in Switzerland
eventually anyway.

652
00:47:23,470 --> 00:47:28,520
So, there is no reason for us
to have a Surinamese dollar.

653
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,980
There is no, no reason whatsoever
for us to have a Surinamese dollar.

654
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:41,440
If we transition to just Bitcoin being
the unit of account, just Bitcoin being

655
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,150
our currency, just the entire economy.

656
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:51,550
Running on hard decentralized money, why
would we need a local currency still?

657
00:47:52,284 --> 00:47:54,944
Yeah, no, no, totally agree.

658
00:47:56,444 --> 00:47:58,864
And so the election is in 2025.

659
00:47:59,164 --> 00:48:00,214
Is that correct?

660
00:48:02,094 --> 00:48:05,324
And how are you doing in the polls?

661
00:48:05,364 --> 00:48:06,564
Like, what are your chances?

662
00:48:06,604 --> 00:48:07,334
What, what, what?

663
00:48:07,493 --> 00:48:13,173
So, we don't really have official
polls, uh, similar to like in the U.

664
00:48:13,173 --> 00:48:13,463
S.

665
00:48:13,493 --> 00:48:16,913
where you have, or in Western
economies where you have, you know,

666
00:48:16,983 --> 00:48:22,758
like percentages and you see how each,
each, um, candidate is actually, Um,

667
00:48:22,758 --> 00:48:29,748
we have a similar system, um, as, so
you need to form a coalition, and you

668
00:48:29,748 --> 00:48:33,218
need a majority seats in parliament
to be able to elect a president.

669
00:48:34,118 --> 00:48:38,018
Depending on how many votes you
get as your political party, that

670
00:48:38,018 --> 00:48:39,618
determines how many seats you get.

671
00:48:40,218 --> 00:48:46,048
With the new laws, you need about 7, 000
seats, 7, 000 votes for one seat, and

672
00:48:46,048 --> 00:48:48,388
you need 26 seats to elect a president.

673
00:48:49,278 --> 00:48:56,192
So, we need You know, that amount
of votes, or the majority of

674
00:48:56,652 --> 00:49:00,752
votes, to have a significant say
in who becomes the president.

675
00:49:00,942 --> 00:49:05,997
So, over the next, we're already in
July, so over the next nine months,

676
00:49:06,697 --> 00:49:11,097
eight to nine months, now everybody's
starting campaigning, the political

677
00:49:11,097 --> 00:49:12,597
parties are starting campaigning.

678
00:49:13,307 --> 00:49:19,247
Um, and the majority of votes do seem
to, to shift during each election,

679
00:49:19,247 --> 00:49:24,477
depending on how the population feels
about, you know, uh, a political party.

680
00:49:24,477 --> 00:49:28,687
Like, they voted against NDP,
but the NDP still got 60, 000

681
00:49:28,697 --> 00:49:29,887
votes in the last elections.

682
00:49:30,117 --> 00:49:34,637
Um, and the FIAP got about, I
believe it was around 100, 000 votes.

683
00:49:35,567 --> 00:49:41,007
But now with the new voting system, the
weight of votes is different, right?

684
00:49:41,017 --> 00:49:43,127
So now in Paramaribo.

685
00:49:44,107 --> 00:49:47,737
The votes actually weigh more,
so you can get more seats with

686
00:49:47,737 --> 00:49:51,277
the votes in Paramaribo and we
have a younger population voting.

687
00:49:51,317 --> 00:49:53,907
So with the one man, one
vote, my odds are better.

688
00:49:54,617 --> 00:49:57,967
I have a clean track record
and I actually have a plan.

689
00:49:58,797 --> 00:50:03,237
And it all depends, to be
honest, on fundraising.

690
00:50:04,077 --> 00:50:07,917
And what I've heard right now is
that the other political parties

691
00:50:08,057 --> 00:50:12,617
are not raising as much capital as
they had for previous elections.

692
00:50:12,857 --> 00:50:19,642
So they have about, I heard 300 to
400k, right, in budget for, for their

693
00:50:19,642 --> 00:50:27,910
campaign, and you have one, like, the,
the only, like, real challenge is some

694
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:31,460
of these political parties, they have
their own gold concessions, and they

695
00:50:31,460 --> 00:50:35,405
have, you know, drug related ties,
or original, uh, original content.

696
00:50:36,235 --> 00:50:36,805
Sponsors.

697
00:50:37,455 --> 00:50:44,484
So they do have, I think one party has
about 3 million in, in funds to campaign.

698
00:50:44,544 --> 00:50:49,669
So it's all about media exposure, it's
all about, um, Um, getting the message

699
00:50:49,699 --> 00:50:53,199
out there, getting the message out
there properly, so we're preparing

700
00:50:53,199 --> 00:50:58,289
in the same way, we're preparing, you
know, with the same political, um,

701
00:50:58,429 --> 00:51:03,479
political leaders with the same, um,
trying to, to collaborate as well as

702
00:51:03,479 --> 00:51:10,026
much as we can, With the right people,
but it's all about getting the word out

703
00:51:10,026 --> 00:51:11,626
there over the next couple of months.

704
00:51:11,746 --> 00:51:18,776
But right now, I've been in the media,
I, and 98 percent of the comments and

705
00:51:18,776 --> 00:51:24,066
the views, um, you know, for example, one
of the interviews got more than 50, 000

706
00:51:24,066 --> 00:51:27,036
views and, um, comments were positive.

707
00:51:27,576 --> 00:51:29,796
The majority of comments are positive.

708
00:51:29,956 --> 00:51:35,961
Um, they say that I give People hope,
um, something that other parties don't

709
00:51:35,961 --> 00:51:39,251
really give them yet because of their
track record or other leaders don't give

710
00:51:39,251 --> 00:51:43,941
them is that, that sense of hope, um, for
a better future, for a different future,

711
00:51:43,941 --> 00:51:48,071
that things can actually be different
because, you know, something that Bitcoin

712
00:51:48,081 --> 00:51:50,201
also allows is transparency, right?

713
00:51:50,721 --> 00:51:56,321
Everybody in the world will be able
to see where our government spending

714
00:51:56,321 --> 00:51:58,171
goes and how it is, how it's spent.

715
00:51:58,281 --> 00:52:05,091
The entire country will be able to live
audit how money is being spent so you

716
00:52:05,091 --> 00:52:07,741
can, there's less chance of corruption.

717
00:52:08,361 --> 00:52:13,936
So I think, Um, as far as raising campaign
funding, I think we're doing well.

718
00:52:13,966 --> 00:52:16,876
I think I'm on, on the,
on the right track.

719
00:52:16,876 --> 00:52:20,986
I think that's the most, that, that's
our biggest hurdle, raising campaign

720
00:52:20,986 --> 00:52:28,466
funding to actually do, successfully do
our campaign, um, and other hurdles, and

721
00:52:28,536 --> 00:52:34,026
also security, you know, make sure that
I, I, um, don't get killed in the process.

722
00:52:35,396 --> 00:52:37,886
I think those are our
two, two biggest hurdles.

723
00:52:38,705 --> 00:52:44,945
Ah, that sounds scary, but, so if you are
a random, uh, Bitcoin whale and, uh, a fan

724
00:52:44,945 --> 00:52:50,555
of the Bitcoin Infinity Show, as Bitcoin
whales with integrity are, and you want

725
00:52:50,555 --> 00:52:57,555
to help, uh, Surinam, uh, and Maya, uh,
go forward with this, like, is there a

726
00:52:57,555 --> 00:53:02,505
way to, to donate to the campaign or like,
uh, do you have a geyser fund or something

727
00:53:02,505 --> 00:53:06,685
like that, or you're raising Bitcoin
money in some way from around the globe?

728
00:53:07,385 --> 00:53:12,255
Yeah, we have, we accept Bitcoin
for, for the campaign, um, and,

729
00:53:12,515 --> 00:53:17,105
you know, we're also, even with the
campaign, we're doing it differently.

730
00:53:17,685 --> 00:53:23,835
We also want the campaign funding to be
completely transparent and traceable.

731
00:53:23,895 --> 00:53:30,475
So, you know, even our spending, It's
more focused on social impact, more

732
00:53:30,475 --> 00:53:34,925
focused on projects, more focused
on actually changing things for

733
00:53:34,925 --> 00:53:36,865
people heading into the elections.

734
00:53:36,935 --> 00:53:40,705
It's not, you know, not going to be
part, like, what they're doing right now.

735
00:53:40,705 --> 00:53:43,735
They're doing parties and
having shows and that's fine.

736
00:53:43,905 --> 00:53:44,815
Basically what they're doing.

737
00:53:44,815 --> 00:53:50,445
We are going to actually implement
change and Bitcoin adoption is also

738
00:53:50,525 --> 00:53:54,105
a very significant part because
that's, that's changing people's

739
00:53:54,165 --> 00:53:57,825
lives and it's also already visibly
changing people's lives here.

740
00:53:57,865 --> 00:54:01,775
So, um, we have a geyser
fund for Bitcoin Suriname.

741
00:54:02,455 --> 00:54:07,135
I'd say if you're a whale, you can also
support Fiat just supporting the, the,

742
00:54:07,305 --> 00:54:11,545
you know, the, the circular economy here
is supporting Bitcoin adoption here.

743
00:54:12,115 --> 00:54:16,875
Um, and if you want to directly, um,
support the campaign and, you know,

744
00:54:16,875 --> 00:54:20,995
I'm also, this is something that
has never been done globally, right?

745
00:54:21,105 --> 00:54:28,616
So, uh, if you're willing to support,
willing to help, um, reach out, we want to

746
00:54:28,616 --> 00:54:33,416
be as transparent as possible, completely
transparent actually about how funds are

747
00:54:33,416 --> 00:54:37,416
going to be spent and how, how they can
be tracked and, um, everything should

748
00:54:37,426 --> 00:54:39,526
be, you know, easily viewable online.

749
00:54:39,536 --> 00:54:39,596
Thank you.

750
00:54:40,081 --> 00:54:44,761
So if you're a Bitcoin will watching this
show and you want to support the cause

751
00:54:44,761 --> 00:54:51,935
and help get us there, it's about 46
Bitcoin that we need to, to give, give us

752
00:54:52,055 --> 00:54:54,965
like a, an actual shot of winning this.

753
00:54:55,445 --> 00:54:59,015
Um, and, you know, any other
help is, is also welcome.

754
00:54:59,015 --> 00:55:03,775
So just feel free to reach out on,
on Telegram or on on on Twitter.

755
00:55:04,851 --> 00:55:05,621
Fantastic.

756
00:55:05,661 --> 00:55:11,291
Well, and I think on this political side,
we absolutely wish you the best of luck.

757
00:55:11,331 --> 00:55:17,651
And, uh, yeah, I mean, as far as ways
that individuals can get involved, I

758
00:55:17,651 --> 00:55:25,471
mean, Yeah, I, the, the, the on the
ground side in, in Suriname, are you

759
00:55:25,501 --> 00:55:28,261
seeing people pick up on this as well?

760
00:55:28,261 --> 00:55:32,741
Is there any traction coming
with, with Bitcoin on the ground?

761
00:55:32,741 --> 00:55:33,111
Yeah.

762
00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:36,009
Yeah, actually, um, so it took a while.

763
00:55:36,059 --> 00:55:40,439
It was actually very, very slow,
um, especially in the start.

764
00:55:40,479 --> 00:55:42,499
And I think it was 21.

765
00:55:42,529 --> 00:55:47,139
world, like the, the, um, the Island
Swans community, like GG's uh, community

766
00:55:47,139 --> 00:55:51,049
that was very, you know, supportive
of just keep at it, just keep going.

767
00:55:51,129 --> 00:55:54,669
Because early on, it was only two
people that showed up to the meetups.

768
00:55:55,199 --> 00:55:58,979
Now it's, you know, 30 people
at a minimum, a hundred people

769
00:55:59,149 --> 00:56:00,889
that come to our monthly meetups.

770
00:56:01,584 --> 00:56:06,594
Um, you have the Nova Stars Academy,
it's a soccer academy that has

771
00:56:06,604 --> 00:56:11,054
about 800 kids and 800 families that
just launched the FedE federation.

772
00:56:12,479 --> 00:56:17,169
Um, and that are getting a lot more
support right now and working together

773
00:56:17,179 --> 00:56:21,049
with, you know, Bitcoin Beach and
getting a lot of support and advice

774
00:56:21,049 --> 00:56:23,399
and help from, from them as well.

775
00:56:23,459 --> 00:56:26,689
So things are really starting
to pick off right now.

776
00:56:26,729 --> 00:56:27,739
Trezor Academy.

777
00:56:27,779 --> 00:56:32,129
So we're just starting with
Trezor here, um, with education.

778
00:56:32,519 --> 00:56:35,539
We just got approved as a
Meet Premier Bitcoin node.

779
00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:39,909
So we're also starting the Meet
Premier Bitcoin diploma program here.

780
00:56:40,369 --> 00:56:45,879
Um, that will also go to those 800
families and with the sponsorships

781
00:56:46,039 --> 00:56:50,519
that he's recently received, also in
Bitcoin, he's paying his trainers in

782
00:56:50,699 --> 00:56:56,449
Bitcoin and he's scaling that from 800
families to more regions in the country

783
00:56:56,449 --> 00:56:58,089
and to more people, to more kids.

784
00:56:58,729 --> 00:57:02,689
Um, so that's a great project and that's
a great project to support as well.

785
00:57:03,219 --> 00:57:07,969
So we're actually getting a lot more
traction, um, with the Suriname circular

786
00:57:07,969 --> 00:57:13,669
economy, we have the Bitcoinized POSs
here and the clubs and bars actually

787
00:57:13,679 --> 00:57:19,089
want to use those POSs to replace,
because right now it's very hard for

788
00:57:19,089 --> 00:57:23,729
them to do payments during events,
they use coins, um, and they want to

789
00:57:23,729 --> 00:57:28,724
replace the coins with just NFC cards,
so people can just, you know, Use a

790
00:57:28,724 --> 00:57:32,384
NFC card, pay at the bitcoinized POSs.

791
00:57:32,804 --> 00:57:35,994
So we're going to start rolling those out
over the next couple of months as well.

792
00:57:36,794 --> 00:57:40,984
Um, so there's, there's, and
oh, the Solr, the Solr projects

793
00:57:41,294 --> 00:57:42,814
at, at the villages, right?

794
00:57:42,834 --> 00:57:47,284
That's, that, that's um, also life
changing for, for those villages.

795
00:57:47,624 --> 00:57:50,814
So the Solr projects, those,
those could use some help as well.

796
00:57:50,824 --> 00:57:52,374
Those are getting traction too, so.

797
00:57:52,824 --> 00:57:57,824
If you're in, uh, solar or if
you're in mining, uh, we can

798
00:57:57,824 --> 00:57:59,044
use some help there as well.

799
00:57:59,374 --> 00:58:04,524
So, as much, and more bitcoiners are
moving here, there's one that already

800
00:58:04,524 --> 00:58:09,814
moved, um, one that already lives
here, and there's two or three families

801
00:58:09,824 --> 00:58:12,344
that have reached out that actually
want to move in the next couple of

802
00:58:12,354 --> 00:58:16,474
months, so more and more bitcoiners are
also coming, so everybody move here.

803
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:17,470
Yeah.

804
00:58:17,470 --> 00:58:18,500
And well, okay.

805
00:58:18,500 --> 00:58:25,570
So what is life like for an expat,
I guess, uh, uh, in, in Suriname?

806
00:58:25,590 --> 00:58:28,240
Like what's the, what's the
draw for, for Bitcoiners?

807
00:58:28,721 --> 00:58:34,336
Well, um, I think A lot of the, uh,
and this is not just expats, this is

808
00:58:34,346 --> 00:58:39,866
also people that, you know, go to the
Netherlands and even me going into Europe

809
00:58:39,886 --> 00:58:42,256
and, or the US and then coming back here.

810
00:58:42,906 --> 00:58:45,796
Um, you have more freedom here.

811
00:58:47,126 --> 00:58:50,196
You're not a number in, in a machine.

812
00:58:50,206 --> 00:58:52,186
You're actually a person here.

813
00:58:52,186 --> 00:58:57,066
You're, um, you know, not
everything is over regulated.

814
00:58:57,911 --> 00:59:01,661
You know, you don't have scanners and
cameras everywhere, not everything is

815
00:59:02,061 --> 00:59:10,101
digitized and automated, and you know,
your whole life is not run for you.

816
00:59:10,101 --> 00:59:12,011
You actually get to choose your life.

817
00:59:12,031 --> 00:59:18,311
And because it's 93 percent forested,
you can buy a property for like 15k or

818
00:59:18,311 --> 00:59:23,341
30k in the middle of nowhere, build your
house and just live in complete freedom.

819
00:59:24,201 --> 00:59:25,731
Peace, peace and quiet.

820
00:59:26,171 --> 00:59:31,341
Um, and there's not this much, as much,
you know, government overreach as you

821
00:59:31,341 --> 00:59:33,681
have right now happening in Europe.

822
00:59:33,781 --> 00:59:36,511
Um, I was speaking to a family
actually that wants to move here

823
00:59:36,511 --> 00:59:40,711
because of, you know, the amount of
control that is being exerted in,

824
00:59:40,711 --> 00:59:42,916
in, in Western economies right now.

825
00:59:43,416 --> 00:59:49,186
Um, especially with CBD, CBDCs coming
up, um, we have great food, we have a

826
00:59:49,186 --> 00:59:54,296
lot of nature, life is peaceful, you
know, it's not rush, rush, rush, work,

827
00:59:54,296 --> 00:59:56,366
work, work, um, and work to survive.

828
00:59:57,062 --> 01:00:02,672
if you work remote, um, or if you're
working in the oil industry, for example,

829
01:00:02,672 --> 01:00:08,732
or if you have a company that you, that
you want to, uh, run from here, um,

830
01:00:08,732 --> 01:00:13,342
there's a lot of opportunity because there
is so much that hasn't been developed yet.

831
01:00:13,962 --> 01:00:16,562
Like there's, there's such a big
gap in development that there's

832
01:00:16,562 --> 01:00:18,072
a lot of opportunity as well.

833
01:00:18,072 --> 01:00:21,642
So um, life is actually pretty peaceful.

834
01:00:22,293 --> 01:00:24,423
how do someone get residency?

835
01:00:24,423 --> 01:00:27,903
Is it, uh, open visa
program or, or what is it?

836
01:00:28,113 --> 01:00:29,643
Um, yeah, how does, how does someone

837
01:00:30,288 --> 01:00:34,568
So you have, um, you can stay here
for 90 days with a regular tourist

838
01:00:34,568 --> 01:00:40,428
visa, um, but you have, uh, you
can request a longer term visa, um,

839
01:00:40,428 --> 01:00:41,798
and that's just the process here.

840
01:00:41,798 --> 01:00:43,848
You can, um, check online.

841
01:00:43,968 --> 01:00:46,758
I think I posted the link once,
but I'll, I'll, you know, I

842
01:00:46,758 --> 01:00:49,038
can re share, um, if necessary.

843
01:00:49,618 --> 01:00:51,068
Um, and basically you can just.

844
01:00:51,828 --> 01:00:56,498
It requests a longer stay and then I
think it's a two or three year visa that

845
01:00:56,698 --> 01:00:59,008
you can get to just work and live here.

846
01:00:59,535 --> 01:01:06,055
you don't have to invest 100, 000 or any
of those requirements to be able to get a

847
01:01:06,105 --> 01:01:08,335
longer term visa or longer term stay here.

848
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:09,560
No, that's nice.

849
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,680
I mean, we're, we're big
advocates of, uh, yeah.

850
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:17,810
At least, at least exploring, uh,
second passport options and, uh, or, or

851
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:19,490
residency options and things like that.

852
01:01:19,490 --> 01:01:22,520
So, interesting one, uh,
I think we'll have to.

853
01:01:23,415 --> 01:01:25,795
See about getting our way
to Suriname at some point.

854
01:01:25,795 --> 01:01:28,515
And you were mentioning there's
a conference coming up here

855
01:01:28,525 --> 01:01:30,355
fairly soon before we started.

856
01:01:30,955 --> 01:01:34,014
Yeah, November 7 to 9.

857
01:01:34,605 --> 01:01:38,905
We have, um, the first day is Nostr
Day, uh, the second day is Bitcoin

858
01:01:38,915 --> 01:01:42,045
Day, and then the third day we have
a Nostr Beach Festival because we

859
01:01:42,045 --> 01:01:48,235
do believe that it's a nice way
to have freedom on communications,

860
01:01:48,625 --> 01:01:53,695
um, and, you know, and also an easy
way to start using Bitcoin as well.

861
01:01:53,695 --> 01:01:56,109
We like, uh, we like how
you can just zap people.

862
01:01:56,410 --> 01:01:56,750
Right.

863
01:01:56,870 --> 01:02:01,600
Um, and it's a playful way to get,
to get introduced to Bitcoin as well.

864
01:02:01,630 --> 01:02:05,660
So, um, that's 7 to 9 November.

865
01:02:05,930 --> 01:02:10,630
Um, we have partial conference and
partial side events where people will be

866
01:02:10,630 --> 01:02:12,420
actually interacting and using Bitcoin.

867
01:02:12,860 --> 01:02:19,090
So it's more of a practical approach to
teaching the locals how they can actually

868
01:02:19,100 --> 01:02:22,090
use Bitcoin and how it benefits them.

869
01:02:22,781 --> 01:02:23,631
Yeah, that's great.

870
01:02:23,661 --> 01:02:29,051
I mean, the local conferences, I mean,
they don't get as much press or as much

871
01:02:29,061 --> 01:02:33,171
international visitation, but they're
just as important as the big conferences

872
01:02:33,191 --> 01:02:35,211
that you get tons of Bitcoiners to, right?

873
01:02:35,211 --> 01:02:39,151
But you do want people to
come from abroad if possible,

874
01:02:39,236 --> 01:02:40,016
definitely.

875
01:02:40,126 --> 01:02:44,146
We're hoping we're hoping to get at
least 300 to 500 Bitcoiners here.

876
01:02:44,146 --> 01:02:47,626
So start packing your bags and
booking a ticket if you can.

877
01:02:47,716 --> 01:02:53,701
And, you know, come support us here and
then help because as it also you You

878
01:02:53,701 --> 01:02:58,771
know, you'll have the possibility to
pay with Bitcoin at all the restaurants

879
01:02:58,771 --> 01:03:03,241
surrounding the conference, at all
the side events, so you'll be able to

880
01:03:03,251 --> 01:03:08,981
actually use Bitcoin and inject it into
our circular economy here and have people

881
01:03:08,981 --> 01:03:14,011
actually benefit directly, you know, and
see the benefits directly from Bitcoin.

882
01:03:14,051 --> 01:03:16,621
So yeah, start booking your tickets.

883
01:03:17,843 --> 01:03:18,373
Awesome.

884
01:03:18,413 --> 01:03:21,843
And, uh, you know, I think, uh, one
other thing you mentioned there is,

885
01:03:21,843 --> 01:03:25,663
uh, is, um, uh, the, the other piece
that I think we wanted to touch on

886
01:03:25,663 --> 01:03:27,570
with you was, was you mentioned Nostr.

887
01:03:27,570 --> 01:03:31,913
And, uh, can you explain what
you do with Dataless Labs?

888
01:03:31,913 --> 01:03:35,293
So we know, we know there's a bit
of Nostr there, a bit of, uh, uh,

889
01:03:35,293 --> 01:03:36,623
Bitcoin development stuff there.

890
01:03:36,623 --> 01:03:38,263
What, what goes on at Dataless Labs?

891
01:03:38,323 --> 01:03:42,013
We've also got our friend, uh, uh,
Ralphie, who we know is involved in that.

892
01:03:42,013 --> 01:03:42,593
So shout out

893
01:03:43,003 --> 01:03:43,983
Our band member

894
01:03:44,283 --> 01:03:45,183
our band member.

895
01:03:45,253 --> 01:03:45,523
Yeah,

896
01:03:46,153 --> 01:03:46,993
for our other band.

897
01:03:47,813 --> 01:03:48,483
our next gig.

898
01:03:48,523 --> 01:03:48,663
So.

899
01:03:49,343 --> 01:03:50,483
See you there, Ralphie.

900
01:03:50,603 --> 01:03:53,273
But, uh, yeah, please,
please, uh, tell us all about

901
01:03:53,701 --> 01:04:00,921
Yeah, so, um, I think I got into Nostr,
um, pretty early on, uh, there weren't

902
01:04:01,181 --> 01:04:05,531
much people on there, it wasn't much
activity happening on it, it took a

903
01:04:05,531 --> 01:04:09,211
couple of months for it to get some
traction, that was, um, I think last

904
01:04:09,211 --> 01:04:13,981
year after Nostrica is when, when
more people started, um, hopping on.

905
01:04:14,601 --> 01:04:20,281
And I think I, I joined Nostr because
something Jack posted, I think Jack posted

906
01:04:20,451 --> 01:04:24,351
on, on Twitter that, you know, you should
check out Nostr and that's when I joined

907
01:04:24,351 --> 01:04:28,471
Nostr and actually that was one of the
first conversations I had on Nostr was

908
01:04:28,471 --> 01:04:34,281
about, I think I asked them if he smoked
weed, um, but that's basically where I

909
01:04:34,301 --> 01:04:38,041
think the whole Bitcoin community or most
of the developers in the Bitcoin community

910
01:04:38,061 --> 01:04:40,091
and everyone is, was, was joining.

911
01:04:40,091 --> 01:04:40,156
for joining.

912
01:04:40,776 --> 01:04:49,506
Um, and we incorporated Daedalus Labs
in 2023 in May, and it was actually the

913
01:04:49,506 --> 01:04:54,696
continuation of, you know, me wanting
to innovate in the Bitcoin space,

914
01:04:54,766 --> 01:04:59,526
wanting to be in it full time and just
dedicate my skills, um, you know, being

915
01:04:59,526 --> 01:05:04,866
capital market skills and, and, um,
tech, finance, and the intersection of

916
01:05:04,866 --> 01:05:06,386
financial structures and all of that.

917
01:05:07,101 --> 01:05:12,131
And trying to build also part of this
new world, this new system, right?

918
01:05:12,591 --> 01:05:14,781
Um, and that's how
Dayless Labs got started.

919
01:05:14,781 --> 01:05:20,211
And we started focusing, like I took a
couple of steps back, focused on we as

920
01:05:20,291 --> 01:05:23,331
humans, what are our basic needs, right?

921
01:05:23,461 --> 01:05:26,511
Um, and one of our basic needs
is a roof over our heads.

922
01:05:26,951 --> 01:05:32,221
Um, and one of the things that
ties all of us still to banks

923
01:05:32,731 --> 01:05:34,761
is a mortgage, our house, right?

924
01:05:34,771 --> 01:05:40,311
Because not everyone has A significant
amount of money or capital ready to be

925
01:05:40,311 --> 01:05:46,151
able to just cash out and buy their house
and, um, be rid of the bank and live

926
01:05:46,151 --> 01:05:47,841
completely on a Bitcoin standard, right?

927
01:05:48,701 --> 01:05:51,951
No, and houses are expensive
because money doesn't work

928
01:05:52,841 --> 01:05:53,501
exactly.

929
01:05:53,791 --> 01:05:55,971
Like, we've been, we've
been outpriced, right?

930
01:05:56,001 --> 01:05:57,041
These things have been overinflated.

931
01:05:58,621 --> 01:06:02,771
So I started looking at, um, like
traditional real estate investment trusts

932
01:06:02,791 --> 01:06:07,291
like Blackstone, and those are also
structured and to, to like have this

933
01:06:07,321 --> 01:06:14,211
incentive model to make real estate super,
um, expensive and owned by, um, you know,

934
01:06:14,251 --> 01:06:19,631
just by the, the, the REIT itself and
have most of the profits of these, these

935
01:06:19,641 --> 01:06:25,281
properties flow back to a small amount
of people, like the top 1%, um, right.

936
01:06:25,281 --> 01:06:28,633
And, you know, you look at these capital
market structures, you look at, You

937
01:06:28,633 --> 01:06:32,166
look at the traditional exchanges,
you look at how those companies are

938
01:06:32,166 --> 01:06:36,586
structured and where the profits flow
and where the profits of the big banks

939
01:06:36,646 --> 01:06:41,736
flow and how money flows, and it's all
structured to flow back to the top 1%.

940
01:06:42,956 --> 01:06:52,016
And then how do you change and
completely rethink that model and create

941
01:06:52,036 --> 01:06:54,686
something that actually works for you?

942
01:06:54,966 --> 01:07:01,146
People, how it works for everyone and that
it, the returns also flow back to people.

943
01:07:01,856 --> 01:07:09,296
And if you add Bitcoin as a, um, uh,
like a component of your portfolio

944
01:07:09,296 --> 01:07:13,646
in a REIT actually, you completely
change the dynamics of a REIT.

945
01:07:14,066 --> 01:07:17,296
And you can actually finance
property differently.

946
01:07:17,296 --> 01:07:19,086
You can own property differently.

947
01:07:19,226 --> 01:07:22,996
Um, you can finance commercial
property differently.

948
01:07:23,396 --> 01:07:27,436
And have the returns actually
flow back to the community instead

949
01:07:27,436 --> 01:07:29,376
of just, you know, top 10%.

950
01:07:29,416 --> 01:07:34,806
So we structured it as, as
Bitcoin Maxis, as Bitcoiners.

951
01:07:35,426 --> 01:07:40,266
Um, and it's, it's kind of like
similar to, you know, MicroStrategy

952
01:07:40,266 --> 01:07:44,076
right now is selling shares, buying
Bitcoin, holding it in treasury.

953
01:07:44,796 --> 01:07:49,106
If you sell shares of
a REIT, Buy a property.

954
01:07:49,116 --> 01:07:53,806
Let's say a property is 100k and
you also buy 100k in Bitcoin, right?

955
01:07:53,836 --> 01:08:00,926
So the REIT, the community holds the
property and an equal amount of Bitcoin in

956
01:08:00,926 --> 01:08:05,036
its portfolio in, um, in, uh, collateral.

957
01:08:05,486 --> 01:08:10,386
So you have that, that is your, your,
your, your, those are your assets.

958
01:08:11,146 --> 01:08:16,566
And instead of having to charge, you
know, 10, 12 percent interest, like

959
01:08:16,566 --> 01:08:23,026
here, uh, with the bank, for example,
the, or needing a down payment, you can

960
01:08:23,026 --> 01:08:29,136
actually just have a user, uh, person, you
know, someone that wants to buy a house.

961
01:08:29,566 --> 01:08:35,596
Be able to just buy equity and build
equity over time in that property

962
01:08:35,616 --> 01:08:40,386
by just paying their, what would be
monthly rent or a monthly mortgage.

963
01:08:40,676 --> 01:08:44,846
Instead, they just in a rent
to own model, just buy equity

964
01:08:44,856 --> 01:08:46,216
in that property over time.

965
01:08:46,216 --> 01:08:47,126
So you build wealth.

966
01:08:47,621 --> 01:08:52,531
And if you want to, because on average,
if you're buying like a studio, you're,

967
01:08:52,621 --> 01:08:57,261
you know, early on, you buy a studio
apartment, maybe later on after 10

968
01:08:57,261 --> 01:09:00,441
years, you buy a two or three bedroom
house, you want to build a family.

969
01:09:00,751 --> 01:09:04,811
So you're not staying there for
that 20 or 30 year mortgage anyway.

970
01:09:05,516 --> 01:09:10,736
And you can take the wealth that
you've built just port it into

971
01:09:10,736 --> 01:09:12,686
another property, into the ecosystem.

972
01:09:13,236 --> 01:09:18,046
Right, so we're creating a community way
for people to own and finance property.

973
01:09:18,426 --> 01:09:22,806
And if you look at commercial property,
for example, we have one, um, one

974
01:09:22,806 --> 01:09:24,586
that we're piloting here in Suriname.

975
01:09:24,666 --> 01:09:26,796
It's right directly
next to the shore base.

976
01:09:27,806 --> 01:09:32,641
The income from that property from
corporations that rent, you know, Uh,

977
01:09:32,701 --> 01:09:37,921
space in that building that just gets
divided to the, to the community as well.

978
01:09:37,921 --> 01:09:40,201
So it's divided to the
shareholders of the REIT too.

979
01:09:40,961 --> 01:09:44,121
So you create actual sources of income.

980
01:09:45,031 --> 01:09:51,071
But I do think that in time, as this
grows and spreads, that it will also

981
01:09:51,111 --> 01:09:54,801
change how you value real estate.

982
01:09:55,046 --> 01:09:55,296
Right?

983
01:09:55,296 --> 01:09:59,676
Because now it won't, like the
incentive model has changed completely.

984
01:09:59,676 --> 01:10:03,006
It's not real estate needs to
appreciate, appreciate, appreciate,

985
01:10:03,006 --> 01:10:06,246
appreciate, like, or it gets inflated,
inflated, inflated over time.

986
01:10:06,856 --> 01:10:10,346
The value will go back
to its utility, right?

987
01:10:10,346 --> 01:10:14,846
Because now you're actually just
bringing it back to its, its natural

988
01:10:15,006 --> 01:10:17,886
use, where like our grandparents, right?

989
01:10:17,886 --> 01:10:21,711
It was just, A home, and you could buy
it with a, with a couple of months of

990
01:10:21,721 --> 01:10:26,231
salary, that is where it needs to go
back to, and I think by adding Bitcoin

991
01:10:26,241 --> 01:10:31,621
to the mix, making it easier for people
to, to just acquire it and actually

992
01:10:31,621 --> 01:10:36,671
use it as a home and not, you know,
need to be in debt and be a debt slave

993
01:10:36,681 --> 01:10:41,611
for the entire life, that they can
actually go back to its utility value.

994
01:10:41,661 --> 01:10:44,881
So I'm very excited to see
how that evolves over time.

995
01:10:45,830 --> 01:10:46,860
Uh, it's fantastic

996
01:10:47,295 --> 01:10:52,005
Yeah, Nostr is, we're building it as a
Nostr client because we do think that,

997
01:10:52,095 --> 01:10:57,375
you know, this is the infrastructure for
free internet as internet was supposed

998
01:10:57,405 --> 01:11:03,065
to be in the 1990s, but turned out to
be this, you know, centralized, big tech

999
01:11:03,085 --> 01:11:09,185
controlled, Um, you know, environment
instead of actual free and open internet.

1000
01:11:09,265 --> 01:11:16,075
So I think with Bitcoin being the
payment layer and, you know, Nostr

1001
01:11:16,095 --> 01:11:20,415
being the communications layer, I
do think this is the foundation for

1002
01:11:20,435 --> 01:11:25,195
that dream that we had in the 90s of
actually having free and open internet.

1003
01:11:25,505 --> 01:11:30,445
And if we build our economies on it,
if we build our, you know, how you

1004
01:11:30,445 --> 01:11:36,835
own a house and everything, On these
new standards, that's going to change

1005
01:11:37,095 --> 01:11:42,215
the dynamics of everything and disrupt
big tech and old financial systems.

1006
01:11:42,235 --> 01:11:44,835
And I do think this is,
this is where Bitcoin wins.

1007
01:11:44,945 --> 01:11:47,665
Like, this is the transition
that we've been waiting for.

1008
01:11:48,413 --> 01:11:50,333
power to the people, literally.

1009
01:11:51,303 --> 01:11:56,943
So yeah, hashtag hyper not Nostrification,
hashtag hyperbitcoinization.

1010
01:11:57,943 --> 01:12:01,053
My eyes, it's a, it has been an
absolute pleasure having you on the

1011
01:12:01,053 --> 01:12:03,153
show and we wish you all the best.

1012
01:12:04,123 --> 01:12:08,993
Good luck in the upcoming elections
and what not, and yeah, keep on

1013
01:12:08,993 --> 01:12:13,553
keeping on, keep fighting the good
fight, vive la resistance, uh, yeah.

1014
01:12:15,243 --> 01:12:15,333
that.

1015
01:12:15,333 --> 01:12:19,582
Anywhere else you'd like to direct
our viewers and listeners to where

1016
01:12:19,582 --> 01:12:20,722
can, where can they find you?

1017
01:12:20,722 --> 01:12:23,062
Where can they, where can they
support your campaign, all of this.

1018
01:12:23,545 --> 01:12:25,585
Um, well, they can find me on Nostr.

1019
01:12:25,815 --> 01:12:29,455
Um, I'm, I'm on Nostr
more than I'm on Twitter.

1020
01:12:29,875 --> 01:12:33,295
Um, they can find me on, on, or Twitter,
X, whatever you want to call it.

1021
01:12:33,305 --> 01:12:35,215
You can find me on that platform as well.

1022
01:12:35,705 --> 01:12:40,715
Um, and I'd like to direct them to,
you know, the Bitcoin Stratum, uh,

1023
01:12:40,775 --> 01:12:45,335
Geyser Fund, the Circular Economy,
the Telegram Group, um, and Novastars.

1024
01:12:45,336 --> 01:12:47,825
Novastars, it's, it's an amazing project.

1025
01:12:47,865 --> 01:12:50,595
Just check that one out on Geyser as well.

1026
01:12:50,805 --> 01:12:56,495
And, you know, if you can If you want
to reach me, just DM on onX, um, that

1027
01:12:56,495 --> 01:13:03,305
just can tend to get a bit, um, busy,
but, uh, in the Telegram group, I'm,

1028
01:13:03,335 --> 01:13:08,365
I'm pretty active there, because I'm,
Telegram has been my life for, like,

1029
01:13:08,595 --> 01:13:12,415
Bitcoin on Telegram has been my life
for, I don't know, a decade now, or

1030
01:13:12,415 --> 01:13:16,205
over a decade now, so you can, you
can usually find me there as well.

1031
01:13:17,117 --> 01:13:17,567
Awesome.

1032
01:13:17,567 --> 01:13:20,747
We'll include all the relevant
links in the description and,

1033
01:13:20,747 --> 01:13:23,987
uh, the, as an, as an aside, uh.

1034
01:13:24,597 --> 01:13:30,197
We would love to have the video and
the audio directly hosted on Nostr.

1035
01:13:30,467 --> 01:13:34,147
Still haven't figured that out yet,
but all the links and everything

1036
01:13:34,147 --> 01:13:37,117
will be posted on Nostr, so
you'll be able to get that there.

1037
01:13:38,757 --> 01:13:43,167
Maja, this has been fantastic,
and good luck with the campaign.

1038
01:13:43,177 --> 01:13:47,477
Hopefully we'll be in touch, uh,
uh, you know, between now and then,

1039
01:13:47,547 --> 01:13:50,387
but, uh, best of luck until then.

1040
01:13:50,487 --> 01:13:53,967
And this has been the
Bitcoin Infinity Show.

1041
01:13:54,467 --> 01:13:55,377
Thank you very much for listening.