Plan B Passports with Katie the Russian - Bitcoin Infinity Show #140

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Katie, welcome to the
Bitcoin Infinity Show.

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Thank you for joining us.

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Absolutely happy to be here, guys.

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Yeah, happy to have you here, Katie.

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You were known as Katie the Russian, but
I prefer to call you Katie the sailor.

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Nice.

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I like it.

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All right, since borders
are bullshit anyway.

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Yeah, Katie, welcome to
the Bitcoin Infinity Show.

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We haven't had you on before, which
is, we're ashamed of that fact, so

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we'd like to give our listeners a
TLDR on KT and Plan B passports.

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There's a lot of Plan Bs in Bitcoin,
but this is Plan B passports.

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And can you tell our listeners your
amazing, first of all, the amazing story

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about you, how you ended up doing what
you're doing and what it is you're doing.

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Absolutely.

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So, Katie, the Russian, you can
probably guess that I was born and

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raised in Russia, and I moved to the U.

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S.

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just eight years ago, uh,
as a professional athlete.

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I was in the national team of
Russia in sailing, in the top

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20 world ranking in sailing.

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So America decided that I'm good enough
to live here and compete for America.

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So I got my green card here, um,
through extraordinary abilities.

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And, uh, along the way, I got
scammed by an immigration lawyer,

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so I had to self represent myself.

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I paid the lawyer, she quit answering
my calls, she quit answering my emails,

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I was halfway through the process.

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So I had to figure everything out
from scratch, reach out to immigration

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units, uh, find my way to find my
application number and everything.

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And I self represented.

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Well, as I was doing it, I realized
that I'm kind of good at that stuff.

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And I was playing, already playing
this game of jurisdictional

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arbitrage on a very small scale.

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Basically, I could open a bank
account in the United States

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without a social security number.

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As a citizen, almost impossible to do.

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As a foreigner, quite easy though.

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Also with driver licenses.

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You get pulled over, you show them
a foreign driver license, 90 percent

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chance they will never send the ticket.

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Because it just costs more to send
the ticket to a foreign country

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than to not send the ticket at all
and just let this Russian girl go.

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So I was already playing this
game and I was like, there

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must be more to this concept.

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I was already becoming a
Bitcoiner, and then I stumbled

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upon this concept of flag theory.

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So the concept of flag theory,
my definition of it, as a way to

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limit your dependency on any one
particular state, By obtaining

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second citizenship, residency, etc.

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So, flags would be, there are different
kinds of flags, like the most important

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flag, of course, is bitcoin, the
cyberspace, and your money in cyberspace.

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But then, you have other instruments
like, passport, aka citizenship,

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residency permit, bank account in a
foreign country, a bug out home in a

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foreign country, and things like that.

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So, uh, we stack sats and we stack
flags, you can see it on my screen.

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That's beautiful.

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And I think, I think one question that
comes to mind to many people when they

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hear flag theory is like, yeah, but
that's just for the super rich, isn't it?

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So like, is flag theory for everyone
or is it just for wealthy people?

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So originally it was definitely
a game that only wealthy played,

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like, let's go 30 years back.

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The, the reason that flag theory actually
came out is for asset protection, right?

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Because people realize they don't want to
have all their money in the same basket.

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They want to have money offshore in
case their home country jurisdiction

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comes after them and try to seize.

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Well, now we have the best asset
protection mechanism in the world

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called SHA 256, and guess what?

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Uh, we don't need the offshore
bank accounts anymore.

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We have the better solution for
that, but we still have, we still

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live in a physical space ourselves.

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So now the whole game of jurisdictional
arbitrage and flat theory is more

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about the meat space, physical space.

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Like, for example, many of Bitcoiners
talk about 6102, and while they

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can't come and seize your assets,
they can come physically after you.

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So a lot of Bitcoiners just want to have
this second country to call home in case

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they need it, and in case their passport
gets revoked, they just want a way out.

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So back then, the offshore accounts
were clearly for ultra wealthy.

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Now, everybody wants to have this.

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Insurance policy, a residency permit,
which can cost you less than 2, 000.

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Um, sometimes a real estate out
of country, which for 20, 000,

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you might be able to buy land in
Costa Rica and things like that.

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So it is much more pleb friendly
these days, let's say that.

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Um, yeah, and that's what I've
been doing for the last five

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years, helping Bitcoiners to stack
flags, obtain second citizenship

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or residency for their benefit at.

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NBPassport.

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com,

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Yeah, the first time I talked to you about
this, uh, I believe you, you, options were

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sort of, uh, mostly West Indian islands.

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Like, like this was.

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Way back, that's maybe like
four years back or something.

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So there's like Antigua
and Barbuda, I think.

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And, uh, what was the other one?

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St.

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Kitts and Nevis or something
is some, uh, Caribbean islands,

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yeah,

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yeah, but, but, uh, but there are
plenty more options now, right?

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yeah, I obviously cater my
offerings to Bitcoiners, like I

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see what Bitcoiners want, and I
open up those programs for them.

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Caribbean islands are still the most
popular jurisdictions in the world for

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citizenship by investment programs,
simply because they've been around,

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they're trusted, they're strong passports.

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Very straightforward, um, unfortunately
their processing time has been

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getting bigger and bigger, so
it used to be like 5 6 months.

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Now it's more like a year and a half.

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Um, so that's, that's a downside.

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But you guys definitely
read Sovereign Individual.

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They talk a lot about the Sovereign
Individual thesis, where the nation

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states will start competing for the
citizens and the fruits of their labor

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and their capital by providing the
better services at better price, right?

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So you've, I have a lot of
hopium in this direction.

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This is what I live and breathe.

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So I hope more and more
countries will get.

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On this, into this free market
competition for citizens and

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capital and fruits of their labor.

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And once we have like this
free market emerge, that's

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how we have two races, right?

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The price race to the bottom
and the quality race to the top.

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Um, just a regular free market behavior.

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So, right now, I work with 10
jurisdictions for citizenship by

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investment programs, and few are
coming out, few are shutting down.

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It's a constant geopolitical battle,
like, EU really doesn't like the

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citizenship by investment programs.

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Although Malta has one, Portugal has
a golden visa through investment,

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Greece, Italy, like, they don't like
that capital and talent has been

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leaving EU and they want to control it.

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So far, they're like trying to prevent
new programs to come out and old

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programs to become stricter and more
expensive, but that's all they can do.

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And with EU losing power, I don't
think we'll see them shutting

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anything down in the future.

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And Malta just won, um.

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In a, like, court, in a UN
court, that they can, in fact,

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run this program, no problem.

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So, um, yeah, I'm catering to Bitcoiners.

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It's Caribbean islands of interest
right now, Portugal is of interest,

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Turkey is of interest as well, and
now, of course, El Salvador, the

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Bitcoin country, um, becoming a
top, a large topic in the industry.

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I mean, a tip to anyone working with
this stuff in the EU is, uh, uh,

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a way to not scare away all your
talented, uh, citizens would be to

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not aim to be the Soviet Union 2.

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0.

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That would be a good start.

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So, like, stop the bullshit, please.

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tell me about it.

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You mentioned Portugal there, uh,
and Portugal's, the golden visa

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there has changed a lot, uh, I think,
just, just in the last year here.

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Like, can you tell us more about that?

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Yeah, first of all, the price has
been changing over the last five

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years, but also the requirements.

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So originally you could buy any half a
million dollar plus real estate anywhere

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in Portugal and you would be eligible.

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Well, then they said, no, you cannot
buy real estate in a highly populated

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areas like Lisbon, let's say.

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After that, they said, well, you can't
actually invest in real estate anymore.

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You can only invest.

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In a fund.

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Well, funds started investing in
real estate, and they keep thinking

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that foreigners are the reason
that, uh, real estate is going up.

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I don't think it necessarily is.

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They should ask BlackRock, they
should ask all money printers around

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and maybe they'll find the reason
why all the prices are going up.

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Anyway, now you have to invest in a
fund and the fund has to invest at

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least 60 percent of their, of their full
fund into local companies in Portugal.

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So now it is actually getting
interesting because out of 100 percent

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fund, you can invest 40 percent
straight into Bitcoin Self Custody.

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And then 60 percent you can invest in
a local company that runs the Sailors,

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Michael Sailors Playbook, where their
whole balance sheet is in Bitcoin and

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their operational expenses are very low.

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So now you basically keep your
full Bitcoin price exposure while

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obtaining a golden visa, and then
after seven years you get your money

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back, you get the profits back,
you pay 10 percent of the revenue.

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Performance fee to the fund and you
have a citizenship at this point.

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So it's a really nice way to keep
your Bitcoin price exposure while

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also obtaining Portugal citizenship.

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So it solves the opportunity cost of this
of acquiring citizenship, which is great.

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The biggest problem for my clients, right?

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And I get it.

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I'm a Bitcoin or Maxie too.

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So I understand that selling
Bitcoin in order to buy citizenship

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hurts, but Portugal could
be a good solution for that.

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yeah, Portugal is still in the EU, but
we have an outermost region of the EU,

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which is, uh, Madeira and, um, similar.

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There's a handful of other
islands that go in the same,

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same label that, uh, that are.

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Favorable to Bitcoiners.

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I mean, Madeira now has like almost
150 retailers except and restaurants

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and stuff, accepting Bitcoin.

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So that movement, uh, I was fortunate
enough to, to, uh, start the whole

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thing off two years ago with this
fantastic group of people and Bitcoin

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Atlantis was a big deal for, for
us, uh, here, uh, in, when was it?

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March, beginning of March.

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And since then, it's, it's just
been growing and it's great to see.

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And with this, uh, golden visa
opportunity being, being more and more,

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um, yeah, sounding better and better,
Madeira sounds better than before.

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yeah, I now see a lot of
interest towards Portugal.

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Let's see how it all realizes.

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I'm, I'm super into this
whole micro Bitcoin economies.

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Like I just got back from El Salvador
and I was at Bitcoin Beach and we

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could pay in Bitcoin for coffee.

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It was pretty sick.

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Um, just guys selling me local
coffee and like, yeah, here's

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my QR code and the money.

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Yeah.

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And, uh, it, it truly is
global and you can experience

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that when you travel around.

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Like I paid for a shave in, in
Buenos Aires, uh, two weeks ago.

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Like, can't tell, but,
but I did it anyway.

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Um, So, so, uh, no, it's just
great to see, uh, these small

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communities, um, growing.

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Uh, speaking of El Salvador,
I'm going there in January.

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Are you coming too by any chance?

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I will really try.

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I've got lots of end of January.

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There's conference in the
beginning of January though.

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Uh, is there, uh, yeah, I'm going
to the plan, plan B is, no, it's the

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beginning of, uh, end of January.

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I, I

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Oh, that's nice.

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Then I might actually be able
to come at the end of January.

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Um, yeah, I, I definitely
planning a few more trips.

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Um, I, I was supposed to go just for
48 hours to scoop some stuff for work.

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Um, and then I had to extend my
trip for another two days so I

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could take a surf lesson and stuff.

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And it's an easy flight for me, it's
two hours to our flight and I'm there.

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Uh, so the, I think it was like a
half a year ago to a year ago that

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hel announced a new program, uh, for.

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That, that he, he would give away, um,
citizenship to, to interesting people,

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00:14:28,948 --> 00:14:31,278
basically, from all over the globe.

229
00:14:31,308 --> 00:14:34,738
And there was another program,
I mean, there was like a, a 1

230
00:14:34,738 --> 00:14:37,988
million investment in the country
would grant you citizenship, but

231
00:14:37,988 --> 00:14:39,888
there was also some other program.

232
00:14:40,098 --> 00:14:41,048
Do you have an update?

233
00:14:42,123 --> 00:14:45,373
Oh yeah, I can run you through
all the immigration offerings

234
00:14:45,413 --> 00:14:47,103
that El Salvador has right now.

235
00:14:47,733 --> 00:14:53,063
Um, so, the easiest program, if you're
just looking to relocate to El Salvador,

236
00:14:53,063 --> 00:14:56,733
you just need a residency permit, it's
not necessarily that you want a passport.

237
00:14:57,273 --> 00:15:00,023
You come to El Salvador,
you open up a company.

238
00:15:00,083 --> 00:15:03,823
As an entrepreneur, you are now
eligible for a residency permit.

239
00:15:04,443 --> 00:15:09,563
Um, for your business activity in the
country, you will actually have to spend

240
00:15:09,873 --> 00:15:15,073
9 months in the country this year in order
to renew your residency permit next year.

241
00:15:15,373 --> 00:15:18,173
So for those just relocating
to the Bitcoin country,

242
00:15:18,433 --> 00:15:20,243
that's a very easy solution.

243
00:15:20,293 --> 00:15:24,683
Cost under 2, 000, come and stay,
live there for 5 years, after

244
00:15:24,683 --> 00:15:26,133
that apply for naturalization.

245
00:15:26,723 --> 00:15:29,213
Ask a language exam, get a passport.

246
00:15:29,633 --> 00:15:34,853
Takes five plus years, some
paperwork, but suits those who want

247
00:15:34,863 --> 00:15:37,243
to relocate full time to El Salvador.

248
00:15:37,913 --> 00:15:40,063
Now then, they launched
Citizenship by Investment

249
00:15:40,073 --> 00:15:42,293
program, which I'm a huge fan of.

250
00:15:43,243 --> 00:15:46,633
It is much higher price than
anything in the industry right

251
00:15:46,633 --> 00:15:48,093
now, even higher than Malta.

252
00:15:48,513 --> 00:15:53,128
It is basically catered to those who want
Who want to contribute to El Salvador?

253
00:15:53,128 --> 00:15:54,958
It's a 1 million for passport.

254
00:15:54,998 --> 00:15:58,418
It's the quickest processing
time you see in the industry.

255
00:15:58,418 --> 00:16:00,718
Under two months you can get
the citizenship, go through the

256
00:16:00,718 --> 00:16:02,188
whole due diligence process.

257
00:16:03,158 --> 00:16:07,648
Uh, it is catered to those who wants to
say, hey, I want a second citizenship

258
00:16:07,648 --> 00:16:11,428
that is a powerful passport because
El Salvador grants you visa free

259
00:16:11,428 --> 00:16:15,768
access to EU, Schengen area, all of
Latin America, some Eastern European

260
00:16:15,768 --> 00:16:19,208
countries that you don't have access
to on your EU or American passport.

261
00:16:19,208 --> 00:16:19,223
All right.

262
00:16:19,983 --> 00:16:23,773
Um, but it is for those who like,
look, I support what Bukele is doing.

263
00:16:23,953 --> 00:16:28,683
I see a great transformation in El
Salvador and I want to contribute

264
00:16:28,683 --> 00:16:30,023
to that and get a passport.

265
00:16:30,503 --> 00:16:36,243
So, I'm a big fan of this program
and, and I actually support this

266
00:16:36,243 --> 00:16:37,993
whole 1 million price check.

267
00:16:38,563 --> 00:16:42,653
It is not a direct competition to
other programs in the industry of

268
00:16:42,683 --> 00:16:46,563
citizenship by investment program,
but it is a very unique thing that El

269
00:16:46,563 --> 00:16:48,743
Salvador can pull off quite easily.

270
00:16:49,493 --> 00:16:54,313
And then the new program that Naibu Kelly
announced about six months ago on his

271
00:16:54,313 --> 00:16:59,623
Twitter that 5, 000 passports are going to
be given to highly skilled professionals.

272
00:17:00,683 --> 00:17:05,423
So, it's again coming back to
sovereign individual thesis.

273
00:17:05,743 --> 00:17:08,763
Like, of course they want to
compete for your capital through

274
00:17:08,763 --> 00:17:10,273
citizenship by investment program.

275
00:17:10,273 --> 00:17:12,173
They want you to donate to the country.

276
00:17:12,483 --> 00:17:15,413
But now they also want to compete
for the fruits of your labor

277
00:17:15,473 --> 00:17:16,813
and your building abilities.

278
00:17:17,253 --> 00:17:22,263
So they welcome highly skilled engineers,
highly skilled doctors, philosophers.

279
00:17:22,933 --> 00:17:28,063
Art and culture, um, uh, people to
come and build a new El Salvador.

280
00:17:28,633 --> 00:17:31,863
I, you know, I immigrated
to the United States through

281
00:17:31,863 --> 00:17:33,203
the skill based immigration.

282
00:17:33,223 --> 00:17:36,643
I've always thought skill based
immigration is the coolest thing and

283
00:17:36,643 --> 00:17:38,083
we should really double down on that.

284
00:17:38,113 --> 00:17:39,843
Well, that's what El Salvador is doing.

285
00:17:40,783 --> 00:17:43,803
They have not launched
this program just yet.

286
00:17:44,483 --> 00:17:47,773
Um, I think it's going to be very soon,
probably in the next couple of months.

287
00:17:48,433 --> 00:17:52,503
Uh, and I'm really interested to see
what kind of talent El Salvador is

288
00:17:52,503 --> 00:17:54,183
going to attract with this program.

289
00:17:54,363 --> 00:17:54,473
I

290
00:17:54,683 --> 00:17:59,433
no, this is, this is fantastic and I mean,
El Salvador, El Salvador being of most

291
00:17:59,433 --> 00:18:01,603
interest to, to Bitcoiners here, right?

292
00:18:01,633 --> 00:18:07,623
Uh, uh, I mean, I think that program is,
is going to be, um, uh, really of, of

293
00:18:07,673 --> 00:18:11,603
interest to, to, yeah, those of us in the
Bitcoin community that really want to go

294
00:18:11,603 --> 00:18:16,563
there and, and, and move there and all
this, but one, I guess, um, Maybe not a

295
00:18:16,563 --> 00:18:21,963
misconception or something about this,
but one question I have is that this flag

296
00:18:21,963 --> 00:18:26,973
theory thing, does it necessarily always
mean you have to move to the place, or is

297
00:18:26,973 --> 00:18:34,673
it like you say, this kind of backup or
secondary option in case you can't manage

298
00:18:34,673 --> 00:18:36,483
to make it work in your home country?

299
00:18:37,848 --> 00:18:39,738
basically see two opposites.

300
00:18:39,748 --> 00:18:43,818
So I see family men reaching
out for Plan B passport for

301
00:18:43,818 --> 00:18:45,678
their kids and for their legacy.

302
00:18:46,058 --> 00:18:50,668
And then I see single Bitcoiners
getting the hell out of their home

303
00:18:50,668 --> 00:18:52,638
country and relocating anywhere else.

304
00:18:53,303 --> 00:18:55,993
So I see both cases in my audience.

305
00:18:56,543 --> 00:19:00,693
Um, a lot of people, of
course, are trying to relocate.

306
00:19:00,763 --> 00:19:03,483
Specifically, I would say
everybody's leaving Canada and UK.

307
00:19:03,513 --> 00:19:06,313
Those are the two jurisdictions
that everybody's getting out of.

308
00:19:07,063 --> 00:19:08,753
Coincidentally, that's, that's me.

309
00:19:08,813 --> 00:19:09,263
That's me.

310
00:19:09,263 --> 00:19:12,323
I'm, I'm, uh, I've left Canada
and I live in Finland right now.

311
00:19:12,323 --> 00:19:15,983
That doesn't sound like I've made a,
a, a, a, improvement necessarily, but,

312
00:19:16,023 --> 00:19:20,213
uh, I, Finland is much better than
Canada in many re Anyway, continue.

313
00:19:20,883 --> 00:19:21,913
We can return to that later.

314
00:19:22,363 --> 00:19:25,503
you gave up one cold country
for another cold country.

315
00:19:25,513 --> 00:19:25,543
And

316
00:19:25,983 --> 00:19:30,023
Pretty much, but the, the weather is nicer
in Helsinki where I, where I live than,

317
00:19:30,043 --> 00:19:33,813
uh, than Western Canada where I came from,
but, uh, yeah, yeah, it's not about the

318
00:19:33,923 --> 00:19:37,193
have the biggest Nordic
Bitcoin conference, aren't you?

319
00:19:37,683 --> 00:19:38,543
You got it.

320
00:19:39,443 --> 00:19:42,633
It's sort of the cat came out
of the bag just yesterday.

321
00:19:43,003 --> 00:19:43,553
Welcome.

322
00:19:43,863 --> 00:19:46,753
Please, please come if you can make it.

323
00:19:46,803 --> 00:19:47,923
But yeah, Knut

324
00:19:48,038 --> 00:19:48,848
That's pretty cool.

325
00:19:48,963 --> 00:19:51,383
and I are actually involved
in the organization.

326
00:19:51,771 --> 00:19:55,591
Oh, check out, I'm literally showing
you guys on your own podcast.

327
00:19:56,946 --> 00:20:00,056
Yeah, we haven't talked about it
too much, but yeah, glad to hear

328
00:20:00,056 --> 00:20:02,156
that the word has made it around.

329
00:20:02,226 --> 00:20:08,586
But I'm pretty happy here, and I think
the Canada EU thing is at least, uh,

330
00:20:08,946 --> 00:20:14,386
um, I'm keeping my options open anyway,
but maybe I'll start working on the

331
00:20:14,386 --> 00:20:15,766
third passport, one of these days.

332
00:20:16,415 --> 00:20:21,365
so we haven't started chilling, chilling
the BTC HELL conference on the show yet

333
00:20:21,395 --> 00:20:26,745
because the news just got out a couple of
days ago at the time of recording here.

334
00:20:26,925 --> 00:20:29,515
So we're gonna, we're gonna
talk a lot more about it in

335
00:20:29,515 --> 00:20:31,445
the upcoming months, I'm sure.

336
00:20:31,980 --> 00:20:33,180
But you're very welcome.

337
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:33,570
Yeah.

338
00:22:08,980 --> 00:22:12,280
Regarding the Canadians and
Americans relocating to EU, I've

339
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,170
actually been very busy lately with
citizenship by descent programs as

340
00:22:16,220 --> 00:22:18,320
another path to second password.

341
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,660
So, you know that America is a land
of immigrants, so even if you were

342
00:22:23,660 --> 00:22:28,270
born in America or Canada, probably
your grandparents came from somewhere

343
00:22:28,270 --> 00:22:30,110
in Europe, if not great grandparents.

344
00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:35,270
Well, all the EU countries have
citizenship by descent programs

345
00:22:35,550 --> 00:22:39,860
available, depending on what kind of
generation immigrated out of the country.

346
00:22:40,430 --> 00:22:45,260
So I've been just talking to all
Bitcoiners, realizing that they have

347
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,490
like Polish grandparents and Italian
grandparents, and that qualifies

348
00:22:49,540 --> 00:22:51,680
them for citizenship in the EU.

349
00:22:51,690 --> 00:22:53,310
They don't have to visit the country.

350
00:22:53,310 --> 00:22:54,490
They don't have to relocate.

351
00:22:54,540 --> 00:22:55,110
They can just.

352
00:22:55,540 --> 00:23:00,970
For free, get a second citizenship in
the EU, and it may not be the desirable

353
00:23:01,010 --> 00:23:03,380
relocation destination for most Americans.

354
00:23:03,890 --> 00:23:07,970
But it is a very solid second
citizenship in case of emergency.

355
00:23:07,980 --> 00:23:08,910
Very strong password.

356
00:23:10,260 --> 00:23:14,560
So that's why we launched the Plan
B Passport just a couple months ago.

357
00:23:14,570 --> 00:23:19,640
We helped Bitcoiners to actually do
genealogical search to find what was

358
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,900
the name and date of birth and place
of birth of their ancestor in the EU.

359
00:23:24,150 --> 00:23:28,590
So we have that option if you don't really
know where your ancestors are coming from.

360
00:23:28,820 --> 00:23:31,410
And after that, we are able
to retrieve all of their.

361
00:23:31,860 --> 00:23:36,190
Documents, archives, and then submit
the application on behalf of the

362
00:23:36,190 --> 00:23:40,920
applicant to get a second citizenship
in a matter of eight to 36 months.

363
00:23:41,450 --> 00:23:43,250
So we've been really busy with that.

364
00:23:43,260 --> 00:23:46,460
That's a really cool offering
and an easy sell for us.

365
00:23:47,004 --> 00:23:48,054
that sounds super cool.

366
00:23:48,054 --> 00:23:50,274
And I have to ask the follow-up question.

367
00:23:50,274 --> 00:23:52,614
Are there similar programs in West Africa?

368
00:23:53,463 --> 00:23:55,123
I would have to look into that.

369
00:23:56,095 --> 00:23:58,105
Yeah, I, I guess that would be trickier.

370
00:23:58,525 --> 00:24:01,295
Uh, or maybe not.

371
00:24:01,355 --> 00:24:03,125
Maybe it's easier, uh, even, uh.

372
00:24:03,675 --> 00:24:05,145
I will, I will look into that.

373
00:24:05,145 --> 00:24:06,695
That's not a common, common question.

374
00:24:06,735 --> 00:24:08,035
So I don't know the answer.

375
00:24:08,335 --> 00:24:09,665
So yeah, I'm catering to Bitcoiners.

376
00:24:09,855 --> 00:24:13,865
So if I, if I start hearing that
question, I'll open up the program.

377
00:24:14,530 --> 00:24:19,260
one, uh, country that comes to mind
that I recently visited is Argentina.

378
00:24:19,780 --> 00:24:24,330
Uh, I know that there's, uh,
getting a citizenship in Argentina

379
00:24:24,330 --> 00:24:26,180
is super cheap and pretty easy.

380
00:24:26,570 --> 00:24:28,630
You just have to spend
some time there, basically.

381
00:24:28,810 --> 00:24:33,420
So, like, uh, do you have any,
like, ideas about Argentina now that

382
00:24:33,420 --> 00:24:34,950
Melee is in power and all of that?

383
00:24:35,675 --> 00:24:40,325
Yeah, go to Argentina, have a baby, and
get a citizenship in less than a year.

384
00:24:41,523 --> 00:24:42,343
That's the plan.

385
00:24:43,063 --> 00:24:47,073
I mean, it's a legit program,
so, Argentina grants the rights.

386
00:24:47,768 --> 00:24:50,018
As citizenship by birth to the baby.

387
00:24:50,538 --> 00:24:55,038
So now parents of an Argentinian
born child have a right to obtain

388
00:24:55,038 --> 00:24:57,918
citizenship too, and it takes
like a year or two for them.

389
00:24:58,728 --> 00:25:03,528
So, um, a lot of people starting to do
this things called birth tourism, and

390
00:25:03,528 --> 00:25:07,493
they go to Latin American countries like
Brazil, Argentina, have a baby there.

391
00:25:08,153 --> 00:25:12,473
and become a resident or then
citizenship, citizens of the country.

392
00:25:12,773 --> 00:25:15,633
It's another way to establish a new flag.

393
00:25:16,083 --> 00:25:20,083
And, um, as somebody in my
childbearing years, uh, I've been

394
00:25:20,093 --> 00:25:21,543
definitely thinking about it.

395
00:25:22,786 --> 00:25:29,436
And, uh, I guess then their, their
grandchildren can potentially claim

396
00:25:29,436 --> 00:25:34,726
genealogy things and claim the, the old
passport back that their grandparents had.

397
00:25:35,456 --> 00:25:39,436
Well, the child will, will get the
citizenship of Argentina, will get a

398
00:25:39,436 --> 00:25:41,526
citizenship of basically both parents.

399
00:25:42,016 --> 00:25:44,116
Whatever citizenship they hold.

400
00:25:44,616 --> 00:25:48,936
So, like, some children are born with
three, four citizenships right away,

401
00:25:49,576 --> 00:25:52,036
um, and they never have to stack flags.

402
00:25:52,586 --> 00:25:54,566
We stacked on their behalf, I guess.

403
00:25:55,564 --> 00:26:00,384
here's a question, like, what do you
think, uh, the whole, uh, pandemic

404
00:26:00,384 --> 00:26:06,224
circus, uh, did to, to this whole,
uh, this whole movement, like,

405
00:26:06,264 --> 00:26:08,014
do you think it accelerated this?

406
00:26:08,254 --> 00:26:12,384
Uh, I mean, not only for people,
because it obviously accelerated

407
00:26:12,384 --> 00:26:16,314
it for people, there are more
digital nomads now than before.

408
00:26:16,754 --> 00:26:22,214
Uh, I mean, If I remember correctly,
like, video conferencing wasn't really

409
00:26:22,214 --> 00:26:26,364
a thing before, before COVID, or before
the lockdowns, I should say, because

410
00:26:26,754 --> 00:26:34,734
COVID wasn't big of a deal, the lockdowns
were, uh, but still, uh, do you think

411
00:26:34,804 --> 00:26:40,464
that the nation states themselves have
accelerated these, uh, things, uh, post

412
00:26:40,484 --> 00:26:43,714
COVID just to, to compete more for people?

413
00:26:44,774 --> 00:26:49,034
So, nation states obviously also
trying to meet the demand, right?

414
00:26:49,434 --> 00:26:52,474
Um, one thing you always have
to do is follow the money.

415
00:26:53,174 --> 00:26:58,134
Whenever you talk about literally
anything, so let's say Caribbean

416
00:26:58,134 --> 00:27:02,904
islands, they had two income streams,
tourism and citizenship by investment.

417
00:27:03,264 --> 00:27:04,544
Well, guess what?

418
00:27:04,574 --> 00:27:08,124
During the lockdowns, they couldn't
have any cruise ships coming

419
00:27:08,124 --> 00:27:10,684
in or any airplanes flying in.

420
00:27:10,694 --> 00:27:14,084
There was like complete
lock on any kind of tourism.

421
00:27:14,144 --> 00:27:18,154
So they doubled down on citizenship by
investment programs and they discounted

422
00:27:18,154 --> 00:27:22,654
the programs for like a year, just
dropped 25 percent of the price.

423
00:27:23,154 --> 00:27:26,634
Just so they can attract more
and more citizens, more and

424
00:27:26,634 --> 00:27:28,014
more applicants, let's say.

425
00:27:28,494 --> 00:27:30,064
Um, that was one thing.

426
00:27:31,304 --> 00:27:35,104
And then, of course, with the
digital nomads realizing they can

427
00:27:35,104 --> 00:27:38,674
work from anywhere in the world,
the demand just skyrocketed.

428
00:27:38,714 --> 00:27:45,009
So now The digital nomad visa became
a thing all over the world, like

429
00:27:45,009 --> 00:27:49,309
six years ago, it was an option in a
few jurisdictions, mostly in the EU.

430
00:27:49,769 --> 00:27:55,529
Now it's everywhere across Latin America,
almost everywhere in Southeast Asia.

431
00:27:56,169 --> 00:28:00,239
Also, they have digital nomad visas,
so that definitely accelerated.

432
00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:05,129
And again, digital nomad visa
falls really well into the whole

433
00:28:05,159 --> 00:28:06,059
sovereign individual thesis.

434
00:28:06,734 --> 00:28:10,044
Come and build from here, pay
less taxes than you would in

435
00:28:10,044 --> 00:28:11,904
your home country, but paid here.

436
00:28:12,424 --> 00:28:16,964
Uh, hire local people, uh, build
an office here, you're welcome.

437
00:28:17,574 --> 00:28:19,024
Um, so that's pretty cool.

438
00:28:19,670 --> 00:28:24,270
Uh, yeah, to dive back into one of
Luke's questions, uh, I, uh, I seem

439
00:28:24,950 --> 00:28:28,880
to remember like four years ago that
for the, I think it was the Antigua

440
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:34,510
one, that you only had to spend one
day on, on actual Antigua per year,

441
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,320
but you could still have the passport.

442
00:28:37,260 --> 00:28:40,910
Yeah, so it's, most of my jurisdictions
don't require you to visit the

443
00:28:40,910 --> 00:28:42,680
island or in the country at all.

444
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,480
El Salvador doesn't require it, four
out of five jurisdictions in the

445
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:47,930
Caribbean don't require a visit.

446
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,200
It's an online interview and that's it.

447
00:28:51,220 --> 00:28:54,410
With Antigua, you just have to spend
five days in the next five years,

448
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,280
you know, to renew the passport.

449
00:28:56,900 --> 00:29:02,280
Um, so yeah, those citizenship by
investment programs is a true capitalism

450
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,520
comes to nation state services.

451
00:29:04,890 --> 00:29:08,900
You literally buy a
passport, which is cool.

452
00:29:09,780 --> 00:29:10,730
I want more of it.

453
00:29:11,594 --> 00:29:17,364
That's so cool, because like, there's a
Hans Hermann Hoppe term that, uh, that

454
00:29:17,364 --> 00:29:22,764
I love, that governments don't compete
for goods, they compete for bads.

455
00:29:23,194 --> 00:29:28,304
But in this case, they actually compete
for goods, because the bads drive

456
00:29:28,314 --> 00:29:32,889
the good people out, and now they
need to enter the free market to find

457
00:29:32,899 --> 00:29:35,179
new goods to import to the country.

458
00:29:35,619 --> 00:29:41,259
And, uh, yeah, we put it in our new
book that the, uh, the opposite of

459
00:29:41,309 --> 00:29:44,189
equality is not inequality, it's quality.

460
00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:47,309
So, like, either you have
equality or you have quality.

461
00:29:47,489 --> 00:29:48,929
And I think there's something to that.

462
00:29:48,939 --> 00:29:54,289
You can't, you can't, equality is only
possible if you chop people's legs off.

463
00:29:54,349 --> 00:29:55,999
That's, that's how you get equality.

464
00:29:56,409 --> 00:29:59,169
So, uh, so no, this is a very positive.

465
00:29:59,609 --> 00:30:00,039
thing.

466
00:30:00,129 --> 00:30:04,269
Uh, and it's, uh, yeah, I'm so happy to
hear that this is just expanding and, and

467
00:30:04,629 --> 00:30:10,849
growing in every direction and direction,
uh, you know, widening and deepening.

468
00:30:12,134 --> 00:30:12,584
Yeah.

469
00:30:12,954 --> 00:30:19,994
You know, yesterday I was accused in,
uh, being an equality, equality advocate

470
00:30:20,024 --> 00:30:24,824
on Twitter because I mentioned that,
um, Pluggy Passport's mission is to

471
00:30:24,854 --> 00:30:29,244
employ all the good looking women of
Bitcoin Twitter one day, and people were

472
00:30:29,244 --> 00:30:32,214
like, why are you only hiring women?

473
00:30:32,214 --> 00:30:34,844
Are you just trying to do
the whole equality thing?

474
00:30:34,844 --> 00:30:37,804
I was like, oh my God, this
has nothing to do with me.

475
00:30:38,854 --> 00:30:44,914
Trying to just choose by gender,
but as a, as a female CEO, it's just

476
00:30:45,744 --> 00:30:51,254
much better dynamic for me to have
full female team and also like, I

477
00:30:51,254 --> 00:30:56,244
don't want to boss around a man and
then come back to my home and try to

478
00:30:56,244 --> 00:30:58,194
bring the same energy to my husband.

479
00:30:58,224 --> 00:30:59,654
That's just going to be really wrong.

480
00:31:00,209 --> 00:31:05,399
But, like, try and explain it on
Twitter in 280 digits, like, so

481
00:31:06,599 --> 00:31:10,969
the Vogue Nazis came to me and were
like, hey, you're here trying to

482
00:31:11,139 --> 00:31:13,009
spread the whole equality message.

483
00:31:13,009 --> 00:31:16,969
I'm like, no, I'm just trying to build
a business that works for me, too,

484
00:31:17,659 --> 00:31:20,709
No, but you're only employing
beautiful women, right?

485
00:31:21,409 --> 00:31:22,159
exactly.

486
00:31:22,199 --> 00:31:22,509
So,

487
00:31:22,929 --> 00:31:23,649
So, duh.

488
00:31:23,959 --> 00:31:24,299
Yeah.

489
00:31:24,739 --> 00:31:28,049
fat women are not allowed,
so I'm clearly not equality.

490
00:31:31,539 --> 00:31:32,339
No, it's great.

491
00:31:32,429 --> 00:31:34,169
Um, yeah.

492
00:31:34,189 --> 00:31:35,539
Where, where are we here?

493
00:31:35,559 --> 00:31:37,259
Luke, do you have anything
else on your mind?

494
00:31:37,484 --> 00:31:38,934
That's hilarious.

495
00:31:41,334 --> 00:31:45,154
Maybe bringing this around
on a different direction.

496
00:31:45,164 --> 00:31:49,994
We didn't touch much on your
Bitcoin, the Bitcoin of it all.

497
00:31:51,044 --> 00:31:55,794
Maybe you can tell us a little bit
about what got you into Bitcoin,

498
00:31:55,804 --> 00:31:59,594
what convinced you about it and
the role that Bitcoin plays in

499
00:31:59,624 --> 00:32:00,794
everything you're doing these days.

500
00:32:02,014 --> 00:32:02,834
Absolutely.

501
00:32:02,834 --> 00:32:06,264
So, um, I was born to be a Bitcoiner.

502
00:32:06,414 --> 00:32:09,474
Like, I was born in post Soviet Russia.

503
00:32:10,124 --> 00:32:13,334
Um, I've seen two hyperinflations
throughout my lifetime.

504
00:32:13,384 --> 00:32:15,714
I've seen my parents assets seized.

505
00:32:16,014 --> 00:32:19,754
I've seen my bank accounts just shut
down because I'm somewhere abroad

506
00:32:19,754 --> 00:32:23,474
and forgot to tell my, my bank
about it and some other reasons.

507
00:32:23,924 --> 00:32:26,854
So it was only a matter of
me learning enough about

508
00:32:26,864 --> 00:32:28,784
Bitcoin to become a Bitcoiner.

509
00:32:29,439 --> 00:32:35,459
And then I was, I also had the same
experience with my passport as a member of

510
00:32:35,459 --> 00:32:43,259
a national team, I would get like rejected
an EU visas multiple times a year, and I'm

511
00:32:43,259 --> 00:32:47,749
coming on a direct invitation from like
world championship to come and compete.

512
00:32:47,779 --> 00:32:53,609
What is the reason to reject the 16 year
old girl to come and compete for a week?

513
00:32:53,649 --> 00:32:54,019
Right?

514
00:32:54,079 --> 00:32:56,339
Makes zero sense, but it made me realize.

515
00:32:56,959 --> 00:33:00,079
This piece of paper that I have
with a government stamp on it.

516
00:33:00,694 --> 00:33:06,564
It's gonna dictate what kind of invisible
lines I can or cannot cross in the

517
00:33:06,564 --> 00:33:11,694
world, like, it was just, it makes no
sense if you look at it this way, but,

518
00:33:11,694 --> 00:33:16,514
uh, it made me quite an anarchist when
it comes to the whole world movement

519
00:33:16,524 --> 00:33:20,724
between borders and jurisdictions,
so I wanted to fix it for myself, and

520
00:33:20,724 --> 00:33:22,014
now I want to fix it for others, too.

521
00:33:23,529 --> 00:33:30,769
Um, so I was in the right place at the
right time in Miami to become a Bitcoiner.

522
00:33:30,779 --> 00:33:33,709
Like I obviously heard about it
and you know how you have the three

523
00:33:33,749 --> 00:33:35,679
touch thing until you're fully sold.

524
00:33:36,629 --> 00:33:40,899
So one day I met this girl at a language
school, English language school,

525
00:33:40,999 --> 00:33:45,809
and she's crying, bawling, and I can
right away see that she's from Russia.

526
00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:50,039
So she had some issues, got kicked
out of the host family, has nowhere to

527
00:33:50,039 --> 00:33:52,299
stay, has no car to move her suitcase.

528
00:33:52,969 --> 00:33:54,539
So I just give her a hand.

529
00:33:55,144 --> 00:33:57,644
Drop her off at the
hotel with her suitcases.

530
00:33:57,734 --> 00:34:00,254
Well, she reached out a couple of
months later and was like, Hey, Katie,

531
00:34:00,614 --> 00:34:05,564
there's this Bitcoin mining farm
that comes to New York for a Bitcoin

532
00:34:05,584 --> 00:34:07,504
conference and they need a translator.

533
00:34:08,014 --> 00:34:10,284
Well, let me tell you, at this
point I was learning English

534
00:34:10,284 --> 00:34:12,274
for 10 months from scratch.

535
00:34:12,944 --> 00:34:15,794
And I was like, of course
I will be your translator.

536
00:34:15,794 --> 00:34:16,864
I'll be great at it.

537
00:34:18,024 --> 00:34:20,274
So I show up with New
York in this conference.

538
00:34:20,314 --> 00:34:24,034
It was exactly seven years ago
in a couple, couple of days.

539
00:34:24,034 --> 00:34:24,314
I just.

540
00:34:27,644 --> 00:34:31,404
So I show up at this conference already
super curious about quote unquote

541
00:34:31,454 --> 00:34:33,494
crypto, trying to figure it all out.

542
00:34:34,834 --> 00:34:37,864
Well, this conference was
as shitcoinary as it gets.

543
00:34:37,864 --> 00:34:41,204
Like looking back, I'm like,
how did I get out of it?

544
00:34:41,204 --> 00:34:42,084
It's some magic.

545
00:34:42,564 --> 00:34:47,064
But one guy from the conference, I was
like, dude, how do I figure it all out?

546
00:34:47,074 --> 00:34:48,204
Like, what do I learn?

547
00:34:48,214 --> 00:34:48,844
Where do I go?

548
00:34:48,844 --> 00:34:52,989
And he says, you Go read Mastering
Bitcoin by Antonopoulos, which was at the

549
00:34:52,999 --> 00:34:55,759
time the only Bitcoin book, literally.

550
00:34:56,369 --> 00:35:01,989
Um, so I get the book, I spent nights
and nights not only trying to figure

551
00:35:01,989 --> 00:35:06,159
out the English issue of that because
it was in English and I barely spoke

552
00:35:06,159 --> 00:35:11,309
it, but also it was quite technical,
um, now it's no problem, but back then

553
00:35:11,329 --> 00:35:15,589
with zero knowledge on Bitcoin, like,
Alice, Bob, what's going on, guys?

554
00:35:17,159 --> 00:35:22,109
Um, but yeah, I was at the right time,
the right place, and then I was still

555
00:35:22,109 --> 00:35:26,859
like, re re writing, reading every
white paper there is on every shitcoin

556
00:35:26,879 --> 00:35:29,889
there is, comes out like 10 a day.

557
00:35:30,069 --> 00:35:30,909
It's 2017.

558
00:35:32,359 --> 00:35:38,604
Um, but yeah, I got on Twitter and got
cleaned up, uh, by, by the Bitcoin moxies.

559
00:35:39,382 --> 00:35:41,312
Yeah, and a good, good thing too.

560
00:35:41,312 --> 00:35:45,492
And, uh, I mean, I think there's,
there's one thing with, with a lot

561
00:35:45,492 --> 00:35:50,677
of Bitcoin maxis generally is that,
uh, You know, we're deep in, right?

562
00:35:50,677 --> 00:35:55,687
Like, uh, find Bitcoin and then
there's like this motivation to

563
00:35:55,697 --> 00:35:58,937
do something in the space and
something that aligns with it.

564
00:35:58,937 --> 00:36:04,207
And I mean, the Plan B passport thing
absolutely just instantly feels like this

565
00:36:04,217 --> 00:36:06,307
is a needed service within the community.

566
00:36:06,307 --> 00:36:07,717
But did it start out that way?

567
00:36:08,447 --> 00:36:13,287
Like, did it start out with
Bitcoin as a part of the focus?

568
00:36:13,817 --> 00:36:14,677
Can you tell us about that?

569
00:36:15,827 --> 00:36:21,727
It started with Bitcoin Twitter, so I was
already, like, really crazy flag theory,

570
00:36:21,787 --> 00:36:26,117
enthusiast, advocate, like, I was just
screaming to all the Bitcoiners that

571
00:36:26,147 --> 00:36:31,617
you all need a second passport, you all
need to be moxing on your flags, and,

572
00:36:31,647 --> 00:36:36,167
like, they kept asking me questions, and
I kept being able to answer, because I

573
00:36:36,167 --> 00:36:40,822
was so deep down this rabbit hole, So
then I realized, wait a second, I have

574
00:36:40,822 --> 00:36:44,832
the expertise, I have the audience,
and I have no product to give to them,

575
00:36:45,452 --> 00:36:51,537
so I, at first I was sending them to
other companies, Which I didn't feel

576
00:36:51,537 --> 00:36:55,147
comfortable with because I thought that
the service they were providing did

577
00:36:55,167 --> 00:36:57,697
not answer my quality requirements.

578
00:36:58,247 --> 00:37:03,847
So then I just had to get over my
whatever syndrome that I didn't feel

579
00:37:03,847 --> 00:37:05,437
comfortable providing service myself.

580
00:37:05,937 --> 00:37:08,767
And uh, yeah, just opened
up Plan B Passport.

581
00:37:08,817 --> 00:37:13,117
Took me a while to feel comfortable and
being able to actually offer the service.

582
00:37:13,687 --> 00:37:15,357
Um, but that's how it all started.

583
00:37:15,407 --> 00:37:22,527
And now it's Seven girls, we're all
over the world in different continents,

584
00:37:22,527 --> 00:37:27,917
five different jurisdictions, um, and
we take care of Bitcoiners flag needs.

585
00:38:57,822 --> 00:38:58,482
Yeah, it's awesome.

586
00:38:58,482 --> 00:39:04,582
And, uh, you know, I think, I think
the, uh, Um, the, the, the match,

587
00:39:04,642 --> 00:39:06,392
uh, the, the, what is it called?

588
00:39:06,392 --> 00:39:08,772
Product market fit or
the market product fit.

589
00:39:08,822 --> 00:39:11,552
Um, we were talking to Obi about this.

590
00:39:11,582 --> 00:39:14,892
He was, he was adamant that it
wasn't about, uh, product market fit.

591
00:39:14,892 --> 00:39:17,172
It was about market product
fit, like the reverse.

592
00:39:17,382 --> 00:39:20,769
I think, I think I'm, I'm getting
that here that it's really that

593
00:39:20,769 --> 00:39:24,632
you, you matched it to the, the
needs of, of the Bitcoin community

594
00:39:24,632 --> 00:39:25,872
or, or sort of this unique.

595
00:39:26,707 --> 00:39:31,747
Thing, this, this, uh, um, digital
nomads on steroids, something like

596
00:39:31,747 --> 00:39:33,667
this for, for all of the reasons.

597
00:39:33,937 --> 00:39:40,502
Um, but, but the, the geopolitical, um,
side of it, the geopolitical role of, of

598
00:39:40,567 --> 00:39:44,827
Bitcoin is, is a, a really interesting
intersection here because, uh, I mean,

599
00:39:45,187 --> 00:39:50,227
uh, you, you, you've got experience, uh,
I, I think the exact perfect one, Russia

600
00:39:50,227 --> 00:39:54,247
is the, is the country that is becoming
internationally demonized in the last.

601
00:39:54,572 --> 00:39:58,362
A few years with the, the war in
Ukraine and the entire Western

602
00:39:58,362 --> 00:40:00,162
world is basically blocked.

603
00:40:00,637 --> 00:40:01,637
Russia off.

604
00:40:01,637 --> 00:40:08,227
And so, I mean, this is, this is, I think,
a fear of, of many in the, the Bitcoin

605
00:40:08,227 --> 00:40:13,757
community that Bitcoin is going to get
blocked off in their home country and

606
00:40:14,097 --> 00:40:17,157
then have to have to use this, right?

607
00:40:17,157 --> 00:40:21,727
So what do you see, uh, taking
personal into experience into this

608
00:40:21,727 --> 00:40:25,527
or, or, or not, however you like, but
what do you see the likelihood of,

609
00:40:25,557 --> 00:40:27,467
of people needing to use this stuff

610
00:40:28,221 --> 00:40:35,651
Full node is our nation, of
course, uh, but, I mean, we already

611
00:40:35,711 --> 00:40:39,741
see some jurisdictions being
friendlier than others when Bitcoin.

612
00:40:40,071 --> 00:40:42,751
Again, you don't need to protect
your Bitcoin from anybody else.

613
00:40:42,751 --> 00:40:45,731
You need to protect yourself
from the nation state, right?

614
00:40:45,741 --> 00:40:50,126
Like, For example, Roger Merrick, who
actually played the game of jurisdictional

615
00:40:50,156 --> 00:40:53,406
arbitrage, stepped into the wrong land.

616
00:40:54,001 --> 00:40:57,671
And he's currently in custody and
like, of course, we're not the biggest

617
00:40:57,671 --> 00:41:05,251
fan of the Vcash guy, but like, he
renounced his US citizenship, um, at

618
00:41:05,251 --> 00:41:06,961
least seven years ago, probably eight.

619
00:41:07,751 --> 00:41:11,781
Uh, he, according to the
news is what he's done.

620
00:41:11,821 --> 00:41:15,001
He, when he renounced, you're supposed
to declare all your assets and

621
00:41:15,001 --> 00:41:16,961
pay 40 percent exit tax in the US.

622
00:41:17,701 --> 00:41:23,261
So he under declared some of his Bitcoin,
not a lot, actually, apparently just.

623
00:41:24,301 --> 00:41:25,971
Quite just a few.

624
00:41:26,761 --> 00:41:30,051
Uh, so he under declared it, they
somehow figured it out, they got him

625
00:41:30,071 --> 00:41:33,991
in Spain, and now he's in custody.

626
00:41:34,271 --> 00:41:36,481
He is supposed to be extradited to the U.

627
00:41:36,481 --> 00:41:36,711
S.

628
00:41:36,911 --> 00:41:40,001
I don't know if it's gonna
happen, but it is sad to see.

629
00:41:40,451 --> 00:41:44,781
So, of course he's more of a
political prisoner in a way, they

630
00:41:44,781 --> 00:41:48,471
wanted to make a case out of him
and show Bitcoiners that's not true.

631
00:41:49,181 --> 00:41:54,391
That's what we could do if you don't share
the information about your assets with

632
00:41:54,391 --> 00:41:56,081
us because we want to know everything.

633
00:41:56,681 --> 00:42:01,651
Um, but yeah, you, you should be in
the right places that will protect

634
00:42:01,651 --> 00:42:03,201
you physically and your family.

635
00:42:03,681 --> 00:42:08,311
Um, that's why having this insurance
policy, being able to leave the

636
00:42:08,311 --> 00:42:13,461
country in case the 6102 starts
on Bitcoin, um, things like that.

637
00:42:13,471 --> 00:42:17,691
That's why, that's why the whole, the
whole bug out home and Plan B passport.

638
00:42:18,786 --> 00:42:20,146
Hence the name of the company.

639
00:42:20,146 --> 00:42:22,406
Like, you're not necessarily
trying to relocate.

640
00:42:22,426 --> 00:42:25,576
You're looking for a plan B
in case shit hits the fan.

641
00:42:26,395 --> 00:42:26,735
Yeah.

642
00:42:27,295 --> 00:42:35,300
I mean, this is, this is just a perfect
time for a rant about libertarianism,

643
00:42:35,550 --> 00:42:39,950
like, as much as I dislike Roger,
because Roger is a lying shitcoiner,

644
00:42:40,460 --> 00:42:46,440
and I, uh, he, he tried to promote his
shitcoin as bitcoin, confusing people

645
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:51,705
all over the world, and did a lot of
bad things, but, That's not a crime.

646
00:42:51,775 --> 00:42:54,945
Like, he never forced
anyone to buy Bitcoin Cash.

647
00:42:54,955 --> 00:42:57,225
If you were dumb enough
to do that, that's on you.

648
00:42:57,915 --> 00:43:03,945
So, I truly believe people should be
able to sell shit if they want to.

649
00:43:04,805 --> 00:43:08,155
And the real, this is a
know your enemy situation.

650
00:43:08,365 --> 00:43:14,385
The real enemy here is the people that
put him away for a victimless crime.

651
00:43:14,865 --> 00:43:19,385
which is not declaring your
12 words to some institution

652
00:43:19,385 --> 00:43:20,585
that wants to steal your money.

653
00:43:20,715 --> 00:43:21,525
That's not a crime.

654
00:43:21,785 --> 00:43:26,205
That's, uh, that's your responsibility
to not give them your 12 words.

655
00:43:26,385 --> 00:43:30,785
Like, uh, I mean, I'm so,
you know, hashtag free Roger.

656
00:43:30,805 --> 00:43:33,395
Yes, I'm, I'm totally on that side here.

657
00:43:33,710 --> 00:43:38,180
Uh, and, uh, yeah, uh, even though
I disagree with almost everything

658
00:43:38,190 --> 00:43:42,270
Roger says, because it's like he, for
a guy that has read so much Austrian

659
00:43:42,270 --> 00:43:46,280
economics and libertarian literature,
he got some stuff really backwards.

660
00:43:46,690 --> 00:43:50,600
So, uh, but, but still, free Roger.

661
00:43:51,595 --> 00:43:52,205
Hey, Roger.

662
00:43:52,235 --> 00:43:53,735
For sure, I'm on the same team.

663
00:43:54,104 --> 00:43:56,644
Yeah, and nobody actually
talking about it on Twitter.

664
00:43:56,754 --> 00:44:00,524
Yeah, maybe we should, maybe we should,
like, talk about it more on Twitter.

665
00:44:00,999 --> 00:44:02,829
People don't even know he's in custody.

666
00:44:03,399 --> 00:44:08,959
People do talk, uh, there's a hashtag,
Freeroger, uh, uh, hashtag, so people

667
00:44:08,959 --> 00:44:12,839
are talking about it, I saw a post about
it today, but yeah, maybe it's not that

668
00:44:12,859 --> 00:44:19,129
big, because people don't like Roger,
but it is, it is, uh, uh, it's a scary

669
00:44:19,149 --> 00:44:23,709
thing, and just that he could be, it's,
it's very similar to the Julian Assange

670
00:44:23,729 --> 00:44:27,479
thing, actually, I think, like, getting
it's Getting caught in another country

671
00:44:27,489 --> 00:44:30,609
for, for basically information crime.

672
00:44:31,589 --> 00:44:34,419
And that's something that when
you build your flag theory

673
00:44:34,419 --> 00:44:35,839
strategy, you should consider.

674
00:44:35,839 --> 00:44:38,669
What are the extradition laws
at certain jurisdictions?

675
00:44:39,889 --> 00:44:41,729
What is the extradition laws in Turkey?

676
00:44:41,799 --> 00:44:46,434
And that's why Turkey has been interesting
because Turkey is not an EU, Turkey is

677
00:44:46,434 --> 00:44:51,878
not in bed with Western world, Turkey
has this, like, layer of cultural,

678
00:44:52,138 --> 00:44:56,988
religious protection from the West right
now, so that's why a lot of Bitcoiners

679
00:44:56,988 --> 00:45:01,478
are like, yeah, Turkey is not a strong
password, but it is On the other side

680
00:45:01,478 --> 00:45:05,828
of geopolitical spectrum, so it is
a good hedge, and that's something

681
00:45:05,828 --> 00:45:09,688
you definitely should consider when
building your flag theory toolkit.

682
00:45:10,215 --> 00:45:12,125
Yeah, tell us more about Turkey then.

683
00:45:12,125 --> 00:45:13,605
What's the, what's the deal there?

684
00:45:14,850 --> 00:45:21,170
You buy citizen, um, sorry, you buy
real estate 400, 000 plus, on this

685
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,710
basis you obtain citizenship, you
have to hold real estate for 3 years,

686
00:45:24,910 --> 00:45:26,210
after that do whatever you want.

687
00:45:26,930 --> 00:45:28,870
You can actually buy
real estate with Bitcoin.

688
00:45:29,852 --> 00:45:34,792
Sounds appealing, and I mean, uh, you
know, the, the, I've seen tweets of

689
00:45:34,792 --> 00:45:39,092
yours talking about the Bitcoin price
strengthening and the price per Bitcoin

690
00:45:39,102 --> 00:45:43,832
for some of these passports and, uh, you
know, with number go up, the price is

691
00:45:43,832 --> 00:45:49,022
only going to go lower and lower, and I
like also when you, uh, break down how

692
00:45:49,022 --> 00:45:53,337
much it is to bring your whole family,
because obviously that's, uh, Uh, that's

693
00:45:53,337 --> 00:45:55,837
important for, for Bitcoiners as well.

694
00:45:55,837 --> 00:46:00,507
And, uh, um, you, and you've also
been quite public that you've been,

695
00:46:00,517 --> 00:46:04,557
been building a family and growing
a family in, in this whole time.

696
00:46:04,567 --> 00:46:10,537
Has, has that changed your outlook
in, uh, um, your, your flag flare?

697
00:46:10,597 --> 00:46:11,597
Yeah, everything.

698
00:46:12,017 --> 00:46:12,860
Please tell us about

699
00:46:13,047 --> 00:46:15,557
definitely changed my
outlook on everything.

700
00:46:15,907 --> 00:46:20,937
Um, yeah, I have two boys so far, eight
months old and two and a half years old.

701
00:46:21,477 --> 00:46:27,397
Um, of course it changed my perspective
on everything, but now more than

702
00:46:27,397 --> 00:46:34,377
ever, I realize, The strategy of
building my flag theory must include

703
00:46:34,407 --> 00:46:36,777
my ability to relocate with children.

704
00:46:37,227 --> 00:46:43,357
So picking the jurisdiction has become a
strategy around my lifestyle for my kids.

705
00:46:44,157 --> 00:46:48,527
Um, but now also like some
programs are more family friendly.

706
00:46:48,817 --> 00:46:53,617
Some programs, I can't include my spouse,
or he can't include me, and things

707
00:46:53,617 --> 00:46:58,377
like that, so, um, I, this is what we
do for our clients, right, they come

708
00:46:58,377 --> 00:47:02,847
with their goals and needs, and I break
them down with like, okay, what, what

709
00:47:02,847 --> 00:47:07,297
kind of lifestyle do you desire, what's
the budget, how many family members

710
00:47:07,337 --> 00:47:09,957
do you want to include, do you want
to include your parents, your spouse's

711
00:47:10,007 --> 00:47:12,637
parents, You have seven kids together.

712
00:47:12,637 --> 00:47:14,517
Okay, how do we include all them?

713
00:47:14,757 --> 00:47:17,057
What's going to change the
price and things like that?

714
00:47:17,707 --> 00:47:20,077
But yeah, all these
come into consideration.

715
00:47:20,097 --> 00:47:24,317
That's why I constantly say, like,
flat theory is a security model.

716
00:47:24,347 --> 00:47:27,827
When you build your security model
for Bitcoin, you consider your

717
00:47:28,067 --> 00:47:29,797
potential attack vectors, right?

718
00:47:30,137 --> 00:47:34,377
So you're like, I travel a lot, so
I need to have access to my coin.

719
00:47:34,717 --> 00:47:39,347
In any jurisdiction, so I can't like
put my seed phrase on the ground

720
00:47:39,367 --> 00:47:42,097
on a steel plate on my backyard.

721
00:47:42,127 --> 00:47:42,877
That's not going to work.

722
00:47:42,917 --> 00:47:47,327
So you build up your security system
based on your goals and needs.

723
00:47:48,022 --> 00:47:49,042
Same goes for Flak View.

724
00:47:49,062 --> 00:47:55,212
You have to customize it based on all
the, all the facts that are at play.

725
00:47:56,157 --> 00:47:57,477
Yeah, understandable.

726
00:47:57,477 --> 00:48:01,187
And well, yeah, my, my, uh, my son,
my first, my first kid is 10 months.

727
00:48:01,207 --> 00:48:03,997
So it's, I get the, the entire thing.

728
00:48:04,037 --> 00:48:08,047
It's, uh, having young kids
is, having kids, kids, period.

729
00:48:08,057 --> 00:48:08,287
Yeah.

730
00:48:08,287 --> 00:48:09,507
Changes your perspective.

731
00:48:09,557 --> 00:48:10,887
Uh, sure.

732
00:48:11,297 --> 00:48:12,857
Um, yeah, yeah.

733
00:48:12,857 --> 00:48:17,227
Uh, I, I, I wonder in all this,
what do you think of kind of your

734
00:48:17,257 --> 00:48:19,187
outlook over the next few years?

735
00:48:19,187 --> 00:48:20,977
Are you optimistic about it?

736
00:48:21,322 --> 00:48:24,572
The world and the future,
the way things are going.

737
00:48:25,583 --> 00:48:32,513
So I, I really like the fact that I
have all the plan Bs in place because

738
00:48:32,523 --> 00:48:36,133
that makes my front yard greener.

739
00:48:36,393 --> 00:48:39,813
You know how they say that the grass
is always greener on the other side?

740
00:48:40,283 --> 00:48:44,913
Well, the grass is greener where you
fertilize it, not with chemicals,

741
00:48:45,313 --> 00:48:47,473
but, but you know what I mean, right?

742
00:48:47,483 --> 00:48:47,823
It's like.

743
00:48:48,373 --> 00:48:50,043
What you feed will grow.

744
00:48:50,313 --> 00:48:55,763
And I was, I'm currently in Texas, which
was chosen strategically for all the

745
00:48:55,763 --> 00:48:57,863
family needs that we have at the time.

746
00:48:58,323 --> 00:49:00,983
And it's been serving me quite well.

747
00:49:01,323 --> 00:49:05,213
We build out a perfect bubble
of Bitcoin friends here.

748
00:49:05,623 --> 00:49:10,378
We, uh, Shoot the hand of local farmers,
so we have access to everything we

749
00:49:10,418 --> 00:49:16,358
currently need, and we build this
perfect green, gross place for ourselves.

750
00:49:17,348 --> 00:49:20,298
Now, of course, I have Plan
B and C and D in place, which

751
00:49:20,298 --> 00:49:23,288
makes me sleep well at night.

752
00:49:23,378 --> 00:49:30,658
So I am in an absolute hopium mindset,
like I'm a, I see future as beautiful

753
00:49:30,658 --> 00:49:32,798
and positive for me and my family.

754
00:49:33,108 --> 00:49:34,738
I think many of us Bitcoiners.

755
00:49:35,183 --> 00:49:39,613
I just have this thing now that like,
look, we figured out the money system.

756
00:49:39,643 --> 00:49:41,013
Now everything is great.

757
00:49:41,323 --> 00:49:42,983
We're no longer in the red grace.

758
00:49:42,983 --> 00:49:45,213
We're not longer doing jobs we hate.

759
00:49:45,913 --> 00:49:49,263
We no longer have to have
dinners with people we dislike.

760
00:49:50,243 --> 00:49:55,543
We actually have this beautiful tribe and
community and yeah, everything, everything

761
00:49:55,543 --> 00:49:57,033
is beautiful in my life right now.

762
00:49:58,608 --> 00:49:59,198
It's great to hear.

763
00:49:59,198 --> 00:50:04,358
And, uh, and, uh, I guess, I guess my
question is a little more like a big

764
00:50:04,378 --> 00:50:08,428
picture, uh, like geopolitically, even,
do you, do you think Bitcoin is going

765
00:50:08,428 --> 00:50:11,258
to, going to help for peace in the world?

766
00:50:11,258 --> 00:50:15,888
Because that, again, I think what you
talked about the, the, the plan B of it

767
00:50:15,888 --> 00:50:20,358
all is, is if everything goes to shit
kind of thing, and you've seen examples

768
00:50:20,358 --> 00:50:24,428
of this in the last few years, but, um,
do you think it's going to get better?

769
00:50:25,598 --> 00:50:28,788
Yeah, well I don't have to tell
you guys about the whole let's

770
00:50:28,798 --> 00:50:32,228
separate state and money and it's
gonna make everything better.

771
00:50:32,328 --> 00:50:37,148
You've heard that too many times,
you know it by heart, you feel it.

772
00:50:37,718 --> 00:50:42,158
So, of course, I want more and more
people to see this beautiful exit.

773
00:50:42,558 --> 00:50:48,058
Um, I don't want us to go and do
violent revolution to make it,

774
00:50:48,098 --> 00:50:52,033
like, Anarchy is not enforceable.

775
00:50:52,083 --> 00:50:53,713
That's the whole point of anarchy.

776
00:50:53,793 --> 00:51:00,313
Anarchy is a voluntarily opt in system,
and you know, the way I see it is

777
00:51:00,313 --> 00:51:03,393
basically like a network full of nodes.

778
00:51:03,953 --> 00:51:06,613
First, you become a full, reliable node.

779
00:51:06,683 --> 00:51:08,303
Like, I'm an anarchy node.

780
00:51:08,873 --> 00:51:15,403
I don't exercise violence against people
unless they exercise violence towards me.

781
00:51:15,703 --> 00:51:16,733
I don't lie.

782
00:51:17,003 --> 00:51:20,603
I don't Mis, mislead people
and all those things, right?

783
00:51:20,603 --> 00:51:22,463
Like I'm a true anarchy node.

784
00:51:22,523 --> 00:51:27,113
Well, now I go ahead and I find
people who run the same code, right?

785
00:51:27,123 --> 00:51:31,423
So I started connecting with other anarchy
nodes and that's the only way the network

786
00:51:31,423 --> 00:51:33,323
spreads out just like Bitcoin network.

787
00:51:33,893 --> 00:51:34,713
So you can't.

788
00:51:35,398 --> 00:51:39,318
You can't force other people to run
your node, to run the same energy node.

789
00:51:39,708 --> 00:51:43,818
That's why Bitcoiners seem to really
enjoy coming to conferences together,

790
00:51:43,818 --> 00:51:46,288
because that's how you expand the network.

791
00:51:46,538 --> 00:51:50,563
And that's why you see Bitcoiners
really choosing places and just Moving

792
00:51:50,563 --> 00:51:55,093
in all together and just starting
a local community because we, we

793
00:51:55,093 --> 00:51:57,073
found our nodes, we found the tribe.

794
00:51:57,743 --> 00:52:03,243
So I, I feel like there were a lot of
catalysts lately that helped people

795
00:52:03,283 --> 00:52:06,073
see that the previous system sucks.

796
00:52:06,613 --> 00:52:07,903
COVID was one of them.

797
00:52:07,923 --> 00:52:12,073
There were a lot of good things
that came out of COVID somehow.

798
00:52:12,954 --> 00:52:18,909
and now, Now you just really must
see through this, like, in America

799
00:52:18,959 --> 00:52:24,469
specifically, through this red and blue
glasses and realize that this is such

800
00:52:24,469 --> 00:52:30,959
a showbiz and 51 percent attack always
happens, but in reality, you choosing

801
00:52:30,959 --> 00:52:37,439
between two evil and, like, who is your
neighbor affects your life way more

802
00:52:37,439 --> 00:52:39,399
than who is in the fucking White House.

803
00:52:40,109 --> 00:52:44,259
So once you realize that, you're like,
wait, I can just build the life I

804
00:52:44,259 --> 00:52:46,309
love, and that's kind of beautiful.

805
00:52:46,689 --> 00:52:51,989
So the more people wake up to that
and see through, see through bullshit,

806
00:52:52,009 --> 00:52:54,599
the better the outcome is going to be.

807
00:52:55,794 --> 00:52:59,144
Oh, this is a, that was
a fantastic rant, Katie.

808
00:52:59,374 --> 00:53:03,374
I mean, nail on the head, uh,
and I'm gonna identify as an

809
00:53:03,384 --> 00:53:04,694
anarchy node in the future.

810
00:53:04,904 --> 00:53:08,494
Like, so whenever a website asks me for
my pronouns, it's anarchy slash node.

811
00:53:08,974 --> 00:53:11,434
Uh, like that's, uh, no, this is so good.

812
00:53:11,809 --> 00:53:16,299
And, uh, speaking of anarchy and
libertarianism, and so, because you

813
00:53:16,539 --> 00:53:19,329
hit the nail on the head, it's not
enforceable, we have to do it ourselves,

814
00:53:19,329 --> 00:53:23,529
we have to just connect with one another
and live our lives as we want to and

815
00:53:23,539 --> 00:53:29,069
do our best to not have to follow the
rules that others try to impose upon us.

816
00:53:29,109 --> 00:53:30,249
That's, that's it.

817
00:53:30,349 --> 00:53:31,639
Like, it's so simple.

818
00:53:31,849 --> 00:53:36,609
And I think the beauty of Bitcoin is that
this whole don't trust, verify mentality.

819
00:53:36,994 --> 00:53:40,744
Actually, now 10 years down the
line and moving into the future

820
00:53:41,064 --> 00:53:46,685
creates this web of trust between us
Bitcoiners, because, I think honesty

821
00:53:46,685 --> 00:53:48,555
is the currency of the future.

822
00:53:48,615 --> 00:53:53,595
Bitcoin is honesty, and honesty on every
level is the currency of the future.

823
00:53:53,635 --> 00:53:56,100
The only thing you have, except
your stack, is your trust.

824
00:53:56,370 --> 00:53:59,280
Uh, that is actually valuable
as your reputational capital.

825
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:00,080
It's everything.

826
00:54:00,510 --> 00:54:04,100
And it becomes more and more important
the further into the future we get.

827
00:54:04,130 --> 00:54:06,650
And that is what an anarchy node lives on.

828
00:54:06,660 --> 00:54:08,420
That's the anarchy node fuel.

829
00:54:08,490 --> 00:54:12,910
It's honesty, like your reputation,
that you don't fuck people over.

830
00:54:13,420 --> 00:54:16,320
Otherwise, you're, you get shunned
out of the community and you have

831
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,800
nothing, you have nothing left.

832
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:20,020
And by the way,

833
00:54:20,180 --> 00:54:24,800
then you've got to identify, you've
got to identify the, the B cash, energy

834
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:29,540
cash node and make sure you cut them out
and split from the network, whenever,

835
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,110
whenever they run malicious node.

836
00:54:32,685 --> 00:54:33,445
Yeah, exactly.

837
00:54:33,755 --> 00:54:38,575
Uh, by the way, speaking of
libertarianism, uh, I, I think we

838
00:54:38,575 --> 00:54:42,925
bumped into one another around two
years ago in Prague at the Liberty

839
00:54:42,935 --> 00:54:47,225
in Our Lifetime conference, uh, the
Free Cities, uh, movement thing.

840
00:54:47,695 --> 00:54:50,555
Uh, do you have any,
uh, touch points there?

841
00:54:50,795 --> 00:54:53,155
Are you still involved with that somehow?

842
00:54:53,835 --> 00:54:57,525
Uh, well, I've been constantly
pregnant and have a baby, so I

843
00:54:57,525 --> 00:54:59,405
can't travel much for conferences.

844
00:55:00,355 --> 00:55:01,035
Um,

845
00:55:01,245 --> 00:55:05,535
I meant more on a, um,
like, online level, maybe.

846
00:55:06,438 --> 00:55:09,158
no, I haven't, I have not been
really in touch with them.

847
00:55:09,188 --> 00:55:11,888
Like, with some individuals, of
course, but not professionally.

848
00:55:11,888 --> 00:55:14,858
I haven't been keeping my
eye on what's going on there.

849
00:55:15,348 --> 00:55:20,098
Um, yeah, I know Narkapulku is also
still running and they had some

850
00:55:20,098 --> 00:55:27,058
conferences and In Europe, yeah, I
don't know what's going on there.

851
00:55:28,618 --> 00:55:36,568
Yeah, anyway, uh, we, uh, yeah, I missed
that conference this year, too, so I

852
00:55:36,568 --> 00:55:41,278
was sort of just curious if you had
any, news or anything on that front,

853
00:55:41,279 --> 00:55:45,678
but that's a great movement, too, if you
don't know about it, check out the Free

854
00:55:45,678 --> 00:55:51,123
Cities thing, they're trying to build
Actual anarchistic communities within

855
00:55:51,233 --> 00:55:53,093
national borders is very interesting.

856
00:55:53,103 --> 00:55:57,053
And there's a, there's a whole bunch of
interesting projects around the world.

857
00:55:57,653 --> 00:56:03,783
Uh, I can proudly say that we
mentioned Plan B, uh, Plan B passports.

858
00:56:03,813 --> 00:56:06,153
I don't think we mentioned
you by name, but we mentioned

859
00:56:06,203 --> 00:56:07,973
the service in our new book.

860
00:56:08,658 --> 00:56:13,748
The inverse of Clown World, so there's
a whole section in one chapter about

861
00:56:13,818 --> 00:56:20,038
flag theory and like stuff you can
do to emancipate yourselves from your

862
00:56:20,098 --> 00:56:24,688
statism shackles and all sorts of stuff.

863
00:56:25,158 --> 00:56:27,848
And it's been great
having you on the show.

864
00:56:28,218 --> 00:56:31,628
Is there anything you'd like to
add before we wrap this thing up?

865
00:56:31,988 --> 00:56:34,128
Any points we haven't touched?

866
00:56:34,532 --> 00:56:37,842
Well, reach out to me, let's
see if you have ancestors from

867
00:56:37,842 --> 00:56:39,822
Europe to start your journey.

868
00:56:42,107 --> 00:56:46,547
Become a true Anarchy Node
and connect with all of us.

869
00:56:47,657 --> 00:56:48,687
That's the message.

870
00:56:48,767 --> 00:56:51,177
I am at PlanBPassport on Twitter.

871
00:56:51,287 --> 00:56:52,117
PlanBPassport.

872
00:56:52,127 --> 00:56:56,177
com is our website where you can
submit your application to request any

873
00:56:56,177 --> 00:56:58,187
information about any flag in the world.

874
00:56:58,867 --> 00:57:01,167
Um, that's probably the best I can do.

875
00:57:01,883 --> 00:57:05,003
Yeah, and if you're a woman, I
mean a beautiful woman, you can

876
00:57:05,003 --> 00:57:06,473
also apply for a job, I guess.

877
00:57:07,467 --> 00:57:08,327
That's right.

878
00:57:09,168 --> 00:57:09,638
Perfect.

879
00:57:09,638 --> 00:57:13,388
Uh, discriminatory hiring practices,
uh, fully, fully approved.

880
00:57:13,458 --> 00:57:13,848
Yes.

881
00:57:14,383 --> 00:57:15,393
Yes, absolutely.

882
00:57:16,203 --> 00:57:18,373
So, uh, yes, free speech,

883
00:57:19,058 --> 00:57:21,358
Katie, this is, this
has been, uh, excellent.

884
00:57:21,388 --> 00:57:22,778
Uh, great to have you here.

885
00:57:22,778 --> 00:57:25,558
And, uh, yeah, uh, keep
doing what you're doing.

886
00:57:25,558 --> 00:57:27,068
This is a fantastic service.

887
00:57:27,098 --> 00:57:31,128
Uh, uh, I'll need number to go up a
little bit further before I can take

888
00:57:31,128 --> 00:57:34,898
advantage of it one day, but, uh, we'll,
we'll see if that's in my, my future.

889
00:57:36,063 --> 00:57:37,443
Yeah, thank you again.

890
00:57:37,473 --> 00:57:40,303
And, uh, anywhere else you'd
like to direct people to?

891
00:57:40,303 --> 00:57:44,063
I can't, I don't know if you'd, yeah,
anything else to direct people to?

892
00:57:44,713 --> 00:57:47,653
Now I'll, uh, I'll send you guys the link.

893
00:57:47,653 --> 00:57:49,503
You can include them,
whatever you feel like.

894
00:57:49,973 --> 00:57:51,323
Um, yeah, thank you.

895
00:57:51,613 --> 00:57:52,573
Honored to be here.

896
00:57:52,583 --> 00:57:53,233
I had fun.

897
00:57:53,953 --> 00:57:54,653
Likewise.

898
00:57:55,333 --> 00:57:55,963
likewise.

899
00:57:56,363 --> 00:57:58,673
And you're a great ranter,
you should do it more.

900
00:57:59,477 --> 00:58:00,167
Thanks again.

901
00:58:00,557 --> 00:58:00,807
you.

902
00:58:00,857 --> 00:58:01,607
Thank you guys.

903
00:58:01,937 --> 00:58:03,907
This has been the Bitcoin Infinity Show.

904
00:58:04,307 --> 00:58:06,027
Thank you for listening,
and thank you again, Katie.