Oct. 10, 2023

Jimmy Song on Fiat Money and God - Freedom Footprint Show 57

Jimmy Song on Fiat Money and God - Freedom Footprint Show 57

In this episode we are joined by Jimmy Song: developer, educator, and author of 4 Bitcoin books including his newest title “Fiat Ruins Everything”.
Jimmy walks us through his reflections on the bitcoin adoption he has witnessed in his travels and the...

The player is loading ...
The Bitcoin Infinity Show

In this episode we are joined by Jimmy Song: developer, educator, and author of 4 Bitcoin books including his newest title “Fiat Ruins Everything”.

Jimmy walks us through his reflections on the bitcoin adoption he has witnessed in his travels and the growth of bitcoin communities around the world. We learn more about his book “Fiat Ruins Everything”. We question the nature of AI, agency, and propaganda. 

And then we dive deep into religion, with a debate on atheism, morality, Christianity, and the effects of fiat money on these views.

Connect with Jimmy on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jimmysong
Check out Fiat Ruins Everything: https://fiatruinseverything.com/

Chapters: 
00:00:00 - Intro
00:02:00 - Welcoming Jimmy Song
00:05:04 - Bitcoin Adoption Around the World
00:10:09 - Fiat Ruins Everything
00:13:26 - Jimmy's Writing Process
00:20:08 - AI In Writing
00:25:13 - The Nature of AI
00:32:03 - Fiat Money and NPCs
00:37:09 - Fiat Makes Everything Political
00:48:56 - Virtue Signaling and Money Printing
00:55:32 - Fiat is Atheist Money (According to Jimmy)
01:06:29 - Value in Finiteness
01:14:53 - Value of Individuals
01:21:58 - Meaning vs Traditional Morality
01:27:01 - Belief in God vs Organized Religion
01:29:00 - Appeals to Authority
01:37:01 - 7 Tenets

The Freedom Footprint Show is hosted by Knut Svanholm and BTCPseudoFinn. We are concerned about your Freedom Footprint! Join us as we talk to #bitcoin philosophers about how #bitcoin can expand your Freedom Footprint and much more!

The show is sponsored by AmberApp, the #1 Sat Stacking and Spending app on Earth! Their global launch is just around the corner, and they have loads of great features coming up, so stay tuned for those! The reason we've partnered with AmberApp is because of the great people - check out our episode with their CEO, Izzy, and you'll see why! https://youtu.be/nCSMzdp4_Co
Also check out their website to see all the great things at AmberApp: https://amber.app/

The show is sponsored by Wasabi Wallet, the privacy-focused desktop wallet with Tor and coinjoin built in. The coins you send to the wallet are coinjoined through Tor, so when you take the coins out they are private. Visit https://wasabiwallet.io/ and download Wasabi Wallet!

The show is sponsored by Orange Pill App, the social network for bitcoiners aiming to increase hyperbitcoinization in your local area. Download the Orange Pill App today! See https://www.theorangepillapp.com/ for details and connect with them on Twitter https://twitter.com/orangepillapp

The show is sponsored by The Bitcoin Way, specialists in cutting through the technical jargon of Bitcoin, so you can confidently navigate this complex world. They cover everything from Cold Wallets to Nodes, No-KYC Bitcoin Purchases, Inheritance Planning, BTC Payments, and more. If you're looking to expand your freedom footprint, securely managing your Bitcoin in self-custody—the right way, then booking a free 30-minute call with them is the next step to take: https://thebitcoinway.com/contact/

The show is sponsored by Geyser, the portal to the new creator economy on Bitcoin. On Geyser, creators can monetize their creations through their communities in a social and engaging way, and supporters can send sats to their favorite projects. Geyser has also recently integrated with Zaps and Podcasting 2.0, so every Zap sent to a Geyser address shows up on the Geyser page. We have a Geyser fund ourselves, it's the best way to support our show directly with Bitcoin. Check out their website for more info: https://geyser.fund/

Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/FootprintShow
https://twitter.com/knutsvanholm
https://twitter.com/BtcPseudoFinn

The Freedom Footprint Show is a Bitcoin podcast hosted by Knut Svanholm and Luke de Wolf.

In each episode, we explore everything from deep philosophy to practical tools to emit freedom dioxide to expand your freedom footprint!

Transcript
1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,393 I want Bitcoiners mostly to read this book. 2 00:00:02,714 --> 00:00:04,824 like if non Bitcoiners read it, that's fine. 3 00:00:04,867 --> 00:00:09,322 but Mostly, I want Bitcoiners to read it because I want them to really understand 4 00:00:09,322 --> 00:00:13,310 the depths of the fiat depravity that we're experiencing in this world. 5 00:00:13,555 --> 00:00:17,286 I will say one thing, Knut, I think fiat money is an atheist money. 6 00:00:17,633 --> 00:00:21,053 That whole debate, are we really going down that part of the rabbit hole? 7 00:00:21,570 --> 00:00:24,175 Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint show, the Bitcoin 8 00:00:24,175 --> 00:00:28,035 philosophy show with Knut Svanholm and me, Luke the Pseudo Finn. 9 00:00:28,432 --> 00:00:33,202 Today, we're joined by Jimmy Song, developer, educator, and author of 10 00:00:33,212 --> 00:00:37,122 four Bitcoin books, including his newest title, Fiat Ruins Everything. 11 00:00:37,605 --> 00:00:40,915 In this episode, Jimmy walks us through his reflections on the Bitcoin 12 00:00:40,915 --> 00:00:42,625 adoption he's witnessed in his travels. 13 00:00:42,995 --> 00:00:46,305 We talk about his book, Fiat Ruins Everything, and we question the 14 00:00:46,305 --> 00:00:49,465 nature of AI, agency, and propaganda. 15 00:00:49,985 --> 00:00:55,990 But then We dive deep into religion with a debate on atheism, morality, 16 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,527 Christianity, and the effects of fiat money on these views. 17 00:01:00,075 --> 00:01:02,175 We hope you'll find this episode thought provoking. 18 00:01:02,755 --> 00:01:06,335 But before we jump in, a quick reminder that the best way to support the show 19 00:01:06,775 --> 00:01:10,115 is to send us a boost or stream us some sats using a value for value 20 00:01:10,115 --> 00:01:11,925 podcasting app such as Fountain. 21 00:01:12,336 --> 00:01:15,056 If you're listening to the show as a podcast, check it out on Fountain. 22 00:01:15,336 --> 00:01:17,666 You can earn sats from listening and you can support us and 23 00:01:17,716 --> 00:01:18,926 all your other favorite shows. 24 00:01:19,891 --> 00:01:23,191 You can also support us on geyser fund or send sats directly to our lightning 25 00:01:23,201 --> 00:01:25,731 address freedom at geyser dot fund. 26 00:01:26,551 --> 00:01:29,841 And if you want to exchange your dirty fiat, you can support us on Patreon. 27 00:01:30,361 --> 00:01:31,871 All our links are in the description. 28 00:01:32,951 --> 00:01:35,051 If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like the episode 29 00:01:35,051 --> 00:01:36,231 and subscribe to the channel. 30 00:01:36,451 --> 00:01:38,791 Even if you're listening as a podcast, head over to our YouTube 31 00:01:38,791 --> 00:01:40,241 channel and subscribe to us there. 32 00:01:40,251 --> 00:01:41,521 It would be a big help. 33 00:01:42,511 --> 00:01:44,541 And finally, we want to thank today's sponsors. 34 00:01:45,041 --> 00:01:46,771 Amber app, Wasabi wallet. 35 00:01:47,086 --> 00:01:49,976 orange pill app, the bitcoin way, and geyser. 36 00:01:50,506 --> 00:01:52,256 All their information is in the description. 37 00:01:52,306 --> 00:01:53,966 We'll be talking a bit more about them later. 38 00:01:54,467 --> 00:02:00,217 And now without further ado, here is Jimmy Song on the Freedom Footprint show. 39 00:02:00,819 --> 00:02:02,579 Jimmy, welcome to the Freedom Footprint show. 40 00:02:02,609 --> 00:02:03,379 Thanks for joining us. 41 00:02:04,229 --> 00:02:05,389 Well, thanks for having me. 42 00:02:05,389 --> 00:02:06,919 I'm glad to be on the show. 43 00:02:07,825 --> 00:02:09,045 lovely to have you here, Jimmy. 44 00:02:09,045 --> 00:02:10,145 It's been a while. 45 00:02:10,145 --> 00:02:12,645 Uh, we saw you in Riga last, I believe. 46 00:02:12,725 --> 00:02:16,585 Uh, and from what I know, after that, you've been sort of traveling the 47 00:02:16,585 --> 00:02:21,735 world with your family, your great big family, and uh, seeing how fiat 48 00:02:21,735 --> 00:02:23,395 ruins everything everywhere, right? 49 00:02:23,867 --> 00:02:28,967 pretty much, yeah, uh, and uh, yeah, I guess it's, it's been over a year 50 00:02:28,967 --> 00:02:33,707 since I've seen you, but yeah, that, um, last year's Baltic Honey Badger 51 00:02:33,707 --> 00:02:36,567 was, uh, was when we started the trip. 52 00:02:36,967 --> 00:02:42,004 Uh, we finished the trip in June and, uh, and another Baltic Honey Badger 53 00:02:42,014 --> 00:02:46,264 has happened since then, so yeah, it's, it's kind of crazy how time flies. 54 00:02:46,795 --> 00:02:47,055 Yeah. 55 00:02:47,055 --> 00:02:49,105 So what, what countries have you visited? 56 00:02:49,465 --> 00:02:51,485 Is there a list, like, is that list too long? 57 00:02:51,485 --> 00:02:52,530 Is there 58 00:02:52,709 --> 00:02:58,099 There's, uh, we, we visited 200, I mean, we were traveling for 277 days 59 00:02:58,099 --> 00:03:03,089 and we visited 34 countries, so I can name them all for you, it's, it's not 60 00:03:03,179 --> 00:03:10,099 too bad, it's, uh, Latvia, Austria, uh, Italy, Vatican, Switzerland. 61 00:03:11,609 --> 00:03:21,989 Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Peru, Colombia, Spain, Morocco, Palestine, 62 00:03:22,009 --> 00:03:30,874 Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Turkey, Georgia, Armenia, UAE, India, 63 00:03:31,444 --> 00:03:42,044 um, Singapore, Cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, Taiwan, 64 00:03:42,824 --> 00:03:46,944 um, Korea, Japan, Fiji, New Zealand. 65 00:03:47,269 --> 00:03:49,309 Yeah, so I, I think I named all of them. 66 00:03:49,957 --> 00:03:58,327 Wow, what a list, and like, the obvious question is, to which the answer 67 00:03:58,327 --> 00:04:02,907 is probably the title of your book, but what is your main takeaway from 68 00:04:02,907 --> 00:04:04,697 like, visiting all these countries? 69 00:04:04,697 --> 00:04:06,777 What have, what is the conclusion? 70 00:04:07,482 --> 00:04:10,712 Well, I mean, the, the main reason for the trip is because I like 71 00:04:10,732 --> 00:04:14,432 traveling and I've always wanted to travel with my family and so on. 72 00:04:14,462 --> 00:04:19,202 Uh, the, the main takeaway would be that it's, it's good to spend lots of time with 73 00:04:19,202 --> 00:04:22,082 family and go do adventures like this. 74 00:04:22,552 --> 00:04:25,742 Unfortunately, fiat money makes that very difficult because 75 00:04:25,742 --> 00:04:29,432 everyone is up to their eyeballs in debt and debt service becomes... 76 00:04:30,107 --> 00:04:34,367 Sort of the restricting thing for most people, you have a mortgage or a car 77 00:04:34,367 --> 00:04:38,907 loan or a student loan or you have a job that you need to be at to pay off 78 00:04:38,927 --> 00:04:41,187 all of that stuff so you can't leave. 79 00:04:41,617 --> 00:04:45,287 Um, and that, that's the real tragedy for me, is that more 80 00:04:45,307 --> 00:04:48,682 people don't get to do this because they're trapped by fiat money. 81 00:04:49,456 --> 00:04:54,276 We're all in a ha, or, we're not, but all the fiat people are in a hamster's 82 00:04:54,276 --> 00:04:59,346 wheel, uh, and that's like, for me, that's a lot of what Bitcoin is all 83 00:04:59,346 --> 00:05:06,256 about, it's about escaping that hamster's wheel, um, and, so, to Bitcoin adoption 84 00:05:06,256 --> 00:05:10,316 in the different countries, like, what, um, Where are the communities? 85 00:05:10,316 --> 00:05:12,596 Like where, where, where are we in the world? 86 00:05:12,596 --> 00:05:18,896 Like, uh, was there places that surprised you that adoption was, you know, more 87 00:05:18,901 --> 00:05:21,506 widespread in certain places than others? 88 00:05:21,991 --> 00:05:26,551 Yeah, I mean, it's a little hard to answer that question because I went 89 00:05:26,601 --> 00:05:30,101 to a lot of these countries and met with Bitcoiners, so of course they're 90 00:05:30,211 --> 00:05:32,651 already adopting Bitcoin or whatever. 91 00:05:32,661 --> 00:05:38,951 It's a little harder to tell with the normie person, but from what 92 00:05:38,951 --> 00:05:44,181 I hear, the places where you do have inflation problems, they 93 00:05:44,181 --> 00:05:45,651 tend to be the places where... 94 00:05:45,856 --> 00:05:47,536 people are the most interested. 95 00:05:47,546 --> 00:05:53,196 So Lebanon and Argentina are probably the two most 96 00:05:53,196 --> 00:05:55,156 hyperinflating places that I was at. 97 00:05:55,176 --> 00:06:00,086 Um, but you know, Egypt and Turkey are sort of in that process as well. 98 00:06:00,086 --> 00:06:02,586 And they, they seem to have a lot of people that were interested. 99 00:06:03,066 --> 00:06:07,996 Um, and adoption is a, is a little bit of a tricky term because, uh, the 100 00:06:07,996 --> 00:06:13,611 way most people use it is, you know, like Um, are people transacting in it? 101 00:06:13,621 --> 00:06:15,731 What can you buy with Bitcoin or something like that? 102 00:06:16,101 --> 00:06:19,441 Really, adoption is more people storing their value in it. 103 00:06:19,441 --> 00:06:23,211 And, um, and certainly there's a decent number of those people, 104 00:06:23,211 --> 00:06:24,721 especially in the Bitcoin community. 105 00:06:25,081 --> 00:06:27,741 Uh, what I will say though is that there, there are Bitcoin 106 00:06:27,741 --> 00:06:29,181 communities almost everywhere. 107 00:06:29,201 --> 00:06:31,716 Um, like, I was in Tbilisi, Georgia. 108 00:06:31,716 --> 00:06:36,706 I did not expect there to be that many, uh, Bitcoiners, uh, but there 109 00:06:36,706 --> 00:06:41,846 were, and in fact, that's like one of the big, uh, hotbeds of Bitcoin 110 00:06:41,846 --> 00:06:46,616 activity, largely because there's a lot of people coming out of Russia. 111 00:06:46,646 --> 00:06:51,361 This is one of the places that they've been going, uh, They're escaping Russia, 112 00:06:51,781 --> 00:06:56,641 and if they need to send money back and forth, the normal international 113 00:06:56,641 --> 00:07:01,801 rails for money transfer are not available, so they're using Bitcoin. 114 00:07:01,991 --> 00:07:06,591 Um, so, you know, you see like random stores with the Bitcoin sign 115 00:07:06,591 --> 00:07:11,021 and stuff, so you can go in like, uh, you know, send, send, uh, you 116 00:07:11,021 --> 00:07:15,181 know, Bitcoin back to relatives back home, I guess, if you're Russian. 117 00:07:15,651 --> 00:07:20,781 Um, And there's a lot of that, uh, all over the world, and it's not 118 00:07:20,781 --> 00:07:24,991 something that you would think of, but, um, you know, there's just 119 00:07:25,051 --> 00:07:27,131 kind of activity all over the place. 120 00:07:27,988 --> 00:07:31,178 and, and what, I mean, you've, you've been traveling a lot before 121 00:07:31,183 --> 00:07:33,788 as well, like for years now. 122 00:07:33,788 --> 00:07:38,698 Maybe not with your entire family, but, but, uh, what's the difference 123 00:07:38,698 --> 00:07:45,718 now in 2023 to say like five years back in terms of like, uh, Do people 124 00:07:45,718 --> 00:07:50,448 make the distinction between Bitcoin and crypto to a larger extent now or? 125 00:07:51,435 --> 00:07:52,815 Yeah, I would say that's the case. 126 00:07:53,285 --> 00:07:57,745 There's certainly a lot of, um, a lot more separation. 127 00:07:57,755 --> 00:08:01,475 Um, and, you know, the main thing that I've noticed is that pretty 128 00:08:01,475 --> 00:08:04,245 much every city that you go to... 129 00:08:04,685 --> 00:08:09,095 You know, they, they used to have a single meetup and then there were a bunch of shit 130 00:08:09,695 --> 00:08:14,675 Bitcoiners, and they went off and split to do their own meetup, or they kept that 131 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,515 meetup and the Bitcoiners actually created their own meetup or something like that. 132 00:08:18,995 --> 00:08:21,245 But there, there's usually a distinct set. 133 00:08:21,250 --> 00:08:24,635 There's some Bitcoiners and then there's crypto people. 134 00:08:24,695 --> 00:08:29,765 Um, the crypto people are almost always thinking about like 135 00:08:29,765 --> 00:08:31,565 the next I c O or something. 136 00:08:32,385 --> 00:08:36,815 You know, hey, here's a new DeFi product or here's a cool monkey JPEG or something. 137 00:08:37,205 --> 00:08:42,395 They're not thinking at all about sound money or, you know, uh, the, 138 00:08:42,405 --> 00:08:47,275 the life change that comes from having a good store of value there. 139 00:08:47,285 --> 00:08:51,135 They're thinking about, you know, how to get rich really quickly and, you know, 140 00:08:51,175 --> 00:08:54,365 um, CZ coming to town and stuff like that. 141 00:08:54,375 --> 00:08:56,615 It's, it's very shallow. 142 00:08:56,615 --> 00:08:57,335 It's very... 143 00:08:57,870 --> 00:09:03,360 Uh, much based on, um, sort of almost like celebrity news or something like that. 144 00:09:03,410 --> 00:09:05,680 Uh, the, the Bitcoiners, they get it. 145 00:09:05,710 --> 00:09:10,210 Um, and there's a lot more of those communities than say five years ago. 146 00:09:10,580 --> 00:09:14,960 Uh, and it's, uh, it's very encouraging to me, uh, especially in places like Asia 147 00:09:14,970 --> 00:09:17,190 where, uh, you know, you, you had this. 148 00:09:17,670 --> 00:09:23,440 This giant bubble of uh, and all sorts of scams that were happening 149 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,600 over there and it got like seriously overheated on that front. 150 00:09:28,140 --> 00:09:33,360 Um, but you know, there's like sort of a phoenix rising from the ashes kind of 151 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:39,300 thing where there's a core of Bitcoiners that are holding on and, uh, you know, 152 00:09:39,300 --> 00:09:44,110 they're, they're showing sort of the, the big difference between the two. 153 00:09:44,450 --> 00:09:48,180 So there, there is some, some daylight between those things. 154 00:09:48,210 --> 00:09:55,140 Um, and, you know, thankfully there, that, that seems to be sort of the 155 00:09:55,160 --> 00:10:00,730 evolution of this space is that you get people, uh, you know, you, you get a lot 156 00:10:00,730 --> 00:10:04,630 of people interested and it's sort of amorphous, but then there's sort of a. 157 00:10:04,965 --> 00:10:09,475 Separating of the Bitcoiners from crypto and that's a good thing. 158 00:10:10,252 --> 00:10:11,572 Yeah, who said that? 159 00:10:11,602 --> 00:10:13,102 Crypto is peak fiat. 160 00:10:14,062 --> 00:10:14,742 I like that. 161 00:10:16,602 --> 00:10:18,992 So when did you decide to write the book? 162 00:10:19,712 --> 00:10:22,822 Um, I started writing the book, uh, last year. 163 00:10:22,832 --> 00:10:27,932 Um, uh, I guess after taking, uh, David Perel's Rite of Passage 164 00:10:27,952 --> 00:10:33,142 course and I felt like I could write anything in, at any length. 165 00:10:33,142 --> 00:10:36,542 And I, I started writing columns for Bitcoin Magazine based on that. 166 00:10:36,592 --> 00:10:40,652 And, uh, I took some of those articles and put it into this book. 167 00:10:40,682 --> 00:10:43,482 Um, but yeah, a lot, large part of it was. 168 00:10:43,992 --> 00:10:49,102 written during the trip, um, written with a lot of conversations from, with 169 00:10:49,102 --> 00:10:53,752 Bitcoiners, you know, just talking about, you know, like how things are in different 170 00:10:53,752 --> 00:10:55,412 parts of the world and stuff like that. 171 00:10:55,802 --> 00:11:00,912 Uh, and yeah, it was, uh, it was really just sort of like, uh, 172 00:11:00,932 --> 00:11:02,962 something I was doing during the trip. 173 00:11:02,992 --> 00:11:10,782 Um, and I, I wanted to publish this book, anyway, and it turned out that Uh, 174 00:11:10,852 --> 00:11:16,272 talking to Bitcoiners all over the world was a great way to, like, distill and 175 00:11:16,272 --> 00:11:18,262 sharpen a lot of the thoughts that I had. 176 00:11:18,792 --> 00:11:21,212 Uh, but yeah, it's a fairly long book. 177 00:11:21,242 --> 00:11:25,082 It's, I think, the longest of the books that I've written, uh, you know, and 178 00:11:25,092 --> 00:11:26,712 that includes programming Bitcoin. 179 00:11:26,752 --> 00:11:32,952 So, uh, 340 pages, 90, 000 words, um, 6 parts, 30 something chapters. 180 00:11:32,962 --> 00:11:38,442 So, yeah, it's a fairly, Deep work and it's, uh, it's, yeah, 181 00:11:38,442 --> 00:11:39,742 it's, it's been fun writing it. 182 00:11:40,832 --> 00:11:43,832 I bet it's more accessible than programming Bitcoin, 183 00:11:43,842 --> 00:11:45,042 though, to most people. 184 00:11:46,672 --> 00:11:47,702 Certainly hope so. 185 00:11:47,702 --> 00:11:52,382 And that, that was, uh, that was sort of the goal with a lot of these books 186 00:11:52,382 --> 00:11:55,472 was to bring, uh, other people in. 187 00:11:55,502 --> 00:12:01,252 So part of that is making it short so that people can get into it really easily. 188 00:12:01,252 --> 00:12:04,042 So a little Bitcoin book, Thank God for Bitcoin, you know, 189 00:12:04,082 --> 00:12:05,232 Bitcoin and the American Dream. 190 00:12:05,232 --> 00:12:06,442 They're, they're all meant to be. 191 00:12:06,692 --> 00:12:11,692 Very quick read so that you can, you can get into it and get an idea and you 192 00:12:11,692 --> 00:12:16,562 know, just break down whatever barriers you might have, uh, or in getting 193 00:12:16,562 --> 00:12:18,202 intimidated or something like that. 194 00:12:18,602 --> 00:12:22,532 Uh, this one though is different in that it's, uh, it's aimed at Bitcoiners. 195 00:12:22,632 --> 00:12:25,752 So I, I want Bitcoiners mostly to read this book. 196 00:12:25,772 --> 00:12:28,672 Um, like if non Bitcoiners read it, that's fine. 197 00:12:28,722 --> 00:12:32,377 Uh, but Mostly, I want Bitcoiners to read it because I want them 198 00:12:32,377 --> 00:12:36,117 to really understand the depths of the fiat depravity that we're, 199 00:12:36,147 --> 00:12:37,987 we're experiencing in this world. 200 00:12:38,057 --> 00:12:43,957 So, um, you know, I, I write a lot about, um, the individual incentives, the 201 00:12:43,957 --> 00:12:48,407 company incentives, national incentives, the global dollar hegemony that we're 202 00:12:48,427 --> 00:12:53,387 under, um, the morality of fiat money and how it's really, truly evil. 203 00:12:54,072 --> 00:12:58,522 Finally, how, you know, we're, we're beset on two sides because all coiners 204 00:12:58,582 --> 00:13:03,762 are taking Bitcoin's good name and using it to pump their bags, uh, while 205 00:13:04,142 --> 00:13:09,272 You know, fiat people are trying to produce CBDCs and get sort of like a 206 00:13:09,272 --> 00:13:12,462 surveillance state of full control. 207 00:13:12,532 --> 00:13:17,042 So yeah, I mean, that's, that's basically how the book's organized. 208 00:13:17,042 --> 00:13:23,512 And hopefully it's something that a lot of Bitcoiners can use to really be 209 00:13:23,522 --> 00:13:25,732 convicted in their holding, I guess. 210 00:13:27,522 --> 00:13:29,702 Yeah, and what's your writing process like? 211 00:13:29,702 --> 00:13:31,872 I mean, what is writing to you? 212 00:13:31,872 --> 00:13:33,072 Is it therapeutic? 213 00:13:33,102 --> 00:13:37,622 Like, I know you have around 700 kids, and I guess writing is a 214 00:13:37,622 --> 00:13:41,352 way to zone out and get away from those responsibilities for a while. 215 00:13:41,362 --> 00:13:45,892 Like, when during the day do you find time for writing? 216 00:13:46,917 --> 00:13:51,597 Yeah, you know, it's, um, it used to be a lot harder than it is now, and I, I 217 00:13:51,597 --> 00:13:56,277 really do credit David Perel for helping me, like, uh, sort of unlock a lot of 218 00:13:56,277 --> 00:14:01,387 that, uh, because, you know, I, I took his course, uh, like, I think it was 219 00:14:01,407 --> 00:14:03,447 April of last year and, you know, it 220 00:14:03,482 --> 00:14:04,562 Write a passage. 221 00:14:04,792 --> 00:14:05,092 What's that? 222 00:14:05,252 --> 00:14:06,522 Yeah, rite of passage. 223 00:14:06,582 --> 00:14:09,162 W R I T E of passage. 224 00:14:09,162 --> 00:14:10,722 So it's a, it's a pun. 225 00:14:11,332 --> 00:14:16,442 Uh, anyway, he has a cohort starting if you're, if you're interested and you're in 226 00:14:16,442 --> 00:14:19,262 writing and want to write things easier. 227 00:14:19,262 --> 00:14:22,112 He has some really, really great material. 228 00:14:22,122 --> 00:14:26,432 So I took that course and I made it like super hard on myself. 229 00:14:26,432 --> 00:14:28,602 So it's like a five or six week course. 230 00:14:29,772 --> 00:14:32,962 And you're supposed to produce maybe like four articles, right? 231 00:14:33,022 --> 00:14:37,082 Um, like produce four pieces in those like five or six weeks. 232 00:14:37,522 --> 00:14:39,752 I decided to produce an article every day. 233 00:14:40,162 --> 00:14:42,862 So I like made it that much harder. 234 00:14:42,862 --> 00:14:45,692 I was like, this, this course costs a lot of money. 235 00:14:45,692 --> 00:14:50,372 I'm going to get, I'm going to squeeze every last drop of value from it. 236 00:14:50,902 --> 00:14:56,072 And I did that and it was a wonderful experience because I learned to just... 237 00:14:56,892 --> 00:15:01,652 Sort of, uh, organize my ideas and, you know, part of his, um, part of the 238 00:15:01,652 --> 00:15:06,882 thing that I learned is that, uh, you know, you don't write from a blank page 239 00:15:06,912 --> 00:15:10,852 and too many writers get into that mode where they just like face a blank page, 240 00:15:10,912 --> 00:15:13,892 they go to the blank page and go, all right, what am I going to write about? 241 00:15:13,912 --> 00:15:18,262 And then they try to come up with ideas and it's, it, and you 242 00:15:18,262 --> 00:15:22,262 get into like writer's block and all, all sorts of other things. 243 00:15:22,262 --> 00:15:23,132 And, uh, and. 244 00:15:23,557 --> 00:15:28,037 David's whole thing is you should be collecting ideas all the time, and 245 00:15:28,047 --> 00:15:31,757 everything that you read, you should be taking notes, you should be, um, 246 00:15:31,837 --> 00:15:36,547 you know, adding sort of like ideas that you have to yourself and, uh, and 247 00:15:36,587 --> 00:15:41,887 collecting them somewhere, and when you have a lot of these things, uh, and 248 00:15:41,947 --> 00:15:45,527 they're somewhat organized, then you don't have to start from a blank page. 249 00:15:45,527 --> 00:15:50,407 You take your ideas and you try to express them in a coherent manner. 250 00:15:51,012 --> 00:15:54,832 And, uh, and you take that and then now you have some raw material 251 00:15:54,832 --> 00:15:56,352 and it's a lot easier to write. 252 00:15:56,812 --> 00:16:03,902 Um, I also learned to sort of like, uh, unblock myself almost, uh, 253 00:16:04,372 --> 00:16:10,252 and you, uh, and sort of just get the ideas out or explanations out. 254 00:16:10,292 --> 00:16:15,352 And, uh, you know, one of the methods in which you can do that is get, 255 00:16:15,412 --> 00:16:17,442 uh, you know, something like otter. 256 00:16:17,512 --> 00:16:18,402 ai for your phone. 257 00:16:19,667 --> 00:16:23,107 And just explain what you're going to write about as if to a friend, right? 258 00:16:23,157 --> 00:16:26,737 Um, just, okay, what, what, what are you writing an essay about? 259 00:16:26,737 --> 00:16:29,787 Why am I writing about this and blah, blah, blah, and just explain it. 260 00:16:30,197 --> 00:16:35,507 In plain words, as if you're talking to a friend, you could take that and use 261 00:16:35,507 --> 00:16:37,657 that as your first draft and refine it. 262 00:16:38,087 --> 00:16:41,327 And that actually works pretty well, amazingly enough. 263 00:16:41,717 --> 00:16:45,997 Um, there, there are lots of other stuff that he teaches, uh, and, you 264 00:16:45,997 --> 00:16:52,137 know, I, I practiced a lot of them and I was able to essentially make essays 265 00:16:52,207 --> 00:16:54,997 much more quickly than I, I was before. 266 00:16:55,612 --> 00:17:00,072 Uh, and essentially this book is a collection of essays and, you know, 267 00:17:00,072 --> 00:17:05,622 I, I can knock out 500 to a thousand words without a problem, uh, just, you 268 00:17:05,622 --> 00:17:10,362 know, like coming up with, like having some ideas already about what I want 269 00:17:10,362 --> 00:17:14,682 to write about and then refining it in a first draft and then going through 270 00:17:14,712 --> 00:17:18,102 second, third draft and, and then, you know, you're pretty much done at that. 271 00:17:18,112 --> 00:17:18,122 Oh 272 00:17:20,262 --> 00:17:20,722 Cool. 273 00:17:20,772 --> 00:17:25,252 Um, yeah, it reminds me of, of, uh, my writing process for the first book, where 274 00:17:25,292 --> 00:17:27,222 I promised myself to write a page a day. 275 00:17:27,222 --> 00:17:30,112 That's way less than 5, 000 words, though. 276 00:17:30,522 --> 00:17:32,092 Uh, it's probably more like a... 277 00:17:32,842 --> 00:17:34,322 A page a day is maybe like... 278 00:17:35,537 --> 00:17:35,847 250 or 279 00:17:36,062 --> 00:17:36,642 Yeah, yeah. 280 00:17:36,642 --> 00:17:40,672 So it's, uh, it's not very much, but it's still, that was like the 281 00:17:40,672 --> 00:17:42,342 first attempt, and that really... 282 00:17:42,652 --> 00:17:47,662 Having some sort of disciplined routine helps for sure and uh yeah and to the 283 00:17:47,662 --> 00:17:51,742 other like I started every chapter by asking myself a question and then 284 00:17:51,782 --> 00:17:55,712 um you know the rest of the chapter was answering that question which I 285 00:17:56,372 --> 00:18:00,632 take it is sort of what you did when explaining what you were going to write 286 00:18:00,877 --> 00:18:01,777 Yeah. 287 00:18:01,777 --> 00:18:02,057 Yeah. 288 00:18:02,057 --> 00:18:05,487 I mean, that, that, that's a, that's a writing prompt method. 289 00:18:05,487 --> 00:18:07,317 And that, that can be very helpful. 290 00:18:07,317 --> 00:18:11,512 And like, just sort of like, Uh, there's usually a step I would take 291 00:18:11,512 --> 00:18:15,252 in between if I were to do it that way of just sort of getting the main 292 00:18:15,252 --> 00:18:19,862 ideas out on a piece of paper, uh, the brainstorming stage where you just sort 293 00:18:19,862 --> 00:18:24,572 of, uh, write a bunch of, um, ideas on what you want to write about or how 294 00:18:24,572 --> 00:18:26,082 you're going to answer the question. 295 00:18:26,532 --> 00:18:30,402 Um, the other thing, uh, that you mentioned about having 296 00:18:30,432 --> 00:18:31,752 some sort of discipline. 297 00:18:32,097 --> 00:18:37,317 Um, I, I was fortunate enough to have Parker as a good friend and he, he 298 00:18:37,317 --> 00:18:38,857 was writing a book at the same time. 299 00:18:38,857 --> 00:18:41,347 So we just like checked in on each other. 300 00:18:41,347 --> 00:18:44,597 We kept each other accountable by, uh, you know, doing a call 301 00:18:44,597 --> 00:18:47,477 every week and just saying, okay, what did you work on last week? 302 00:18:47,477 --> 00:18:48,757 What are you going to work on this week? 303 00:18:48,757 --> 00:18:49,117 And then. 304 00:18:49,642 --> 00:18:52,302 Talk about it and, you know, what, what were your blockers? 305 00:18:52,302 --> 00:18:56,182 How can we, um, you know, help each other get past these blocks or whatever? 306 00:18:56,652 --> 00:19:01,712 Um, and, you know, like, uh, uh, give resources to each other to figure out 307 00:19:01,712 --> 00:19:04,482 what, uh, what could work and so on. 308 00:19:04,482 --> 00:19:07,302 So, uh, so that, that was really useful too. 309 00:19:07,302 --> 00:19:12,052 And, uh, for any aspiring writer out there, like go, go get yourself into like 310 00:19:12,052 --> 00:19:13,582 a writer's group or something, right? 311 00:19:13,582 --> 00:19:16,992 Like having other writers around. 312 00:19:17,287 --> 00:19:21,367 Even if they're not reading your stuff, just to be able to say, Hey, 313 00:19:21,367 --> 00:19:25,557 I did what I, uh, what I said I was going to do makes all the difference. 314 00:19:25,687 --> 00:19:25,887 Right? 315 00:19:25,937 --> 00:19:30,487 Uh, like having somebody there to tell you, Hey, like. 316 00:19:31,112 --> 00:19:36,252 Okay, like, we're going to meet about this is sometimes enough of a deadline 317 00:19:36,252 --> 00:19:40,662 where you're going to work feverishly the night before to actually have 318 00:19:40,662 --> 00:19:45,102 something to say at the, at the writer's group that you're going to meet at. 319 00:19:45,442 --> 00:19:50,872 Otherwise, like, it's just way too easy to be lazy and just, you know, ignore things 320 00:19:50,872 --> 00:19:57,392 for, you know, weeks, months, years, uh, sometimes and that, that's, uh, um, 321 00:19:57,422 --> 00:20:01,082 that's something that you have to really check yourself on if you're a writer. 322 00:20:01,092 --> 00:20:01,112 Yeah. 323 00:20:01,859 --> 00:20:03,729 Yeah, there are no shortcuts. 324 00:20:04,839 --> 00:20:08,259 Well, maybe there are shortcuts, like AI. 325 00:20:08,289 --> 00:20:10,969 How much AI did you use, and how did you use it? 326 00:20:11,839 --> 00:20:16,219 Yeah, so I, I use some chat GPT and, uh, the, the night, the 327 00:20:16,219 --> 00:20:20,409 really nice thing about AI is that, uh, it's almost instantaneous. 328 00:20:20,429 --> 00:20:24,949 So if you've ever used an editor, um, you know, you, you send your 329 00:20:24,949 --> 00:20:28,559 stuff to them and they don't respond for like two weeks and you're just, 330 00:20:29,109 --> 00:20:32,329 you know, you had all this momentum writing and editing on all that stuff. 331 00:20:32,329 --> 00:20:35,229 And then suddenly, like, you just, you have nothing to do for 332 00:20:35,229 --> 00:20:38,989 two weeks because if you change anything, then the editor is like. 333 00:20:39,509 --> 00:20:42,129 You're, you're basically forking your own book. 334 00:20:42,139 --> 00:20:48,099 Um, but, uh, but if you're, if, if, you know, and during those two weeks, 335 00:20:48,099 --> 00:20:51,119 you might lose a lot of momentum, get distracted, do other stuff. 336 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,679 So it's like hard to get back into it when the editor finally gets it to you. 337 00:20:55,089 --> 00:21:00,219 Um, so a large part of what I used ChatGPT for was as an editor. 338 00:21:00,219 --> 00:21:02,319 So you can, you can give it a good prompt. 339 00:21:02,349 --> 00:21:06,029 Uh, what, like, you're going to be my book editor. 340 00:21:06,384 --> 00:21:11,214 And you're going to correct all grammar, um, you know, try to make 341 00:21:11,224 --> 00:21:15,694 things that sound confusing sound more clear, um, and stuff like that. 342 00:21:16,064 --> 00:21:20,544 And, you know, you can tell it, okay, edit it really, really lightly 343 00:21:20,564 --> 00:21:22,444 or edit it completely, right? 344 00:21:22,484 --> 00:21:26,644 And you can, you can sort of tweak that based on the prompt that you give it. 345 00:21:27,034 --> 00:21:32,234 Um, I generally went very light, um, you know, just correct few things and, you 346 00:21:32,234 --> 00:21:35,524 know, if there's any grammar errors or something like that, please correct that. 347 00:21:35,524 --> 00:21:35,794 But. 348 00:21:36,259 --> 00:21:40,589 Like, don't change the ideas too much or anything or, um, you know, 349 00:21:40,719 --> 00:21:42,889 just make things sound clear. 350 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,969 Um, and that, that was really useful because you get 351 00:21:45,989 --> 00:21:47,809 instantaneous feedback, pretty much. 352 00:21:47,819 --> 00:21:52,929 So you can, you, you can take a paragraph and just be like, okay, like, um, edit 353 00:21:52,929 --> 00:21:54,679 it and let's, let's read it again. 354 00:21:55,079 --> 00:21:55,509 And... 355 00:21:55,884 --> 00:22:00,114 It works as sort of like a second draft, and then you're 356 00:22:00,294 --> 00:22:01,634 going to have to edit it again. 357 00:22:01,644 --> 00:22:05,744 Whatever the AI does, it's going to mess up in some way, so you're 358 00:22:05,744 --> 00:22:07,024 going to need to edit it again. 359 00:22:07,474 --> 00:22:12,544 But it's great feedback, and it doesn't stop your momentum. 360 00:22:12,564 --> 00:22:16,134 It keeps you going, and you can do it as many times as you 361 00:22:16,134 --> 00:22:18,244 want, which is really nice. 362 00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:23,969 Um, uh, you know, if you, if you don't like how something is like coming and then 363 00:22:23,969 --> 00:22:29,639 you can, you can start over and try again and you don't, you don't have to, um, 364 00:22:30,379 --> 00:22:32,759 uh, you don't have to kind of get stuck. 365 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,329 Uh, and more importantly, like you can ask the AI, like, okay, why, 366 00:22:37,339 --> 00:22:38,889 why did you make these changes? 367 00:22:38,889 --> 00:22:41,809 Like, tell me specifically what was the rationale. 368 00:22:42,234 --> 00:22:46,954 And you can, you can sort of understand what, what the motivations are based 369 00:22:46,954 --> 00:22:50,874 on the prompts that you're giving it and, uh, and you can tweak those too. 370 00:22:50,874 --> 00:22:54,024 So, uh, it was, it was a very useful tool. 371 00:22:54,044 --> 00:22:57,484 I, I think personally think that's probably why we're getting 372 00:22:57,484 --> 00:23:00,334 like an explosion of books right now in the Bitcoin space. 373 00:23:00,374 --> 00:23:02,224 Um, I think, uh, you know. 374 00:23:02,654 --> 00:23:08,564 I published and then like Lynn Alden had a book, uh, come out and Parker obviously 375 00:23:08,564 --> 00:23:13,564 has one, Mark Goodwin has one, and there's another guy from Bitcoin Magazine that 376 00:23:13,564 --> 00:23:18,434 has another one, and I mean, there's like five or six books that came out like at 377 00:23:18,434 --> 00:23:21,954 the same time, so a lot of people are complaining about the amount of books 378 00:23:21,974 --> 00:23:26,594 that they're going to need to read, but I mean, this is, it makes the writing, the 379 00:23:26,594 --> 00:23:28,614 writing process has gotten more efficient. 380 00:23:28,624 --> 00:23:31,319 You're, you're going to see more of it, and that's, That's 381 00:23:31,319 --> 00:23:32,579 kind of where we are right now. 382 00:23:33,134 --> 00:23:39,999 Yeah, that's definitely been an explosion, and like, I'm happy that we got into 383 00:23:39,999 --> 00:23:44,499 the door early on by writing books before this whole thing started, like, 384 00:23:45,116 --> 00:23:47,126 Okay, we have some big news. 385 00:23:47,496 --> 00:23:49,736 We have a new lead sponsor, AmberApp. 386 00:23:50,576 --> 00:23:53,176 They're the number one exchange in the Southern Hemisphere. 387 00:23:53,486 --> 00:23:56,386 They're rated for the best customer service around and 388 00:23:56,406 --> 00:23:58,126 their global launch is coming. 389 00:23:58,796 --> 00:24:03,306 But the reason we're partnering with AmberApp is because of the people. 390 00:24:03,836 --> 00:24:06,946 If you haven't listened to our episode with Izzy, CEO of AmberApp, 391 00:24:07,006 --> 00:24:08,806 you really should go check it out. 392 00:24:09,496 --> 00:24:13,386 You'll see why it made perfect sense to partner with Izzy and AmberApp. 393 00:24:13,756 --> 00:24:14,226 That's it. 394 00:24:14,446 --> 00:24:17,026 All I'll say for now, you really have to check it out for yourself. 395 00:24:17,636 --> 00:24:20,676 They have loads of great features coming that we're excited to share 396 00:24:20,676 --> 00:24:24,046 with you when the time comes, but for now, just check out the episode, 397 00:24:24,046 --> 00:24:25,436 check out their website, Ampr. 398 00:24:25,436 --> 00:24:25,716 app. 399 00:24:26,226 --> 00:24:29,112 You can see for yourself, why we're thrilled to bring Ampr. 400 00:24:29,112 --> 00:24:31,052 app on as our lead sponsor and partner. 401 00:24:31,482 --> 00:24:32,222 So go check it out. 402 00:24:32,962 --> 00:24:34,531 Next up WasabiWallet. 403 00:24:34,771 --> 00:24:38,221 The privacy by default, open source, non custodial Bitcoin 404 00:24:38,221 --> 00:24:39,931 wallet with CoinJoin built in. 405 00:24:40,511 --> 00:24:44,501 It's the easy to use, comprehensive, affordable way to make your coins private. 406 00:24:45,066 --> 00:24:48,076 And the best part is, they've been making huge improvements to the app. 407 00:24:48,386 --> 00:24:51,336 They're really focusing on the user experience, adding advanced 408 00:24:51,446 --> 00:24:53,996 features for power users, they just keep getting better. 409 00:24:54,516 --> 00:24:57,996 You send your coins to your Wasabi wallet, and they get combined with loads of 410 00:24:57,996 --> 00:25:02,116 other coins using the Wabi Sabi protocol, so they're private on the other end. 411 00:25:02,656 --> 00:25:06,166 Your tracks are covered so you can work on expanding your Freedom Footprint 412 00:25:06,316 --> 00:25:07,996 without worrying about your privacy. 413 00:25:08,876 --> 00:25:09,786 So, check out wasabiwallet. 414 00:25:09,786 --> 00:25:12,956 io and download Wasabi today. 415 00:25:13,214 --> 00:25:18,744 So speaking of AI, it's a great tool, but like, the way I see 416 00:25:18,744 --> 00:25:20,054 it, it's, that's what it is. 417 00:25:20,074 --> 00:25:20,804 It's a tool. 418 00:25:20,804 --> 00:25:22,974 It's a Swiss Army knife, if you will. 419 00:25:24,374 --> 00:25:30,394 The term intelligence is so misleading because I think like to really be an 420 00:25:30,644 --> 00:25:34,544 artificial intelligence and this Skynet type of artificial intelligence that 421 00:25:34,544 --> 00:25:41,304 people are scared of that suddenly has a will of its own, uh, that requires 422 00:25:41,334 --> 00:25:47,304 agency and requires, probably requires a sense of felt uneasiness, right? 423 00:25:47,304 --> 00:25:48,804 To use a Mississian term. 424 00:25:49,094 --> 00:25:55,609 Uh, For, for, uh, for a, um, an entity to engage in actual action, 425 00:25:55,759 --> 00:25:57,729 to, to make a decision on their own. 426 00:25:58,209 --> 00:26:00,709 Um, so what's your take there? 427 00:26:00,709 --> 00:26:04,709 I'm curious about what, what you think about AI and, and if it can 428 00:26:04,709 --> 00:26:08,909 ever be truly autonomous, can it ever be anything than a perfect slave? 429 00:26:08,989 --> 00:26:10,909 Can it be its own master at some point? 430 00:26:11,819 --> 00:26:14,349 Yeah, I think you put it pretty well. 431 00:26:14,679 --> 00:26:16,389 It doesn't have a will of its own. 432 00:26:16,389 --> 00:26:21,559 And this is the part that almost every AI doomer seems to be missing, is that 433 00:26:21,779 --> 00:26:25,499 it doesn't have a will, it just does. 434 00:26:26,634 --> 00:26:31,554 And then, like, this is the difference between, like, something that is living 435 00:26:31,554 --> 00:26:35,704 and something that is dead, is that it has a will of its own, it has motivations, it 436 00:26:35,714 --> 00:26:41,834 has, it wants to do something, it wants to achieve a goal, and AI does not, it 437 00:26:41,864 --> 00:26:47,404 only has a goal as far as you define it for it, and you say, okay, I want you 438 00:26:47,404 --> 00:26:49,534 to do this, And then you can do this. 439 00:26:49,944 --> 00:26:56,164 Um, but, uh, but this points out something to me that, uh, that I 440 00:26:56,164 --> 00:27:00,734 think a lot of people miss with respect to genuine innovation, 441 00:27:01,114 --> 00:27:05,894 which is that, uh, you know, hyped innovation like fiat innovation, right? 442 00:27:05,914 --> 00:27:06,604 Fake science. 443 00:27:06,604 --> 00:27:10,804 And there, there's a whole chapter in my book about fiat science and how 444 00:27:11,674 --> 00:27:13,844 more or less socialist it is right now. 445 00:27:14,164 --> 00:27:14,564 Um. 446 00:27:15,104 --> 00:27:19,064 But, uh, you know, there's a lot of hype, for example, about, 447 00:27:19,064 --> 00:27:23,114 like, quantum computing or cold fusion or stuff like that. 448 00:27:23,524 --> 00:27:28,584 And you can, you can always tell that these things are not for real and that 449 00:27:28,584 --> 00:27:34,264 there's nothing really coming around the corner because the, the, you 450 00:27:34,264 --> 00:27:36,344 know, it's always sort of hyped up. 451 00:27:36,364 --> 00:27:40,264 It's, no one's really, like, necessarily scared of it. 452 00:27:40,264 --> 00:27:43,814 I mean, they, they might say, oh, it can break this and break that or whatever. 453 00:27:44,234 --> 00:27:49,834 But generally, it's, uh, it's just people sort of asserting that this 454 00:27:49,834 --> 00:27:54,634 might or might not happen, or, uh, you know, it's just around the corner, it's 455 00:27:54,684 --> 00:27:56,424 20 years away, something like that. 456 00:27:56,864 --> 00:28:01,844 Whereas, uh, with, with AI, there's a lot of fear around it, right? 457 00:28:01,844 --> 00:28:06,254 There's a lot of people saying, oh, the, there, Skynet, and these, uh, 458 00:28:06,649 --> 00:28:10,209 You know, uh, things are going to take over or something like that. 459 00:28:11,019 --> 00:28:14,919 Almost all innovation, if you look back, has that element. 460 00:28:14,939 --> 00:28:20,029 So, for example, when cell phones first came out, you know, everyone 461 00:28:20,029 --> 00:28:23,229 was saying, hey, you're going to get cancer in your brain because, you know, 462 00:28:23,239 --> 00:28:27,299 it's too close and you got all these electromagnetic waves and stuff like that. 463 00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:30,539 Uh, when the internet first came out, oh, it's going to be like... 464 00:28:30,744 --> 00:28:33,894 Just all porn and, you know, no one's gonna, you know, it's 465 00:28:33,894 --> 00:28:35,344 going to degrade our morals and 466 00:28:35,419 --> 00:28:37,759 And it's just 30 percent porn, so it's fine. 467 00:28:39,314 --> 00:28:43,004 But, uh, uh, you know, when the microwave first came out, it was, 468 00:28:43,044 --> 00:28:46,264 uh, you know, it's, uh, it's going to take all nutritional value out 469 00:28:46,264 --> 00:28:47,554 of the food that you put in it. 470 00:28:47,554 --> 00:28:51,104 And when electricity first came out, yeah, it's, it's going to. 471 00:28:51,489 --> 00:28:55,189 Uh, kill everything and, you know, cause more fires and 472 00:28:55,539 --> 00:28:56,769 all kinds of stuff like that. 473 00:28:56,769 --> 00:29:00,979 When automobiles came out, it's going to be like a debt of prostitution 474 00:29:00,979 --> 00:29:05,729 and all this other, like there, there's always FUD around new tech. 475 00:29:05,769 --> 00:29:10,619 Um, and, and, you know, Bitcoin of course has, has had it in spades. 476 00:29:11,119 --> 00:29:17,829 But the fact that, you know, we have this FUD around or this sort of like, 477 00:29:19,289 --> 00:29:23,239 A lot of people just sort of scared about AI tells me that it's a genuine 478 00:29:23,239 --> 00:29:27,109 innovation, that it's a genuine tool, that it's something that's actually real, 479 00:29:27,509 --> 00:29:32,599 as opposed to something fake like, uh, you know, quantum, uh, quantum computing 480 00:29:32,599 --> 00:29:34,989 or co fusion or something like that. 481 00:29:35,459 --> 00:29:42,949 Because in a sense, like even the people that are, you know, deeply into AI, like 482 00:29:42,949 --> 00:29:48,249 the open AI people, even if they don't really understand how it works, right? 483 00:29:48,259 --> 00:29:52,889 And this is something I point out in the science chapter is that most of 484 00:29:52,889 --> 00:29:58,259 the time, the way innovation occurs is, is not through You know, study of 485 00:29:58,279 --> 00:30:00,779 theory, it's, it's engineers, right? 486 00:30:00,779 --> 00:30:02,379 It's, it's people that are doing stuff. 487 00:30:02,399 --> 00:30:06,339 And most of the time engineers figure, figure something out and 488 00:30:06,339 --> 00:30:09,189 they're like, I don't know why this works, but it works great. 489 00:30:09,209 --> 00:30:11,169 And I'm going to, I'm going to use it to build stuff. 490 00:30:11,669 --> 00:30:16,089 And then, and then the theoreticians come in later and they, they explain it by 491 00:30:16,109 --> 00:30:18,239 the ideal gas law or something like that. 492 00:30:18,619 --> 00:30:21,029 But, you know, the, the engineers find it first. 493 00:30:21,549 --> 00:30:26,434 And I, I, I suspect that's what's going on with AI in that, uh, that's You know, 494 00:30:26,434 --> 00:30:28,284 they, they found something that works. 495 00:30:28,304 --> 00:30:30,264 They don't really understand how it works. 496 00:30:30,464 --> 00:30:35,264 It's, it's using some sort of like neural net and, uh, various 497 00:30:35,314 --> 00:30:38,484 weighings of like billions of parameters and things like that. 498 00:30:38,494 --> 00:30:44,274 They, you know, and it's based on, okay, like a cat is related to a dog because 499 00:30:44,284 --> 00:30:49,364 they're both kind of pets and, you know, you take this giant corpus of text and 500 00:30:49,754 --> 00:30:54,634 find out relationships and the frequency with which they like, uh, happen and. 501 00:30:55,464 --> 00:31:00,374 They make these relationships and, uh, and somehow it comes out with 502 00:31:00,374 --> 00:31:02,244 something that's kind of sensible. 503 00:31:02,684 --> 00:31:05,524 And they don't really understand how that works at all. 504 00:31:05,564 --> 00:31:11,734 Like the, the, the actual like algorithms, yeah, we understand, but the, the way 505 00:31:11,734 --> 00:31:14,794 it comes up with the actual output. 506 00:31:15,109 --> 00:31:16,799 We don't really understand, right? 507 00:31:16,839 --> 00:31:18,229 But it's there. 508 00:31:18,319 --> 00:31:21,619 And it's, uh, you know, it's kind of, because we don't understand 509 00:31:21,619 --> 00:31:26,129 it, we, a lot of people are kind of scared of it and think that it's 510 00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:27,699 going to destroy the world somehow. 511 00:31:28,099 --> 00:31:30,679 But that, that's how you know it's a genuine innovation. 512 00:31:30,679 --> 00:31:36,194 It's, it's engineers that Produce something and it's not, you know, fiat 513 00:31:36,194 --> 00:31:41,534 academics that are, you know, doing mental masturbation or something, right? 514 00:31:41,554 --> 00:31:45,734 Like it's, it's, it's a much better, uh, sort of system. 515 00:31:45,784 --> 00:31:51,614 And this is how innovation occurred in the past, not centralized, top down, we're 516 00:31:51,624 --> 00:31:53,744 going to make this happen kind of thing. 517 00:31:53,744 --> 00:31:54,084 But. 518 00:31:54,494 --> 00:31:58,054 Bottom up, decentralized, you know, just people trying stuff 519 00:31:58,094 --> 00:32:00,404 and then, oh, wow, that worked. 520 00:32:00,574 --> 00:32:03,214 Okay, let's, let's see why it works. 521 00:32:04,095 --> 00:32:11,085 Yeah, so, so could the fears around it and the people confusing real stupidity 522 00:32:11,085 --> 00:32:15,225 for artificial intelligence, because, you know, those who can't tell this, 523 00:32:16,345 --> 00:32:21,143 who don't understand agency and that you have to have a, a desire an end to 524 00:32:21,143 --> 00:32:23,693 use means to reach that end and stuff. 525 00:32:23,993 --> 00:32:26,823 People who don't understand Austrian economics, basically. 526 00:32:27,113 --> 00:32:30,183 Is it because they're NPCs themselves and lack will? 527 00:32:30,493 --> 00:32:33,383 Like, is that why they're scared? 528 00:32:33,393 --> 00:32:35,803 Because that's where the confusion lies. 529 00:32:35,833 --> 00:32:39,553 Because they, they're not very good at thinking and doing stuff. 530 00:32:40,088 --> 00:32:40,798 Possibly. 531 00:32:40,798 --> 00:32:46,618 I suspect that what fiat money has done is taken or reduced 532 00:32:47,558 --> 00:32:51,153 people's Desire for agency, right? 533 00:32:51,353 --> 00:32:54,583 Or they, they, they get scared of agency because now they're 534 00:32:54,593 --> 00:32:56,693 responsible for their own choices. 535 00:32:56,743 --> 00:33:01,293 And basically you get 12 years of government schooling, at least, uh, 536 00:33:01,323 --> 00:33:06,163 where you're told that, you know, there are experts and those are the 537 00:33:06,173 --> 00:33:07,813 people that you should listen to. 538 00:33:07,813 --> 00:33:08,503 And. 539 00:33:08,763 --> 00:33:12,653 There, there's all this sort of like almost moral language around, um, you 540 00:33:12,653 --> 00:33:18,403 know, listening to the, to your superiors or something like that, which has, um, 541 00:33:18,773 --> 00:33:25,803 I think as you've alluded to, uh, reduce their, uh, agency in many ways, they, 542 00:33:25,813 --> 00:33:31,523 they, they, they don't, um, necessarily want things, uh, they certainly 543 00:33:31,523 --> 00:33:35,793 don't want things that are deep and meaningful if they want anything at all. 544 00:33:35,793 --> 00:33:36,503 It's, it's, it's, it's. 545 00:33:36,663 --> 00:33:40,223 It's very shallow and immediate and a high time preference. 546 00:33:40,253 --> 00:33:45,913 So that those are, uh, you know, generally the incentives 547 00:33:45,913 --> 00:33:48,113 of fiat money is that it does. 548 00:33:48,753 --> 00:33:54,603 Uh, produce very high time preference and living for now, um, and part of 549 00:33:54,603 --> 00:34:01,283 the NPC mindset is, you know, not figuring out eternal truths, but, you 550 00:34:01,283 --> 00:34:05,533 know, what will get me out of trouble right now and make sure that I don't 551 00:34:05,533 --> 00:34:09,733 get in trouble right now, instead of like, sort of standing your ground and 552 00:34:09,733 --> 00:34:12,013 saying, you know, I think this is right. 553 00:34:13,383 --> 00:34:17,873 Certainly for those of us that were against lockdowns and vaccines and 554 00:34:17,873 --> 00:34:22,103 stuff like that from three years ago, standing your ground actually turns 555 00:34:22,103 --> 00:34:23,683 out to have been the correct choice. 556 00:34:24,509 --> 00:34:31,239 but, you know, for the NPC, it's, uh, you know, it's, you know, whatever Fauci was 557 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:36,969 saying that week, you, you kind of had to spout and sadly it changed every week. 558 00:34:36,969 --> 00:34:40,819 So they were intellectually completely inconsistent, but that 559 00:34:40,819 --> 00:34:42,419 didn't really matter because. 560 00:34:42,899 --> 00:34:46,989 They're high time preference anyway, and Uh, intellectual consistency 561 00:34:46,989 --> 00:34:51,729 is a long term virtue, so they just kept, you know, doubling down on it. 562 00:34:51,749 --> 00:34:55,099 Well, two weeks to flatten the curve and, you know, masks don't 563 00:34:55,099 --> 00:34:57,169 work, but no, masks do work. 564 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:02,229 No, you need multiple masks, uh, and you need to, uh, you know, masks were, 565 00:35:02,279 --> 00:35:08,729 uh, work except, you know, and like, you need to wear a mask all the time unless 566 00:35:08,729 --> 00:35:10,859 you're protesting Black Lives Matter. 567 00:35:10,879 --> 00:35:15,199 Um, you know, like, it just became, like, more and more twisted. 568 00:35:15,619 --> 00:35:20,249 Uh, and that's, that's sort of the direction that, uh, that 569 00:35:20,379 --> 00:35:21,839 fiat money pushes you into. 570 00:35:22,369 --> 00:35:26,919 And I, I suspect what you're saying is correct in that it makes us a little 571 00:35:26,919 --> 00:35:33,069 less human because our agency, our will, our, uh, our desires, uh, and 572 00:35:33,079 --> 00:35:35,289 being able to act on those things. 573 00:35:35,739 --> 00:35:36,959 Is what makes us human. 574 00:35:36,959 --> 00:35:42,529 It's, it's, it's very different than, um, uh, you know, uh, you know, what a 575 00:35:42,579 --> 00:35:47,409 plant, what, what a rock can do, but, you know, even amongst living things, 576 00:35:47,949 --> 00:35:50,209 you know, we, we have way more agency. 577 00:35:50,209 --> 00:35:55,569 We have more, more, um, more ability to do different things to 578 00:35:55,609 --> 00:35:57,959 act on the desires that we have. 579 00:35:57,989 --> 00:36:03,589 And sadly, you know, uh, fiat money, I guess in a way makes us less human. 580 00:36:04,446 --> 00:36:05,366 Yeah, beautiful poet. 581 00:36:05,556 --> 00:36:10,296 I mean, I've heard a lot of psychologists, specifically a Belgian 582 00:36:10,296 --> 00:36:16,806 one called Matthias Desmets, I think, talk about like mass formation. 583 00:36:17,116 --> 00:36:21,366 He doesn't use the word mass psychosis, but he's alluding to it, I think. 584 00:36:23,031 --> 00:36:27,331 In this that the, um, what you were talking about the rules that changed every 585 00:36:27,331 --> 00:36:33,061 day when Fauci said this or Fauci said that, uh, and, uh, this psychologist's 586 00:36:33,241 --> 00:36:38,781 point is that it becomes a virtually, a virtue signaling mechanism for the 587 00:36:38,781 --> 00:36:44,061 NPC to be good at adapting to the new rules, no matter how absurd they are. 588 00:36:44,491 --> 00:36:48,900 And the more absurd they get and the more they change, the stronger this urge 589 00:36:48,901 --> 00:36:52,231 to, to follow the flock and be, be like. 590 00:36:52,646 --> 00:36:56,706 ahead of the curve that you're supposed to flatten, uh, that 591 00:36:56,706 --> 00:36:59,266 becomes a, uh, a thing in itself. 592 00:36:59,386 --> 00:37:05,846 Uh, so, so, uh, and I think this is, is very common in, in humans to, to 593 00:37:05,846 --> 00:37:09,286 have this mass dilution thing going on. 594 00:37:09,286 --> 00:37:15,396 So, so is fiat that, like, is fiat a great big mass psychosis thing 595 00:37:15,426 --> 00:37:16,986 for, for lack of a better word? 596 00:37:17,696 --> 00:37:21,286 Well, so I would frame it maybe slightly differently, and I have 597 00:37:21,286 --> 00:37:24,806 a whole chapter on this, on how fiat makes everything political. 598 00:37:24,846 --> 00:37:29,926 So, uh, so what fiat money does, because of the existence of the money printer, 599 00:37:31,006 --> 00:37:37,736 It means that more or less that, uh, you know, it, it makes all issues political. 600 00:37:37,766 --> 00:37:39,826 So I don't have healthcare. 601 00:37:39,836 --> 00:37:44,626 Healthcare is now a political issue because you have a money 602 00:37:44,626 --> 00:37:48,866 printer and therefore the money printer can essentially print 603 00:37:48,866 --> 00:37:50,076 money to solve my problem. 604 00:37:50,076 --> 00:37:53,786 So, um, you know, alluding back to this whole agency thing. 605 00:37:54,081 --> 00:37:58,471 Whenever you have a problem and you're a normal human being in a sound money 606 00:37:58,471 --> 00:38:03,051 world, you try to go solve it yourself because you are responsible for yourself. 607 00:38:03,081 --> 00:38:05,291 And if you have a problem, you try to go solve it. 608 00:38:06,021 --> 00:38:10,361 But under fiat money, it becomes way more collectivist because you have 609 00:38:10,371 --> 00:38:11,861 the presence of a money printer. 610 00:38:12,141 --> 00:38:18,481 If I am sick now, and you have the ability to print money as a government, then... 611 00:38:19,011 --> 00:38:25,561 You not printing money for my benefit is now like a moral dilemma, right? 612 00:38:25,561 --> 00:38:28,391 Like you, you kind of have to do it because it's kind 613 00:38:28,391 --> 00:38:29,741 of like the Superman dilemma. 614 00:38:29,741 --> 00:38:33,781 If you're Superman, you should be constantly doing stuff because you 615 00:38:33,781 --> 00:38:37,221 have the ability and you can, you can save lives all the time, right? 616 00:38:37,231 --> 00:38:40,611 Just there's always something, somebody in trouble somewhere. 617 00:38:40,681 --> 00:38:44,921 And you should be, and that's sort of the dilemma that every central bank is in. 618 00:38:44,931 --> 00:38:49,861 Every government is in because They have the ability to print money and they 619 00:38:49,901 --> 00:38:51,771 claim that it's more or less free, right? 620 00:38:51,781 --> 00:38:55,151 Like whenever they do bailouts or whatever, it's not coming from taxpayers. 621 00:38:55,151 --> 00:38:57,161 No, they're printing money on your behalf. 622 00:38:57,161 --> 00:39:04,621 So everything, any problem that anyone has now becomes a public thing. 623 00:39:05,471 --> 00:39:11,621 And that means that, uh, you know, the more you can claim a problem, the more 624 00:39:11,631 --> 00:39:13,421 money is going to get thrown towards you. 625 00:39:13,421 --> 00:39:19,281 And this is part of the sort of victimhood mentality or victimhood olympics that's 626 00:39:19,281 --> 00:39:24,411 been going on, uh, pretty much everywhere is that you want to claim some victimhood 627 00:39:24,421 --> 00:39:27,961 status so you get more money because you've been injured in some way, you 628 00:39:27,971 --> 00:39:32,651 have some problem, and the government now has to print money on your behalf. 629 00:39:33,381 --> 00:39:37,331 So all that is to say that there's politics now injected into everything 630 00:39:37,331 --> 00:39:43,106 because any problem anyone has now it can It becomes the purview of 631 00:39:43,116 --> 00:39:44,796 the money printer of the government. 632 00:39:45,176 --> 00:39:48,866 Now, they don't necessarily solve it, but more or less they have to 633 00:39:48,866 --> 00:39:54,136 spend money on it to at least appear like they're not complete jerks. 634 00:39:54,606 --> 00:40:02,936 Um, so when you have this political, uh, thing, uh, you, you now have this, uh, 635 00:40:03,581 --> 00:40:09,091 Uh, desire to get stuff, right, to claim victimhood status, but you're not going to 636 00:40:09,091 --> 00:40:11,191 get it until a majority agrees with you. 637 00:40:11,721 --> 00:40:18,231 And the mechanism by which you get a majority to agree with you is propaganda. 638 00:40:18,261 --> 00:40:23,111 And this is sort of like hacking into the psychology of people and, 639 00:40:23,371 --> 00:40:28,971 and, you know, there's a, there's a whole, you know, set of literature, 640 00:40:29,001 --> 00:40:31,361 uh, on like exactly how it works. 641 00:40:32,066 --> 00:40:34,326 you know, what, what techniques you can use and so on. 642 00:40:34,326 --> 00:40:40,886 But this has become the chosen weapon, uh, of sort of getting 643 00:40:40,886 --> 00:40:42,826 manufacturer consent, if you will. 644 00:40:42,866 --> 00:40:48,866 And it's, it's, uh, it's a technique that, that's been more 645 00:40:48,866 --> 00:40:51,146 or less weaponized, uh, and it's... 646 00:40:51,751 --> 00:40:56,981 It's become, uh, a lot easier to implement largely because of, 647 00:40:57,421 --> 00:41:01,361 you know, 12 years of government schooling where you're not really 648 00:41:01,381 --> 00:41:03,421 practicing a lot of agency and so on. 649 00:41:03,811 --> 00:41:11,401 Um, so you, you, you get, uh, a population that is very, uh, docile and you get 650 00:41:11,551 --> 00:41:18,311 propaganda that is very good at, Not necessarily evoking emotion, but like 651 00:41:18,351 --> 00:41:21,381 getting a certain type of behavior. 652 00:41:21,391 --> 00:41:27,521 There's a book by Jacques Ellul that's very good on this, and it goes into the 653 00:41:27,521 --> 00:41:30,741 purpose of propaganda and how it works. 654 00:41:32,056 --> 00:41:35,316 The, the purpose of propaganda isn't necessarily to get 655 00:41:35,316 --> 00:41:36,496 you to believe something. 656 00:41:37,126 --> 00:41:38,906 It is to get you to do something. 657 00:41:38,996 --> 00:41:43,216 And this is a very key distinction because a lot of people think, 658 00:41:43,226 --> 00:41:46,096 okay, well, you know, like they're obviously lying and so on. 659 00:41:47,216 --> 00:41:51,206 Most of good propaganda is almost always true. 660 00:41:51,896 --> 00:41:56,516 The, the way that you use propaganda is to say true things. 661 00:41:56,931 --> 00:42:02,361 Just omit the very, you know, omit other things that are also true 662 00:42:02,741 --> 00:42:06,661 to make it seem like a particular way and ultimately get you to act. 663 00:42:06,681 --> 00:42:11,361 So, for example, during the pandemic, we had the mask mandates. 664 00:42:12,371 --> 00:42:13,431 Everyone had to wear a mask. 665 00:42:14,031 --> 00:42:17,351 Now, it didn't matter what you believed about the mask. 666 00:42:17,856 --> 00:42:18,256 Right? 667 00:42:18,876 --> 00:42:19,196 Right? 668 00:42:19,216 --> 00:42:23,066 If you, if you believed that they were effective, you still wore the mask. 669 00:42:23,276 --> 00:42:26,816 Uh, you obviously wore the mask, but if you didn't believe that they were 670 00:42:26,816 --> 00:42:28,516 effective, you still wore the mask. 671 00:42:29,321 --> 00:42:29,801 Why? 672 00:42:29,801 --> 00:42:34,811 Because that the, the key thing to propaganda is to get you to 673 00:42:34,811 --> 00:42:39,521 comply, to do something rather than to believe something. 674 00:42:39,851 --> 00:42:44,951 And, and in effect, um, it, it's, it's sort of reversing the causality of how. 675 00:42:45,776 --> 00:42:51,296 Most people think they, they act, which is that they think that they come up with, 676 00:42:51,336 --> 00:42:56,106 uh, proper actions by thinking through the rational options and picking the most 677 00:42:56,106 --> 00:42:58,986 rational one, and then doing that action. 678 00:42:59,286 --> 00:43:00,946 Actually, it works the other way around. 679 00:43:01,606 --> 00:43:06,156 The action that you do is rationalized by your brain to 680 00:43:06,156 --> 00:43:08,196 justify whatever it is that you did. 681 00:43:08,246 --> 00:43:14,461 So, once you get people to act a certain way, Then the brain comes 682 00:43:14,651 --> 00:43:18,061 along later, uh, which is exactly kind of what happened, right? 683 00:43:18,061 --> 00:43:23,711 It's, it's okay, like, I am doing all of this stuff and that's now a 684 00:43:23,711 --> 00:43:27,601 part of my identity and I'm going to continue in that direction. 685 00:43:27,601 --> 00:43:32,371 And that, that's, I think, what, uh, the connection between fiat money and 686 00:43:32,381 --> 00:43:37,151 what you would call, I guess, mass psychosis or mass belief or whatever. 687 00:43:37,161 --> 00:43:37,621 It's. 688 00:43:38,116 --> 00:43:44,586 It's ultimately political, uh, as a, uh, as a way to, um, sort 689 00:43:44,586 --> 00:43:48,996 of manufacture consent for, you know, particular policy and so on. 690 00:43:50,039 --> 00:43:56,219 that sounds almost even counter to praxeology, like, uh, uh, I mean, I know 691 00:43:56,219 --> 00:43:59,709 that that's how consciousness works, and that's how the brain works, that 692 00:43:59,709 --> 00:44:03,389 we, we, we tell ourselves stories and hindsight and stuff, that that is a 693 00:44:03,389 --> 00:44:06,089 part of the mechanics of, of a brain. 694 00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:09,279 Uh, but still, uh, I believe. 695 00:44:09,944 --> 00:44:14,054 Praxeology to be very true that we, we, we envision something in the 696 00:44:14,054 --> 00:44:19,294 future and we act upon it because we can envision, uh, you know, a future 697 00:44:19,294 --> 00:44:21,514 without our action and with our action. 698 00:44:21,514 --> 00:44:26,794 And we choose between a hierarchy of needs, uh, what to do next. 699 00:44:27,454 --> 00:44:33,644 So, so like, is, uh, is propaganda like counter to the, is it like 700 00:44:33,811 --> 00:44:37,411 no, I, I think it's fully consistent with praxeology in the sense 701 00:44:37,411 --> 00:44:41,651 that there's now another need and it's a political one, right? 702 00:44:41,711 --> 00:44:46,631 Um, so what, what fiat money does is it puts the political 703 00:44:46,641 --> 00:44:48,051 above almost everything else. 704 00:44:48,566 --> 00:44:54,416 So, political, um, or I guess, I guess you could call it like a status seeking 705 00:44:54,416 --> 00:44:58,648 game, or making sure that you're not at the bottom of the status ladder, so 706 00:44:58,688 --> 00:45:05,308 it's, if you get in a zero sum game, like being at the bottom really, really 707 00:45:05,348 --> 00:45:10,548 sucks, right, and, and it's a, it's a zero sum game, so you're, if, if you 708 00:45:10,568 --> 00:45:14,866 get down to the bottom, like, You have very little hope of going back up, 709 00:45:15,155 --> 00:45:16,995 but it's, it's also a zero sum game. 710 00:45:16,995 --> 00:45:20,775 So like, you know, by you being down there, there are other people 711 00:45:20,785 --> 00:45:22,405 that are able to advance and so on. 712 00:45:22,835 --> 00:45:25,225 Uh, and politics is very much a zero sum game. 713 00:45:25,225 --> 00:45:28,405 So to keep up, you need to... 714 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:33,330 You had this need to play the status game because so much of 715 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,580 the fiat economy is political. 716 00:45:36,050 --> 00:45:40,850 And if you don't do these things, then you're going to sink to the bottom. 717 00:45:40,870 --> 00:45:45,530 So instead of in a sound money economy where you can add goods or 718 00:45:45,530 --> 00:45:49,510 services without regard to status, like, you're still going to buy a 719 00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:53,510 good or service if it's good, whether it's from a low class person or not. 720 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,230 Uh, with political opinions and such, tho those you have to 721 00:45:58,230 --> 00:46:02,280 take from the top because if you don't, then your status goes down. 722 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:03,780 So you there, there's. 723 00:46:04,390 --> 00:46:12,020 A clear need for virtue signaling as almost like a market good because of this 724 00:46:12,050 --> 00:46:17,810 presence of a money printer that has the ability to control a lot of your life. 725 00:46:17,860 --> 00:46:23,600 Um, and so you, for a person in a fiat money system, they, 726 00:46:23,630 --> 00:46:25,790 of course, envision a future. 727 00:46:26,170 --> 00:46:30,010 where they're virtue signaling versus not virtue signaling. 728 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,910 And the consequences are such that because it's political, you suffer 729 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:41,190 for not virtue signaling, which might include stuff like getting fired 730 00:46:41,210 --> 00:46:47,200 from your job or, you know, being ostracized by your neighbors and so on. 731 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:53,544 So, it brings, it just brings in another whole set of considerations. 732 00:46:54,054 --> 00:46:59,964 Uh, which I don't think are necessarily legitimate or valuable and is actually 733 00:46:59,984 --> 00:47:03,544 civilization destroying, but that, that's essentially what's happening. 734 00:47:04,244 --> 00:47:08,264 The show is also sponsored by Orange Pill App, the Bitcoin only social network where 735 00:47:08,264 --> 00:47:09,924 you can stack friends who stack sats. 736 00:47:10,524 --> 00:47:13,384 You can connect with your favorite Bitcoiners on the app, make local 737 00:47:13,384 --> 00:47:16,434 connections, and even connect with Bitcoiners around the world. 738 00:47:16,984 --> 00:47:20,484 You can see what's going on in your area and organize and attend local events. 739 00:47:20,925 --> 00:47:23,675 I've been to multiple events organized on Orange Pill App and they brought 740 00:47:23,675 --> 00:47:25,715 Bitcoiners together from all over. 741 00:47:26,194 --> 00:47:29,404 And now, with group chat, it's easier than ever to stay in touch 742 00:47:29,404 --> 00:47:30,724 with all your Bitcoin friends. 743 00:47:31,133 --> 00:47:33,323 The best part is you know it's high signal. 744 00:47:33,413 --> 00:47:36,403 There's no spam on OrangePillApp because everyone pays to be there. 745 00:47:36,613 --> 00:47:39,948 So download OrangePillApp on Apple or Android and start building 746 00:47:39,968 --> 00:47:41,268 your local network of Bitcoiners. 747 00:47:42,086 --> 00:47:43,686 Next up, The Bitcoin Way. 748 00:47:44,216 --> 00:47:47,526 Their mission is to onboard, educate, and remove barriers to 749 00:47:47,526 --> 00:47:49,136 taking self custody of your bitcoin. 750 00:47:49,686 --> 00:47:53,996 They cover everything from cold wallets to nodes, no KYC bitcoin purchases, 751 00:47:54,046 --> 00:47:56,476 inheritance planning, payments, and more. 752 00:47:57,006 --> 00:47:59,816 Whether you're new to bitcoin or you're an experienced bitcoiner looking to 753 00:47:59,826 --> 00:48:03,696 expand your freedom footprint, Or you know someone who this sounds perfect for? 754 00:48:04,056 --> 00:48:05,976 The Bitcoin Way has something for you. 755 00:48:06,616 --> 00:48:10,136 They have a skilled team, well versed in the Bitcoin space, and their goal is to 756 00:48:10,136 --> 00:48:14,026 make all the complexities of Bitcoin as straightforward as possible for everyone. 757 00:48:14,586 --> 00:48:17,086 And the best part is you can get started with a free 30 758 00:48:17,086 --> 00:48:18,266 minute call with their team. 759 00:48:18,786 --> 00:48:20,326 Go to thebitcoinway. 760 00:48:20,346 --> 00:48:22,556 com slash contact for more info. 761 00:48:23,157 --> 00:48:25,057 Our newest sponsor is Geyser. 762 00:48:25,387 --> 00:48:28,277 They are the portal to the creator economy on Bitcoin. 763 00:48:28,977 --> 00:48:32,697 On Geyser, creators can monetize their work through their communities 764 00:48:32,727 --> 00:48:34,347 in a social and engaging way. 765 00:48:34,727 --> 00:48:37,517 And supporters can send sats to their favorite projects. 766 00:48:37,964 --> 00:48:41,264 Geyser has also recently integrated with Zapps and Podcasting 2. 767 00:48:41,264 --> 00:48:41,724 0. 768 00:48:42,074 --> 00:48:45,624 So every Zapp sent to a Geyser address shows up on the Geyser page. 769 00:48:46,384 --> 00:48:47,844 We have a Geyser fund ourselves. 770 00:48:47,854 --> 00:48:50,014 It's the best way to support our show directly with Bitcoin. 771 00:48:51,024 --> 00:48:54,884 So whether you're a creator or a supporter, check out geyser at geyser. 772 00:48:54,884 --> 00:48:55,784 fund today. 773 00:48:56,363 --> 00:49:01,483 is virtue signaling a direct, uh, result of money printing in the end then? 774 00:49:01,483 --> 00:49:07,440 Because it's, money printing leads to politicization and, uh, that in turn 775 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,060 leads to propaganda and that leads to virtue signaling and it leads to 776 00:49:11,060 --> 00:49:14,590 this race to be, you don't have to be faster than the bear that's chasing 777 00:49:14,590 --> 00:49:18,200 you, you just have to be faster than like the, the, the next sucker. 778 00:49:18,428 --> 00:49:22,018 yeah, I, I, I would say it's, uh, it's even simpler than that. 779 00:49:22,038 --> 00:49:25,798 Like, uh, essentially everyone in some way works for the money printer. 780 00:49:26,098 --> 00:49:27,738 If you don't have the right... 781 00:49:28,353 --> 00:49:32,123 opinions, then you're going to get cut off by the money printer, right? 782 00:49:32,133 --> 00:49:35,223 Like, you're not going to get paid by the money printer in some way. 783 00:49:35,273 --> 00:49:42,763 Uh, and this might be, you know, uh, a couple of degrees off from, or, uh, 784 00:49:43,063 --> 00:49:45,963 it might be like a second or third order effect or something like that. 785 00:49:45,963 --> 00:49:51,823 But that political angle is an important part of every job now. 786 00:49:51,843 --> 00:49:53,783 If you don't have the right politics. 787 00:49:54,248 --> 00:49:59,038 Well, let, let's, let's just trace it like, say you work for a big company and 788 00:49:59,038 --> 00:50:05,958 you're, you have an anti-vaccine, um, you know, thought or, uh, and you, you're, 789 00:50:05,963 --> 00:50:07,398 you're trying to make this decision. 790 00:50:07,398 --> 00:50:08,748 Do I get the vaccine or not? 791 00:50:08,748 --> 00:50:14,453 Well, If you don't get the vaccine, uh, maybe the company can fire you. 792 00:50:14,513 --> 00:50:16,983 Uh, and why is the company doing that? 793 00:50:16,983 --> 00:50:22,073 Because they are getting significant subsidies from the government, whether 794 00:50:22,083 --> 00:50:24,823 in regulation or direct funding. 795 00:50:25,233 --> 00:50:27,683 Uh, you know, certainly the airlines did that, right? 796 00:50:27,683 --> 00:50:31,023 They, they got huge bailouts because they... 797 00:50:31,453 --> 00:50:33,743 Um, you know, shut down during COVID. 798 00:50:33,763 --> 00:50:37,493 So they got these bailouts from the government and the government was pretty 799 00:50:37,493 --> 00:50:39,273 much like, Hey, we have these vaccines. 800 00:50:39,343 --> 00:50:41,463 You're going to need to make everybody take them. 801 00:50:41,873 --> 00:50:44,213 And they enforced it enthusiastically. 802 00:50:44,223 --> 00:50:44,513 Why? 803 00:50:44,543 --> 00:50:47,043 Because if, had they not done that. 804 00:50:47,448 --> 00:50:49,808 Then the next time they need a bailout, they're not getting it. 805 00:50:50,238 --> 00:50:55,228 So it all comes down from the money printer in some way, shape, 806 00:50:55,228 --> 00:50:58,658 or form to the actual people that have to make the decision. 807 00:50:59,478 --> 00:51:02,118 Like with vaccines, maybe that's like very overt. 808 00:51:02,663 --> 00:51:07,123 It comes down to something even more subtle like, uh, you know, you know, 809 00:51:07,123 --> 00:51:12,203 um, supporting Black Lives Matter, for example, like, uh, oh, we, we are going 810 00:51:12,223 --> 00:51:18,163 to support this thing because that is, uh, you know, something that is part of 811 00:51:18,163 --> 00:51:24,163 the ESG thing, well, um, or DEI thing, and well, who, who's enforcing that? 812 00:51:24,213 --> 00:51:27,023 Who, who's, who's demanding that from the company? 813 00:51:27,043 --> 00:51:30,753 Well, the, it's the vanguards and black rocks of the world. 814 00:51:31,123 --> 00:51:32,813 And where, where are they getting their money? 815 00:51:32,813 --> 00:51:35,723 Well, they, they print it into existence because they, they are, 816 00:51:35,733 --> 00:51:40,643 they're essentially banks and they, they have, uh, they have all the money. 817 00:51:40,663 --> 00:51:44,503 So, you know, fiat money is creating all of it. 818 00:51:44,553 --> 00:51:48,164 And if you don't do these things, it's, it's, it's become a part of 819 00:51:48,164 --> 00:51:50,573 your job description essentially because of the money printer. 820 00:51:50,943 --> 00:51:52,723 And it's, it's a direct consequence. 821 00:51:53,213 --> 00:51:56,923 Uh, and if you don't virtue signal, I mean, maybe you get fired. 822 00:51:56,923 --> 00:51:57,063 That's. 823 00:51:57,408 --> 00:52:00,588 Probably the most drastic, but more likely it's you're not going 824 00:52:00,588 --> 00:52:02,178 to get considered for promotions. 825 00:52:02,178 --> 00:52:05,928 You might, you're, you're probably not going to get invited to the projects 826 00:52:05,958 --> 00:52:12,458 that are, you know, going to get you promoted or be able to allow you to 827 00:52:12,568 --> 00:52:14,479 prove yourself to your superiors. 828 00:52:14,828 --> 00:52:18,628 Um, maybe the, you know, next company hiring you is. 829 00:52:19,198 --> 00:52:22,958 Uh, is going to hear about it from somebody and you know, you get marked as 830 00:52:22,958 --> 00:52:24,498 a troublemaker or something like that. 831 00:52:24,788 --> 00:52:29,838 There are all sorts of consequences that everyone has to sort of like take 832 00:52:29,838 --> 00:52:34,878 into account when they're, when they're making these like, uh, uh, decisions, 833 00:52:34,938 --> 00:52:38,218 uh, it's very much praxeological. 834 00:52:38,648 --> 00:52:44,198 It's just, there's this enormous, enormous thing called fiat money 835 00:52:44,198 --> 00:52:48,578 that skews all of these incentives so that they're actually destructive to 836 00:52:48,578 --> 00:52:50,148 civilization rather than building it up. 837 00:52:51,863 --> 00:52:53,913 Yeah, beautifully put. 838 00:52:53,973 --> 00:52:58,623 Uh, I, I mean, this is why I love the Bitcoin space so much. 839 00:52:58,623 --> 00:53:02,413 Because when you hang out with Bitcoiners, you get the literal opposite. 840 00:53:02,443 --> 00:53:05,343 You get people's honest and thoughtful opinion. 841 00:53:05,563 --> 00:53:09,623 You know, you don't, you almost always disagree with everyone, 842 00:53:09,623 --> 00:53:11,203 but that's what Bitcoin is. 843 00:53:11,203 --> 00:53:13,303 It's people that agree to disagree. 844 00:53:13,313 --> 00:53:14,143 It's beautiful. 845 00:53:14,153 --> 00:53:15,103 That's all we do. 846 00:53:15,103 --> 00:53:19,643 It's agreeing to disagree and getting closer to some type of truth by 847 00:53:19,643 --> 00:53:21,418 having Thoughtful conversations. 848 00:53:21,418 --> 00:53:25,978 You know, you can always learn something from a Bitcoiner because they've 849 00:53:26,028 --> 00:53:30,488 thought things through and it's so refreshing when you compare it to, 850 00:53:30,538 --> 00:53:36,248 to the fiat, you know, chasing all sorts of fictitious bullshit goals. 851 00:53:36,662 --> 00:53:37,282 Yeah, indeed. 852 00:53:37,282 --> 00:53:41,402 And it's, it's kind of sad because if you're, if you're told an 853 00:53:41,402 --> 00:53:45,272 opinion, uh, then you obviously haven't thought too much about it. 854 00:53:45,322 --> 00:53:50,622 Uh, maybe you rationalize it later and you can kind of see it when you argue 855 00:53:50,622 --> 00:53:55,667 with them because they, They don't know what the actual rationale is, and 856 00:53:55,667 --> 00:53:57,707 they just sort of make crap up, right? 857 00:53:58,207 --> 00:54:00,027 Oh yeah, I'm doing this because of this. 858 00:54:00,057 --> 00:54:01,397 It's like, that doesn't make any sense. 859 00:54:01,397 --> 00:54:03,557 It's like, well, I'm going to do it anyway. 860 00:54:04,277 --> 00:54:09,877 It kind of does take away a lot of agency in many ways. 861 00:54:11,447 --> 00:54:15,847 And I can kind of understand it because it's very comforting, because if you, 862 00:54:15,887 --> 00:54:20,887 if you just follow the rules, right, if you just comply, then you don't have to 863 00:54:20,917 --> 00:54:25,537 think for yourself and you don't have to be responsible for your own decisions, 864 00:54:26,037 --> 00:54:27,877 uh, which I think makes us less human. 865 00:54:27,877 --> 00:54:34,377 But for a lot of people, it's, well, like I, if I do everything correctly 866 00:54:34,417 --> 00:54:36,967 and, uh, you know, I get screwed, then. 867 00:54:37,607 --> 00:54:41,247 You know, at least I can complain or something, uh, whereas if you make the 868 00:54:41,247 --> 00:54:47,067 decision and it's of your own volition and you screw up, then you don't, you 869 00:54:47,067 --> 00:54:48,977 have no one to blame for, but yourself. 870 00:54:49,017 --> 00:54:54,817 Uh, they, they like the option of having, being able to blame society or the powers 871 00:54:54,817 --> 00:54:58,707 that be or something if they get screwed over as long as they do the right thing. 872 00:54:59,207 --> 00:55:03,737 Um, it, it, it is kind of comforting, but, um, but yeah, 873 00:55:03,737 --> 00:55:05,527 it, it leads to sort of like a. 874 00:55:05,527 --> 00:55:05,807 Yeah. 875 00:55:06,002 --> 00:55:11,992 Very monothink, like, uh, very cultish behavior, almost, from, uh, 876 00:55:12,012 --> 00:55:14,172 from the people that are in fiat. 877 00:55:14,172 --> 00:55:20,112 And it's, it's kind of getting scary because people are saying just... 878 00:55:21,427 --> 00:55:26,627 Outright ridiculous things as if they're, like, legitimate, like, we're, you 879 00:55:26,627 --> 00:55:29,867 know, children should be property of the state and stuff like that, which 880 00:55:30,367 --> 00:55:32,477 I think is just absolutely ridiculous. 881 00:55:32,487 --> 00:55:39,677 But I will say one thing, Knut, and I would not be doing myself a good service 882 00:55:39,677 --> 00:55:46,037 if I did not at least say something that I think you would disagree with. 883 00:55:46,727 --> 00:55:52,177 And, uh, and so I, I, I, I've been, I've been playing around 884 00:55:52,177 --> 00:55:54,237 with this thought in my mind. 885 00:55:54,707 --> 00:55:56,997 I think fiat money is an atheist money. 886 00:56:00,232 --> 00:56:01,182 Okay, okay. 887 00:56:02,062 --> 00:56:05,482 That whole debate, are we really going down that part of the rabbit hole? 888 00:56:05,777 --> 00:56:07,817 Well, so, so, I mean, hear me out, right? 889 00:56:07,827 --> 00:56:08,037 Like, 890 00:56:08,172 --> 00:56:08,992 Yeah, yeah, okay. 891 00:56:10,277 --> 00:56:16,757 Alright, so, so, my, my, my thought on that is, is basically that, uh, the 892 00:56:16,767 --> 00:56:22,962 general pattern with, with atheism is that Once you remove god from the equation, 893 00:56:23,952 --> 00:56:27,712 Wait a minute, I'd like your definition of atheism first, because 894 00:56:27,712 --> 00:56:29,542 I think yours might differ from mine. 895 00:56:30,282 --> 00:56:33,942 oh, what, what, oh, what, I, I, I think it's somebody that doesn't 896 00:56:33,942 --> 00:56:35,432 believe god exists, right, like, 897 00:56:36,207 --> 00:56:40,257 Yeah, it's not a belief in that there's no God, and that's a 898 00:56:40,267 --> 00:56:42,167 big, important distinction. 899 00:56:42,167 --> 00:56:45,877 It's just that you don't buy the theory that there is one. 900 00:56:46,807 --> 00:56:48,437 And there's a, there's a difference there. 901 00:56:49,057 --> 00:56:51,067 no, no, no, that would be agnosticism. 902 00:56:51,077 --> 00:56:52,627 You don't know is 903 00:56:52,677 --> 00:56:53,277 No, agnosticism 904 00:56:53,517 --> 00:56:53,637 No, 905 00:56:54,527 --> 00:56:56,947 is when you say that there's a 50 50 percentage. 906 00:56:56,967 --> 00:56:59,737 An atheist would say, like, there's a 99 percent. 907 00:56:59,944 --> 00:57:05,124 no, traditional agnosticism is you cannot know whether or not there is a god. 908 00:57:05,624 --> 00:57:09,954 Okay, this is not how it's defined in Richard Dawkins book 909 00:57:09,954 --> 00:57:11,124 on the subject, for instance. 910 00:57:11,264 --> 00:57:12,724 Yeah, because he's an idiot. 911 00:57:12,734 --> 00:57:16,554 I mean, he and Sam Harris and all the new atheists are idiots. 912 00:57:16,874 --> 00:57:21,344 They don't study any ancient literature or, like, the traditional arguments 913 00:57:21,344 --> 00:57:24,764 for any of that, so they make up definitions however they like, and 914 00:57:24,764 --> 00:57:27,534 they burn down straw men all day 915 00:57:27,629 --> 00:57:29,739 Well, he also coined the word meme. 916 00:57:30,149 --> 00:57:32,359 So you're, let's go with your definition. 917 00:57:32,379 --> 00:57:36,489 You don't buy the other arguments for, uh, God. 918 00:57:36,489 --> 00:57:38,459 Is that so God might exist? 919 00:57:38,899 --> 00:57:42,579 I don't buy the proposition of an omnipotent being of any sort. 920 00:57:42,909 --> 00:57:46,779 Because I think, and it has to do with agency, because I think such a being 921 00:57:46,779 --> 00:57:48,799 wouldn't be compelled to act ever. 922 00:57:49,149 --> 00:57:52,759 If you're immortal and indestructible, you would never need to act at all. 923 00:57:53,409 --> 00:57:55,719 Especially if you're omnipotent on top of that. 924 00:57:56,069 --> 00:58:00,699 So I don't think an omnipotent, any type of creator... 925 00:58:01,085 --> 00:58:02,405 Whatever need to act. 926 00:58:02,535 --> 00:58:07,955 So therefore, I don't believe that something created what we are. 927 00:58:08,465 --> 00:58:09,575 Okay, but go on. 928 00:58:09,605 --> 00:58:11,545 I'm eager to hear your thoughts. 929 00:58:11,635 --> 00:58:12,655 So let's go back. 930 00:58:12,655 --> 00:58:20,325 So I call it an atheist money because it, it sort of denies, uh, uh, well, 931 00:58:20,335 --> 00:58:23,905 the general pattern with atheism is that once you remove God from the equation, 932 00:58:23,905 --> 00:58:27,395 you deny sort of any other order, right? 933 00:58:27,455 --> 00:58:33,119 Any other, Uh, sort of like, uh, uh, specifically traditional. 934 00:58:33,529 --> 00:58:38,349 Um, uh, rules or laws or something like that. 935 00:58:38,349 --> 00:58:43,509 So generally you become your own master and you, you decide your own rules. 936 00:58:44,169 --> 00:58:48,259 And, uh, that, that was certainly the case with, um, you know, communism, 937 00:58:48,259 --> 00:58:51,909 for example, they, they decided, all right, we're, we're going to make up 938 00:58:51,909 --> 00:58:55,779 our own rules because there's no God, there, there is no other sort of like. 939 00:58:56,624 --> 00:59:02,434 order that you need to submit yourself to, uh, or that, uh, or any other, 940 00:59:02,554 --> 00:59:08,184 uh, it's sort of like a suspending of, uh, of reality or like denying, um, 941 00:59:08,494 --> 00:59:12,064 certain other realities that you don't believe in or, or, or whatever it is. 942 00:59:12,514 --> 00:59:18,664 Um, so the way I see fiat money is denying in some way natural 943 00:59:18,664 --> 00:59:20,424 law and, and natural law. 944 00:59:20,454 --> 00:59:23,564 I mean, there, there are sort of like formulations of 945 00:59:23,574 --> 00:59:25,334 natural law that come from. 946 00:59:25,964 --> 00:59:31,634 Sort of like, um, you know, uh, an atheistic perspective, which requires, 947 00:59:31,634 --> 00:59:35,564 okay, well, obviously we're having this conversation, therefore you must have a 948 00:59:35,564 --> 00:59:41,274 will, and therefore, you know, you're, you're, um, you're, you're admitting the 949 00:59:41,274 --> 00:59:43,004 agency of the other person, and so on. 950 00:59:43,014 --> 00:59:45,724 I, I, I always found those sort of like sneaky and... 951 00:59:46,174 --> 00:59:51,854 Sort of coming, coming to this from the back door, uh, because it doesn't 952 00:59:51,864 --> 00:59:56,294 actually answer any of the questions about whether or not this exists 953 00:59:56,294 --> 00:59:58,624 and why it exists or how it exists. 954 00:59:58,634 --> 01:00:03,184 It's just, it exists and therefore we need to Uh, we, we need to 955 01:00:03,244 --> 01:00:04,594 obey it or something like that. 956 01:00:04,984 --> 01:00:14,424 Um, but all that is to say that fiat money is, uh, is a denial of, uh, the fund. 957 01:00:14,484 --> 01:00:17,364 It's creating its own rules about Right. 958 01:00:17,364 --> 01:00:23,994 It's, it's creating its own, uh, it's man trying to, Um, deny the property rights 959 01:00:24,014 --> 01:00:29,404 of other people by essentially saying we're making up the rules and we can, 960 01:00:30,094 --> 01:00:35,374 we can, uh, sort of sneakily through the back door, through inflation, through 961 01:00:35,664 --> 01:00:41,864 stealth taxation, steal from others because that, that is, that is okay in 962 01:00:41,864 --> 01:00:48,364 the light of, in, in the absence of this natural law of this Other real order. 963 01:00:48,744 --> 01:00:56,234 Um, and, uh, whereas sound money, uh, is based on this idea of natural law, 964 01:00:56,234 --> 01:01:01,744 and I, I, I really do believe that having, uh, natural law for natural 965 01:01:01,744 --> 01:01:07,774 law, you, you need for any morality really, uh, other than like a nietzche 966 01:01:07,804 --> 01:01:09,784 one, which is very sociopathic. 967 01:01:10,554 --> 01:01:11,664 You need a creator. 968 01:01:11,664 --> 01:01:14,274 You need, you need some, you, you need, you need some order. 969 01:01:14,274 --> 01:01:16,994 Like 'cause how, how do you answer? 970 01:01:17,474 --> 01:01:21,324 Why, why should you believe, like, how do you go from is to ought? 971 01:01:21,334 --> 01:01:26,044 How, why should you have, uh, you know, respect other people's property rights? 972 01:01:26,174 --> 01:01:30,484 And, and so that, that's my argument for why I think fiat 973 01:01:30,484 --> 01:01:32,454 money is an atheist money. 974 01:01:32,494 --> 01:01:35,024 So I, I just wanted to throw that out there. 975 01:01:35,584 --> 01:01:37,904 So I, I, I don't know. 976 01:01:37,904 --> 01:01:38,554 What do you think? 977 01:01:39,754 --> 01:01:41,184 Yeah, I'll give you a reply. 978 01:01:41,184 --> 01:01:43,794 It's going to be quite long, but I'll do my best. 979 01:01:44,234 --> 01:01:50,214 So, to shorten it down, I would say that I don't believe you need 980 01:01:50,234 --> 01:01:54,264 a creator to accept natural law. 981 01:01:55,064 --> 01:02:00,484 On the contrary, I say, I think that Even Hoppe's argumentation ethics is 982 01:02:00,484 --> 01:02:05,214 a good basis for morality, since you can prove that, you know, you can, 983 01:02:05,234 --> 01:02:10,784 you can literally prove from deductive reasoning that, uh, forceful interactions 984 01:02:10,814 --> 01:02:15,994 are probably, uh, not beneficial to you, but, but detrimental to you. 985 01:02:16,334 --> 01:02:20,014 So, so you can build your entire morality around, around 986 01:02:20,014 --> 01:02:21,304 that framework, if you will. 987 01:02:21,654 --> 01:02:22,424 Furthermore... 988 01:02:22,639 --> 01:02:23,629 I view state, 989 01:02:23,664 --> 01:02:25,574 like a utilitarian morality. 990 01:02:26,209 --> 01:02:28,909 yes, very utilitarian, yes, I would 991 01:02:29,094 --> 01:02:31,374 Okay, but, but utility is subjective, right? 992 01:02:31,484 --> 01:02:36,584 So, how do you, how do you, how do you get, like, you don't have a meter here. 993 01:02:36,594 --> 01:02:39,934 You, how do you determine whether something is beneficial to you or 994 01:02:39,934 --> 01:02:44,014 not if you don't have, um, if you don't have an objective standard? 995 01:02:44,539 --> 01:02:48,129 Well, I think that's ingrained in all of us, like, we have 996 01:02:48,129 --> 01:02:49,499 a survival instinct, right? 997 01:02:49,499 --> 01:02:54,119 So we don't want violence to happen to us and when we realize that 998 01:02:54,169 --> 01:02:57,799 if we respect property rights, there's a higher likelihood that 999 01:02:57,849 --> 01:02:58,699 other people will respect ours. 1000 01:03:00,449 --> 01:03:05,809 Uh, uh, then you can just deductively reason yourself to, I have a higher 1001 01:03:06,339 --> 01:03:10,199 survival probability and so does my family if we're just nice to one another 1002 01:03:10,199 --> 01:03:11,979 and do things consensually instead 1003 01:03:12,054 --> 01:03:15,934 I mean, your, your, your contention then is that existence is beneficial 1004 01:03:15,934 --> 01:03:18,384 or good or, uh, in some way, 1005 01:03:19,989 --> 01:03:23,559 Well, uh, we don't know the, what the alternative is. 1006 01:03:23,759 --> 01:03:27,969 So in a sense, nobody knows, uh, what nothingness feels like. 1007 01:03:27,969 --> 01:03:31,319 It probably feels like whatever happened before your birth, 1008 01:03:31,719 --> 01:03:33,959 but, but, but still there's. 1009 01:03:34,594 --> 01:03:39,244 The, I think that the finiteness of a human lifetime is what gives it value. 1010 01:03:39,544 --> 01:03:41,214 It's because it's like Bitcoin. 1011 01:03:41,234 --> 01:03:45,254 That's why Bitcoin maps on so perfectly to the scarcity of a human life. 1012 01:03:45,554 --> 01:03:49,954 So I view the, the, the thought of an afterlife as a sort of celestial money 1013 01:03:49,954 --> 01:03:55,004 printer, if you will, because it's the promise of something more of a scarce 1014 01:03:55,044 --> 01:03:56,884 resource that isn't really there. 1015 01:03:56,969 --> 01:04:00,349 you're attributing value to a human life, period. 1016 01:04:01,114 --> 01:04:03,034 No, I'm saying that individuals do. 1017 01:04:03,419 --> 01:04:06,599 so, like, you, you need some justification. 1018 01:04:07,559 --> 01:04:09,419 Why he human life is valuable. 1019 01:04:09,419 --> 01:04:09,629 No. 1020 01:04:09,844 --> 01:04:13,144 observation in the world is that people value their lives. 1021 01:04:14,129 --> 01:04:14,459 Okay. 1022 01:04:14,459 --> 01:04:15,509 That that is true. 1023 01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:17,609 People do subjectively value their lives. 1024 01:04:17,609 --> 01:04:17,879 Yes. 1025 01:04:18,084 --> 01:04:18,724 yeah, yeah. 1026 01:04:18,964 --> 01:04:24,774 And I think that if you, if you just observe that you value your life 1027 01:04:24,774 --> 01:04:28,434 and that other people's value their lives too, then you can deductively 1028 01:04:28,904 --> 01:04:31,874 reason yourself to a moral standard. 1029 01:04:32,314 --> 01:04:35,154 Some people may need a, uh, guidelines. 1030 01:04:35,459 --> 01:04:38,339 the, these are all subjective valuations. 1031 01:04:38,639 --> 01:04:42,979 How does that make, you know, survival of everybody? 1032 01:04:42,979 --> 01:04:44,719 A, an objective value? 1033 01:04:45,259 --> 01:04:46,639 But so is belief in God. 1034 01:04:46,679 --> 01:04:48,539 That's also a subjective thought. 1035 01:04:48,969 --> 01:04:53,239 Like, it's you think that, I don't, and well, that's 1036 01:04:53,569 --> 01:04:58,909 Well, no, no, no, but, but I, I, I'm, I'm contending, I I'm not talking about mine. 1037 01:04:58,969 --> 01:05:03,629 I'm talking about yours, which is, You believe that human life has value. 1038 01:05:03,639 --> 01:05:05,879 Where does, where does that belief come from? 1039 01:05:05,879 --> 01:05:07,899 And you're, you're saying it can be derived, 1040 01:05:08,529 --> 01:05:10,099 Why do you believe it? 1041 01:05:10,229 --> 01:05:12,569 admitted that it's a subjective task. 1042 01:05:12,569 --> 01:05:15,949 I mean, they're, they're suicidal people, for example, that think 1043 01:05:15,949 --> 01:05:17,299 their life is worth nothing. 1044 01:05:17,329 --> 01:05:20,989 So like, it's, uh, it's universal. 1045 01:05:21,009 --> 01:05:24,199 So how do you, how do you come up with, okay, a lot of 1046 01:05:24,209 --> 01:05:25,679 people do value their lives. 1047 01:05:25,749 --> 01:05:28,669 Therefore, time is objectively valuable. 1048 01:05:29,150 --> 01:05:34,950 I think, since valuations are subjective, the only thing that, if you were 1049 01:05:34,970 --> 01:05:38,850 immortal and indestructible, you wouldn't ever be compelled to act, because you 1050 01:05:38,850 --> 01:05:41,040 could postpone every act indefinitely. 1051 01:05:41,580 --> 01:05:42,150 I mean, if 1052 01:05:42,150 --> 01:05:45,270 Well, I mean, we're not talking about omnipotent beings, we're 1053 01:05:45,270 --> 01:05:47,200 talking about your particular belief. 1054 01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:48,530 You don't believe in God, 1055 01:05:48,550 --> 01:05:49,050 Yeah, yeah. 1056 01:05:49,090 --> 01:05:50,130 I'm talking about me. 1057 01:05:50,220 --> 01:05:53,680 If I, if I was immortal and indestructible, I wouldn't act 1058 01:05:53,980 --> 01:05:58,710 because a second or a minute or a day wouldn't be valuable to me. 1059 01:05:58,980 --> 01:06:01,940 There would be no distinction between the value of a, of a, 1060 01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:04,920 of a day and a 10, 000 years, 1061 01:06:05,010 --> 01:06:07,220 I mean, what does that have to do with you now? 1062 01:06:07,220 --> 01:06:10,310 That's, that's a hypothetical on, on, you're not omnipotent 1063 01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:12,500 and you're not immortal. 1064 01:06:12,500 --> 01:06:15,870 So, why, why does that even enter your, your 1065 01:06:16,380 --> 01:06:20,710 that doesn't require omnipotence even it's just immortal and indestructible. 1066 01:06:20,740 --> 01:06:23,360 So, so the, the point is that the scarcity 1067 01:06:23,370 --> 01:06:24,610 you're not either of those. 1068 01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:26,040 Why are you bringing that up? 1069 01:06:26,050 --> 01:06:29,610 I'm asking about why you value time. 1070 01:06:29,650 --> 01:06:30,700 can I answer Jimmy? 1071 01:06:30,700 --> 01:06:30,860 I'm, 1072 01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:35,158 I'm saying that the finiteness of my life is what, what makes me think 1073 01:06:35,158 --> 01:06:39,448 it's valuable, just as the finiteness of Bitcoin is what makes me think 1074 01:06:39,448 --> 01:06:43,448 that it has value to others, like, uh, there's a connection there. 1075 01:06:43,808 --> 01:06:47,208 So, so, but to your point about the other stuff is that. 1076 01:06:47,433 --> 01:06:53,113 Uh, I view statism and communism and all of these brutal things as just the 1077 01:06:53,113 --> 01:06:56,323 next iteration of organized religion. 1078 01:06:56,333 --> 01:06:58,043 They're, they're, they're the same thing. 1079 01:06:58,053 --> 01:06:59,613 They're arguably even worse. 1080 01:06:59,653 --> 01:07:03,133 I've, I've changed my views on that since finding Bitcoin, by the way. 1081 01:07:03,618 --> 01:07:07,928 And I now view statism as the worst form of religion yet, since it's 1082 01:07:07,928 --> 01:07:09,518 more intrusive than the others. 1083 01:07:09,568 --> 01:07:14,868 And it's, it's arguably better for the flock to believe in a fictitious guy in 1084 01:07:14,868 --> 01:07:17,448 the sky than to believe in Kim Jong un. 1085 01:07:17,508 --> 01:07:20,028 I understand that, that aspect of it. 1086 01:07:20,498 --> 01:07:24,638 But having said that, fiat money requires belief. 1087 01:07:25,503 --> 01:07:28,033 And it's scarce in that they're scarce. 1088 01:07:28,033 --> 01:07:32,243 They require you to appeal to some form of authority. 1089 01:07:32,853 --> 01:07:36,273 Bitcoin has none of that since everything in it is verifiable. 1090 01:07:36,273 --> 01:07:41,473 You can, you can look everything up, uh, and you can check for yourself 1091 01:07:41,513 --> 01:07:44,563 that people are actually doing what they're saying they're doing. 1092 01:07:44,913 --> 01:07:49,583 So that's why I view it as financial atheism and not, uh, it's the 1093 01:07:49,623 --> 01:07:53,353 only type of money we've ever had that doesn't require belief. 1094 01:07:54,098 --> 01:07:54,858 You know what I mean? 1095 01:07:55,578 --> 01:08:01,248 Like, uh, even the gold monger could say that the, oh, you have to buy this gold 1096 01:08:01,248 --> 01:08:03,628 for coin from me because gold is scarce. 1097 01:08:03,948 --> 01:08:08,308 And you, there was no way of verifying that gold was actually scarce except 1098 01:08:08,328 --> 01:08:10,168 going and trying to dig for it yourself. 1099 01:08:10,248 --> 01:08:15,258 So Bitcoin, you, doesn't require any type of belief. 1100 01:08:15,278 --> 01:08:18,608 And that's why I think it maps on so well to atheism. 1101 01:08:18,998 --> 01:08:22,278 And, but the beauty of this is that. 1102 01:08:23,253 --> 01:08:26,853 We have these differences of opinion here, and it's still, 1103 01:08:27,273 --> 01:08:30,043 both worldviews map onto Bitcoin. 1104 01:08:30,043 --> 01:08:33,263 That's what I find fascinating, and so does a plethora of 1105 01:08:33,263 --> 01:08:36,213 other worldviews as well. 1106 01:08:36,823 --> 01:08:37,703 Okay, done with the 1107 01:08:37,718 --> 01:08:44,468 I think respecting property rights is something that's part of natural law. 1108 01:08:45,538 --> 01:08:51,508 Uh, like, uh, for, for me, when, when, when you say like, uh, fiat is organized 1109 01:08:51,508 --> 01:08:57,658 religion, I, I mean, I, I think Statism is not organized religion at all. 1110 01:08:57,658 --> 01:08:59,788 It's, it's just somebody, 1111 01:09:00,543 --> 01:09:01,303 It's a cult. 1112 01:09:01,413 --> 01:09:04,648 somebody just sort of controlling things for everybody else. 1113 01:09:04,648 --> 01:09:04,888 There's. 1114 01:09:05,593 --> 01:09:07,123 Religious aspect to it. 1115 01:09:07,123 --> 01:09:10,753 There's no, you know, like afterlife or anything like that, . It's 1116 01:09:10,753 --> 01:09:13,363 just we control you and that's it. 1117 01:09:13,363 --> 01:09:13,633 Right? 1118 01:09:13,633 --> 01:09:15,103 Like it's, and most 1119 01:09:15,133 --> 01:09:17,053 does the dollar bill say, in God we trust? 1120 01:09:17,423 --> 01:09:18,613 And the bitcoin does not. 1121 01:09:19,053 --> 01:09:23,163 I mean, like that, that's, I, I don't know who, who put that there, 1122 01:09:23,163 --> 01:09:25,263 but that, that the whole idea. 1123 01:09:26,418 --> 01:09:30,538 The idea of fiat money was always, here, we get to make the 1124 01:09:30,538 --> 01:09:31,878 rules because we are in power. 1125 01:09:31,878 --> 01:09:37,278 It's very Nietzschean in that regard, uh, in, in that the people that 1126 01:09:37,278 --> 01:09:40,998 make, uh, that create the rules, the ones in power get to, get to 1127 01:09:41,178 --> 01:09:42,808 set the rules for everybody else. 1128 01:09:42,958 --> 01:09:48,348 And, in a sense it, it, uh, it denies sort of like individual 1129 01:09:48,358 --> 01:09:53,798 dignity, um, and that is of course, a Christian concept, the idea that 1130 01:09:53,858 --> 01:09:55,438 people have value and it, it, it... 1131 01:09:55,693 --> 01:10:01,163 It wasn't sort of like, uh, something that most people even 1132 01:10:01,173 --> 01:10:06,573 heard of or thought legitimate until Christianity came into being. 1133 01:10:06,583 --> 01:10:11,193 Like, before that it was, you know, throw, like, you're only as 1134 01:10:11,193 --> 01:10:15,473 valuable as you are useful to the community that you're in and so on. 1135 01:10:15,473 --> 01:10:21,493 So, like, this idea that individuals have this importance 1136 01:10:21,533 --> 01:10:24,468 and that Their time is valuable. 1137 01:10:25,278 --> 01:10:28,448 It requires, I think, a Christian worldview. 1138 01:10:28,488 --> 01:10:33,908 I think it requires this concept of human dignity, which I don't think you 1139 01:10:33,908 --> 01:10:36,138 can derive from any form of atheism. 1140 01:10:36,148 --> 01:10:40,658 You can't say, okay, people are intrinsically valuable. 1141 01:10:41,078 --> 01:10:41,618 Unless... 1142 01:10:42,743 --> 01:10:48,463 There, I mean, like, you, you need some reason for that and it's, uh, it's, 1143 01:10:48,483 --> 01:10:54,823 it's a little bit taken as like an axiom for a lot of, uh, a lot of, I guess, 1144 01:10:54,873 --> 01:11:00,603 atheists on the left as far as I can tell, but it's, it comes from a Christian 1145 01:11:00,603 --> 01:11:06,203 worldview and I don't know how you get that without, you know, some, uh, Imago 1146 01:11:06,203 --> 01:11:12,353 Dei, some, uh, some, uh, idea that, that there is value in human beings. 1147 01:11:12,745 --> 01:11:14,315 I don't really see why you need one. 1148 01:11:14,615 --> 01:11:19,245 You can just observe the world around you, and I think you find empathy in 1149 01:11:19,405 --> 01:11:25,209 just, like, Empathy is inherent within us, whether we live in a place that 1150 01:11:25,299 --> 01:11:27,879 even has Christianity or not, I'm sure. 1151 01:11:28,544 --> 01:11:35,534 You know, Eskimos have, uh, uh, or Inuit, so they call them these days, right, and 1152 01:11:35,534 --> 01:11:41,084 not Eskimos, that's a, that's one of those taboo words, but, uh, if, what I'm saying, 1153 01:11:41,104 --> 01:11:47,874 like, a, a tribe of human beings on a deserted, on an island that has never seen 1154 01:11:48,284 --> 01:11:53,604 any Christian ever, you know, a tribe that can also have a morality and they can also 1155 01:11:53,604 --> 01:11:57,964 have an inherent empathy for one another. 1156 01:11:58,629 --> 01:11:59,729 they had a very different morality. 1157 01:12:00,049 --> 01:12:03,909 It was a morality that didn't value specific individuals 1158 01:12:03,909 --> 01:12:05,109 just for being people. 1159 01:12:05,149 --> 01:12:08,899 So, for example, like, ancient Sparta, ancient Sparta. 1160 01:12:08,939 --> 01:12:14,119 They, they, if a baby had a defect, they let them die, right? 1161 01:12:14,129 --> 01:12:15,639 Like, they killed them, more or less. 1162 01:12:16,109 --> 01:12:17,859 Like, that was a very common thing. 1163 01:12:18,209 --> 01:12:19,739 You know, child sacrifice. 1164 01:12:20,164 --> 01:12:20,774 Very common. 1165 01:12:23,324 --> 01:12:27,784 The concept of human dignity, of individuals being worth something, and 1166 01:12:27,784 --> 01:12:32,824 I think if I heard you correctly before, what you were saying is human time is 1167 01:12:32,824 --> 01:12:39,434 valuable, and for each individual, I think in that is this assumption that people are 1168 01:12:39,434 --> 01:12:46,344 valuable and as I'm saying like it's very I don't know of an atheist formulation 1169 01:12:46,364 --> 01:12:50,634 that can derive that because once again you're trying to go from is to ought 1170 01:12:51,044 --> 01:12:55,384 What's the christian, uh, how does a christian go from, uh, an ought 1171 01:12:55,394 --> 01:12:57,214 to an is then, or an is to an 1172 01:12:57,244 --> 01:13:00,794 well I mean you know you don't need to because you have the existence 1173 01:13:00,794 --> 01:13:05,114 of God and if you believe in an all powerful being then of course he 1174 01:13:05,114 --> 01:13:09,954 he can he he can set morality and and that's that's what we believe. 1175 01:13:10,186 --> 01:13:13,106 Each person is, uh, uh, is made in the image of God and 1176 01:13:13,106 --> 01:13:14,986 therefore each person is valuable. 1177 01:13:15,356 --> 01:13:19,656 And like that, that's, that's a Christian, it's a very specifically Christian thing. 1178 01:13:20,006 --> 01:13:23,766 I, I want you to understand how different it, it was from everything 1179 01:13:23,766 --> 01:13:29,406 that came before because people were sacrificed and people were thrown away. 1180 01:13:29,406 --> 01:13:33,346 People were enslaved and things like that without any recourse. 1181 01:13:33,456 --> 01:13:36,316 Uh, and, and part of it was because they thought... 1182 01:13:36,876 --> 01:13:42,446 Human beings, like, are almost like property, um, but, you know, the, the, 1183 01:13:42,456 --> 01:13:48,526 this idea that you, you know, people are valuable or that they, they have, um, 1184 01:13:48,536 --> 01:13:52,996 you know, their time is valuable has to come from some basis and I, I'm not sure 1185 01:13:53,006 --> 01:13:54,826 you, you have that in your formulation. 1186 01:13:55,036 --> 01:13:59,736 human race survived for hundreds of thousands and even millions 1187 01:13:59,736 --> 01:14:05,246 of years without Christianity, before, before Christianity even 1188 01:14:05,486 --> 01:14:06,186 Yeah, and, 1189 01:14:06,266 --> 01:14:09,326 and do you think that was all, all brutal? 1190 01:14:09,766 --> 01:14:10,426 I don't think so. 1191 01:14:10,426 --> 01:14:12,576 I think people took great care of one another and 1192 01:14:12,876 --> 01:14:16,676 mean, I, we don't, we don't really know, but a lot of it was very brutal. 1193 01:14:17,666 --> 01:14:18,496 yeah, very brutal. 1194 01:14:18,526 --> 01:14:20,896 But so was a lot of Christian history as well. 1195 01:14:20,916 --> 01:14:22,646 I mean, the Crusades and, you 1196 01:14:22,811 --> 01:14:23,761 no, I'm just 1197 01:14:23,946 --> 01:14:27,306 conquering of the Americas was very, very brutal. 1198 01:14:27,451 --> 01:14:30,491 Yeah, yeah, but like Knut, you're bringing up other stuff. 1199 01:14:30,511 --> 01:14:35,421 I'm asking you where your formulation that individual time is valuable 1200 01:14:35,901 --> 01:14:37,531 requires, like, comes from. 1201 01:14:37,531 --> 01:14:42,211 Because if it, if it is valuable, if time is valuable to each, every 1202 01:14:42,211 --> 01:14:47,681 individual's time is valuable, you need to have some concept of individual value. 1203 01:14:48,161 --> 01:14:53,151 And under atheism, Like, how do you get to the point where individuals are valuable? 1204 01:14:53,393 --> 01:14:57,053 Let me, let me to really try, really try to answer that question. 1205 01:14:57,653 --> 01:15:03,633 Like, I would say that a human lifetime is a scarce resource. 1206 01:15:04,033 --> 01:15:07,853 And like other scarce resources, there's supply and demand for it. 1207 01:15:08,153 --> 01:15:11,143 So others have demand for your labor, for instance. 1208 01:15:11,593 --> 01:15:18,483 Uh, so, so your, your time is valuable to other human beings because you can provide 1209 01:15:18,483 --> 01:15:20,843 them with services during that lifetime. 1210 01:15:21,133 --> 01:15:22,603 You can provide value to them. 1211 01:15:22,803 --> 01:15:26,043 Like, Jimmy, you're valuable to me right now, and I hope I'm valuable 1212 01:15:26,043 --> 01:15:28,943 to you because we're having this conversation with one another. 1213 01:15:29,153 --> 01:15:34,098 We're exchanging My life for your life and vice versa right now, we're, we're, 1214 01:15:34,108 --> 01:15:39,858 we're expending, we're spending our time with one another, literally spending 1215 01:15:39,858 --> 01:15:41,878 it because we're not getting it back. 1216 01:15:42,128 --> 01:15:45,488 So to me, it's just like any other good or service in the world. 1217 01:15:45,508 --> 01:15:49,068 It's, it's valuable because it's scarce and there's a demand for it. 1218 01:15:49,808 --> 01:15:53,768 And that's what makes a human life valuable, literally. 1219 01:15:54,105 --> 01:15:58,895 Alright, and that's a very utilitarian sort of conception, and I, I think, 1220 01:15:58,905 --> 01:16:02,605 like, the ancient Spartans would have agreed with you, well, there, there's 1221 01:16:02,605 --> 01:16:08,415 this baby that is horribly deformed, um, and, you know, it, it isn't going 1222 01:16:08,415 --> 01:16:10,735 to be able to walk, uh, or anything. 1223 01:16:11,110 --> 01:16:15,520 Uh, and their, their time is unvaluable because they are not going to 1224 01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:17,600 provide any good or service to us. 1225 01:16:17,910 --> 01:16:23,090 Therefore, we're going to let it freeze out in, uh, in the, you know, 1226 01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:27,060 it, you know, and like, just not have it be a part of our community. 1227 01:16:27,070 --> 01:16:30,130 And under your formulation, that would be correct. 1228 01:16:30,410 --> 01:16:32,390 I mean, and that's fine. 1229 01:16:32,390 --> 01:16:36,910 If you, if you have that morality, I'm not going to say that that's illegitimate. 1230 01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:40,360 But I'm just saying, like, The Christian response would be, 1231 01:16:40,370 --> 01:16:41,870 that baby is still valuable. 1232 01:16:42,180 --> 01:16:46,720 Yes, and uh, I think that I differ from Christians sometimes there, would you 1233 01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:52,740 let a brain dead baby stay alive for 10 years without any, any functioning 1234 01:16:52,750 --> 01:16:54,950 brain, any functioning conscious? 1235 01:16:55,410 --> 01:16:57,880 Yes, they're the image of God. 1236 01:16:58,020 --> 01:16:59,800 Yes, absolutely. 1237 01:17:00,380 --> 01:17:05,550 Alright, I think we differ there then, and I think you're, I think I'm a brutal 1238 01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:12,040 murderer for doing so, but I think the, the, the, the case for, for uh, for 1239 01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:17,240 pulling the plug on that machine that is artificially keeping that Vegetable alive. 1240 01:17:17,630 --> 01:17:20,590 It's, there's a moral case for, to be made for that. 1241 01:17:20,630 --> 01:17:26,180 If you just have this Christian, every, if every, every life is equal, 1242 01:17:26,700 --> 01:17:27,010 right? 1243 01:17:27,030 --> 01:17:30,880 Like somebody that is a burden to a lot of people and so on. 1244 01:17:31,480 --> 01:17:35,625 But I mean, like But, but there's like somebody that's homeless that's like 1245 01:17:35,625 --> 01:17:40,365 mentally ill and not able to do it, hold it, hold down any job or whatever. 1246 01:17:40,725 --> 01:17:46,465 Like, the lines get a lot grayer, Knut, and if you don't have this conception 1247 01:17:46,465 --> 01:17:50,665 that individuals are valuable for their own sake, then you very quickly 1248 01:17:50,685 --> 01:17:55,315 get into very dark places, like morally speaking, you know what I 1249 01:17:55,460 --> 01:17:59,020 well I do, but I, I think your argument gets you into the Superman 1250 01:17:59,020 --> 01:18:02,990 dilemma that you took up before again, because like, now, now, now you're 1251 01:18:02,990 --> 01:18:07,110 saying that each and every life on earth should be respected equally. 1252 01:18:07,110 --> 01:18:11,210 Therefore, it becomes your calling to go and save everyone then. 1253 01:18:11,850 --> 01:18:16,610 It's like, is that even, uh, is that even a worldview that 1254 01:18:16,630 --> 01:18:19,990 is productive for that cause? 1255 01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:25,210 I don't know, like, why aren't you a doctor and running around saving 1256 01:18:25,375 --> 01:18:26,385 was a waste? 1257 01:18:26,475 --> 01:18:29,095 I mean, she, she went into Calcutta and... 1258 01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:34,010 Took, uh, took, took on, like, babies that, like, nobody wanted 1259 01:18:34,010 --> 01:18:35,430 and helped raise them and stuff like 1260 01:18:35,500 --> 01:18:40,700 Only if, only if they said that, uh, only if they accepted God. 1261 01:18:41,130 --> 01:18:44,010 If they didn't accept the rules that she set for them, she 1262 01:18:44,010 --> 01:18:45,380 was fucking brutal to them. 1263 01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:48,740 She was not a good human being in my opinion, at all. 1264 01:18:49,300 --> 01:18:51,460 She took money from the horrible dictators. 1265 01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:52,960 one wanted. 1266 01:18:53,170 --> 01:18:55,050 Like, these were people that no one 1267 01:18:55,130 --> 01:18:57,850 but she only helped them if they accepted God. 1268 01:18:58,060 --> 01:19:00,440 So if they adopted what she 1269 01:19:00,570 --> 01:19:03,629 I mean, like, the thing is, like, she, she, she... 1270 01:19:04,220 --> 01:19:07,850 I mean, the thing is, Knut, you're, you're, you're, you're 1271 01:19:07,850 --> 01:19:10,340 then in a worse position because you wouldn't help them at all. 1272 01:19:11,570 --> 01:19:14,980 No, I would, I would absolutely help them if I could. 1273 01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:17,450 And I, if I think, if I thought that that was 1274 01:19:17,450 --> 01:19:19,810 So aren't you in the same Superman dilemma? 1275 01:19:19,810 --> 01:19:22,820 I mean, like, you're, you're making it sound like it's a Christian problem, but 1276 01:19:22,820 --> 01:19:24,150 you, you just said you would help them. 1277 01:19:24,685 --> 01:19:30,235 I think you and I have found the same solution to that Superman dilemma, not 1278 01:19:30,245 --> 01:19:34,195 that none of, I don't think neither you or I, nor I think that we're Superman, 1279 01:19:34,495 --> 01:19:39,835 but I think we found, uh, spending our time explaining to Bitcoin to people 1280 01:19:39,885 --> 01:19:44,205 is the best thing we can do for the most, the biggest amount of people. 1281 01:19:44,205 --> 01:19:46,485 Like, that's, that's the best way we can help it. 1282 01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:50,090 We can leave this planet a little better than we came into it. 1283 01:19:50,480 --> 01:19:52,460 That's, that's my goal with this anyway. 1284 01:19:52,460 --> 01:19:55,460 To, to, to, to, to make the world a better place. 1285 01:19:55,490 --> 01:19:59,810 Uh, uh, sounds pretentious, but, but I think you have that goal as well. 1286 01:19:59,815 --> 01:19:59,990 And I 1287 01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:01,900 does better even mean for you though? 1288 01:20:01,980 --> 01:20:04,550 Like, uh, like, cause in a sense, like. 1289 01:20:05,190 --> 01:20:10,710 Is it, is it the optimization of human life or utility that other people find? 1290 01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:15,850 Or, I mean, because I have trouble understanding what the end goal is when 1291 01:20:16,660 --> 01:20:21,180 like, it's, it's hard for me to see what you see as good and what you see as bad. 1292 01:20:21,626 --> 01:20:26,156 Well, I see violence as bad, and, uh, communication as good. 1293 01:20:26,246 --> 01:20:29,696 Like it's the, it's back to the hopper argumentation for, 1294 01:20:29,726 --> 01:20:31,466 uh, argument for argumentation. 1295 01:20:31,466 --> 01:20:37,200 Again, like The, the more the freer the market, the sounder the money, the, the, 1296 01:20:37,350 --> 01:20:40,290 the fewer resources get misallocated. 1297 01:20:40,290 --> 01:20:41,430 I know we agree on that. 1298 01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:46,760 And, uh, by misallocation we, we mean that they're not put in use 1299 01:20:46,820 --> 01:20:51,440 for, for individuals to reach their individual ends and goals. 1300 01:20:51,530 --> 01:20:56,520 Uh, they're the a a a a select few get to choose all that. 1301 01:20:56,520 --> 01:21:00,420 And, and in doing so, they also ruin things for themselves, but they don't know 1302 01:21:00,420 --> 01:21:03,040 it because they don't know the power of the free market and so on and so forth. 1303 01:21:04,017 --> 01:21:11,607 it's, it's easy to be good without, without having to have, um, uh, like, 1304 01:21:11,637 --> 01:21:15,787 I don't see why a belief in a god would necessarily change that dilemma. 1305 01:21:16,687 --> 01:21:18,937 Um, I don't see why, why it would be. 1306 01:21:19,162 --> 01:21:20,772 might not in all God. 1307 01:21:20,792 --> 01:21:26,052 I know if you believe in my God that the dilemma is solved very easily, but 1308 01:21:26,582 --> 01:21:34,012 I, but the, the, the main thing is that it's, uh, under what, and to go back to 1309 01:21:34,012 --> 01:21:39,157 sort of the original argument with fiat money, what you had is people making 1310 01:21:39,157 --> 01:21:44,597 the rules instead of following the rules that I think are set by natural law. 1311 01:21:44,617 --> 01:21:50,187 And the basis of natural law, I think, requires some sort of moral order. 1312 01:21:50,217 --> 01:21:55,297 And, uh, and a moral order under an atheist view is very difficult to come up 1313 01:21:55,367 --> 01:21:58,057 just like this is the is to ought thing. 1314 01:21:59,032 --> 01:22:00,362 Knut, I want to take this one. 1315 01:22:00,362 --> 01:22:01,142 I want to take this one. 1316 01:22:01,142 --> 01:22:01,412 Okay. 1317 01:22:01,452 --> 01:22:01,782 Okay. 1318 01:22:02,872 --> 01:22:09,222 I, I, I want to, to, because I think I'm seeing here the real clash that, 1319 01:22:09,362 --> 01:22:13,222 that Jimmy, I think not to put words in your mouth, but I think you are making 1320 01:22:13,222 --> 01:22:14,592 an assertion, something about that. 1321 01:22:15,277 --> 01:22:18,447 Without a belief in the Christian God, you cannot have the 1322 01:22:18,477 --> 01:22:20,487 exact same level of morality. 1323 01:22:20,977 --> 01:22:25,327 My assertion is that meaning is still possible, and finding meaning 1324 01:22:26,207 --> 01:22:30,877 through whichever means of morality, justification, learning it, learning it 1325 01:22:30,877 --> 01:22:33,007 through culture, learning it through self. 1326 01:22:33,267 --> 01:22:38,257 I would say that many people in the Bitcoin community who are not Christians, 1327 01:22:38,307 --> 01:22:43,047 who have found Bitcoin and improved themselves, have Learned to have some 1328 01:22:43,047 --> 01:22:47,827 kind of meaning, whether it's through Bitcoin or Bitcoin adjacent things. 1329 01:22:48,127 --> 01:22:52,627 And so I would put you both in the camp of meaning having people and 1330 01:22:52,627 --> 01:22:57,177 it's the absence of meaning that fiat comes from in my view, because 1331 01:22:57,207 --> 01:22:58,807 that's the Nietzschean thing, right? 1332 01:22:59,297 --> 01:23:01,257 We, uh, God is dead and we have killed him. 1333 01:23:01,257 --> 01:23:03,967 It's the absence of meeting, not specifically the absence 1334 01:23:03,967 --> 01:23:05,607 of the Christian God, right? 1335 01:23:05,816 --> 01:23:08,896 Well, it's, it's not just the absence of meaning, but it's, it's 1336 01:23:08,896 --> 01:23:10,636 the absence of traditional morality. 1337 01:23:10,666 --> 01:23:15,646 So, A lot of the morality that we take for granted, almost, comes 1338 01:23:15,646 --> 01:23:17,946 from a very Christian worldview. 1339 01:23:18,036 --> 01:23:22,796 I think I've made that case with, uh, you know, like, sort of babies and, uh, 1340 01:23:22,816 --> 01:23:28,676 that, like, in almost every other culture before Christianity, this was the norm 1341 01:23:28,716 --> 01:23:35,821 to, uh, To, like, treat people almost like property in some ways, or it, uh, based on 1342 01:23:35,821 --> 01:23:41,811 utilitarian, uh, calculations or something like that, I, I, I find that abhorrent, I 1343 01:23:41,841 --> 01:23:47,111 think most people do, to, like, just sort of callously set aside somebody because 1344 01:23:47,121 --> 01:23:51,651 they're no longer useful to society, that, I mean, that, that would be Horrible. 1345 01:23:51,751 --> 01:23:53,501 I, I, I think most people agree with that. 1346 01:23:53,901 --> 01:24:00,151 I'm, I'm just, uh, I'm asserting that natural law, and it's not about like 1347 01:24:00,181 --> 01:24:05,491 alignment with Christianity or whatever, that natural law, at the very least, 1348 01:24:06,021 --> 01:24:08,311 requires some sort of moral order. 1349 01:24:08,911 --> 01:24:11,441 Now, as a Christian, I would say that that's the law 1350 01:24:11,461 --> 01:24:13,251 written on our hearts by God. 1351 01:24:13,901 --> 01:24:18,121 Uh, but you know, for, for, for an atheist, you have, you have 1352 01:24:18,121 --> 01:24:20,001 to come up with why that's true. 1353 01:24:20,441 --> 01:24:24,236 Like why, why Uh, you know, like committing violence 1354 01:24:24,266 --> 01:24:26,296 against somebody else is bad. 1355 01:24:26,296 --> 01:24:30,556 And, and, you know, Knut, I think, uh, to your credit, the, the formulations you've 1356 01:24:30,556 --> 01:24:36,486 come up with are because it's more useful, but I would submit to you that utilitarian 1357 01:24:36,486 --> 01:24:38,746 arguments almost always lead to. 1358 01:24:39,171 --> 01:24:44,691 A very bad philosophical place because you get into the trolley dilemma and 1359 01:24:44,691 --> 01:24:48,801 stuff like that where you're, you know, harvesting a fat man's organs so 1360 01:24:48,801 --> 01:24:52,631 you can, you can go and uh, save five people or something, you know, like, 1361 01:24:52,752 --> 01:24:54,962 Okay, no, no, no. 1362 01:24:55,292 --> 01:25:00,212 Where I'm coming from, Jimmy, is that the very notion of a God and these, 1363 01:25:00,292 --> 01:25:06,042 uh, these moral guidelines that you talk about, I believe that they came 1364 01:25:06,052 --> 01:25:08,322 from a guy trying to do just that. 1365 01:25:08,662 --> 01:25:12,512 Trying to find a way to rationalize that, and he wrote this story 1366 01:25:12,512 --> 01:25:14,032 down, and that's how he did that. 1367 01:25:14,252 --> 01:25:18,202 So I think man preceded God, and that's where we differ, because I think 1368 01:25:18,202 --> 01:25:19,552 this is a story we tell ourselves. 1369 01:25:19,887 --> 01:25:24,547 but, but by saying that you're saying the morals existed before the guy, right? 1370 01:25:25,007 --> 01:25:25,587 So where did the 1371 01:25:25,612 --> 01:25:26,592 Yeah, yeah. 1372 01:25:27,402 --> 01:25:32,772 Well, not, I think we evolved the morals because our group survivability 1373 01:25:32,812 --> 01:25:36,312 benefited from us having that moral, that kind of moral standard. 1374 01:25:36,362 --> 01:25:39,632 And that includes saving the baby that's deformed. 1375 01:25:40,062 --> 01:25:45,692 That, that level of empathy Uh, enables trust in the rest of the group. 1376 01:25:45,712 --> 01:25:47,782 You know that you're not going to be left out. 1377 01:25:47,862 --> 01:25:50,312 So you know that you're not going to get ostracized and that's 1378 01:25:50,362 --> 01:25:52,132 good for the group survival. 1379 01:25:52,352 --> 01:25:57,202 It's not that, you know, evolutionary theory is not just, it's not 1380 01:25:57,202 --> 01:25:59,322 just people killing one another. 1381 01:25:59,332 --> 01:26:01,632 It's, it's a collaboration as well. 1382 01:26:02,497 --> 01:26:06,207 Well, Knut, I think I just showed with the example of Sparta, for 1383 01:26:06,207 --> 01:26:10,867 example, that that was exactly the opposite of what required them to 1384 01:26:10,952 --> 01:26:12,273 That's That's one, that's one example. 1385 01:26:12,273 --> 01:26:14,333 You can also, you can also use counterexamples. 1386 01:26:14,393 --> 01:26:18,263 Christian, you can't say that throughout the entire life of 1387 01:26:18,263 --> 01:26:22,213 Christianity that everyone had the prosperity necessary to not have to 1388 01:26:22,213 --> 01:26:24,593 make a decision like that, right? 1389 01:26:24,763 --> 01:26:26,663 I think scarcity is the real problem there. 1390 01:26:26,933 --> 01:26:30,983 These so called utilitarian problems come in when there is such 1391 01:26:30,983 --> 01:26:33,743 a degree of scarcity that those decisions actually have to be made. 1392 01:26:33,773 --> 01:26:38,828 And, and I would assert that A group of people that doesn't actually make these 1393 01:26:38,828 --> 01:26:41,218 decisions correctly will not survive. 1394 01:26:41,228 --> 01:26:46,108 If, if the tribe decides not to actually make some pragmatic decisions 1395 01:26:46,108 --> 01:26:49,638 about who gets to eat, the whole tribe might not survive the winter. 1396 01:26:49,698 --> 01:26:53,298 And that's terrible, and I don't think that's unique to Christianity. 1397 01:26:55,698 --> 01:27:01,208 But your argument is that it is somehow a more evolutionary fit for survival, right? 1398 01:27:01,352 --> 01:27:06,132 a more important point to me than the notion of God itself, because 1399 01:27:06,132 --> 01:27:10,702 I really don't care what people personally, about personal belief. 1400 01:27:10,902 --> 01:27:14,442 What bothers me is organized religion, and this notion that, 1401 01:27:14,732 --> 01:27:18,282 you know, to me, the Pope is just another version of a central bank. 1402 01:27:18,372 --> 01:27:22,372 It's a guy that says that he is in contact with God, and that he 1403 01:27:22,392 --> 01:27:25,462 sets rules for people, and whatever he says, people get influenced. 1404 01:27:25,612 --> 01:27:26,882 by that and they do whatever. 1405 01:27:27,132 --> 01:27:30,052 And now he's going around waving rainbow flags and stuff. 1406 01:27:30,052 --> 01:27:35,852 So I, I, I think the whole, the, the appeal to authority is the problem, 1407 01:27:36,167 --> 01:27:38,987 that's, uh, believe it or not, that's actually a ver, 1408 01:27:39,047 --> 01:27:41,117 fairly modern, um, conception. 1409 01:27:41,117 --> 01:27:44,657 The infallibility of the Pope was a doctrine that was adopted 1410 01:27:44,657 --> 01:27:47,437 around in, in the 19th century. 1411 01:27:47,437 --> 01:27:51,757 So it's a, it's a, like most of the history of Christianity does 1412 01:27:51,762 --> 01:27:56,847 not have this particularly like omnipotent authoritarian pope. 1413 01:27:56,967 --> 01:28:02,027 So that, that Lord Acton quote at power corrupts absolutely. 1414 01:28:02,642 --> 01:28:06,742 Absolute Power, or Power Corrupts, Absolute Power Corrupts, Absolutely. 1415 01:28:07,052 --> 01:28:11,452 He was, he was a Catholic talking about the Pope, about that exact issue. 1416 01:28:11,452 --> 01:28:15,682 So, it's a fairly recent phenomenon, and I, I believe it's, it's sort 1417 01:28:15,682 --> 01:28:20,722 of a result of, I honestly, Marxist influence, but yeah, and that 1418 01:28:20,722 --> 01:28:22,732 Catholic social teaching, but yeah. 1419 01:28:23,232 --> 01:28:24,982 but yeah, yes, we do. 1420 01:28:25,482 --> 01:28:29,482 And I think that that's, to me, the problem becomes then like. 1421 01:28:30,142 --> 01:28:35,372 I respect, because of this, I respect you as a Christian way more than I 1422 01:28:35,772 --> 01:28:41,762 respect your average Pope fan, you know, because there are so many different 1423 01:28:41,842 --> 01:28:46,522 definitions of the word Christianity, as we've explored today, there are 1424 01:28:46,522 --> 01:28:52,067 even different definitions of the The, the different definitions of the word 1425 01:28:52,067 --> 01:28:58,087 atheist as well, and, uh, the like, there, the, this is so nuanced and I 1426 01:28:58,087 --> 01:29:00,157 think it has to do with semantics a lot. 1427 01:29:00,547 --> 01:29:05,107 Uh, but the, the point I, I, I wouldn't want you to think of me as someone that 1428 01:29:05,112 --> 01:29:11,017 hates the notion of God, because that's not representative of what I think at all. 1429 01:29:11,347 --> 01:29:14,047 I, I hate appeals to authority. 1430 01:29:14,047 --> 01:29:17,377 That's like, I think people should think for themselves. 1431 01:29:17,942 --> 01:29:23,842 And, uh, and be able to do so to as large an extent as possible because, 1432 01:29:23,992 --> 01:29:28,572 you know, I'm a, well, freedom maximalist for lack of a better word. 1433 01:29:28,922 --> 01:29:33,312 But Knut, Knut, I'm going to say that you, you appeal to authority too, but 1434 01:29:33,312 --> 01:29:38,452 you appeal to some sort of evolutionary side trick on, on, on the moral laws, 1435 01:29:38,932 --> 01:29:43,922 saying they evolved and I don't know exactly how they evolved or why, but 1436 01:29:44,242 --> 01:29:50,492 they exist because of this, this, uh, you know, evolutionary group 1437 01:29:50,492 --> 01:29:55,297 dynamic or whatever it is, uh, I mean that, that's a form of authority. 1438 01:29:55,297 --> 01:30:01,137 It's, it's asserting something that you can't prove exists, that, that, 1439 01:30:01,257 --> 01:30:03,297 like this moral law came into being, 1440 01:30:03,832 --> 01:30:05,612 No, but neither can you, Jimmy. 1441 01:30:05,702 --> 01:30:06,612 Neither can you. 1442 01:30:06,622 --> 01:30:07,572 You can't prove it 1443 01:30:07,842 --> 01:30:10,602 neither of us can, but that's the point, right? 1444 01:30:10,602 --> 01:30:16,332 Is that if you're going to say I reject all authority ever, then you would 1445 01:30:16,332 --> 01:30:17,782 have to reject your own argument. 1446 01:30:18,113 --> 01:30:23,753 Yeah, I, I guess, uh, I, I, I, I want to minimize, uh, uh, appeals to 1447 01:30:23,753 --> 01:30:27,773 authority just as I want to minimize the size of government or the size of the 1448 01:30:27,773 --> 01:30:30,793 church or whatever, like the, the po. 1449 01:30:30,883 --> 01:30:36,653 But, uh, another point that is important to make is that a belief in evolutionary 1450 01:30:36,653 --> 01:30:39,283 theory has nothing to do with atheism. 1451 01:30:39,863 --> 01:30:43,563 A lot of atheists buy the evolutionary theory, but that's 1452 01:30:43,563 --> 01:30:44,983 not what the word atheist means. 1453 01:30:45,023 --> 01:30:50,433 The atheism just means the rejection of theistic ideas. 1454 01:30:51,508 --> 01:30:53,268 yeah, and I kind of get that. 1455 01:30:53,908 --> 01:30:59,358 I'm just responding to what you asserted before that the moral law 1456 01:30:59,408 --> 01:31:03,978 that you, uh, that you follow more or less, it comes from some group 1457 01:31:03,978 --> 01:31:08,768 dynamic that you can't identify or figure out how it came into being. 1458 01:31:09,093 --> 01:31:12,903 You just assert that it has, and in a sense, that's, that's a form of authority. 1459 01:31:13,098 --> 01:31:15,178 you assert that it came from God. 1460 01:31:15,338 --> 01:31:20,028 So we have, I'm saying, I'm saying, I don't know, and I, 1461 01:31:20,228 --> 01:31:22,378 I, I'm fine with not knowing. 1462 01:31:22,428 --> 01:31:25,728 I cannot prove that it happened this way or that way or what 1463 01:31:25,768 --> 01:31:27,558 kind of evolution happened. 1464 01:31:27,623 --> 01:31:30,063 then why do you follow it if you don't know where it comes from? 1465 01:31:30,073 --> 01:31:31,133 That's, that's the part 1466 01:31:31,408 --> 01:31:32,728 Well, neither do you. 1467 01:31:32,778 --> 01:31:33,958 That's, that's the thing. 1468 01:31:33,968 --> 01:31:36,358 You're, you have a belief, but you can't prove it. 1469 01:31:37,143 --> 01:31:42,173 I believe in God, but, uh, but for you, you're following a moral law where 1470 01:31:42,173 --> 01:31:45,543 you don't know where it came from, you don't know why, why it exists. 1471 01:31:46,043 --> 01:31:50,303 How is it so hard to, to, for you to accept that I believe in a set of 1472 01:31:50,303 --> 01:31:54,883 principles without believing in a God for me, the, what's the difference there? 1473 01:31:55,808 --> 01:31:58,508 Well, well, then why, why, why do you believe in the principles? 1474 01:31:58,508 --> 01:31:59,018 I guess 1475 01:31:59,053 --> 01:32:01,153 Well, when, why to counter it. 1476 01:32:01,213 --> 01:32:02,293 Why do you believe in God? 1477 01:32:02,293 --> 01:32:02,503 Then? 1478 01:32:02,833 --> 01:32:05,253 Like, why, what, 1479 01:32:05,503 --> 01:32:10,068 I, I, I, I've experienced God, you know that, that, I mean, but I, 1480 01:32:10,073 --> 01:32:12,228 I'm, I'm asking more about you. 1481 01:32:12,258 --> 01:32:15,168 Like you, you have these rules that you follow. 1482 01:32:15,493 --> 01:32:18,013 but this is me interviewing you, you know, not the, 1483 01:32:18,948 --> 01:32:21,288 like that, that, that's the part that's confusing to me. 1484 01:32:22,908 --> 01:32:27,158 And in a sense, that's where it sounds like a little NPC ish, honestly, 1485 01:32:27,158 --> 01:32:32,318 it's like, okay, there are these rules, I'm following them, I don't 1486 01:32:32,548 --> 01:32:38,108 really know why, um, like that's where it's a little confusing. 1487 01:32:38,318 --> 01:32:43,808 I'm saying that neither do you, Jimmy, and I'm just fine with not knowing why I 1488 01:32:43,808 --> 01:32:45,998 don't follow them, like, I don't need to 1489 01:32:46,028 --> 01:32:49,828 I don't know why you follow them, because you do follow certain moral rules, right? 1490 01:32:50,388 --> 01:32:54,698 I do, absolutely, I have high moral standards for myself and for my family. 1491 01:32:55,418 --> 01:32:59,528 but you're saying it came out of some evolutionary thing, and you 1492 01:32:59,788 --> 01:33:04,508 No, I just, I just think that these principles of natural law and first 1493 01:33:04,528 --> 01:33:11,443 principles thinking will do good to a lot of people as opposed to doing bad. 1494 01:33:11,453 --> 01:33:16,773 It will make people's lives more comfortable and easier and filled with 1495 01:33:16,773 --> 01:33:19,923 more meaning and better in general. 1496 01:33:20,263 --> 01:33:24,673 So, to me, it's a no brainer to follow these principles. 1497 01:33:25,013 --> 01:33:27,263 And the more I learn, the more I... 1498 01:33:27,268 --> 01:33:32,138 better, but you, like, this gets back to what's good, what's bad, 1499 01:33:32,148 --> 01:33:35,598 like, it's all kind of like, uh, 1500 01:33:35,793 --> 01:33:38,603 But you all have the same, you have the same problem. 1501 01:33:38,603 --> 01:33:39,323 That's my point. 1502 01:33:39,333 --> 01:33:41,223 Like, saying that there's 1503 01:33:41,233 --> 01:33:41,923 think I do. 1504 01:33:41,923 --> 01:33:43,615 I think I know exactly what good is. 1505 01:33:43,723 --> 01:33:47,403 It's, it's whatever's alignment with God, you know, like they're, 1506 01:33:47,403 --> 01:33:52,603 they're very, very much like easier ways to evaluate things for me. 1507 01:33:52,603 --> 01:33:55,683 Whereas for you, they're all kind of relative and subjective. 1508 01:33:55,683 --> 01:33:58,783 So it's very hard for me to understand what you're saying, 1509 01:33:59,283 --> 01:34:00,873 What if you're wrong then, Jimmy? 1510 01:34:00,873 --> 01:34:04,293 And one of these principles that you follow is completely wrong. 1511 01:34:04,513 --> 01:34:07,413 Like, for instance, that you should turn the other cheek or that you 1512 01:34:07,413 --> 01:34:12,463 should treat everyone equally or treat everyone as they would have treated you. 1513 01:34:12,943 --> 01:34:16,013 Uh, I, you know, people want to be treated differently. 1514 01:34:16,903 --> 01:34:20,833 So, so treating someone like you would have treated yourself is not 1515 01:34:20,853 --> 01:34:26,243 necessarily a good moral principle to live by, in my opinion, and also turning 1516 01:34:26,243 --> 01:34:30,563 the other cheek is not always the correct option in a moral sense to me. 1517 01:34:30,583 --> 01:34:35,933 And in fact, that, that, that was very radical from a moral perspective. 1518 01:34:35,933 --> 01:34:38,293 Nobody else said, turn the other cheek. 1519 01:34:38,323 --> 01:34:38,873 It was, yeah. 1520 01:34:39,408 --> 01:34:40,708 Smite your enemies. 1521 01:34:40,728 --> 01:34:42,358 And that, that was the moral. 1522 01:34:42,628 --> 01:34:47,658 And, and from your perspective, I, I suppose that, uh, from sort of like 1523 01:34:47,658 --> 01:34:51,788 an evolutionary perspective, turning the other cheek would make zero sense. 1524 01:34:51,838 --> 01:34:58,398 Yet, that is very much something that is, uh, a part of the 1525 01:34:58,398 --> 01:35:00,278 morality that we have today. 1526 01:35:00,538 --> 01:35:03,768 And I suspect that you follow a lot of it without even realizing it. 1527 01:35:04,078 --> 01:35:05,088 Recognizing it, right? 1528 01:35:05,098 --> 01:35:10,248 Like, you, you, you try to, um, uh, you know, uh, you, you try to 1529 01:35:10,248 --> 01:35:14,898 treat other people well, even if they might treat you very badly, 1530 01:35:14,988 --> 01:35:17,428 uh, or have treated you badly, um, 1531 01:35:17,743 --> 01:35:18,133 yeah. 1532 01:35:18,593 --> 01:35:18,773 I, 1533 01:35:18,828 --> 01:35:22,518 mean, in a sense, it's a, it's, it's, it's a part of our sort of 1534 01:35:22,518 --> 01:35:25,348 like, uh, societal milieu, right? 1535 01:35:25,348 --> 01:35:28,738 Like, the, the, the moral waters that we swim in are more or 1536 01:35:28,738 --> 01:35:30,248 less Christian in many ways. 1537 01:35:30,268 --> 01:35:34,103 I, I'm just, Asking, I guess, as a Christian, if it's not, if you're 1538 01:35:34,103 --> 01:35:38,103 not Christian and you're swimming in Christian moral waters, well, 1539 01:35:38,263 --> 01:35:40,153 how do you, how do you define 1540 01:35:40,563 --> 01:35:45,303 well you call, you call them Christian moral waters, but I think they pre, I, 1541 01:35:45,403 --> 01:35:49,723 I think they preceded Christianity, and that Christianity sort of hijacked them. 1542 01:35:50,393 --> 01:35:52,883 Like, that's historically inaccurate. 1543 01:35:52,893 --> 01:35:53,053 I 1544 01:35:53,258 --> 01:35:54,528 Let me give you some receipts. 1545 01:35:54,528 --> 01:35:55,528 Let me give you some receipts. 1546 01:35:55,748 --> 01:35:56,818 I'm in with some backup. 1547 01:35:56,818 --> 01:36:01,648 This golden rule, the reciprocity maxim, so to say, there is evidence for 1548 01:36:01,648 --> 01:36:03,888 that in ancient Egypt, ancient India, 1549 01:36:04,043 --> 01:36:08,113 there's Confucius said it before him too, but I mean, that's a particular rule, but 1550 01:36:08,383 --> 01:36:13,083 I'm talking about the dignity of human beings, like, uh, you know, like, uh, 1551 01:36:13,823 --> 01:36:18,293 the, the fact that every human being has value or that, uh, like that, that's a 1552 01:36:18,293 --> 01:36:23,863 completely new concept as of Christianity, because every other culture, it was, 1553 01:36:24,153 --> 01:36:25,873 It was fine to go attack your enemies. 1554 01:36:25,873 --> 01:36:27,133 It was fine to go kill them. 1555 01:36:27,153 --> 01:36:32,153 It was fine to go, um, you know, sacrifice a baby or do whatever. 1556 01:36:32,173 --> 01:36:36,923 Like, it was, it was very new and it was radical for that reason. 1557 01:36:36,993 --> 01:36:41,263 And I would submit to you that that, that is something that is very much a part of 1558 01:36:41,263 --> 01:36:42,823 the moral waters that we're swimming in. 1559 01:36:43,163 --> 01:36:47,363 Um, and it is, it was an innovation, uh, in many ways. 1560 01:36:47,758 --> 01:36:52,528 But, uh, and maybe you can argue that it, it, it was like, it evolved at that 1561 01:36:52,528 --> 01:36:56,288 point or something like that, but I, I don't see any evidence that it was. 1562 01:36:56,813 --> 01:37:01,223 Something that, uh, you know, was taken for granted beforehand. 1563 01:37:01,468 --> 01:37:05,508 We need to, we need to end the debate here, I think, and, and move 1564 01:37:05,518 --> 01:37:09,578 on with the pod, because uh, I, I, I mean, as much as, as much as, uh, 1565 01:37:10,248 --> 01:37:12,558 It's, it's, it's fun, but you know, like I get 1566 01:37:12,588 --> 01:37:12,798 Yeah. 1567 01:37:12,798 --> 01:37:13,098 Yeah. 1568 01:37:13,338 --> 01:37:17,328 As much as I love this, Jimmy, I think for the quality for our listeners, 1569 01:37:17,328 --> 01:37:19,248 we need to, uh, move on there. 1570 01:37:19,428 --> 01:37:23,328 And I'd like, I'd like to do a thing with you that I've, I do with a lot of, 1571 01:37:23,478 --> 01:37:29,858 uh, Christian Bitcoiners I meet, so, so I'm gonna tell you seven uh, statements. 1572 01:37:30,513 --> 01:37:37,603 And, uh, you, you tell me whether you agree or don't agree to them, okay? 1573 01:37:39,073 --> 01:37:39,563 Okay. 1574 01:37:39,943 --> 01:37:43,773 One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all 1575 01:37:43,793 --> 01:37:45,753 creatures in accordance with reason. 1576 01:37:46,611 --> 01:37:52,291 I mean, depends on what you mean by reason, like, like, like with logical 1577 01:37:52,331 --> 01:37:54,121 consistency or something like that. 1578 01:37:54,121 --> 01:37:54,841 Is that what you mean? 1579 01:37:54,841 --> 01:37:55,981 Or what, what do you mean 1580 01:37:56,006 --> 01:38:00,226 Now, I'm not trying, I'm not putting any value into this because, like, 1581 01:38:00,986 --> 01:38:02,806 it's just a thought experiment here. 1582 01:38:02,856 --> 01:38:06,606 So, like, uh, one should strive to, like, do you agree or do you disagree 1583 01:38:06,606 --> 01:38:08,326 or do you agree to some extent? 1584 01:38:08,776 --> 01:38:13,096 Think of it as one of those, you know, magazine, stupid, 1585 01:38:13,776 --> 01:38:17,706 Well, I like the, the definition kind of matters 'cause like, uh, 1586 01:38:17,706 --> 01:38:21,936 when, when a lot of what the, this is just from my experience when, 1587 01:38:21,936 --> 01:38:26,486 when a lot of people say, or when, when a lot of atheists say by reason. 1588 01:38:26,486 --> 01:38:30,176 It's, uh, you know, like you're subscribing to the 1589 01:38:30,176 --> 01:38:32,096 logic that I've already made. 1590 01:38:32,096 --> 01:38:36,926 And, uh, if you don't agree, then you're not like by re like it's, 1591 01:38:36,926 --> 01:38:38,846 it's the particular reasoning that. 1592 01:38:39,326 --> 01:38:43,696 You have versus, like, I think it's internally, like, if you're talking about 1593 01:38:43,706 --> 01:38:49,096 internal consistency, absolutely, but like, if it's consistency with what, you 1594 01:38:49,096 --> 01:38:53,896 know, you happen to believe or something like, or, uh, you know, to what society 1595 01:38:53,896 --> 01:39:00,106 believes or something like that, then it, that, that that, that, that's why 1596 01:39:00,106 --> 01:39:01,876 I'm a little hesitant on answering this. 1597 01:39:02,556 --> 01:39:06,906 yes, good answer, that's what I would have answered as well, I think, because 1598 01:39:06,906 --> 01:39:11,376 I think in accordance with reason, well, reason according to whom, like that, 1599 01:39:11,676 --> 01:39:13,476 reason is a very dangerous word there. 1600 01:39:13,806 --> 01:39:18,196 Okay, so number two, the struggle for justice is an ongoing and 1601 01:39:18,196 --> 01:39:21,846 necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions. 1602 01:39:22,761 --> 01:39:26,381 Yes, but once again, I think you need a good definition of justice to make 1603 01:39:26,381 --> 01:39:32,901 that work, uh, because, uh, justice is a very loaded moral term and it's, 1604 01:39:32,931 --> 01:39:36,241 uh, you know, what, what, what is right or wrong and stuff like that. 1605 01:39:36,241 --> 01:39:40,191 And if you, if you take natural law or justice according to 1606 01:39:40,191 --> 01:39:41,361 natural law, I would agree. 1607 01:39:41,771 --> 01:39:46,841 If it's justice according to the laws of, you know, the, of the 1608 01:39:46,841 --> 01:39:48,441 United States of America, I wouldn't 1609 01:39:49,209 --> 01:39:50,459 Okay, three. 1610 01:39:51,089 --> 01:39:56,569 One's body is inviolable, subject to one's own will alone. 1611 01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:00,720 disagree. 1612 01:40:02,585 --> 01:40:03,145 Okay? 1613 01:40:04,405 --> 01:40:06,785 So who else's will is it? 1614 01:40:07,695 --> 01:40:10,115 Like, who else gets to decide over your body? 1615 01:40:10,125 --> 01:40:11,990 This is basically property rights, isn't it? 1616 01:40:13,220 --> 01:40:20,070 Uh, well, so, one's, say, say that exactly again. 1617 01:40:20,570 --> 01:40:23,760 Property, in a Rothbardian sense, uh, property rights is just an 1618 01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:26,470 extension of that, the notion that you own your own body. 1619 01:40:26,930 --> 01:40:27,940 So, the, you're, 1620 01:40:28,420 --> 01:40:31,530 I, I, I, I, from a practical perspective, I agree. 1621 01:40:31,540 --> 01:40:33,050 From a spiritual perspective, I don't. 1622 01:40:34,080 --> 01:40:35,730 because it's God's body. 1623 01:40:36,650 --> 01:40:37,070 Yeah. 1624 01:40:37,160 --> 01:40:38,170 Okay, oh, 1625 01:40:38,300 --> 01:40:40,200 your, your body is a temple of God. 1626 01:40:40,200 --> 01:40:40,470 Yeah. 1627 01:40:41,740 --> 01:40:45,920 four, uh, The freedoms of others should be respected, 1628 01:40:46,170 --> 01:40:48,070 including the freedom to offend. 1629 01:40:48,450 --> 01:40:51,540 To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of 1630 01:40:51,540 --> 01:40:53,640 another is to forego one's own. 1631 01:40:56,010 --> 01:40:57,280 To willfully... 1632 01:40:59,965 --> 01:41:00,965 What was the word again? 1633 01:41:00,985 --> 01:41:01,975 To willfully what? 1634 01:41:02,240 --> 01:41:03,080 I'll do it again. 1635 01:41:03,140 --> 01:41:06,050 The freedoms of others should be respected, including 1636 01:41:06,050 --> 01:41:07,350 the freedom to offend. 1637 01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:11,100 To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of 1638 01:41:11,100 --> 01:41:13,330 another is to forego one's own. 1639 01:41:14,094 --> 01:41:17,954 Yeah, this again has that word unjust in there. 1640 01:41:18,174 --> 01:41:20,284 And that's the word I was tripping over. 1641 01:41:20,754 --> 01:41:24,324 If it's in alignment with natural law, if that's the justice that you're 1642 01:41:24,324 --> 01:41:25,664 talking about, yeah, absolutely. 1643 01:41:25,664 --> 01:41:28,104 If it's, if it's some state... 1644 01:41:28,559 --> 01:41:33,379 Law, like if it's another definition of justice, then no, like, if it's like, 1645 01:41:33,419 --> 01:41:36,999 you know, based on the laws of the United States or something like that, then 1646 01:41:37,269 --> 01:41:41,899 Now, I think, I think, I haven't done my research here, but I think this is 1647 01:41:42,229 --> 01:41:44,299 about natural law to a large extent. 1648 01:41:44,339 --> 01:41:46,019 I think that's what it means by justice. 1649 01:41:47,099 --> 01:41:47,359 yeah. 1650 01:41:47,359 --> 01:41:52,189 And this, like, because there are like many philosophies of justice. 1651 01:41:52,189 --> 01:41:56,649 It's, uh, you know, whatever the state says, which is a very sort of like, 1652 01:41:57,819 --> 01:42:04,429 statist, positivist kind of, um, uh, you know, assertion, uh, and, you know, 1653 01:42:04,439 --> 01:42:06,109 that that's how they define justice. 1654 01:42:06,149 --> 01:42:06,429 So. 1655 01:42:06,859 --> 01:42:10,349 You have to be kind of careful there, but yeah, under natural 1656 01:42:10,349 --> 01:42:11,139 law, I think that would 1657 01:42:11,219 --> 01:42:14,839 So you agree with the statement, but maybe not with the wording, because 1658 01:42:14,839 --> 01:42:16,759 you find the word unjustly to be 1659 01:42:16,979 --> 01:42:21,949 you, it's always tricky with these, for these like philosophical things, because 1660 01:42:21,959 --> 01:42:27,779 it, like, it matters a whole lot what each word means, and You know, like, 1661 01:42:27,989 --> 01:42:33,569 from a particular perspective, it's like, okay, that, like, I would definitely 1662 01:42:33,569 --> 01:42:38,139 agree in some cases, in others it, like, doesn't make any sense to me because 1663 01:42:38,139 --> 01:42:42,199 it's, uh, you know, somebody alters the definition so you agree with it, you know. 1664 01:42:42,929 --> 01:42:44,769 You just kind of have to be careful there, yeah. 1665 01:42:45,569 --> 01:42:47,799 Yeah, I agree with that, definitely. 1666 01:42:48,119 --> 01:42:48,609 Uh... 1667 01:42:49,519 --> 01:42:54,929 Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. 1668 01:42:55,339 --> 01:43:01,439 One should take care to never distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs. 1669 01:43:03,039 --> 01:43:08,779 Uh, the second part I agree with, I don't think that covers all belief, so I 1670 01:43:08,789 --> 01:43:10,449 don't think I agree with the first part. 1671 01:43:11,149 --> 01:43:13,289 Okay, people are fallible. 1672 01:43:13,479 --> 01:43:18,219 If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve 1673 01:43:18,249 --> 01:43:20,109 any harm that might have been caused. 1674 01:43:21,270 --> 01:43:22,880 I believe that as a Christian, yeah. 1675 01:43:23,480 --> 01:43:28,710 Like, I think it would be harder for other people to justify that, but yeah, sure. 1676 01:43:29,519 --> 01:43:32,029 Okay, and the last, uh, the last... 1677 01:43:32,524 --> 01:43:36,364 The thing here is every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire 1678 01:43:36,364 --> 01:43:37,954 nobility in action and thought. 1679 01:43:38,284 --> 01:43:41,634 The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail 1680 01:43:41,634 --> 01:43:43,344 over the written or spoken word. 1681 01:43:44,479 --> 01:43:47,689 Yeah, though there are too many words that are too ambiguous 1682 01:43:47,689 --> 01:43:49,389 there for me to comment, but 1683 01:43:49,509 --> 01:43:55,079 now come, okay, this is, this is just a silly experiment because I'd like 1684 01:43:55,079 --> 01:43:56,719 you, for you to guess what this was. 1685 01:43:56,929 --> 01:43:58,019 What was these 1686 01:43:58,119 --> 01:43:59,684 don't know what was it. 1687 01:44:00,814 --> 01:44:04,424 And maybe like some humanist tract or something like that, I'm guessing 1688 01:44:04,424 --> 01:44:05,674 something from the alignment. 1689 01:44:05,714 --> 01:44:06,154 I don't know. 1690 01:44:07,029 --> 01:44:10,299 The Seven Tenets of Satanism by Anton LaVey. 1691 01:44:13,724 --> 01:44:16,364 Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's, uh, yeah. 1692 01:44:16,624 --> 01:44:17,494 I, I don't know. 1693 01:44:17,494 --> 01:44:21,064 I don't even, I don't even know if I'm trying to make a point here or anything. 1694 01:44:21,064 --> 01:44:27,484 I just, if there is a point that it's, that I think, uh, I, I agree 1695 01:44:27,484 --> 01:44:31,234 with your words are important because with two fluffy words, you 1696 01:44:31,234 --> 01:44:34,644 could sort of agree with everything. 1697 01:44:34,649 --> 01:44:38,604 If, if, uh, if that's the case, if the words are fluffy enough and, and, 1698 01:44:38,604 --> 01:44:44,064 uh, You could, you, I, I say you could probably map Bitcoin onto these seven 1699 01:44:44,074 --> 01:44:48,834 tenets pretty easily and say that they're sort of in line with that if you just, 1700 01:44:48,954 --> 01:44:54,781 you know, interpret the words in a way that it's, that suits that purpose. 1701 01:44:55,111 --> 01:44:56,581 Uh, so, uh, yeah. 1702 01:44:57,321 --> 01:45:03,391 Well, I mean, the thing is, like, words are, in many ways, in those kinds 1703 01:45:03,391 --> 01:45:05,551 of things, often very meaningless. 1704 01:45:05,551 --> 01:45:11,816 I, I think, um, I was watching like a Scalia congressional thing, or he was 1705 01:45:11,816 --> 01:45:15,626 like talking to some law students a long time ago, and he was saying, have 1706 01:45:15,626 --> 01:45:19,606 you read the Bill of Rights for like some of these communist countries? 1707 01:45:20,606 --> 01:45:25,046 And, uh, and he was like, you read them, they're better than 1708 01:45:25,046 --> 01:45:26,406 our Bill of Rights, right? 1709 01:45:26,416 --> 01:45:31,006 Like, it guarantees freedom of speech and freedom of this and freedom of that. 1710 01:45:31,236 --> 01:45:35,946 It's better, like, for a lot of these, like, authoritarian communist countries. 1711 01:45:36,776 --> 01:45:37,716 So what's the difference? 1712 01:45:38,266 --> 01:45:40,996 Why is it that we have a better system than they do? 1713 01:45:41,026 --> 01:45:42,816 Why do they have so much oppression? 1714 01:45:43,366 --> 01:45:46,236 Because the words mean something. 1715 01:45:46,506 --> 01:45:50,626 The more the words actually mean something, the more you're likely to 1716 01:45:50,626 --> 01:45:55,146 be aligned with a prosperous society. 1717 01:45:55,146 --> 01:45:58,136 So, in a sense, like, I don't... 1718 01:45:58,451 --> 01:46:02,001 put much stock in something like the seven tenets of Satanism 1719 01:46:02,001 --> 01:46:04,261 because we know what they do, right? 1720 01:46:04,261 --> 01:46:09,941 Like their actions in many ways belie whatever it is that they say they do. 1721 01:46:10,021 --> 01:46:16,151 In fact, like, you can go look at, like, the, um, a lot of the tenets of, like, 1722 01:46:16,161 --> 01:46:18,201 some very violent organizations and stuff. 1723 01:46:18,211 --> 01:46:22,901 I'm sure you could go to, like, Some criminal mafia organization. 1724 01:46:23,251 --> 01:46:26,561 But that, that, that's, that's sort of like a, uh, an 1725 01:46:26,561 --> 01:46:28,311 expression of fiat to me, right? 1726 01:46:28,641 --> 01:46:32,411 Because in a fiat world, the words don't mean anything. 1727 01:46:32,421 --> 01:46:35,691 It's, it's, it's just sort of like reality by decree. 1728 01:46:36,181 --> 01:46:39,931 And that, that's where I think you get into a lot of trouble. 1729 01:46:39,931 --> 01:46:45,666 And this is why I say that fiat is an ATS money because It's not in alignment 1730 01:46:45,676 --> 01:46:50,796 with reality, whereas, you know, uh, Bitcoin is in alignment with reality, 1731 01:46:50,796 --> 01:46:55,106 with natural law, and that, that's what makes it so effective, and that, that's 1732 01:46:55,106 --> 01:47:01,896 what makes it, uh, so good for commerce and for, uh, storing value and all of 1733 01:47:01,896 --> 01:47:06,176 these things, because it's in alignment with reality instead of suspending 1734 01:47:06,176 --> 01:47:10,871 reality, and what fiat lets you do, as I point out in this book, is that it lets 1735 01:47:10,871 --> 01:47:12,541 you suspend reality for a long time. 1736 01:47:12,621 --> 01:47:17,531 And under zero interest rates, yeah, you can, you can, all 1737 01:47:17,531 --> 01:47:18,901 kinds of things can survive. 1738 01:47:19,441 --> 01:47:25,181 It's, it's only when reality reasserts itself, uh, that we find out that, uh, 1739 01:47:25,181 --> 01:47:26,791 you know, all of this was for naught. 1740 01:47:27,271 --> 01:47:30,921 Um, and we're kind of seeing that now even as the interest rates rise, because 1741 01:47:30,921 --> 01:47:32,631 reality is kind of rushing back in. 1742 01:47:33,001 --> 01:47:35,961 Like all these companies that were on zero interest rates, like, 1743 01:47:36,001 --> 01:47:37,131 they're not going to survive. 1744 01:47:37,221 --> 01:47:41,461 And there was a lot of subsidization of a lot of foolish stuff. 1745 01:47:41,941 --> 01:47:45,221 Uh, from, from this suspension of reality or wishing that 1746 01:47:45,221 --> 01:47:46,381 reality could be different. 1747 01:47:46,421 --> 01:47:51,201 Um, and that, that's where I think Bitcoin is very strong is that 1748 01:47:51,201 --> 01:47:52,651 it's an alignment with reality. 1749 01:47:52,651 --> 01:47:54,241 There's no suspension of reality. 1750 01:47:55,041 --> 01:47:59,871 And we can, we can go back to natural law market dynamics, uh, which I think 1751 01:47:59,881 --> 01:48:05,501 ultimately build up civilization in a really awesome way, um, that we've 1752 01:48:05,501 --> 01:48:07,701 been missing for the last 50 years. 1753 01:48:08,647 --> 01:48:09,157 to that. 1754 01:48:09,247 --> 01:48:13,957 And, uh, uh, I, I mean the, I look, I think this is the part where I say, 1755 01:48:14,167 --> 01:48:20,227 what do you think about the Bitcoin as, uh, atheist money or Christian 1756 01:48:20,227 --> 01:48:21,967 money and fiat atheist money? 1757 01:48:22,237 --> 01:48:26,227 Comment in the comment section below, and don't forget to like, subscribe. 1758 01:48:26,227 --> 01:48:28,717 Click the bell for notifications and brush your teeth. 1759 01:48:32,022 --> 01:48:32,412 perfect. 1760 01:48:32,522 --> 01:48:36,682 And, uh, the both of you are, we're ending this conversation on a good note, right? 1761 01:48:36,692 --> 01:48:38,432 Everyone's still friends, right? 1762 01:48:38,577 --> 01:48:39,207 Of course, 1763 01:48:39,737 --> 01:48:40,637 Absolutely. 1764 01:48:40,637 --> 01:48:42,947 I absolutely love this, Jimmy. 1765 01:48:43,307 --> 01:48:47,517 yeah, I don't get offended very easily, just so you know, so yeah. 1766 01:48:47,517 --> 01:48:48,047 A lot of 1767 01:48:49,487 --> 01:48:52,137 And we're very much alike like that, I think. 1768 01:48:52,717 --> 01:48:55,337 So, yeah, I love these debates. 1769 01:48:55,427 --> 01:48:56,597 bitcoiners are. 1770 01:48:57,137 --> 01:49:01,897 I don't think you can survive in the public realm without like some 1771 01:49:01,957 --> 01:49:03,897 serious criticism coming your way. 1772 01:49:04,107 --> 01:49:04,837 So yeah. 1773 01:49:04,967 --> 01:49:09,547 you need, you need a panther skin, sort of. 1774 01:49:09,727 --> 01:49:10,217 what you call it? 1775 01:49:10,227 --> 01:49:13,017 We call it like elephant hide or something like that. 1776 01:49:13,027 --> 01:49:13,277 Yeah. 1777 01:49:13,407 --> 01:49:14,007 Yeah, yeah. 1778 01:49:15,807 --> 01:49:19,507 Grasping for words there, but I hope to see you in real life 1779 01:49:19,877 --> 01:49:21,577 soon, Jimmy, so that we can... 1780 01:49:21,597 --> 01:49:23,897 Are you going to be at Pacific or Amsterdam? 1781 01:49:24,687 --> 01:49:26,847 Amsterdam, I'll be in Amsterdam, so I'll see you there. 1782 01:49:26,937 --> 01:49:27,397 Uh, 1783 01:49:27,657 --> 01:49:28,487 so I'll see you there. 1784 01:49:28,517 --> 01:49:30,727 Um, I'm going to Lugano as well, but yeah. 1785 01:49:30,907 --> 01:49:33,997 yeah, yeah, I'm going to Lugano as well, so I'll see you in Amsterdam 1786 01:49:34,007 --> 01:49:37,547 and Lugano, and there might be some stuff for us there to do. 1787 01:49:37,547 --> 01:49:39,277 I'm not going to say more than that. 1788 01:49:39,352 --> 01:49:40,222 But, uh, Uhhuh, 1789 01:49:40,497 --> 01:49:40,967 Okay. 1790 01:49:40,967 --> 01:49:45,097 Well, I'll, I'll, I'll get you a book when, uh, when I'm in Amsterdam for sure. 1791 01:49:45,097 --> 01:49:45,377 So. 1792 01:49:45,612 --> 01:49:45,802 Yeah, 1793 01:49:45,952 --> 01:49:46,642 fantastic. 1794 01:49:46,672 --> 01:49:49,162 And I'll, I'll, uh, bring Axiology book for you. 1795 01:49:49,872 --> 01:49:50,762 okay, sounds good. 1796 01:49:51,322 --> 01:49:52,732 yeah, I wrote a book of ology. 1797 01:49:53,002 --> 01:49:54,232 Maybe, maybe you don't know. 1798 01:49:54,237 --> 01:49:58,192 But I, I wrote a little short introductory book on ology, and 1799 01:49:58,362 --> 01:50:03,732 like you had one last year at Baltic Honey Badger, and I think I might 1800 01:50:03,732 --> 01:50:06,972 have one, some, actually, give me a, give me a sec, I might have it. 1801 01:50:07,622 --> 01:50:08,032 Let me just 1802 01:50:08,671 --> 01:50:10,531 I think that's the everything Divided book. 1803 01:50:10,861 --> 01:50:14,621 Uh, if it was from last year, because I wrote this last winter. 1804 01:50:14,741 --> 01:50:16,541 it's this one, yeah, there you go. 1805 01:50:16,681 --> 01:50:19,571 I have this one from the Baltic Honey Badger last year, and 1806 01:50:20,046 --> 01:50:20,746 Ah, nice. 1807 01:50:21,851 --> 01:50:26,251 oh, there you go, yeah, it was signed, yeah, there you go. 1808 01:50:26,281 --> 01:50:29,391 All right, but yeah, praxeology is the, is the new one, huh? 1809 01:50:30,246 --> 01:50:31,426 Yeah, and it's very short. 1810 01:50:32,356 --> 01:50:35,956 And it's me trying to condense Mises into 130 pages. 1811 01:50:36,486 --> 01:50:39,026 And I know that might make you giggle. 1812 01:50:40,391 --> 01:50:40,661 Well, 1813 01:50:40,786 --> 01:50:42,146 I did my best. 1814 01:50:42,791 --> 01:50:45,801 maybe I can go read it and have you on my podcast or something. 1815 01:50:46,816 --> 01:50:48,456 I'd love to come on and talk about it. 1816 01:50:48,656 --> 01:50:49,196 No audiobooks? 1817 01:50:49,581 --> 01:50:49,831 Yeah. 1818 01:50:49,831 --> 01:50:53,161 Um, I mean, send me a PDF or something and I'll, I'll try to read it. 1819 01:50:53,171 --> 01:50:56,541 Um, I don't know if I can do it before I get to Amsterdam. 1820 01:50:56,541 --> 01:50:59,791 So maybe, maybe I should just wait, but, uh, but I, I read 1821 01:50:59,791 --> 01:51:01,111 everything on the Kindle anyway. 1822 01:51:01,151 --> 01:51:04,066 So, um, Yeah, let's, uh, let's figure something out. 1823 01:51:07,046 --> 01:51:14,876 Um, I, like, I, I need to be like, because I take a lot of notes and stuff like that, 1824 01:51:14,881 --> 01:51:17,606 I, I need to be, I can't do it on audio. 1825 01:51:17,666 --> 01:51:25,456 Like, like the, like the, the reason I read books is, is to get ideas and I 1826 01:51:25,456 --> 01:51:28,156 need to be like, interacting with it. 1827 01:51:28,161 --> 01:51:31,086 So, Yeah, I don't really do audio. 1828 01:51:31,276 --> 01:51:31,636 Yeah. 1829 01:51:32,301 --> 01:51:34,361 Jimmy, please show your stuff one last time. 1830 01:51:34,726 --> 01:51:36,116 Yes, where can we find you? 1831 01:51:37,116 --> 01:51:39,956 Uh, at Jimmy Song on Twitter. 1832 01:51:39,976 --> 01:51:41,716 Um, I have a newsletter, jimmysong. 1833 01:51:41,716 --> 01:51:43,016 substack. 1834 01:51:43,046 --> 01:51:44,706 com, uh, Bitcoin Tech Talk. 1835 01:51:45,106 --> 01:51:51,916 Um, see, I, I have a link tree, I think, in my Twitter bio, or ex bio, I guess now. 1836 01:51:51,946 --> 01:51:53,956 Uh, so go check that out. 1837 01:51:54,486 --> 01:51:57,016 You can go find the book on fiatruinseverything. 1838 01:51:57,036 --> 01:51:59,526 com and you can order from Amazon. 1839 01:51:59,526 --> 01:52:03,426 You can order from Bitcoin Magazine, or you can get a signed copy from 1840 01:52:03,426 --> 01:52:04,846 me if you're in North America. 1841 01:52:04,856 --> 01:52:07,696 So yeah, please, uh, please order. 1842 01:52:07,696 --> 01:52:08,616 You can pay in Bitcoin. 1843 01:52:08,626 --> 01:52:09,716 You can pay in dollars, whatever. 1844 01:52:09,746 --> 01:52:11,226 So it's all, all available. 1845 01:52:12,596 --> 01:52:13,396 Excellent. 1846 01:52:13,666 --> 01:52:15,836 Jimmy, thank you so much for doing this. 1847 01:52:15,866 --> 01:52:17,356 We appreciate you a lot. 1848 01:52:17,426 --> 01:52:21,886 You're an absolute OG in the space and it's a privilege to have you on. 1849 01:52:22,366 --> 01:52:25,266 And send my regards to your beautiful family and I wish 1850 01:52:25,266 --> 01:52:26,546 you all the best in the future. 1851 01:52:27,326 --> 01:52:27,846 All right. 1852 01:52:27,846 --> 01:52:30,056 Well, I look forward to seeing you in Amsterdam. 1853 01:52:30,086 --> 01:52:32,716 Let's, uh, let's have some fun there too. 1854 01:52:33,426 --> 01:52:33,676 Yep. 1855 01:52:34,496 --> 01:52:36,026 Let's go LFG. 1856 01:52:36,951 --> 01:52:38,481 This has been the Freedom Footprint Show. 1857 01:52:38,591 --> 01:52:39,501 Thanks for listening. 1858 01:52:40,015 --> 01:52:40,275 All right. 1859 01:52:40,285 --> 01:52:42,175 You're going to need some editing on that one, huh? 1860 01:52:42,559 --> 01:52:44,579 So, what did you think of that? 1861 01:52:45,089 --> 01:52:47,059 It was quite the debate between Jimmy and Knut. 1862 01:52:47,579 --> 01:52:49,559 We may have to continue that one in the future. 1863 01:52:50,319 --> 01:52:51,319 What was your favorite moment? 1864 01:52:51,329 --> 01:52:52,009 Let us know. 1865 01:52:52,429 --> 01:52:55,379 You can send us a boostergram on Fountain, leave us a comment on YouTube, 1866 01:52:55,389 --> 01:52:57,259 or get in touch on Nostr or Twitter. 1867 01:52:57,879 --> 01:52:59,979 If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like the episode 1868 01:52:59,979 --> 01:53:01,109 and subscribe to the channel. 1869 01:53:01,669 --> 01:53:05,369 Our show's sponsors are Amber App, Wasabi Wallet, Orange Pill 1870 01:53:05,369 --> 01:53:07,309 App, The Bitcoin Way, and Geyser. 1871 01:53:07,649 --> 01:53:08,849 Check them out in the description. 1872 01:53:09,679 --> 01:53:10,549 That's all for now. 1873 01:53:10,879 --> 01:53:13,489 See you next time, and thanks for listening.