Bitcoin in 2025 - Trump, the Bull Market, and More with Cory Klippsten

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Any impartial observer can

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see about Trump

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as he really likes

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numbers go up

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and he likes being credited

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for a number going up.

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If you're saying that

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there will be no large

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crashes in Bitcoin

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ever again,

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you're also saying

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that there will be

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no periods of mania

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with both tops ever again

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navigating a bull market.

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If you go to the bathroom

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for 5 minutes

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or 3 minutes or whatever,

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you might come back

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and there'll be another 4

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or $5 million of exposure

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to your position.

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I just hope more

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and more people realize

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that there is a way to save.

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Now that doesn't require

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being a hedge fund manager.

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Savings is the thing,

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and that is what Fiat

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has destroyed, to the point

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where everyone's a gambler.

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And now I realize that

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almost all of sports

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is fueled by gambling

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almost exclusively.

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Like all the media

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content is not about what's

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this interesting,

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in-depth interview

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about this athlete

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as a person?

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No, it's like

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the injury report

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so that somebody

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can change their fantasy

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football lineup.

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There's only

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one entity on the planet

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that can really make things

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ugly and dark.

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For Bitcoin and Bitcoiners,

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it's only

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the state Department

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of the United States.

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Corey welcome

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back to the Bitcoin

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Infinity Show.

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Thank you

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for joining us again.

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It's great to be here.

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Hey there Luke.

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Let's go.

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I love it. Let's go.

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Let's go Corey.

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First of all,

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thank you very much for for,

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taking me to Istanbul

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a couple of months

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back, like,

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I, I enjoyed that immensely.

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We went to a little bitcoin

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meet up there

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and, had had some fun times.

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I got to try a proper kebab

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without without the sauces.

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I hear

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that's like how they do

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the men is in Istanbul.

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I recently saw a,

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cooking YouTube clip.

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Where, where,

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some guy was trying to make

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proper kebab, and it's,

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well, it's a Istanbul

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is a special place.

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Let's just say that.

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The seasoning

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is already on the meat

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when they cook it.

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That's the whole.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah.

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It's been marinated, man.

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I it feels like that

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dinner just ended.

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That was a marathon.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was,

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it was intense for sure.

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And, but,

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what a beautiful place.

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Yeah.

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People everywhere but

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but nice people.

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I mean,

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Istanbul is special.

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Sure. It's it's truly.

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It's a bridge

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between the east and west.

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Yeah, it really is.

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I, I try to describe

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to people

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who haven't been there

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what it's kind of like.

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And because a lot of people

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have been to Rome

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and how cool it is

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to see the old

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mixed with the new

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because their buildings

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from 20,

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20, 500 years

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ago, things like that.

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Well, Istanbul is like that

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because it's a city

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that's been there for

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millennia,

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and there are buildings

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there that date to,

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you know, 4 or 500 BC,

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and then everything since

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except Rome

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is like maybe fewer

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than 2 million people.

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And it's not a

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commercial center,

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and Istanbul

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has 18 million people,

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the same as the New York

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metro area

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or the same, as, you know,

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basically all of LA County.

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And it's all just plopped

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right on top

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of all that

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ancient architecture.

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And so it's just

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this bustling metropolis.

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It's the biggest city

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in the world

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for three quarters

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of the years

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since Christ and,

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you know, there's

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no other major city

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that compares

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for a thousand miles

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in any direction.

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And, yeah, it's it's

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it's different.

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Istanbul is built different

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now.

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It's truly special.

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I mean,

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the traffic is horrible,

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but other than that, it's,

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it's. Don't drive anywhere.

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Yeah.

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And I still think

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it should change

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it back

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to make like

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or not Constantinople.

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Make like

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or just the proper name.

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Right? Right. Luke.

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Is that what

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the Vikings that came down

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and hung out

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for a little bit called it?

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Yeah, yeah,

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they came down

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and then hung out

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for a little bit.

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But exactly what they did.

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No.

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Great.

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All right.

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So, so I think for

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most of our listeners

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probably know

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you since before,

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and if they don't,

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shame on them.

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But I think a lot of people

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would like to hear

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whatever you,

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whatever beans

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you can spill on the

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on the whole swan

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story thing. Like what?

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What is

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can you give us an update

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on Swan?

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Where what's

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where is one

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is at at the moment

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and what's going on.

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Yeah yeah yeah sure.

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So on the,

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on the financial services

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side,

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kind of the wealth platform

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for years

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and families and stuff

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like this is all crushing

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and doing great

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as you can imagine.

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And and a budding

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bull market.

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So revenue is up

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something like two

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year over year. And,

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so yeah,

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very, very happy with that.

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Rolling out new products.

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We've got a waitlist

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coming out

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for our pretty

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awesome products

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that a lot of people

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are excited about.

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So that'll come out

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next week,

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the week of the

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16th of December.

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And then.

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Yeah, I mean,

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just just just growing fast

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and navigating

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a bull market,

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you gotta got a tiger

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by the tail.

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In this situation,

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phone's

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kind of ringing

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off the hook,

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and all the sales

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guys are are busy

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all the time,

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as you can imagine.

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So, you just don't want to.

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Don't want to mess it up

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when you have these kinds

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of tailwinds.

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And then,

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I think you're probably

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also asking about, mining

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because we,

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not not our own decision

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to get out of the mining

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business back

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in, back in August.

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It was,

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it was somebody else

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decision to,

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to take our mining business.

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Unfortunately,

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I can't really

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talk about it.

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What's what's in

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public is in the filings

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and covered by the press,

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but the rest is

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just working its way

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through the courts.

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But, obviously,

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we built a really

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valuable business, and

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and we have pretty

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strong claims over the value

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that we that we delivered.

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And,

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and we'll see

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how it plays out.

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But it's really just kind of

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a separate thing.

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Now that's, that's just,

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you know, managed

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basically outside

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the main business of Swan.

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And it doesn't

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really affect us.

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Okay.

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So so

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business as usual

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on the normal swan side.

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So yeah. Speak.

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Yeah I'll well

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love the partners.

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We have big fan of

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of equity Trust,

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which is 50 year old company

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that kind of created

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the alternative assets

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in retirement

306
00:05:50,041 --> 00:05:51,958
accounts category.

307
00:05:51,958 --> 00:05:52,416
So they're

308
00:05:52,416 --> 00:05:53,708
profitable and huge,

309
00:05:53,708 --> 00:05:54,250
and that's

310
00:05:54,250 --> 00:05:55,916
got our retirement accounts

311
00:05:55,916 --> 00:05:57,750
now, which is awesome.

312
00:05:57,750 --> 00:05:58,916
Back doors handling

313
00:05:58,916 --> 00:06:00,750
brokerage, which is,

314
00:06:00,750 --> 00:06:03,250
much better tech platform

315
00:06:03,250 --> 00:06:04,375
and much deeper pockets.

316
00:06:04,375 --> 00:06:04,958
They're majority

317
00:06:04,958 --> 00:06:05,875
owned by Ice,

318
00:06:05,875 --> 00:06:06,833
which owns New York

319
00:06:06,833 --> 00:06:07,708
Stock Exchange.

320
00:06:07,708 --> 00:06:09,458
And you know, chairman of

321
00:06:09,458 --> 00:06:10,958
is Kelly Lafleur's husband.

322
00:06:10,958 --> 00:06:11,791
And she's now

323
00:06:11,791 --> 00:06:12,875
the head

324
00:06:12,875 --> 00:06:13,708
of the Small Business

325
00:06:13,708 --> 00:06:14,833
Administration under Trump.

326
00:06:14,833 --> 00:06:15,958
So they're connected.

327
00:06:15,958 --> 00:06:17,208
They've got New York.

328
00:06:17,208 --> 00:06:18,208
They've got you know,

329
00:06:18,208 --> 00:06:18,625
they're just

330
00:06:18,625 --> 00:06:20,458
it's a much better platform.

331
00:06:20,458 --> 00:06:21,375
We've got limit orders

332
00:06:21,375 --> 00:06:22,500
coming for everybody.

333
00:06:23,500 --> 00:06:24,083
You know, a lot of

334
00:06:24,083 --> 00:06:24,958
people wanted that.

335
00:06:24,958 --> 00:06:26,625
We'll have,

336
00:06:26,625 --> 00:06:27,958
we'll have interest

337
00:06:27,958 --> 00:06:28,791
bearing accounts

338
00:06:28,791 --> 00:06:30,041
for USD deposits

339
00:06:30,041 --> 00:06:31,041
paid in Bitcoin,

340
00:06:31,041 --> 00:06:32,000
the same as,

341
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:32,458
what River

342
00:06:32,458 --> 00:06:33,541
announced a few months ago.

343
00:06:33,541 --> 00:06:34,375
So we should have that

344
00:06:34,375 --> 00:06:34,833
in the next few

345
00:06:34,833 --> 00:06:35,875
months as well.

346
00:06:35,875 --> 00:06:36,875
So I just think there's

347
00:06:36,875 --> 00:06:39,250
a lot of cool stuff coming.

348
00:06:39,250 --> 00:06:41,333
Working on getting, into,

349
00:06:41,333 --> 00:06:42,416
asset backed loans

350
00:06:42,416 --> 00:06:43,541
for all 50 states

351
00:06:43,541 --> 00:06:44,833
in the first half of,

352
00:06:44,833 --> 00:06:45,791
of 2024.

353
00:06:45,791 --> 00:06:46,791
So just kind of product

354
00:06:46,791 --> 00:06:48,250
expansion with,

355
00:06:48,250 --> 00:06:49,416
with better partners

356
00:06:49,416 --> 00:06:51,083
as this whole,

357
00:06:51,083 --> 00:06:51,416
you know,

358
00:06:51,416 --> 00:06:54,916
crypto infrastructure space,

359
00:06:54,958 --> 00:06:56,291
all the vendors that serve

360
00:06:56,291 --> 00:06:57,416
Bitcoin companies

361
00:06:57,416 --> 00:06:58,375
are getting

362
00:06:58,375 --> 00:07:00,500
better, maturing,

363
00:07:00,500 --> 00:07:00,958
getting rid

364
00:07:00,958 --> 00:07:01,916
of the bad players

365
00:07:01,916 --> 00:07:02,916
that weren't very good

366
00:07:02,916 --> 00:07:03,750
and things like that.

367
00:07:03,750 --> 00:07:04,625
So just kind of allows

368
00:07:04,625 --> 00:07:06,208
us to be the,

369
00:07:06,208 --> 00:07:07,250
the point of contact

370
00:07:07,250 --> 00:07:08,625
for families and businesses

371
00:07:08,625 --> 00:07:10,791
looking to build wealth

372
00:07:10,791 --> 00:07:11,500
in Bitcoin.

373
00:07:11,500 --> 00:07:12,375
They end up needing

374
00:07:12,375 --> 00:07:13,541
a lot of different products

375
00:07:13,541 --> 00:07:14,166
and services

376
00:07:14,166 --> 00:07:15,125
that they want serviced

377
00:07:15,125 --> 00:07:16,208
by Bitcoin experts

378
00:07:16,208 --> 00:07:17,541
because their,

379
00:07:17,541 --> 00:07:18,208
you know, their

380
00:07:18,208 --> 00:07:18,791
their private

381
00:07:18,791 --> 00:07:19,416
wealth management

382
00:07:19,416 --> 00:07:20,458
guy doesn't

383
00:07:20,458 --> 00:07:21,541
speak this language

384
00:07:21,541 --> 00:07:22,000
and doesn't

385
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:23,375
understand Bitcoin.

386
00:07:23,375 --> 00:07:24,000
And we do.

387
00:07:25,583 --> 00:07:25,791
That.

388
00:07:25,791 --> 00:07:27,291
He doesn't speak C plus.

389
00:07:27,291 --> 00:07:29,166
Plus is that

390
00:07:29,166 --> 00:07:30,833
is that the language.

391
00:07:30,833 --> 00:07:33,833
Anyway, I think

392
00:07:33,875 --> 00:07:34,791
we had a conversation

393
00:07:34,791 --> 00:07:36,666
about this in Istanbul,

394
00:07:36,666 --> 00:07:38,750
about like the equities,

395
00:07:38,750 --> 00:07:40,291
the ETFs,

396
00:07:40,291 --> 00:07:41,583
all the paper bitcoins

397
00:07:41,583 --> 00:07:42,083
that the,

398
00:07:42,083 --> 00:07:43,291
the big exchanges

399
00:07:43,291 --> 00:07:45,833
may or may not have,

400
00:07:45,833 --> 00:07:47,625
strategic bitcoin reserves

401
00:07:47,625 --> 00:07:48,625
for nation states

402
00:07:48,625 --> 00:07:49,666
and all of this stuff.

403
00:07:49,666 --> 00:07:50,750
And I remember

404
00:07:50,750 --> 00:07:51,166
you saying,

405
00:07:51,166 --> 00:07:53,750
like the conclusion of the,

406
00:07:53,750 --> 00:07:56,166
of the, the conversation

407
00:07:56,166 --> 00:07:56,541
we had

408
00:07:56,541 --> 00:07:57,083
was sort of like,

409
00:07:57,083 --> 00:07:58,375
sort of like all roads

410
00:07:58,375 --> 00:07:59,250
lead to Bitcoin

411
00:07:59,250 --> 00:08:00,333
like this, that,

412
00:08:00,333 --> 00:08:02,125
that really this black hole

413
00:08:02,125 --> 00:08:04,333
phenomenon that, that

414
00:08:04,333 --> 00:08:05,375
it where's the wealth

415
00:08:05,375 --> 00:08:05,875
gonna go.

416
00:08:05,875 --> 00:08:07,333
It can only go to Bitcoin

417
00:08:07,333 --> 00:08:07,791
in the end.

418
00:08:07,791 --> 00:08:08,875
Like can you expand

419
00:08:08,875 --> 00:08:11,416
on that a bit.

420
00:08:11,416 --> 00:08:11,916
Yeah I mean

421
00:08:11,916 --> 00:08:13,541
I think that's that's true.

422
00:08:13,541 --> 00:08:15,291
And and we've seen it

423
00:08:15,291 --> 00:08:16,250
being borne out

424
00:08:16,250 --> 00:08:17,666
over the last few years.

425
00:08:17,666 --> 00:08:20,875
And Bitcoin's growth story,

426
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:22,708
which by the way,

427
00:08:22,708 --> 00:08:23,875
I think will continue

428
00:08:23,875 --> 00:08:25,083
even past the point

429
00:08:25,083 --> 00:08:26,208
where volatility

430
00:08:26,208 --> 00:08:27,416
is dramatically reduced.

431
00:08:27,416 --> 00:08:28,458
So in a few decades

432
00:08:28,458 --> 00:08:29,500
when we're not

433
00:08:29,500 --> 00:08:31,125
still experiencing,

434
00:08:31,125 --> 00:08:31,708
you know,

435
00:08:31,708 --> 00:08:33,291
price booms and busts,

436
00:08:33,291 --> 00:08:34,166
I think the growth

437
00:08:34,166 --> 00:08:34,833
rate of Bitcoin

438
00:08:34,833 --> 00:08:36,083
will still be

439
00:08:36,083 --> 00:08:36,958
the best risk

440
00:08:36,958 --> 00:08:37,916
adjusted return

441
00:08:37,916 --> 00:08:38,875
for any major asset

442
00:08:38,875 --> 00:08:39,833
class out there

443
00:08:39,833 --> 00:08:41,625
for quite some time.

444
00:08:41,625 --> 00:08:43,125
Eventually, you know,

445
00:08:43,125 --> 00:08:44,000
maybe end of the century

446
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:44,500
or something

447
00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:45,291
will be

448
00:08:45,291 --> 00:08:46,708
finally surpassed again

449
00:08:46,708 --> 00:08:48,708
by by businesses

450
00:08:48,708 --> 00:08:49,750
building value

451
00:08:49,750 --> 00:08:50,916
with with Bitcoin

452
00:08:50,916 --> 00:08:51,875
as the risk free rate.

453
00:08:51,875 --> 00:08:52,708
This Bitcoin's

454
00:08:52,708 --> 00:08:53,666
purchasing power increase

455
00:08:53,666 --> 00:08:54,708
as the risk free rate that

456
00:08:54,708 --> 00:08:55,958
they've got to hurdle over.

457
00:08:57,666 --> 00:08:59,250
But until then,

458
00:08:59,250 --> 00:09:00,625
you know, any

459
00:09:00,625 --> 00:09:02,000
any instrument,

460
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,541
any business or

461
00:09:03,541 --> 00:09:05,416
any any bond offering,

462
00:09:05,416 --> 00:09:07,916
any stock offering,

463
00:09:07,916 --> 00:09:09,500
you have to really consider

464
00:09:09,500 --> 00:09:11,333
whether it's made better.

465
00:09:11,333 --> 00:09:12,333
And that means

466
00:09:12,333 --> 00:09:15,500
is the risk reward better by

467
00:09:16,625 --> 00:09:18,291
leveraging Bitcoin for it.

468
00:09:18,291 --> 00:09:19,708
So this is what we see

469
00:09:19,708 --> 00:09:20,625
with, multiple

470
00:09:20,625 --> 00:09:22,708
companies now.

471
00:09:22,708 --> 00:09:23,333
In November

472
00:09:23,333 --> 00:09:24,875
was kind of an explosion of,

473
00:09:24,875 --> 00:09:26,041
of more companies

474
00:09:26,041 --> 00:09:27,625
issuing large convertible

475
00:09:27,625 --> 00:09:29,416
debt offerings.

476
00:09:29,416 --> 00:09:30,791
So not just MicroStrategy.

477
00:09:30,791 --> 00:09:31,666
You had,

478
00:09:31,666 --> 00:09:32,958
$2 billion

479
00:09:32,958 --> 00:09:34,500
offerings from marathon.

480
00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:35,833
Both of them were actually,

481
00:09:35,833 --> 00:09:36,958
scheduled for

482
00:09:36,958 --> 00:09:37,750
less than a billion

483
00:09:37,750 --> 00:09:38,125
and ended up

484
00:09:38,125 --> 00:09:39,625
getting oversubscribed.

485
00:09:39,625 --> 00:09:40,375
Then you had

486
00:09:40,375 --> 00:09:42,083
to do a 500 million offer,

487
00:09:42,083 --> 00:09:44,333
and then you had riot do.

488
00:09:44,333 --> 00:09:45,416
They offered 500,

489
00:09:45,416 --> 00:09:45,750
ended up

490
00:09:45,750 --> 00:09:48,750
oversubscribed into 525.

491
00:09:49,083 --> 00:09:50,666
And then you have the,

492
00:09:50,666 --> 00:09:51,625
the smaller guys

493
00:09:51,625 --> 00:09:52,166
that aren't

494
00:09:52,166 --> 00:09:53,208
doing convertible debt

495
00:09:53,208 --> 00:09:53,708
because they don't

496
00:09:53,708 --> 00:09:54,750
have the size

497
00:09:54,750 --> 00:09:55,416
and the liquidity

498
00:09:55,416 --> 00:09:55,791
to do the

499
00:09:55,791 --> 00:09:56,750
convertible offerings,

500
00:09:56,750 --> 00:09:57,625
but they're continuing

501
00:09:57,625 --> 00:09:59,375
to do the stock offerings.

502
00:09:59,375 --> 00:10:00,583
Right. So that's similar.

503
00:10:01,583 --> 00:10:01,958
Some of these

504
00:10:01,958 --> 00:10:02,541
smaller players,

505
00:10:02,541 --> 00:10:03,500
like the Mata planets

506
00:10:03,500 --> 00:10:04,875
and stuff,

507
00:10:04,875 --> 00:10:05,291
are doing

508
00:10:05,291 --> 00:10:06,750
these, these stock offerings

509
00:10:06,750 --> 00:10:07,166
and they're,

510
00:10:07,166 --> 00:10:09,000
they're using the same logic

511
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,125
that MicroStrategy

512
00:10:10,125 --> 00:10:11,500
is promoting about,

513
00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:13,000
you know, essentially

514
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,291
this, this massive,

515
00:10:14,291 --> 00:10:15,333
this multiplier tier

516
00:10:15,333 --> 00:10:16,333
and that asset value.

517
00:10:16,333 --> 00:10:17,333
And if that's high,

518
00:10:17,333 --> 00:10:18,291
it's accretive

519
00:10:18,291 --> 00:10:19,916
to issue stock

520
00:10:19,916 --> 00:10:21,375
and buy Bitcoin with it.

521
00:10:21,375 --> 00:10:22,500
And that then flows

522
00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:23,833
through to your

523
00:10:23,833 --> 00:10:24,833
balance sheet.

524
00:10:24,833 --> 00:10:25,791
You don't recognize

525
00:10:25,791 --> 00:10:26,666
it as earnings.

526
00:10:26,666 --> 00:10:28,333
But in some ways

527
00:10:28,333 --> 00:10:29,125
there's an argument

528
00:10:29,125 --> 00:10:29,875
to be said

529
00:10:29,875 --> 00:10:31,166
that it kind of is

530
00:10:31,166 --> 00:10:32,250
because what's

531
00:10:32,250 --> 00:10:33,083
the point of earnings

532
00:10:33,083 --> 00:10:33,916
in the first place.

533
00:10:33,916 --> 00:10:35,000
Earnings

534
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,166
accrete to the assets

535
00:10:36,166 --> 00:10:37,166
on your balance sheet.

536
00:10:37,166 --> 00:10:38,333
That's the whole point

537
00:10:38,333 --> 00:10:38,666
right.

538
00:10:38,666 --> 00:10:38,916
So you're

539
00:10:38,916 --> 00:10:40,000
just kind of skipping a step

540
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:40,666
and you're not flowing it

541
00:10:40,666 --> 00:10:41,750
through the business.

542
00:10:41,750 --> 00:10:42,666
You're just

543
00:10:43,666 --> 00:10:44,666
beefing up your balance

544
00:10:44,666 --> 00:10:46,041
sheet by by playing

545
00:10:46,041 --> 00:10:46,500
this are

546
00:10:46,500 --> 00:10:47,375
between the value

547
00:10:47,375 --> 00:10:48,083
of your stock

548
00:10:48,083 --> 00:10:49,000
and its premium

549
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,000
over your bitcoin holdings.

550
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,166
So that's

551
00:10:51,166 --> 00:10:52,583
it is super fascinating.

552
00:10:52,583 --> 00:10:53,541
And then these convert

553
00:10:53,541 --> 00:10:55,375
buyers are seeing returns

554
00:10:55,375 --> 00:10:56,458
that they've never seen

555
00:10:56,458 --> 00:10:57,375
in their markets.

556
00:10:57,375 --> 00:10:57,750
They're also

557
00:10:57,750 --> 00:10:58,708
seeing volatility

558
00:10:58,708 --> 00:11:00,166
like they've never seen.

559
00:11:00,166 --> 00:11:02,458
So I've been talking

560
00:11:02,458 --> 00:11:03,291
to a lot of the folks

561
00:11:03,291 --> 00:11:04,708
I mean we had

562
00:11:04,708 --> 00:11:05,666
a big Wall Street

563
00:11:05,666 --> 00:11:06,625
firm convert

564
00:11:06,625 --> 00:11:07,416
desk out

565
00:11:07,416 --> 00:11:08,625
with us on on Monday

566
00:11:08,625 --> 00:11:09,416
with some of our

567
00:11:09,416 --> 00:11:10,250
clients and partners

568
00:11:10,250 --> 00:11:10,916
and just kind of picking

569
00:11:10,916 --> 00:11:12,083
their brains and,

570
00:11:12,083 --> 00:11:12,250
you know,

571
00:11:12,250 --> 00:11:13,000
anybody that shows

572
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,000
up on a podcast

573
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,083
and seems eloquent

574
00:11:15,083 --> 00:11:16,000
about this,

575
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:16,250
you know,

576
00:11:16,250 --> 00:11:17,333
I'll grab them and grab

577
00:11:17,333 --> 00:11:18,166
a quick conversation

578
00:11:18,166 --> 00:11:18,500
with them.

579
00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:19,708
Sometimes I'm just

580
00:11:19,708 --> 00:11:20,958
using the frickin audio

581
00:11:20,958 --> 00:11:22,041
call function on Twitter,

582
00:11:22,041 --> 00:11:23,000
and I'll just call somebody

583
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:23,583
that seems like

584
00:11:23,583 --> 00:11:23,875
they send

585
00:11:23,875 --> 00:11:24,916
something intelligent,

586
00:11:24,916 --> 00:11:25,791
they pick up,

587
00:11:25,791 --> 00:11:27,083
and all of a sudden you're

588
00:11:27,083 --> 00:11:28,000
driving around L.A.

589
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,333
talking to some rando

590
00:11:29,333 --> 00:11:30,375
in Switzerland or something.

591
00:11:31,916 --> 00:11:34,458
But, yeah, it's it is

592
00:11:34,458 --> 00:11:36,000
it is roiling markets.

593
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,833
It is making

594
00:11:37,833 --> 00:11:39,583
a whole different class

595
00:11:39,583 --> 00:11:41,333
of investor,

596
00:11:41,333 --> 00:11:42,666
obviously, the kind of

597
00:11:42,666 --> 00:11:44,083
day to day stock punters

598
00:11:44,083 --> 00:11:45,000
that you see on Twitter,

599
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,000
but an entire entire,

600
00:11:49,166 --> 00:11:51,000
swath of Wall Street,

601
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:51,833
and I'm assuming London

602
00:11:51,833 --> 00:11:52,625
as well,

603
00:11:52,625 --> 00:11:53,875
now has to pay attention

604
00:11:53,875 --> 00:11:55,166
to this

605
00:11:55,166 --> 00:11:55,625
because it's

606
00:11:55,625 --> 00:11:57,750
changing what they do.

607
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:59,291
And they have to.

608
00:11:59,291 --> 00:11:59,833
I was

609
00:11:59,833 --> 00:12:00,750
I was

610
00:12:00,750 --> 00:12:01,583
listening to,

611
00:12:01,583 --> 00:12:04,041
Richard Bosworth, who's,

612
00:12:04,041 --> 00:12:04,666
smart farmer,

613
00:12:04,666 --> 00:12:05,625
a convert trader

614
00:12:05,625 --> 00:12:06,125
who's been

615
00:12:06,125 --> 00:12:06,875
in the Bitcoin space

616
00:12:06,875 --> 00:12:07,208
for a while.

617
00:12:07,208 --> 00:12:07,500
I think

618
00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:08,458
he's on the board of,

619
00:12:08,458 --> 00:12:10,250
of relay over in Europe,

620
00:12:10,250 --> 00:12:11,541
in Switzerland.

621
00:12:11,541 --> 00:12:12,791
And he was talking

622
00:12:12,791 --> 00:12:14,333
to one of his convert

623
00:12:14,333 --> 00:12:15,375
trader friends,

624
00:12:15,375 --> 00:12:15,875
and it's like,

625
00:12:15,875 --> 00:12:16,250
that guy

626
00:12:16,250 --> 00:12:16,750
can't go to the

627
00:12:16,750 --> 00:12:18,416
bathroom anymore

628
00:12:18,416 --> 00:12:19,083
during the day.

629
00:12:19,083 --> 00:12:19,500
Like, he just.

630
00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:20,083
You just can't

631
00:12:20,083 --> 00:12:21,333
you can't leave your desk

632
00:12:21,333 --> 00:12:22,666
because you have to be there

633
00:12:22,666 --> 00:12:24,041
monitoring your delta hedges

634
00:12:24,041 --> 00:12:24,791
and your gamma hedges

635
00:12:24,791 --> 00:12:25,375
and all this shit

636
00:12:25,375 --> 00:12:26,583
and like it.

637
00:12:26,583 --> 00:12:27,208
You know,

638
00:12:27,208 --> 00:12:28,041
if you go to the bathroom

639
00:12:28,041 --> 00:12:28,625
for 5 minutes

640
00:12:28,625 --> 00:12:29,666
or 3 minutes or whatever,

641
00:12:29,666 --> 00:12:30,500
you might come back

642
00:12:30,500 --> 00:12:31,500
and there will be another,

643
00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:32,000
you know, 4

644
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,416
or $5 million of exposure

645
00:12:33,416 --> 00:12:34,875
to your position

646
00:12:34,875 --> 00:12:35,458
because it's moving

647
00:12:35,458 --> 00:12:36,916
around so fast.

648
00:12:36,916 --> 00:12:38,041
And that is,

649
00:12:38,041 --> 00:12:39,208
you know, traditionally

650
00:12:39,208 --> 00:12:40,958
more of a boring,

651
00:12:40,958 --> 00:12:41,666
not boring.

652
00:12:41,666 --> 00:12:42,000
I mean,

653
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,500
it's exciting for bonds.

654
00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:43,958
Converts are

655
00:12:43,958 --> 00:12:44,541
more interesting

656
00:12:44,541 --> 00:12:44,875
because they have

657
00:12:44,875 --> 00:12:46,375
an option in them. But,

658
00:12:47,583 --> 00:12:48,208
yeah, it's a different

659
00:12:48,208 --> 00:12:49,458
ballgame for these guys now.

660
00:12:49,458 --> 00:12:51,125
And and the buzz,

661
00:12:51,125 --> 00:12:51,583
you know,

662
00:12:51,583 --> 00:12:52,791
when I was in New York

663
00:12:52,791 --> 00:12:53,875
the early part of this week

664
00:12:53,875 --> 00:12:55,125
and the buzz around this

665
00:12:55,125 --> 00:12:56,708
and the curiosity

666
00:12:56,708 --> 00:12:57,708
and the number of people

667
00:12:57,708 --> 00:12:58,416
that will come out

668
00:12:58,416 --> 00:12:59,750
to come and chat about it

669
00:12:59,750 --> 00:13:00,458
or clear

670
00:13:00,458 --> 00:13:01,333
time in their schedule

671
00:13:01,333 --> 00:13:02,041
to just kind of

672
00:13:02,041 --> 00:13:03,291
talk about Bitcoin,

673
00:13:03,291 --> 00:13:04,500
because Bitcoin has now

674
00:13:04,500 --> 00:13:05,708
crossed over

675
00:13:05,708 --> 00:13:06,750
into their world.

676
00:13:06,750 --> 00:13:07,750
It didn't really cross

677
00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:09,750
over that way with the ETFs.

678
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:11,666
The you know, a few firms

679
00:13:11,666 --> 00:13:13,333
have ETF departments.

680
00:13:13,333 --> 00:13:14,541
And they added Bitcoin.

681
00:13:14,541 --> 00:13:15,666
And it was the same buyers

682
00:13:15,666 --> 00:13:16,250
of Bitcoin

683
00:13:16,250 --> 00:13:16,916
that you know

684
00:13:16,916 --> 00:13:18,291
usually were there

685
00:13:18,291 --> 00:13:19,250
a few more people were able

686
00:13:19,250 --> 00:13:20,208
to get exposure to it.

687
00:13:20,208 --> 00:13:22,166
But it's basically one long.

688
00:13:22,166 --> 00:13:25,166
And you know mostly the

689
00:13:25,541 --> 00:13:26,666
the leveraged

690
00:13:26,666 --> 00:13:29,041
and the options on on

691
00:13:29,041 --> 00:13:30,625
the ETFs is again,

692
00:13:30,625 --> 00:13:31,916
kind of for asset managers.

693
00:13:31,916 --> 00:13:32,958
It wasn't like a different

694
00:13:32,958 --> 00:13:34,791
asset class the way,

695
00:13:36,125 --> 00:13:37,208
the way that the crossover

696
00:13:37,208 --> 00:13:37,583
has been

697
00:13:37,583 --> 00:13:39,375
into the DAP markets.

698
00:13:39,375 --> 00:13:40,208
So there's just a

699
00:13:40,208 --> 00:13:41,250
it's a

700
00:13:41,250 --> 00:13:43,208
it's a different energy

701
00:13:43,208 --> 00:13:44,625
that that conversation

702
00:13:44,625 --> 00:13:46,375
is again.

703
00:13:46,375 --> 00:13:47,166
Absolutely.

704
00:13:47,166 --> 00:13:50,166
And unlike

705
00:13:50,458 --> 00:13:52,541
let's see,

706
00:13:52,541 --> 00:13:54,000
let's see if I can,

707
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,041
like, break this down

708
00:13:55,041 --> 00:13:55,500
to like,

709
00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:56,583
try to explain it to

710
00:13:56,583 --> 00:13:57,750
maybe not a five year old,

711
00:13:57,750 --> 00:14:00,750
but an 11 year old and,

712
00:14:00,750 --> 00:14:02,666
see, see if I got it right.

713
00:14:02,666 --> 00:14:04,791
And feel free to, to,

714
00:14:04,791 --> 00:14:05,500
correct me

715
00:14:05,500 --> 00:14:06,500
at any point here.

716
00:14:06,500 --> 00:14:07,875
But if I were to explain

717
00:14:07,875 --> 00:14:08,833
what MicroStrategy

718
00:14:08,833 --> 00:14:09,625
is doing to

719
00:14:09,625 --> 00:14:10,708
to an 11 year old,

720
00:14:10,708 --> 00:14:11,750
I would say that they

721
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:13,083
they're they know

722
00:14:13,083 --> 00:14:14,125
that there's a thing

723
00:14:14,125 --> 00:14:15,458
that's going down in value,

724
00:14:15,458 --> 00:14:16,083
and that's the thing

725
00:14:16,083 --> 00:14:17,166
that's going up in value.

726
00:14:17,166 --> 00:14:17,666
And they're trying

727
00:14:17,666 --> 00:14:18,916
to get rid of the ones

728
00:14:18,916 --> 00:14:19,333
that the

729
00:14:19,333 --> 00:14:20,416
the one that is going down

730
00:14:20,416 --> 00:14:21,291
and accumulate

731
00:14:21,291 --> 00:14:22,208
as much as possible

732
00:14:22,208 --> 00:14:23,625
over the one going up.

733
00:14:23,625 --> 00:14:25,166
Now they have,

734
00:14:25,166 --> 00:14:27,333
a lot of money,

735
00:14:27,333 --> 00:14:29,541
so they can get cheap loans

736
00:14:29,541 --> 00:14:30,125
because they can

737
00:14:30,125 --> 00:14:31,041
use their equity

738
00:14:31,041 --> 00:14:31,916
as collateral.

739
00:14:31,916 --> 00:14:33,166
It's that it's that. Right.

740
00:14:33,166 --> 00:14:33,958
Like, that's

741
00:14:33,958 --> 00:14:34,666
that's how they,

742
00:14:37,416 --> 00:14:39,625
So it's close, I think

743
00:14:39,625 --> 00:14:39,958
on the

744
00:14:39,958 --> 00:14:40,625
first point,

745
00:14:40,625 --> 00:14:41,916
what their arbitrage thing

746
00:14:41,916 --> 00:14:42,750
is, the cheap

747
00:14:42,750 --> 00:14:44,250
cost of credit.

748
00:14:44,250 --> 00:14:45,000
So loans

749
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,750
are artificially kept low,

750
00:14:46,750 --> 00:14:47,666
which makes sense

751
00:14:47,666 --> 00:14:48,291
because governments

752
00:14:48,291 --> 00:14:49,375
are wildly indebted.

753
00:14:49,375 --> 00:14:49,708
And so they

754
00:14:49,708 --> 00:14:50,875
artificially keep

755
00:14:50,875 --> 00:14:51,833
interest rates low

756
00:14:51,833 --> 00:14:52,791
so that they can afford

757
00:14:52,791 --> 00:14:55,250
to pay their debts.

758
00:14:55,250 --> 00:14:55,458
Yeah.

759
00:14:55,458 --> 00:14:56,875
They're basically using

760
00:14:56,875 --> 00:14:57,958
the Cantillon effect

761
00:14:57,958 --> 00:14:59,500
to their advantage here.

762
00:14:59,500 --> 00:14:59,833
Yes.

763
00:14:59,833 --> 00:15:00,458
So, so

764
00:15:00,458 --> 00:15:01,375
and and the reason

765
00:15:01,375 --> 00:15:02,208
that they can pay

766
00:15:02,208 --> 00:15:03,208
their interest

767
00:15:03,208 --> 00:15:04,583
because it's not zero

768
00:15:04,583 --> 00:15:05,875
and it's not negative

769
00:15:05,875 --> 00:15:06,958
is that they have like

770
00:15:06,958 --> 00:15:08,750
$400 million of profit

771
00:15:08,750 --> 00:15:10,333
from their core business

772
00:15:10,333 --> 00:15:10,708
a year

773
00:15:10,708 --> 00:15:11,500
or something like that.

774
00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:12,375
Right?

775
00:15:12,375 --> 00:15:13,375
They do have profits.

776
00:15:13,375 --> 00:15:15,000
But at this point, it's

777
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,708
also almost irrelevant

778
00:15:16,708 --> 00:15:17,541
because the interest

779
00:15:17,541 --> 00:15:18,750
payments are not high.

780
00:15:18,750 --> 00:15:19,833
They've issued

781
00:15:19,833 --> 00:15:20,625
all their recent

782
00:15:20,625 --> 00:15:21,625
convertible debt offerings,

783
00:15:21,625 --> 00:15:23,625
have had 0% coupons.

784
00:15:23,625 --> 00:15:24,458
So, you know,

785
00:15:24,458 --> 00:15:25,500
I think they've got one big

786
00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:27,000
offering at 2.2%

787
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,875
and another 1 to 0.87%,

788
00:15:29,875 --> 00:15:31,541
and the rest are at zero.

789
00:15:31,541 --> 00:15:32,416
And okay.

790
00:15:32,416 --> 00:15:33,541
And basically what

791
00:15:33,541 --> 00:15:35,166
slides is if if you have,

792
00:15:37,333 --> 00:15:38,458
yeah, I mean, you basically

793
00:15:38,458 --> 00:15:39,291
if you have a higher

794
00:15:39,291 --> 00:15:40,166
interest rate,

795
00:15:40,166 --> 00:15:41,125
then you can put

796
00:15:41,125 --> 00:15:42,000
the strike price

797
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:42,875
on the convert

798
00:15:42,875 --> 00:15:43,916
higher as well.

799
00:15:43,916 --> 00:15:45,500
If you have a lower

800
00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:46,166
interest rate,

801
00:15:46,166 --> 00:15:47,250
you have to lower

802
00:15:47,250 --> 00:15:49,291
the strike price.

803
00:15:49,291 --> 00:15:49,833
So they've

804
00:15:49,833 --> 00:15:50,833
basically made the

805
00:15:50,833 --> 00:15:52,583
the trade off of saying,

806
00:15:52,583 --> 00:15:53,666
okay, we'll take that

807
00:15:53,666 --> 00:15:55,708
slightly lower strike price.

808
00:15:55,708 --> 00:15:57,208
And therefore you investor

809
00:15:57,208 --> 00:15:58,583
in the convertible

810
00:15:58,583 --> 00:15:59,000
bond,

811
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,083
have a better chance

812
00:16:00,083 --> 00:16:01,083
of being in the money

813
00:16:01,083 --> 00:16:03,625
when this converts to stock,

814
00:16:03,625 --> 00:16:04,541
in exchange

815
00:16:04,541 --> 00:16:06,083
for not paying interest

816
00:16:06,083 --> 00:16:08,125
as they go.

817
00:16:08,125 --> 00:16:08,583
All right.

818
00:16:08,583 --> 00:16:10,041
So so if we,

819
00:16:10,041 --> 00:16:11,458
if we extrapolate this

820
00:16:11,458 --> 00:16:11,958
and see what

821
00:16:11,958 --> 00:16:13,000
like try to predict

822
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:13,791
the future here

823
00:16:13,791 --> 00:16:15,208
and we try to,

824
00:16:15,208 --> 00:16:16,916
envision like a thousand

825
00:16:16,916 --> 00:16:17,666
MicroStrategy

826
00:16:17,666 --> 00:16:18,291
is trying to do

827
00:16:18,291 --> 00:16:21,041
exactly the same thing.

828
00:16:21,041 --> 00:16:22,666
Is it an infinite game?

829
00:16:22,666 --> 00:16:23,375
It's like this,

830
00:16:23,375 --> 00:16:24,416
the infinite money glitch.

831
00:16:24,416 --> 00:16:26,375
Can they do this forever?

832
00:16:26,375 --> 00:16:27,333
Like my argument

833
00:16:27,333 --> 00:16:28,916
against the MicroStrategy

834
00:16:28,916 --> 00:16:30,416
fanboys here,

835
00:16:30,416 --> 00:16:31,250
is just to play

836
00:16:31,250 --> 00:16:32,041
the devil's advocate

837
00:16:32,041 --> 00:16:33,791
is that the underlying asset

838
00:16:33,791 --> 00:16:34,416
is, of course,

839
00:16:34,416 --> 00:16:35,250
the the risk

840
00:16:35,250 --> 00:16:36,041
free version

841
00:16:36,041 --> 00:16:37,458
of MicroStrategy stock,

842
00:16:37,458 --> 00:16:39,458
because at some point,

843
00:16:39,458 --> 00:16:40,250
Michael can

844
00:16:40,250 --> 00:16:41,666
can change his mind

845
00:16:41,666 --> 00:16:42,208
and just sell

846
00:16:42,208 --> 00:16:43,583
everything like that

847
00:16:43,583 --> 00:16:44,875
can still happen.

848
00:16:44,875 --> 00:16:45,333
Like,

849
00:16:45,333 --> 00:16:46,708
and you don't have that risk

850
00:16:46,708 --> 00:16:47,916
if you hold your own case

851
00:16:47,916 --> 00:16:49,291
like that as well.

852
00:16:49,291 --> 00:16:49,875
Except that

853
00:16:49,875 --> 00:16:50,875
you can change your mind

854
00:16:50,875 --> 00:16:51,875
or you can time lock them.

855
00:16:51,875 --> 00:16:53,125
And, you know, doesn't

856
00:16:53,125 --> 00:16:53,666
even matter

857
00:16:53,666 --> 00:16:54,833
if you change your mind.

858
00:16:54,833 --> 00:16:56,000
So, so

859
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:57,791
so how long can this game

860
00:16:57,791 --> 00:16:59,166
go on like does?

861
00:16:59,166 --> 00:17:00,416
Is this the beginning

862
00:17:00,416 --> 00:17:02,000
of the end of fiat?

863
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:02,583
In general?

864
00:17:02,583 --> 00:17:03,208
Like, can

865
00:17:03,208 --> 00:17:03,958
they just

866
00:17:03,958 --> 00:17:04,708
cancel on the

867
00:17:04,708 --> 00:17:05,666
fuck out of this thing?

868
00:17:05,666 --> 00:17:07,250
And then if Fiat just dies

869
00:17:07,250 --> 00:17:07,875
at one point

870
00:17:07,875 --> 00:17:09,083
because everyone is playing

871
00:17:09,083 --> 00:17:10,458
this game.

872
00:17:10,458 --> 00:17:10,708
Look,

873
00:17:10,708 --> 00:17:11,875
this is the speculative

874
00:17:11,875 --> 00:17:12,708
attack, right?

875
00:17:12,708 --> 00:17:14,000
This is this

876
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,041
this, by the way,

877
00:17:16,041 --> 00:17:18,000
this is institutions coming.

878
00:17:19,625 --> 00:17:21,166
ETFs were not

879
00:17:21,166 --> 00:17:21,958
ETFs was

880
00:17:21,958 --> 00:17:23,250
like a way for people

881
00:17:23,250 --> 00:17:25,041
to buy more Bitcoin.

882
00:17:25,041 --> 00:17:25,875
And it's one for one

883
00:17:25,875 --> 00:17:26,541
and like it.

884
00:17:26,541 --> 00:17:29,541
It was like a step.

885
00:17:30,291 --> 00:17:31,666
There's the sea change

886
00:17:31,666 --> 00:17:32,583
that's happened

887
00:17:32,583 --> 00:17:34,166
really in the last month

888
00:17:34,166 --> 00:17:35,291
just since

889
00:17:35,291 --> 00:17:36,750
the beginning of November.

890
00:17:36,750 --> 00:17:37,500
And I think

891
00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:38,958
I think the real signal

892
00:17:38,958 --> 00:17:39,625
is probably

893
00:17:39,625 --> 00:17:41,208
that another company

894
00:17:41,208 --> 00:17:41,791
was able

895
00:17:41,791 --> 00:17:42,541
to do

896
00:17:42,541 --> 00:17:44,000
a large convert offering.

897
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:44,583
So when you saw

898
00:17:44,583 --> 00:17:46,416
a marathon able to do one

899
00:17:46,416 --> 00:17:48,166
and then two, by the way,

900
00:17:48,166 --> 00:17:49,916
on the back of losing 134

901
00:17:49,916 --> 00:17:51,625
million in Q3

902
00:17:51,625 --> 00:17:52,208
and the market

903
00:17:52,208 --> 00:17:53,166
still snapped up

904
00:17:53,166 --> 00:17:54,625
their convertible

905
00:17:54,625 --> 00:17:56,583
offerings like crazy.

906
00:17:56,583 --> 00:17:57,875
And then you saw Hut

907
00:17:57,875 --> 00:17:58,458
and Riot

908
00:17:58,458 --> 00:17:58,791
be able

909
00:17:58,791 --> 00:17:59,708
to do the same thing.

910
00:17:59,708 --> 00:18:01,666
And it's it's just math.

911
00:18:01,666 --> 00:18:02,833
Like there's

912
00:18:02,833 --> 00:18:04,583
these stocks have volatility

913
00:18:04,583 --> 00:18:05,416
and there's an embedded

914
00:18:05,416 --> 00:18:06,000
call option

915
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,583
and convertible debt

916
00:18:07,583 --> 00:18:08,583
off in a convertible

917
00:18:08,583 --> 00:18:09,750
debt instrument.

918
00:18:09,750 --> 00:18:11,333
And you can price it in

919
00:18:11,333 --> 00:18:12,666
if they offer it at less

920
00:18:12,666 --> 00:18:13,083
than what

921
00:18:13,083 --> 00:18:14,541
the bankers spreadsheet

922
00:18:14,541 --> 00:18:15,291
or the buyer.

923
00:18:15,291 --> 00:18:16,333
Allianz, you know,

924
00:18:16,333 --> 00:18:16,916
bought a quarter

925
00:18:16,916 --> 00:18:18,458
of one of Microstrategy's

926
00:18:18,458 --> 00:18:19,750
convert offerings.

927
00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:20,791
If in their spreadsheet it

928
00:18:20,791 --> 00:18:22,125
says this is a good deal,

929
00:18:23,333 --> 00:18:25,416
then they buy it

930
00:18:25,416 --> 00:18:26,208
and that's it.

931
00:18:26,208 --> 00:18:27,166
It's just math.

932
00:18:27,166 --> 00:18:29,666
So look, there will be

933
00:18:29,666 --> 00:18:30,958
there will be a local

934
00:18:30,958 --> 00:18:31,916
top for this.

935
00:18:31,916 --> 00:18:32,333
There will be

936
00:18:32,333 --> 00:18:33,125
some kind of mania

937
00:18:33,125 --> 00:18:34,166
where it gets overbought

938
00:18:34,166 --> 00:18:35,166
and they get overextended

939
00:18:35,166 --> 00:18:35,916
for sure.

940
00:18:35,916 --> 00:18:37,125
That's that's guaranteed

941
00:18:37,125 --> 00:18:38,125
because that's just how

942
00:18:38,125 --> 00:18:38,875
markets develop.

943
00:18:38,875 --> 00:18:39,375
So there will be

944
00:18:39,375 --> 00:18:40,458
some kind of,

945
00:18:40,458 --> 00:18:40,833
you know,

946
00:18:40,833 --> 00:18:42,583
lby mania at some point

947
00:18:42,583 --> 00:18:44,166
probably in 2025.

948
00:18:44,166 --> 00:18:46,041
And it'll probably be

949
00:18:46,041 --> 00:18:47,916
part of what causes

950
00:18:47,916 --> 00:18:48,500
a blow off

951
00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:50,375
top in the Bitcoin price,

952
00:18:50,375 --> 00:18:51,208
which means we will

953
00:18:51,208 --> 00:18:52,333
probably have a crash.

954
00:18:52,333 --> 00:18:53,250
I'm not a I'm

955
00:18:53,250 --> 00:18:55,583
not a no more big crashes

956
00:18:55,583 --> 00:18:57,125
because if you're saying buy

957
00:18:57,125 --> 00:18:57,875
if you're saying

958
00:18:57,875 --> 00:18:59,208
that there will be no large

959
00:18:59,208 --> 00:19:00,500
crashes in Bitcoin

960
00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:01,833
ever again,

961
00:19:01,833 --> 00:19:02,583
you're also saying

962
00:19:02,583 --> 00:19:04,791
that there will be no

963
00:19:04,791 --> 00:19:06,000
periods of mania

964
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:06,625
with blow off

965
00:19:06,625 --> 00:19:07,458
tops ever again.

966
00:19:08,458 --> 00:19:11,000
But so I will say, like,

967
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,041
if there's not a point

968
00:19:12,041 --> 00:19:13,083
in 2025

969
00:19:13,083 --> 00:19:13,875
where we go up

970
00:19:13,875 --> 00:19:15,625
two weeks in a month,

971
00:19:15,625 --> 00:19:16,583
then maybe we have a shot

972
00:19:16,583 --> 00:19:18,833
at not having a big crash.

973
00:19:18,833 --> 00:19:19,958
But if we go to like,

974
00:19:19,958 --> 00:19:20,791
you know,

975
00:19:20,791 --> 00:19:22,375
150 or 200

976
00:19:22,375 --> 00:19:23,583
and then at two axes

977
00:19:23,583 --> 00:19:25,041
in four weeks,

978
00:19:25,041 --> 00:19:27,625
that's, that's the mania.

979
00:19:27,625 --> 00:19:28,541
And they'll probably be

980
00:19:28,541 --> 00:19:28,833
a bunch

981
00:19:28,833 --> 00:19:30,666
of like crappy companies

982
00:19:30,666 --> 00:19:32,291
issuing convertible bonds

983
00:19:32,291 --> 00:19:32,875
and the market

984
00:19:32,875 --> 00:19:34,208
still snapping them up.

985
00:19:34,208 --> 00:19:34,916
And those people

986
00:19:34,916 --> 00:19:35,291
are all going

987
00:19:35,291 --> 00:19:36,625
to lose their shit

988
00:19:36,625 --> 00:19:37,375
because they don't have

989
00:19:37,375 --> 00:19:38,541
the kind of leverage ratios

990
00:19:38,541 --> 00:19:39,291
and the size

991
00:19:39,291 --> 00:19:40,958
and the liquidity

992
00:19:40,958 --> 00:19:42,500
that MicroStrategy has,

993
00:19:42,500 --> 00:19:43,541
or they have businesses

994
00:19:43,541 --> 00:19:44,250
that lose money

995
00:19:44,250 --> 00:19:45,625
instead of make money,

996
00:19:45,625 --> 00:19:46,791
things like that. Right.

997
00:19:46,791 --> 00:19:49,791
So you know, it is it is

998
00:19:50,791 --> 00:19:51,458
it's the most

999
00:19:51,458 --> 00:19:53,458
easily identifiable,

1000
00:19:54,750 --> 00:19:56,750
risk for both.

1001
00:19:56,750 --> 00:19:58,666
What will cause a mania

1002
00:19:58,666 --> 00:20:00,208
and what will cause

1003
00:20:00,208 --> 00:20:03,958
a large pullback is this.

1004
00:20:04,375 --> 00:20:05,416
And it won't be because

1005
00:20:05,416 --> 00:20:06,500
of MicroStrategy.

1006
00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:07,291
It'll be because

1007
00:20:07,291 --> 00:20:08,041
of a lot of shitty

1008
00:20:08,041 --> 00:20:11,041
companies copying them.

1009
00:20:11,375 --> 00:20:12,166
And it'll be a bunch of

1010
00:20:12,166 --> 00:20:13,500
unsophisticated players

1011
00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:14,666
that don't understand

1012
00:20:14,666 --> 00:20:15,625
the difference between

1013
00:20:15,625 --> 00:20:16,458
this convertible

1014
00:20:16,458 --> 00:20:17,083
debt offering

1015
00:20:17,083 --> 00:20:17,875
and that convertible

1016
00:20:17,875 --> 00:20:19,500
debt offering,

1017
00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:19,708
you know,

1018
00:20:19,708 --> 00:20:20,666
plowing a bunch of money

1019
00:20:20,666 --> 00:20:21,458
into this, thinking

1020
00:20:21,458 --> 00:20:22,583
that it's an it's

1021
00:20:22,583 --> 00:20:23,500
it's a money glitch

1022
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:24,625
if you do it right.

1023
00:20:24,625 --> 00:20:26,541
It's not

1024
00:20:26,541 --> 00:20:28,916
always a money glitch.

1025
00:20:28,916 --> 00:20:29,833
And then I wanted to

1026
00:20:29,833 --> 00:20:30,375
just get back

1027
00:20:30,375 --> 00:20:31,083
to, you know,

1028
00:20:31,083 --> 00:20:31,791
what you were saying?

1029
00:20:31,791 --> 00:20:33,625
Like, you know,

1030
00:20:33,625 --> 00:20:36,333
I, I've been using the term,

1031
00:20:36,333 --> 00:20:36,958
like your

1032
00:20:36,958 --> 00:20:38,750
sovereignty multiple.

1033
00:20:38,750 --> 00:20:39,500
So basically,

1034
00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:41,125
how much more valuable

1035
00:20:41,125 --> 00:20:42,958
is bitcoin and cold storage

1036
00:20:42,958 --> 00:20:44,458
than another asset,

1037
00:20:44,458 --> 00:20:45,666
whether it's bitcoin linked

1038
00:20:45,666 --> 00:20:46,208
or whatever

1039
00:20:46,208 --> 00:20:48,500
that's not in cold storage.

1040
00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:49,125
And like,

1041
00:20:50,333 --> 00:20:50,875
you know, I've run

1042
00:20:50,875 --> 00:20:52,083
polls on this.

1043
00:20:52,083 --> 00:20:54,916
I think people

1044
00:20:54,916 --> 00:20:55,458
I mean, based

1045
00:20:55,458 --> 00:20:56,708
on what I see in behavior,

1046
00:20:56,708 --> 00:20:58,750
I think they probably,

1047
00:20:58,750 --> 00:20:59,666
slant the polls

1048
00:20:59,666 --> 00:21:00,333
a little bit,

1049
00:21:00,333 --> 00:21:01,541
but it usually comes out

1050
00:21:01,541 --> 00:21:02,625
that all the answers are

1051
00:21:02,625 --> 00:21:05,208
in the 5 to 10 X range.

1052
00:21:05,208 --> 00:21:06,041
I do think that

1053
00:21:06,041 --> 00:21:07,375
broadly, Bitcoiners

1054
00:21:07,375 --> 00:21:08,208
assign

1055
00:21:08,208 --> 00:21:09,416
something like a

1056
00:21:09,416 --> 00:21:11,708
50 to 100% premium.

1057
00:21:11,708 --> 00:21:14,291
So like 1.5 x to two x.

1058
00:21:14,291 --> 00:21:15,208
Now that's not

1059
00:21:15,208 --> 00:21:16,375
the super freedom

1060
00:21:16,375 --> 00:21:17,041
minded people.

1061
00:21:17,041 --> 00:21:18,750
Like it's in near

1062
00:21:18,750 --> 00:21:20,125
infinite, right.

1063
00:21:20,125 --> 00:21:20,750
And people

1064
00:21:20,750 --> 00:21:21,875
that don't trust the system

1065
00:21:21,875 --> 00:21:22,250
or people

1066
00:21:22,250 --> 00:21:22,833
that have been de

1067
00:21:22,833 --> 00:21:23,541
banks before.

1068
00:21:23,541 --> 00:21:24,500
Like, you know, there

1069
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:24,958
there are people

1070
00:21:24,958 --> 00:21:25,583
that skew that.

1071
00:21:25,583 --> 00:21:26,708
But I think the,

1072
00:21:26,708 --> 00:21:28,208
the mean

1073
00:21:28,208 --> 00:21:29,375
is something like a 50

1074
00:21:29,375 --> 00:21:30,833
or 100% premium

1075
00:21:30,833 --> 00:21:31,583
over value

1076
00:21:31,583 --> 00:21:34,583
held in the system.

1077
00:21:34,583 --> 00:21:35,666
You know, and I'm

1078
00:21:35,666 --> 00:21:36,958
sure that's colored by me

1079
00:21:36,958 --> 00:21:37,958
being in the US, and it's

1080
00:21:37,958 --> 00:21:39,000
dramatically higher

1081
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:39,416
for people

1082
00:21:39,416 --> 00:21:41,000
in Lebanon and Turkey

1083
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:41,958
and other places. Right.

1084
00:21:44,750 --> 00:21:45,916
But yeah, but

1085
00:21:45,916 --> 00:21:46,333
you need to

1086
00:21:46,333 --> 00:21:47,750
discount the value

1087
00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:49,041
and the expected

1088
00:21:49,041 --> 00:21:50,625
returns of any instrument

1089
00:21:50,625 --> 00:21:53,041
that's not fucking Bitcoin.

1090
00:21:53,041 --> 00:21:53,708
And I don't think

1091
00:21:53,708 --> 00:21:54,208
a lot of people

1092
00:21:54,208 --> 00:21:54,666
are doing that.

1093
00:21:54,666 --> 00:21:55,500
I see a lot of people

1094
00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:56,250
that don't understand

1095
00:21:56,250 --> 00:21:58,041
Bitcoin whatsoever,

1096
00:21:58,041 --> 00:21:59,458
and haven't done the work

1097
00:21:59,458 --> 00:22:00,750
to understand what it means

1098
00:22:00,750 --> 00:22:02,000
to actually have value

1099
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,083
completely outside

1100
00:22:03,083 --> 00:22:05,125
of the system.

1101
00:22:05,125 --> 00:22:06,041
And they haven't

1102
00:22:06,041 --> 00:22:06,958
really thought through

1103
00:22:06,958 --> 00:22:08,041
and quantified that.

1104
00:22:08,041 --> 00:22:08,541
And I think it's

1105
00:22:08,541 --> 00:22:10,458
a really good,

1106
00:22:10,458 --> 00:22:12,000
vector for education

1107
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,083
in the coming months.

1108
00:22:13,083 --> 00:22:13,750
And having

1109
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:14,541
that proof of work

1110
00:22:14,541 --> 00:22:15,500
and putting that education

1111
00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:17,208
out over the next six months

1112
00:22:17,208 --> 00:22:18,375
or 12 months

1113
00:22:18,375 --> 00:22:19,291
before

1114
00:22:19,291 --> 00:22:21,041
what will probably be

1115
00:22:21,041 --> 00:22:24,958
it's a debt speculation

1116
00:22:26,083 --> 00:22:28,375
mania in 2025.

1117
00:22:28,375 --> 00:22:29,958
At some point,

1118
00:22:29,958 --> 00:22:31,041
it'll be nice to already

1119
00:22:31,041 --> 00:22:31,916
have everything

1120
00:22:31,916 --> 00:22:32,666
you can point to

1121
00:22:32,666 --> 00:22:33,833
about how you know.

1122
00:22:33,833 --> 00:22:34,458
Okay, well, here's

1123
00:22:34,458 --> 00:22:35,541
all these resources.

1124
00:22:35,541 --> 00:22:36,750
Remember Self-custody.

1125
00:22:36,750 --> 00:22:37,583
But specifically,

1126
00:22:37,583 --> 00:22:38,250
this is how much

1127
00:22:38,250 --> 00:22:39,500
more valuable

1128
00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:40,583
and having frameworks

1129
00:22:40,583 --> 00:22:42,708
and models behind why

1130
00:22:42,708 --> 00:22:43,708
self-custody Bitcoin

1131
00:22:43,708 --> 00:22:44,958
is so much more valuable

1132
00:22:44,958 --> 00:22:46,333
than paper, Bitcoin or

1133
00:22:46,333 --> 00:22:47,541
Bitcoin linked anything.

1134
00:22:48,958 --> 00:22:49,166
Yeah.

1135
00:22:49,166 --> 00:22:50,666
So I see it as

1136
00:22:50,666 --> 00:22:51,291
like, a

1137
00:22:51,291 --> 00:22:53,208
bank account is really a two

1138
00:22:53,208 --> 00:22:53,625
out of three

1139
00:22:53,625 --> 00:22:54,541
multisig between

1140
00:22:54,541 --> 00:22:55,250
you, the bank

1141
00:22:55,250 --> 00:22:56,666
and the government.

1142
00:22:56,666 --> 00:22:58,541
So, so so the, the

1143
00:22:58,541 --> 00:22:59,458
the ratio is

1144
00:22:59,458 --> 00:23:00,208
how much do you

1145
00:23:00,208 --> 00:23:01,666
trust yourself

1146
00:23:01,666 --> 00:23:03,500
in comparison to,

1147
00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:06,500
that 2 or 3 multisig.

1148
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:08,666
That's that's

1149
00:23:08,666 --> 00:23:09,625
the two you're comparing.

1150
00:23:09,625 --> 00:23:10,500
So how much do you trust

1151
00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:11,333
your own brain

1152
00:23:11,333 --> 00:23:12,500
and how much do you trust

1153
00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:14,333
the government basically.

1154
00:23:14,333 --> 00:23:16,166
Yep I agree.

1155
00:23:16,166 --> 00:23:17,583
Yeah.

1156
00:23:17,583 --> 00:23:19,791
And I think like for

1157
00:23:19,791 --> 00:23:20,666
for the US

1158
00:23:20,666 --> 00:23:22,375
you say like 1.5 for the US.

1159
00:23:22,375 --> 00:23:23,083
It sort of makes sense

1160
00:23:23,083 --> 00:23:24,791
because like the US

1161
00:23:24,791 --> 00:23:25,541
it's not it's

1162
00:23:25,541 --> 00:23:26,875
printing money like mad.

1163
00:23:26,875 --> 00:23:28,916
But it can because it's it's

1164
00:23:28,916 --> 00:23:30,250
the master money printer.

1165
00:23:30,250 --> 00:23:32,166
So it's taking

1166
00:23:32,166 --> 00:23:33,208
taking advantage

1167
00:23:33,208 --> 00:23:34,041
of all the other money

1168
00:23:34,041 --> 00:23:34,916
printers out there

1169
00:23:34,916 --> 00:23:36,208
in that sense.

1170
00:23:36,208 --> 00:23:38,833
And it's also,

1171
00:23:38,833 --> 00:23:40,666
not freezing assets

1172
00:23:40,666 --> 00:23:42,041
just randomly

1173
00:23:42,041 --> 00:23:43,541
that often like,

1174
00:23:45,666 --> 00:23:46,500
in that sense, you,

1175
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:48,333
you can sort of trust

1176
00:23:48,333 --> 00:23:49,291
the banking system

1177
00:23:49,291 --> 00:23:51,041
to a, to a, to a larger

1178
00:23:51,041 --> 00:23:52,166
extent than you can

1179
00:23:52,166 --> 00:23:53,875
the Turkish

1180
00:23:53,875 --> 00:23:54,625
banking system,

1181
00:23:54,625 --> 00:23:56,458
I guess, like

1182
00:23:56,458 --> 00:23:57,416
just an example.

1183
00:23:57,416 --> 00:23:57,583
Yeah.

1184
00:23:57,583 --> 00:23:59,083
And people feel like,

1185
00:23:59,083 --> 00:24:00,083
you know, to some degree,

1186
00:24:00,083 --> 00:24:00,666
people feel like

1187
00:24:00,666 --> 00:24:01,791
they have recourse

1188
00:24:01,791 --> 00:24:02,416
that you can

1189
00:24:02,416 --> 00:24:04,000
you can go after it with,

1190
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:04,416
you know, a

1191
00:24:04,416 --> 00:24:05,583
decent lawyer and,

1192
00:24:05,583 --> 00:24:07,541
and go seek some justice.

1193
00:24:07,541 --> 00:24:09,791
Or as you've seen with

1194
00:24:09,791 --> 00:24:10,500
the cycle,

1195
00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:11,666
the election cycle here,

1196
00:24:11,666 --> 00:24:12,083
you know, it's

1197
00:24:12,083 --> 00:24:13,166
kind of self-correcting.

1198
00:24:13,166 --> 00:24:13,916
So whether or not

1199
00:24:13,916 --> 00:24:15,291
you believe

1200
00:24:15,291 --> 00:24:16,000
there was a mass

1201
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,666
wave of the banking,

1202
00:24:18,666 --> 00:24:19,583
the people that wanted

1203
00:24:19,583 --> 00:24:20,666
to push that narrative

1204
00:24:20,666 --> 00:24:22,500
that there was,

1205
00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:23,750
were able to go and,

1206
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:24,208
you know,

1207
00:24:24,208 --> 00:24:26,958
basically influence DC

1208
00:24:26,958 --> 00:24:28,500
and kind of take over

1209
00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:29,625
in the in,

1210
00:24:29,625 --> 00:24:30,916
in a legal election

1211
00:24:30,916 --> 00:24:32,875
process with legal campaign

1212
00:24:32,875 --> 00:24:35,291
donations and legal lobbying

1213
00:24:35,291 --> 00:24:37,166
and, you know, essentially

1214
00:24:38,125 --> 00:24:40,041
legalize gambling

1215
00:24:40,041 --> 00:24:43,041
forever in America.

1216
00:24:44,083 --> 00:24:44,458
Yeah.

1217
00:24:44,458 --> 00:24:45,208
Oh, so

1218
00:24:45,208 --> 00:24:46,791
how how much do you think

1219
00:24:46,791 --> 00:24:47,833
the election like,

1220
00:24:47,833 --> 00:24:49,041
how much of this

1221
00:24:49,041 --> 00:24:50,333
recent bull run

1222
00:24:50,333 --> 00:24:52,416
is because of these,

1223
00:24:52,416 --> 00:24:54,125
bitcoin leveraged equities

1224
00:24:54,125 --> 00:24:54,916
and how much is

1225
00:24:54,916 --> 00:24:56,000
because of the election,

1226
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,875
like Trump was taking credit

1227
00:24:57,875 --> 00:24:59,083
for the whole thing I saw.

1228
00:24:59,083 --> 00:24:59,916
But like.

1229
00:24:59,916 --> 00:25:01,375
Well, they're intertwined.

1230
00:25:01,375 --> 00:25:03,750
Like I think the the,

1231
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:04,750
the red wave.

1232
00:25:04,750 --> 00:25:05,541
And then also

1233
00:25:05,541 --> 00:25:06,083
I mean, remember

1234
00:25:06,083 --> 00:25:08,000
there were a bunch of,

1235
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,291
there were a bunch of

1236
00:25:09,291 --> 00:25:10,000
crypto

1237
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,666
backed Democrats

1238
00:25:11,666 --> 00:25:13,833
that won their races as well

1239
00:25:13,833 --> 00:25:14,541
because it just doesn't

1240
00:25:14,541 --> 00:25:15,625
take that much money

1241
00:25:15,625 --> 00:25:17,500
to sway a horse race

1242
00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:18,375
for the most part,

1243
00:25:18,375 --> 00:25:19,041
unless you're going

1244
00:25:19,041 --> 00:25:19,541
after somebody

1245
00:25:19,541 --> 00:25:21,000
that shares a committee or,

1246
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:21,291
you know,

1247
00:25:21,291 --> 00:25:22,000
speaker of the House

1248
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:22,916
or something like that,

1249
00:25:22,916 --> 00:25:24,291
like a few hundred

1250
00:25:24,291 --> 00:25:25,041
thousand dollars

1251
00:25:25,041 --> 00:25:26,375
or a million bucks

1252
00:25:26,375 --> 00:25:27,416
will completely change

1253
00:25:27,416 --> 00:25:27,958
that race.

1254
00:25:27,958 --> 00:25:28,541
And, you know,

1255
00:25:28,541 --> 00:25:29,541
some district in Iowa

1256
00:25:29,541 --> 00:25:30,875
or something like that.

1257
00:25:30,875 --> 00:25:31,916
And, you know,

1258
00:25:31,916 --> 00:25:32,333
so they

1259
00:25:32,333 --> 00:25:33,750
they basically went

1260
00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:35,250
after candidates

1261
00:25:35,250 --> 00:25:36,208
on both sides.

1262
00:25:36,208 --> 00:25:37,500
This was like the Coinbase

1263
00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:38,833
and Andreessen Horowitz

1264
00:25:38,833 --> 00:25:39,208
and basically

1265
00:25:39,208 --> 00:25:41,541
all the crypto cabal people,

1266
00:25:41,541 --> 00:25:42,791
backed a bunch of candidates

1267
00:25:42,791 --> 00:25:44,250
on both sides

1268
00:25:44,250 --> 00:25:45,250
that would play ball

1269
00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:46,166
with the crypto guys

1270
00:25:46,166 --> 00:25:46,708
and get them out

1271
00:25:46,708 --> 00:25:47,958
of jail free.

1272
00:25:47,958 --> 00:25:49,375
And they

1273
00:25:49,375 --> 00:25:51,416
it was an 85% success rate,

1274
00:25:51,416 --> 00:25:52,875
85% of the candidates

1275
00:25:52,875 --> 00:25:53,708
that were backed by

1276
00:25:53,708 --> 00:25:54,916
the crypto PACs, one.

1277
00:25:56,666 --> 00:25:57,000
And so

1278
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,666
basically took over Congress

1279
00:25:59,666 --> 00:26:01,666
and the white House and,

1280
00:26:01,666 --> 00:26:02,000
you know,

1281
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:02,958
and it's it

1282
00:26:02,958 --> 00:26:03,833
is what it is like.

1283
00:26:03,833 --> 00:26:06,250
I, I think at this point,

1284
00:26:06,250 --> 00:26:07,541
it's the last battle.

1285
00:26:07,541 --> 00:26:07,916
And I've been

1286
00:26:07,916 --> 00:26:09,083
talking about this a lot.

1287
00:26:09,083 --> 00:26:10,041
You know,

1288
00:26:10,041 --> 00:26:13,041
frankly, for a year now,

1289
00:26:13,250 --> 00:26:15,208
Bitcoin has been separated

1290
00:26:15,208 --> 00:26:16,500
from crypto

1291
00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:18,208
in the minds of the market,

1292
00:26:18,208 --> 00:26:19,666
the media

1293
00:26:19,666 --> 00:26:20,291
and most

1294
00:26:20,291 --> 00:26:21,500
investors, investors

1295
00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:22,625
that actually have money,

1296
00:26:22,625 --> 00:26:23,541
they see bitcoin

1297
00:26:23,541 --> 00:26:24,208
as like saving

1298
00:26:24,208 --> 00:26:25,291
and investing.

1299
00:26:25,291 --> 00:26:27,208
And then crypto is gambling.

1300
00:26:27,208 --> 00:26:28,208
And so

1301
00:26:28,208 --> 00:26:30,166
and just paying attention

1302
00:26:30,166 --> 00:26:31,375
to like the media landscape

1303
00:26:31,375 --> 00:26:32,250
I've had,

1304
00:26:32,250 --> 00:26:33,250
you know, enough

1305
00:26:33,250 --> 00:26:34,208
enough bandwidth

1306
00:26:34,208 --> 00:26:35,208
the last couple of years

1307
00:26:35,208 --> 00:26:36,166
after startup mode

1308
00:26:36,166 --> 00:26:37,375
to start paying attention

1309
00:26:37,375 --> 00:26:38,250
to basketball again,

1310
00:26:38,250 --> 00:26:40,208
which is awesome.

1311
00:26:40,208 --> 00:26:41,375
It ain't the 90s.

1312
00:26:41,375 --> 00:26:42,000
It's not the balls

1313
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:42,875
and the Sonics, but,

1314
00:26:42,875 --> 00:26:43,541
you know, the product's

1315
00:26:43,541 --> 00:26:44,083
pretty good.

1316
00:26:44,083 --> 00:26:44,583
And the

1317
00:26:44,583 --> 00:26:45,500
the player, the talented.

1318
00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:47,291
But all of the advertisement

1319
00:26:47,291 --> 00:26:48,541
is either crypto

1320
00:26:48,541 --> 00:26:50,125
or sports gambling.

1321
00:26:50,125 --> 00:26:50,833
And it's only

1322
00:26:50,833 --> 00:26:51,750
those two things.

1323
00:26:51,750 --> 00:26:52,791
And interestingly,

1324
00:26:52,791 --> 00:26:53,708
I now have a whole

1325
00:26:53,708 --> 00:26:54,416
different view

1326
00:26:54,416 --> 00:26:55,750
of like sports media

1327
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:57,958
because I work in Bitcoin

1328
00:26:57,958 --> 00:26:58,916
and observe

1329
00:26:58,916 --> 00:26:59,666
this other thing

1330
00:26:59,666 --> 00:27:00,416
called crypto

1331
00:27:00,416 --> 00:27:02,000
and how they do things

1332
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,458
and now I realize that

1333
00:27:03,458 --> 00:27:06,208
almost all of sports

1334
00:27:06,208 --> 00:27:07,458
is fueled by gambling

1335
00:27:08,708 --> 00:27:09,708
almost exclusively.

1336
00:27:09,708 --> 00:27:10,375
Like all the media

1337
00:27:10,375 --> 00:27:11,791
content is not about,

1338
00:27:11,791 --> 00:27:12,416
you know,

1339
00:27:12,416 --> 00:27:13,375
what's this interesting

1340
00:27:13,375 --> 00:27:14,125
in-depth interview

1341
00:27:14,125 --> 00:27:14,958
about this athlete

1342
00:27:14,958 --> 00:27:15,500
as a person?

1343
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:16,000
No, it's like

1344
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,000
the injury report

1345
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:17,708
so that somebody

1346
00:27:17,708 --> 00:27:19,250
can change their fantasy

1347
00:27:19,250 --> 00:27:20,458
football lineup or,

1348
00:27:20,458 --> 00:27:20,875
you know,

1349
00:27:20,875 --> 00:27:22,375
change the third leg

1350
00:27:22,375 --> 00:27:24,291
and their seven leg parlay.

1351
00:27:24,291 --> 00:27:25,541
And it's basically

1352
00:27:25,541 --> 00:27:27,291
it's it's all kind of

1353
00:27:27,291 --> 00:27:29,541
just a regressive tax

1354
00:27:29,541 --> 00:27:30,125
on people

1355
00:27:30,125 --> 00:27:30,958
that are gambling

1356
00:27:30,958 --> 00:27:32,125
to try to get ten bucks

1357
00:27:32,125 --> 00:27:33,500
or 100 bucks ahead on what

1358
00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:34,250
they're gambling,

1359
00:27:34,250 --> 00:27:34,958
instead of putting

1360
00:27:34,958 --> 00:27:35,708
a little bit away

1361
00:27:35,708 --> 00:27:36,291
and saving for

1362
00:27:36,291 --> 00:27:37,708
the long term.

1363
00:27:37,708 --> 00:27:38,291
And that's

1364
00:27:38,291 --> 00:27:39,750
what really is at play.

1365
00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:40,958
It's basically saving

1366
00:27:40,958 --> 00:27:42,083
versus gambling.

1367
00:27:42,083 --> 00:27:43,500
Is bitcoin versus

1368
00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:44,541
crypto in sports,

1369
00:27:44,541 --> 00:27:46,041
gambling in Vegas, in Macau

1370
00:27:46,041 --> 00:27:46,458
and all of

1371
00:27:46,458 --> 00:27:47,458
and running numbers

1372
00:27:47,458 --> 00:27:48,791
and all of these things

1373
00:27:48,791 --> 00:27:50,625
that that go back millennia.

1374
00:27:50,625 --> 00:27:51,958
Right. This is not new.

1375
00:27:51,958 --> 00:27:52,625
We saw people

1376
00:27:52,625 --> 00:27:53,875
like playing dice in Rome,

1377
00:27:53,875 --> 00:27:54,583
you know.

1378
00:27:54,583 --> 00:27:55,375
But I wasn't there.

1379
00:27:55,375 --> 00:27:57,500
But I know they weren't,

1380
00:27:57,500 --> 00:27:57,958
playing,

1381
00:27:57,958 --> 00:27:58,208
you know,

1382
00:27:58,208 --> 00:27:59,083
little gambling games

1383
00:27:59,083 --> 00:27:59,625
and stuff.

1384
00:27:59,625 --> 00:28:03,500
And it's just the education

1385
00:28:03,833 --> 00:28:05,375
of the lower

1386
00:28:05,375 --> 00:28:06,500
and middle classes

1387
00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:09,708
that you have a way now

1388
00:28:10,458 --> 00:28:12,500
to get ahead

1389
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:14,125
by just saving a little bit.

1390
00:28:15,208 --> 00:28:16,250
Whatever you can and

1391
00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:18,458
putting that into Bitcoin,

1392
00:28:18,458 --> 00:28:20,875
you know, that's that's

1393
00:28:20,875 --> 00:28:21,500
hopefully

1394
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:22,583
I mean we've seen that more

1395
00:28:22,583 --> 00:28:23,208
and more people

1396
00:28:23,208 --> 00:28:23,875
see it that way

1397
00:28:23,875 --> 00:28:24,250
and that it's

1398
00:28:24,250 --> 00:28:25,333
working out for them

1399
00:28:25,333 --> 00:28:26,000
because there was just

1400
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,291
a massive pleb class

1401
00:28:27,291 --> 00:28:29,833
that came in in like 17, 18.

1402
00:28:29,833 --> 00:28:32,833
And it's changed their lives

1403
00:28:33,208 --> 00:28:35,458
since then just by stacking

1404
00:28:35,458 --> 00:28:36,750
daily or weekly

1405
00:28:36,750 --> 00:28:38,208
since 2017, 2018,

1406
00:28:38,208 --> 00:28:39,208
2019, 2020.

1407
00:28:39,208 --> 00:28:39,708
It's it's

1408
00:28:39,708 --> 00:28:41,958
a big, big boost

1409
00:28:41,958 --> 00:28:43,666
and helping them

1410
00:28:43,666 --> 00:28:44,375
get their parents

1411
00:28:44,375 --> 00:28:45,791
retired and

1412
00:28:45,791 --> 00:28:47,291
buying cottages or whatever

1413
00:28:47,291 --> 00:28:48,000
it is you know,

1414
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:48,750
like it's it's

1415
00:28:48,750 --> 00:28:50,500
changing things for

1416
00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:51,541
for people

1417
00:28:51,541 --> 00:28:52,166
further down

1418
00:28:52,166 --> 00:28:54,250
the economic ladder,

1419
00:28:54,250 --> 00:28:55,083
which is beautiful.

1420
00:28:55,083 --> 00:28:55,500
So I just

1421
00:28:55,500 --> 00:28:56,208
I just hope more

1422
00:28:56,208 --> 00:28:57,458
and more people realize

1423
00:28:57,458 --> 00:28:58,625
that there is a way

1424
00:28:58,625 --> 00:28:59,166
to save

1425
00:28:59,166 --> 00:29:00,083
now that doesn't require

1426
00:29:00,083 --> 00:29:01,750
being a hedge fund manager

1427
00:29:01,750 --> 00:29:03,000
and that doesn't require,

1428
00:29:04,083 --> 00:29:05,541
permission to access.

1429
00:29:05,541 --> 00:29:06,375
That's the main thing.

1430
00:29:06,375 --> 00:29:07,375
Like, anybody can do it.

1431
00:29:07,375 --> 00:29:08,791
And that's never existed

1432
00:29:08,791 --> 00:29:09,541
before.

1433
00:29:09,541 --> 00:29:10,375
It's got me thinking,

1434
00:29:10,375 --> 00:29:11,708
by the way, that I,

1435
00:29:11,708 --> 00:29:12,750
I think

1436
00:29:12,750 --> 00:29:13,791
like you basically take

1437
00:29:13,791 --> 00:29:14,708
that, you know, the,

1438
00:29:14,708 --> 00:29:15,541
the big square

1439
00:29:15,541 --> 00:29:16,583
of the store of value

1440
00:29:16,583 --> 00:29:17,083
and it's like, well,

1441
00:29:17,083 --> 00:29:18,125
Bitcoin's down here

1442
00:29:18,125 --> 00:29:18,833
and here's stocks

1443
00:29:18,833 --> 00:29:19,541
and here's bonds

1444
00:29:19,541 --> 00:29:20,458
and here's real estate.

1445
00:29:20,458 --> 00:29:20,666
All right.

1446
00:29:20,666 --> 00:29:21,625
And all this stuff.

1447
00:29:21,625 --> 00:29:22,166
And it's like

1448
00:29:22,166 --> 00:29:23,000
you take that entire

1449
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,500
1 quadrillion box

1450
00:29:25,500 --> 00:29:26,750
and then you add another

1451
00:29:26,750 --> 00:29:27,750
1 quadrillion box

1452
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:28,291
next to it,

1453
00:29:28,291 --> 00:29:29,416
which is that

1454
00:29:29,416 --> 00:29:31,333
people will store more value

1455
00:29:31,333 --> 00:29:32,250
instead of

1456
00:29:32,250 --> 00:29:33,208
instead of wasting it

1457
00:29:33,208 --> 00:29:33,750
or spending it

1458
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:36,166
or gambling it,

1459
00:29:36,166 --> 00:29:36,750
it won't flow

1460
00:29:36,750 --> 00:29:39,208
into the earnings of

1461
00:29:39,208 --> 00:29:41,541
the gambling complex

1462
00:29:41,541 --> 00:29:43,333
it will get stored.

1463
00:29:43,333 --> 00:29:44,041
And so I think

1464
00:29:44,041 --> 00:29:44,666
we'll actually have

1465
00:29:44,666 --> 00:29:45,750
a massive expansion

1466
00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:46,708
just like,

1467
00:29:46,708 --> 00:29:48,833
you know, the example of,

1468
00:29:48,833 --> 00:29:49,166
you know, if

1469
00:29:49,166 --> 00:29:50,125
Uber was going to take

1470
00:29:50,125 --> 00:29:50,833
some percentage

1471
00:29:50,833 --> 00:29:51,666
of the cab market,

1472
00:29:51,666 --> 00:29:52,500
that kind of sucks.

1473
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:53,000
But if they were

1474
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,083
going to expand

1475
00:29:54,083 --> 00:29:55,583
dramatically the size of

1476
00:29:55,583 --> 00:29:57,000
the market, expand the Tam,

1477
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:57,333
the total

1478
00:29:57,333 --> 00:29:58,583
addressable market,

1479
00:29:58,583 --> 00:29:59,708
well, that's a big business.

1480
00:29:59,708 --> 00:30:00,000
I saw

1481
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,791
another example of this

1482
00:30:01,791 --> 00:30:03,375
just this week on Twitter.

1483
00:30:03,375 --> 00:30:03,750
It was,

1484
00:30:06,708 --> 00:30:07,666
God, what was it?

1485
00:30:07,666 --> 00:30:08,958
It was some kind of

1486
00:30:08,958 --> 00:30:09,541
I think it was

1487
00:30:09,541 --> 00:30:10,958
soc2 compliance.

1488
00:30:10,958 --> 00:30:11,750
So just think about

1489
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:12,541
security, right?

1490
00:30:12,541 --> 00:30:13,291
Like it's important

1491
00:30:13,291 --> 00:30:15,000
to partners of ours.

1492
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:15,583
You know, we work

1493
00:30:15,583 --> 00:30:16,125
with like

1494
00:30:16,125 --> 00:30:16,958
registered investment

1495
00:30:16,958 --> 00:30:18,208
advisors and, you know,

1496
00:30:18,208 --> 00:30:18,916
wealth managers

1497
00:30:18,916 --> 00:30:19,500
and shit like that.

1498
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:20,125
And they want to know

1499
00:30:20,125 --> 00:30:20,875
that like, okay,

1500
00:30:20,875 --> 00:30:22,625
are you guys soc2 compliant?

1501
00:30:22,625 --> 00:30:22,958
You know,

1502
00:30:22,958 --> 00:30:23,416
this is like

1503
00:30:23,416 --> 00:30:24,791
security things.

1504
00:30:24,791 --> 00:30:25,916
And that was really,

1505
00:30:25,916 --> 00:30:27,125
really expensive.

1506
00:30:27,125 --> 00:30:28,416
And the total Tam

1507
00:30:28,416 --> 00:30:29,625
for that annually in

1508
00:30:29,625 --> 00:30:31,291
the US was like $100 million

1509
00:30:31,291 --> 00:30:32,125
a year.

1510
00:30:32,125 --> 00:30:33,125
And a startup was like,

1511
00:30:33,125 --> 00:30:33,250
well,

1512
00:30:33,250 --> 00:30:33,583
we're going to

1513
00:30:33,583 --> 00:30:34,208
do that better.

1514
00:30:34,208 --> 00:30:34,958
And it was really hard

1515
00:30:34,958 --> 00:30:35,666
for them to raise

1516
00:30:35,666 --> 00:30:36,000
because they were

1517
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:36,291
like, well,

1518
00:30:36,291 --> 00:30:36,833
you're going to take

1519
00:30:36,833 --> 00:30:37,500
10% share

1520
00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:39,208
and make $10 million a year.

1521
00:30:39,208 --> 00:30:40,250
Who cares? Right?

1522
00:30:41,291 --> 00:30:42,708
They make $100 million a

1523
00:30:42,708 --> 00:30:43,208
year now

1524
00:30:43,208 --> 00:30:44,083
because they expanded

1525
00:30:44,083 --> 00:30:46,583
the market dramatically,

1526
00:30:46,583 --> 00:30:47,666
because people want

1527
00:30:47,666 --> 00:30:49,250
that credibility of Soc2

1528
00:30:49,250 --> 00:30:49,750
other partners

1529
00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:50,333
are asking for it.

1530
00:30:50,333 --> 00:30:50,833
They just couldn't

1531
00:30:50,833 --> 00:30:52,458
afford it before

1532
00:30:52,458 --> 00:30:54,833
it was made easier.

1533
00:30:54,833 --> 00:30:56,458
And so now we are making

1534
00:30:56,458 --> 00:30:57,916
well, not we we

1535
00:30:57,916 --> 00:31:00,958
we all Bitcoin itself.

1536
00:31:00,958 --> 00:31:01,333
Thanks.

1537
00:31:01,333 --> 00:31:03,791
Satoshi has made

1538
00:31:03,791 --> 00:31:05,333
storing value easier

1539
00:31:05,333 --> 00:31:06,625
so it's more attractive

1540
00:31:06,625 --> 00:31:07,625
to store value

1541
00:31:07,625 --> 00:31:08,666
than to do other things

1542
00:31:08,666 --> 00:31:10,750
with your value.

1543
00:31:10,750 --> 00:31:12,000
No it's fantastic.

1544
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,125
And from from an Austrian

1545
00:31:13,125 --> 00:31:14,291
economics perspective,

1546
00:31:14,291 --> 00:31:15,833
this is the process

1547
00:31:15,833 --> 00:31:17,000
of civilization

1548
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,000
having a lower time

1549
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:18,541
preference.

1550
00:31:18,541 --> 00:31:19,291
That's the

1551
00:31:19,291 --> 00:31:20,708
delayed gratification.

1552
00:31:20,708 --> 00:31:22,708
You know, saving up fish,

1553
00:31:22,708 --> 00:31:24,416
in order to save up time,

1554
00:31:24,416 --> 00:31:25,958
to construct a fishing net

1555
00:31:25,958 --> 00:31:27,083
or a fishing rod

1556
00:31:27,083 --> 00:31:29,000
to catch more fish per,

1557
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:29,875
per time unit.

1558
00:31:29,875 --> 00:31:31,541
That's that is civilization.

1559
00:31:31,541 --> 00:31:33,333
Savings is the thing.

1560
00:31:33,333 --> 00:31:34,416
And that is what fiat

1561
00:31:34,416 --> 00:31:36,083
is, has destroyed

1562
00:31:36,083 --> 00:31:36,833
to the point

1563
00:31:36,833 --> 00:31:38,625
where everyone's a gambler

1564
00:31:38,625 --> 00:31:39,416
and that is that.

1565
00:31:39,416 --> 00:31:40,166
That is what's

1566
00:31:40,166 --> 00:31:42,041
destroying civilization.

1567
00:31:42,041 --> 00:31:43,208
And the ability

1568
00:31:43,208 --> 00:31:44,708
giving back the ability

1569
00:31:44,708 --> 00:31:46,750
to save to to the people.

1570
00:31:46,750 --> 00:31:47,875
It's the it's

1571
00:31:47,875 --> 00:31:49,416
the process of civilization.

1572
00:31:49,416 --> 00:31:50,958
Like coming back and

1573
00:31:50,958 --> 00:31:51,833
and making us

1574
00:31:51,833 --> 00:31:53,041
civilized again.

1575
00:31:53,041 --> 00:31:54,250
And how ironic, then, that

1576
00:31:54,250 --> 00:31:55,333
the Bitcoin conferences

1577
00:31:55,333 --> 00:31:56,458
in Las Vegas this year.

1578
00:31:58,916 --> 00:32:00,208
But yeah,

1579
00:32:00,208 --> 00:32:02,000
it is low time preference.

1580
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:02,666
And that is what

1581
00:32:02,666 --> 00:32:04,625
this game is all about.

1582
00:32:04,625 --> 00:32:05,166
Yeah.

1583
00:32:05,166 --> 00:32:06,791
I mean they

1584
00:32:06,791 --> 00:32:08,708
if Bitcoin were a company,

1585
00:32:08,708 --> 00:32:09,708
I think that conference

1586
00:32:09,708 --> 00:32:10,583
would have,

1587
00:32:10,583 --> 00:32:11,458
violated its

1588
00:32:11,458 --> 00:32:12,500
licensing agreement

1589
00:32:12,500 --> 00:32:15,500
long time ago.

1590
00:32:16,166 --> 00:32:17,250
But anybody can use it.

1591
00:32:17,250 --> 00:32:17,750
And that's the

1592
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:20,583
beautiful part about it too.

1593
00:32:20,583 --> 00:32:21,166
Absolutely.

1594
00:32:21,166 --> 00:32:23,875
If the permission lessness.

1595
00:32:23,875 --> 00:32:24,875
Luke, what are your thoughts

1596
00:32:24,875 --> 00:32:26,916
on all of this?

1597
00:32:26,916 --> 00:32:27,833
Yeah.

1598
00:32:27,833 --> 00:32:30,791
I, I got,

1599
00:32:30,791 --> 00:32:32,250
little thread here

1600
00:32:32,250 --> 00:32:33,250
with the security angle,

1601
00:32:33,250 --> 00:32:35,125
and you mentioned SoC two.

1602
00:32:35,125 --> 00:32:35,875
This happens to

1603
00:32:35,875 --> 00:32:36,833
still be my day job

1604
00:32:36,833 --> 00:32:37,833
in cybersecurity.

1605
00:32:37,833 --> 00:32:39,333
And,

1606
00:32:39,333 --> 00:32:40,500
the a topic

1607
00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:41,416
that's that's kind of

1608
00:32:41,416 --> 00:32:42,750
come up for us

1609
00:32:42,750 --> 00:32:43,208
a little bit

1610
00:32:43,208 --> 00:32:44,583
lately is the trade off

1611
00:32:44,583 --> 00:32:45,375
that people have to make

1612
00:32:45,375 --> 00:32:46,333
between security

1613
00:32:46,333 --> 00:32:47,000
and convenience.

1614
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:48,541
And in the Bitcoin context,

1615
00:32:48,541 --> 00:32:49,250
what that really

1616
00:32:49,250 --> 00:32:49,916
comes down to

1617
00:32:49,916 --> 00:32:50,541
is that

1618
00:32:50,541 --> 00:32:52,166
exchanges are

1619
00:32:52,166 --> 00:32:53,625
the convenience,

1620
00:32:53,625 --> 00:32:54,958
but they also provide

1621
00:32:54,958 --> 00:32:55,583
a layer

1622
00:32:55,583 --> 00:32:57,416
of security in the sense

1623
00:32:57,416 --> 00:32:58,708
that the exchanges

1624
00:32:58,708 --> 00:32:59,458
themselves

1625
00:32:59,458 --> 00:33:01,041
are basically providing

1626
00:33:01,041 --> 00:33:01,791
the security

1627
00:33:01,791 --> 00:33:03,000
unless they get hacked.

1628
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:03,833
It's a it's a it's

1629
00:33:03,833 --> 00:33:04,416
a third party.

1630
00:33:04,416 --> 00:33:05,416
You have to trust it.

1631
00:33:05,416 --> 00:33:06,958
But if the exchange

1632
00:33:06,958 --> 00:33:07,666
is saying

1633
00:33:07,666 --> 00:33:08,958
that we are secure

1634
00:33:08,958 --> 00:33:10,375
to a certain extent,

1635
00:33:10,375 --> 00:33:11,875
then that's something

1636
00:33:11,875 --> 00:33:12,625
that's a little bit

1637
00:33:12,625 --> 00:33:13,958
easier than taking

1638
00:33:13,958 --> 00:33:15,625
full self-custody.

1639
00:33:15,625 --> 00:33:16,833
And we,

1640
00:33:16,833 --> 00:33:17,416
of course,

1641
00:33:17,416 --> 00:33:18,250
advocate for going

1642
00:33:18,250 --> 00:33:20,083
the full self-custody,

1643
00:33:21,208 --> 00:33:22,500
rabbit hole, all of that.

1644
00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:23,416
But it's it's

1645
00:33:23,416 --> 00:33:24,500
not necessarily

1646
00:33:24,500 --> 00:33:26,791
easy, straightforward.

1647
00:33:26,791 --> 00:33:27,625
Have you thought about

1648
00:33:27,625 --> 00:33:28,708
this challenge

1649
00:33:28,708 --> 00:33:30,083
in terms of onboarding

1650
00:33:30,083 --> 00:33:30,958
new people

1651
00:33:30,958 --> 00:33:32,416
into the ecosystem?

1652
00:33:32,416 --> 00:33:33,333
If we're going to run

1653
00:33:33,333 --> 00:33:34,750
into scalability problems,

1654
00:33:34,750 --> 00:33:35,666
basically with

1655
00:33:35,666 --> 00:33:36,125
with people

1656
00:33:36,125 --> 00:33:36,750
being able

1657
00:33:36,750 --> 00:33:37,916
to onboard

1658
00:33:37,916 --> 00:33:38,208
fully

1659
00:33:38,208 --> 00:33:39,291
into self-sovereign Bitcoin

1660
00:33:39,291 --> 00:33:40,500
because of this secure

1661
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:42,708
security, convenience,

1662
00:33:42,708 --> 00:33:44,958
issue here.

1663
00:33:44,958 --> 00:33:45,625
Yeah, for sure.

1664
00:33:45,625 --> 00:33:46,708
I think,

1665
00:33:46,708 --> 00:33:47,625
you know, I was a big reason

1666
00:33:47,625 --> 00:33:48,916
why we bought,

1667
00:33:48,916 --> 00:33:49,833
specter back

1668
00:33:49,833 --> 00:33:51,000
in 2022 and built

1669
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:51,625
Swan Vault,

1670
00:33:51,625 --> 00:33:52,375
which is,

1671
00:33:52,375 --> 00:33:52,958
you know,

1672
00:33:52,958 --> 00:33:54,625
I it seems pretty clear

1673
00:33:54,625 --> 00:33:56,458
it's the easiest,

1674
00:33:56,458 --> 00:33:57,208
simplest,

1675
00:33:57,208 --> 00:33:58,583
most understandable way

1676
00:33:58,583 --> 00:34:00,916
to onboard into multi-sig

1677
00:34:00,916 --> 00:34:02,000
and have self-custody

1678
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,250
with two out of three.

1679
00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:05,000
That's just what we hear

1680
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:05,750
over and over again

1681
00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:06,166
by people

1682
00:34:06,166 --> 00:34:06,958
that have been through that

1683
00:34:06,958 --> 00:34:08,291
and lots of other ways

1684
00:34:08,291 --> 00:34:08,875
to onboard.

1685
00:34:08,875 --> 00:34:09,833
It's just by far

1686
00:34:09,833 --> 00:34:10,500
the simplest.

1687
00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:11,000
And we

1688
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,208
we tried really hard

1689
00:34:12,208 --> 00:34:13,375
to make it boomer proof,

1690
00:34:14,375 --> 00:34:15,416
you know, and,

1691
00:34:15,416 --> 00:34:16,166
and it's

1692
00:34:16,166 --> 00:34:17,250
really fucking good.

1693
00:34:17,250 --> 00:34:18,000
And you've got

1694
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:18,958
an amazing team.

1695
00:34:18,958 --> 00:34:20,125
Some of the former specter

1696
00:34:20,125 --> 00:34:22,250
guys and reared in code,

1697
00:34:22,250 --> 00:34:22,791
you know

1698
00:34:22,791 --> 00:34:24,291
every day working on this,

1699
00:34:24,291 --> 00:34:25,708
making it amazing.

1700
00:34:25,708 --> 00:34:27,000
And and it is really,

1701
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:27,625
really good.

1702
00:34:27,625 --> 00:34:28,583
And so we are

1703
00:34:28,583 --> 00:34:29,625
getting a lot of clients

1704
00:34:29,625 --> 00:34:31,541
now go straight

1705
00:34:31,541 --> 00:34:32,625
from their first Bitcoin

1706
00:34:32,625 --> 00:34:35,291
purchase into a vault,

1707
00:34:35,291 --> 00:34:37,375
which is awesome.

1708
00:34:37,375 --> 00:34:38,291
I've always loved

1709
00:34:38,291 --> 00:34:39,291
the way that unchanged

1710
00:34:39,291 --> 00:34:39,625
as it

1711
00:34:39,625 --> 00:34:40,500
where you know,

1712
00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:42,000
every single customers

1713
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:43,208
in two out of three,

1714
00:34:43,208 --> 00:34:43,500
you know,

1715
00:34:43,500 --> 00:34:44,208
whether they're ready

1716
00:34:44,208 --> 00:34:45,916
to take two of the keys

1717
00:34:45,916 --> 00:34:46,916
or one of the keys

1718
00:34:46,916 --> 00:34:48,833
is up to them.

1719
00:34:48,833 --> 00:34:50,125
But the incentive is set up

1720
00:34:50,125 --> 00:34:50,958
the right way,

1721
00:34:50,958 --> 00:34:53,333
right where I think they,

1722
00:34:53,333 --> 00:34:54,708
if you take two keys

1723
00:34:54,708 --> 00:34:55,708
and Unchained holds one,

1724
00:34:55,708 --> 00:34:56,583
they don't charge you.

1725
00:34:56,583 --> 00:34:57,208
Or maybe it's like

1726
00:34:57,208 --> 00:34:58,291
minimal or something.

1727
00:34:58,291 --> 00:34:59,041
And then if they

1728
00:34:59,041 --> 00:35:00,375
take two keys

1729
00:35:00,375 --> 00:35:01,041
so they're trapped

1730
00:35:01,041 --> 00:35:02,250
because they have to.

1731
00:35:02,250 --> 00:35:03,333
I think Unchained has one.

1732
00:35:03,333 --> 00:35:03,750
And then they have

1733
00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:04,375
a trust company

1734
00:35:04,375 --> 00:35:04,916
down the street

1735
00:35:04,916 --> 00:35:05,750
that holds the other one

1736
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:07,083
or something like that.

1737
00:35:07,083 --> 00:35:08,000
So there's a little charge

1738
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:08,458
for that, which

1739
00:35:08,458 --> 00:35:09,291
totally makes sense.

1740
00:35:12,708 --> 00:35:15,583
I, I remain

1741
00:35:15,583 --> 00:35:18,583
not a fan of,

1742
00:35:18,666 --> 00:35:21,375
you know, kind of

1743
00:35:21,375 --> 00:35:22,416
not even having like,

1744
00:35:22,416 --> 00:35:23,458
a legal

1745
00:35:23,458 --> 00:35:25,291
structure difference.

1746
00:35:25,291 --> 00:35:25,833
Okay.

1747
00:35:25,833 --> 00:35:26,958
I think that's one thing

1748
00:35:26,958 --> 00:35:27,791
that some people miss

1749
00:35:27,791 --> 00:35:28,458
about the crypto

1750
00:35:28,458 --> 00:35:29,541
exchanges is like, once

1751
00:35:29,541 --> 00:35:29,958
you get over

1752
00:35:29,958 --> 00:35:32,083
a certain amount of Bitcoin,

1753
00:35:32,083 --> 00:35:32,458
you know,

1754
00:35:32,458 --> 00:35:33,208
you're going to

1755
00:35:33,208 --> 00:35:34,416
into Coinbase Vault,

1756
00:35:34,416 --> 00:35:34,916
like if you're a

1757
00:35:34,916 --> 00:35:35,791
Coinbase customer

1758
00:35:35,791 --> 00:35:37,250
and that that is actually

1759
00:35:37,250 --> 00:35:38,791
in a trust company.

1760
00:35:38,791 --> 00:35:40,166
So they own a trust company.

1761
00:35:40,166 --> 00:35:42,166
Gemini owns a trust company.

1762
00:35:42,166 --> 00:35:43,166
Bitcoin IRA owns

1763
00:35:43,166 --> 00:35:44,375
a trust company.

1764
00:35:44,375 --> 00:35:45,666
So they have segregation

1765
00:35:45,666 --> 00:35:47,833
of brokerage and custody,

1766
00:35:47,833 --> 00:35:48,958
which is how the traditional

1767
00:35:48,958 --> 00:35:50,041
finance world works.

1768
00:35:50,041 --> 00:35:50,458
And it's what

1769
00:35:50,458 --> 00:35:51,041
all of their

1770
00:35:51,041 --> 00:35:52,916
institutional customers

1771
00:35:52,916 --> 00:35:54,125
require.

1772
00:35:54,125 --> 00:35:54,625
And so I think

1773
00:35:54,625 --> 00:35:55,166
that's something

1774
00:35:55,166 --> 00:35:56,166
that a lot of people

1775
00:35:56,166 --> 00:35:56,916
miss that

1776
00:35:56,916 --> 00:35:58,833
with retirement clients,

1777
00:35:58,833 --> 00:36:00,125
with wealth manager

1778
00:36:00,125 --> 00:36:01,833
clients like we have

1779
00:36:01,833 --> 00:36:04,583
like they expect and require

1780
00:36:04,583 --> 00:36:05,250
in their due

1781
00:36:05,250 --> 00:36:06,791
diligence, separation

1782
00:36:06,791 --> 00:36:08,458
of brokerage and custody.

1783
00:36:08,458 --> 00:36:09,500
So we can't have it

1784
00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:11,250
all under one roof

1785
00:36:11,250 --> 00:36:12,000
unless we were going

1786
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:12,791
to have two different

1787
00:36:12,791 --> 00:36:14,041
ways of doing custody.

1788
00:36:15,291 --> 00:36:16,250
And so we can't do

1789
00:36:16,250 --> 00:36:17,500
it like River does,

1790
00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:18,291
and we can't do it

1791
00:36:18,291 --> 00:36:18,958
like Celsius

1792
00:36:18,958 --> 00:36:19,833
and FDX did

1793
00:36:19,833 --> 00:36:20,541
and have brokerage

1794
00:36:20,541 --> 00:36:22,250
in custody under one roof.

1795
00:36:22,250 --> 00:36:23,541
With that liability

1796
00:36:23,541 --> 00:36:24,500
of having your commingled

1797
00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:25,500
funds,

1798
00:36:25,500 --> 00:36:26,458
you know, in one place.

1799
00:36:26,458 --> 00:36:27,083
Right.

1800
00:36:27,083 --> 00:36:29,875
And, you know, I think that

1801
00:36:29,875 --> 00:36:31,166
we have to do a good job

1802
00:36:31,166 --> 00:36:32,041
of educating

1803
00:36:32,041 --> 00:36:34,291
why that's better

1804
00:36:34,291 --> 00:36:36,083
or just why that's

1805
00:36:36,083 --> 00:36:37,250
that's factual

1806
00:36:37,250 --> 00:36:37,916
and mandated

1807
00:36:37,916 --> 00:36:38,875
for the client segments

1808
00:36:38,875 --> 00:36:40,500
that we serve.

1809
00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:43,041
And, you know, and frankly,

1810
00:36:43,041 --> 00:36:44,083
the brokerage clients

1811
00:36:44,083 --> 00:36:45,166
we're trying to get them all

1812
00:36:45,166 --> 00:36:46,791
to take self-custody

1813
00:36:46,791 --> 00:36:48,083
or at least have like

1814
00:36:48,083 --> 00:36:51,083
our super elevated mega,

1815
00:36:51,166 --> 00:36:52,666
security custody

1816
00:36:52,666 --> 00:36:53,791
with that called

1817
00:36:53,791 --> 00:36:54,291
where they have to do

1818
00:36:54,291 --> 00:36:55,250
video calls and shit

1819
00:36:55,250 --> 00:36:55,708
like that.

1820
00:36:55,708 --> 00:36:56,666
So that's like,

1821
00:36:56,666 --> 00:36:57,083
you know,

1822
00:36:57,083 --> 00:36:59,458
mega secure or whatever.

1823
00:36:59,458 --> 00:37:00,458
And I think, you know,

1824
00:37:00,458 --> 00:37:01,833
somebody like

1825
00:37:01,833 --> 00:37:03,125
Unchained doesn't face that

1826
00:37:03,125 --> 00:37:04,083
because all their clients

1827
00:37:04,083 --> 00:37:04,916
are in a two out of three,

1828
00:37:04,916 --> 00:37:06,000
which I fucking love.

1829
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:06,750
It's just really hard

1830
00:37:06,750 --> 00:37:07,583
to scale.

1831
00:37:07,583 --> 00:37:07,916
Right.

1832
00:37:07,916 --> 00:37:09,833
They have they have a great

1833
00:37:09,833 --> 00:37:11,083
smaller set of clients.

1834
00:37:12,041 --> 00:37:13,250
And then otherwise,

1835
00:37:13,250 --> 00:37:14,250
you know, if you do the,

1836
00:37:14,250 --> 00:37:15,333
the full thing,

1837
00:37:15,333 --> 00:37:16,250
then you start.

1838
00:37:16,250 --> 00:37:16,791
So if you're,

1839
00:37:16,791 --> 00:37:18,000
if you're river,

1840
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,125
then you start to

1841
00:37:19,125 --> 00:37:19,916
educate people

1842
00:37:19,916 --> 00:37:20,875
on proof of reserve.

1843
00:37:20,875 --> 00:37:22,583
And you have to prove

1844
00:37:22,583 --> 00:37:24,166
sort of publicly

1845
00:37:24,166 --> 00:37:25,791
where the coins are,

1846
00:37:25,791 --> 00:37:26,125
you know,

1847
00:37:26,125 --> 00:37:26,666
and hopefully that

1848
00:37:26,666 --> 00:37:27,416
will get from,

1849
00:37:27,416 --> 00:37:27,750
you know,

1850
00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:28,666
monthly reports

1851
00:37:28,666 --> 00:37:29,916
to weekly reports

1852
00:37:29,916 --> 00:37:30,791
to daily reports

1853
00:37:30,791 --> 00:37:31,500
to real time

1854
00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:33,083
or I don't know what the

1855
00:37:33,083 --> 00:37:33,875
what the path

1856
00:37:33,875 --> 00:37:34,916
is to giving people

1857
00:37:34,916 --> 00:37:36,208
comfort of how

1858
00:37:36,208 --> 00:37:38,125
their coins are stored.

1859
00:37:38,125 --> 00:37:41,125
But I do think it, you know,

1860
00:37:41,416 --> 00:37:42,791
basically bifurcates

1861
00:37:42,791 --> 00:37:43,500
into people

1862
00:37:43,500 --> 00:37:46,250
kind of trusting somebody

1863
00:37:46,250 --> 00:37:48,583
versus trusting themselves

1864
00:37:48,583 --> 00:37:49,875
to some degree.

1865
00:37:49,875 --> 00:37:50,750
And and that is

1866
00:37:50,750 --> 00:37:51,458
why I, I just,

1867
00:37:51,458 --> 00:37:52,500
I just really like

1868
00:37:52,500 --> 00:37:53,541
the hand-holding

1869
00:37:53,541 --> 00:37:54,875
of collaborative custody.

1870
00:37:54,875 --> 00:37:55,625
And I always have

1871
00:37:55,625 --> 00:37:56,291
I've just been such

1872
00:37:56,291 --> 00:37:57,583
a huge fan

1873
00:37:57,583 --> 00:37:58,541
of Unchained approach

1874
00:37:58,541 --> 00:37:59,000
from the very

1875
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,708
beginning, back when I was,

1876
00:38:00,708 --> 00:38:01,583
like an advisor,

1877
00:38:01,583 --> 00:38:03,000
an early investor there,

1878
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,958
I just I always loved that.

1879
00:38:04,958 --> 00:38:05,833
And I think that's kind

1880
00:38:05,833 --> 00:38:08,416
of the that's the dominant,

1881
00:38:09,416 --> 00:38:10,708
you know, theoretically,

1882
00:38:10,708 --> 00:38:11,291
that's that's

1883
00:38:11,291 --> 00:38:12,750
the dominant place to be

1884
00:38:12,750 --> 00:38:15,291
is is for most people,

1885
00:38:15,291 --> 00:38:16,750
it can be easy enough

1886
00:38:16,750 --> 00:38:17,666
that the people that would

1887
00:38:17,666 --> 00:38:19,833
otherwise just choose

1888
00:38:19,833 --> 00:38:21,500
for third party custody,

1889
00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:22,875
you can get them into

1890
00:38:22,875 --> 00:38:24,000
collaborative

1891
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:24,916
where you may never

1892
00:38:24,916 --> 00:38:26,541
get those boomers

1893
00:38:26,541 --> 00:38:27,416
and I don't sorry,

1894
00:38:27,416 --> 00:38:28,250
mom and Dad,

1895
00:38:28,250 --> 00:38:28,750
you may never

1896
00:38:28,750 --> 00:38:29,750
get those people

1897
00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:30,750
that don't want to take

1898
00:38:30,750 --> 00:38:33,750
full self-custody to do it.

1899
00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:34,375
Now, this

1900
00:38:34,375 --> 00:38:36,083
entire thread is great.

1901
00:38:36,083 --> 00:38:37,458
The the the whole

1902
00:38:37,458 --> 00:38:38,500
collaborative custody thing.

1903
00:38:38,500 --> 00:38:38,833
We've

1904
00:38:38,833 --> 00:38:39,750
we've talked about this

1905
00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:40,375
a bunch.

1906
00:38:40,375 --> 00:38:41,125
We're we're,

1907
00:38:41,125 --> 00:38:42,416
we're good friends with,

1908
00:38:42,416 --> 00:38:43,666
the guys at the bitcoin

1909
00:38:43,666 --> 00:38:46,041
advisor Peter Dollars.

1910
00:38:46,041 --> 00:38:47,291
And they basically offer

1911
00:38:47,291 --> 00:38:48,333
like an extra layer

1912
00:38:48,333 --> 00:38:50,041
on, on top of this,

1913
00:38:50,041 --> 00:38:51,416
they work with Unchained

1914
00:38:51,416 --> 00:38:52,500
as well.

1915
00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:53,625
But but they, they do

1916
00:38:53,625 --> 00:38:54,250
the hand-holding

1917
00:38:54,250 --> 00:38:55,208
to get people on,

1918
00:38:55,208 --> 00:38:56,958
on there basically. And,

1919
00:38:57,916 --> 00:38:58,625
offer service.

1920
00:38:58,625 --> 00:38:59,625
By the way,

1921
00:38:59,625 --> 00:39:00,833
I like those guys.

1922
00:39:00,833 --> 00:39:03,625
There's another example.

1923
00:39:03,625 --> 00:39:04,791
Every single person

1924
00:39:04,791 --> 00:39:06,666
that signs up at say,

1925
00:39:06,666 --> 00:39:07,750
like you're automatically

1926
00:39:07,750 --> 00:39:09,250
into a multi-sig.

1927
00:39:09,250 --> 00:39:11,250
Yeah. Like, I know.

1928
00:39:11,250 --> 00:39:12,416
Your phone is a key.

1929
00:39:12,416 --> 00:39:12,833
And then

1930
00:39:12,833 --> 00:39:14,333
and I think they work with,

1931
00:39:14,333 --> 00:39:15,125
with the BTC

1932
00:39:15,125 --> 00:39:16,166
advisor guys too.

1933
00:39:16,166 --> 00:39:17,291
And like, it's really easy

1934
00:39:17,291 --> 00:39:18,500
to kind of tee up

1935
00:39:18,500 --> 00:39:20,125
somebody from Peter's squad

1936
00:39:20,125 --> 00:39:21,000
as, like a key

1937
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:21,750
agent or something

1938
00:39:21,750 --> 00:39:22,458
like that.

1939
00:39:22,458 --> 00:39:23,458
We talk to those guys too.

1940
00:39:23,458 --> 00:39:24,458
I love them and like,

1941
00:39:24,458 --> 00:39:25,041
I think we'll

1942
00:39:25,041 --> 00:39:26,083
probably figure out

1943
00:39:26,083 --> 00:39:27,708
how to integrate with that

1944
00:39:27,708 --> 00:39:29,375
at some point.

1945
00:39:29,375 --> 00:39:30,250
It's it's great.

1946
00:39:30,250 --> 00:39:30,666
And I mean,

1947
00:39:30,666 --> 00:39:31,583
the only reason I mentioned

1948
00:39:31,583 --> 00:39:34,375
it is, is just that they,

1949
00:39:34,375 --> 00:39:35,333
like, basically they,

1950
00:39:35,333 --> 00:39:35,750
they make it

1951
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:36,291
one step

1952
00:39:36,291 --> 00:39:37,375
even easier,

1953
00:39:37,375 --> 00:39:38,000
the kind of

1954
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,208
hand-holding of people

1955
00:39:39,208 --> 00:39:40,416
who want that kind of thing.

1956
00:39:40,416 --> 00:39:41,958
And I mean, yeah,

1957
00:39:41,958 --> 00:39:42,666
there's sort of this

1958
00:39:42,666 --> 00:39:43,375
sort of mix.

1959
00:39:43,375 --> 00:39:44,083
It's it's it's

1960
00:39:44,083 --> 00:39:45,041
something that does actually

1961
00:39:45,041 --> 00:39:46,500
still give you control,

1962
00:39:46,500 --> 00:39:49,500
but, but you have help.

1963
00:39:49,750 --> 00:39:50,750
You have help something,

1964
00:39:50,750 --> 00:39:51,625
something like that.

1965
00:39:51,625 --> 00:39:52,458
But you touched

1966
00:39:52,458 --> 00:39:53,416
on something,

1967
00:39:53,416 --> 00:39:54,333
really interesting.

1968
00:39:54,333 --> 00:39:55,208
And this is the

1969
00:39:55,208 --> 00:39:56,375
the Coinbase custody,

1970
00:39:56,375 --> 00:39:57,208
the Coinbase vault.

1971
00:39:57,208 --> 00:39:57,750
And I mean,

1972
00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:59,000
this is, as I understand it,

1973
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,125
where the majority

1974
00:40:00,125 --> 00:40:00,958
of the ETFs,

1975
00:40:00,958 --> 00:40:01,458
in fact,

1976
00:40:01,458 --> 00:40:02,875
all by the couple are,

1977
00:40:02,875 --> 00:40:05,041
are with Coinbase basically.

1978
00:40:05,041 --> 00:40:05,750
And is

1979
00:40:05,750 --> 00:40:06,750
is that a big

1980
00:40:06,750 --> 00:40:08,291
centralization risk.

1981
00:40:08,291 --> 00:40:09,083
Do you see this as

1982
00:40:09,083 --> 00:40:11,000
as similar systemically

1983
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:11,916
to well,

1984
00:40:11,916 --> 00:40:12,833
everything you talked about

1985
00:40:12,833 --> 00:40:13,875
with the

1986
00:40:13,875 --> 00:40:15,083
the micro strategies

1987
00:40:15,083 --> 00:40:15,875
and all this.

1988
00:40:15,875 --> 00:40:16,166
What do you

1989
00:40:16,166 --> 00:40:16,791
think about this?

1990
00:40:21,416 --> 00:40:24,416
It will diversify over time.

1991
00:40:24,625 --> 00:40:26,125
It was much easier

1992
00:40:26,125 --> 00:40:27,125
for them to all do

1993
00:40:27,125 --> 00:40:30,125
just Coinbase initially.

1994
00:40:30,166 --> 00:40:31,708
I think there are other

1995
00:40:31,708 --> 00:40:34,458
other reputable custodians

1996
00:40:34,458 --> 00:40:35,041
that are

1997
00:40:35,041 --> 00:40:36,208
getting pieces of these

1998
00:40:36,208 --> 00:40:36,625
and we'll,

1999
00:40:36,625 --> 00:40:37,041
we'll take

2000
00:40:37,041 --> 00:40:38,625
some of that share,

2001
00:40:38,625 --> 00:40:41,625
in the next year or two.

2002
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,250
And then I also think that,

2003
00:40:44,250 --> 00:40:44,583
you know,

2004
00:40:44,583 --> 00:40:46,750
they will be going into

2005
00:40:46,750 --> 00:40:48,375
multi-sig setups as well,

2006
00:40:48,375 --> 00:40:49,166
if they're not already.

2007
00:40:49,166 --> 00:40:50,125
And, you know,

2008
00:40:50,125 --> 00:40:50,500
kind of

2009
00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:51,416
they're probably already

2010
00:40:51,416 --> 00:40:52,375
in Multi-sig.

2011
00:40:52,375 --> 00:40:53,125
I would guess

2012
00:40:53,125 --> 00:40:54,000
that MicroStrategy

2013
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,833
probably is in a multi-sig,

2014
00:40:56,833 --> 00:40:57,500
with all of their

2015
00:40:57,500 --> 00:40:58,791
institutional relationships.

2016
00:40:58,791 --> 00:40:59,333
And I would

2017
00:40:59,333 --> 00:41:00,250
I would get that,

2018
00:41:00,250 --> 00:41:01,041
that they probably hold

2019
00:41:01,041 --> 00:41:01,916
the majority of the keys

2020
00:41:01,916 --> 00:41:04,916
in those setups to,

2021
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,000
so, you know,

2022
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,375
shades of gray.

2023
00:41:07,375 --> 00:41:07,833
It's not all

2024
00:41:07,833 --> 00:41:09,500
black and white.

2025
00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:12,500
I remain,

2026
00:41:12,791 --> 00:41:14,166
as I have since

2027
00:41:14,166 --> 00:41:15,958
since the launch of Swan.

2028
00:41:15,958 --> 00:41:18,291
There's only one entity

2029
00:41:18,291 --> 00:41:19,083
on the planet

2030
00:41:19,083 --> 00:41:20,750
that can really make things

2031
00:41:20,750 --> 00:41:22,166
ugly and dark

2032
00:41:22,166 --> 00:41:23,916
for Bitcoin and Bitcoiners.

2033
00:41:23,916 --> 00:41:25,041
For some period of time,

2034
00:41:25,041 --> 00:41:25,458
they'd still

2035
00:41:25,458 --> 00:41:26,500
lose in the end.

2036
00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:27,125
But it's only

2037
00:41:27,125 --> 00:41:27,875
the state Department

2038
00:41:27,875 --> 00:41:29,500
of the United States

2039
00:41:29,500 --> 00:41:30,458
that's the only

2040
00:41:31,708 --> 00:41:33,416
that's the only entity that

2041
00:41:33,416 --> 00:41:35,000
could coordinate something

2042
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:35,958
internationally

2043
00:41:35,958 --> 00:41:37,791
to make things suck.

2044
00:41:37,791 --> 00:41:38,208
And I

2045
00:41:38,208 --> 00:41:41,000
don't think that, like,

2046
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,708
it's not a risk anytime soon

2047
00:41:42,708 --> 00:41:43,666
because we can see

2048
00:41:43,666 --> 00:41:44,666
the world that we live in

2049
00:41:44,666 --> 00:41:45,541
and the way that

2050
00:41:45,541 --> 00:41:46,583
politics are working.

2051
00:41:46,583 --> 00:41:47,875
So something

2052
00:41:47,875 --> 00:41:48,958
dramatic would have to

2053
00:41:48,958 --> 00:41:50,708
change, like,

2054
00:41:50,708 --> 00:41:51,833
a big social change

2055
00:41:51,833 --> 00:41:52,375
in the US

2056
00:41:52,375 --> 00:41:53,750
that changes the government

2057
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:54,208
and how

2058
00:41:54,208 --> 00:41:55,875
the government works.

2059
00:41:55,875 --> 00:41:57,625
For me to really assign

2060
00:41:57,625 --> 00:41:59,083
a large risk

2061
00:41:59,083 --> 00:42:01,958
to something like that.

2062
00:42:01,958 --> 00:42:02,666
And you know what?

2063
00:42:02,666 --> 00:42:03,083
If they

2064
00:42:03,083 --> 00:42:04,083
nationalized the coins

2065
00:42:04,083 --> 00:42:07,083
in 61 or 2, it.

2066
00:42:07,291 --> 00:42:07,916
Just be glad

2067
00:42:07,916 --> 00:42:10,250
you have self-custody coins,

2068
00:42:10,250 --> 00:42:10,750
you know,

2069
00:42:10,750 --> 00:42:11,708
and if they want to

2070
00:42:11,708 --> 00:42:12,708
take some of the ETF

2071
00:42:12,708 --> 00:42:13,625
coins, like,

2072
00:42:13,625 --> 00:42:14,000
you know,

2073
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:14,458
that'll suck

2074
00:42:14,458 --> 00:42:16,541
for the ETF holders.

2075
00:42:16,541 --> 00:42:16,916
Yeah.

2076
00:42:16,916 --> 00:42:17,541
Trying to wrap

2077
00:42:17,541 --> 00:42:18,416
my head around that.

2078
00:42:18,416 --> 00:42:20,125
Like, would

2079
00:42:20,125 --> 00:42:21,000
it's one thing

2080
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,083
that the institution itself

2081
00:42:23,083 --> 00:42:25,208
has an incentive to do that.

2082
00:42:25,208 --> 00:42:26,666
But how

2083
00:42:26,666 --> 00:42:27,916
how do we get to a point

2084
00:42:27,916 --> 00:42:29,166
where all the people

2085
00:42:29,166 --> 00:42:30,291
in the institution

2086
00:42:30,291 --> 00:42:31,166
have the incentive

2087
00:42:31,166 --> 00:42:31,708
to do that,

2088
00:42:31,708 --> 00:42:33,166
because they at that point

2089
00:42:33,166 --> 00:42:34,541
they will probably be

2090
00:42:34,541 --> 00:42:36,208
have some exposure

2091
00:42:36,208 --> 00:42:37,291
to Bitcoin themselves.

2092
00:42:37,291 --> 00:42:37,583
Right?

2093
00:42:37,583 --> 00:42:39,916
It's very unlikely

2094
00:42:39,916 --> 00:42:41,166
that they won't.

2095
00:42:41,166 --> 00:42:41,875
And which means

2096
00:42:41,875 --> 00:42:42,958
they don't have an incentive

2097
00:42:42,958 --> 00:42:44,125
to ever pull that off.

2098
00:42:45,375 --> 00:42:45,833
What are your thoughts.

2099
00:42:45,833 --> 00:42:46,125
Yeah.

2100
00:42:46,125 --> 00:42:47,875
That's that's that's why

2101
00:42:47,875 --> 00:42:49,500
we think of institutions

2102
00:42:49,500 --> 00:42:51,875
as being made up of people

2103
00:42:51,875 --> 00:42:52,416
and people

2104
00:42:52,416 --> 00:42:53,791
who come into contact

2105
00:42:53,791 --> 00:42:55,250
with Bitcoin.

2106
00:42:55,250 --> 00:42:55,625
You know,

2107
00:42:55,625 --> 00:42:57,291
even if they were feds once,

2108
00:42:57,291 --> 00:42:59,458
they often become crypto

2109
00:42:59,458 --> 00:43:01,791
GPUs within a few years

2110
00:43:01,791 --> 00:43:02,666
with big bag

2111
00:43:02,666 --> 00:43:04,875
holdings of Bitcoin.

2112
00:43:04,875 --> 00:43:05,333
Yeah.

2113
00:43:05,333 --> 00:43:05,791
Who was

2114
00:43:05,791 --> 00:43:06,958
it was a Greenspan

2115
00:43:06,958 --> 00:43:07,625
that turned from

2116
00:43:07,625 --> 00:43:08,666
an Austrian economist

2117
00:43:08,666 --> 00:43:10,791
to a central banker.

2118
00:43:10,791 --> 00:43:12,000
Was one of the.

2119
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,541
Well, who was it?

2120
00:43:13,541 --> 00:43:14,833
I don't remember who it was,

2121
00:43:14,833 --> 00:43:15,416
but like

2122
00:43:15,416 --> 00:43:16,583
but the Bitcoin is doing

2123
00:43:16,583 --> 00:43:17,750
the opposite. It's my point.

2124
00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:18,416
Like it's

2125
00:43:18,416 --> 00:43:19,041
turning people

2126
00:43:19,041 --> 00:43:21,083
from central banking to,

2127
00:43:21,083 --> 00:43:22,000
to proper,

2128
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:22,791
proper

2129
00:43:22,791 --> 00:43:23,791
understanding of

2130
00:43:23,791 --> 00:43:25,833
how human beings work.

2131
00:43:25,833 --> 00:43:28,000
Yeah.

2132
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:28,708
So do you think.

2133
00:43:28,708 --> 00:43:29,375
This next

2134
00:43:29,375 --> 00:43:30,291
four years

2135
00:43:30,291 --> 00:43:31,708
gets us over

2136
00:43:31,708 --> 00:43:33,000
the hump politically?

2137
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,250
Realistically, like Trump

2138
00:43:35,250 --> 00:43:36,208
being in office

2139
00:43:36,208 --> 00:43:37,583
for four years

2140
00:43:37,583 --> 00:43:38,875
and likely

2141
00:43:38,875 --> 00:43:39,833
the executive

2142
00:43:39,833 --> 00:43:40,916
side of the administration

2143
00:43:40,916 --> 00:43:42,833
isn't at least opposing

2144
00:43:42,833 --> 00:43:44,125
Bitcoin.

2145
00:43:44,125 --> 00:43:45,708
So does that

2146
00:43:45,708 --> 00:43:46,833
does that actually give us

2147
00:43:46,833 --> 00:43:48,208
enough time, enough momentum

2148
00:43:48,208 --> 00:43:49,458
to really not have to

2149
00:43:49,458 --> 00:43:50,291
worry about this?

2150
00:43:50,291 --> 00:43:50,666
Because it

2151
00:43:50,666 --> 00:43:52,583
after a certain point,

2152
00:43:52,583 --> 00:43:53,458
really, is any of this

2153
00:43:53,458 --> 00:43:54,708
going to matter?

2154
00:43:54,708 --> 00:43:55,000
What do you do?

2155
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,541
You got 23 months.

2156
00:43:57,541 --> 00:43:58,500
What's going to get done?

2157
00:43:58,500 --> 00:43:59,125
We'll get done in the

2158
00:43:59,125 --> 00:44:00,208
next 23 months.

2159
00:44:01,708 --> 00:44:03,041
And it's a

2160
00:44:03,041 --> 00:44:04,250
matter of priorities.

2161
00:44:04,250 --> 00:44:05,333
Like, you know, how

2162
00:44:05,333 --> 00:44:06,208
how much is attention

2163
00:44:06,208 --> 00:44:07,916
going to be on on Bitcoin

2164
00:44:07,916 --> 00:44:08,625
and how much is it

2165
00:44:08,625 --> 00:44:09,916
going to be on,

2166
00:44:09,916 --> 00:44:10,583
you know, Department

2167
00:44:10,583 --> 00:44:11,083
of Government

2168
00:44:11,083 --> 00:44:14,083
efficiency and, you know,

2169
00:44:14,541 --> 00:44:16,458
rehashing old, old

2170
00:44:16,458 --> 00:44:17,583
wounds from various

2171
00:44:17,583 --> 00:44:18,500
political enemies,

2172
00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:19,625
things like that.

2173
00:44:19,625 --> 00:44:20,250
Just depends on

2174
00:44:20,250 --> 00:44:22,583
where the energy goes.

2175
00:44:22,583 --> 00:44:23,166
One thing

2176
00:44:23,166 --> 00:44:24,625
that I think any,

2177
00:44:24,625 --> 00:44:25,583
any impartial

2178
00:44:25,583 --> 00:44:26,958
observer can see about Trump

2179
00:44:26,958 --> 00:44:27,708
is he really likes

2180
00:44:27,708 --> 00:44:28,500
numbers go up

2181
00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:30,291
and he likes being,

2182
00:44:30,291 --> 00:44:31,375
credited for a number

2183
00:44:31,375 --> 00:44:32,416
going up.

2184
00:44:32,416 --> 00:44:34,500
And, you know, the

2185
00:44:34,500 --> 00:44:35,541
the I wouldn't

2186
00:44:35,541 --> 00:44:37,416
say the whispers, the shouts

2187
00:44:37,416 --> 00:44:38,666
out of the administration,

2188
00:44:38,666 --> 00:44:39,833
the incoming administration

2189
00:44:39,833 --> 00:44:40,250
are that

2190
00:44:40,250 --> 00:44:40,958
he really wants

2191
00:44:40,958 --> 00:44:43,416
to see Bitcoin 150 K

2192
00:44:43,416 --> 00:44:46,416
as soon as possible.

2193
00:44:46,875 --> 00:44:47,916
Yeah I saw.

2194
00:44:47,916 --> 00:44:48,583
Trump.

2195
00:44:48,583 --> 00:44:49,750
Yeah I saw Eric

2196
00:44:49,750 --> 00:44:51,500
Trump in Bitcoin

2197
00:44:51,500 --> 00:44:53,083
may not in Abu Dhabi.

2198
00:44:53,083 --> 00:44:54,208
You're talking about

2199
00:44:54,208 --> 00:44:55,291
like he's

2200
00:44:55,291 --> 00:44:56,916
halfway there Maxie.

2201
00:44:56,916 --> 00:44:57,541
Like he's

2202
00:44:57,541 --> 00:44:59,250
still a crypto guy.

2203
00:44:59,250 --> 00:45:00,291
But listen.

2204
00:45:00,291 --> 00:45:01,541
Yeah he he seems.

2205
00:45:01,541 --> 00:45:02,750
Like he gets it. Yeah.

2206
00:45:02,750 --> 00:45:03,125
He wasn't

2207
00:45:03,125 --> 00:45:04,000
speaking from notes.

2208
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,625
It was pretty town. Like he.

2209
00:45:05,625 --> 00:45:07,708
You gets what Bitcoin is

2210
00:45:07,708 --> 00:45:09,833
and talking about it

2211
00:45:09,833 --> 00:45:11,791
I mean it was like that.

2212
00:45:11,791 --> 00:45:12,625
That was actually

2213
00:45:12,625 --> 00:45:13,375
pretty impressive.

2214
00:45:13,375 --> 00:45:14,000
Somebody sent it to me

2215
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:14,875
I was at the airport

2216
00:45:14,875 --> 00:45:15,375
last night

2217
00:45:15,375 --> 00:45:15,958
I just watched

2218
00:45:15,958 --> 00:45:16,375
I don't know

2219
00:45:16,375 --> 00:45:16,958
how long it was,

2220
00:45:16,958 --> 00:45:17,375
but I watched

2221
00:45:17,375 --> 00:45:18,291
the three minute clip of it

2222
00:45:18,291 --> 00:45:19,250
and I was like,

2223
00:45:19,250 --> 00:45:19,833
that was actually

2224
00:45:19,833 --> 00:45:21,458
a lot better than like,

2225
00:45:21,458 --> 00:45:22,416
RFK two's

2226
00:45:22,416 --> 00:45:23,750
first Bitcoin speech.

2227
00:45:25,583 --> 00:45:26,250
Yeah, because

2228
00:45:26,250 --> 00:45:27,416
I mean, first of all,

2229
00:45:27,416 --> 00:45:28,458
it wasn't written for him

2230
00:45:28,458 --> 00:45:29,750
by somebody else,

2231
00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:30,708
which is nice.

2232
00:45:30,708 --> 00:45:31,625
Or maybe it was,

2233
00:45:31,625 --> 00:45:32,916
but he delivered it

2234
00:45:32,916 --> 00:45:34,875
at least.

2235
00:45:34,875 --> 00:45:36,000
So it was pretty frickin

2236
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,041
good.

2237
00:45:38,041 --> 00:45:38,500
Yeah.

2238
00:45:38,500 --> 00:45:39,208
It's it's

2239
00:45:39,208 --> 00:45:40,500
a fascinating time. Where.

2240
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:42,291
And but the reason I say

2241
00:45:42,291 --> 00:45:44,208
23 months is because,

2242
00:45:44,208 --> 00:45:46,000
there will be a new Congress

2243
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,291
in 26 most presidents

2244
00:45:49,291 --> 00:45:50,375
that are lame duck

2245
00:45:50,375 --> 00:45:51,375
presidents, essentially

2246
00:45:51,375 --> 00:45:52,375
because they can only serve

2247
00:45:52,375 --> 00:45:52,875
one term.

2248
00:45:52,875 --> 00:45:53,416
He's not running

2249
00:45:53,416 --> 00:45:54,583
for reelection.

2250
00:45:54,583 --> 00:45:55,500
So basically has

2251
00:45:55,500 --> 00:45:56,541
the first two years

2252
00:45:56,541 --> 00:45:57,791
to push through anything

2253
00:45:57,791 --> 00:45:59,500
that he really cares about.

2254
00:45:59,500 --> 00:46:00,791
And, you know,

2255
00:46:00,791 --> 00:46:03,041
nothing happens in December,

2256
00:46:03,041 --> 00:46:03,375
you know,

2257
00:46:03,375 --> 00:46:04,375
before the new Congress

2258
00:46:04,375 --> 00:46:05,000
comes in.

2259
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,250
So it's

2260
00:46:06,250 --> 00:46:07,041
it's probably really

2261
00:46:07,041 --> 00:46:09,041
just through Election Day

2262
00:46:09,041 --> 00:46:09,583
in early

2263
00:46:09,583 --> 00:46:12,583
November of 26 is the time,

2264
00:46:12,875 --> 00:46:14,541
but something that's on

2265
00:46:14,541 --> 00:46:15,791
on the menu

2266
00:46:15,791 --> 00:46:17,000
that I really didn't

2267
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:18,041
think would be on the menu

2268
00:46:18,041 --> 00:46:19,541
for another decade

2269
00:46:19,541 --> 00:46:21,375
is, getting rid of cap

2270
00:46:21,375 --> 00:46:22,375
gains tax in the US,

2271
00:46:22,375 --> 00:46:23,458
which is by far

2272
00:46:23,458 --> 00:46:24,833
the number one thing

2273
00:46:24,833 --> 00:46:26,166
that would change

2274
00:46:26,166 --> 00:46:27,750
Bitcoin dramatically.

2275
00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:29,000
It would be a huge

2276
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,541
step change

2277
00:46:30,541 --> 00:46:32,666
for Bitcoin number go up.

2278
00:46:32,666 --> 00:46:34,250
It would bring about Bitcoin

2279
00:46:34,250 --> 00:46:35,458
as a medium of exchange

2280
00:46:35,458 --> 00:46:36,083
ten years

2281
00:46:36,083 --> 00:46:37,041
earlier than whatever

2282
00:46:37,041 --> 00:46:39,125
your forecasts are.

2283
00:46:39,125 --> 00:46:39,875
Mine keep getting

2284
00:46:39,875 --> 00:46:40,500
pushed out.

2285
00:46:40,500 --> 00:46:41,666
I think I used to talk about

2286
00:46:41,666 --> 00:46:42,208
maybe we'll see

2287
00:46:42,208 --> 00:46:43,500
wide media change

2288
00:46:43,500 --> 00:46:45,500
by like 2030 to then.

2289
00:46:45,500 --> 00:46:46,583
I think earlier this year

2290
00:46:46,583 --> 00:46:47,833
I was saying 2035.

2291
00:46:47,833 --> 00:46:49,750
Now I'm probably like 2038.

2292
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:52,250
But it can start happening

2293
00:46:52,250 --> 00:46:52,916
this decade

2294
00:46:52,916 --> 00:46:53,583
if you get rid of cap

2295
00:46:53,583 --> 00:46:55,041
gains tax.

2296
00:46:55,041 --> 00:46:55,250
Yeah.

2297
00:46:55,250 --> 00:46:55,625
And that

2298
00:46:55,625 --> 00:46:57,208
that would be huge

2299
00:46:57,208 --> 00:46:59,625
2 to 2 years a Trump word

2300
00:46:59,625 --> 00:47:02,541
like you know, why are you

2301
00:47:02,541 --> 00:47:03,458
like huge.

2302
00:47:04,875 --> 00:47:05,541
No it will be.

2303
00:47:05,541 --> 00:47:06,083
Absolutely.

2304
00:47:06,083 --> 00:47:07,000
I just hope

2305
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,083
that he doesn't

2306
00:47:08,083 --> 00:47:10,791
replace Texas with tariffs.

2307
00:47:10,791 --> 00:47:11,541
But but

2308
00:47:11,541 --> 00:47:12,833
this starts of removing

2309
00:47:12,833 --> 00:47:15,125
those two at some point

2310
00:47:15,125 --> 00:47:17,750
because like,

2311
00:47:17,750 --> 00:47:20,708
no, but but still it's, it's

2312
00:47:20,708 --> 00:47:21,625
everything points

2313
00:47:21,625 --> 00:47:24,083
to, to this being

2314
00:47:24,083 --> 00:47:25,166
having a real potential

2315
00:47:25,166 --> 00:47:26,250
of making some change here.

2316
00:47:26,250 --> 00:47:27,666
But especially

2317
00:47:27,666 --> 00:47:29,458
I think Trump's kids,

2318
00:47:29,458 --> 00:47:31,291
being so positive,

2319
00:47:31,291 --> 00:47:33,250
it's not only,

2320
00:47:33,250 --> 00:47:34,291
the guy that has spoken

2321
00:47:34,291 --> 00:47:35,250
in Abu Dhabi,

2322
00:47:35,250 --> 00:47:37,000
it's also Barron Trump.

2323
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,041
It's an, it's name.

2324
00:47:38,041 --> 00:47:39,541
Barron.

2325
00:47:39,541 --> 00:47:41,541
The younger one,

2326
00:47:41,541 --> 00:47:42,166
And Danny's

2327
00:47:42,166 --> 00:47:42,958
making bank off

2328
00:47:42,958 --> 00:47:44,166
of crypto scams.

2329
00:47:44,166 --> 00:47:45,750
So, you know, like,

2330
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:46,500
you have to at least

2331
00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:47,583
be nice to Bitcoin

2332
00:47:47,583 --> 00:47:48,291
if you're going to scam

2333
00:47:48,291 --> 00:47:49,500
in crypto.

2334
00:47:49,500 --> 00:47:50,708
Yeah.

2335
00:47:50,708 --> 00:47:54,166
It's so you know so so yeah

2336
00:47:54,166 --> 00:47:54,875
fingers crossed.

2337
00:47:54,875 --> 00:47:56,500
We know Jared.

2338
00:47:56,500 --> 00:47:57,500
Ivanka as has been

2339
00:47:57,500 --> 00:47:58,500
Jared knows a shitload

2340
00:47:58,500 --> 00:47:59,083
about Bitcoin

2341
00:47:59,083 --> 00:47:59,750
and owns a ton.

2342
00:48:01,625 --> 00:48:02,000
Yeah.

2343
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:03,500
And this this is the

2344
00:48:03,500 --> 00:48:04,583
this is the fun part.

2345
00:48:04,583 --> 00:48:05,708
Like there

2346
00:48:05,708 --> 00:48:07,250
there is a Bitcoin

2347
00:48:07,250 --> 00:48:07,916
everywhere.

2348
00:48:07,916 --> 00:48:08,916
Like in every

2349
00:48:08,916 --> 00:48:10,833
social construct

2350
00:48:10,833 --> 00:48:11,583
around the world.

2351
00:48:11,583 --> 00:48:13,083
No matter if it's

2352
00:48:13,083 --> 00:48:13,958
head of the

2353
00:48:13,958 --> 00:48:15,041
if it's like,

2354
00:48:15,041 --> 00:48:16,958
months of party or,

2355
00:48:16,958 --> 00:48:19,875
corporation or,

2356
00:48:19,875 --> 00:48:20,833
a football team,

2357
00:48:20,833 --> 00:48:22,625
there's always one guy

2358
00:48:22,625 --> 00:48:23,250
that can't

2359
00:48:23,250 --> 00:48:24,833
shut up about Bitcoin.

2360
00:48:24,833 --> 00:48:25,791
And that guy keeps

2361
00:48:25,791 --> 00:48:26,833
being right over

2362
00:48:26,833 --> 00:48:27,833
and over again.

2363
00:48:27,833 --> 00:48:28,791
The sooner or later

2364
00:48:28,791 --> 00:48:29,333
everyone's going to

2365
00:48:29,333 --> 00:48:29,875
listen to him.

2366
00:48:29,875 --> 00:48:30,583
Guys, guys,

2367
00:48:30,583 --> 00:48:33,416
what is our identity

2368
00:48:33,416 --> 00:48:35,208
going forward if we've won

2369
00:48:35,208 --> 00:48:35,666
and we can't

2370
00:48:35,666 --> 00:48:36,291
just be like this

2371
00:48:36,291 --> 00:48:37,500
misanthrope in the corner,

2372
00:48:37,500 --> 00:48:38,541
like,

2373
00:48:38,541 --> 00:48:39,375
you know,

2374
00:48:39,375 --> 00:48:40,291
like, like,

2375
00:48:40,291 --> 00:48:41,333
do we just get to be normal

2376
00:48:41,333 --> 00:48:42,208
humans again?

2377
00:48:42,208 --> 00:48:42,458
It's.

2378
00:48:42,458 --> 00:48:43,708
Well, I'm an honorary.

2379
00:48:43,708 --> 00:48:45,500
It's that I'm an honorary

2380
00:48:45,500 --> 00:48:47,250
Seattleites, remember?

2381
00:48:47,250 --> 00:48:48,583
I wear that as a badge.

2382
00:48:48,583 --> 00:48:49,375
Yeah. So?

2383
00:48:49,375 --> 00:48:50,875
So I still have an identity

2384
00:48:50,875 --> 00:48:51,833
after after

2385
00:48:51,833 --> 00:48:53,458
hyperbolic conversation.

2386
00:48:53,458 --> 00:48:55,375
I like it, I like it.

2387
00:48:55,375 --> 00:48:55,666
Yeah.

2388
00:48:55,666 --> 00:48:56,291
It's,

2389
00:48:56,291 --> 00:48:57,750
it is much more pleasant

2390
00:48:57,750 --> 00:48:59,250
to just

2391
00:48:59,250 --> 00:48:59,791
be around

2392
00:48:59,791 --> 00:49:01,250
other people,

2393
00:49:01,250 --> 00:49:02,000
in person

2394
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:02,458
coming out of

2395
00:49:02,458 --> 00:49:04,166
Covid, bitcoins winning.

2396
00:49:04,166 --> 00:49:05,458
Everybody's interested.

2397
00:49:05,458 --> 00:49:06,750
Like, it's it is kind of,

2398
00:49:08,791 --> 00:49:09,416
you know, I

2399
00:49:09,416 --> 00:49:09,916
because I

2400
00:49:09,916 --> 00:49:10,166
had a

2401
00:49:10,166 --> 00:49:12,583
social professional circle,

2402
00:49:12,583 --> 00:49:13,708
for so long

2403
00:49:13,708 --> 00:49:14,541
in, like, West

2404
00:49:14,541 --> 00:49:16,125
Coast tech and, you know,

2405
00:49:16,125 --> 00:49:17,250
with venture capital

2406
00:49:17,250 --> 00:49:18,291
and startup founders

2407
00:49:18,291 --> 00:49:19,750
and putting on events

2408
00:49:19,750 --> 00:49:20,750
and going to events

2409
00:49:20,750 --> 00:49:21,958
and raising money and,

2410
00:49:21,958 --> 00:49:22,250
you know,

2411
00:49:22,250 --> 00:49:23,333
investing in companies

2412
00:49:23,333 --> 00:49:24,041
and all this stuff,

2413
00:49:24,041 --> 00:49:25,583
and it's like

2414
00:49:25,583 --> 00:49:27,125
you get into Bitcoin

2415
00:49:27,125 --> 00:49:27,500
and it's a

2416
00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:28,791
completely different

2417
00:49:28,791 --> 00:49:29,333
set of people

2418
00:49:29,333 --> 00:49:30,291
with no overlap

2419
00:49:30,291 --> 00:49:32,458
for all that time.

2420
00:49:32,458 --> 00:49:35,125
And now it's like

2421
00:49:35,125 --> 00:49:36,458
everybody's back

2422
00:49:36,458 --> 00:49:38,125
and you can hang out

2423
00:49:38,125 --> 00:49:38,500
with them

2424
00:49:38,500 --> 00:49:40,166
for you can get the benefits

2425
00:49:40,166 --> 00:49:41,166
of reconnecting

2426
00:49:41,166 --> 00:49:42,750
with your friends

2427
00:49:42,750 --> 00:49:43,750
and a lot more people

2428
00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:44,833
that you like to see,

2429
00:49:44,833 --> 00:49:45,833
but you didn't have the time

2430
00:49:45,833 --> 00:49:46,500
to keep up with.

2431
00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:47,041
Like I kept my

2432
00:49:47,041 --> 00:49:48,416
closest friends,

2433
00:49:48,416 --> 00:49:49,041
but now, like

2434
00:49:49,041 --> 00:49:49,708
just rolling

2435
00:49:49,708 --> 00:49:50,875
through New York,

2436
00:49:50,875 --> 00:49:51,708
like everybody

2437
00:49:51,708 --> 00:49:52,250
will come out.

2438
00:49:52,250 --> 00:49:52,750
If you say you're

2439
00:49:52,750 --> 00:49:53,333
getting together,

2440
00:49:53,333 --> 00:49:53,583
you know,

2441
00:49:53,583 --> 00:49:54,458
some Wall Street people

2442
00:49:54,458 --> 00:49:55,041
and some Bitcoin

2443
00:49:55,041 --> 00:49:56,166
people and like,

2444
00:49:56,166 --> 00:49:57,208
everybody will come out

2445
00:49:57,208 --> 00:49:58,166
and they're coming in from,

2446
00:49:58,166 --> 00:49:59,083
you know, wherever they live

2447
00:49:59,083 --> 00:49:59,708
with their families

2448
00:49:59,708 --> 00:50:00,500
now in new Jersey

2449
00:50:00,500 --> 00:50:01,166
or Brooklyn

2450
00:50:01,166 --> 00:50:02,875
or downtown or whatever.

2451
00:50:02,875 --> 00:50:03,500
And they'll

2452
00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:04,041
they'll meet up

2453
00:50:04,041 --> 00:50:04,708
for an evening.

2454
00:50:04,708 --> 00:50:06,000
And, and it's,

2455
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:07,083
it's just different.

2456
00:50:07,083 --> 00:50:08,750
And, and you're not

2457
00:50:08,750 --> 00:50:10,166
like bending their ear

2458
00:50:10,166 --> 00:50:11,375
to talk about bitcoin.

2459
00:50:11,375 --> 00:50:12,083
They're there to

2460
00:50:12,083 --> 00:50:13,041
talk about bitcoin.

2461
00:50:15,375 --> 00:50:16,166
Fantastic.

2462
00:50:16,166 --> 00:50:17,833
So so speaking of like

2463
00:50:17,833 --> 00:50:19,166
what are you looking forward

2464
00:50:19,166 --> 00:50:20,458
to the most like this

2465
00:50:20,458 --> 00:50:21,708
this upcoming year here.

2466
00:50:21,708 --> 00:50:24,708
Like whoa.

2467
00:50:26,750 --> 00:50:27,583
I mean, from a,

2468
00:50:27,583 --> 00:50:29,333
from a business standpoint,

2469
00:50:29,333 --> 00:50:30,958
just executing

2470
00:50:30,958 --> 00:50:33,083
because we were so fresh

2471
00:50:33,083 --> 00:50:34,875
and so new,

2472
00:50:34,875 --> 00:50:35,541
you know, the

2473
00:50:35,541 --> 00:50:38,541
like the retail peak for,

2474
00:50:40,041 --> 00:50:40,708
for retail

2475
00:50:40,708 --> 00:50:42,500
buying was like May

2476
00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:43,416
the price peak

2477
00:50:43,416 --> 00:50:44,750
was April of 21

2478
00:50:44,750 --> 00:50:45,625
and the retail

2479
00:50:45,625 --> 00:50:47,333
interest peak was May.

2480
00:50:47,333 --> 00:50:48,083
And then there was like

2481
00:50:48,083 --> 00:50:50,000
a leverage scam

2482
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:50,875
echo bubble

2483
00:50:50,875 --> 00:50:51,791
later in the year

2484
00:50:51,791 --> 00:50:54,666
basically to pump Solana.

2485
00:50:54,666 --> 00:50:56,750
You know, so

2486
00:50:56,750 --> 00:50:58,583
we basically missed it

2487
00:50:58,583 --> 00:51:00,208
because we were just just

2488
00:51:00,208 --> 00:51:02,666
DCA savings plans for 2020.

2489
00:51:02,666 --> 00:51:04,291
We started taking wires

2490
00:51:04,291 --> 00:51:05,000
in like November

2491
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,583
or December of 2020.

2492
00:51:07,583 --> 00:51:08,583
We announced

2493
00:51:08,583 --> 00:51:10,583
the start of Swan Private

2494
00:51:10,583 --> 00:51:13,500
in January of 21 to handle

2495
00:51:13,500 --> 00:51:14,541
like big purchases

2496
00:51:14,541 --> 00:51:14,916
and everything,

2497
00:51:14,916 --> 00:51:15,916
but it was basically just me

2498
00:51:15,916 --> 00:51:16,875
and yon.

2499
00:51:16,875 --> 00:51:17,625
And, you know,

2500
00:51:17,625 --> 00:51:18,250
there were no there

2501
00:51:18,250 --> 00:51:19,250
were no salespeople.

2502
00:51:20,708 --> 00:51:21,625
Actually, Breedlove

2503
00:51:21,625 --> 00:51:22,541
at one point

2504
00:51:22,541 --> 00:51:23,500
signed up to be

2505
00:51:23,500 --> 00:51:24,625
the head of Swan Private

2506
00:51:24,625 --> 00:51:25,583
and then decided,

2507
00:51:25,583 --> 00:51:26,875
I think he got a huge

2508
00:51:26,875 --> 00:51:29,041
pay in advance deal,

2509
00:51:29,041 --> 00:51:29,750
from Nydig

2510
00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:30,916
to sponsor his podcast.

2511
00:51:30,916 --> 00:51:31,916
So he decided to do that

2512
00:51:31,916 --> 00:51:34,916
instead of, instead of work.

2513
00:51:35,958 --> 00:51:36,916
Yeah, I remember

2514
00:51:36,916 --> 00:51:39,458
reading everything.

2515
00:51:39,458 --> 00:51:42,458
So then, you know, I think,

2516
00:51:42,666 --> 00:51:44,041
Steven Lipsky,

2517
00:51:44,041 --> 00:51:44,916
who runs Swan

2518
00:51:44,916 --> 00:51:46,375
Private, his first

2519
00:51:46,375 --> 00:51:47,250
full time day

2520
00:51:47,250 --> 00:51:48,875
at the company was May 1st,

2521
00:51:48,875 --> 00:51:51,208
after the price peak

2522
00:51:51,208 --> 00:51:52,791
and the first

2523
00:51:52,791 --> 00:51:54,875
month of the retail

2524
00:51:54,875 --> 00:51:57,208
interest peak.

2525
00:51:57,208 --> 00:51:58,041
And so we weren't

2526
00:51:58,041 --> 00:51:59,666
actually in market,

2527
00:51:59,666 --> 00:52:01,375
the last bull market,

2528
00:52:01,375 --> 00:52:03,291
which is crazy.

2529
00:52:03,291 --> 00:52:04,250
So it's been it's

2530
00:52:04,250 --> 00:52:05,250
been interesting just,

2531
00:52:05,250 --> 00:52:06,208
you know, making sure

2532
00:52:06,208 --> 00:52:07,500
all your systems are

2533
00:52:07,500 --> 00:52:08,333
rock solid

2534
00:52:08,333 --> 00:52:09,333
and that everything works.

2535
00:52:09,333 --> 00:52:10,041
And, you know,

2536
00:52:10,041 --> 00:52:11,000
you've got a team

2537
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:11,458
that's there

2538
00:52:11,458 --> 00:52:12,166
and ready

2539
00:52:12,166 --> 00:52:13,583
to rock and execute,

2540
00:52:13,583 --> 00:52:15,000
and you don't have

2541
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:15,833
the distraction

2542
00:52:15,833 --> 00:52:16,916
at the executive

2543
00:52:16,916 --> 00:52:18,708
level of the,

2544
00:52:18,708 --> 00:52:19,875
the mining business

2545
00:52:19,875 --> 00:52:20,666
and associated

2546
00:52:20,666 --> 00:52:22,166
relationships.

2547
00:52:22,166 --> 00:52:24,750
So you can focus 100% on,

2548
00:52:24,750 --> 00:52:25,125
you know,

2549
00:52:25,125 --> 00:52:26,125
the bitcoin investors

2550
00:52:26,125 --> 00:52:27,416
that you serve.

2551
00:52:27,416 --> 00:52:29,000
And so we are like

2552
00:52:30,208 --> 00:52:30,875
crushing it

2553
00:52:30,875 --> 00:52:31,708
and really geared

2554
00:52:31,708 --> 00:52:33,458
up for a lot more growth

2555
00:52:33,458 --> 00:52:34,250
and excited

2556
00:52:34,250 --> 00:52:34,958
to bring more products

2557
00:52:34,958 --> 00:52:35,458
to market.

2558
00:52:35,458 --> 00:52:36,833
So from a business side

2559
00:52:36,833 --> 00:52:38,208
that's that's all there

2560
00:52:38,208 --> 00:52:38,666
I think on

2561
00:52:38,666 --> 00:52:39,500
the personal side,

2562
00:52:39,500 --> 00:52:41,291
it's like,

2563
00:52:41,291 --> 00:52:41,541
you know,

2564
00:52:41,541 --> 00:52:42,000
how do you just

2565
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:42,500
keep your feet

2566
00:52:42,500 --> 00:52:43,541
on the ground?

2567
00:52:43,541 --> 00:52:44,250
Helps to be married

2568
00:52:44,250 --> 00:52:44,791
to a Turk.

2569
00:52:44,791 --> 00:52:45,625
That's generally going to

2570
00:52:45,625 --> 00:52:47,208
do the trick.

2571
00:52:47,208 --> 00:52:48,125
And having young kids

2572
00:52:48,125 --> 00:52:49,125
definitely helps as well,

2573
00:52:49,125 --> 00:52:49,375
because they

2574
00:52:49,375 --> 00:52:49,833
don't give a shit

2575
00:52:49,833 --> 00:52:51,750
what's going on at work.

2576
00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:52,708
But, you know,

2577
00:52:52,708 --> 00:52:54,500
it's it's almost just,

2578
00:52:54,500 --> 00:52:55,791
deliberately creating

2579
00:52:55,791 --> 00:52:56,750
a little bit of extra

2580
00:52:56,750 --> 00:52:58,375
transition time

2581
00:52:58,375 --> 00:53:00,083
between your, your work day

2582
00:53:00,083 --> 00:53:03,083
and, and, so I find myself,

2583
00:53:03,208 --> 00:53:03,583
you know, I'll be,

2584
00:53:03,583 --> 00:53:04,500
like, euphoric

2585
00:53:04,500 --> 00:53:05,125
on the day that,

2586
00:53:05,125 --> 00:53:05,583
you know,

2587
00:53:05,583 --> 00:53:06,625
Bitcoin goes

2588
00:53:06,625 --> 00:53:07,708
through 100 K or something.

2589
00:53:07,708 --> 00:53:09,041
And I'm like, okay,

2590
00:53:09,041 --> 00:53:10,791
I recognize that.

2591
00:53:10,791 --> 00:53:11,291
I'm probably

2592
00:53:11,291 --> 00:53:12,291
going to act like an ass

2593
00:53:12,291 --> 00:53:13,500
around my family right now.

2594
00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:14,250
So I'm going to go

2595
00:53:14,250 --> 00:53:16,375
take a walk for 20 minutes

2596
00:53:16,375 --> 00:53:17,125
and let myself

2597
00:53:17,125 --> 00:53:18,166
just kind of calm down

2598
00:53:18,166 --> 00:53:18,833
and be a little more

2599
00:53:18,833 --> 00:53:19,500
even keel.

2600
00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:20,250
It's like,

2601
00:53:20,250 --> 00:53:20,958
you know, just try to be

2602
00:53:20,958 --> 00:53:22,083
a grownup about this shit.

2603
00:53:25,291 --> 00:53:26,541
Now through that.

2604
00:53:26,541 --> 00:53:27,291
But yeah,

2605
00:53:27,291 --> 00:53:28,666
it sounds like you did the

2606
00:53:28,666 --> 00:53:29,625
the proper thing

2607
00:53:29,625 --> 00:53:30,833
a bitcoiners should do,

2608
00:53:30,833 --> 00:53:31,625
which is build

2609
00:53:31,625 --> 00:53:33,208
during a bear market.

2610
00:53:33,208 --> 00:53:34,375
It's like we're a

2611
00:53:34,375 --> 00:53:35,208
Bitcoin is build

2612
00:53:35,208 --> 00:53:36,125
a bear technology.

2613
00:53:36,125 --> 00:53:36,708
Like we should get

2614
00:53:36,708 --> 00:53:37,250
build a bear

2615
00:53:37,250 --> 00:53:39,000
to accept Bitcoin.

2616
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,250
One of these days.

2617
00:53:40,250 --> 00:53:41,833
Oh, fantastic.

2618
00:53:41,833 --> 00:53:42,375
I think

2619
00:53:42,375 --> 00:53:43,541
we're coming up on the

2620
00:53:43,541 --> 00:53:44,958
on the hour here.

2621
00:53:44,958 --> 00:53:46,083
So let's

2622
00:53:46,083 --> 00:53:46,916
thank you, Corey,

2623
00:53:46,916 --> 00:53:48,125
for coming back to the show.

2624
00:53:48,125 --> 00:53:49,291
And like,

2625
00:53:49,291 --> 00:53:50,166
is there anywhere

2626
00:53:50,166 --> 00:53:50,666
you would like

2627
00:53:50,666 --> 00:53:51,750
to send our listeners

2628
00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:52,708
an internal

2629
00:53:52,708 --> 00:53:53,791
or external like.

2630
00:53:53,791 --> 00:53:55,375
Well, I mean, honestly,

2631
00:53:55,375 --> 00:53:56,083
probably Twitter

2632
00:53:56,083 --> 00:53:56,875
is the best place,

2633
00:53:56,875 --> 00:53:57,958
so it's just my full name.

2634
00:53:57,958 --> 00:54:00,208
Cory Klippsten on Twitter.

2635
00:54:00,208 --> 00:54:01,208
Sorry on X.

2636
00:54:01,208 --> 00:54:01,958
So X.com

2637
00:54:01,958 --> 00:54:04,041
slash Cory Klippsten.

2638
00:54:04,041 --> 00:54:04,500
Generally,

2639
00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:05,208
if I have anything

2640
00:54:05,208 --> 00:54:06,083
worth saying,

2641
00:54:06,083 --> 00:54:07,500
I'll put the whole thing

2642
00:54:07,500 --> 00:54:08,708
or a version of it

2643
00:54:08,708 --> 00:54:11,333
on, on X and,

2644
00:54:11,333 --> 00:54:12,958
and my DMs are open

2645
00:54:12,958 --> 00:54:14,375
still, I believe,

2646
00:54:14,375 --> 00:54:15,083
so you can always

2647
00:54:15,083 --> 00:54:15,916
hit me up there too,

2648
00:54:15,916 --> 00:54:18,000
if you want to chat. Is is,

2649
00:54:19,166 --> 00:54:20,583
bitcoin debunking Corey

2650
00:54:20,583 --> 00:54:22,250
coming back anytime soon

2651
00:54:22,250 --> 00:54:22,750
or is there

2652
00:54:22,750 --> 00:54:23,875
no use for him anymore.

2653
00:54:23,875 --> 00:54:25,791
Like look at say look.

2654
00:54:25,791 --> 00:54:26,666
So first off

2655
00:54:26,666 --> 00:54:27,375
okay so this will be

2656
00:54:27,375 --> 00:54:28,500
the last one minute topic

2657
00:54:28,500 --> 00:54:29,083
because I want to hammer

2658
00:54:29,083 --> 00:54:30,416
this on.

2659
00:54:30,416 --> 00:54:32,958
I reject the role of like

2660
00:54:32,958 --> 00:54:34,041
shit coin pi

2661
00:54:34,041 --> 00:54:34,791
because I don't care

2662
00:54:34,791 --> 00:54:36,291
about average crypto scams.

2663
00:54:36,291 --> 00:54:37,250
I only ever cared

2664
00:54:37,250 --> 00:54:38,000
about the ones

2665
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:38,916
where they were talking shit

2666
00:54:38,916 --> 00:54:39,958
about Bitcoin

2667
00:54:39,958 --> 00:54:40,791
or doing something

2668
00:54:40,791 --> 00:54:42,208
that I like in or around

2669
00:54:42,208 --> 00:54:43,083
bitcoin that I thought

2670
00:54:43,083 --> 00:54:44,000
was bad for Bitcoin.

2671
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:44,875
So it was Daquan

2672
00:54:44,875 --> 00:54:45,958
with the bullshit bitcoin

2673
00:54:45,958 --> 00:54:47,375
Treasury muszynski

2674
00:54:47,375 --> 00:54:48,208
trying to get everybody's

2675
00:54:48,208 --> 00:54:48,583
bitcoin

2676
00:54:48,583 --> 00:54:49,958
for his Ponzi scheme.

2677
00:54:49,958 --> 00:54:51,541
And SBF who was talking shit

2678
00:54:51,541 --> 00:54:52,041
about bitcoin

2679
00:54:52,041 --> 00:54:52,500
all the time

2680
00:54:52,500 --> 00:54:53,125
and just, you know,

2681
00:54:53,125 --> 00:54:54,416
just had too much influence

2682
00:54:54,416 --> 00:54:55,333
that was contrary

2683
00:54:55,333 --> 00:54:55,833
to Bitcoin.

2684
00:54:55,833 --> 00:54:57,375
So you know those were

2685
00:54:57,375 --> 00:54:58,458
the ones that I went after.

2686
00:54:59,833 --> 00:55:00,958
I'm pretty sure you

2687
00:55:00,958 --> 00:55:02,375
can't meet any of them

2688
00:55:02,375 --> 00:55:05,375
for a coffee at this point.

2689
00:55:08,125 --> 00:55:09,416
So but you won't spend

2690
00:55:09,416 --> 00:55:09,875
any time

2691
00:55:09,875 --> 00:55:12,083
bashing this coin again.

2692
00:55:12,083 --> 00:55:12,833
I just think it's

2693
00:55:12,833 --> 00:55:13,375
I just think

2694
00:55:13,375 --> 00:55:14,375
it's the last battle

2695
00:55:14,375 --> 00:55:15,625
and it just doesn't matter.

2696
00:55:15,625 --> 00:55:16,250
Like Bitcoin

2697
00:55:16,250 --> 00:55:17,708
is just so separate

2698
00:55:17,708 --> 00:55:18,875
from crypto at this point.

2699
00:55:18,875 --> 00:55:20,125
And Bitcoin is investing

2700
00:55:20,125 --> 00:55:20,708
and saving

2701
00:55:20,708 --> 00:55:21,833
and crypto is gambling

2702
00:55:21,833 --> 00:55:22,375
and like

2703
00:55:22,375 --> 00:55:24,333
just let them play

2704
00:55:24,333 --> 00:55:25,583
with their crypto games

2705
00:55:25,583 --> 00:55:26,291
or whatever.

2706
00:55:26,291 --> 00:55:27,958
And you know,

2707
00:55:27,958 --> 00:55:29,250
bet on some sports

2708
00:55:29,250 --> 00:55:30,833
and bet on some meme coins.

2709
00:55:30,833 --> 00:55:32,250
And you know, it's sad

2710
00:55:32,250 --> 00:55:32,958
for the people

2711
00:55:32,958 --> 00:55:33,833
that really can't

2712
00:55:33,833 --> 00:55:35,333
afford to be doing that.

2713
00:55:35,333 --> 00:55:36,333
But, you know,

2714
00:55:36,333 --> 00:55:37,375
I got bigger

2715
00:55:37,375 --> 00:55:39,333
fish to fry and,

2716
00:55:39,333 --> 00:55:40,333
you know, it's,

2717
00:55:40,333 --> 00:55:41,875
it's time to just move on

2718
00:55:41,875 --> 00:55:42,833
and and

2719
00:55:42,833 --> 00:55:45,833
just do much, much more

2720
00:55:45,875 --> 00:55:46,583
on the,

2721
00:55:46,583 --> 00:55:47,416
on the positive

2722
00:55:47,416 --> 00:55:48,333
side of things, just

2723
00:55:48,333 --> 00:55:49,250
promoting Bitcoin.

2724
00:55:50,875 --> 00:55:51,375
Great.

2725
00:55:51,375 --> 00:55:52,125
Great to hear.

2726
00:55:52,125 --> 00:55:53,625
So once again

2727
00:55:53,625 --> 00:55:54,583
thanks for coming back.

2728
00:55:54,583 --> 00:55:56,000
And you're always welcome us

2729
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:56,333
you know.

2730
00:55:56,333 --> 00:55:57,500
So yeah

2731
00:55:57,500 --> 00:55:58,208
I hope to see you

2732
00:55:58,208 --> 00:55:59,041
in real life again

2733
00:55:59,041 --> 00:55:59,750
soon as well.

2734
00:55:59,750 --> 00:56:01,333
Yeah. Me too. Me too.

2735
00:56:01,333 --> 00:56:02,416
Great to see you guys.

2736
00:56:02,416 --> 00:56:03,958
Thanks for the time.

2737
00:56:03,958 --> 00:56:05,041
Thanks a lot Corey.

2738
00:56:05,041 --> 00:56:06,000
This has been the Bitcoin

2739
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:06,708
30 show.

2740
00:56:06,708 --> 00:56:07,625
Thank you for listening.