FFS100 - Hodlonaut

Intro

Hodlonaut: Like, [00:00:00] if your price isn't your life, then you can be bought. if you don't own your integrity above the monetary price on it, then you don't own it at all.

And then you can be bought. It's just about finding the price. But for some people, integrity trumps everything. just because that's how they find purpose and meaning in the world, personally, I can't think of any worse thing than not respecting myself or not, like, living up to what I demand from myself or from others. once you legitimize forcefully.

Restricting people's freedom over a narrative of risk. It's game over because that's, that's a slide that it never stops midway. It stops at complete prison world. I think that that was also a good thing that more people probably have made their observations and reflections on the dynamic between freedom and, uh, and safety.

[00:01:00]

[00:02:00]

Welcoming Hodlonaut

Luke: hodlonaut, welcome to the Freedom Footprint show for our special hundredth episode. Thanks a lot for joining us.

Hodlonaut: Thank you guys, looking forward to chatting.

Knut: Now just to be clear, this, this man over here, uh, or this cat over here, is a, uh, an entity who claims to be Hodlonaut, the infamous Mr. Cat. Uh, as far as I know, there's no, like, real evidence that he [00:03:00] is, or isn't. Uh, so, so, are you planning on, like, uh, going to court with that, and, and figuring out what the actual truth about you being Hodlonaut really is?

Hodlonaut: I don't see any way out of it, to be honest, I mean, the truth. Must come out. So yeah,

Knut: Yeah, it's, it's not as simple as just signing a bunch of, uh, private keys, or signing a message, uh, like, uh, that would be too easy, right? You need, like, years in court to finally

Hodlonaut: yeah, very different steps to this process, you know, including like thesis samples and, uh, stuff like that. So it's, yeah, it'll be a process.

Knut: And, uh, there, there's so many programs you have to have in order to, you know, uh, retroactively, uh, make the correct documents to prove that something happened 10 years ago.

Hodlonaut: Exactly. It's, uh, it's, it's a lot of work.

Knut: Proof of work. Yeah. Yeah.

Hodlonaut: I think, I think we will end up in a good [00:04:00] place.

Knut: I think so too. .

We Are All Satoshi Except...

Knut: Well, in all, in all serious, dear Mr. Kat. Um, I, I know you're not a, a vengeful spirit, but how do you feel now that the, uh, that we. Are actually, provably, all Satoshi, except one person on earth.

Hodlonaut: I mean, that's been my truth and your truth and all of my friends truth for a long time. So, I don't really feel much different, you know, nothing changed, uh, in regards to facts. But, uh, of course, it's, uh, it's a huge, joy, I would say, to see, uh, Truth establishing itself outside of us who always knew and to see, you know, the, the tip of the dildo consequences starting to, you know, tease, tease a little bit.

Knut: it seldom arrives lubed, does it? That old

Hodlonaut: I think this one is going to be extra [00:05:00] unlooped.

Knut: Yeah, and I heard that that judge has ordered his funds frozen, which is like double hilarious, right?

Hodlonaut: Yeah, uh, it's, uh, it's, it sounds crazy. Worldwide freezing order on, on his assets. I think, I don't think it's often that a UK judge goes to that step, to be honest, I have no idea, like, how it will be executed and what type of power UK courts have internationally, probably significant, but it obviously underlines I don't know.

Quite a few things about Craig Wright, as the judge explicitly said in his freezing order judgment. So there will be nothing left to the imagination in regards of who and what Craig Wright is after we get the final written judgment [00:06:00] in a couple of weeks, hopefully. But, uh, yeah, it's, it's hilarious that the guy, you know, instantly after getting this unexpected, uh, verbal judgment from the bench saying that Craig is not Satoshi and so on, he immediately started, you know, to try to evade the UK with his, uh, remaining funds, uh, probably some pocket money he got from, from Calvin, uh, after Calvin got bored of funding all this shit.

Luke: Do you think you could give us a, uh, uh, for any of our listeners who aren't aware of some of the backstory, a short TLDR on, uh, all the backstory of this and, uh, how you got unfortunately involved?

Hodlonaut: Yeah, I can do a super short one because. I'm sure a lot of people are getting bored with this story, me including, uh, I do very much look forward to not talking about this shit anymore, but uh, as long as it's a thing, it's a thing, [00:07:00] and it's not, I mean, I can only control my own actions and I'm still in too active lawsuit, so very short summary in 2019 I tweeted that Craig Wright is a fraud.

And they decided to, uh, uh, go after me legally. They wanted me to apologize to Craig and, uh, say that he is Satoshi Nakamoto, or else they would dox me and, uh, take me to court. And, uh, I never, obviously, was willing to say that he is Satoshi Nakamoto. So, five years later now, uh, yesterday actually marked five year Anniversary to the day, uh, when I first received these threats.

Um, so it's been a really long fight in the justice system, so Norway and United Kingdom, and, uh, I've gotten to test my own stamina and, uh, I don't know my own, uh. Willingness to put my head on the chopping [00:08:00] block. Um, and, but most importantly, you know, it's been an amazing journey to see and feel all the support from Bitcoiners who helped me stand strong.

So I'm definitely, this has been another one of those kind of a blessing in disguise. I mean, it's not totally not a blessing to have five years of your life disrupted like this, but when you approach it stoically. There are blessings to be found on the road, and a lot of them, and I really, I feel better and stronger now than I did five years ago, so, happy.

Knut: Now, that's great to hear. Um, and, but this, this trial in the UK now where, where, uh, Craig was proven not to be Satoshi, uh, that had very little to do with you, right?

Hodlonaut: Yeah, my cases were libel cases, [00:09:00] are libel cases. I mean, to say they had nothing to do with me is like a truth with modifications, I guess, because Throughout the trial, my Norwegian trial against Greg was mentioned extensively. It was, I did a search in the skeleton closing arguments from COPA, and my case was referenced more than 70 times in the closing arguments. And, uh, you know, even in this written judgment from the judge yesterday, it was referred to Craig's conduct in my case. So it's, it, my case has definitely helped, you know, COPPA establish this web of lies and deceit and kind of forced Craig and his witnesses to, to contradict themselves several times.

So even though the case. My cases are still [00:10:00] ongoing after this. I will have to make them go away on my own. But, uh, yeah, I think, I think my efforts helped, uh, COPPA and that made me happy.

Knut: Yeah. And what does COPPA stand for?

Hodlonaut: Crypto Open Patent Alliance.

 It was formed, you know, to protect, uh, Bitcoin entities from, uh, hostile law fair based on patent trolling and shit, which, uh, was one of the strategies that, uh, Craig, uh, and m Chain were aiming for.

Knut: yeah. Uh, so. Yeah, I guess Craig's chances are, against you now, are practically zero, right?

Hodlonaut: it would seem so, it's, I mean, he's now declared. Basically reading the judge's judgments now is almost like reading my tweets from five years ago. So, I don't know. [00:11:00] Let's see what they can do. If they want to go forward in the courts, I'm going to be there. I don't know. I think it boils down to how much they want to harass me now.

I

Knut: Calvin Air, has he said anything at this point? Like what's his, uh, he's tired of paying him, you said? Like what, what indications do we have from, from that camp?

Hodlonaut: mean, this CEO, Kristian Agerhansen, who became a whistleblower last autumn, he has leaked a lot of emails, including one from Calvin to Craig, where Calvin basically said, you know, Craig, you're going to lose so badly. I'm pissed at you for losing so badly. I'm tired of wasting my children's inheritance on your wrecked lawsuits and I'm the only person standing between you and the soup kitchen, he wrote.

Uh, so he was pissed with Craig's lack of [00:12:00] success. Uh, but I found it funny that, you know, the day after Craig was deemed to be not Satoshi by the judge, Unexpectedly, because everyone was expecting a written judgment, but the judge basically said the evidence is so overwhelming that I basically, I can just give you these facts right now to do this not Satoshi.

And the day after, uh, Calvin announced on Twitter that, uh, he had been planning this, this trip for a long time. So now he was, you know, bye bye guys. I'm going on this trip, I've been planning it for a long time. So he disappeared from Twitter the day after that, and now he has some, some team tweeting for him.

I

Knut: Ah, what a, what a clusterfuck the whole thing is.

BSVers Trying to Rehabilitate

Knut: Uh, yeah, so I've seen, In the aftermath of this, when, when, um, when it was finally [00:13:00] quote unquote proven that Craig was not associated, which should have been obvious to so many people for such a long time, you've seen people from the BSV camp and from the BCH camp, uh, sort of, uh, coming out on Twitter now and saying, oh, I'm sorry I was wrong.

I was duped, and, uh, it wasn't my fault. Please let me back into the proper Bitcoin community. What's your reaction to that?

Hodlonaut: mean, I don't know. I don't hold many grudges, to be honest, there are certain people that I wanna see consequences being brought to, you know, the central players, but, uh, I mean, humans are generally able To get scammed very hard, and uh, they're also able to hold on to scam bags for a long time to not, you know, face the, face directors basically.

So, [00:14:00] I feel sorry for them. Many of these BSV people, and obviously this is a big part of why I tweeted so actively back in 2019 about this subject, because I wanted to warn people because I saw some people selling their BTC and buying into this BSV thing, which is really bad. So of course, a lot of people have lost everything.

BSV is down something like 98 percent against BTC from the tops. So, I don't know, sunk cost fallacy, the pain of realizing that you lost everything. I think that's what's been holding a lot of people in this cult until now, but I'm happy to see, like, the cult is really, seems to be imploding from the inside at this point.

Knut: Yeah, it reminds me of that Mark Twain quote, it's easier to fool a person than to convince them that they have been fooled. Uh, which is very much the [00:15:00] case here, I think.

Hodlonaut: That's a, that's a phenomenon that you see a lot in the, the crypto sphere so to say.

Knut: It's all that, right? It's, it's the scammers themselves, themselves, and then there are people who, uh, are hard to convince that they have been fooled.

Hodlonaut: Yes.

Plans for the Future

Knut: So, uh, like, like, do you have any plans for what's, what's, for you in the future? Like, uh, are you, are you making, uh, like, plans for what happens after your life is de ruined?

Hodlonaut: My life was never ruined and that's, uh, that's, I never gave them that, uh, win, you know? Uh, and I think, yeah, I mean, we've been hanging out throughout this journey, Knut, and you know that my spirits have never been broken, so.

Knut: No, no, you're my, you're my hero, man. I mean, uh, it's, uh, you're such a fucking great example to everyone here [00:16:00] in how to tackle things like this. And I didn't mean your life being ruined, but time was stolen from your life for a long time. Like, yeah, you have to give him that. He managed to steal your time.

Hodlonaut: He managed to, you know, uh, dictate which cards I was dealt at a certain point in my life, and I've been able, I had to just, you know, deal with those cards and play those cards as best as I could, but, um, I know, I understand your question, and, uh, I don't really have big ambitions of doing huge things in this, in this space, to be honest, you know, I, I, I love hanging out with my friends and my family and, uh, talking about being a part of the community.

Of course, I fully intend to continue that, but, I can't say I have these grand plans of, uh, doing wild things. I'll probably, you know, be sitting here calling out bullshit artists in five years, just like I've been doing. Uh, [00:17:00] I do have a job now in the Bitcoin space. I can show that briefly. I work for the Bitcoin advisor, helping people with the custody, helping people get their coins off exchanges.

So I will have more time to dedicate to work like that. Going forward, but mostly, you know, I will just, uh, enjoy life.

Knut: Yeah, we're, we just signed up for that, uh, me and Luke too, so we're, or, uh, quite a while back now. Uh, I mean, we're also Bitcoin advisors. We're all Bitcoin advisors here.

Hodlonaut: I didn't know that. So we are colleagues? Is that what you're saying?

Knut: We're colleagues. We are

Hodlonaut: Hey, awesome. Amazing.

Knut: It is awesome. And I guess, uh,

Hodlonaut: colleagues hanging around the water cooler right now.

Knut: it is. We're, we're around the water cooler here. Yeah. And, uh, uh, I mean, people will still be [00:18:00] wrong on the internet, right? So you do have that job as well.

Hodlonaut: Yeah. And, it has been extremely important and I 100 percent think it will continue to be important that people speak their mind in, uh, in Bitcoin. The meat, the meat space, the meat layer of Bitcoin is an integral part of Bitcoin, obviously. And we do need people to be brave and to stand up and say unpopular things and call out popular people, uh, slay heroes.

Because these meat space narratives, if the wrong shit takes hold, it can still harm Bitcoin, in my opinion. And just, you know, to have hundreds or thousands of cyber hornets continuously picking apart the small lies and the big lies, I think it's It's important in Bitcoin and it's important in the world [00:19:00] outside of Bitcoin.

So uh, yeah, and Bitcoiners are good at it and uh, I intend to continue speaking my mind at least as much as I can.

Knut: 100 percent yeah, that's, that's crucial and uh, yeah, that's one, one of the things that I fell in love with, with this space, uh, the, the ability to slay your heroes and speak your mind like that so many people had.

Return of Roger Ver

Knut: By the way, I saw, uh, Roger Veer showed up in my Twitter feed the other day. I mean, it's been a while, uh, do we expect the resurgence of other shitty shitcoin narratives now that, that Craig is gone?

I don't know.

Hodlonaut: I think so. I think, you know, like in the, almost like a metaphor for how terrible fashion ideas come back after everyone forgets how bad ideas they were. Yeah, this Roger Ware thing. What the fuck is that? What the fuck is [00:20:00] that? Now he's like being whitewashed into some kind of dude that, you know, he's such a crusader for freedom.

I see like Bitcoiners retweeting Roger Ware shit now. Uh, like how Roger Ware, Bitcoin was never a get quick, a get rich quick scheme. It was a get free quick scheme. Go fuck yourself, Roger Ware, you know. I vividly remember his attack on Bitcoin, and it was way more serious than what Craig Wright did.

managed to do. I think Bitcoin was actually under threat for real back in 17. And, uh, the methods that he and, uh, his side used were sinister as fuck and organized as fuck. And they were, they were funded like, you know, God knows how much money was lost in that attack. But, you know, to, to see people like, [00:21:00] uh, yeah, I'm not going to mention any names, but I, I just was, became aware of this today and I've seen certain people that I respected and that I would never think was this blind to history or, you know, it, it, it doesn't even make sense to me how they are giving Roger I'm A platform and basically joining this whole small blocker toxic Maxis is a problem, you know, we, we need to bring the big blockers back and bring their narratives back.

Like, what the fuck? It's, it annoys me.

Knut: and the block size was increased with SegWit. Like, the limit was

Hodlonaut: absolutely was, so the attack was, in some way, slightly successful.

Knut: Yeah. I think the only one I remember fighting for smaller blocks was, uh, Luke.

Hodlonaut: Mhm.

Knut: back in the day.

Luke: Not

Knut: Oh no, not that Luke, [00:22:00] another Luke

Luke: Even though I was told I looked like him multiple times on Madeira, that was

Knut: Yeah. You look like him. Yes. You look like him. That's what you do. Yeah.

Hodlonaut: Yeah. look, they look very similar.

Knut: Yes. You, you look minded. And, uh, and

Hodlonaut: Look, mate.

Knut: you're a lookalike.

Luke: seriously, the, the, the, the,

Schrödinger's JPEGs

Luke: with, uh, with, uh, with Luke though and everything, uh, him being the, the only one advocating, as you say, for smaller, Blocks, now is the, uh, basically Luke and Ocean Mining are now sort of at this forefront of, of, uh, the, the, this fight against, uh, as Knut likes to put it, Schrodinger's JPEGs, uh, you, you have any thoughts on, uh, this particular issue?

Hodlonaut: I absolutely do. I'm, I refrained from taking, when it comes to, you know, the, the filtering, uh, [00:23:00] question, uh, or as it's framed, you know, the censorship question from, from the other side, it's, it's felt to me a little bit like almost like it was bait, you know, that they wanted to bait people into starting to filter out this shit instead of letting it die organically It was and is extremely inorganic.

The moment, if you know, a huge part of the Bitcoin ecosystem started filtering this bullshit, it would be an amazing way to divide. Because they would have, if not a fully, fully fleshed out, uh, argument. They would have an argument that would land with a lot of people. This is censorship, this is anti Bitcoin, you know.

Uh, look at these people. It would be a very powerful way to split the community further. And so, so I kind of [00:24:00] prefer to take the stance that this, this is bad faith. This is, in my opinion, probably funded. You know, this mass printing of JPEGs, but, uh, I think it's not a good idea to mount To try to, you know, counter it too forcefully, I think it will go away on its own.

And there's also, you know, the truth that the future will bring very high on chain fees. That's, that's not the question. So we have to start digesting that reality too. And if it, it doesn't mean it's okay to prematurely introduce it, but Uh, yeah, I'm, I'm, I appreciate that that ocean mining was spun up and that they do what they do, but I also appreciate that they have remained kind of like a niche part of the whole, [00:25:00] uh, ecosystem.

Knut: I almost totally agree to this. I, I, I also think that the whole debate is very manufactured and very, it's, it's a whole, the whole narrative that there is a, a war at all, and that there is, uh, two different sides to a problem that is obviously creating, as you say, this, this rift between confused people and less confused people. Yes. Yes. For those of you. Yeah.

Hodlonaut: how it gets. Yeah.

Knut: Nice. So, so, uh, I think the filters themselves though are, are, um, are probably a good thing. Uh, every time we find a block that doesn't have this bullshit, it's, it's a win for Bitcoin.

Hodlonaut: And I mean, the filters are, filters are applied, bottom up right in a decentralized manner. It's, uh. It's, it, it is, and it should always be the, [00:26:00] the choice of the pool, which filters they run, and then it's the choice of hash rate, which pool they wanna mine with. So it's, it's not really an issue. Uh, but it, it could be very easily be, be spun into a big issue.

Miners vs Hash Salesmen

Knut: Yeah. The, the stance we're firmly taking here, like, we're, we're talking, me and Luke talk a lot about this and the, like, the, the stance we're really, Aligned on here is that we want to differentiate between a miner and a hash salesman because you have to choose which, which you are. You can't really call yourself a Bitcoin miner.

If you don't decide on what block to mine on like that, then you're not a miner. You're just selling your computer power to someone else.

Hodlonaut: I agree. But then, uh, have you discussed at which point this, uh, like at which point you move from being a hash rate salesman to, to a minor, like, because. [00:27:00] Uh, I mean, uh, there are two polar opposites here, of course, like, you know, you'd actually be, like, just mining without being in a pool, then you're a miner, but, I mean, you will have zero chance of mining a block, uh, but, uh, on the other hand, you know, you're just blindly mining with some fucked up pool that So, yeah.

That's it. has maybe a bad policy than your hashrate salesman, but where, like, what do we need to be able to call a person a minor?

Knut: Transparency, like from the pool, like, like, um, if, if, if, if the hash salesman is totally aware of what the, the pool is doing. And then they can claim to be a miner, but, but like, if they can't, if they don't know what's coming in the block until the block is actually mined, then they're not miners, they're hash salesmen, like, and, but as you say, it's a tricky distinction.

Because [00:28:00] you can agree to parts of what the pool is doing, but not all of it. And, and the, the, the pools can be very deceitful, like they, uh, and this is what's going on, right? They're getting paid off band. They're getting paid off chain. And the miner never sees that, those transactions because they're, they're simply not to be seen.

So, uh, and this is the problem with incentives and, and if Bitcoin was only money and didn't try to be anything else, which, which should be the case, like this is the power of Bitcoin and why shit coins are, are failing. Like it's a huge part of it that Bitcoin does not try to be anything, but, you know.

Number that you keep in your head and give to someone else at some point, and 21 million, all that. Resistance to replicability, uh, as soon as you introduce, like, other use cases, that will dilute the value of Bitcoin as value free money, or wertfrei money. Uh, [00:29:00] so, uh, So there is, like, I mean, I definitely categorize, uh, Monkey JPEGs and BRC20 tokens and whatnot as spam.

There's no debate about that. They are spam. There's no such thing as a rare sat. There's, just as there's no such thing as a rare centimeter. Like, uh, it's, it's just a way of measuring, uh, something. It's, uh, they aren't, they aren't there even.

Hodlonaut: The difference from the conventional use of the word spam is that there is little or no skin in the game with email spam, for example. But with this type of spam, it costs their shirts, you know, to do the spamming, which which, uh, which, but. I agree, it's still spam, but it's, uh, unsustainable spam.

Knut: Well, not if you have a money printer. Then it's just as free as email spam.

Hodlonaut: I was caveating that exact thing in my mind while I said it, and it's [00:30:00] true, but, uh, until we have, you know, uh, more, At this point, you know, I don't think the distance to the money printer, uh, is short enough that that's actually what's going on. Uh, even though it is,

Knut: It's a potential attack vector in the future at least, and uh, but there's a very easy cure to it. Just don't sell your bitcoin. It's that simple. Especially not to a politician or someone with, you know, access to the monetary spigot.

Hodlonaut: yeah. And any, any widespread attempt at something like that will just, you know, put a fire under the ass of hyperbitcoinization and hyperinflation of a fiat money. So it's not going to be a sustainable strategy.

Knut: No, all attacks are welcome in the long run.

[00:31:00]

Institutional Adoption and ETFs

Luke: Speaking of what maybe some others might see as a different kind of attack, or at least a different way of kind of money getting into the system, the institutional adoption from [00:32:00] ETFs, attack is maybe a strong word, but certainly I have heard the angle with that, that that's a way of it. of the large institutions of capturing Bitcoin, basically, what are your thoughts on that and maybe the outlook for the next little while since the ETFs have entered the market?

Hodlonaut: Yeah, all of these coins are currently residing in the ETFs and I'm very sure there will be more coins in the ETFs a year from now than we have right now. I mean, it's a matter of when, not if, that those coins are going to get confiscated by the state, basically. And, uh, just, you know, people will obviously be reimbursed with the full value in the shitty fiat currency, but, uh. Uh, it's a holy pot just waiting to be, to be grabbed. And, uh, I think [00:33:00] everyone's pretty realistic about that. But at the same time, this is also inevitable and an inevitable part of Bitcoin's, uh, or the road towards hyper colonization. And I'm not worried about it at all. It's gonna be more lessons for new generational people.

Uh, for sure. And, uh, I mean, one perspective that I think is very, at least for me, having been in Bitcoin for a long time, it's, I'm kind of amazed it took this long. I mean, they could have swooped in much earlier, done a much worse, uh, land grab of coins and, and centralized. Bitcoin that in that way, uh, so I'm, I'm, I'm kind of happy that we managed to get all the way to 24 until this happened in a, I mean, GBTC has been soaking up a lot of coins, obviously for a, for a good [00:34:00] while, but I don't know, I don't see it as, it's going to be like a tool in the future of this war, but it's not gonna make any difference.

I

Luke: Well, and GBTC has sort of been turned out to be a Tool, or at least a lever that has been dampening the number go up of it all. Uh, the, the skeptic or the, the conspiracist, uh, among us might think that GBTC was intentionally used to, uh, uh, give the ETFs a, a cheaper access points, but they're going to run out of, uh, of coins themselves, uh, eventually here and, uh.

Then there shouldn't be another lever to pull, but um, what do you think? Do you indulge in the conspiracy that GBTC is sort of in on this to depress the price?

Hodlonaut: mean, I don't shy away from conspiracy theorists, that's for sure, but, uh, yeah, it's [00:35:00] a possibility that this was a play all along. It's, it's, uh, the setup was almost, like, a little bit too good to be true that they are dumping this hard for this long, allowing these other BTCs and, and, you know, the BTC.

Pizza slice in general to increase. and, uh, I'm noticing how this ETF inflows, ETF outflows have completely dominated the whole fundamental debate of Bitcoin price lately, which is kind of ridiculous as if there is no demand outside of these ETFs. And, uh, yeah, I think, you know, it's, it's good news for all the stay humble stack sats people.

and, uh, it's very bad news for, uh, people without conviction and, uh, emotional traders. I think, uh, this, this, this weeks we've seen lately, I can, the amount [00:36:00] of, uh, D Gen tiers out there must be overflowing. People who try to speculate the short term on getting more sats. It's never a good idea.

Knut: And for those of you who don't know, uh, ETF stands for Danish dyslexic, uh, uh, association. So does G-D-B-T-C and NGU stands for number go dyslectic. Of course.

Hodlonaut: That's true.

Luke: Knut, did you have anything more helpful to add?

Knut: Uh, no, absolutely not. Your turn. Look,

Luke: Thanks. Okay.

Predictions for the Next Years

Luke: Well, um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, uh, but, but, uh, maybe for a lens of the, the kind of, um, not even the, the optimism necessarily, but, uh, uh, the other side of it though, is, is that. Bitcoiners who have, have understood what's going on here are the ones actually seeing their conviction, uh, play [00:37:00] out properly.

And, of course, there are these, uh, the, the ultra bulls in the space, uh, Samsung comes to mind specifically, uh, you know, million, million dollar Bitcoin, this cycle, something like that. Maybe the cycles don't even exist anymore. Uh, but, but, uh, Without talking about sort of an analysis of what the price is going to be, the basic thesis is that there is a certain amount of Bitcoin in the world, and there is a growing demand for it, and there is a decreasing supply.

Most likely, we're something like five days away from that, when this episode gets Released and uh, yeah, so, so what, what is your take on, on the, the next year or two? What do you think we're in for based on the way things are going?

Hodlonaut: I have, uh, some thoughts on that. You know, I've been one of the worst permabulls. I think, uh, I've [00:38:00] never managed quite to entertain the idea that Bitcoin could possibly ever be worth less in the future than it is right now. That's always been like, uh, because I always thought Bitcoin was so undervalued and, uh, for years and years, this feeling has just intensified.

I think, uh, at this point right now, once again, you know, like I would say, A year ago or two years ago, Bitcoin has never been more undervalued than right now. And, uh, I think there is a chance that Samson can be right, but then again, trying to predict what Bitcoin is going to do is one of the most futile, uh, things you can try to do ever.

Uh, there will always be some shenanigans and unexpected shit happening, but I, I do really, really, you know, expect Bitcoin to fly. Uh, the next years, uh, I can't really see any way that's not, that's not [00:39:00] happening, but I don't like to, you know, I do my predictions on the limb sometimes. Uh, but honestly, you know, I have no fucking idea where we're going to go.

I think we're going to go high.

Knut: would you be willing to go out on a limp here and say, because we're now above 70 for like the seventh time, would you be willing to go out on a limb here on the show and say that we will never.

Hodlonaut: I, I'm seeing right now we are at 70, 150 on Coinbase Pro, uh, and that does make me want to go out on a limb and make a prediction. So I don't think we'll ever see Bitcoin below 70, 000 again.

Knut: No, neither do we. Uh, no, this is the Oh, those limbs. Uh, yeah. It's fun to be a limb outer goer. [00:40:00] Yes.

Hodlonaut: Oh yeah.

Knut: yeah. Like, if we zoom out here, what do you think of the stock to FOMO thing? That, that this, uh, this whole diminishing returns thing is wrong and that we'll eventually We'll have a J shaped, uh, uh, purchasing power curve instead. Uh, that will be when, when, like, the last bull run happens.

Um,

Hodlonaut: Is this something I'm not like stuck to FOMO? Is this a meme I'm not familiar with

Knut: maybe not. I think it's, I think it's Wicked, uh, who, who, who made it the first. Or who first visualized it, at least, with this, like, you've seen the classic, uh, yeah, the one that Erik Wall turned into this bullshit rainbow chart, well, that was a joke, I have to give him that, but, uh, some people fell for it, uh, but there's the other, uh, theory is that that rainbow will flip at some point.

And you'll get [00:41:00] a, a sort of your thesis there that bitcoins cannot go down in price at some point, that there's a point where there makes absolutely no sense for enough people to sell so that the price is virtually not going down, uh, at all. Like, the last bull run, like, it's sort of the way I visualize it, actually, that on our way to hyperbitcoinization, there is a point where things get really weird.

And that is probably that point. Anyway, brainfart.

Hodlonaut: at that point, uh, the purchasing power of Bitcoin will just be completely, uh, correlated with the amount of people in the world or something like that. Yeah.

Knut: Or rather the amount of stuff, I guess. Uh, I mean, the way I see it, like hyper colonization [00:42:00] is not when all the people have some Bitcoin. It's when all the money when Bitcoin has all the money, basically. Yeah,

Hodlonaut: Absolutely.

Bitcoin Adoption and Scaling

Luke: Actually, maybe you can, uh, maybe this is like a point to get more into here, right? Like, like, what does this actually look like in the future? The, the point that Knut is Trying to articulate right, like that, that Bitcoin adoption isn't necessarily for everyone, right? It's, it's not necessarily going to be possible that everyone touches the, the base layer.

Can, did you want to jump in and clarify your thoughts here?

Knut: yeah, yeah. It's, it's not that, that, that's another thing. Uh, thanks for clearing it up. Look like. It's, it's not, uh, Bitcoin is for everyone. Is is sort of a weird meme. It's it's not for every one, every person, it's for every dollar. Like it's, it's not for all the people, it's for all the money. What do you think of that?

Hodlonaut: I think, uh, I mean, I, I talked about the [00:43:00] amount of humans. I think. Is the amount of things really relevant if there are not enough humans to put attention on them and consume them and have any type of relationship with them? I don't know, but, uh, like your thoughts on this, Knut, and, uh, but I don't think, you know, I don't, I don't spend too much time thinking about, because I think there are so many parameters in play here and so many.

It's It's really fascinating philosophically to try to visualize this future, but, uh, uh, I think there will be, uh, context and, uh, things in this equation that we don't quite see yet. And, uh, it's, I think it's very hard to get a grip on how this future will look like. Uh, but it's not hard for me to see how. [00:44:00] Instrumental Bitcoin is right now on the road to a more sound future.

Luke: Can you expand on that a little bit? What, what, what are you thinking of that?

Hodlonaut: Basically, just that at the moment, our whole world is built on sand and built on theft and scam. And it's very clear that when you have such a system that enables The bad guys, if we're gonna simplify it down to that, uh, to print people, uh, to print money , uh, to incentivize, uh, bad behavior that them, them themselves down to, to gain from, uh, you can never have any sound structures built on such a foundation.

And, uh, yeah. Uh, the new world starts with Bitcoin, I think, and, uh, the return to, to rationality and the return to merit.

[00:45:00] [00:46:00]

History of Toxicity

Knut: this is, this is touching on a point that Sailor made to us in Madeira about, uh, you know, all the fiat money being toxic. It's akin to, uh, toxic water, right? So, so, which means that all of our history books are, are colored by this toxicity, like, uh, by the, by the, uh, Yeah,

Hodlonaut: They're paint, I think they're just painted with toxic crayons.

Knut: history is painted with toxic crayons. Exactly. Uh, yeah. So, so we might have to revise everything and, and like, um, try to, and I know of course a lot of Bitcoiners are doing this already and like studying history and, and trying to read between the [00:47:00] lines and figure out what actually happened. Like, the French Revolution, for instance.

Was that a good thing? Was that a bad thing? Uh, you know, uh, there are so many points in history to, to revise, uh, from this lens.

The Block Chain of History

Hodlonaut: Very much so. And, uh, probably it's, I mean, the task, if we're going to talk about trying to set history straight, I think that's almost, that's probably a task that's too big to ever really happen. I've had some, I mean, just our recent history, the lies that we have built our current narratives from, they're so big and they're so dark.

I mean, just my, uh, journey into realizing how fucked up certain things are, uh, started with 9 11, I would say, and the fact that 9 11 [00:48:00] still stands, like the official narrative still stands, and all the history blocks after that are built. Uh, on top of that block. And then you have like new, new deceitful blocks being built on top of deceit and just the job to unwind, unwind this all, you know, with our recent COVID live block and, you know, the ESG, uh, climate blocks and, uh, they have gotten such a foothold in our Shared consciousness and so many people are so deeply invested in them that to the, the journey to unwind all of this is, uh, mind blowingly big.

I mean, I've, I've seen how hard it is to unwind just the lies of one man, uh, for five years, which was so obviously lies. [00:49:00] And as long as you put money behind the lies and repeat them loudly enough and many times enough, it's. It's exceedingly difficult to unwind it and, uh, but I think, so I think, you know, that that can't be the focus.

The focus must be to just be here and now and do sound and true shit with the tools we have and just trust that the momentum we create will be what unwinds all of this on a long enough timescale.

Knut: Absolutely. I mean, even the smallest lies, Uh, that people get away with can have massive, like, butterfly effects on what people think about things. For instance, when, when you watch public service television, uh, uh, quote unquote public service television, and they, they, uh, say that something tax funded is free, like, just framing it like that.

when in [00:50:00] reality it's actually more expensive because it's not on the free market and thus there's no market competition around it. So whenever they say something is free, that is actually more expensive. That's little white lie. And I think 99 percent of the journalists have no clue that that's what they're doing.

They have no clue they're lying. Uh, because they never thought about these things.

Hodlonaut: Exactly. And by, by lying like that, you, you strengthen the power of the core lie also by creating this, all of these lies that rest on the, on some false premise. Uh, so it's a, it's a structure that's continuously reinforced by the whole force of, uh, mainstream media and, uh, and governments. But then again, I'm very happy to see that.

The full force of mainstream media is becoming a weaker and weaker force [00:51:00] and, uh, you know, uh, citizen reporting or decentralized individual reporting is, is gaining stronger and stronger foretold in, in how many people consume news and information.

Knut: Yeah, that's wonderful, and like, that's one of the great things I think, uh, uh, Elon has done to Twitter, is add that, uh, community thing, instead of having fact checkers, you have community checking. Of course, then, Twitter is centralized, and it is, you have to trust that Twitter is actually doing what they're saying they're doing, but at least it's a step in the right direction, for sure.

Twitter vs Nostr

Hodlonaut: Exactly. At the risk of being branded an Elon simp again, I mean, I do think that Elon taking over Twitter was. of just monumental significance and importance, uh, because they had a chokehold on, on information, uh, before that [00:52:00] happened. And you can also see, you know, as Twitter or X have opened up, uh, and introduced, uh, community notes and stuff like that, it's basically become a more accountable and open platform in terms of information.

people are flocking to it. because people, without even knowing it, I think people desire truth and, uh, you know, Nostr, as good as it is, I'm a huge Nostr fan, but, uh, it has literally zero impact on the global discourse of things and, uh, because there are not enough people on there. And, uh, there are no, there's no mainstream attention on it, but the fact that we now have X with all its flaws and all its warts and small cancer tumors that it undoubtedly still has, it's still good enough, you know, to, to get information out there and to [00:53:00] bridge the gap between now and the future where we have, uh, Significant and impactful adoption of Nostr and similar networks.

Knut: Yeah, I, uh, I am, I agree to a hundred percent. I mean, I love Nostr and, uh, but I, I'm unconvinced about the scaling of Nostr. Like, I think there are issues on the way there and I'm not entirely convinced that it will, uh, be successful in the long run. We'll just have to wait and see, I guess. But I love that it exists as an alternative because it puts pressure on the other things.

It really does because. As all exits do, um, putting pressure on the competition is always a good thing. Uh, yeah, and I think, like, Elon taking over Twitter and Jack focusing on Nostr is, it's the, it's the timeline I want to live in.

Conferences

Luke: And there will, will be, uh, we'll also be going to, uh, Riga [00:54:00] in, uh, in, uh, August, uh, in the, the middle of, uh, an exciting. Bitcoin Week in Riga, so hopefully we'll get to hear more about Nostr and uh, that uh, Knut might eventually, we actually have been deficient in this, we haven't gotten anyone who actually knows anything about Nostr on the show, we've just talked to people who think they know things about Nostr, so we should really get on that and get some people who know things about Nostr, right Knut?

Knut: absolutely.

Hodlonaut: I like that. I was, I hope there will be Nostroi sometime in the future as well.

Knut: yeah, yeah, yeah, Nostvangor, Nostöja,

Riga is looking fantastic this year, uh, I mean, uh. All the conferences are looking fantastic this year, but especially, like, I love this little trio of Prague, Madeira, and Riga being the high signal, low noise, uh, European conferences [00:55:00] and, and, like, stars aligning there, and Riga will do a little, oh, I shouldn't announce too much here, maybe too early, but something.

Luke: go, let's go ahead, I think we're good now.

Knut: Just a teaser, yeah, just a teaser, all right, where were are we then, yeah, simping for Elon,

Luke: we're shill. Let's actually properly shill Cano. So, so for, first of all, we're going to be going to Prague here in, uh, in a couple of months. And, uh, yeah, use Code Freedom if you would like a discount, a 10% discount, and you get a further 5% if you pay with Bitcoin. So come join us all in Prague and, uh, you know, are you coming Mr.

Kat?

Hodlonaut: probably not to Prague, unfortunately, no. I will make an effort to go to Riga. But I have to say, I've been talking to the organizers of Prague, uh, Martin and Matias, uh, quite a bit, and uh, huge respect for them and what they have done. And [00:56:00] I'm extremely bullish on BTC Prague this year. You know, the, uh, The ethos they are gonna, or like the, what they're going to focus on this year is super important.

And, uh, I wish I could be there,

Luke: Well, maybe let's say that you might see Mr. Kat there, but probably not.

Hodlonaut: probably not.

Knut: So use code freedom and brush your teeth, uh, FFS, that's, that's the message, right?

Luke: That's the message. And then, just since we're on the topic, in Riga, we'll be there putting on an Infinity Day party on Bitcoin Infinity Day, 8. 21, immediately after Noob Day. So come to Riga early and party with the original Meme creator himself, Knut Svanholm.

Knut: And then there's Nostriga, uh, happening, just, that's the start of Nostriga, right?

Luke: Yeah, it starts the next day. Two days of Nostriga and then actual Baltic Honey Badger, so, [00:57:00] yeah, exciting, exciting things next year. I hope you, uh, I hope you make it to that whole thing, uh, Mr.

Knut: Yeah, Code Freedom there too, I think. Uh, hopefully.

Hodlonaut: How many, how much time do you guys think we have? How many years of this cozy, uh, conference thing that we enjoy these days? Like when, when is this thing too big for that to happen the way it's happening right now?

Knut: I think about that a lot. Uh, because I think like, uh, If there, if something was to happen, uh, on one of these things, you, you remember this anarcho polko thing? There was a, a murder happening in the same town as, as, uh, there was some, some anarchist conference or something. I don't know very much about it, but I know there was some, uh, there was, uh, someone was shot the same week.

I don't know if it was connected to that or not, but, uh, I mean, that sort of ended that whole thing. [00:58:00] And I think if, if anything happens to any one of us, um, public faces in this, uh, during one of these events, that's probably the end of us being able to hang with other plebs. And like, I don't really like the idea of a Bitcoin conference where, where you, you distinguish between tiers of people.

That's that's not really, uh, I. I don't like the idea of that at all. Uh, I so, so, and that's also why I am, why I'm doing this a lot right now is because I, I, I want to squeeze as much out outta this as while, while, while, while it still exists. I mean, you don't know about tomorrow day. When, when COVID 2. 0 is, is invented, then, uh, might be very hard to travel, so, why not?

Hodlonaut: It's crazy though, when you bring that up, uh. The COVID thing, first of all, how, how quickly we kind of like forgot about it or, or people in [00:59:00] general, I didn't forget

about it, did.

but I, I, I totally still have this appreciation for being able to go, you know, I was in Madeira and just to go there with no bullshit, you know, just order the tickets, board the plane, go there, no dystopian bullshit happening

or not. some. some, there's the passport.

yeah, and like that you have to throw away your shampoo because it had too much shampoo in it or something, uh, to security

Knut: Yeah, as long as I have my 12 words, I don't care.

Hodlonaut: yeah, but what I'm, it's, we can't take anything for granted is what I'm saying. And, uh, we should, you know, be enjoying, just like you said, Knut, we should appreciate and enjoy this shit while it's here and available for us.

Gratitude and Optimism

Knut: Exactly, I'm just insanely grateful, and I bring this up all the time, like, whenever I'm on a plane, I'm still amazed that I'm flying, [01:00:00] like, it is fantastic, and you don't know how long that will last, even, like, people take so much for granted, like, the phone in my pocket, it's amazing, like, James Bond couldn't dream of this, like, 30 years ago, like, it's just I'm just so insanely grateful for the things the free market has, the somewhat free market has managed to produce, and I think the power of markets in general is so underrated.

I'm not a cynic, I'm an optimist, because I think markets are way more powerful than the Sith Lords, like the resistance will win, especially when we have Bitcoin as the photon torpedoes headed for the core of the Death Star through the vents, you know, that's, no, I'm totally optimistic. In the long run.

Hodlonaut: Yeah, me too, uh, for sure. And it's, uh, It's very easy to forget all the good shit in a world [01:01:00] where the darkness rears its head so much as it does. But, you know, in lived and perceived freedom, we probably never ever were freer than right now to do shit. But, it's just this Every present knowledge that you are being tracked and data is being collected and yeah, you know, we're just like being watched is more the feeling, I guess that's changed, but we're still able to exercise a lot of freedom, uh, not least in terms of freedom of speech.

Free Speech and Censorship

Hodlonaut: And, uh, I think. A big task for everyone in the world right now is to not self censor, not over comply, so to say, because a lot of people are, they're just feeling the tendencies in the world and they just get very like apprehensive and maybe Don't speak [01:02:00] fully out on certain topics and, uh, this, uh, the, uh, the, the self censorship and the chilling of free speech is a real thing.

And we should, everyone should, you know, really try to speak as freely as they dare to on all these topics. Subjects that rule the world right now.

Knut: Yeah. Yeah. But fear, fear is a, is a powerful tool. I mean, there, there are certain religions in the world that people, including myself don't talk about because why would I want a threat? Like if I, if I spoke my mind on certain things, like, and, uh, by religions, I include statism by the way. So, so we are being, uh, I mean, of course, they're, these are powerful forces, but I totally agree with like, uh, and exercising your freedom of speech, [01:03:00] uh, is extra ultra super duper important now that speech is property, like, which is, it never has been before, like the, the, when we have Bitcoin and speech is actually, uh, as close as it can get to tangible property.

Then, then, uh, it becomes more, more important than ever to, to, uh, uphold those laws and to fight the battle because the, the fight for freedom never ends. Uh, people will always try to, uh, Try to intrude on your freedoms. That's just inevitable, the way I see it. It's like that Terry Pratchett quote, the problem with an open mind is that people will come along and try to put stuff in it.

And so, so, yeah, you have to stay vigilant and, and, and, uh Actually, uh, and principled. I think it's, it's so uncommon that people are principled and, and uphold that they [01:04:00] don't like, Oh, principles is something you can have, uh, if you're that kind of person, like, no, it's for everyone, like a society, a civilized society needs principled people who are willing to, to sacrifice short term stuff for integrity.

And yeah, so we need heroes like you, Mr. Katz.

Hodlonaut: I saw a thing going on Twitter a couple of days ago, I don't remember or maybe even didn't notice where it started, but this, uh, Like, the concept was that if your, if your price isn't your life, then you can be bought. and that's about, you know, if you don't own your integrity above the monetary price on it, then you don't own it at all.

And then you can be bought. It's just about finding the price. But for some people, integrity trumps everything. And just because that's how they [01:05:00] find purpose and meaning in the world, and that's how they And, like, personally, I can't think of any worse thing than not respecting myself or not, like, living up to what I demand from myself or from others.

Uh, so, yeah, it's, uh,

Standing Up for Freedom

Hodlonaut: It's a very interesting topic, this whole thing of,

Knut: It is. And it's like, to me, yeah, it's even worse than the un lubed version of the dildo consequence, right, regardless of the size. And it's very close to this notion that if you don't have the right to be left alone, if that's not the Something that you experience, then the only right you have left is the right to obey.

There is no silver lining. Like either you're free or you're not.

Hodlonaut: and you, you can apply a lot of rhetoric and mental gymnastics to this topic and people will [01:06:00] make all kinds of excuses for themselves for compromising. But my experience and my philosophy on it is that once you start compromising, you might, it's just like step one on the full slide to corruption. But you just can't compromise on your integrity at all.

That's like a binary thing. And I wanted to mention another thing that Rune Østgaard, author of Fraudcoin, a good friend of mine, he has been reflecting a lot of, you know, the Rune Østgaard. You know, the fight for freedom and, uh, and standing up for freedom. And he made the observation that, uh, the cost of freedom is reduced, uh, relative to how many people stand up and, uh, the more people who dare or manage to, to stand up and, and stand for something.

That reduces the cost for each [01:07:00] individual of doing so, but if you're alone in standing up, the cost will be severe and, uh, history, in history, it will very often be death, but, uh, yeah, so, so like the decentralized, yeah, like, I think it, it fits very well to Bitcoin with our decentralized approach and, uh, all the nodes.

That, uh, the, it's almost impossible to quell a movement with a lot of heads that stand up and, and fight, so to say.

Knut: Yeah. And, and also, um, yeah, I mean we love Una here. Uh, uh, he is another hero. The, the, the thing I'd like to add to that is Metcal's Law. So the value of any communications network is the square of its number of users, so, which means that the, the, the value of the resistance is also [01:08:00] squared by its number of users, so the cost is drastically reduced with each, uh, new person added, To, to the network. And that's why I think the tipping point of like any type of hyper colonization scenario is much lower. The, the threshold is much lower than we think it is because of the immense value, the, the immense power of, of METCO law and the people don't think in exponentials.

Hodlonaut: Yeah. It's so important to try to be, or to not think that it doesn't matter, basically. I don't know, it doesn't matter if I, like, no one will notice or no one will care. I think, uh, if you can be an example for one other person, that's like fucking amazing. And, uh, we saw it during COVID how, at least here in Norway, a big part of the reason why people The reason they obeyed so much was because [01:09:00] it was very hard for them to see anyone who didn't.

Uh, and the moment, you know, someone of any significance dared to stand up and counter the narrative, it was The follow, the ripple effect was huge and I know in my own circle that a few people almost buckled for the pressure of getting vaccinated just because they didn't have anyone around them who didn't do it.

But then when they spoke to someone who could argue for the other side, they were strengthened. Their resolve was strengthened so much and they were able to resist.

Knut: Yeah. And, and also like when, when the. Almost all countries drop the curfew or the mask mandates and stuff within like three months, right, of one another. Because, uh, I, I traveled a lot during that era, and you see, so in one airport everyone was wearing a mask, and in the next no one was wearing a mask, so it's, [01:10:00] it like made no sense, because these are airports, like, uh, so, uh, well, it makes no sense anyway, but, uh, uh, the, the thing I, it's like, When 5 percent of the people in the airport dared to not wear the mask, that's when everyone else just followed suit, and everyone dropped the mask.

So the threshold is much lower than you think. Disobedience matters, people. Brush your teeth.

Hodlonaut: Yes.

Knut: Or don't.

Hodlonaut: I remember during COVID I was, regularly the only fucking person in the mall without the mask and it did. It drains you a little bit over time, you know, because you get all this looks and comments and, uh, and friction, but just seeing that one other guy occasionally, you know, meeting his eye on like, yeah, uh, that was a huge motivating or boost [01:11:00] for my resolve just to see that I hope at least I'm not completely alone that, uh,

Knut: Yeah, I remember meeting you in the airport in Oslo.

You remember that? Everyone looking at us for not wearing a mask?

Hodlonaut: that was in the middle of this bullshit, right?

Ahead of the Curve

Knut: Yeah, it was. And like, and like with everything else, like Bitcoiners weren't like, like, we were also just people, but the feeling I had from like following the Bitcoin community and the rest of the world is like, that we were ahead of the curve. Bitcoiners were scared of the virus before everyone else was and was not scared of the virus when everyone else was like, we're like.

Yeah, as I said, ahead of the curve. That's, that's the feeling I got from it.

Hodlonaut: Yeah, like, uh, information asymmetry thing. Because I do feel that it's not [01:12:00] just because we want to be contrarians. It is because we base our beliefs Not on propaganda or, or false, like things that are easily proven to be illogical or irrational. But we want to go, you know, to the data points and like make up our own mind, not just accepting predigested, uh, Opinions on things.

So I think that's what's going on. On average, Bitcoiners are better critical thinkers.

Knut: Yeah, yeah, I think so too. First, more first principles oriented. Where the base layer, like, you have the base layer and you have the base layer. Uh, yeah, well, was it Giacomo who said, like, if, if you do everything completely the opposite of what the government tells you to do, probably not right about everything but you're probably better off than if you followed everything they said like [01:13:00] so

Hodlonaut: that's accurate. I would say you're definitely better off instead of probably, but,

Knut: yeah yeah i i think he used the word definitely too and i agree to to that No, but that's so interesting, like, flock mentality, and another thing I found so interesting about the late stage COVID, uh, was that the rules changed quicker and quicker the further down this horrible path we went, and it became like a virtue signaling mechanism for obedient people to follow the new rule every week, like, to adapt to the new fucking thing that they were, uh, like, trying to shove down our throats.

Which is like the opposite of a bitcoiner, an obedience

Hodlonaut: was really like opening, opening a hole into the box of the dark side of humanity, what was happening there. And, uh, [01:14:00] I'm sure it's not the last time in history, you know, uh, average man is going to be weaponized by false narratives against people who want freedom. Because of that, it's always good to almost like Bitcoin's resistance growth by every attack, I think to, to have freedom. We need, we need attacks and we need attacks that fail to remind people

Attacks as a Net Positive

Knut: Yeah, I was just getting to that. There might even be a question in here somewhere. That's the thing, because on the whole Do you think this attack was a net positive for humanity? Because the things I saw, like, was, first of all, this video conferencing, uh, became, instantly became bearably good. Like, before COVID, it was sort of too clunky to For people to actually use it.

This is relatively new, being able to do [01:15:00] this like, like without issues. And I think COVID really propelled that, or the lockdowns did. and the other thing is like, of course, a new generation of Bitcoiners were born. The percentage of freedom lovers in the world is probably bigger now than before COVID.

Hodlonaut: I think, so I think it's, uh, similar. I think it's very relatable to Bitcoin and uh, because with Bitcoin, I think it was extremely important that Bitcoin has been attacked the way it has. All along its history, I think the block size war was extremely important. I think the continued, you know, attacks, because resistance also needs to scale.

And if instead there had been the illusion of zero attacks, you got like a complacent, uh, space of Bitcoiners who didn't anticipate attacks that weren't used to attacks. And suddenly you have like, let's say [01:16:00] an extremely well funded attack with the. With a Craig Wright that, uh, wasn't a clown, it could have been way worse.

And the same with, you know, the same with COVID, if, if certain parameters had been different, or if, if COVID didn't never happen, then if they had an even better and more thought through and, you know, finely executed version of such a scare, I think they could just lock down the whole humankind into some perpetual.

Dystopia. Uh, but that will be harder now because of COVID.

Knut: Yeah, and I heard the arguments for harder lockdowns, like, this was when I stopped listening to Sam Harris forever, like, when he was totally pro that. One of these arguments was, like, imagine if the virus was ten times as deadly. then it would be ten times more important [01:17:00] to have the lockdown policies. But I completely disagree.

If the virus is ten times more deadly, people will take more responsibility for their own actions. Like, that's just inevitable. Like, if it's actually dangerous, people won't go to the office. Voluntarily. So like, that makes no sense.

Hodlonaut: We can't, we can't, I mean, any thinking person that argues along those lines to me is just like, I don't even understand it because the end road of that type of logic is that we can't have freedoms because there will always be threats and you can, there will always be risks associated with life. But once you legitimize forcefully.

Restricting people's freedom over a narrative of risk. It's game over because that's, that's a slide that you don't, it never stops midway. It stops at complete prison world. [01:18:00] And, uh, yeah, I think that that was also a good thing that more people probably have made their observations and reflections on the dynamic between freedom and, uh, and safety.

Knut: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the quote for the intro, by the way, that, that last little rant.

Hodlonaut: Could be.

Knut: Fantastic.

Bitcoin Adviser

Luke: Well, uh, I think, I think maybe we're, uh, drawing to a conclusion on this conversation. Actually, actually, I think, I think our, our, um, friend, uh, And now Collie, Peter Dunworth would be mad if I didn't ask you one last time a little bit more about the Bitcoin Advisor.

Can you tell us a little bit more about why you got involved with that and what goes on there?

Hodlonaut: Yeah. I've always been very Cognizant and vocal about the importance of self custody. [01:19:00] And I think Not Your Keys, Not Your Coins is one of the Most important memes in Bitcoin, I think it's strange that today people still believe or many people still believe they own Bitcoin by having them on an exchange or buying an ETF product.

in my opinion, they don't own those Bitcoins, obviously, since they don't have the keys. So what the Bitcoin advisor does is, uh, help people who may not have the. The technical capacity to securely take self custody of their coins to help them transition from an exchange, uh, into a solid self custody, which is done through what we call collaborative custody, which is a multi sig solution, uh, with no single point of failure while the client still [01:20:00] retains full sovereignty.

Yeah,

Wrapping Up

Luke: Absolutely fantastic. And so this is what you're doing these days. Anything else you'd like to direct our listeners towards? Where can they find you on the internet? I think this one's pretty easy, actually.

Hodlonaut: I'm mostly on X under the hudlonaut handle, I guess that's where I do all of my public facing opinionating and shit, all my shitposting. We do run our magazine Citadel 21 still, we have two volumes left to print. Volume 20 and volume 21. So anyone wanting some very non compromising, legit Bitcoin culture readings, go to citadel21.

com and read it for free online, or you can visit our shop and buy yourself a copy of one or more of the [01:21:00] editions. They're all hand numbered and limited to a thousand copies each. I think it's a cool brand. There has been exactly 0 percent selling out on that project. It's been like some type of a hard project for me and Katja. So we haven't made any money on it, but we made a lot of friends and a lot of cool magazines.

Knut: yeah, you definitely did, alright, Mr. Cat, thank you very much for this conversation, we enjoyed it immensely, and we hope you did too, and we hope our listeners did too. This was a, uh, Slightly odd episode, but I loved it.

So take care, good luck with

Hodlonaut: Yeah, great to talk to you guys. Talk soon.

Luke: Thanks again, Mr. Captain. This has been the Freedom Footprint Show and Knut has something else to say.

Knut: I do, uh, if you're trying to follow Hodlonaut on, on X or Twitter, make [01:22:00] sure you find the right one because you have more fake accounts running around than, than, uh, Satoshi himself, I guess.

Hodlonaut: Yeah, it's fucked up. I have no idea why they can't easily fix that issue, but yeah, follow the right one. H O D L O M A U T.

Luke: All right. Fantastic. Thank you again, Hodlenod, and this has been the Freedom Footprint Show. Thanks for listening.

Hodlonaut: Thank you guys.