Oct. 24, 2023

Bullish on Bitcoin with Luke Mikic - Freedom Footprint Show 61

Bullish on Bitcoin with Luke Mikic - Freedom Footprint Show 61

In this episode we turn up our energy and our bullishness with Luke Mikic: digital nomad and bitcoin content creator across many platforms including CoinBeast.
In this super fun conversation we get to know Luke and what makes him so bullish. We explo...

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The Bitcoin Infinity Show

In this episode we turn up our energy and our bullishness with Luke Mikic: digital nomad and bitcoin content creator across many platforms including CoinBeast.

In this super fun conversation we get to know Luke and what makes him so bullish. We explore Bitcoin as a monetary technology and it’s adoption curve, business in a hyperbitcoinized world and the necessity of monetary velocity. We get some insights on producing Bitcoin content online and we debate how slow or quick adoption should be.

Connect with Luke on Twitter: https://twitter.com/LukeMikic21
Check out CoinBeast: https://www.coinbeast.com/

Chapters:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:01:50 - Welcoming Luke Mikic
00:05:31 - Why Luke is the Most Bullish Luke
00:07:26 - Bitcoin Altruism and Optimism
00:13:54 - Bitcoin Economics
00:31:17 - Bitcoin Education and Outreach
00:38:52 - Bitcoin and Honesty
01:02:34 - Number Go Up

The Freedom Footprint Show is hosted by Knut Svanholm and BTCPseudoFinn. We are concerned about your Freedom Footprint! Join us as we talk to #bitcoin philosophers about how #bitcoin can expand your Freedom Footprint and much more!

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Transcript
1 00:00:00,030 --> 00:00:04,080 I'm so bullish because I think there's seriously maybe 0. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,360 01 percent of the global population who actually understand Bitcoin. 3 00:00:07,570 --> 00:00:11,730 A lot of people say that there's 10 to 20 to 30 million users of Bitcoin 4 00:00:11,730 --> 00:00:13,750 and, you know, quote unquote crypto. 5 00:00:13,750 --> 00:00:17,330 But I think a very small subset of people actually understand Bitcoin. 6 00:00:17,330 --> 00:00:21,775 And when the world slowly begins to realize what Bitcoin is and why they 7 00:00:21,815 --> 00:00:24,555 desperately need it, I don't think there's going to be many Bitcoin 8 00:00:24,555 --> 00:00:26,415 available for them on exchanges for sale. 9 00:00:26,495 --> 00:00:27,815 So I am very, very bullish. 10 00:00:28,576 --> 00:00:31,516 Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint show, the Bitcoin 11 00:00:31,516 --> 00:00:35,166 philosophy show with Knut Svanholm and me, Luke the Pseudo Finn. 12 00:00:35,876 --> 00:00:39,916 Today, we turn up our energy and our bullishness with Luke Mikic, digital 13 00:00:39,916 --> 00:00:41,876 nomad and Bitcoin content creator. 14 00:00:42,315 --> 00:00:45,665 In this conversation, we get to know Luke and what makes him so bullish. 15 00:00:46,265 --> 00:00:49,446 We explore Bitcoin as a monetary technology, Business in a 16 00:00:49,446 --> 00:00:53,212 hyperbitcoinized world, and the necessity of monetary velocity. 17 00:00:53,634 --> 00:00:57,364 We also get some insight on producing bitcoin content online, and we 18 00:00:57,364 --> 00:00:59,484 debate how fast adoption should be. 19 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,210 Before we jump in, a quick reminder that the best way to support the show 20 00:01:03,250 --> 00:01:06,490 is to send us a boost or a stream of some sats using a value for value 21 00:01:06,510 --> 00:01:08,330 podcasting app such as Fountain. 22 00:01:09,045 --> 00:01:11,905 If you're listening to this show as a podcast, check it out on Fountain. 23 00:01:12,135 --> 00:01:14,425 You can earn sats from listening and you can support us and 24 00:01:14,435 --> 00:01:15,895 all your other favorite shows. 25 00:01:16,425 --> 00:01:19,875 You can also support us on Geyser or send sats directly to our lightning 26 00:01:19,875 --> 00:01:22,365 address, freedom at geyser dot fund. 27 00:01:22,845 --> 00:01:25,115 If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like the episode 28 00:01:25,115 --> 00:01:26,255 and subscribe to the channel. 29 00:01:26,825 --> 00:01:29,615 Even if you're listening as a podcast, head over to the YouTube 30 00:01:29,615 --> 00:01:31,155 channel and subscribe to us there. 31 00:01:31,175 --> 00:01:32,515 It would be a big help. 32 00:01:33,033 --> 00:01:35,133 And finally, we want to thank today's sponsors. 33 00:01:35,458 --> 00:01:40,118 AmberApp, WasabiWallet, OrangePillApp, TheBitcoinWay, and Geyser. 34 00:01:40,618 --> 00:01:43,018 All their information is in the description, we'll be talking 35 00:01:43,018 --> 00:01:44,078 a bit more about them later. 36 00:01:44,486 --> 00:01:49,836 And now, without further ado, here is Luke Mikic on the Freedom Footprint show. 37 00:01:50,494 --> 00:01:52,094 Luke, welcome to the Freedom Footprint Show. 38 00:01:52,104 --> 00:01:52,854 Thanks for joining us. 39 00:01:53,444 --> 00:01:54,794 Thank you so much for having me, lads. 40 00:01:54,794 --> 00:01:56,054 I'm ex pretty excited for this 41 00:01:56,904 --> 00:01:57,844 Oh, great to hear. 42 00:01:58,714 --> 00:02:00,754 This is, a dashing Luke Jr. 43 00:02:00,834 --> 00:02:03,004 as opposed to a Luke Jr. 44 00:02:03,014 --> 00:02:05,274 It's another Luke, and it's Luke Mickage. 45 00:02:06,114 --> 00:02:08,084 Live from where in the world exactly? 46 00:02:08,537 --> 00:02:10,397 I'm in Brazil right now, and it's, 47 00:02:10,681 --> 00:02:13,951 yeah, I, I'm pretty, I'm pretty open with my, uh, surroundings. 48 00:02:13,951 --> 00:02:16,201 I hope nobody tries a $5 wrench attack on me. 49 00:02:16,201 --> 00:02:18,361 I'm in Florian Opolis, Brazil right now. 50 00:02:18,361 --> 00:02:19,711 If anyone does want to try it. 51 00:02:20,064 --> 00:02:20,714 All right. 52 00:02:21,037 --> 00:02:23,777 And, uh, how long have you been in Brazil? 53 00:02:24,357 --> 00:02:26,127 the girlfriend and I did Rio for a month. 54 00:02:26,127 --> 00:02:29,667 We did Sao Polo for a month, and now we're in Florian Opolis for another month. 55 00:02:30,481 --> 00:02:31,751 Florinopolis. 56 00:02:32,581 --> 00:02:34,001 Sounds like Antonopolis. 57 00:02:34,761 --> 00:02:35,011 Sounds 58 00:02:35,261 --> 00:02:36,181 It does a little bit. 59 00:02:37,931 --> 00:02:38,511 It does. 60 00:02:38,621 --> 00:02:39,191 Funny enough. 61 00:02:39,191 --> 00:02:41,271 It's a, it's a little bit like it's namesake, Antonopolis. 62 00:02:42,061 --> 00:02:43,371 There's lots of Bitcoiners down here. 63 00:02:43,371 --> 00:02:45,106 It's a great little part of Brazil. 64 00:02:45,666 --> 00:02:49,056 Um, Polish is a city in, in Greek, right? 65 00:02:49,396 --> 00:02:52,316 Acropolis, all this mm-hmm. 66 00:02:53,022 --> 00:02:57,642 . And you're one of the people in the world who are actually more bullish than I am. 67 00:02:57,642 --> 00:03:00,272 aren't you or are in a race? 68 00:03:02,602 --> 00:03:03,202 let's do it. 69 00:03:03,202 --> 00:03:04,282 A friendly competition. 70 00:03:04,282 --> 00:03:05,842 I reckon we can get pretty bullish today. 71 00:03:07,412 --> 00:03:12,202 Yeah, we were having a small chat about who the most bullish Luke 72 00:03:12,212 --> 00:03:14,422 is, and we, it's probably you. 73 00:03:14,866 --> 00:03:15,236 So. 74 00:03:15,266 --> 00:03:16,016 broils on yet? 75 00:03:16,906 --> 00:03:19,916 We had Broyles on, uh, like half a year ago or something, right? 76 00:03:20,386 --> 00:03:21,386 maybe even earlier than 77 00:03:21,511 --> 00:03:21,761 Now. 78 00:03:21,761 --> 00:03:22,781 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 79 00:03:22,841 --> 00:03:27,721 Uh, when he was first kind of out in the, in the scene and, and all 80 00:03:27,721 --> 00:03:30,581 this, and around the same time you were coming on our radar too. 81 00:03:30,581 --> 00:03:34,031 And, uh, one thing just hasn't led to another quite soon enough. 82 00:03:34,031 --> 00:03:37,061 So super glad to have you here, first of all. 83 00:03:37,061 --> 00:03:44,561 And, can you give us the TLDR on your story and your Bitcoin story and why 84 00:03:44,561 --> 00:03:46,261 you're more bullish than Luke Broyles? 85 00:03:46,261 --> 00:03:46,446 Thanks. 86 00:03:47,556 --> 00:03:48,456 um, okay. 87 00:03:48,461 --> 00:03:50,226 I'll try to keep it as short as I can. 88 00:03:50,286 --> 00:03:52,296 Uh, Bitcoin came across my radar. 89 00:03:52,576 --> 00:03:56,276 When I was 19 at the time, I was at university studying a double 90 00:03:56,276 --> 00:03:57,796 major in maths and chemistry. 91 00:03:58,096 --> 00:04:01,726 I went down the rabbit hole pretty hard in three weeks, listened to just about every, 92 00:04:01,996 --> 00:04:06,246 episode and interview that Max Kaiser and Andreas Antonopoulos ever recorded. 93 00:04:06,556 --> 00:04:07,626 Uh, I learned enough about. 94 00:04:07,696 --> 00:04:10,526 Bitcoin in three weeks to come to the conclusion that I was not 95 00:04:10,526 --> 00:04:11,796 going to go back to university. 96 00:04:12,066 --> 00:04:13,096 So I took a gap year. 97 00:04:13,136 --> 00:04:16,996 I started my own personal training business with the sole goal, just to 98 00:04:17,146 --> 00:04:19,036 free up more time to learn about Bitcoin. 99 00:04:19,106 --> 00:04:19,826 That was 2017. 100 00:04:20,536 --> 00:04:23,296 And since then, I've just been talking shit about Bitcoin full 101 00:04:23,326 --> 00:04:26,406 time online for the past, you know, past three to four years. 102 00:04:26,406 --> 00:04:29,966 It took me a couple of years to wave through the, uh, the sea of 103 00:04:29,966 --> 00:04:32,486 shit coins there in 2018 and 2019. 104 00:04:32,486 --> 00:04:35,346 I learned my lessons and now I'm just trying to tell everybody. 105 00:04:35,651 --> 00:04:39,471 about the, uh, the Bitcoin gospel, because I do believe it's probably the 106 00:04:39,491 --> 00:04:43,431 biggest technological revolution we have ever discovered as a civilization. 107 00:04:43,651 --> 00:04:44,811 I think it's bigger than fire. 108 00:04:44,841 --> 00:04:46,301 I think it's bigger than the wheel. 109 00:04:46,301 --> 00:04:47,811 I think it's bigger than the internet. 110 00:04:48,121 --> 00:04:51,151 Uh, so that is potentially why I could be more bullish than 111 00:04:51,151 --> 00:04:52,871 my namesake, Luke Broyles. 112 00:04:52,891 --> 00:04:53,781 It could just be our youth. 113 00:04:53,871 --> 00:04:55,001 We are both in our twenties. 114 00:04:55,001 --> 00:04:58,031 We're both pretty young and crazy, but I'm pretty bullish myself. 115 00:04:58,031 --> 00:05:01,081 And I'm pretty excited to explore that rabbit hole with you lads today. 116 00:05:02,216 --> 00:05:05,776 Uh oh, I've just, uh, I've just graduated from my 20s, so yeah, I guess that's why 117 00:05:05,776 --> 00:05:07,216 I'm not nearly as bullish as you guys. 118 00:05:07,226 --> 00:05:08,376 Sorry, Knut, go ahead. 119 00:05:09,076 --> 00:05:12,986 Yeah, I'm just curious, is this radar of yours still in your possession, 120 00:05:13,026 --> 00:05:14,366 or did you sell it for sats? 121 00:05:15,521 --> 00:05:16,701 I've sold everything for sats. 122 00:05:16,711 --> 00:05:17,801 You can see I'm standing. 123 00:05:18,001 --> 00:05:19,741 There's no chairs behind me, lads. 124 00:05:20,031 --> 00:05:21,281 Everything's sold for sats. 125 00:05:22,656 --> 00:05:24,156 There's even a hole in the wall there. 126 00:05:24,681 --> 00:05:25,821 Exactly, have a look at it. 127 00:05:26,592 --> 00:05:29,072 We sold your TV as well as your radar, I guess, 128 00:05:29,777 --> 00:05:30,497 It's all gone. 129 00:05:31,662 --> 00:05:32,332 good to hear. 130 00:05:32,532 --> 00:05:37,402 I mean, there's not much use for a radar on dry land anyway. 131 00:05:38,266 --> 00:05:40,006 a good thing you picked up Bitcoin though. 132 00:05:40,129 --> 00:05:40,509 Yeah. 133 00:05:40,719 --> 00:05:45,549 So, so give us, a bit more depth on why you're so bullish about Bitcoin. 134 00:05:45,559 --> 00:05:49,369 Like why, what makes you see this in a way that other people don't? 135 00:05:49,389 --> 00:05:55,549 I know some people do, which this equation on my t shirt may allude to, my stance on 136 00:05:55,579 --> 00:06:00,679 bullishness, but, what does Bitcoin mean to you and why do you love it so much? 137 00:06:01,244 --> 00:06:02,784 I don't even know where to begin. 138 00:06:02,784 --> 00:06:06,034 I, I, I think just the fact that we've discovered digital scarcity, 139 00:06:06,074 --> 00:06:10,301 I think that's going to be an enormous, mind to F excuse my French. 140 00:06:10,301 --> 00:06:13,211 I don't want to get you guys kicked off YouTube, but I think when people 141 00:06:13,211 --> 00:06:16,487 come to realize that there's only 21 million Bitcoin, ever available for 142 00:06:16,537 --> 00:06:19,997 sale, I think you're going to see potentially the biggest supply squeeze, 143 00:06:20,357 --> 00:06:21,797 uh, in financial market history. 144 00:06:21,877 --> 00:06:25,197 I don't even think it's going to be close to any sort of a competition, 145 00:06:25,197 --> 00:06:28,617 but there's going to become a day in the future where every single person on 146 00:06:28,617 --> 00:06:29,877 planet earth is trying to buy Bitcoin. 147 00:06:30,437 --> 00:06:33,097 And today there's only 2 million Bitcoin sitting on exchanges. 148 00:06:33,377 --> 00:06:38,247 So I think a large majority of that 21 million supply is not going to 149 00:06:38,247 --> 00:06:39,417 move for the next hundred years. 150 00:06:39,687 --> 00:06:43,067 It's going to flow into the hands of people like Michael Saylor, who in 151 00:06:43,067 --> 00:06:46,027 his own words, if we believe Michael Saylor, I know some people don't, 152 00:06:46,057 --> 00:06:49,057 but I personally do, if you believe Michael Saylor, he's not going to 153 00:06:49,057 --> 00:06:50,267 sell his coins for a hundred years. 154 00:06:50,657 --> 00:06:53,687 There's, you know, Michael Saylor sitting on 150, 000 coins. 155 00:06:53,947 --> 00:06:54,157 There's 156 00:06:54,207 --> 00:06:56,837 No, it's a, he's going to die with them. 157 00:06:56,887 --> 00:06:59,757 At least that's what he alluded to on our show here. 158 00:06:59,757 --> 00:07:01,017 Luke, uh, Luke, right. 159 00:07:01,187 --> 00:07:01,507 Too many 160 00:07:01,537 --> 00:07:02,377 Please elaborate. 161 00:07:02,607 --> 00:07:02,957 Yep. 162 00:07:03,022 --> 00:07:05,682 is gonna get confusing if you just say Luke, Knut. 163 00:07:06,232 --> 00:07:11,122 You're Luke, our guest Luke, you're Luke for today, I can be something else, 164 00:07:11,282 --> 00:07:16,812 You can be Finn, other people have called you Finn because of the pseudo fin I call. 165 00:07:17,082 --> 00:07:20,282 Can I call you danger because I know that's your middle name? 166 00:07:21,002 --> 00:07:22,512 Yes, Danger is my middle name, 167 00:07:22,672 --> 00:07:22,972 Yeah. 168 00:07:22,972 --> 00:07:23,302 Yeah. 169 00:07:23,307 --> 00:07:23,702 Good, 170 00:07:23,847 --> 00:07:26,677 you could call me crazy hair Luke, that might be a little bit easier. 171 00:07:27,257 --> 00:07:27,742 Yeah. 172 00:07:27,772 --> 00:07:28,252 Okay. 173 00:07:28,352 --> 00:07:32,472 So, Michael Sailor was on the show and he said something that he has 174 00:07:32,472 --> 00:07:34,062 alluded to in other shows as well. 175 00:07:34,112 --> 00:07:38,532 What he said was like the most altruistic thing a person can do is 176 00:07:38,532 --> 00:07:42,412 die with their bitcoins in their heads, uh, because then you take them off 177 00:07:42,412 --> 00:07:45,572 market forever and you increase the scarcity of the, uh, of the thing. 178 00:07:45,892 --> 00:07:51,822 So, you help everyone on earth instead of giving them to a select few people, 179 00:07:51,922 --> 00:07:55,612 you give them to everyone, or you give the value of the scarcity To everyone. 180 00:07:55,832 --> 00:07:58,082 Uh, so what are your thoughts when you hear that? 181 00:07:58,721 --> 00:08:01,131 I feel like there's going to be a growing cohort of people 182 00:08:01,131 --> 00:08:02,491 who see Bitcoin the same way. 183 00:08:02,491 --> 00:08:05,671 I think all three of us on this call are probably going to do something similar. 184 00:08:05,991 --> 00:08:09,141 I know the small amount of coins that I sit on won't be 185 00:08:09,141 --> 00:08:11,281 moving for many, many decades. 186 00:08:11,311 --> 00:08:13,141 They'll be passed on to my future generations. 187 00:08:13,141 --> 00:08:14,591 I don't even have kids yet. 188 00:08:14,591 --> 00:08:15,861 I don't even have a wife yet. 189 00:08:15,931 --> 00:08:16,471 Sorry, honey. 190 00:08:16,471 --> 00:08:17,211 She's in the lounge room. 191 00:08:17,211 --> 00:08:18,271 She can hear me say that. 192 00:08:18,271 --> 00:08:19,611 There will be a ring coming one day. 193 00:08:19,971 --> 00:08:22,701 Uh, but I mean, like I, I'm not moving my Bitcoin for a long time. 194 00:08:22,701 --> 00:08:23,901 And I, I think the. 195 00:08:24,266 --> 00:08:27,806 10 20 or 30 thousands psychopaths on Twitter probably feel 196 00:08:27,806 --> 00:08:28,876 about Bitcoin the same way. 197 00:08:28,876 --> 00:08:33,016 And I'm so bullish because I think there's seriously maybe 0. 198 00:08:33,016 --> 00:08:36,296 01 percent of the global population who actually understand Bitcoin. 199 00:08:36,506 --> 00:08:40,666 A lot of people say that there's 10 to 20 to 30 million users of Bitcoin 200 00:08:40,666 --> 00:08:42,686 and, you know, quote unquote crypto. 201 00:08:42,686 --> 00:08:46,266 But I think a very small subset of people actually understand Bitcoin. 202 00:08:46,266 --> 00:08:50,711 And when the world slowly begins to realize what Bitcoin is and why they 203 00:08:50,751 --> 00:08:53,491 desperately need it, I don't think there's going to be many Bitcoin 204 00:08:53,491 --> 00:08:55,351 available for them on exchanges for sale. 205 00:08:55,431 --> 00:08:56,751 So I am very, very bullish. 206 00:08:57,349 --> 00:08:58,489 No, I totally agree. 207 00:08:58,525 --> 00:09:01,422 everyone underestimates this upcoming satsqueeze. 208 00:09:02,119 --> 00:09:06,409 that's what Adam Beck told us that, according to him and his interpretation 209 00:09:06,414 --> 00:09:10,784 of glass node data, there's a million or a million addresses with around one 210 00:09:10,784 --> 00:09:16,114 coin in them that they think are, uh, D CERs that have accumulated, that had 211 00:09:16,114 --> 00:09:23,279 the target of one coin and like, Only of like 2 million can do that maybe. 212 00:09:24,259 --> 00:09:28,369 But then it gets tricky because there just aren't enough coins and the people 213 00:09:28,369 --> 00:09:32,379 who already have one coin, many of them are going to want another coin. 214 00:09:33,189 --> 00:09:37,934 And, and also if people do the altruistic move and die with the coins. 215 00:09:37,964 --> 00:09:41,159 I mean we idiots here we are the first generation of Bitcoiners. 216 00:09:41,949 --> 00:09:46,699 And we're going to squander them away in droves, like there's not going to 217 00:09:46,699 --> 00:09:49,119 be much left for future generations. 218 00:09:49,709 --> 00:09:51,559 So whatever's left is good. 219 00:09:52,309 --> 00:09:56,186 It's still going to be divisible, but especially, on the Lightning Network 220 00:09:56,216 --> 00:10:02,496 and, and such like to, , infinitesimal parts, but they're going to be so scarce. 221 00:10:02,546 --> 00:10:06,626 So, just the same demand as now over a long enough time period. 222 00:10:07,476 --> 00:10:12,536 It also leads to that Heinz ketchup bottle effect, like gradually then suddenly. 223 00:10:12,746 --> 00:10:13,966 is that the way you see it too? 224 00:10:14,946 --> 00:10:15,366 Yeah. 225 00:10:15,396 --> 00:10:19,326 I think like, I think something in Bitcoin fundamentally changed three years ago. 226 00:10:19,496 --> 00:10:22,416 Like for the first time in Bitcoin's life, coins actually started 227 00:10:22,426 --> 00:10:24,466 leaving exchanges in March of 2020. 228 00:10:24,716 --> 00:10:28,876 for the first 10 years, that amount of Bitcoin sitting on exchanges only grew. 229 00:10:28,876 --> 00:10:30,536 So it went from zero to like 3 million. 230 00:10:30,866 --> 00:10:34,166 Today, we're sitting at around 2 million ish coins sitting on exchanges. 231 00:10:34,406 --> 00:10:37,296 So in the past three years, you've literally just watched a million 232 00:10:37,296 --> 00:10:38,936 coins disappear off exchanges. 233 00:10:39,216 --> 00:10:40,196 We don't know where they're going. 234 00:10:40,266 --> 00:10:43,676 All we know from that on chain data you mentioned there, Knut, is it's 235 00:10:43,676 --> 00:10:46,646 going to wallets who don't have a history of selling their Bitcoin. 236 00:10:47,101 --> 00:10:51,091 So I think like that supply squeeze, that ketchup bottle some sort 237 00:10:51,091 --> 00:10:52,151 of a squeeze that he's coming. 238 00:10:52,151 --> 00:10:53,691 I think it's going to come pretty, pretty soon. 239 00:10:54,001 --> 00:10:57,491 Uh, like if you extrapolate forwards the past three years of data, 240 00:10:57,681 --> 00:11:01,401 you've got no Bitcoin sitting on exchanges in around 2028, 2029. 241 00:11:01,401 --> 00:11:04,141 I mean, there's only 2 million Bitcoin sitting on exchanges. 242 00:11:04,481 --> 00:11:07,971 Um, and I've got a thesis that we're going to see some sort of billionaire FOMO. 243 00:11:08,281 --> 00:11:12,691 So Michael Saylor's got 150, 000 coins and right now there's only enough 244 00:11:12,711 --> 00:11:16,821 Bitcoin sitting on exchanges for like 10 or 11 or maybe 12 Michael Saylor 245 00:11:16,841 --> 00:11:21,611 to also accumulate 150, 000 coins that he holds between himself and 246 00:11:21,611 --> 00:11:23,761 his, micro strategy corporate entity. 247 00:11:23,911 --> 00:11:26,561 So you've got enough Bitcoin for 12 Michael Saylor and 248 00:11:26,561 --> 00:11:27,471 there's like, uh, what is it? 249 00:11:27,471 --> 00:11:31,431 Is there 50, 000 public companies and something like 3 to 4, 000 250 00:11:31,451 --> 00:11:36,571 billionaires all potentially fighting over 2, 000 Bitcoin left on exchanges? 251 00:11:37,556 --> 00:11:41,946 Yeah, this, this reminds me of a video we made a couple of years back about the 252 00:11:42,236 --> 00:11:47,286 S curve adoption of new technologies, where you have this ketchup effect, 253 00:11:47,316 --> 00:11:52,356 and then there's a saturation at the other end of the S, where it levels out. 254 00:11:52,796 --> 00:11:57,336 So like the TV or the smartphone or the internet, they all 255 00:11:57,336 --> 00:11:59,016 had S shaped adoption curves. 256 00:11:59,016 --> 00:12:02,189 And, it went very quickly for a short period. 257 00:12:02,189 --> 00:12:06,759 And then when everyone's, uh, basically everyone on earth is on board and has 258 00:12:06,759 --> 00:12:08,609 a smartphone, then it levels out again. 259 00:12:08,906 --> 00:12:12,046 and that is probably the case for Bitcoin as well. 260 00:12:12,676 --> 00:12:17,329 Uh, but the, the, the thing we argued for in that video is like, we don't really 261 00:12:17,329 --> 00:12:21,269 see that happening to the Bitcoin's price though, that will not follow an S curve. 262 00:12:21,819 --> 00:12:23,809 It would just continue to go up. 263 00:12:23,839 --> 00:12:27,956 And I've been thinking this over so many times and it's kind of hard to 264 00:12:27,956 --> 00:12:31,506 wrap your head around because like, there's something to be said for in 265 00:12:31,506 --> 00:12:35,196 a hyperbitcoinized world where the only thing that is used as a medium of 266 00:12:35,196 --> 00:12:38,056 exchange between people at all is Bitcoin. 267 00:12:38,476 --> 00:12:43,359 then Bitcoin will only reflect the total purchasing power of society. 268 00:12:43,989 --> 00:12:48,479 And that's expected to go up by five to 15 percent per year. 269 00:12:48,479 --> 00:12:51,089 So it is still appreciated 15%. 270 00:12:51,699 --> 00:12:56,659 But think that through one step further after hyperbitcoinization, 271 00:12:58,869 --> 00:13:01,039 we have a global free markets. 272 00:13:01,377 --> 00:13:05,297 based on sound money, no interventionism, nothing. 273 00:13:05,697 --> 00:13:10,644 And you add to that AIs and stuff, like it's just unstoppable what the 274 00:13:10,644 --> 00:13:14,044 human race can do with that power. 275 00:13:14,054 --> 00:13:15,037 Like, I don't think. 276 00:13:15,372 --> 00:13:21,592 15 percent growth is a given just because that's the case now when we measure 277 00:13:21,602 --> 00:13:24,782 bullshit metrics like BNP, GDP and stuff. 278 00:13:24,872 --> 00:13:29,942 BNP is the Swedish abbreviation, but it's GDP, which includes 279 00:13:30,052 --> 00:13:33,842 medication and stuff so the actual. 280 00:13:34,547 --> 00:13:38,587 Advancement of civilization will accelerate obviously, because the 281 00:13:38,587 --> 00:13:43,047 market is more well oiled, very much like I view the current fiat 282 00:13:43,197 --> 00:13:48,167 paradigm, global market as a dog on three legs at best, because there's 283 00:13:48,187 --> 00:13:52,857 interventionism everywhere, and therefore resource misallocation everywhere. 284 00:13:53,019 --> 00:13:54,181 what are your views on that? 285 00:13:54,241 --> 00:13:59,111 Will Bitcoin have an only up point where there's only upwards after that 286 00:13:59,111 --> 00:14:01,791 point and it cannot ever go down again. 287 00:14:01,891 --> 00:14:02,821 Like, how do you see that? 288 00:14:03,736 --> 00:14:07,536 Yeah, I think I actually, so I wrote an article on this topic in 2021 saying, 289 00:14:07,536 --> 00:14:10,216 look, Bitcoin's a monetary technology. 290 00:14:10,516 --> 00:14:13,426 If we think it's a technology that's going to go mainstream, it should follow 291 00:14:13,866 --> 00:14:16,256 this kind of S curve adoption path. 292 00:14:16,506 --> 00:14:20,646 And I remember specifically quoting that video that you guys made, uh, over 293 00:14:20,646 --> 00:14:25,436 on Ione Apperberg's YouTube channel, because it influenced my thinking a lot. 294 00:14:25,766 --> 00:14:29,826 And I think you guys actually said, no, Bitcoin is not an S curve. 295 00:14:30,026 --> 00:14:33,436 An S curve assumes that your adoption's actually going to level off at some stage. 296 00:14:33,776 --> 00:14:37,186 But as you kind of alluded to, Bitcoin's a monetary J curve. 297 00:14:37,236 --> 00:14:41,386 It's going up forever because Bitcoin is the savings account of the world. 298 00:14:41,486 --> 00:14:44,416 If the world continues to become more and more productive into the 299 00:14:44,416 --> 00:14:48,586 future, where are those continued productivity gains going to be stored? 300 00:14:48,886 --> 00:14:51,226 They're not going to be stored in some speculative tech 301 00:14:51,236 --> 00:14:52,456 stock like they are today. 302 00:14:52,646 --> 00:14:55,946 They're going to be stored in the world's dominant store of value, which is money. 303 00:14:55,946 --> 00:14:59,616 It's going to be stored in Bitcoin and Bitcoin is going to go up forever. 304 00:14:59,756 --> 00:15:04,426 So I think like, I think the biggest meme in Bitcoin today in 2023 is this 305 00:15:04,426 --> 00:15:06,606 idea of diminishing returns theory. 306 00:15:06,816 --> 00:15:10,346 Lots of people have drawn these cute little models over the past 12 years. 307 00:15:10,346 --> 00:15:13,256 And they've said, Oh, look, you know, Bitcoin's giving diminishing 308 00:15:13,256 --> 00:15:15,266 returns every four year bull market. 309 00:15:15,446 --> 00:15:18,626 And I think all of these stupid models like that are going to be absolutely. 310 00:15:19,686 --> 00:15:22,756 Um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, 311 00:15:22,756 --> 00:15:25,359 uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, 312 00:15:25,359 --> 00:15:28,252 uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, 313 00:15:28,252 --> 00:15:31,145 uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, 314 00:15:31,145 --> 00:15:34,038 uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, 315 00:15:34,038 --> 00:15:35,846 uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, 316 00:15:39,426 --> 00:15:51,346 uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh Bitcoin's an all or nothing binary bet, the same way 317 00:15:52,726 --> 00:15:56,926 CKE does, and I think it either becomes the dominant store of value for the 318 00:15:56,926 --> 00:15:58,626 world or it fails and it goes to zero. 319 00:15:58,976 --> 00:16:01,426 Um, so I think it's really an all or nothing kind of bet here. 320 00:16:01,907 --> 00:16:02,377 Yeah. 321 00:16:02,427 --> 00:16:05,307 That's so fascinating to think about. 322 00:16:05,487 --> 00:16:07,081 Because Bitcoin is. 323 00:16:07,571 --> 00:16:11,071 Deflationary, especially in the long run, like there's no way around that, 324 00:16:11,071 --> 00:16:13,031 especially as we start losing sats. 325 00:16:13,791 --> 00:16:17,301 Because after 2140, it's absolutely deflationary because 326 00:16:17,311 --> 00:16:19,124 more sats lost than found. 327 00:16:19,124 --> 00:16:19,174 Already, 328 00:16:21,237 --> 00:16:24,317 there's like 92 percent of the supply or something that have 329 00:16:24,787 --> 00:16:25,967 already been found, right? 330 00:16:26,384 --> 00:16:28,214 So most of the coins are already out there. 331 00:16:28,284 --> 00:16:32,694 And the remaining million, it's going to be mined over more than a hundred 332 00:16:32,694 --> 00:16:37,284 years, which is so weird to think about. 333 00:16:38,199 --> 00:16:41,589 the Keynesian argument is that deflation is bad because you don't 334 00:16:41,589 --> 00:16:46,249 get the velocity of money because people will spend less and they see 335 00:16:46,279 --> 00:16:48,839 every transaction as creating value. 336 00:16:49,124 --> 00:16:53,157 Which I think is flawed, because that doesn't take into account that 337 00:16:53,467 --> 00:16:57,705 people in that type of environment, in an inflationary environment, they 338 00:16:57,705 --> 00:17:00,995 will prioritize quantity over quality. 339 00:17:01,425 --> 00:17:05,665 So what Bitcoin does is it reverses that, uh, completely. 340 00:17:05,935 --> 00:17:07,450 I always like to say that it's... 341 00:17:07,930 --> 00:17:09,730 The one divided by clown world. 342 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,520 It's the literal inverse of the clown world over consumerist 343 00:17:13,650 --> 00:17:17,650 bullshit world where politicized everywhere thing we're living in now. 344 00:17:18,304 --> 00:17:22,554 so what that means is that everyone on earth will know the preciousness of 345 00:17:22,564 --> 00:17:26,534 their bitcoins and therefore they will be very careful with spending them. 346 00:17:26,834 --> 00:17:31,294 But envisioning what a hyperbitcoinized world actually looks like is 347 00:17:31,334 --> 00:17:36,309 so weird Everyone's stack will need to diminish over time. 348 00:17:36,649 --> 00:17:40,158 Very few people will actually be able to have black numbers 349 00:17:40,158 --> 00:17:41,158 on their balance sheets. 350 00:17:41,158 --> 00:17:43,658 Everyone's stack will go down over time. 351 00:17:43,968 --> 00:17:47,918 Still, their purchasing power can still go up since the value of the coins go up. 352 00:17:48,114 --> 00:17:50,768 or the value of everything else, then the coins go up. 353 00:17:50,768 --> 00:17:55,208 So I imagine a world where you can start a company, which by the way in the future is 354 00:17:55,213 --> 00:17:57,008 nothing but a telegram group or something. 355 00:17:57,248 --> 00:18:00,428 You don't really need every, all these other structures that are around 356 00:18:00,548 --> 00:18:04,898 companies, uh, legal structures and, you know, government imposed stuff. 357 00:18:04,932 --> 00:18:09,342 you just need a bunch of people who talk to one another to start a business and. 358 00:18:10,657 --> 00:18:16,610 I even see a scenario when people start businesses not to make 359 00:18:16,610 --> 00:18:22,380 more bitcoins, but to make their stacks diminish a little slower. 360 00:18:22,780 --> 00:18:27,730 it's like the derivative of the, the gain curve and not the gains themselves. 361 00:18:28,130 --> 00:18:29,950 So, there's so much to explore there. 362 00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:31,120 Have you given a. 363 00:18:31,570 --> 00:18:35,380 A lot of thought to a post hyperbitcoinization scenario, 364 00:18:35,380 --> 00:18:37,130 what that actually means. 365 00:18:38,450 --> 00:18:41,570 Yeah, I think it's gonna, like you say, I think it's gonna be 366 00:18:41,570 --> 00:18:42,950 the antithesis of CloudMortar. 367 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:44,710 Everything's gonna look so much different. 368 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,120 Today everybody's gorging on debt. 369 00:18:47,150 --> 00:18:49,560 There's like 400 trillion dollars of debt around the world. 370 00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:53,200 On a Bitcoin standard, I see that shrinking by 90%. 371 00:18:53,690 --> 00:18:56,920 Like it's just going to be really difficult to take out 372 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,820 debt in a form of money that's appreciating at such a rapid rate. 373 00:19:01,225 --> 00:19:05,125 Even if we're ultra conservative, and let's say Bitcoin's only appreciating at 374 00:19:05,155 --> 00:19:10,645 say like 5 or 10 percent per year, if you take out debt, you're going to have 375 00:19:10,645 --> 00:19:12,965 to outpace that appreciation of Bitcoin. 376 00:19:13,165 --> 00:19:16,545 You need to start a business that right out the bat is appreciating at 377 00:19:16,910 --> 00:19:19,190 Faster than 5 or 10 percent per year. 378 00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:20,260 And that's very difficult. 379 00:19:20,460 --> 00:19:22,820 How long has it taken Tesla to become profitable? 380 00:19:22,820 --> 00:19:24,210 I don't think they're even profitable. 381 00:19:24,330 --> 00:19:27,880 I think they rely only on government handouts and government subsidies. 382 00:19:28,220 --> 00:19:30,780 So some of the most successful and biggest companies around the world 383 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,097 today, only have the market cap that they do because they've been able to. 384 00:19:34,097 --> 00:19:35,067 Feast on this debt. 385 00:19:35,087 --> 00:19:37,067 They've been extraordinarily wasteful. 386 00:19:37,297 --> 00:19:40,497 They've been pursuing ideas that simply aren't profitable and the free market 387 00:19:40,497 --> 00:19:44,907 doesn't really, uh, you know, want, they don't desire the products they're making, 388 00:19:44,907 --> 00:19:49,237 like Budweiser, for example, all of the ridiculous marketing that they're doing 389 00:19:49,247 --> 00:19:51,247 around the world is completely uneconomic. 390 00:19:51,307 --> 00:19:53,457 They can only do it because there's a money printer. 391 00:19:53,457 --> 00:19:55,437 They can cozy up to and get endless debt. 392 00:19:55,717 --> 00:19:58,377 So I think there's going to be like a debt is probably the biggest thing. 393 00:19:58,752 --> 00:20:01,752 Potentially going to flip on a Bitcoin standard, and that's going to 394 00:20:01,752 --> 00:20:03,312 change everybody's time preference. 395 00:20:03,682 --> 00:20:06,792 Uh, you're going to have to change the way you think about money, and you're 396 00:20:06,792 --> 00:20:10,592 going to have to change the way you think about how you allocate your money and 397 00:20:10,592 --> 00:20:12,672 your savings, um, on a Bitcoin standard. 398 00:20:13,857 --> 00:20:19,507 Yeah, Budweiser might not be gay, but it's still like making love in a canoe. 399 00:20:20,397 --> 00:20:21,957 Like, it's fucking close to water. 400 00:20:22,462 --> 00:20:22,762 Yeah, 401 00:20:23,282 --> 00:20:24,312 Yeah, so... 402 00:20:24,755 --> 00:20:28,545 I'd like to explain another one of my current thoughts around what Bitcoin 403 00:20:28,545 --> 00:20:33,574 is, maybe you've heard it before that when you really think deep and 404 00:20:33,584 --> 00:20:37,619 hard about what owning a Bitcoin means or possessing a Bitcoin means, 405 00:20:38,019 --> 00:20:40,269 it's nothing but Keeping a secret. 406 00:20:40,728 --> 00:20:45,478 it's either the location of a Bitcoin private key or the actual private key 407 00:20:45,478 --> 00:20:49,848 itself, but it doesn't really matter you've hidden it properly, the secret 408 00:20:49,928 --> 00:20:55,888 is the Bitcoin, like whoever has that secret in their brains, has the Bitcoins 409 00:20:55,988 --> 00:20:58,618 and only brains can keep secrets. 410 00:20:58,718 --> 00:21:03,875 So, in effect, that means that we are our bitcoins, everyone in bitcoin is the 411 00:21:03,875 --> 00:21:11,475 bitcoins, and also if you think about miners and nodes, the computers used in 412 00:21:11,475 --> 00:21:16,455 mining and in just running a bitcoin node Each and every computer is just a fancy 413 00:21:16,455 --> 00:21:19,105 abacus that helps us, with calculation. 414 00:21:19,825 --> 00:21:22,555 So the, the ASIC is not the miner. 415 00:21:22,605 --> 00:21:25,865 It's the guy owning the ASIC and deciding to run the software. 416 00:21:26,625 --> 00:21:29,745 And the node is not the, it's not the Raspberry Pi. 417 00:21:29,805 --> 00:21:33,888 It's the guy who owns the Raspberry Pi and runs Umbra or whatever, or Bitcoin Core. 418 00:21:34,335 --> 00:21:37,745 So every participant in Bitcoin is those Bitcoins. 419 00:21:38,205 --> 00:21:42,435 And to me, this is one of the more philosophical rabbit holes 420 00:21:42,435 --> 00:21:46,565 to fall into in this, because that means we run this mathematical 421 00:21:46,615 --> 00:21:48,475 experiment in the back of our heads. 422 00:21:49,105 --> 00:21:55,335 And somehow it unlocks a way for us to, not only transact, but to interact 423 00:21:55,335 --> 00:22:00,603 with one another in ways that are, Possible to explore pre Bitcoin. 424 00:22:01,303 --> 00:22:05,563 So, so, so humanity gets into a whole new level and, and us three, for 425 00:22:05,563 --> 00:22:10,383 instance, we're all incentivized to help one another because we're Bitcoiners. 426 00:22:10,383 --> 00:22:14,673 And we know if we help other Bitcoiners succeed with whatever their 427 00:22:15,203 --> 00:22:19,413 endeavor is, we help Bitcoin succeed because we help other Bitcoiners. 428 00:22:19,893 --> 00:22:23,163 And it's not only that we, we all want Bitcoin to succeed. 429 00:22:23,213 --> 00:22:26,523 So we all want to, you know, quote unquote, pump our bags. 430 00:22:27,108 --> 00:22:30,878 You know, the power of hodling and the power of a low time preference. 431 00:22:31,275 --> 00:22:35,605 So we're all incentivized to keep a low time preference and help one another. 432 00:22:35,838 --> 00:22:41,438 And what I see that leading to is a world where money gets used less and less. 433 00:22:41,953 --> 00:22:45,073 Because everyone's incentivized to just be awesome to one another 434 00:22:45,663 --> 00:22:50,363 without exchanging anything, because everyone knows how precious sats are. 435 00:22:50,863 --> 00:22:54,493 And do you even need to transact at all if you could just help the 436 00:22:54,493 --> 00:22:57,463 other guy and you know you'll get something back sooner or later. 437 00:22:57,463 --> 00:23:01,056 So like, these are the more ephemeral thoughts I have around this. 438 00:23:02,021 --> 00:23:02,811 What are your thoughts? 439 00:23:04,041 --> 00:23:06,551 I think it's a really interesting rabbit hole to explore. 440 00:23:06,551 --> 00:23:09,031 It's something I haven't given a whole bunch of thought, but I think 441 00:23:09,031 --> 00:23:10,831 it's like Bitcoin takes money back. 442 00:23:10,876 --> 00:23:14,646 To some of its earliest roots, like money has always been a ledger. 443 00:23:14,716 --> 00:23:18,446 And back in the early days when we were like hunters and gatherers, 444 00:23:18,446 --> 00:23:21,546 just slowly discovering what money was, it was a lot more like that. 445 00:23:21,556 --> 00:23:22,856 It was a lot more communal. 446 00:23:23,106 --> 00:23:26,126 It was more like a reputation based, small community where 447 00:23:26,126 --> 00:23:27,386 you do a favor for someone else. 448 00:23:27,386 --> 00:23:30,071 and They repay you and do a favor back to you. 449 00:23:30,191 --> 00:23:32,811 And so I think Bitcoin is going to completely flip, 450 00:23:33,021 --> 00:23:34,411 how we think about money. 451 00:23:34,411 --> 00:23:38,201 That's something I've never thought about how, , that's going to kind of decrease 452 00:23:38,211 --> 00:23:41,511 the transactions because we're just going to want to do favors for each other. 453 00:23:41,511 --> 00:23:44,581 That's a really interesting rabbit hole that I personally need to 454 00:23:44,581 --> 00:23:46,431 think about a little bit more, but. 455 00:23:46,776 --> 00:23:50,916 Uh, like you say, when you are your Bitcoin, that changes not only how you 456 00:23:50,956 --> 00:23:55,966 interact with some peers in your society and your community around you, but it 457 00:23:55,966 --> 00:23:59,706 also changes like the logic of violence, like gone are the days that you can just 458 00:24:00,096 --> 00:24:04,146 storm into someone's home, kill them and take all their wealth, whether it's stored 459 00:24:04,146 --> 00:24:10,906 in gold, fiat, or a safe or stupid Rolex watches, like shit boy crypto has, like 460 00:24:10,906 --> 00:24:12,856 now to actually get somebody's wealth, 461 00:24:12,951 --> 00:24:13,761 by crapto. 462 00:24:14,426 --> 00:24:15,466 Yeah, I like that. 463 00:24:16,186 --> 00:24:16,656 That's great. 464 00:24:16,706 --> 00:24:17,686 Shit boy, crap though. 465 00:24:18,216 --> 00:24:20,496 Yeah, Bitcoin completely changes all of that. 466 00:24:20,586 --> 00:24:24,186 For thousands of years, you could just roll into another city, kill 467 00:24:24,186 --> 00:24:27,156 everybody and take their gold and you've got all of their wealth. 468 00:24:27,536 --> 00:24:29,416 Gone are the days of that on a Bitcoin standard. 469 00:24:29,436 --> 00:24:31,976 You actually need to get the secret out of their head. 470 00:24:32,326 --> 00:24:35,066 Sure, some people might give up their secret if they're tortured 471 00:24:35,066 --> 00:24:36,666 enough, but I know some people won't. 472 00:24:36,686 --> 00:24:36,876 And it's... 473 00:24:37,591 --> 00:24:41,351 If you store your Bitcoin correctly in a multi signature setup, it's actually 474 00:24:41,351 --> 00:24:43,391 impossible to get somebody's wealth. 475 00:24:43,965 --> 00:24:48,145 Yeah, just from a game theory perspective there, you get 476 00:24:48,155 --> 00:24:49,825 half if you torture someone. 477 00:24:50,215 --> 00:24:54,725 Like, half the time you kill them and you get nothing, and half the time you 478 00:24:54,725 --> 00:25:00,105 get everything, or like, I think there's some game theoretical argument to be 479 00:25:00,105 --> 00:25:05,105 made for the average being half over time given enough transactions, or threats. 480 00:25:06,185 --> 00:25:07,275 think that's a good average. 481 00:25:07,335 --> 00:25:08,165 I think that's a good average. 482 00:25:08,195 --> 00:25:12,139 I think that average will skew the further we move on to a Bitcoin setup. 483 00:25:12,140 --> 00:25:15,380 Standard because I'm hopeful that more and more people, uh, will 484 00:25:15,380 --> 00:25:17,720 adopt superior, security practices. 485 00:25:17,900 --> 00:25:21,540 Like I'm pretty comfortable doxxing my full name out there, because I have 486 00:25:21,545 --> 00:25:23,250 a pretty secure multisignature setup. 487 00:25:23,255 --> 00:25:25,440 Like if someone wants my Bitcoin, all right, put me on 488 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:26,640 a flight, get cozy with me. 489 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,980 'cause you're gonna have to take me to Australia as well as a few 490 00:25:28,980 --> 00:25:32,880 other countries who actually get all of my private keys to move Bitcoin 491 00:25:32,910 --> 00:25:34,410 outta my Multisignature wallet. 492 00:25:34,660 --> 00:25:35,680 And I think as. 493 00:25:35,820 --> 00:25:36,920 Technology advances. 494 00:25:36,990 --> 00:25:41,590 And as that becomes a lot more easier and accessible for the everyday person 495 00:25:41,590 --> 00:25:45,550 to do, I'm pretty hopeful that that's going to actually decrease the amount 496 00:25:45,550 --> 00:25:47,480 of violence, um, on a Bitcoin standard. 497 00:25:47,540 --> 00:25:50,100 So I'm super bullish on what Bitcoin is going to do. 498 00:25:50,660 --> 00:25:55,240 Yeah, I tried to put all the gist of that into a sentence of one of my books. 499 00:25:55,240 --> 00:26:00,077 And I think it is, uh, the line is, when you cannot know how much another 500 00:26:00,077 --> 00:26:04,428 person owns and you cannot take it by force, there's no other way for 501 00:26:04,428 --> 00:26:07,688 you to extract value from that person than giving something of value back. 502 00:26:08,277 --> 00:26:11,887 And this is a key point when you cannot know how much another person owns, 503 00:26:12,187 --> 00:26:17,507 because right now it is true that it's impossible for anyone on earth to know how 504 00:26:17,527 --> 00:26:21,797 much bitcoins anyone else actually owns. 505 00:26:22,317 --> 00:26:27,939 You may be able to do some chain anal stuff and find out a part of that 506 00:26:28,179 --> 00:26:33,459 person's bitcoin stack, but you cannot prove that you don't own a bitcoin. 507 00:26:33,469 --> 00:26:37,982 Like, since it's just keeping a secret, There's no way of knowing how many other 508 00:26:37,982 --> 00:26:43,015 people know that secret, or if a person knows more than one secret, there's no way 509 00:26:43,015 --> 00:26:47,831 of knowing, which, like you say, alters the shelling point of violence, violence 510 00:26:47,831 --> 00:26:52,561 is not as profitable as it used to be, and it will never go back, it will only 511 00:26:52,561 --> 00:26:54,331 be less and less profitable over time. 512 00:26:54,965 --> 00:26:55,885 That's how I see the world. 513 00:26:56,225 --> 00:26:58,695 That's how I think Bitcoin standards going to change things. 514 00:26:58,695 --> 00:26:59,725 I think it's going to take time. 515 00:26:59,735 --> 00:27:05,895 Like you say, over time, I can see a pretty turbulent path that we may 516 00:27:05,935 --> 00:27:07,555 take towards a Bitcoin standard. 517 00:27:07,555 --> 00:27:09,595 I think a lot of people might not be prepared for. 518 00:27:10,125 --> 00:27:13,875 That's personally why I'm never going to be living in a G7 Western nation 519 00:27:13,885 --> 00:27:17,295 state for the next few years until the turbulence kind of blows over. 520 00:27:17,335 --> 00:27:19,015 I won't be returning back to the beach. 521 00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:24,050 Open air prison of Australia, because I can see potentially a scenario unfolding 522 00:27:24,060 --> 00:27:27,830 for public figures like ourselves, where the government comes pretty hard at us. 523 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,950 Again, it's only a hypothetical scenario. 524 00:27:30,090 --> 00:27:31,630 There's lots of possibilities. 525 00:27:31,630 --> 00:27:33,440 Nobody knows how the future is going to play out. 526 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,900 But again, I do agree with you there, Knut. 527 00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:39,696 I think over time, violence is going Bitcoin standard. 528 00:27:40,246 --> 00:27:45,616 Yeah, so there are a lot of people that argue for a slow transition into a Bitcoin 529 00:27:45,626 --> 00:27:51,350 standard because of this turbulence that might arise, but I think that's a case 530 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:57,680 to be made for a really, really rapid Bitcoin adoption phase since All it does 531 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,730 is remove violence from the equation. 532 00:28:00,740 --> 00:28:04,850 The thing that people leave out of that is that they're being 533 00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:06,840 violated against right now. 534 00:28:06,930 --> 00:28:08,560 People are stealing their stuff. 535 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,200 They are being threatened. 536 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,270 There's a threat of violence to each and everyone's head. 537 00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:16,993 If you're paying taxes, well, you can argue for and against. 538 00:28:17,298 --> 00:28:22,541 Taxes, I guess, on some level, I think, that you can deductively reason yourself 539 00:28:22,541 --> 00:28:27,861 to that taxes are always a net negative, but especially with inflation, which 540 00:28:27,861 --> 00:28:33,331 is, it's hard to argue for inflation in any shape or form once you realize 541 00:28:33,431 --> 00:28:37,411 that it's just theft and it's just counterfeiting and it's nothing but that. 542 00:28:37,901 --> 00:28:40,091 But, but that's what Bitcoin removes. 543 00:28:40,201 --> 00:28:45,265 So to me, removing violence and adopting Bitcoin are literally 544 00:28:45,265 --> 00:28:46,375 two sides of the same coin. 545 00:28:46,385 --> 00:28:48,045 They're the exact same phenomenon. 546 00:28:48,865 --> 00:28:52,101 Yeah, and I, I'm, I'm a fan of that thesis, Knut. 547 00:28:52,171 --> 00:28:55,051 I think if you rip the bandaid off, I, I'm actually one of 548 00:28:55,051 --> 00:28:56,731 the people who agree with you. 549 00:28:56,731 --> 00:29:01,001 And I actually think it probably is going to be better if we transition to 550 00:29:01,031 --> 00:29:03,461 Bitcoin really rapidly and really quickly. 551 00:29:03,721 --> 00:29:08,171 For, for years there, I used to say, look, I think Bitcoin's going to be adopted 552 00:29:08,171 --> 00:29:11,891 really rapidly and really quickly, but I don't want it to happen like that 553 00:29:11,891 --> 00:29:13,591 because it's going to be very turbulent. 554 00:29:13,701 --> 00:29:17,251 Could be very messy, could be very violent, but maybe in the past 12 555 00:29:17,281 --> 00:29:20,271 months, I've shifted my thinking a little bit surrounding that and 556 00:29:20,301 --> 00:29:23,581 kind of come to the conclusion after listening to your thoughts for a while. 557 00:29:23,821 --> 00:29:25,511 that It does make a little bit more sense. 558 00:29:25,811 --> 00:29:29,951 Why don't we just rip the bandaid off and transition to a world where it's 559 00:29:30,261 --> 00:29:34,221 far harder to lie to people and it's far harder to steal someone's wealth. 560 00:29:34,571 --> 00:29:35,271 Makes a lot of sense. 561 00:29:36,086 --> 00:29:38,096 Okay, we have some big news. 562 00:29:38,466 --> 00:29:40,706 We have a new lead sponsor, AmberApp. 563 00:29:41,546 --> 00:29:44,146 They're the number one exchange in the Southern Hemisphere. 564 00:29:44,456 --> 00:29:47,356 They're rated for the best customer service around and 565 00:29:47,376 --> 00:29:49,096 their global launch is coming. 566 00:29:49,766 --> 00:29:54,276 But the reason we're partnering with AmberApp is because of the people. 567 00:29:54,806 --> 00:29:57,916 If you haven't listened to our episode with Izzy, CEO of AmberApp, 568 00:29:57,976 --> 00:29:59,776 you really should go check it out. 569 00:30:00,466 --> 00:30:04,356 You'll see why it made perfect sense to partner with Izzy and AmberApp. 570 00:30:04,726 --> 00:30:05,196 That's it. 571 00:30:05,416 --> 00:30:07,996 All I'll say for now, you really have to check it out for yourself. 572 00:30:08,606 --> 00:30:11,646 They have loads of great features coming that we're excited to share 573 00:30:11,646 --> 00:30:15,016 with you when the time comes, but for now, just check out the episode, 574 00:30:15,016 --> 00:30:16,406 check out their website, Ampr. 575 00:30:16,406 --> 00:30:16,686 app. 576 00:30:17,196 --> 00:30:20,083 You can see for yourself, why we're thrilled to bring Ampr. 577 00:30:20,083 --> 00:30:22,023 app on as our lead sponsor and partner. 578 00:30:22,453 --> 00:30:23,193 So go check it out. 579 00:30:23,933 --> 00:30:25,501 Next up WasabiWallet. 580 00:30:25,741 --> 00:30:29,191 The privacy by default, open source, non custodial Bitcoin 581 00:30:29,191 --> 00:30:30,901 wallet with CoinJoin built in. 582 00:30:31,481 --> 00:30:35,471 It's the easy to use, comprehensive, affordable way to make your coins private. 583 00:30:36,036 --> 00:30:39,046 And the best part is, they've been making huge improvements to the app. 584 00:30:39,356 --> 00:30:42,306 They're really focusing on the user experience, adding advanced 585 00:30:42,416 --> 00:30:44,966 features for power users, they just keep getting better. 586 00:30:45,486 --> 00:30:48,966 You send your coins to your Wasabi wallet, and they get combined with loads of 587 00:30:48,966 --> 00:30:53,086 other coins using the Wabi Sabi protocol, so they're private on the other end. 588 00:30:53,626 --> 00:30:57,136 Your tracks are covered so you can work on expanding your Freedom Footprint 589 00:30:57,286 --> 00:30:58,966 without worrying about your privacy. 590 00:30:59,846 --> 00:31:00,756 So, check out wasabiwallet. 591 00:31:00,756 --> 00:31:03,926 io and download Wasabi today. 592 00:31:04,621 --> 00:31:07,721 Luke, do you have any, do you have any, anything on your mind? 593 00:31:07,931 --> 00:31:10,521 I, I see you're thinking something there. 594 00:31:11,471 --> 00:31:11,741 Yeah. 595 00:31:11,741 --> 00:31:14,261 Well, I mean, this has been a whole, whole good vein, and 596 00:31:14,261 --> 00:31:15,371 I think I'd like to tie this 597 00:31:15,591 --> 00:31:16,091 Oh, sorry. 598 00:31:16,101 --> 00:31:16,701 Danger. 599 00:31:16,801 --> 00:31:17,341 Danger. 600 00:31:18,271 --> 00:31:18,571 Thanks. 601 00:31:18,571 --> 00:31:18,721 K. 602 00:31:19,201 --> 00:31:22,231 I think I'd like to, I'd like to pull this into a little bit of, uh, 603 00:31:22,231 --> 00:31:28,816 a little bit of what you are doing in the Bitcoin scene community. 604 00:31:29,146 --> 00:31:32,771 You have your YouTube, channel and what are you trying to do with that? 605 00:31:32,771 --> 00:31:36,241 What are you trying to, accomplish, to advance Bitcoin? 606 00:31:37,086 --> 00:31:39,416 Yes, I personally have a couple of different YouTube 607 00:31:39,416 --> 00:31:40,616 channels that I make videos for. 608 00:31:40,616 --> 00:31:43,846 I've got a personal one, but then I also make videos for Coinbeast. 609 00:31:44,126 --> 00:31:47,946 Uh, so we have a YouTube channel called Money Matters and we just 610 00:31:47,946 --> 00:31:49,546 make Bitcoin only education. 611 00:31:49,876 --> 00:31:54,686 Um, and I also, uh, kind of train other Bitcoiners and other Bitcoin 612 00:31:54,686 --> 00:31:56,576 YouTubers, uh, to how to kind of... 613 00:31:56,801 --> 00:31:59,441 Hack virality in their content. 614 00:31:59,551 --> 00:32:03,981 So, uh, I also kind of, help YouTubers grow their audience so that 615 00:32:03,981 --> 00:32:05,361 they can orange pill more people. 616 00:32:05,401 --> 00:32:08,331 Cause that's my mission at the end of the day, orange pill more people. 617 00:32:08,361 --> 00:32:12,561 And I think if we are going to actually reach some sort of hyperbitcoinization, 618 00:32:12,721 --> 00:32:19,361 we actually sadly do need to interact with these platforms normies are. 619 00:32:19,711 --> 00:32:22,771 Uh, we can shout all we want on Twitter, but it's pretty simple. 620 00:32:22,781 --> 00:32:24,851 Most of my normie friends aren't on Twitter. 621 00:32:25,161 --> 00:32:27,111 They're on YouTube, they're on Instagram. 622 00:32:27,331 --> 00:32:31,631 So my mission is to try to make some easily digestible, Bitcoin only content 623 00:32:31,631 --> 00:32:33,751 over on YouTube that catches the masses. 624 00:32:34,021 --> 00:32:36,401 Sometimes that involves clickbaiting a little bit. 625 00:32:36,681 --> 00:32:40,421 And sometimes if you can clickbait a lot of new people, you can actually 626 00:32:40,421 --> 00:32:44,261 deliver them an orange pill, uh, that's kind of wrapped up in some clickbait, 627 00:32:44,681 --> 00:32:48,111 you know, crypto scammery that's on YouTube because when I was learning 628 00:32:48,141 --> 00:32:52,511 about Bitcoin, I primarily went to YouTube in 2018 and 2019, and that's 629 00:32:52,511 --> 00:32:56,481 where I got scammed because there was no Bitcoin only content on there. 630 00:32:56,741 --> 00:32:57,031 Okay. 631 00:32:57,031 --> 00:33:00,971 I learned a little bit from Max and Andreas, but everything else, it was just 632 00:33:01,021 --> 00:33:04,051 crypto trading, all of this other trash. 633 00:33:04,101 --> 00:33:06,991 Um, so that's my mission, just trying to orange pill the world. 634 00:33:06,991 --> 00:33:10,241 And I think, , what I am doing right now is probably the closest. 635 00:33:11,011 --> 00:33:12,681 I'm trying to doing the most that I can. 636 00:33:12,691 --> 00:33:14,791 I've nearly published my first book. 637 00:33:14,811 --> 00:33:18,101 Um, and I'm focusing pretty heavily on YouTube and helping 638 00:33:18,111 --> 00:33:19,441 other people master YouTube. 639 00:33:19,964 --> 00:33:20,384 Great. 640 00:33:20,444 --> 00:33:22,664 And did you say coin based? 641 00:33:22,959 --> 00:33:23,159 Or 642 00:33:23,354 --> 00:33:23,784 Yeah. 643 00:33:24,709 --> 00:33:25,019 Coinbase. 644 00:33:25,049 --> 00:33:25,339 Coinbase. 645 00:33:26,399 --> 00:33:27,689 Yeah, that sounds way better. 646 00:33:28,594 --> 00:33:29,284 A lot better. 647 00:33:29,749 --> 00:33:32,649 You wouldn't touch Coinbase with a 21 foot pole, I guess. 648 00:33:33,554 --> 00:33:34,244 Definitely not. 649 00:33:35,374 --> 00:33:38,674 It's funny, all of my, editing software can never pick up my strong accent. 650 00:33:38,674 --> 00:33:42,794 So a lot of the times when I say coin beast, the little caption is coin base. 651 00:33:43,334 --> 00:33:44,674 Uh, yeah, it's a, it's a struggle. 652 00:33:45,176 --> 00:33:47,666 So, so what does Coinbase do? 653 00:33:48,511 --> 00:33:51,541 No, you know, This is the, this is the problem, isn't it? 654 00:33:51,661 --> 00:33:56,371 Uh, I think it's, you're saying beast as in like a, like a grrr, a 655 00:33:56,676 --> 00:33:57,116 There you go, 656 00:33:57,306 --> 00:33:57,766 TLDR? 657 00:33:57,816 --> 00:33:58,326 Coinbeast! 658 00:33:58,566 --> 00:34:04,096 Alright, alright, yeah, yeah, my algorithm didn't detect your dialect there properly. 659 00:34:05,461 --> 00:34:07,381 So what does CoinBeast do? 660 00:34:08,206 --> 00:34:11,796 So we're a Bitcoin only educational company and we connect 661 00:34:11,796 --> 00:34:13,846 new people to Bitcoin pros. 662 00:34:13,996 --> 00:34:17,626 So if someone wants to set up a sophisticated mining operation, we connect 663 00:34:17,626 --> 00:34:21,986 them with a video call with people like Adam O Denverbitcoin Um, if somebody wants 664 00:34:21,986 --> 00:34:25,256 to take self custody of their Bitcoin, we connect them to a Bitcoin pro who's 665 00:34:25,256 --> 00:34:28,656 going to help them custody their Bitcoin and get their Bitcoin off exchanges. 666 00:34:28,766 --> 00:34:32,479 We do that and we also spread Bitcoin only educational, content 667 00:34:32,489 --> 00:34:34,089 on Twitter and on YouTube. 668 00:34:34,704 --> 00:34:39,677 So if someone comes and asks for, dad jokes and philosophy, uh, 669 00:34:40,807 --> 00:34:41,977 rants, where do you send them? 670 00:34:42,812 --> 00:34:43,222 We got it. 671 00:34:43,222 --> 00:34:44,872 Cause we could, we should send them to you, Knut. 672 00:34:44,982 --> 00:34:47,822 We need to hook you up as a, Bitcoin pro. 673 00:34:47,972 --> 00:34:48,502 We should. 674 00:34:50,737 --> 00:34:51,057 Yeah. 675 00:34:51,097 --> 00:34:52,697 Uh, dad jokes as a service. 676 00:34:53,121 --> 00:34:56,211 Knut thinks that other people also enjoy the things that he finds 677 00:34:56,211 --> 00:34:58,341 funny and that's pretty good because 678 00:34:58,411 --> 00:34:59,581 yeah, that's funny to me. 679 00:34:59,871 --> 00:35:00,371 Yeah. 680 00:35:01,296 --> 00:35:02,096 And that's why I'm here. 681 00:35:02,136 --> 00:35:02,996 I'm here for the dad jokes. 682 00:35:03,781 --> 00:35:04,251 perfect. 683 00:35:04,301 --> 00:35:04,581 right. 684 00:35:05,121 --> 00:35:09,444 I have a joke, uh, about, construction, but it isn't done yet. 685 00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:10,469 I mean, 686 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:11,669 Oh, hey, there you go. 687 00:35:11,729 --> 00:35:12,159 Uh, yeah. 688 00:35:13,159 --> 00:35:13,709 You got me. 689 00:35:13,934 --> 00:35:17,824 Well, well, so, so can you tell us a little bit more about, the, 690 00:35:17,854 --> 00:35:23,374 the whole reaching out to more people thing, we're kind of in the 691 00:35:23,374 --> 00:35:25,994 business of deepening conviction. 692 00:35:25,994 --> 00:35:31,176 We've, we've been talking about this A little bit lately that the Freedom 693 00:35:31,176 --> 00:35:37,556 Footprint show isn't exactly the best thing for a new person to come find 694 00:35:37,596 --> 00:35:40,016 where we're a little on the toxic side. 695 00:35:40,276 --> 00:35:41,086 I saw you. 696 00:35:41,106 --> 00:35:44,866 You were avoiding swearing earlier as well. 697 00:35:45,246 --> 00:35:46,096 Um, and... 698 00:35:46,756 --> 00:35:51,556 Are these things that, that turn people off on YouTube or 699 00:35:51,556 --> 00:35:53,086 that YouTube deprioritizes? 700 00:35:53,126 --> 00:35:56,416 Like, does that actually stop us from growing even though we're 701 00:35:56,606 --> 00:36:01,909 kind of finding our niche in the, uh, toxic Bitcoin maxi community? 702 00:36:02,382 --> 00:36:03,922 I, I'm not a hundred percent sure. 703 00:36:03,982 --> 00:36:07,742 I've seen some people, some big YouTubers claim that using the F 704 00:36:07,762 --> 00:36:11,982 bomb multiple times, uh, it's going to affect your monetization, but it 705 00:36:11,982 --> 00:36:14,342 shouldn't actually affect your virality. 706 00:36:14,632 --> 00:36:17,422 this is like something, you see a lot of people repeat. 707 00:36:17,432 --> 00:36:19,282 A lot of people say I'm shadow banned on YouTube. 708 00:36:19,282 --> 00:36:21,982 I'm shadow banned on YouTube because they think that, you know, 709 00:36:22,022 --> 00:36:23,372 the algorithm is squashing them. 710 00:36:23,372 --> 00:36:25,072 And it's just the fact that it makes shit content. 711 00:36:25,432 --> 00:36:27,082 Yeah, you're not very popular. 712 00:36:27,082 --> 00:36:28,112 That's, that's the case. 713 00:36:28,112 --> 00:36:28,792 You're not shadow. 714 00:36:28,802 --> 00:36:29,892 You're not shadow band. 715 00:36:29,892 --> 00:36:30,572 You're boring. 716 00:36:31,167 --> 00:36:32,357 yeah, I was one of them. 717 00:36:32,357 --> 00:36:34,767 I used to think my channel was shadowbanned when I started it, but 718 00:36:34,777 --> 00:36:39,347 the fact was I just made shit titles, shit thumbnails, and I needed to, uh, 719 00:36:39,377 --> 00:36:42,694 get, better with what I said, so I, but I think, think I prefer to play 720 00:36:42,704 --> 00:36:46,067 it safe, uh, on some of my channels, on my personal channel, I let it fly, 721 00:36:46,147 --> 00:36:50,007 um, and I've dropped many F bombs in a video and it does well, so I don't 722 00:36:50,007 --> 00:36:54,347 think F bombs affects you unless you, uh, monetize in your YouTube channel. 723 00:36:55,062 --> 00:36:57,676 Yeah, Me and Luke, we talk about this all the time. 724 00:36:57,676 --> 00:37:00,466 What we're actually trying to achieve with this thing and what 725 00:37:00,466 --> 00:37:01,686 we're trying to do and like. 726 00:37:02,061 --> 00:37:05,481 I mean, for the most part, why we started it and that's still the core is just 727 00:37:05,481 --> 00:37:09,021 that we want to have conversations with other Bitcoiners because we love having 728 00:37:09,021 --> 00:37:10,491 conversations with other Bitcoiners. 729 00:37:10,521 --> 00:37:12,921 It's our favorite thing to do in the world. 730 00:37:13,337 --> 00:37:16,851 But also like, what kind of audience are we doing this 731 00:37:16,851 --> 00:37:18,981 for and who are our listeners? 732 00:37:19,031 --> 00:37:23,111 Like, it's, it's kind of hard to, to get a grasp of those things. 733 00:37:23,151 --> 00:37:27,694 And, is like a computer game in a sense, there are different levers to 734 00:37:27,694 --> 00:37:31,214 pull and there are different things to try, but I think at the core of. 735 00:37:31,532 --> 00:37:35,262 Our idea of this is to get quality listeners rather than quantity listeners. 736 00:37:35,262 --> 00:37:39,532 We like to align with the Bitcoin ethos and prioritize quality over quantity. 737 00:37:39,532 --> 00:37:41,082 That's, that's like the main goal. 738 00:37:41,742 --> 00:37:42,652 And that's mine as well. 739 00:37:42,809 --> 00:37:47,799 my, my thinking surrounding it, is to get the quality listeners is you kind 740 00:37:47,799 --> 00:37:52,329 of have to play the YouTube algorithm, the YouTube game, uh, to actually cast 741 00:37:52,329 --> 00:37:54,289 your net out there to find the quality. 742 00:37:54,289 --> 00:37:58,269 Cause I believe there are so many quality hardcore Bitcoiners around the 743 00:37:58,269 --> 00:38:00,249 world who are simply not Bitcoiners yet. 744 00:38:00,329 --> 00:38:04,799 And I think the number one touch point that many people are going to 745 00:38:04,859 --> 00:38:08,479 touch to kind of discover what Bitcoin is, it's number go up technology. 746 00:38:08,681 --> 00:38:11,971 and I think just to answer one of your earlier questions surrounding 747 00:38:12,031 --> 00:38:16,611 toxicity and, you know, should we be toxic if we are trying to welcome new 748 00:38:16,641 --> 00:38:20,251 people to Bitcoin or appeal to newer people who are outside of Bitcoin? 749 00:38:20,571 --> 00:38:24,771 I actually roll with yes, I think it's actually a good thing to be toxic, be more 750 00:38:24,771 --> 00:38:29,621 real, uh, don't worry about the, you know, the swear bombs, because I think people 751 00:38:30,011 --> 00:38:35,411 They're so sick of this, nice corporate lie that they used to from the government. 752 00:38:35,411 --> 00:38:38,221 They're looking for alternative viewpoints surrounding the world. 753 00:38:38,261 --> 00:38:42,071 So I think if you're real and you're authentic, um, on YouTube, I think people 754 00:38:42,071 --> 00:38:43,551 are going to relate to you a lot more. 755 00:38:43,661 --> 00:38:45,011 that's how I go about it. 756 00:38:45,011 --> 00:38:48,624 And that's kind of how I, tell my clients they should also go about it. 757 00:38:48,624 --> 00:38:51,204 You know, don't worry about being very corporate and very nice 758 00:38:51,204 --> 00:38:52,364 because people are sick of it. 759 00:38:53,169 --> 00:38:59,019 this is so true that some wise man said, I don't remember who, but someone said, 760 00:38:59,062 --> 00:39:01,052 honesty is the currency of the future. 761 00:39:01,469 --> 00:39:06,179 that struck a chord with me because like, yes, Bitcoin is honesty. 762 00:39:06,189 --> 00:39:07,459 That's exactly what it is. 763 00:39:07,729 --> 00:39:09,210 But there's more to it. 764 00:39:09,412 --> 00:39:12,302 that's one of the superpowers that Bitcoin gives you. 765 00:39:12,698 --> 00:39:18,239 Not only in a philosophical sense or a meta sense, but once you know that You're 766 00:39:18,249 --> 00:39:22,699 set for like, if you get over above a certain threshold and you know, your coins 767 00:39:22,699 --> 00:39:27,409 are stored, stored properly, and they're uncensorable, then you know that you'll 768 00:39:27,419 --> 00:39:29,179 have them forever and so on and so forth. 769 00:39:29,509 --> 00:39:33,679 That allows you to be yourself to a much larger extent. 770 00:39:34,206 --> 00:39:36,296 so honesty is the currency of the future. 771 00:39:36,296 --> 00:39:38,376 There, there are so many layers to that. 772 00:39:38,406 --> 00:39:42,899 And I think that's, the people watching, YouTube shows or listening 773 00:39:42,899 --> 00:39:47,209 to pods, they, they appreciate honesty above everything else because like, 774 00:39:47,469 --> 00:39:52,819 why would you listen to anything that markets itself as interesting 775 00:39:52,819 --> 00:39:56,029 when it's not actually interesting, because if it's not honest, it's. 776 00:39:56,294 --> 00:39:58,164 It's not interesting by default. 777 00:39:58,384 --> 00:40:03,034 It can be interesting to see what others think about stuff, but still, 778 00:40:03,401 --> 00:40:04,831 honesty is the only way forward. 779 00:40:04,851 --> 00:40:08,538 And there's nothing easier in the world than dropping all of your 780 00:40:09,178 --> 00:40:14,018 previous fiat masks that you were wearing and just be yourself and try 781 00:40:14,018 --> 00:40:15,608 to be the best version of yourself. 782 00:40:15,913 --> 00:40:16,463 Possible. 783 00:40:16,586 --> 00:40:18,606 and if you fail, good for you. 784 00:40:18,676 --> 00:40:19,546 You learned something. 785 00:40:19,943 --> 00:40:22,923 that's what we strive for anyway, to, to try to do here. 786 00:40:22,973 --> 00:40:25,303 Learning new things is, it's fun. 787 00:40:25,663 --> 00:40:30,009 Once you allow yourself to, admit that I don't know anything about 788 00:40:30,009 --> 00:40:31,589 this, but I'm going to give it a try. 789 00:40:31,729 --> 00:40:31,889 And. 790 00:40:32,509 --> 00:40:33,429 See where it goes. 791 00:40:33,783 --> 00:40:34,823 That's the best thing ever. 792 00:40:35,713 --> 00:40:36,273 I love that. 793 00:40:36,303 --> 00:40:37,883 Honesty is the future. 794 00:40:37,963 --> 00:40:39,353 I think that's very poetic. 795 00:40:39,353 --> 00:40:43,153 And I think that's, you know, one of the reasons why Bitcoin is the fastest growing 796 00:40:43,153 --> 00:40:45,393 technological invention in history. 797 00:40:45,393 --> 00:40:47,973 It's one of the fastest growing faster than the internet was. 798 00:40:48,273 --> 00:40:51,283 And that's because people are sick of this fiat world where they've been 799 00:40:51,293 --> 00:40:52,803 lied to for the past hundred years. 800 00:40:53,303 --> 00:40:57,123 society has been lied to about the educational system, the healthcare 801 00:40:57,123 --> 00:41:01,553 system, the medical system, and, first and foremost, the monetary system. 802 00:41:01,563 --> 00:41:03,003 People are sick Sick of all of it. 803 00:41:03,013 --> 00:41:06,343 And you're slowly watching, you know, the beginning of what some people 804 00:41:06,343 --> 00:41:08,163 call this, you know, great awakening. 805 00:41:08,163 --> 00:41:11,876 I'm not, fully on board with, a lot of the things that those, that crowd says, 806 00:41:11,876 --> 00:41:15,696 but they're onto something like the world is slowly gravitating towards truth. 807 00:41:15,746 --> 00:41:16,686 And I love that. 808 00:41:16,686 --> 00:41:17,156 What did you say? 809 00:41:17,156 --> 00:41:20,326 Big, uh, the future is truth and Bitcoin is the truth. 810 00:41:20,896 --> 00:41:23,536 Oh, well, honesty is the currency of the future. 811 00:41:23,566 --> 00:41:24,936 And Bitcoin is honesty. 812 00:41:25,234 --> 00:41:26,313 I think that's what I said. 813 00:41:26,624 --> 00:41:27,639 there's so much there. 814 00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:32,209 I mean, we've been lied to sort of implies that there's a liar. 815 00:41:32,539 --> 00:41:36,469 And I, I think that most people are just confused. 816 00:41:36,519 --> 00:41:40,958 Most people in these institutions, most politicians, of course, some of them are 817 00:41:40,958 --> 00:41:46,228 deliberately lying about stuff, obviously, but most of them, most of the people on 818 00:41:46,228 --> 00:41:52,933 the wrong side of the fence, so to speak, are just Ignorant about certain topics and 819 00:41:52,933 --> 00:41:57,786 therefore they push the current narrative forward and they aren't able to, zoom 820 00:41:57,786 --> 00:42:00,456 out of the era that in which they live. 821 00:42:00,546 --> 00:42:05,356 And they think that these are modern times, these are how things are and 822 00:42:05,356 --> 00:42:07,186 this is how things are going to work. 823 00:42:07,186 --> 00:42:11,026 And they don't see themselves on this historical spectrum and don't realize 824 00:42:11,026 --> 00:42:15,166 that every single generation in human history thought that this is now. 825 00:42:15,211 --> 00:42:17,691 Because it was now, it's always now. 826 00:42:18,041 --> 00:42:20,531 And that now is always changing. 827 00:42:20,941 --> 00:42:22,171 It's not static at all. 828 00:42:22,221 --> 00:42:23,181 It's dynamic. 829 00:42:23,281 --> 00:42:28,846 So the interesting thing is where we're going and what direction we're going in. 830 00:42:29,416 --> 00:42:33,988 And I think honesty is the best path forward, of course, and, and, uh, 831 00:42:34,058 --> 00:42:39,308 that if people in government knew about praxeology, for instance, 832 00:42:39,308 --> 00:42:40,488 they wouldn't be in government. 833 00:42:40,508 --> 00:42:45,751 they would be in the private sector and more and more things would move away 834 00:42:45,761 --> 00:42:50,581 from things that provably cannot work. 835 00:42:50,816 --> 00:42:53,776 In the long term, fiat money is the obvious example, but 836 00:42:53,776 --> 00:42:54,896 there are other things as well. 837 00:42:54,926 --> 00:42:59,689 But, fiat money cannot work in the long run because it means more and 838 00:42:59,689 --> 00:43:01,159 more money printing every year. 839 00:43:01,496 --> 00:43:03,666 uh, GDP going up forever is corruption. 840 00:43:03,976 --> 00:43:06,436 Like Greta Thunberg says, it's a fantasy. 841 00:43:07,246 --> 00:43:13,896 It really is perpetual growth measured in GDP is a fantasy. 842 00:43:14,306 --> 00:43:20,776 Perpetual growth in terms of human ingenuity and innovation, that's possible 843 00:43:20,776 --> 00:43:24,376 at least until the sun becomes big and eats us up after 4 million years. 844 00:43:24,376 --> 00:43:28,736 If we haven't found a way to get to another star, that's, 845 00:43:28,916 --> 00:43:30,836 uh, that's not forever. 846 00:43:31,156 --> 00:43:35,231 Few things are, But yeah, I don't really know where I'm going with 847 00:43:35,231 --> 00:43:40,541 this, but I think there's a connection to honesty and something here. 848 00:43:40,591 --> 00:43:45,391 I think the system itself turns people into liars rather than there being a 849 00:43:45,401 --> 00:43:47,471 deliberate conspiracy going on anywhere. 850 00:43:48,316 --> 00:43:51,686 Yeah, I used to be a lot more in the camp. 851 00:43:51,706 --> 00:43:53,956 I was far more heavily in the camp of, there's a they. 852 00:43:54,376 --> 00:43:56,316 It's the World Economic Forum and it's class. 853 00:43:56,366 --> 00:43:58,406 They're the ones controlling the whole world. 854 00:43:58,656 --> 00:44:01,656 That was kind of my view, you know, 2018, 2019. 855 00:44:01,656 --> 00:44:05,089 And, kind of slowly gravitated a little bit and changed my opinion a little bit. 856 00:44:05,089 --> 00:44:07,849 I still do think there are evil people in the world. 857 00:44:08,139 --> 00:44:12,349 Like Klaus and, many of the people who go to some very interesting islands 858 00:44:12,349 --> 00:44:16,849 around the world with Jeffrey, but I think there's just a large incentive system 859 00:44:16,849 --> 00:44:20,709 where people have just been caught up in this fiat incentive system and, they 860 00:44:20,709 --> 00:44:22,579 believe everything they've been told. 861 00:44:22,659 --> 00:44:26,614 And I think it's just going to take time for them to come to the realization that. 862 00:44:26,854 --> 00:44:31,404 No, truth is not what the church and the state is telling you, it is, and you know, 863 00:44:31,464 --> 00:44:35,544 500 years ago when the printing press did separate church and the state, it took 864 00:44:35,544 --> 00:44:39,564 a long time, like it took decades for the truth to finally get out there, and 865 00:44:39,564 --> 00:44:44,004 I think it still might take a little bit of time, uh, in today's internet age, but 866 00:44:44,004 --> 00:44:48,438 I think, you know, uh, with the internet democratizing information and bitcoin, 867 00:44:48,678 --> 00:44:52,658 , democratizing and decentralizing money, I think it could happen very rapidly 868 00:44:52,658 --> 00:44:57,898 that People do jump out of this fiat incentive system, that they've come to 869 00:44:57,918 --> 00:45:00,578 live by and believe in their whole life. 870 00:45:00,608 --> 00:45:03,548 So I'm pretty interested in how things could unfold in the coming years. 871 00:45:04,528 --> 00:45:05,008 Yeah. 872 00:45:05,093 --> 00:45:07,053 Not to say there's no evil people. 873 00:45:07,083 --> 00:45:08,823 Of course, there are evil people. 874 00:45:08,823 --> 00:45:13,779 And the thing is that the systems we've built up, they attract evil people. 875 00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:17,429 if you're evil, and if you're willing to do whatever to get into 876 00:45:17,429 --> 00:45:20,999 positions of power, you probably will end up in a position of power. 877 00:45:20,999 --> 00:45:24,933 And that's how skewed, , how bad the systems are built up. 878 00:45:25,246 --> 00:45:32,886 So it is the rich men north of Richmond, uh, that are maybe not causing the mess, 879 00:45:32,906 --> 00:45:35,966 but making the mess worse every day, 880 00:45:37,014 --> 00:45:37,724 Exactly. 881 00:45:37,764 --> 00:45:39,164 Yeah, that's, that's how I see the world. 882 00:45:39,164 --> 00:45:42,914 And, what a man, Oliver Anthony, he certainly captured the cultural 883 00:45:42,914 --> 00:45:44,704 zeitgeist, with that song recently. 884 00:45:45,089 --> 00:45:46,069 Yeah, yeah. 885 00:45:46,219 --> 00:45:50,183 And some bitcoiners were, uh, Tur, for instance, was one of the first 886 00:45:50,183 --> 00:45:53,363 ones on the ball there, and he really saw the genius of that song. 887 00:45:53,693 --> 00:45:57,023 And I remember I saw it like a day after it was released. 888 00:45:57,491 --> 00:46:02,658 A day after that, I sent him an email, invited him to this show, but, uh, we had 889 00:46:02,658 --> 00:46:05,088 no chance at getting him on at that point. 890 00:46:05,098 --> 00:46:08,088 Maybe, maybe, Oliver, if you hear this, we'd love to have 891 00:46:08,088 --> 00:46:09,738 you on our show and talk music. 892 00:46:10,284 --> 00:46:11,734 Because he got so viral. 893 00:46:11,754 --> 00:46:14,084 So, so everyone tried to reach out to him, of course, 894 00:46:14,724 --> 00:46:17,201 Yeah, I I think that song got tens of millions of views. 895 00:46:17,414 --> 00:46:20,844 absolutely ridiculous, but it kind of shows, way of the times. 896 00:46:20,844 --> 00:46:23,574 It shows you what society is feeling. 897 00:46:23,634 --> 00:46:27,904 We see all of these viral TikTok videos recently where you have soccer moms 898 00:46:27,904 --> 00:46:31,474 in Canada and America literally crying on camera saying they can't afford 899 00:46:31,514 --> 00:46:35,984 things and slow You're having songs from Oliver Anthony start to actually 900 00:46:36,244 --> 00:46:38,754 correctly diagnose the root problem. 901 00:46:38,754 --> 00:46:39,654 It's fiat money. 902 00:46:39,654 --> 00:46:44,094 It's these rich cabal of elites who can, you know, change the rules of 903 00:46:44,094 --> 00:46:47,514 the monetary system whenever they want and print new monetary units. 904 00:46:47,564 --> 00:46:51,134 That's the reason that cost of living is getting ridiculously high. 905 00:46:51,134 --> 00:46:54,344 It's just, we don't quite have those people correctly 906 00:46:54,344 --> 00:46:55,874 identifying the solution yet. 907 00:46:55,894 --> 00:46:56,664 We have some people. 908 00:46:56,894 --> 00:47:00,764 We have people like, Jordan Peterson warming up to Bitcoin and 909 00:47:00,774 --> 00:47:02,474 slowly beginning to talk about it. 910 00:47:02,514 --> 00:47:07,364 We also have other, viral people around the world, like Joe Roken, begin to 911 00:47:07,374 --> 00:47:10,134 mention Bitcoin a little bit, uh, more. 912 00:47:10,184 --> 00:47:13,404 So I think we're really on the tipping point of, society, 913 00:47:13,454 --> 00:47:15,054 saying, okay, this is the problem. 914 00:47:15,134 --> 00:47:16,554 There's something wrong with the money. 915 00:47:16,704 --> 00:47:19,644 And I think we're not far away from people actually correctly 916 00:47:19,664 --> 00:47:21,374 diagnosing the solution. 917 00:47:21,384 --> 00:47:21,959 And it is Bitcoin. 918 00:47:21,959 --> 00:47:22,804 It's so simple. 919 00:47:22,864 --> 00:47:23,579 21 million. 920 00:47:23,971 --> 00:47:24,631 exactly. 921 00:47:24,698 --> 00:47:25,908 yeah, Joe Rogan. 922 00:47:25,908 --> 00:47:29,638 I think he might have been the guy who said current honesty is the currency of 923 00:47:29,638 --> 00:47:34,528 the future, or it's someone talking about Rogan because I think he captured that. 924 00:47:34,538 --> 00:47:37,238 That's why he became so big because he was honest. 925 00:47:37,564 --> 00:47:39,938 he had honest conversations and people wanted that. 926 00:47:40,516 --> 00:47:43,556 There's also other people around the world, you know, uh, like 927 00:47:43,556 --> 00:47:44,966 Russell Brand for example. 928 00:47:45,006 --> 00:47:49,006 Another one who's just, I believe, is speaking the truth and just speaking 929 00:47:49,006 --> 00:47:52,696 about things openly and he's getting attacked left, right, and center. 930 00:47:52,746 --> 00:47:54,496 He's got millions of subscribers on YouTube. 931 00:47:55,591 --> 00:47:59,991 I think though that there's a, and Russell Brand may or may not be an 932 00:47:59,991 --> 00:48:06,070 example of this, but I think, People play different games and a lot of content 933 00:48:06,070 --> 00:48:11,496 creators, they get addicted to their success because like, it's overwhelming. 934 00:48:11,506 --> 00:48:17,036 If you manage to grow big in a short amount of time and, you get 935 00:48:17,036 --> 00:48:20,526 all sorts of perks, people start to treat you differently and you get all 936 00:48:20,526 --> 00:48:22,976 sorts of offers from here and there. 937 00:48:23,306 --> 00:48:24,876 So, in a way this. 938 00:48:25,776 --> 00:48:31,323 Race for likes and, and retweets and subscribers and stuff, it becomes a, uh, 939 00:48:31,493 --> 00:48:39,373 an incentive structure that may not have honesty as its, uh, biggest driving force 940 00:48:39,383 --> 00:48:44,633 in the, for a lot of these YouTubers, because they, they value their, the power 941 00:48:44,633 --> 00:48:47,513 that comes with being recognized so high. 942 00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:49,080 this is a thing. 943 00:48:49,405 --> 00:48:54,771 That may or may not happen, but like, when Bitcoin, 10Xs, which 944 00:48:54,781 --> 00:49:00,265 it does at some point, we 10X too, at least in all probability. 945 00:49:00,485 --> 00:49:02,115 So all the Bitcoiners will be. 946 00:49:02,465 --> 00:49:07,768 Ten times as more recognized and that comes with, upsides and 947 00:49:07,778 --> 00:49:11,851 downsides, if you have a hundred thousand followers, like statistics 948 00:49:11,851 --> 00:49:15,371 can tell you how big a percentage of those followers are psychopaths. 949 00:49:15,421 --> 00:49:18,601 Like there's, there's upsides and downsides to that. 950 00:49:19,081 --> 00:49:22,791 And I, I think as, as public Bitcoin is when we need to 951 00:49:22,801 --> 00:49:24,601 be prepared for what a, uh. 952 00:49:24,916 --> 00:49:30,250 A big Heinz Ketchup moment would do it to us and especially to 953 00:49:30,250 --> 00:49:33,770 our psyches and to our egos and not let that get to our heads. 954 00:49:34,544 --> 00:49:38,743 Bitcoin changes you more than you change, can change it as the saying goes. 955 00:49:38,783 --> 00:49:43,020 And, uh, It's mostly a change for the better, but attention 956 00:49:43,020 --> 00:49:46,780 changes you too, and that might not always be a change for the better. 957 00:49:47,070 --> 00:49:48,310 do you have any thoughts around that? 958 00:49:49,070 --> 00:49:50,430 I have many different thoughts. 959 00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,940 Uh, the first one, obviously being like, you're seeing this on YouTube. 960 00:49:54,270 --> 00:49:57,480 Like if I record a video tomorrow saying Bitcoin's going to a hundred 961 00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:01,090 million dollars and here's why that's going to get, you know, 10, 000 views. 962 00:50:01,170 --> 00:50:04,200 But if I do a video tomorrow saying, uh, this is why the 963 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:05,730 lightning network is a revolution. 964 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,365 It's probably going to get 500 views. 965 00:50:07,365 --> 00:50:09,190 It's going to get 20 times less views. 966 00:50:09,570 --> 00:50:12,740 And it is very difficult to try to balance the, the kind 967 00:50:12,740 --> 00:50:14,110 of content that you are making. 968 00:50:14,355 --> 00:50:17,775 Purely as a content creator with the fiat incentives that we do 969 00:50:17,825 --> 00:50:19,895 have in front of us at the moment. 970 00:50:19,915 --> 00:50:24,435 And it's very difficult to try to use a little bit of curiosity and clickbait in 971 00:50:24,435 --> 00:50:28,985 our titles, but also deliver that Bitcoin message alongside the ridiculous clickbait 972 00:50:29,005 --> 00:50:30,085 that's going to get all the views. 973 00:50:30,085 --> 00:50:32,938 I think that's something that a lot of Bitcoin companies can 974 00:50:32,968 --> 00:50:35,038 certainly take advantage of more. 975 00:50:35,038 --> 00:50:37,888 But when you're kind of talking about the incentives and how it changes 976 00:50:37,888 --> 00:50:41,568 you personally, I think you've kind of got two diametrically opposing. 977 00:50:41,753 --> 00:50:44,173 Social media platforms battling it out right now. 978 00:50:44,203 --> 00:50:48,443 You have X or Twitter and you have Nostr and, like you say, Knut, 979 00:50:48,493 --> 00:50:51,443 I think the incentives have been very skewed on Twitter right now. 980 00:50:51,723 --> 00:50:57,553 People, being able to monetize their accounts and, uh, for a laugh, I go and 981 00:50:57,553 --> 00:50:59,153 listen to some of these, you know, large. 982 00:51:02,988 --> 00:51:05,841 And all of these big guys of a million, followers, they're saying, 983 00:51:05,841 --> 00:51:07,211 yeah, yeah, it's really easy. 984 00:51:07,411 --> 00:51:10,991 You just need to comment in the replies of all of my, uh, Twitter posts. 985 00:51:11,481 --> 00:51:14,621 And if you pay me money and you subscribe to me, I'm going to reply to you. 986 00:51:14,621 --> 00:51:17,331 So you get lots of engagement and you reach your 5 million 987 00:51:17,331 --> 00:51:18,401 impressions in three months. 988 00:51:18,671 --> 00:51:20,461 And that's just incentivizing trash. 989 00:51:20,601 --> 00:51:24,951 That's incentivizing people just becoming a reply guy, just replying trash in 990 00:51:24,951 --> 00:51:26,451 the comments of their favorite person. 991 00:51:26,461 --> 00:51:28,671 Whereas like on Nostr, provide value. 992 00:51:28,731 --> 00:51:34,071 There's nobody who controls Nostr who can pay you out, uh, for trashy, trashy 993 00:51:34,071 --> 00:51:38,301 comments and, uh, weak, uh, flaccid engagement that's not actually real. 994 00:51:38,301 --> 00:51:39,341 You provide value. 995 00:51:39,361 --> 00:51:42,461 If someone likes your shit, they're gonna zap you for it over the Lightning Network. 996 00:51:43,181 --> 00:51:48,601 Yeah, we've had, some debates about Nostr, and we're not entirely convinced 997 00:51:48,611 --> 00:51:53,581 that it won't run into the same problems as the old incentive structures. 998 00:51:53,611 --> 00:51:57,258 Because, uh, attention is still valuable to content creators, 999 00:51:57,388 --> 00:51:58,898 and people will crave attention. 1000 00:51:59,145 --> 00:52:02,075 that's why people want to be celebrities there's a difference 1001 00:52:02,265 --> 00:52:06,035 between wanting to be a celebrity and wanting to be recognized for sure. 1002 00:52:06,466 --> 00:52:11,476 Of course, you want your work to be appreciated by others, but some people 1003 00:52:11,486 --> 00:52:15,926 just want the attention for attention's sake, and that's a different game. 1004 00:52:16,243 --> 00:52:20,133 and there's, there are no real easy solutions to that, but when I hear that 1005 00:52:20,153 --> 00:52:24,013 about the Twitter space that's just talked about, it reminds me of the Wolf of Wall 1006 00:52:24,013 --> 00:52:28,923 Street and the last scene where, where, where, uh, sell me this pen and, and, 1007 00:52:28,963 --> 00:52:36,323 and this obvious asshole still gets, A ton of people to, a ton of people still 1008 00:52:36,333 --> 00:52:41,273 want to be like him because he scammed a lot of people and he was a total dick, 1009 00:52:41,783 --> 00:52:44,893 but they want to know how to be a total dick because he made a lot of money. 1010 00:52:46,223 --> 00:52:51,393 Uh, it's, yeah, but we, for our show, we talk about stuff like this a lot, me and 1011 00:52:51,523 --> 00:52:55,916 Danger here and we, we would never like. 1012 00:52:56,511 --> 00:53:00,731 Seriously interview a shit coiner and like, apologize for what they 1013 00:53:00,731 --> 00:53:05,781 do, or if we ever have a shit coiner on, it will be, ruthless. 1014 00:53:06,898 --> 00:53:11,575 so, so, the thing is, the price for, for everything else is your 1015 00:53:11,595 --> 00:53:14,075 integrity and your reputation is. 1016 00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:15,370 is always on the line. 1017 00:53:15,370 --> 00:53:17,943 And the way I see it, you can only sell your soul once. 1018 00:53:18,423 --> 00:53:21,753 If you take the bag of shit coins and run away, uh, like, and if you do 1019 00:53:21,753 --> 00:53:29,280 something dodgy, that dodgy move was probably costlier to you in a, in a 1020 00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,930 strict praxeological sense, uh, than, than the, the money you got for it. 1021 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:38,041 So, you won't see me doing ads for some shampoo anytime 1022 00:53:38,041 --> 00:53:40,351 soon if I, even if I do 10 x. 1023 00:53:40,351 --> 00:53:46,681 Like, uh, I, I don't know what the correct analogy is, uh, here, but money has the 1024 00:53:46,681 --> 00:53:48,331 power to change people's incentives. 1025 00:53:48,331 --> 00:53:54,431 So, so I think honest money is a prerequisite for every, uh, everything 1026 00:53:54,431 --> 00:53:56,091 else in the honesty business. 1027 00:53:56,996 --> 00:53:58,046 Yeah, a hundred percent. 1028 00:53:58,046 --> 00:54:01,246 It's very difficult to say no to, you know, large paychecks 1029 00:54:01,246 --> 00:54:02,466 from these shitcoin companies. 1030 00:54:02,486 --> 00:54:05,326 Like I've been approached by a few of them and they've offered me pretty 1031 00:54:05,346 --> 00:54:08,606 significant amounts of money to grow their YouTube channel or grow their Twitter. 1032 00:54:08,606 --> 00:54:11,936 And, uh, I'm the same, I find myself in the same boat as you, Knut. 1033 00:54:11,936 --> 00:54:14,060 There's no amount of money, that, you know, is going to be put in 1034 00:54:14,060 --> 00:54:15,855 front of me that's going to help me. 1035 00:54:15,925 --> 00:54:19,655 Help a scammer or help me help a corrupt shit coiner. 1036 00:54:19,722 --> 00:54:23,811 because I just think it's like you say, it's going to kill your integrity so bad. 1037 00:54:23,811 --> 00:54:26,811 And I just don't believe morally the message they're putting out there. 1038 00:54:26,951 --> 00:54:31,451 but I'm interested, uh, give me the bear case on Nostr, not the bear case, 1039 00:54:31,481 --> 00:54:38,421 but maybe how the incentive system, uh, may not be, or we hope it may be. 1040 00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:44,510 full disclaimer, I don't know enough about Nostr yet , to have a really 1041 00:54:44,510 --> 00:54:48,420 informed opinion on this, but the way, the things I know about Nostr 1042 00:54:48,420 --> 00:54:52,510 is that there is no mention of Satoshis in the actual protocol. 1043 00:54:52,770 --> 00:54:57,270 so, and the word decentralization is being thrown around a lot. 1044 00:54:57,300 --> 00:54:58,430 and I always. 1045 00:54:59,251 --> 00:55:04,211 I always suspect things that throw around the word decentralization, 1046 00:55:04,261 --> 00:55:09,661 because to me, decentralization in Bitcoin is an unfortunate means to a 1047 00:55:09,661 --> 00:55:16,091 greater end, which is sound money, like censorship resistance, all of that stuff. 1048 00:55:17,651 --> 00:55:21,341 Decentralization, it would be way easier if it could be decentralized 1049 00:55:21,341 --> 00:55:25,241 and someone could be trusted, then we would only need one Excel sheet and not 1050 00:55:25,241 --> 00:55:27,611 this entire distributed ledger system. 1051 00:55:28,171 --> 00:55:31,701 So the only reason we need decentralization in Bitcoin , is 1052 00:55:31,761 --> 00:55:34,371 to, allow for all the other awesome stuff that it does. 1053 00:55:34,998 --> 00:55:37,468 I don't really see that in Nostr. 1054 00:55:37,478 --> 00:55:41,598 The Nostr is still going to be, uh, through relays and there will 1055 00:55:41,598 --> 00:55:44,728 be premium relays where you pay for a service and everything. 1056 00:55:45,258 --> 00:55:49,745 But that's sort of the same monetization, uh, structure that is. 1057 00:55:49,910 --> 00:55:51,390 going on in the other big things. 1058 00:55:51,390 --> 00:55:54,780 I don't, I don't really see this not taking the same 1059 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,210 path as every other internet. 1060 00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:58,550 I know it's a protocol. 1061 00:55:58,550 --> 00:56:04,710 So, but, but if you look at SMTP, for instance, and email providers, they have 1062 00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:11,690 sort of centralized, most people use Gmail or, or whatever, Apple Mail or Microsoft. 1063 00:56:11,690 --> 00:56:15,418 I don't know if there's an Apple Mail, but, I, I have a hard time 1064 00:56:15,418 --> 00:56:18,581 seeing how Noster itself solves that. 1065 00:56:18,821 --> 00:56:24,008 Bitcoin may solve it somehow, but cryptography is not enough. 1066 00:56:24,013 --> 00:56:28,478 I know Giggy is a big Noster fan and he, but he is also the guy that said 1067 00:56:28,478 --> 00:56:31,298 Crisp crypto cryptography is not enough. 1068 00:56:32,603 --> 00:56:36,793 Your identity on Nostr is a cryptographic public key and a private key, right? 1069 00:56:37,513 --> 00:56:42,013 So, what if you fire up a million accounts, or a million key pairs, 1070 00:56:42,593 --> 00:56:50,136 and, uh, you, uh, you send a bunch of sats from 999, 999 of those 1071 00:56:50,136 --> 00:56:52,306 accounts to the millionth account. 1072 00:56:52,836 --> 00:57:00,068 Then most of the algorithms on the relays will, put your Nostr posts high up in 1073 00:57:00,068 --> 00:57:05,188 people's feed, uh, because there's no way of, verifying that the, the key 1074 00:57:05,188 --> 00:57:07,808 pairs are actually not the same person. 1075 00:57:07,838 --> 00:57:12,688 So, so you run into all these bot problems and everything that are already 1076 00:57:12,688 --> 00:57:14,158 in all the other social networks. 1077 00:57:14,608 --> 00:57:18,938 And I, I'm not saying I don't buy it completely because I'm still 1078 00:57:19,298 --> 00:57:21,188 eager to learn more about Nostr. 1079 00:57:22,758 --> 00:57:27,578 But I have a hard time seeing the why it's such a different thing. 1080 00:57:27,771 --> 00:57:30,191 you know, influencers will still influence. 1081 00:57:30,241 --> 00:57:32,975 They will still play the same game as they're playing now. 1082 00:57:32,975 --> 00:57:34,355 They'll just be playing it for sats. 1083 00:57:34,405 --> 00:57:38,245 If anything, that might even give them a bigger incentive to. 1084 00:57:39,025 --> 00:57:43,975 To post stuff that attracts a lot of views and attracts a lot of attention, 1085 00:57:43,985 --> 00:57:48,105 because that will lead directly to them, receiving a lot of sats. 1086 00:57:49,075 --> 00:57:52,755 it a solution or is it just amplifying the problem? 1087 00:57:52,785 --> 00:57:54,675 I'm, I have mixed feelings about this. 1088 00:57:54,675 --> 00:57:55,384 I, I, I don't know. 1089 00:57:55,385 --> 00:57:57,235 I haven't made up my mind yet. 1090 00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,210 You're going to send me down another rabbit hole after today's chat. 1091 00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:02,730 Uh, I really want to explore that more. 1092 00:58:02,730 --> 00:58:03,530 That's very interesting. 1093 00:58:03,630 --> 00:58:08,090 I, I do, if your posts get zapped more on Nostr, does that, is there some sort of 1094 00:58:08,110 --> 00:58:11,300 algo on Nostr where that post gets shown 1095 00:58:11,425 --> 00:58:16,895 that's, well, that's up to each and every, uh, uh, uh, relay, right? 1096 00:58:17,165 --> 00:58:18,105 It's called a relay, right? 1097 00:58:18,431 --> 00:58:20,401 I think it's more like the client can 1098 00:58:20,736 --> 00:58:21,366 Oh, client. 1099 00:58:21,396 --> 00:58:21,636 Yeah. 1100 00:58:21,686 --> 00:58:21,966 Yeah. 1101 00:58:22,636 --> 00:58:22,886 Yeah. 1102 00:58:22,896 --> 00:58:23,086 But 1103 00:58:23,251 --> 00:58:28,461 I mean, you, you can, you can put settings in your client to say, show more popular 1104 00:58:28,461 --> 00:58:31,561 stuff, I think, but it's not really good. 1105 00:58:32,051 --> 00:58:36,111 Uh, I've, I've not had any experience other than that you just show things 1106 00:58:36,111 --> 00:58:38,431 in descending order basically. 1107 00:58:39,036 --> 00:58:44,366 So, so if you flip not your keys, not your coins, that means. 1108 00:58:44,940 --> 00:58:47,850 uh, not your bitcoins, not your information. 1109 00:58:48,100 --> 00:58:49,110 You know what I mean? 1110 00:58:49,340 --> 00:58:53,460 The only information that is actually yours is still Bitcoin. 1111 00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:57,280 that's the only , string of information that you can actually own. 1112 00:58:57,831 --> 00:59:02,478 otherwise, it's still up to the, the, the Nostr clients and the relays and 1113 00:59:02,478 --> 00:59:06,681 stuff to, curate whatever comes from you and to other people's feeds. 1114 00:59:07,191 --> 00:59:08,541 You don't have any say in that. 1115 00:59:08,551 --> 00:59:11,031 So it doesn't really matter if you own your. 1116 00:59:13,261 --> 00:59:18,111 I think there ought to be a bigger debate about the pros and cons of Nostr because 1117 00:59:18,111 --> 00:59:23,121 it's, it's sort of like, oh, Jack Dorsey is on board and he put 50 million into it. 1118 00:59:23,121 --> 00:59:27,441 It must be good because he's a monk now, I'm yet to be convinced. 1119 00:59:27,441 --> 00:59:30,191 I'm not saying I'm against it or anything like that. 1120 00:59:30,191 --> 00:59:30,761 I'm, I'm. 1121 00:59:31,161 --> 00:59:35,571 Eager to learn more and eager to have people try to poke holes in 1122 00:59:35,571 --> 00:59:39,881 my, uh, you know, devil's advocate arguments that I've given to you now. 1123 00:59:40,770 --> 00:59:41,550 I think that's healthy. 1124 00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,414 We need devil's advocates, arguments. 1125 00:59:44,604 --> 00:59:46,664 I saw a really good podcast earlier in the week. 1126 00:59:46,894 --> 00:59:49,604 There's a little bit of a debate between, uh, uh, my buddy, 1127 00:59:49,604 --> 00:59:50,904 George Gammon and Jeff Booth. 1128 00:59:51,324 --> 00:59:52,654 And a lot of people were giving George 1129 00:59:52,809 --> 00:59:53,379 saw that. 1130 00:59:53,554 --> 00:59:54,084 Yeah. 1131 00:59:54,396 --> 00:59:56,166 I, I, I love a devil's advocate. 1132 00:59:56,286 --> 00:59:59,576 I think, I think it's good that people poke holes in all of our arguments. 1133 00:59:59,576 --> 01:00:00,996 I welcome it, but personally, 1134 01:00:01,426 --> 01:00:07,256 And yeah, I, I, um, I gave Jeff a call afterwards and I complimented him on that 1135 01:00:07,486 --> 01:00:10,226 episode because it's, uh, it's so good. 1136 01:00:10,396 --> 01:00:11,866 He's so good in debates. 1137 01:00:12,706 --> 01:00:14,001 Like, uh, he just. 1138 01:00:14,331 --> 01:00:20,671 Takes an attack and, uh, turns it into courtesy and, uh, a counter 1139 01:00:20,671 --> 01:00:21,881 argument on a silver plate. 1140 01:00:21,881 --> 01:00:22,961 And it's just beautiful. 1141 01:00:23,342 --> 01:00:24,182 he's one of a kind, 1142 01:00:24,690 --> 01:00:26,350 He's definitely one of a kind. 1143 01:00:27,194 --> 01:00:31,214 The show is also sponsored by Orange Pill App, the Bitcoin only social network where 1144 01:00:31,214 --> 01:00:32,874 you can stack friends who stack sats. 1145 01:00:33,474 --> 01:00:36,334 You can connect with your favorite Bitcoiners on the app, make local 1146 01:00:36,334 --> 01:00:39,384 connections, and even connect with Bitcoiners around the world. 1147 01:00:39,934 --> 01:00:43,434 You can see what's going on in your area and organize and attend local events. 1148 01:00:43,875 --> 01:00:46,625 I've been to multiple events organized on Orange Pill App and they brought 1149 01:00:46,625 --> 01:00:48,665 Bitcoiners together from all over. 1150 01:00:49,143 --> 01:00:52,353 And now, with group chat, it's easier than ever to stay in touch 1151 01:00:52,353 --> 01:00:53,673 with all your Bitcoin friends. 1152 01:00:54,082 --> 01:00:56,272 The best part is you know it's high signal. 1153 01:00:56,362 --> 01:00:59,352 There's no spam on OrangePillApp because everyone pays to be there. 1154 01:00:59,563 --> 01:01:02,898 So download OrangePillApp on Apple or Android and start building 1155 01:01:02,918 --> 01:01:04,218 your local network of Bitcoiners. 1156 01:01:05,036 --> 01:01:06,636 Next up, The Bitcoin Way. 1157 01:01:07,166 --> 01:01:10,476 Their mission is to onboard, educate, and remove barriers to 1158 01:01:10,476 --> 01:01:12,086 taking self custody of your bitcoin. 1159 01:01:12,636 --> 01:01:16,946 They cover everything from cold wallets to nodes, no KYC bitcoin purchases, 1160 01:01:16,996 --> 01:01:19,426 inheritance planning, payments, and more. 1161 01:01:19,956 --> 01:01:22,766 Whether you're new to bitcoin or you're an experienced bitcoiner looking to 1162 01:01:22,776 --> 01:01:26,646 expand your freedom footprint, Or you know someone who this sounds perfect for? 1163 01:01:27,006 --> 01:01:28,926 The Bitcoin Way has something for you. 1164 01:01:29,566 --> 01:01:33,086 They have a skilled team, well versed in the Bitcoin space, and their goal is to 1165 01:01:33,086 --> 01:01:36,976 make all the complexities of Bitcoin as straightforward as possible for everyone. 1166 01:01:37,536 --> 01:01:40,036 And the best part is you can get started with a free 30 1167 01:01:40,036 --> 01:01:41,216 minute call with their team. 1168 01:01:41,736 --> 01:01:43,276 Go to thebitcoinway. 1169 01:01:43,296 --> 01:01:45,506 com slash contact for more info. 1170 01:01:46,107 --> 01:01:48,007 Our newest sponsor is Geyser. 1171 01:01:48,337 --> 01:01:51,227 They are the portal to the creator economy on Bitcoin. 1172 01:01:51,927 --> 01:01:55,647 On Geyser, creators can monetize their work through their communities 1173 01:01:55,677 --> 01:01:57,297 in a social and engaging way. 1174 01:01:57,677 --> 01:02:00,467 And supporters can send sats to their favorite projects. 1175 01:02:00,914 --> 01:02:04,214 Geyser has also recently integrated with Zapps and Podcasting 2. 1176 01:02:04,214 --> 01:02:04,674 0. 1177 01:02:05,024 --> 01:02:08,574 So every Zapp sent to a Geyser address shows up on the Geyser page. 1178 01:02:09,334 --> 01:02:10,794 We have a Geyser fund ourselves. 1179 01:02:10,804 --> 01:02:12,964 It's the best way to support our show directly with Bitcoin. 1180 01:02:13,974 --> 01:02:17,834 So whether you're a creator or a supporter, check out geyser at geyser. 1181 01:02:17,834 --> 01:02:18,734 fund today. 1182 01:02:19,155 --> 01:02:23,125 Well, I think, hey, I think, I think we're drifting towards maybe the, the end of 1183 01:02:23,145 --> 01:02:29,232 our time here, but Luke, any last words about your, your views on the near term? 1184 01:02:29,232 --> 01:02:32,202 What do you think we can expect in the next few months for Bitcoin? 1185 01:02:32,935 --> 01:02:34,555 Or anything else you want to talk about? 1186 01:02:35,460 --> 01:02:37,030 Anything else I want to talk about? 1187 01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:41,770 I, I think, uh, right now I would not have a clue what's going to happen, uh, 1188 01:02:41,770 --> 01:02:45,440 in Bitcoin, apart from the fact that we got a halving in around 210 days. 1189 01:02:45,850 --> 01:02:48,150 Uh, a lot of people are saying, you know, the halving's. 1190 01:02:48,380 --> 01:02:50,210 Priced in as they do every year. 1191 01:02:50,550 --> 01:02:52,500 I don't think the Harvey's priced in. 1192 01:02:52,530 --> 01:02:53,860 So I expect number go up. 1193 01:02:54,180 --> 01:02:58,090 Uh, I think like if we're looking really near term again, I, I really hate near 1194 01:02:58,090 --> 01:03:01,570 term price predictions, but over the past couple of weeks, it's really interesting, 1195 01:03:01,570 --> 01:03:03,620 the Dixie has been rallying really hard. 1196 01:03:03,650 --> 01:03:07,095 So the U S dollar comparatively is getting stronger than other fiat currencies. 1197 01:03:07,095 --> 01:03:07,360 Normally that decimates Bitcoin. 1198 01:03:09,650 --> 01:03:11,580 Normally, that's a risk off environment. 1199 01:03:11,850 --> 01:03:14,260 Normally, that's when bonds are bid. 1200 01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:18,280 People buy bonds, they sell stocks and other assets like Bitcoin, and they 1201 01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:20,720 buy gold bonds and the Dixie rallies. 1202 01:03:20,970 --> 01:03:21,590 Not this time. 1203 01:03:21,690 --> 01:03:23,690 It was really interesting in the past couple of weeks, Bitcoin's 1204 01:03:23,690 --> 01:03:25,460 actually kind of diverged from gold. 1205 01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:29,100 Bitcoin's been pumping, gold's been dumping as well as every 1206 01:03:29,100 --> 01:03:30,270 other asset class over the past. 1207 01:03:30,535 --> 01:03:31,285 3 4 weeks. 1208 01:03:31,795 --> 01:03:35,745 Uh, so there's a little bit of near term, uh, little bit of near term stuff, but, 1209 01:03:35,785 --> 01:03:37,578 you know, I prefer to zoom out, a lot. 1210 01:03:37,628 --> 01:03:43,852 I, I, I really do think Bitcoin, uh, is, uh, the, digital industrial revolution 2. 1211 01:03:43,852 --> 01:03:43,992 0. 1212 01:03:43,992 --> 01:03:45,532 Um, I think Bitcoin's that big. 1213 01:03:45,627 --> 01:03:49,677 The industrial revolution brought us these wave of five technological 1214 01:03:49,677 --> 01:03:51,237 revolutions every 50 years. 1215 01:03:51,607 --> 01:03:54,417 And I think Bitcoin is like Michael Saylor says, it's the 1216 01:03:54,417 --> 01:03:57,087 portal into the digital universe. 1217 01:03:57,087 --> 01:04:01,457 I really look at Bitcoin on a multi thousand year kind of time horizon. 1218 01:04:01,457 --> 01:04:02,337 I think Bitcoin. 1219 01:04:02,622 --> 01:04:05,702 Is going to create this wave of technological innovation that 1220 01:04:05,712 --> 01:04:07,202 we haven't seen in a long time. 1221 01:04:07,212 --> 01:04:10,782 Like we are living through this great stagnation that people like Peter Thiel 1222 01:04:11,302 --> 01:04:15,962 and Eric Weinstein correctly identify, but they just haven't quite popped their 1223 01:04:15,962 --> 01:04:18,012 finger on what's actually causing that. 1224 01:04:18,012 --> 01:04:19,332 And I think it is Bitcoin. 1225 01:04:19,432 --> 01:04:19,842 I think. 1226 01:04:20,107 --> 01:04:24,647 Bitcoin is going to do all of the things that led to the industrial revolution. 1227 01:04:24,677 --> 01:04:29,237 So what happened and what gave us this wave of 250 years of innovation, it was 1228 01:04:29,247 --> 01:04:33,607 increasing monetary velocity via central banking in the 1600s, whether that be a 1229 01:04:33,607 --> 01:04:35,247 good or a bad thing, that's what happened. 1230 01:04:35,257 --> 01:04:37,207 And that helped our economy thrive. 1231 01:04:37,567 --> 01:04:42,627 Uh, we saw, um, the wave of capitalism and, um, through the declaration 1232 01:04:42,627 --> 01:04:46,377 of independence and the French revolution in the 1770s, we saw all 1233 01:04:46,377 --> 01:04:47,747 of these property rights spring up. 1234 01:04:47,767 --> 01:04:50,007 I don't think it's a coincidence. 1235 01:04:50,137 --> 01:04:53,977 That we saw this wave of, you know, capitalism, democracy is a shit coin. 1236 01:04:54,237 --> 01:04:57,133 but we saw more property rights in the 1770s and that gave 1237 01:04:57,133 --> 01:04:58,233 us all of this innovation. 1238 01:04:58,543 --> 01:05:02,433 And we saw, uh, an enormous increase in the amount of energy we used in the 1600s 1239 01:05:03,053 --> 01:05:05,473 when we found coal as an energy source. 1240 01:05:05,473 --> 01:05:08,963 I think all of those key ingredients led to 250 years of 1241 01:05:08,963 --> 01:05:10,443 prosperity that we have seen. 1242 01:05:10,693 --> 01:05:12,793 And I think Bitcoin is going to do that for the digital age. 1243 01:05:12,853 --> 01:05:16,053 It increases the amount of energy we use and it captures wasted energy. 1244 01:05:16,303 --> 01:05:19,333 Gives property rights to every single person around the world, irrespective 1245 01:05:19,333 --> 01:05:23,303 of where they are or whether they are unbanked, like the 2 billion ish people 1246 01:05:23,303 --> 01:05:24,553 who are unbanked around the world. 1247 01:05:24,893 --> 01:05:27,023 and Bitcoin increases monetary velocity. 1248 01:05:27,053 --> 01:05:29,213 Um, so I, again, always like to zoom out. 1249 01:05:29,483 --> 01:05:31,183 Um, I look at Bitcoin on that kind of. 1250 01:05:31,568 --> 01:05:33,678 how does it increase monitor velocity? 1251 01:05:34,348 --> 01:05:38,688 Well, right now, we have all of this friction, uh, swapping fiat currency 1252 01:05:38,688 --> 01:05:40,598 to fiat currency, and we also have, 1253 01:05:40,608 --> 01:05:41,608 But, but it's. 1254 01:05:41,842 --> 01:05:45,182 devil's advocate argument for that, because it's deflationary. 1255 01:05:45,275 --> 01:05:49,365 and until, uh, until everything divided by 21 million, nothing 1256 01:05:49,365 --> 01:05:50,855 is priced in correctly. 1257 01:05:51,142 --> 01:05:54,832 and when that happens, when people realize that I'm not selling this. 1258 01:05:55,602 --> 01:05:56,062 ever. 1259 01:05:56,202 --> 01:05:57,612 Like, because it's so fucking good. 1260 01:05:57,632 --> 01:06:03,672 Like, at least more and more people will trend towards that, 1261 01:06:04,232 --> 01:06:06,582 then I, Oh, this is awesome. 1262 01:06:06,582 --> 01:06:07,582 I want to spend it all. 1263 01:06:07,812 --> 01:06:09,162 Like, it doesn't matter. 1264 01:06:09,722 --> 01:06:13,822 Uh, people will spend money, use money less and less. 1265 01:06:13,872 --> 01:06:16,722 That's, that's the, the argument I was trying to make before. 1266 01:06:17,273 --> 01:06:22,203 If I, if I try to come up with an example, it would be if 10 really, 1267 01:06:22,203 --> 01:06:26,763 really rich friends decide to have dinner every night, each night, 1268 01:06:27,043 --> 01:06:28,623 one of them will pick up the bill. 1269 01:06:29,463 --> 01:06:31,633 So 10 transactions are made in total. 1270 01:06:31,837 --> 01:06:34,910 if they're nice and wealthy, like all Bitcoiners will be in the future. 1271 01:06:35,270 --> 01:06:41,670 So, and, if 10 poor people decide to eat together every night, each one of them 1272 01:06:41,670 --> 01:06:45,310 will buy their own pack of noodles because they can't afford to pick up the bill. 1273 01:06:45,670 --> 01:06:47,730 So, a hundred transactions happen. 1274 01:06:48,100 --> 01:06:52,580 This might be a bad analogy or whatever, but, but still. 1275 01:06:52,878 --> 01:06:57,128 I do suspect that fewer transactions will happen over time 1276 01:06:57,308 --> 01:06:59,588 in a deflationary environment. 1277 01:06:59,848 --> 01:07:03,048 So the velocity of money is sort of, in my mind, that's sort of a 1278 01:07:03,088 --> 01:07:08,578 Keynesian metric to begin with, and not something to necessarily strive for. 1279 01:07:08,888 --> 01:07:12,878 Micro transactions is a very fiat y thing in my mind. 1280 01:07:13,148 --> 01:07:17,688 Like when you have to pay to go to the bathroom in the central station somewhere, 1281 01:07:18,158 --> 01:07:20,568 uh, and you have to have a coin to... 1282 01:07:20,858 --> 01:07:24,908 To get your cards for the supermarket or whatever, those are all very 1283 01:07:24,908 --> 01:07:26,898 fiat inventions, in my mind. 1284 01:07:26,908 --> 01:07:31,582 And, I see a Bitcoin standard where you pay for something maybe once a year, and 1285 01:07:31,582 --> 01:07:36,022 then there's some sort of subscription model, because that's way, way easier 1286 01:07:36,022 --> 01:07:39,732 for both the customer and the provider or whatever good a service it is. 1287 01:07:40,172 --> 01:07:43,198 So I see, velocity of money going down and not up. 1288 01:07:44,928 --> 01:07:47,378 And now there's a, there's another thought nugget for you. 1289 01:07:48,138 --> 01:07:51,278 I love Thought Nuggets, I, I think I agree with you in a hundred years, 1290 01:07:51,368 --> 01:07:55,458 I think in a hundred years, there'll be less transactions, I think getting 1291 01:07:55,458 --> 01:07:59,538 there, I'm not sure how that's going to unfold, I think I agree though, monetary 1292 01:07:59,538 --> 01:08:04,258 velocity is potentially not the best way to frame it, maybe I should say global 1293 01:08:04,318 --> 01:08:08,658 interconnectedness, a little bit less catchy, but, uh, like I think central 1294 01:08:08,708 --> 01:08:09,268 love it. 1295 01:08:09,508 --> 01:08:10,048 Love it. 1296 01:08:10,723 --> 01:08:14,673 Yeah, like, I think central banking gave the ability for more trade. 1297 01:08:14,843 --> 01:08:18,063 Uh, you can, it's simply, it's a lot easier to send paper receipts to Europe 1298 01:08:18,293 --> 01:08:19,893 than it is to ship a boatload of gold. 1299 01:08:19,903 --> 01:08:22,563 And I think Bitcoin does that for the 1. 1300 01:08:22,693 --> 01:08:24,883 7 billion people who are unbanked around the world. 1301 01:08:25,093 --> 01:08:27,713 All of a sudden they can send value to someone on the other side of 1302 01:08:27,713 --> 01:08:31,173 the world, irrespective of them being in Venezuela or Africa. 1303 01:08:31,458 --> 01:08:32,008 Yeah. 1304 01:08:32,158 --> 01:08:37,468 Uh, I'm just trying to make the argument that just, it's great that it's easier. 1305 01:08:37,558 --> 01:08:39,618 The Lightning Network is fantastic. 1306 01:08:39,628 --> 01:08:44,668 Like it's, it's absolutely awesome to be able to, to accept Lightning 1307 01:08:44,738 --> 01:08:47,588 and to pay with Lightning wherever I'm at the Bitcoin conference. 1308 01:08:47,648 --> 01:08:48,348 I love it. 1309 01:08:48,998 --> 01:08:53,275 having said that though, I suspect that making something easy, it's not. 1310 01:08:53,610 --> 01:08:57,360 necessarily going to increase its usage. 1311 01:08:58,730 --> 01:09:04,850 I mean, it's probably easier to manufacture a horse cart these days than 1312 01:09:04,940 --> 01:09:11,843 in the 19th century, but still, there's Less demand for them, also bad analogy, 1313 01:09:12,093 --> 01:09:18,903 but I think as we move into the future, we will see, we'll see people figure 1314 01:09:18,903 --> 01:09:24,490 out other ways of interacting with one another's value systems, like, Bitcoin 1315 01:09:24,730 --> 01:09:30,970 will be used, but not necessarily nondeclassification of Bitcoin. 1316 01:09:31,505 --> 01:09:38,012 We can see people just, trading with their reputational capital, I mean, value for 1317 01:09:38,012 --> 01:09:42,042 value is not only SATs, it's, services. 1318 01:09:42,070 --> 01:09:45,762 in general, like the way I see it, we're, engaged in a trade. 1319 01:09:45,762 --> 01:09:48,582 Right now we're exchanging information, one with one another. 1320 01:09:48,932 --> 01:09:50,582 you are giving me your life. 1321 01:09:50,762 --> 01:09:52,742 I'm giving you my life right now. 1322 01:09:52,795 --> 01:09:54,155 This is this moment. 1323 01:09:54,605 --> 01:09:55,945 It's not coming back. 1324 01:09:56,045 --> 01:09:57,345 I'm giving it away to you. 1325 01:09:57,385 --> 01:10:01,358 And you're gracious enough to give away piece of your life to me right now. 1326 01:10:01,358 --> 01:10:04,725 And I'm wandering away here, I think. 1327 01:10:04,735 --> 01:10:10,685 But I'd like to plant these little, these little seeds of something 1328 01:10:10,685 --> 01:10:14,105 that will lead to that which you can do without your own mind. 1329 01:10:14,105 --> 01:10:14,125 Thank you. 1330 01:10:14,525 --> 01:10:17,425 That's the big insight at the, uh, the, the Sherry on top of 1331 01:10:17,425 --> 01:10:20,415 this, that if you don't have the craving, you don't need the thing. 1332 01:10:20,855 --> 01:10:23,845 You can be happy with just your Bitcoin stack and a toothbrush, which, 1333 01:10:23,895 --> 01:10:27,235 which your wall there behind you alludes to that you're already doing. 1334 01:10:27,235 --> 01:10:29,335 You're already living like that. 1335 01:10:30,300 --> 01:10:30,710 Look at it. 1336 01:10:30,730 --> 01:10:31,810 There's nothing behind me. 1337 01:10:31,810 --> 01:10:32,860 There's holes in the wall. 1338 01:10:33,270 --> 01:10:34,260 I'm stacking, baby. 1339 01:10:35,033 --> 01:10:35,623 Wonderful. 1340 01:10:35,653 --> 01:10:39,143 And maybe that is the perfect note to end things on. 1341 01:10:39,143 --> 01:10:43,023 So I'll, I'll, I'll repeat the question, but, and, uh, Knut 1342 01:10:43,153 --> 01:10:44,863 can not interrupt this time. 1343 01:10:45,223 --> 01:10:47,213 Uh, any final thoughts, Luke? 1344 01:10:48,528 --> 01:10:51,498 I don't think I have any. 1345 01:10:51,753 --> 01:10:53,633 I think we've covered so much today. 1346 01:10:54,043 --> 01:10:57,043 My final thought would be, thank you so much for having me. 1347 01:10:57,043 --> 01:10:58,133 I really appreciate it. 1348 01:10:58,203 --> 01:11:02,951 And if there's anyone out there, considering, you know, they're 1349 01:11:02,951 --> 01:11:04,531 listening to this and they've made it this far Bitcoiner. 1350 01:11:07,026 --> 01:11:08,746 Reach out and just talk to more Bitcoiners. 1351 01:11:08,886 --> 01:11:13,342 I think, I was initially very scared to talk to Bitcoiners, uh, when I was a lot 1352 01:11:13,342 --> 01:11:15,382 earlier in my Bitcoin rabbit hole journey. 1353 01:11:15,672 --> 01:11:16,342 They scared me. 1354 01:11:16,342 --> 01:11:19,572 They were toxic on Twitter back in 2019, but it was some of the 1355 01:11:19,582 --> 01:11:21,682 best, uh, things I could have done. 1356 01:11:21,712 --> 01:11:24,052 So if you knew, if you're learning about Bitcoin, reach 1357 01:11:24,052 --> 01:11:27,572 out, talk to more Bitcoiners, uh, spread the Bitcoin message. 1358 01:11:27,639 --> 01:11:28,919 and thank you so much for having me, gentlemen. 1359 01:11:29,477 --> 01:11:29,957 Wonderful. 1360 01:11:29,957 --> 01:11:32,277 And where can everyone find you, by the way? 1361 01:11:33,042 --> 01:11:38,442 So I will be shitposting on Twitter, I, um, am making videos on the Money Matters 1362 01:11:38,442 --> 01:11:42,760 YouTube channel, a couple of videos a week, yeah, if you want to tell me they're 1363 01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:47,260 shit, or if you want to tell me you don't like, uh, me for any reason, send 1364 01:11:47,260 --> 01:11:51,707 me your hate mail, I am open to it, I, you'll find me on Twitter, I'm everywhere. 1365 01:11:52,070 --> 01:11:55,490 Well, look, we appreciate what you and what you do a lot. 1366 01:11:55,520 --> 01:12:00,785 And I, I love this conversation and I'd like to continue preferably 1367 01:12:00,815 --> 01:12:04,795 in real life sometimes or away from keyboard, as we say. 1368 01:12:05,022 --> 01:12:08,032 yeah, thank you very much for coming on our show and, uh, good luck with 1369 01:12:08,032 --> 01:12:11,542 everything you do and just reach out if there's anything you want. 1370 01:12:12,537 --> 01:12:12,917 thank you. 1371 01:12:12,917 --> 01:12:14,177 I really appreciate that. 1372 01:12:14,197 --> 01:12:16,707 Uh, that means a lot, uh, coming from yourself, Knut. 1373 01:12:16,807 --> 01:12:19,257 I've read two of your books, not, not four. 1374 01:12:19,257 --> 01:12:20,347 I think you have four now. 1375 01:12:20,347 --> 01:12:24,177 I've read, uh, Infinity Divided by 21 Million and, uh, 1376 01:12:24,617 --> 01:12:25,917 Sovereignty Through Mathematics. 1377 01:12:25,957 --> 01:12:26,947 That's the other one I've read. 1378 01:12:26,997 --> 01:12:28,747 So it means a lot coming from yourself. 1379 01:12:29,087 --> 01:12:29,887 Thank you so much. 1380 01:12:31,247 --> 01:12:31,727 Thank you. 1381 01:12:31,777 --> 01:12:35,447 And, uh, yeah, hope you enjoy the, the other two books. 1382 01:12:36,307 --> 01:12:37,077 I'll get there. 1383 01:12:37,137 --> 01:12:37,557 I'll get there. 1384 01:12:37,567 --> 01:12:39,227 Praxeology is the next one on my list. 1385 01:12:40,317 --> 01:12:40,747 Yeah. 1386 01:12:40,747 --> 01:12:40,817 Yeah. 1387 01:12:40,877 --> 01:12:42,937 I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, afterwards. 1388 01:12:43,137 --> 01:12:45,607 So make sure to send a DM or something. 1389 01:12:45,957 --> 01:12:47,227 Anyway, thanks a lot 1390 01:12:47,696 --> 01:12:48,526 Thanks a lot, Luke. 1391 01:12:48,961 --> 01:12:49,621 thanks, Danja. 1392 01:12:49,852 --> 01:12:50,242 Take care. 1393 01:12:51,731 --> 01:12:54,061 So what did you think of that episode with Luke? 1394 01:12:54,241 --> 01:12:55,401 What was your favorite moment? 1395 01:12:55,561 --> 01:12:56,331 Let us know. 1396 01:12:56,721 --> 01:12:59,921 You can send us a boostergram on Fountain, leave us a comment on YouTube, 1397 01:13:00,071 --> 01:13:01,941 or get in touch on Nostr or Twitter. 1398 01:13:02,621 --> 01:13:04,761 If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like the episode 1399 01:13:04,761 --> 01:13:05,961 and subscribe to the channel. 1400 01:13:06,401 --> 01:13:10,151 Our show's sponsors are Amber App, Wasabi Wallet, Orange Pill 1401 01:13:10,171 --> 01:13:12,461 App, The Bitcoin Way, and Geyser. 1402 01:13:12,801 --> 01:13:14,501 Check out their details in the description. 1403 01:13:15,341 --> 01:13:16,271 That's all for now. 1404 01:13:16,651 --> 01:13:19,121 See you next time and thanks for listening.