July 11, 2023

Bitcoin Evangelism with Brian De Mint - Freedom Footprint 40

Bitcoin Evangelism with Brian De Mint - Freedom Footprint 40

In this episode we are joined by Brian De Mint, author of Bitcoin Evangelism and Chief Marketing Officer at Orange Pill App. 
Today we dig more into how Orange Pill App is connecting Bitcoiners around the world, we discuss Bitcoin’s marketing problem...

The player is loading ...
The Bitcoin Infinity Show

In this episode we are joined by Brian De Mint, author of Bitcoin Evangelism and Chief Marketing Officer at Orange Pill App. 

Today we dig more into how Orange Pill App is connecting Bitcoiners around the world, we discuss Bitcoin’s marketing problem, and we hear about how Brian is spreading the bitcoin message to no-coiners and alt-coiners through his book, Bitcoin Evangelism. 

Connect with Brian on Orange Pill App! And also on Twitter: https://twitter.com/BrianDeMint

00:00:00 - Intro 
00:02:41 - Welcoming Brian De Mint
00:04:41 - Introduction to Brian
00:07:06 - Bitcoin Evangelism
00:08:19 - Orange Pill App
00:18:21 - Conferences and Events
00:23:45 - Evangelizing Bitcoin
00:32:01 - Centralization vs Decentralization
00:41:41 - Brian's Business Background
00:49:48 - Bitcoin's Marketing Problem
00:57:13 - When Did Bitcoin Make It? 
01:08:41 - Bitcoin and Violence
01:12:06 - Bitcoin is Keeping a Secret
01:18:44 - Wrapping Up - Where to Find Brian De Mint

The Freedom Footprint Show is hosted by Knut Svanholm and BTCPseudoFinn. We are concerned about your Freedom Footprint! Join us as we talk to #bitcoin philosophers about how #bitcoin can expand your Freedom Footprint and much more!

The show is sponsored by Wasabi Wallet, the privacy-focused desktop wallet with Tor and coinjoin built in. The coins you send to the wallet are coinjoined through Tor, so when you take the coins out they are private. Visit https://wasabiwallet.io/ and download Wasabi Wallet!

The show is sponsored by Orange Pill App, the social network for bitcoiners aiming to increase hyperbitcoinization in your local area. Download the Orange Pill App today! See https://www.theorangepillapp.com/ for details and connect with them on Twitter https://twitter.com/orangepillapp

The show is sponspored by bitcoinbook.shop, the #bitcoin only bookshop by Konsensus Network. Check out https://bitcoinbook.shop/ for Bitcoin books in more than a dozen languages, both original and in translation. Use code FOOTPRINT for 10% off at bitcoinbook.shop! 

Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/FootprintShow
https://twitter.com/knutsvanholm
https://twitter.com/BtcPseudoFinn
https://twitter.com/KonsensusN

Visit our websites for more info:
https://konsensus.network/
https://bitcoinbook.shop/
https://www.knutsvanholm.com/

The Freedom Footprint Show is a Bitcoin podcast hosted by Knut Svanholm and Luke de Wolf.

In each episode, we explore everything from deep philosophy to practical tools to emit freedom dioxide to expand your freedom footprint!

Transcript
1 00:00:05,132 --> 00:00:08,823 I wanted to share with those people that were like myself, that were in the 2 00:00:08,923 --> 00:00:11,263 altcoin space of why Bitcoin matters. 3 00:00:11,298 --> 00:00:15,000 I haven't read a lot of books that talk about the Altcoin space. 4 00:00:15,300 --> 00:00:18,450 . And so the book Chronicles Here's what. 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:24,060 Is interesting about the coin space, but here's ultimately why that stuff fails, 6 00:00:24,060 --> 00:00:25,650 or why that stuff falls on its face. 7 00:00:25,709 --> 00:00:28,439 one of the biggest strokes of genius I think Mateo had when he was creating 8 00:00:28,439 --> 00:00:30,779 the app was creating a paywall. 9 00:00:30,779 --> 00:00:32,729 I would've never done that cause I would've thought, wow, 10 00:00:32,789 --> 00:00:33,929 we're creating a social network. 11 00:00:33,929 --> 00:00:37,709 We need as many users as possible because then that will make more users come in. 12 00:00:38,219 --> 00:00:41,939 Mateo from the very beginning, had this approach of quality over quantity. 13 00:00:42,387 --> 00:00:44,537 and that's just so in line with the Bitcoin ethos. 14 00:00:44,687 --> 00:00:48,227 It's like, I, I don't care if I have a million connections or not. 15 00:00:48,227 --> 00:00:52,277 I want a few really high quality, high signal connections. 16 00:00:52,488 --> 00:00:53,028 but guess what? 17 00:00:53,028 --> 00:00:56,578 When that happens, when you, when you create a few high quality connections, 18 00:00:57,137 --> 00:01:01,286 People see that and they wanna be a part of that, and it actually grows and grows. 19 00:01:01,286 --> 00:01:06,086 And so we're seeing a pretty nice little, uh, streak of growth right now because 20 00:01:06,091 --> 00:01:07,466 people are connecting through the app. 21 00:01:31,566 --> 00:01:35,376 Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint Show a Bitcoin philosophy show with Knut 22 00:01:35,376 --> 00:01:37,836 Svanholm and me Luke, the Pseudo Finn. 23 00:01:38,493 --> 00:01:43,293 Today we're joined by Brian De Mint, author of Bitcoin Evangelism and Chief 24 00:01:43,293 --> 00:01:45,153 Marketing Officer at Orange Bill App. 25 00:01:46,248 --> 00:01:49,668 In today's episode, we dig more into how Orange Bill app is connecting 26 00:01:49,848 --> 00:01:50,988 Bitcoiners around the world. 27 00:01:51,348 --> 00:01:54,828 We discuss Bitcoin's marketing problem and we hear about how Brian 28 00:01:54,828 --> 00:01:58,218 is spreading the Bitcoin message to no coins and alt pointers through 29 00:01:58,218 --> 00:02:00,138 his book Bitcoin Evangelism. 30 00:02:00,701 --> 00:02:03,161 Before we dive in, we'd like to quickly remind you that the best way 31 00:02:03,166 --> 00:02:06,161 to support the show is to send us a boost or a stream us some SATs. 32 00:02:06,536 --> 00:02:09,176 Using a Value for Value podcasting app such as Fountain. 33 00:02:10,076 --> 00:02:12,866 If you're listening to this show as a podcast, check out Fountain. 34 00:02:12,866 --> 00:02:16,316 If you haven't already, you can earn STAs from listening to podcasts 35 00:02:16,316 --> 00:02:18,986 and you can support your favorite shows through value for value. 36 00:02:19,556 --> 00:02:22,106 If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like, subscribe to the 37 00:02:22,106 --> 00:02:25,526 channel and turn on notifications so you never miss a weekly episode. 38 00:02:25,846 --> 00:02:29,356 And finally, we want to thank today's sponsors Wasabi Wallet, orange 39 00:02:29,356 --> 00:02:31,606 pill App, and Bitcoin Book Shop. 40 00:02:31,995 --> 00:02:33,765 All their information is in the description. 41 00:02:33,795 --> 00:02:35,715 We'll be talking a little bit more about them later. 42 00:02:36,145 --> 00:02:41,215 And now, without further ado, here's Brian Dement on the Freedom Footprint Show. 43 00:02:41,874 --> 00:02:42,264 Okay. 44 00:02:42,264 --> 00:02:44,274 Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint Show. 45 00:02:44,334 --> 00:02:45,394 Brian, welcome. 46 00:02:45,834 --> 00:02:46,734 Thanks for joining us. 47 00:02:47,304 --> 00:02:48,714 Well, thank you guys for having me. 48 00:02:48,714 --> 00:02:49,314 I'm excited. 49 00:02:49,314 --> 00:02:50,574 This is, uh, long waited. 50 00:02:50,574 --> 00:02:53,398 I've, I've honestly, been excited about this one for a long time. 51 00:02:53,398 --> 00:02:56,188 We, we get to do a lot with the, with the book tour and stuff, but, uh, 52 00:02:56,188 --> 00:02:58,948 there's, there's certain shows that you just, you know, certain people you 53 00:02:58,948 --> 00:03:01,948 look forward to hanging out with and, uh, you and I have gotten to do, uh, 54 00:03:01,978 --> 00:03:06,538 you know, we, we did, uh, a a a spaces or a live broadcast for something else. 55 00:03:06,538 --> 00:03:10,918 But yeah, looking forward to kind of being a little bit more focused attention today. 56 00:03:11,168 --> 00:03:13,918 Yeah, that was a bigger, bigger group last time, so, 57 00:03:14,298 --> 00:03:17,868 Yeah, we've done a bunch of spaces together at this point, right? 58 00:03:17,868 --> 00:03:17,928 Yeah. 59 00:03:18,108 --> 00:03:23,238 Um, oh, the OPA spaces where you're, you, you usually host the orange pill, 60 00:03:23,768 --> 00:03:28,388 Twitter spaces and it's always good fun to be in those, uh, I don't know how you 61 00:03:28,388 --> 00:03:30,758 manage to find all those nice guests. 62 00:03:31,568 --> 00:03:31,778 I mean, 63 00:03:33,178 --> 00:03:37,838 you know what, it's, it's been, it's been nice because orange pill hops starting to 64 00:03:37,838 --> 00:03:40,118 get a little bit of its own reputation. 65 00:03:40,118 --> 00:03:44,838 And so I found that, uh, as long as I don't reach out to them as myself, they 66 00:03:44,838 --> 00:03:48,518 don't, they don't care when I reach out who on orange pill App reaches out. 67 00:03:48,518 --> 00:03:50,799 They think that, that's interesting cuz I, yeah, there's just, I think 68 00:03:50,898 --> 00:03:54,578 plenty of people have been sharing their experiences about meeting 69 00:03:54,578 --> 00:03:55,688 people on the orange pill app. 70 00:03:55,688 --> 00:03:59,738 There was a, there was a couple that had a, had a meetup the other night 71 00:03:59,738 --> 00:04:02,618 and so it's, I think people are hearing these organic stories about 72 00:04:02,618 --> 00:04:06,428 orange pill app and it's, it's kind of trickling up to, uh, you know, all 73 00:04:06,428 --> 00:04:09,428 sorts of different Bitcoiners and so people are fascinated by what's going 74 00:04:09,428 --> 00:04:11,588 on and that just gives us access to. 75 00:04:12,453 --> 00:04:13,683 Plenty of interesting people. 76 00:04:14,523 --> 00:04:14,913 Yeah. 77 00:04:14,913 --> 00:04:19,893 Um, and, uh, the, that, that's sort of what you do too. 78 00:04:19,893 --> 00:04:24,363 Like, uh, Luke, you, you, uh, reach out to people as the Freedom Footprint show 79 00:04:24,368 --> 00:04:27,513 and not as the Canadian Finn, I guess. 80 00:04:27,958 --> 00:04:28,678 Well, at least I can 81 00:04:28,678 --> 00:04:32,488 say I'm, you know, the co-host and producer of, of commute stunt homes. 82 00:04:33,298 --> 00:04:35,788 Well, it always helps when I name drop, but, uh, yeah, yeah, 83 00:04:35,788 --> 00:04:35,789 yeah. 84 00:04:36,088 --> 00:04:38,098 A nice, healthy name drop every once in a while. 85 00:04:38,098 --> 00:04:38,938 Never hurt anybody. 86 00:04:38,998 --> 00:04:40,258 Yeah, commute's a pretty good name 87 00:04:40,258 --> 00:04:40,528 drop. 88 00:04:40,533 --> 00:04:41,008 Definitely. 89 00:04:41,368 --> 00:04:46,748 But Brian, can you, can you give us just like a, an intro on you, a tldr or like, 90 00:04:47,008 --> 00:04:49,768 we like to say here an R on yourself? 91 00:04:51,658 --> 00:04:55,888 An R I'll give you the R um, the, uh, yeah, so the tl I don't 92 00:04:55,888 --> 00:04:57,388 think I've ever done anything. 93 00:04:57,478 --> 00:05:01,318 It's tldr it's always, I always give the, the, it's gonna be too long. 94 00:05:01,323 --> 00:05:02,398 You're not gonna wanna read this. 95 00:05:02,398 --> 00:05:07,198 So, um, but anyways, yeah, I, I, I've been in the, the bitcoin space. 96 00:05:07,198 --> 00:05:08,758 I don't know, that's such a weird thing to say. 97 00:05:08,848 --> 00:05:10,258 Um, but for about. 98 00:05:10,298 --> 00:05:12,848 10 years, I think 2013 I started studying it. 99 00:05:12,848 --> 00:05:17,701 I, so I've been an entrepreneur since 2008 and, uh, there was these entrepreneurs 100 00:05:17,791 --> 00:05:20,881 guys that I looked up to that were, tend to bought a little bit of Bitcoin. 101 00:05:20,881 --> 00:05:25,011 And so I started studying Bitcoin, honestly, as a skeptic, trying to 102 00:05:25,711 --> 00:05:26,971 tell them why they were idiots. 103 00:05:26,971 --> 00:05:30,571 It's like, I, I really respect you guys, but uh, why are you 104 00:05:30,571 --> 00:05:32,041 guys buying this funny money? 105 00:05:32,341 --> 00:05:35,901 Um, and so of course when you peel that onion back, And if you, 106 00:05:36,171 --> 00:05:40,161 truthfully, and, uh, you know, if you're rationally looking at these 107 00:05:40,161 --> 00:05:42,231 things, it tends to be very eye-opening. 108 00:05:42,231 --> 00:05:44,121 I'd never asked the question, what is money? 109 00:05:44,391 --> 00:05:47,421 I had never asked the question of how does our system work? 110 00:05:47,601 --> 00:05:49,221 How is currency created? 111 00:05:49,251 --> 00:05:52,461 I mean, you just, again, we've, we've all been through that process and that was 112 00:05:52,461 --> 00:05:56,631 how that process unfolded for me, was kind of coming at it from a skeptical lens. 113 00:05:56,931 --> 00:05:59,991 Um, so then, you know, there, you know, a little shortly after started 114 00:05:59,991 --> 00:06:03,591 buying Bitcoin, um, I wish somebody had told me about dollar cost averaging. 115 00:06:03,591 --> 00:06:06,141 I was pretty broke at the time cuz all my money was, was, was 116 00:06:06,141 --> 00:06:07,581 sunk into building my business. 117 00:06:07,881 --> 00:06:12,061 And so, uh, you know, wish, you know, wish I would've had plenty more, uh, funds to 118 00:06:12,291 --> 00:06:16,191 be able to, to buy and dollar cost average at the time, but, but just trickled in. 119 00:06:16,401 --> 00:06:21,051 And, uh, went through my altcoin phase in that 2016 ish time, uh, 120 00:06:21,051 --> 00:06:25,204 worked on an altcoin project, was, uh, was surrounded by guys that, 121 00:06:25,204 --> 00:06:27,454 that genuinely had, had good motives. 122 00:06:27,454 --> 00:06:30,964 So it wasn't like a, an outright scam on that front, but it was a, it 123 00:06:30,969 --> 00:06:34,794 was a, I guess you could call it a, a centralized group of people that, 124 00:06:35,224 --> 00:06:40,114 that didn't fully understand the, the, the big oomph to why Bitcoin 125 00:06:40,114 --> 00:06:42,004 mattered in, in, in decentralization. 126 00:06:42,009 --> 00:06:45,004 And so we could dive into some of the things that I got to experience 127 00:06:45,009 --> 00:06:48,214 through being in the marketing role for a blockchain project, 128 00:06:48,454 --> 00:06:49,714 um, that was very eye-opening. 129 00:06:49,719 --> 00:06:54,484 And it is leads to very compelling reasons of coming back to, to Bitcoin only. 130 00:06:54,784 --> 00:06:58,024 Um, so my, you know, my, my bell curve arc, or whatever you wanna call 131 00:06:58,024 --> 00:07:00,364 it, was Bitcoin only alt coin phase. 132 00:07:00,574 --> 00:07:05,104 And back here about, you know, 2019, uh, kind of landed back 133 00:07:05,104 --> 00:07:06,304 in the Bitcoin only space. 134 00:07:06,824 --> 00:07:11,414 and so, uh, then wrote a book kind of to, to talk about some of my experience. 135 00:07:11,414 --> 00:07:13,154 I, I wanted to. 136 00:07:14,539 --> 00:07:14,959 Share. 137 00:07:14,959 --> 00:07:16,219 It's called Bitcoin Evangelism. 138 00:07:16,219 --> 00:07:20,509 I wanted to share with those of those people that were like myself, that were in 139 00:07:20,509 --> 00:07:23,059 the altcoin space of why Bitcoin matters. 140 00:07:23,059 --> 00:07:27,679 I, I, I haven't read a lot of books that talk that are bitcoin only books 141 00:07:28,129 --> 00:07:29,689 that talk about the Altcoin space. 142 00:07:29,989 --> 00:07:32,139 I think one of the things I was getting from my Altcoin friends 143 00:07:32,639 --> 00:07:36,866 was that, Bitcoiners just don't understand the coin space. 144 00:07:36,896 --> 00:07:40,496 Therefore we're, you know, we were people that bought Bitcoin a long time ago, 145 00:07:40,586 --> 00:07:43,586 and so we're just hoping that Bitcoin works, and that was the only reason that 146 00:07:43,586 --> 00:07:45,236 we were pro Bitcoin or Bitcoin only. 147 00:07:45,506 --> 00:07:48,656 And so the book Chronicles Here's what. 148 00:07:49,046 --> 00:07:54,266 Is interesting about the coin space, but here's ultimately why that stuff fails, 149 00:07:54,266 --> 00:07:55,856 or why that stuff falls on its face. 150 00:07:55,856 --> 00:08:00,776 So it, it takes a very soft approach to it, um, but ultimately leads the reader 151 00:08:00,781 --> 00:08:02,906 back to a Bitcoin only, uh, approach. 152 00:08:02,906 --> 00:08:07,706 So I guess the hope with the book is if somebody's gonna go through it, as opposed 153 00:08:07,706 --> 00:08:10,916 to doing what I did and going through, you know, your bitcoin phase, your coin 154 00:08:10,916 --> 00:08:12,176 phase, and then coming back to Bitcoin. 155 00:08:12,236 --> 00:08:16,856 Hopefully you could read this book and then experience that entire process before 156 00:08:16,856 --> 00:08:19,106 having ever gone through your coin phase. 157 00:08:19,436 --> 00:08:25,496 Um, and then that in the process of doing my book tour and, and just networking 158 00:08:25,496 --> 00:08:29,516 and meeting people, I got to get in touch with orange pill app and I just 159 00:08:29,516 --> 00:08:33,056 signed up for orange pill App as a user when they launched at Pacific Bitcoin. 160 00:08:33,326 --> 00:08:37,746 Mateo, She just gave me the pitch and I was sold on the idea. 161 00:08:37,746 --> 00:08:40,716 I said, you know, this is a, I believe that this is a critical 162 00:08:40,716 --> 00:08:44,316 piece of Bitcoin's future. 163 00:08:44,316 --> 00:08:47,616 I think that we need something like this in order to facilitate 164 00:08:47,886 --> 00:08:49,626 this social layer for Bitcoin. 165 00:08:49,836 --> 00:08:53,556 And so that's what got me involved in the, the orange pill outside of things. 166 00:08:54,696 --> 00:08:54,966 Yeah. 167 00:08:54,966 --> 00:08:58,266 And the orange pill app is, is way more than just the app. 168 00:08:58,356 --> 00:09:03,336 Like, uh, now this sounds like a shameless chiller, but, but having, uh, having 169 00:09:03,336 --> 00:09:08,346 been, uh, um, an advisor for the orange pill app for a while now, and, uh, seen 170 00:09:08,346 --> 00:09:12,546 what it can do and how it brings people together, it's, it's truly remarkable. 171 00:09:12,546 --> 00:09:18,496 And also like how, how we, uh, how the, it brings Bitcoin company people 172 00:09:19,236 --> 00:09:23,466 together and all the synergies with, with Fountain App for instance, which 173 00:09:23,466 --> 00:09:25,176 we had a spaces with the other day. 174 00:09:25,476 --> 00:09:28,206 And, uh, all sorts of collaborations. 175 00:09:29,908 --> 00:09:32,158 Not least with the Konsensus Network in my book. 176 00:09:32,158 --> 00:09:37,678 So I, I know I'm biased saying this, but, but, uh, but these are not the only 177 00:09:37,678 --> 00:09:39,598 companies and not the only people in this. 178 00:09:39,718 --> 00:09:43,138 It's, uh, you can truly see the power of this thing. 179 00:09:43,138 --> 00:09:46,348 It's bringing all sorts of bitcoins together and it's, it 180 00:09:46,348 --> 00:09:49,918 is very nice and, uh, I think you're a very good spokesperson 181 00:09:49,978 --> 00:09:52,228 person for the, uh, orange pill. 182 00:09:52,558 --> 00:09:59,188 Uh, I mean, it's good to have a clear voice instead, uh, uh, 183 00:09:59,188 --> 00:10:02,608 instead of just Mateo going, uh, you need to download the Apple. 184 00:10:04,888 --> 00:10:08,998 I mean, I love Mateo and everything he does, but, uh, but, uh, it's good that 185 00:10:08,998 --> 00:10:14,428 you're in the space too and, and, uh, such a good, uh, host of all of these spaces 186 00:10:14,428 --> 00:10:18,808 and, um, and whatnot and whatever's coming down the, the Pipe for Inch Pill app. 187 00:10:18,808 --> 00:10:21,988 And I'm looking forward to, to see where, where we can take this 188 00:10:21,988 --> 00:10:23,219 thing and what it, what it can do. 189 00:10:24,163 --> 00:10:27,523 Yeah, no, I, I think that it's, it's really exciting to be a part of this team. 190 00:10:27,523 --> 00:10:30,883 I mean, that, that, that honestly was a big part of, aside from just seeing 191 00:10:30,883 --> 00:10:35,203 the vision of what Orange Pop could be, Mateo had assembled a, a pretty amazing 192 00:10:35,203 --> 00:10:38,593 group of advisors with you and Daniel Prince and Sessions and all these guys. 193 00:10:38,593 --> 00:10:41,953 So for, for him, the, the pitch to me was, Hey, do you wanna 194 00:10:41,953 --> 00:10:43,183 come work with orange pill Hop? 195 00:10:43,183 --> 00:10:45,043 And I said, I said, yeah, absolutely. 196 00:10:45,043 --> 00:10:48,013 I get to work with these guys and do a monthly meeting and, and talk to 197 00:10:48,013 --> 00:10:50,653 some of these people that I get to, you know, pick their brains and hear 198 00:10:50,653 --> 00:10:53,083 being a, an, an upstart Bitcoin author. 199 00:10:53,088 --> 00:10:55,663 And I get to talk to Knut about, I mean, again, you, your 200 00:10:55,668 --> 00:10:56,653 books in the background here. 201 00:10:56,653 --> 00:10:58,603 It's like, these are books that I've read myself. 202 00:10:58,608 --> 00:10:59,653 And then I found inspiration. 203 00:10:59,653 --> 00:11:01,483 And so that there was a lot of value add to me. 204 00:11:01,863 --> 00:11:04,993 Um, but one, I'd say one of the coolest things, like you said, that we get to 205 00:11:04,993 --> 00:11:07,333 work with these other Bitcoin companies. 206 00:11:07,713 --> 00:11:09,423 That are building in the space. 207 00:11:09,813 --> 00:11:13,743 And, uh, I found myself, even though I've always understood from an early, 208 00:11:13,893 --> 00:11:17,763 early time of being in Bitcoin that I need to lower my time preference. 209 00:11:18,379 --> 00:11:22,159 When you build in Bitcoin, when you're, when you're creating something in Bitcoin 210 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:25,580 and, and working in that space, you lower your time preference even more. 211 00:11:26,179 --> 00:11:27,299 I found that that. 212 00:11:27,759 --> 00:11:30,189 I was finding out from other people in conversation that the Bitcoin 213 00:11:30,399 --> 00:11:31,599 price was up on a certain day. 214 00:11:31,599 --> 00:11:35,379 And I, it's like, wow, I didn't, I, I don't check the Bitcoin price, uh, you 215 00:11:35,379 --> 00:11:39,369 know, 40 times a day like I used to because I've been so focused on just 216 00:11:39,369 --> 00:11:43,029 pushing the social layer of Bitcoin, like how do we make more connections? 217 00:11:43,029 --> 00:11:45,009 That was, those were the metrics that I started. 218 00:11:45,399 --> 00:11:50,469 Um, I guess finding, finding excitement in my day is like, how many books did I sell? 219 00:11:50,469 --> 00:11:51,039 Okay, great. 220 00:11:51,039 --> 00:11:53,319 That means that there's x amount of more people that are potentially 221 00:11:53,319 --> 00:11:54,219 getting orange pill today. 222 00:11:54,459 --> 00:11:56,409 How many more people signed up for orange pill app? 223 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:58,929 That's great because there's that many more social connections. 224 00:11:58,929 --> 00:12:01,779 Those were the metrics that I was constantly refreshing on my phone 225 00:12:01,784 --> 00:12:03,429 rather than the Bitcoin price. 226 00:12:03,429 --> 00:12:06,579 And so, um, it's, it's been very refreshing talking to 227 00:12:06,579 --> 00:12:07,329 other people in the space. 228 00:12:07,329 --> 00:12:10,779 Like you, you're constantly talking about how to lower our time preference. 229 00:12:10,779 --> 00:12:13,539 I mean, what if this thing takes a thousand generations? 230 00:12:13,539 --> 00:12:16,089 We should consider that a success. 231 00:12:16,479 --> 00:12:19,899 Um, and that's the mindset that I think is, is very important to have. 232 00:12:20,434 --> 00:12:23,464 And we're, you know, we're, we're, I'm getting a lot of that from working with 233 00:12:23,464 --> 00:12:25,804 Fountain and working with Geyser Fund. 234 00:12:26,674 --> 00:12:30,214 These companies aren't talking about what we're gonna do today or tomorrow. 235 00:12:30,214 --> 00:12:32,374 They're talking about what we're gonna build for the, for the next 236 00:12:32,374 --> 00:12:35,644 10 years, and let's, let's have a longer time horizon that way. 237 00:12:35,644 --> 00:12:38,214 So it's been very helpful for me in a pragmatic sense. 238 00:12:39,374 --> 00:12:40,934 A, another thing, yeah. 239 00:12:41,024 --> 00:12:46,654 Just to give a, a shout out and a mention to B2C map and Nathan, uh, who's, uh, 240 00:12:47,594 --> 00:12:52,544 Building this wonderful map of where, wherever the Bitcoin retailers and 241 00:12:52,544 --> 00:12:57,404 the Bitcoin ATMs and whatever are, uh, there's been a whole bunch of such 242 00:12:57,409 --> 00:13:02,744 services in the past, but none of them have, have been very e easily integrated 243 00:13:02,744 --> 00:13:05,234 into other websites and other apps. 244 00:13:05,494 --> 00:13:09,404 And, um, B2C MAP is work, working closely with orange pill app. 245 00:13:09,404 --> 00:13:13,934 So you can, you can get all the Bitcoin locations, so to speak, 246 00:13:13,994 --> 00:13:16,544 uh, in, directly in the app. 247 00:13:16,544 --> 00:13:22,459 So it, it's, it feels like an app that's, Putting it all together, uh, laying the 248 00:13:22,459 --> 00:13:24,029 final piece of the possible in a way. 249 00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:25,019 Well, yeah. 250 00:13:25,019 --> 00:13:29,759 And, and about 20 minutes ago, I just got off a phone call with, uh, Texas Slim. 251 00:13:29,764 --> 00:13:32,459 I'm not sure if you're familiar with him, but he runs the Beef Initiative. 252 00:13:32,969 --> 00:13:33,339 Um, oh yeah. 253 00:13:33,479 --> 00:13:37,349 And so we're, we're, yeah, we're, we're partnering with them in some capacity. 254 00:13:37,409 --> 00:13:40,979 Um, so we're, we're obviously promoting their events through the app. 255 00:13:41,039 --> 00:13:43,109 Um, we're not promoting, we're just posting them through the app 256 00:13:43,109 --> 00:13:44,009 and then they can promote 'em. 257 00:13:44,009 --> 00:13:46,589 We're gonna, you know, obviously retweet and share those events. 258 00:13:46,589 --> 00:13:50,219 But I went out to the Georgia Beach Beef Initiative, um, 259 00:13:50,309 --> 00:13:51,779 last year, and that was great. 260 00:13:51,779 --> 00:13:54,629 I mean, they're, they're, it's, it's very in line with what we're trying 261 00:13:54,634 --> 00:13:57,779 to do through orange pill app is facilitating in real life connections. 262 00:13:58,139 --> 00:14:01,919 And so they're, they're getting consumers to go and shake. 263 00:14:01,919 --> 00:14:03,719 That's their, that's their whole, you know, catchphrase is. 264 00:14:03,944 --> 00:14:06,434 Shake a rancher's hand, go and meet the rancher. 265 00:14:06,434 --> 00:14:10,274 Go and meet the guy that's growing your food or, or harvesting whatever it is, 266 00:14:10,694 --> 00:14:13,904 and actually look 'em in the eye, shake their hand, and you have this connection 267 00:14:14,054 --> 00:14:18,794 that's gonna be much more difficult for, for any encroachment of, of tyranny or 268 00:14:18,794 --> 00:14:23,384 legislation to break when you've made a, a personal connection, um, it's, it's 269 00:14:23,414 --> 00:14:27,074 much more difficult to shut that down rather than if you have simply an online 270 00:14:27,074 --> 00:14:30,704 connection and then, All they need, you know, all the, the bad guys need to do 271 00:14:30,704 --> 00:14:34,574 is shut down their online store or, you know, pause their store for some reason. 272 00:14:34,574 --> 00:14:36,374 Then you have no, you no longer have a connection. 273 00:14:36,379 --> 00:14:40,244 But, but if I have a, if I have, if there's a street that I can take to go 274 00:14:40,244 --> 00:14:44,924 to my rancher and pick up my food, that's a much more difficult bond to break. 275 00:14:45,194 --> 00:14:47,444 And so those are, those are some of the partnerships we're working 276 00:14:47,444 --> 00:14:48,614 on right now with orange pill App. 277 00:14:48,944 --> 00:14:52,634 Um, and it's really cool to see somebody like Texas Slim. 278 00:14:53,074 --> 00:14:56,884 Who I've met before, but I said, you know, how familiar are you with the orange pill? 279 00:14:57,004 --> 00:14:57,694 He said, oh my gosh. 280 00:14:57,694 --> 00:15:00,184 We were just, I was out in Australia and we were talking about that at 281 00:15:00,184 --> 00:15:01,564 the Australian Bitcoin conference. 282 00:15:01,569 --> 00:15:05,524 And, you know, people were getting really excited about this, this, uh, 283 00:15:05,764 --> 00:15:09,574 this tool that we have at our disposal to connect with people, people see the 284 00:15:09,579 --> 00:15:11,354 value of the in real life connection. 285 00:15:11,854 --> 00:15:15,904 Um, one of the most biggest, or one of the biggest strokes of genius I 286 00:15:15,904 --> 00:15:19,684 think Mateo had when he was creating the app was creating a paywall. 287 00:15:19,684 --> 00:15:22,984 Like I would've never had the foresight if I was creating a 288 00:15:22,984 --> 00:15:24,784 social network to have a paywall. 289 00:15:24,784 --> 00:15:27,334 For those that don't know, the app costs three bucks a month. 290 00:15:27,884 --> 00:15:33,494 But it's the best $3, $3 you'll ever spend because it filters out any bots 291 00:15:33,494 --> 00:15:35,054 noise or any of that kind of stuff. 292 00:15:35,534 --> 00:15:38,264 And, uh, I would've never done that cause I would've thought, wow, 293 00:15:38,324 --> 00:15:39,464 we're creating a social network. 294 00:15:39,464 --> 00:15:43,244 We need as many users as possible because then that will make more users come in. 295 00:15:43,754 --> 00:15:47,474 Mateo from the very beginning, had this approach of quality over quantity. 296 00:15:47,974 --> 00:15:50,444 Um, and that's just so in line with the Bitcoin ethos. 297 00:15:50,594 --> 00:15:54,134 It's like, I, I don't care if I have a million connections or not. 298 00:15:54,134 --> 00:15:58,184 I want a few really high quality, high signal connections. 299 00:15:58,514 --> 00:15:59,444 Um, but guess what? 300 00:15:59,444 --> 00:16:02,994 When that happens, when you, when you create a few high quality connections, 301 00:16:03,954 --> 00:16:08,174 People see that and they wanna be a part of that, and it actually grows and grows. 302 00:16:08,174 --> 00:16:12,974 And so we're seeing a pretty nice little, uh, streak of growth right now because 303 00:16:12,979 --> 00:16:14,354 people are connecting through the app. 304 00:16:14,564 --> 00:16:19,754 I was out at the, the swan salon at, uh, you know, a few weeks ago, and they 305 00:16:19,754 --> 00:16:22,904 had, you know, it's this really posh house where Swan hosts their private 306 00:16:22,904 --> 00:16:26,834 event for, for their, for their high net worth investor people or whatever. 307 00:16:27,194 --> 00:16:31,724 Um, and I'm, I was talking to a guy JD from Cypherpunk Films and he, he had 308 00:16:31,724 --> 00:16:33,134 his friend there and I said, oh, hey. 309 00:16:33,224 --> 00:16:34,454 And he said, this is my friend Derek. 310 00:16:34,454 --> 00:16:35,024 I'm like, oh, great. 311 00:16:35,024 --> 00:16:35,624 How'd you guys meet? 312 00:16:35,624 --> 00:16:38,804 And he goes, we met on orange pill App an hour before this event. 313 00:16:39,344 --> 00:16:42,854 I had a plus one ticket and I didn't have any Bitcoiners that wanted to come 314 00:16:42,854 --> 00:16:44,474 with me, so I went into orange pill app. 315 00:16:44,969 --> 00:16:48,509 And found this guy that lives kind of in my neighborhood and, uh, I 316 00:16:48,509 --> 00:16:50,609 just messaged him and said, Hey, do you wanna come to this event? 317 00:16:50,879 --> 00:16:54,359 And I said, oh, you, you know, you, you trusted that, that's, that's why did 318 00:16:54,364 --> 00:16:57,329 you feel so confident that you could go pick up a stranger in your car? 319 00:16:57,329 --> 00:16:59,609 You just pulled up out in front of his house, you d you, you 320 00:16:59,614 --> 00:17:01,049 DMed him and said, Hey, I'm here. 321 00:17:01,319 --> 00:17:03,229 What made you feel comfortable with that interaction? 322 00:17:03,229 --> 00:17:05,549 He goes, because I knew they were a Bitcoin. 323 00:17:06,239 --> 00:17:09,689 He goes, it, it, it created this, there was this curation process 324 00:17:09,689 --> 00:17:12,959 that happened where I had no problem picking up this dude and taking him 325 00:17:12,959 --> 00:17:14,489 to this event right when I met him. 326 00:17:14,889 --> 00:17:18,849 Because we've been able to interact within the b the Bitcoin ecosystem. 327 00:17:19,089 --> 00:17:21,999 Um, and so it's, it's very interesting seeing how these, these 328 00:17:21,999 --> 00:17:24,789 real life connections are, are playing out, that are, that are 329 00:17:24,789 --> 00:17:26,559 manifesting through a social network. 330 00:17:26,859 --> 00:17:28,719 I don't think we've ever seen anything like this before. 331 00:17:28,719 --> 00:17:31,879 I think that this is gonna be, uh, a use case that's talked about 332 00:17:32,169 --> 00:17:33,429 in textbooks for years to come. 333 00:17:33,429 --> 00:17:36,099 And I can say that because I didn't create the app, so I don't get 334 00:17:36,099 --> 00:17:37,359 to take any of the credit for it. 335 00:17:37,659 --> 00:17:40,869 But I think that, that, that business textbooks of the future will, will 336 00:17:40,874 --> 00:17:44,439 write about this is like how do you start a social network with a paywall? 337 00:17:44,679 --> 00:17:49,209 It could only happen in the Bitcoin ecosystem because if you try to start 338 00:17:49,209 --> 00:17:53,649 TikTok with a paywall, that demographic doesn't understand value for value, right? 339 00:17:53,649 --> 00:17:57,249 But Bitcoiners inherently understand value for value and, and why it's 340 00:17:57,249 --> 00:18:00,219 worth paying for something, um, to get something more out of it. 341 00:18:00,219 --> 00:18:03,519 So it's been very interesting to have a front row seat to this. 342 00:18:05,099 --> 00:18:05,429 Yeah. 343 00:18:05,429 --> 00:18:06,329 Fascinating. 344 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:12,089 It's, uh, valuable value is substituting attention for attention, 345 00:18:12,089 --> 00:18:15,029 I guess, or attention for ad revenue. 346 00:18:16,330 --> 00:18:16,540 yeah. 347 00:18:16,540 --> 00:18:17,290 And it's beautiful. 348 00:18:17,380 --> 00:18:18,760 Um, absolutely. 349 00:18:19,619 --> 00:18:20,699 yeah, that's one event. 350 00:18:20,879 --> 00:18:21,539 Uh, event. 351 00:18:21,539 --> 00:18:23,669 Was that the one in Miami or another event? 352 00:18:24,029 --> 00:18:24,249 So 353 00:18:24,249 --> 00:18:26,999 this was a, so this was one in Southern California. 354 00:18:26,999 --> 00:18:28,609 They do monthly Yeah. 355 00:18:28,959 --> 00:18:29,449 Meetups 356 00:18:29,549 --> 00:18:29,879 and stuff. 357 00:18:29,879 --> 00:18:30,059 Yeah. 358 00:18:30,299 --> 00:18:33,599 Yeah, because I attended some swan party in, in Miami. 359 00:18:33,599 --> 00:18:38,579 This, this, by the way, this is recorded between, uh, the Miami conference and the 360 00:18:38,579 --> 00:18:40,229 Prague conference, which is next week. 361 00:18:40,739 --> 00:18:45,809 So, uh, me and Luke will be in Prague and try to, try to do some stuff there, but I 362 00:18:45,809 --> 00:18:50,369 guess this episode will be released after Prague, so there's no use in chilling. 363 00:18:50,374 --> 00:18:51,149 That right Luke. 364 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:58,129 No, uh, we're actually really trying to build up a big, uh, a big backlog because 365 00:18:58,129 --> 00:19:00,969 we've got a busy summer, but, uh, yeah. 366 00:19:00,969 --> 00:19:01,369 Yeah, yeah. 367 00:19:01,429 --> 00:19:03,109 But, but Prague's gonna be really cool. 368 00:19:03,109 --> 00:19:06,859 I mean, yeah, Brian and, uh, and I think a lot of the American Bitcoiners 369 00:19:06,859 --> 00:19:09,769 in general, I, I think you should try and make it out to, to the 370 00:19:09,774 --> 00:19:10,970 European conferences if you can. 371 00:19:10,999 --> 00:19:12,649 It's, it's a different vibe, I think. 372 00:19:12,769 --> 00:19:14,959 Have you been out to any of the European events? 373 00:19:15,439 --> 00:19:15,649 Mm-hmm. 374 00:19:15,739 --> 00:19:18,559 No, I've actually never been to Europe before, so, sorry. 375 00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:20,419 I feel like kinda, uh, ashamed of that. 376 00:19:20,599 --> 00:19:22,219 You should grab a ticket to Honey Badger. 377 00:19:22,549 --> 00:19:24,949 Come see, that's a pure signal event. 378 00:19:25,549 --> 00:19:25,819 Really? 379 00:19:26,269 --> 00:19:28,699 Reg regains the beginning of September. 380 00:19:28,969 --> 00:19:29,660 You should look into that. 381 00:19:29,749 --> 00:19:32,149 Uh, it's one of our favorite conferences. 382 00:19:32,329 --> 00:19:34,759 We'll be there if not, if not our favorite conference. 383 00:19:34,849 --> 00:19:36,889 Uh, it's where we at first time. 384 00:19:36,894 --> 00:19:36,929 Yeah. 385 00:19:36,929 --> 00:19:37,639 It's where, yeah. 386 00:19:37,729 --> 00:19:41,689 And it's where sort of where my Bitcoin career quote. 387 00:19:42,974 --> 00:19:47,954 Took off, uh, I brought 50 bucks in my hand luggage, uh, in 2019 to Riga, 388 00:19:48,314 --> 00:19:49,424 and that's where it all started. 389 00:19:50,304 --> 00:19:53,179 Why do you think those European events are like so high signal? 390 00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:58,119 Um, I mean, you could argue that in the US that that, that that's maybe not the case. 391 00:19:58,299 --> 00:19:59,589 Uh, it depends on the event. 392 00:19:59,739 --> 00:20:01,089 Uh, um, but yeah, why 393 00:20:01,659 --> 00:20:07,896 I, I think the Amer American culture is much more, and I guess especially 394 00:20:07,896 --> 00:20:14,736 after 1971, I should add that, but it's, uh, a much more, uh, it re it 395 00:20:15,186 --> 00:20:17,556 revolves around advertisement a lot. 396 00:20:17,946 --> 00:20:21,516 Uh, and that's not the case in Europe, uh, to, to the same extent. 397 00:20:22,146 --> 00:20:27,441 So, so it's this, In a way, FII mindset where you need to move fast and break 398 00:20:27,441 --> 00:20:33,681 things and just push your products, uh, as much as you can and big Strolight 399 00:20:33,681 --> 00:20:35,541 and banners and stuff everywhere. 400 00:20:36,111 --> 00:20:39,591 And you need to make as much noise as possible to get people's attention. 401 00:20:39,651 --> 00:20:42,621 And Europe is a little different, I guess also the. 402 00:20:43,981 --> 00:20:48,211 In the us like Bitcoin Miami is the biggest conference and it's 403 00:20:48,481 --> 00:20:53,431 sort of also, uh, it claims to be a Bitcoin only conference, but it's 404 00:20:53,821 --> 00:20:57,991 really, uh, a Bitcoin and, uh, a couple of shit coins conference. 405 00:20:58,441 --> 00:21:03,661 Uh, it's very inclusive like that and, uh, that's all nice and 406 00:21:03,661 --> 00:21:10,081 friendly, but it keeps the noise louder in relative to to the signal. 407 00:21:10,241 --> 00:21:10,519 Yeah. 408 00:21:10,646 --> 00:21:14,601 and I think in, in, in Europe that the conferences are, More separate. 409 00:21:14,601 --> 00:21:19,071 So there are Bitcoin only conferences and then the crypto, blockchain, whatever, 410 00:21:19,521 --> 00:21:23,181 shift conferences, um, uh, on the side. 411 00:21:23,181 --> 00:21:28,971 So, so, uh, yeah, uh, maybe that's just me being ignorant 412 00:21:28,971 --> 00:21:31,221 about other American conferences. 413 00:21:31,226 --> 00:21:35,001 I don't know how many mixed coin conferences or if they're, I, I hear 414 00:21:35,331 --> 00:21:37,401 bit block boom is quite high signal. 415 00:21:37,401 --> 00:21:41,541 And, uh, also of course the, the Pacific Bitcoin that, that's higher 416 00:21:41,546 --> 00:21:46,251 in, in terms of Bitcoin or to shitcoin or ratio during the conference. 417 00:21:46,256 --> 00:21:46,431 Yeah. 418 00:21:46,821 --> 00:21:50,661 I mean, then again, Miami is great because the Miami Conference is great 419 00:21:50,666 --> 00:21:52,401 because of all the site events as well. 420 00:21:52,401 --> 00:21:52,491 Mm-hmm. 421 00:21:52,491 --> 00:21:57,351 It creates a, since it's so big, it creates this, these sub-communities 422 00:21:57,351 --> 00:21:59,421 around, around the, the conference. 423 00:21:59,426 --> 00:22:03,231 I remember when, when I landed in Miami, the first thing I did was I, yeah. 424 00:22:03,721 --> 00:22:07,891 I, I bumped into Andy Edstrom and then we waited for his luggage for a while, 425 00:22:07,891 --> 00:22:13,261 and I just took a cab straight to this, uh, kill idle rock venue where 426 00:22:13,261 --> 00:22:15,391 I was doing the Satoshi Roto thing. 427 00:22:15,391 --> 00:22:22,126 So I just gave my luggage to, to, and, uh, He said, Kurt, you need to go up on stage. 428 00:22:22,126 --> 00:22:25,366 And I, I went up on stage and grabbed the guitar or a bass or something 429 00:22:25,366 --> 00:22:26,416 and played a couple of songs. 430 00:22:26,986 --> 00:22:27,976 And, uh, yeah. 431 00:22:27,976 --> 00:22:30,916 When I finished playing a couple of songs, I went out on the street 432 00:22:30,921 --> 00:22:33,976 again and there was my luggage under a table on the streets. 433 00:22:34,186 --> 00:22:36,316 So like, ah, we need to put this somewhere. 434 00:22:36,616 --> 00:22:37,156 Oh, yeah, yeah. 435 00:22:37,156 --> 00:22:37,876 Forgot about that. 436 00:22:37,956 --> 00:22:38,616 And, uh, yeah. 437 00:22:39,356 --> 00:22:42,196 But, but that, uh, event was pretty successful. 438 00:22:42,196 --> 00:22:46,246 So we're, uh, we thought more recent because I, I thought we played all the. 439 00:22:46,506 --> 00:22:49,896 The wrong notes and none of the good, the right notes, but, uh, people 440 00:22:49,896 --> 00:22:53,076 seem to have enjoyed it anyway, so we're doing it again in Prague now. 441 00:22:53,526 --> 00:22:54,026 Oh, that's cool. 442 00:22:54,096 --> 00:22:58,026 That's really, uh, yeah, so looking forward to that a lot, uh, with a 443 00:22:58,206 --> 00:23:00,936 slightly different band, but, uh, yeah. 444 00:23:01,986 --> 00:23:03,226 Well I was in the audience. 445 00:23:03,726 --> 00:23:04,657 I was in the audience for that. 446 00:23:04,746 --> 00:23:08,316 I, I, you know, that was, that was, that was such a boss move, man. 447 00:23:08,496 --> 00:23:10,086 It's like, uh, where, where's canoe? 448 00:23:10,146 --> 00:23:11,736 Oh, I heard his flight's just getting in. 449 00:23:11,736 --> 00:23:12,486 Okay, cool. 450 00:23:12,666 --> 00:23:17,171 And then, There's, and he just walks up on stage and starts just rock it out. 451 00:23:17,471 --> 00:23:19,271 It was like, this is how he says hi. 452 00:23:19,271 --> 00:23:22,331 He just comes up on stage and just starts killing it on the guitar. 453 00:23:22,331 --> 00:23:23,951 So, no man, that, that was really cool. 454 00:23:24,131 --> 00:23:24,311 No, 455 00:23:24,311 --> 00:23:28,061 but I'm, I'm living the meme and the dream at the same time here. 456 00:23:28,061 --> 00:23:33,281 I'm doing all the things that I wish I was doing when I was 26 and I'm 46 and I'm, 457 00:23:33,581 --> 00:23:35,291 it's actually happening and it's, yeah. 458 00:23:35,531 --> 00:23:40,061 To me it's just a dream come true to, to be able to go to Miami and go straight 459 00:23:40,061 --> 00:23:41,981 to rock venue and play a couple of riffs. 460 00:23:42,511 --> 00:23:43,161 That was so cool. 461 00:23:43,191 --> 00:23:43,481 Yeah. 462 00:23:44,681 --> 00:23:45,281 It's great. 463 00:23:46,147 --> 00:23:50,347 Uh, about your book, um, Bitcoin Evangelism, you say that it's 464 00:23:50,347 --> 00:23:52,692 for, um, It's for shift corners. 465 00:23:53,452 --> 00:23:53,742 Yeah. 466 00:23:54,802 --> 00:23:57,102 Is that the, is that the target audience for it? 467 00:23:57,102 --> 00:23:57,942 Or like, so 468 00:23:58,572 --> 00:24:01,842 Brian, that they uses a different word than you to refer to? 469 00:24:04,512 --> 00:24:05,532 I'm not ashamed of that. 470 00:24:05,537 --> 00:24:06,762 I'm gonna call it shift corners. 471 00:24:06,767 --> 00:24:07,242 Yeah, yeah. 472 00:24:07,242 --> 00:24:09,073 You, you call that, that's, I, I have no problem. 473 00:24:09,282 --> 00:24:10,332 I just don't like the cuss. 474 00:24:10,332 --> 00:24:11,142 I don't know what it is. 475 00:24:11,142 --> 00:24:13,272 I just, I just, I'm not, I'm not a swearer, which just 476 00:24:13,272 --> 00:24:14,322 was, was raised that way. 477 00:24:14,382 --> 00:24:19,572 Um, so I just say all coin, but I, I used it in select, uh, in select occasions. 478 00:24:19,577 --> 00:24:20,858 But, Anyways. 479 00:24:20,858 --> 00:24:24,548 Yeah, I mean, so the, the whole concept of evangelism, it, it 480 00:24:24,578 --> 00:24:26,648 hearkens back to Christian evangelism. 481 00:24:26,648 --> 00:24:30,938 So it was like Christian evangelism, whether you find merit in that or not. 482 00:24:31,008 --> 00:24:34,898 It, it was one of the most successful, successful movements of all time. 483 00:24:34,898 --> 00:24:37,718 And it was, it was because they had a really good formulated message 484 00:24:37,718 --> 00:24:38,908 for two groups of people, right? 485 00:24:38,908 --> 00:24:41,618 There was the atheist and then there was the pagan. 486 00:24:41,678 --> 00:24:44,318 So there was the person that didn't believe, and then there was the person 487 00:24:44,318 --> 00:24:47,888 that believed in a higher power or deity, but they believed in, you know, some 488 00:24:47,888 --> 00:24:50,588 variation of, of God or Gods or whatever. 489 00:24:50,918 --> 00:24:53,558 And it's like, that's kind of what we have here in the, in the bitcoin space. 490 00:24:53,558 --> 00:24:55,478 We have the, we have the no coin or we have the skeptic. 491 00:24:55,778 --> 00:24:58,228 And so there, there needs to be a, an argument formulated for them. 492 00:24:58,838 --> 00:25:02,738 And then we have the altcoin pagans, uh, that, that believe in, you know, 493 00:25:02,738 --> 00:25:06,248 they believe in blockchain, but they believe in some variation or they 494 00:25:06,248 --> 00:25:09,278 believe that, you know, uh, you know, decentralization doesn't matter, 495 00:25:09,278 --> 00:25:12,788 but what we really need is speed and scalability and those sorts of things. 496 00:25:12,788 --> 00:25:17,665 So being able to speak to those two types of people, I think is, is powerful. 497 00:25:17,665 --> 00:25:22,465 And I think that, If we want the Bitcoin community, maybe the lowest hanging 498 00:25:22,465 --> 00:25:27,715 fruit for bringing Bitcoiners or, or, or increasing the amount of Bitcoiners in the 499 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:33,085 world is just orange pilling the crypto community, uh, because they're people 500 00:25:33,090 --> 00:25:38,035 that, that are fascinated by, uh, maybe a change in, in, you know, a paradigm 501 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,195 shift in terms of money or value transfer. 502 00:25:40,495 --> 00:25:42,805 Um, some of these people are just in it to get rich quick. 503 00:25:42,805 --> 00:25:46,585 And so if you, if that's all they care about, then, then yeah, I guess 504 00:25:46,585 --> 00:25:49,825 the, the merits of Bitcoin aren't necessarily going to appeal to them. 505 00:25:50,125 --> 00:25:54,895 Um, because w yeah, I don't, we don't take much of approach of, of talking about this 506 00:25:54,895 --> 00:25:56,115 is why Bitcoin's gonna go to the moon. 507 00:25:56,575 --> 00:25:58,945 Um, and so maybe that's, that's the only thing that they're on, 508 00:25:59,095 --> 00:26:00,265 you know, crypto Twitter for. 509 00:26:00,475 --> 00:26:04,405 But if they do care about a, a fundamental change in the way that 510 00:26:04,405 --> 00:26:07,945 value is transferred, um, I've talked to plenty of friends of mine. 511 00:26:08,350 --> 00:26:11,380 That are really into Solana because they really are intrigued by 512 00:26:11,380 --> 00:26:13,750 the, by, by the movement of defi. 513 00:26:14,147 --> 00:26:16,997 all right, well, let's, let's break that down and, and, and fully 514 00:26:16,997 --> 00:26:18,527 understand what, what that means. 515 00:26:18,527 --> 00:26:21,497 And then most of the guys that I know that are on Solana, they 516 00:26:21,497 --> 00:26:25,147 don't understand that it's been 51% attacked multiple, multiple times. 517 00:26:25,167 --> 00:26:28,667 And so they, they don't realize how, how vulnerable their, 518 00:26:28,667 --> 00:26:30,137 their money or their funds are. 519 00:26:30,407 --> 00:26:33,527 And so just walking through that process is really important. 520 00:26:33,527 --> 00:26:37,157 And then even sharing some of my experiences from when I was the, the, 521 00:26:37,157 --> 00:26:40,097 the marketing guy for a blockchain project, like I was saying earlier, 522 00:26:40,337 --> 00:26:42,947 there's some experiences in there that were pretty eye-opening. 523 00:26:42,952 --> 00:26:43,507 I mean, so. 524 00:26:44,987 --> 00:26:48,257 Kind of like how I, I'm in my role in marketing right now for orange pill app. 525 00:26:48,257 --> 00:26:51,347 I was, I was in that similar role for this, this blockchain 526 00:26:51,347 --> 00:26:52,457 project called Athenian. 527 00:26:52,517 --> 00:26:55,247 And it was a education decentralizing education, right? 528 00:26:55,247 --> 00:26:57,497 Like that's what blockchain, yeah, blockchain projects. 529 00:26:57,737 --> 00:27:01,487 You take something, take lemonade stands and we're gonna decentralize lemonade 530 00:27:01,487 --> 00:27:03,707 stands or whatever, whatever, X, Y, Z. 531 00:27:03,712 --> 00:27:05,687 So that, that was kind of our mission at the time. 532 00:27:05,687 --> 00:27:05,897 Right. 533 00:27:06,347 --> 00:27:11,717 Well, you can imagine every day that I would wake up, I would have 10 dms 534 00:27:11,717 --> 00:27:16,157 in my inbox from another blockchain project saying, Hey, we're x, y, Z coin. 535 00:27:16,337 --> 00:27:20,207 Let's announce a partnership with you guys, and then we'll, we'll 536 00:27:20,207 --> 00:27:23,957 pump it and let's, I mean, they were literally just messages about pumping 537 00:27:23,957 --> 00:27:27,167 and dumping and, and scamming their, scamming their groups of people. 538 00:27:27,167 --> 00:27:29,267 So I think it's really important for, for. 539 00:27:29,687 --> 00:27:31,997 People that understand it when they're buying into these projects, 540 00:27:32,417 --> 00:27:36,317 the, the, the people that you're buying these coins from are actively 541 00:27:36,317 --> 00:27:38,597 pursuing a scam of your money. 542 00:27:38,597 --> 00:27:41,327 They're lit, they're actively trying to siphon off your money. 543 00:27:41,332 --> 00:27:44,117 And I think that most people don't understand it, that, that humans 544 00:27:44,122 --> 00:27:45,107 would do that to one another. 545 00:27:45,767 --> 00:27:46,427 It's crazy. 546 00:27:46,427 --> 00:27:48,807 To us it's, it, it's, it's obvious, right? 547 00:27:48,827 --> 00:27:52,307 We, we know that there's scammers out there, but most people think that the 548 00:27:52,307 --> 00:27:56,537 blockchain spaces like this altruistic playground of, of people being, you know, 549 00:27:56,542 --> 00:28:00,347 singing, you know, sunshine and rainbows and lollipops and all that kind of stuff. 550 00:28:00,587 --> 00:28:03,377 And so the naivety in that space is pretty high. 551 00:28:03,377 --> 00:28:06,677 And so just even sharing some of those stories about overt 552 00:28:06,677 --> 00:28:08,477 scams is, is really powerful. 553 00:28:08,477 --> 00:28:12,587 But one of the most eye-opening things that I saw, um, after I'd been asked 554 00:28:13,187 --> 00:28:16,667 a thousand times to try and pump and dump our coin, which we never did, 555 00:28:16,757 --> 00:28:18,137 we, we never did on our side of it. 556 00:28:18,137 --> 00:28:21,367 We actually had people that, that weren't, weren't of that mindset. 557 00:28:23,012 --> 00:28:27,182 I actually went to one of the, the exchanges that we had our coin listed on, 558 00:28:27,182 --> 00:28:31,412 it was one of those small exchanges, c pay tax or one, one of the, one of the, 559 00:28:31,417 --> 00:28:35,282 the, the, the exchanges, that's probably blown up by now, but I, it was, it was 560 00:28:35,492 --> 00:28:39,482 late one night and there was about $200 worth of our coin on this exchange. 561 00:28:39,482 --> 00:28:44,282 We had the, our coin was, uh, a e m was the name of the coin, and I 562 00:28:44,282 --> 00:28:46,322 bought all $200 worth of the coin. 563 00:28:46,322 --> 00:28:51,032 I said, I wonder what happens if I buy up all the liquidity of this coin and 564 00:28:51,032 --> 00:28:53,342 now there's no liquidity on the market. 565 00:28:53,987 --> 00:28:56,327 What happened was I bought the $200 worth of coin. 566 00:28:56,447 --> 00:28:58,127 They were all 2 cents per coin. 567 00:28:58,577 --> 00:29:01,967 And then what I did was I sold the next coin to myself. 568 00:29:01,967 --> 00:29:04,157 So Wash traded it to myself. 569 00:29:04,157 --> 00:29:07,277 I didn't even have to log in and, and go into a different account. 570 00:29:07,277 --> 00:29:10,997 I was able to create a sell order and then buy it through my exact 571 00:29:10,997 --> 00:29:15,167 same account, and I, I sold the next coin to myself for a dollar. 572 00:29:15,347 --> 00:29:19,967 So I 50 x the price of the coin in one cell by selling it to myself. 573 00:29:20,387 --> 00:29:21,797 And I said, okay, that's interesting. 574 00:29:21,797 --> 00:29:24,617 If 50 x the, the, the price on this one exchange, right? 575 00:29:24,647 --> 00:29:25,277 That was it. 576 00:29:25,447 --> 00:29:26,087 No, no, no. 577 00:29:26,177 --> 00:29:27,257 I went to Coin Gecko. 578 00:29:27,257 --> 00:29:30,618 I went to Coin Market Cap, and our coin went from number 1300 579 00:29:30,623 --> 00:29:35,597 in the world to number 400 in the world in one cell for $1. 580 00:29:35,597 --> 00:29:37,877 Our market cap increased by 5 million. 581 00:29:38,447 --> 00:29:39,857 According to these websites. 582 00:29:39,857 --> 00:29:42,107 It aggregated across the entire internet. 583 00:29:42,437 --> 00:29:46,697 And it told everybody that the new price of this coin is now $1, because 584 00:29:46,697 --> 00:29:49,107 I sold one coin to myself for $1. 585 00:29:49,287 --> 00:29:52,307 So the, the market increased by $5 million. 586 00:29:52,497 --> 00:29:54,507 By the sale, and I know this because I saw it. 587 00:29:54,507 --> 00:29:55,137 It was me. 588 00:29:55,137 --> 00:29:55,947 I did it myself. 589 00:29:56,217 --> 00:30:00,237 The market increased by 5 million because of the sale of a $1 coin. 590 00:30:00,657 --> 00:30:01,467 I sold it back. 591 00:30:01,472 --> 00:30:03,327 I equ, I created equilibrium in the market. 592 00:30:03,327 --> 00:30:05,967 I just did that as an experiment and I put it back to where it was. 593 00:30:06,327 --> 00:30:10,317 The next day I resigned and I focused on Bitcoin only education. 594 00:30:10,317 --> 00:30:12,657 I said, this is way too, I had no idea. 595 00:30:12,657 --> 00:30:14,457 I knew that there there might be problems in the market. 596 00:30:14,757 --> 00:30:19,077 I had no idea it was that fickle of a market that 5 million could 597 00:30:19,077 --> 00:30:21,057 move off of a $1 transaction. 598 00:30:22,067 --> 00:30:26,807 Yeah, but this is why, uh, Bitcoin dominance index is such a bullshit metric 599 00:30:27,317 --> 00:30:31,337 because all of the other ones, like the way they calculate the market cap is ju 600 00:30:31,367 --> 00:30:35,687 just how you, you described it like they issue, they, they sell one coin for a 601 00:30:35,692 --> 00:30:39,257 dollar and then they issue a billion coins and all of a sudden you have a billion 602 00:30:39,257 --> 00:30:41,597 dollar market cap and it's all bullshit. 603 00:30:41,657 --> 00:30:45,017 It's, it's not because they actually sold a billion dollars at all. 604 00:30:45,077 --> 00:30:47,207 They sold $1 and Yeah. 605 00:30:47,317 --> 00:30:52,967 And, and, uh, more often than not to themselves in, in one way or or another. 606 00:30:52,972 --> 00:30:53,097 Yeah. 607 00:30:53,327 --> 00:30:53,387 Yeah. 608 00:30:53,387 --> 00:30:54,887 And so, so we, yeah. 609 00:30:54,887 --> 00:30:59,627 I, I, I get that you've been working with a lot of sincere people in the Alcon 610 00:30:59,627 --> 00:31:03,977 space and I think, I think that a, a huge chunk of the people working with. 611 00:31:04,472 --> 00:31:07,622 Uh, alt coins, for lack of a better word, or there is a better 612 00:31:07,622 --> 00:31:09,272 word, but anyway, uh, you can say 613 00:31:09,272 --> 00:31:09,362 it. 614 00:31:09,362 --> 00:31:11,072 I'm not offend, I'm not offended by hearing 615 00:31:11,072 --> 00:31:11,192 it. 616 00:31:11,222 --> 00:31:13,202 No, but I, I don't wanna offend them. 617 00:31:13,502 --> 00:31:19,232 It's that, uh, it's that there's always an asshole on top, for lack of a better word. 618 00:31:19,622 --> 00:31:23,432 Uh, uh, with all of these projects, there's always someone who knows 619 00:31:23,432 --> 00:31:28,442 what's going on and that person, because they, they, they must have, 620 00:31:28,832 --> 00:31:34,682 you know, at some point, stumbled upon Bitcoin to be in the alt coin space, 621 00:31:34,952 --> 00:31:37,022 quote unquote altcoin space at all. 622 00:31:37,052 --> 00:31:38,522 You need to know about Bitcoin. 623 00:31:38,582 --> 00:31:41,912 Like you need to, you need to at least have heard of Bitcoin, and if 624 00:31:41,912 --> 00:31:46,172 you've done the tiniest amount of research, you realize that there can 625 00:31:46,172 --> 00:31:50,008 be only, there can be only one, that doesn't really have anyone on top. 626 00:31:50,068 --> 00:31:53,158 And furthermore, the decentralizations, uh, part. 627 00:31:54,013 --> 00:31:58,243 As you say, they want to decentral, decentralized shoes and, and, uh, you 628 00:31:58,243 --> 00:32:00,733 know, hairdresser, education and whatever. 629 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,770 decentralization in Bitcoin is an unfortunate means to a 630 00:32:05,770 --> 00:32:07,510 greater end and nothing more. 631 00:32:07,930 --> 00:32:12,490 The only it, it is unfortunate that we need decentralization because 632 00:32:12,490 --> 00:32:16,360 the only reason we do is because we can't trust one another with 633 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,220 money, with or with a money printer. 634 00:32:18,340 --> 00:32:19,840 It has never worked in history. 635 00:32:20,290 --> 00:32:25,312 The, the, the guy with the money printer, Can never assist the 636 00:32:25,312 --> 00:32:27,052 temptation to press the copy button. 637 00:32:28,162 --> 00:32:33,082 That is the problem with all, with all money, uh, throughout history and so, so, 638 00:32:33,142 --> 00:32:35,662 or with all currencies throughout history. 639 00:32:36,112 --> 00:32:39,472 So that's the problem we're trying to solve, uh, through, 640 00:32:39,922 --> 00:32:41,872 uh, by using decentralization. 641 00:32:42,082 --> 00:32:46,312 But what we want, what we want to get to is sound money that 642 00:32:46,402 --> 00:32:49,912 is censorship resistant and no, no one can do anything about. 643 00:32:50,332 --> 00:32:54,022 And no one can take away from you by force very easily because they 644 00:32:54,022 --> 00:32:55,342 cannot know how much you have. 645 00:32:55,882 --> 00:32:58,372 And that is the greater end. 646 00:32:58,612 --> 00:33:00,862 And it has nothing to do with decentralization. 647 00:33:00,892 --> 00:33:06,832 It has everything to do with markets and, uh, meritocracy and, uh, you know, 648 00:33:06,892 --> 00:33:09,952 fairness, truth, all of this stuff. 649 00:33:10,447 --> 00:33:14,767 So, uh, yeah, we had, this was in our conversation with Alexander Bar as well, 650 00:33:14,827 --> 00:33:21,367 uh, Luke, how, how, uh, Bitcoin, because speaking of evangelism, excuse me for 651 00:33:21,637 --> 00:33:25,837 going on a little ranter, Brian, but, but I, I get some, some nice ideas here. 652 00:33:25,867 --> 00:33:32,677 Like the, the, uh, some people view Bitcoin as a religion and uh, that's 653 00:33:32,677 --> 00:33:36,457 all fine and some people view it as a cult and that's also fine. 654 00:33:36,967 --> 00:33:39,247 I find it more, uh, to be. 655 00:33:39,997 --> 00:33:43,927 That what we're living in now is the cult because what we're living 656 00:33:43,927 --> 00:33:48,967 in now requires belief and Bitcoin doesn't really require belief. 657 00:33:48,997 --> 00:33:56,857 It's very rigid and it's very, it's all about the logos, uh, and uh, the logos. 658 00:33:57,157 --> 00:34:01,837 Uh, being that it's all once and zeros and it's all communication and 659 00:34:01,837 --> 00:34:05,737 you can look up every step of it, and you don't have to trust anyone 660 00:34:05,737 --> 00:34:07,807 really, if, if you do your homework. 661 00:34:08,532 --> 00:34:12,312 Uh, in all these little sub caverns of the rabbit hole. 662 00:34:12,612 --> 00:34:16,302 So, so in that sense, I, I view it as financial atheism, 663 00:34:16,302 --> 00:34:17,622 as I wrote in my first book. 664 00:34:17,652 --> 00:34:21,372 Like You, uh, that, that's another angle on this, that we're, 665 00:34:21,372 --> 00:34:24,252 we're the ones breaking out of a cult, not the ones in a cult. 666 00:34:24,912 --> 00:34:28,932 Uh, however, that's sort of hard to promote to when 99% of the 667 00:34:28,932 --> 00:34:30,642 population is still in the cult. 668 00:34:30,762 --> 00:34:34,212 So it's, maybe it's better to, to take the other angle, 669 00:34:34,632 --> 00:34:36,552 uh, split feelings about that. 670 00:34:37,002 --> 00:34:43,032 But in that sense, I feel that Bitcoin is using this ultimate logos to create the, 671 00:34:43,032 --> 00:34:47,082 the pathos and the mythos, which is the, the other two aspects of the human psyche. 672 00:34:47,082 --> 00:34:53,322 So we get, we get to morality and spirituality through having perfect logic. 673 00:34:54,552 --> 00:34:56,892 So we are using logic to create the other two. 674 00:34:57,582 --> 00:35:01,582 And that's what I find so, So wonderful about it. 675 00:35:01,792 --> 00:35:05,932 One of the aspects because it creates, uh, something outta 676 00:35:05,932 --> 00:35:07,672 nothing, for lack of a better phrase. 677 00:35:08,092 --> 00:35:15,142 Uh, it creates, uh, when you have truth in the bass slay of, of just, 678 00:35:15,232 --> 00:35:18,402 just like your story with a guy that picked up a new found friend 679 00:35:18,682 --> 00:35:20,572 via orange biap to this one party. 680 00:35:21,112 --> 00:35:26,182 Uh, when you have truth in the base layer of who we are, uh, then it's 681 00:35:26,182 --> 00:35:30,322 much easier to, to trust other people because, you know, if they're a true 682 00:35:30,532 --> 00:35:32,122 Bitcoin, they have good intentions. 683 00:35:32,122 --> 00:35:34,192 They don't have this shitty shit coin intentions. 684 00:35:34,762 --> 00:35:40,972 So, so, so that's, that's what I find the, the duality of that, having 685 00:35:40,972 --> 00:35:46,432 this, uh, Absolute truth in the base layer en enable, or that you can 686 00:35:46,432 --> 00:35:51,502 verify every step of the base layer that this adversarial thinking in the 687 00:35:51,502 --> 00:35:55,942 base layer that enables this truth layer, which enables trust between 688 00:35:55,942 --> 00:35:58,552 people on the other side of the coin. 689 00:35:58,662 --> 00:35:59,082 Mm-hmm. 690 00:35:59,512 --> 00:35:59,802 Yeah. 691 00:36:00,112 --> 00:36:03,052 Well, I mean in, in, in, in praxeology you talk a lot about 692 00:36:03,052 --> 00:36:06,232 axioms and, and things that we can, that, that are apparent, right? 693 00:36:06,232 --> 00:36:08,062 That, that can lead to human action. 694 00:36:08,422 --> 00:36:13,882 Um, I was thinking about this on the plane ride home is, is how there's a 695 00:36:13,882 --> 00:36:16,072 tremendous amount of centralization. 696 00:36:16,072 --> 00:36:18,292 When I was sitting on the plane, I'm like, there's a tremendous amount 697 00:36:18,292 --> 00:36:20,182 of centralization in this plane. 698 00:36:20,422 --> 00:36:21,772 There's a hundred of us on the plane. 699 00:36:22,012 --> 00:36:23,332 There's two pilots in the front. 700 00:36:23,662 --> 00:36:27,442 Why, why do I actually trust this centralization right here? 701 00:36:27,447 --> 00:36:30,982 Because I was just at a conference where all we talked about was decentralization. 702 00:36:31,222 --> 00:36:35,572 Why does this work in this case, uh, that that a hundred people are trusting too? 703 00:36:35,872 --> 00:36:38,212 It's because there's aligned incentives, right? 704 00:36:38,332 --> 00:36:42,652 And so my, my human action, I, I, I can get on a plane and be comfortable 705 00:36:42,682 --> 00:36:46,942 in that interaction because I, I believe that those pilots want to get 706 00:36:46,942 --> 00:36:50,092 home to their families in the same way that I want to get home to my family. 707 00:36:50,302 --> 00:36:55,432 But as soon as incentives become disaligned, then, then, 708 00:36:55,492 --> 00:36:58,582 then centralization and, and power no longer works, right? 709 00:36:58,582 --> 00:37:02,572 And so across an economy, across, especially the globe, 710 00:37:02,812 --> 00:37:03,773 we can't, we can't really. 711 00:37:04,822 --> 00:37:08,242 We, we've never really had a good way to align incentives and, you know, 712 00:37:08,272 --> 00:37:12,832 until something like Bitcoin where we can verify every, every process, 713 00:37:12,832 --> 00:37:15,682 every step of the transaction, we don't have to trust, we can verify. 714 00:37:15,832 --> 00:37:19,582 So I no longer have to trust that the pilot wants to get home to his family. 715 00:37:19,642 --> 00:37:22,672 I, I no longer have to trust that the central banker has 716 00:37:22,672 --> 00:37:23,602 my best interest in mind. 717 00:37:24,082 --> 00:37:29,122 I can just verify that, that the, that the greedy minor that's trying to mine Bitcoin 718 00:37:29,122 --> 00:37:30,652 because he wants to enrich himself. 719 00:37:30,892 --> 00:37:32,002 I can trust in the fact that. 720 00:37:32,827 --> 00:37:37,327 While he's enriching himself by mining, he's securing my Bitcoin and therefore 721 00:37:37,327 --> 00:37:38,947 I'm benefiting from that interaction. 722 00:37:39,217 --> 00:37:44,230 Um, the, the incentives become aligned, through, through self-motivation in 723 00:37:44,230 --> 00:37:49,630 the same way that the pilot, his, his self-motivation to get home, it aligns 724 00:37:49,630 --> 00:37:50,921 with my self-motivation to get home. 725 00:37:51,220 --> 00:37:54,400 And so I think that that Bitcoin's found a way, and that's probably, that's 726 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,460 part of the revolution is that it, it was the first time that that humanity 727 00:37:57,465 --> 00:38:01,930 found a way for the monetary system to align incentives with people that have. 728 00:38:02,130 --> 00:38:04,680 Completely different motivations. 729 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,340 Um, and so that's, that's, yeah, I, I think that that's fascinating. 730 00:38:08,340 --> 00:38:12,300 The, the, in terms of how you're talking about the logos leading to the Yeah. 731 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:12,990 Spiritual 732 00:38:12,990 --> 00:38:13,260 side. 733 00:38:13,470 --> 00:38:17,430 It, it's, it's sort of what, what money is supposed to do, but has 734 00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:20,130 never been able to do because money has always been corrupted. 735 00:38:20,130 --> 00:38:24,060 So like with the, with the airplane and the airline and the airport and 736 00:38:24,065 --> 00:38:28,873 everyone involved, the thing we trust is the division of labor because we d 737 00:38:28,933 --> 00:38:30,583 we trust the pilots drive the plane. 738 00:38:30,583 --> 00:38:33,703 We trust the c e o of the airline company to run the company, and 739 00:38:33,703 --> 00:38:38,313 we trust the, the barista in the airport to make our coffee and so on. 740 00:38:38,653 --> 00:38:39,583 And that's beautiful. 741 00:38:39,583 --> 00:38:40,873 It's the division of labor. 742 00:38:41,353 --> 00:38:47,473 Uh, however, if that, if that mechanism, uh, gets distorted by 743 00:38:47,503 --> 00:38:51,853 crappy money and doesn't function anymore, then, then we have to. 744 00:38:52,213 --> 00:38:57,823 Resort to, to, uh, to trust the pilot not wanting to kill himself. 745 00:38:57,913 --> 00:39:03,883 Like then again, the pilot has to trust the, the, the fuel guy to 746 00:39:03,883 --> 00:39:09,073 have, uh, you know, top really have topped up the plane so that we can 747 00:39:09,078 --> 00:39:10,364 get to our destinations and stuff. 748 00:39:10,713 --> 00:39:15,673 But, but the, uh, the more fiat gets corrupted, the, the harder it will 749 00:39:15,673 --> 00:39:20,473 become to trust the pilot to do, uh, to do his job for, for the proper reasons 750 00:39:20,743 --> 00:39:21,973 and the more we have to trust him. 751 00:39:22,988 --> 00:39:26,348 To just not crash the plane because he has an incentive to survive. 752 00:39:26,798 --> 00:39:26,998 Yeah. 753 00:39:27,218 --> 00:39:30,278 That's, that's the doom and gloom, uh, the doom and gloom motive 754 00:39:30,488 --> 00:39:32,168 versus the, uh, the market motive. 755 00:39:32,173 --> 00:39:34,718 I, I like, I like yours, yours is a bit more optimistic. 756 00:39:36,428 --> 00:39:39,068 The division of labor is much more compelling than the, 757 00:39:39,128 --> 00:39:40,058 I just don't want to die. 758 00:39:40,508 --> 00:39:41,438 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 759 00:39:42,218 --> 00:39:47,768 But, uh, Fiat makes us believe in a way that, that everyone is just in 760 00:39:47,768 --> 00:39:52,658 it for the, I, I just don't wanna die thing and are willing to do whatever 761 00:39:52,658 --> 00:39:57,578 for money and on a Bitcoin standard, that, that is not necessary anymore. 762 00:39:58,308 --> 00:40:02,348 Because once you're above a certain threshold, nobody knows what 763 00:40:02,348 --> 00:40:03,728 that threshold is, by the way. 764 00:40:03,908 --> 00:40:08,528 But you can, you can be sure that if you just don't spend it all, uh, 765 00:40:08,528 --> 00:40:11,498 it will provide you with all the security you need for the future. 766 00:40:12,038 --> 00:40:16,298 Making, making each human being a much calmer, a much more, you 767 00:40:16,298 --> 00:40:20,168 know, at ease person, that, that is just better to interact with. 768 00:40:20,598 --> 00:40:20,798 Mm. 769 00:40:21,608 --> 00:40:22,148 As we know. 770 00:40:23,193 --> 00:40:24,273 Yeah, I agree. 771 00:40:25,673 --> 00:40:27,803 ? Today's show is brought to you by our sponsors. 772 00:40:28,133 --> 00:40:30,443 First up, orange pill app Stack. 773 00:40:30,443 --> 00:40:34,553 Friends who stack SATs meet like-minded Bitcoiners near you and help speed up 774 00:40:34,553 --> 00:40:36,893 hyperbitcoinization with orange pill app. 775 00:40:37,823 --> 00:40:40,823 Bitcoin isn't an online only phenomenon, and orange pill app helps 776 00:40:40,828 --> 00:40:44,933 facilitate the social layer connecting Bitcoiners in their local area. 777 00:40:45,443 --> 00:40:48,443 It maintains your privacy through the whole process, and since you 778 00:40:48,448 --> 00:40:51,713 have to pay to access the app, you know that everyone there cares 779 00:40:51,713 --> 00:40:53,963 about Bitcoin and is high signal. 780 00:40:54,353 --> 00:40:56,003 A great new feature is events. 781 00:40:56,453 --> 00:41:00,143 You can create events and meetups right from the orange pill app and help build 782 00:41:00,143 --> 00:41:04,373 your local community while maintaining the Bitcoin only Signal orange pill app is 783 00:41:04,378 --> 00:41:07,493 available on iOS and Android download now. 784 00:41:08,363 --> 00:41:13,583 Next up, wasabi Wallet, an open source, no non-custodial desktop wallet that is 785 00:41:13,613 --> 00:41:16,373 trustless, easy to use and affordable. 786 00:41:16,778 --> 00:41:19,598 It has coin joint built in to facilitate your privacy. 787 00:41:20,198 --> 00:41:23,798 Every Bitcoin transaction leaves a clear Footprint, but with wasabi, you can 788 00:41:23,798 --> 00:41:27,488 make sure that others can't track your steps and threaten your sovereignty. 789 00:41:27,728 --> 00:41:29,318 Just send your coins to Wasabi. 790 00:41:29,318 --> 00:41:32,648 Wallet wait, and your coins will be private on the other end. 791 00:41:32,948 --> 00:41:36,278 It's open source, trustless by design and non-custodial. 792 00:41:36,488 --> 00:41:38,438 You have full control over your keys. 793 00:41:38,798 --> 00:41:41,588 Check it out now@wasabiwallet.io. 794 00:41:42,012 --> 00:41:42,312 Brian, I'd 795 00:41:42,317 --> 00:41:44,592 like to hear a little bit more about, since you have a background 796 00:41:44,592 --> 00:41:48,912 in, in marketing, uh, I guess I've kind of got two questions. 797 00:41:48,912 --> 00:41:50,562 I'll start with, I'll start with the first one. 798 00:41:50,562 --> 00:41:53,322 So how did you get into marketing? 799 00:41:53,322 --> 00:41:56,862 How did that turn into the, the role that you, you tend to have these 800 00:41:56,862 --> 00:41:57,132 days? 801 00:41:57,972 --> 00:42:01,182 Um, well, I, uh, in college, I, I didn't study marketing. 802 00:42:01,182 --> 00:42:05,442 I, I studied something that, uh, commute would call a fake 803 00:42:05,447 --> 00:42:07,382 science of, I studied psychology. 804 00:42:08,022 --> 00:42:14,052 I having, I wouldn't say that having studied psychology and, and gotten a 805 00:42:14,052 --> 00:42:18,192 degree in, in human behavioral science, I think that that, uh, yeah, it's, it is one 806 00:42:18,197 --> 00:42:22,127 of those things where, Perhaps I would've done something different in hindsight, 807 00:42:22,187 --> 00:42:24,017 uh, if, if I'd known the conclusion of it. 808 00:42:24,017 --> 00:42:28,367 But it did, uh, it did grant some, some, or it did lend itself 809 00:42:28,372 --> 00:42:30,137 to the, the field of marketing. 810 00:42:30,137 --> 00:42:32,777 So after college, I actually went in and started, uh, my 811 00:42:32,777 --> 00:42:34,067 wife and I started a business. 812 00:42:34,127 --> 00:42:36,858 Um, we, we, we do, we've been running it for the last 14 years. 813 00:42:37,097 --> 00:42:37,767 We do a light therapy. 814 00:42:38,347 --> 00:42:40,877 Uh, we have a small chain of light therapy studio. 815 00:42:40,877 --> 00:42:43,727 So we do infrared, sauna, red light therapy. 816 00:42:43,727 --> 00:42:44,087 I don't know. 817 00:42:44,147 --> 00:42:45,767 These things are becoming popular now. 818 00:42:45,857 --> 00:42:48,467 Um, but when we started, they certainly weren't popular. 819 00:42:48,467 --> 00:42:52,007 We even do, uh, like vitamin d sunbeds, there's people that, 820 00:42:52,007 --> 00:42:54,917 believe it or not, even in Southern California, don't get sunshine. 821 00:42:54,917 --> 00:42:57,857 And so their doctors have them come in and, and get sunshine. 822 00:42:57,857 --> 00:43:04,457 So it was this, I think I really was able to sharpen my teeth a bit, um, in a field 823 00:43:04,457 --> 00:43:08,837 and starting a business that was kind of this holistic type of business where, 824 00:43:09,107 --> 00:43:11,597 uh, people were treating aches and pains. 825 00:43:11,787 --> 00:43:16,382 Um, People that were looking to get off their prescription meds and maybe treat 826 00:43:16,382 --> 00:43:18,842 their arthritis through infrared sauna. 827 00:43:19,082 --> 00:43:23,402 Um, how do you, when, when, when the paradigm of society is you have a pain 828 00:43:23,402 --> 00:43:28,382 and you take a pill, uh, it's really hard to unwind some of that thinking. 829 00:43:28,772 --> 00:43:31,083 And so here, here, instead of taking the pill, it's gonna make 830 00:43:31,232 --> 00:43:32,762 you feel good in about five minutes. 831 00:43:33,092 --> 00:43:35,972 Here, let's, let's do this therapy that's gonna take you a month to start 832 00:43:35,972 --> 00:43:39,812 feeling good and it's gonna take a month for you to, to kill your inflammation. 833 00:43:40,022 --> 00:43:43,082 But I promise you, in the end, you might not ever need that pill again. 834 00:43:43,082 --> 00:43:47,192 Cause we might, we might not cure, but we might treat the underlying cause of 835 00:43:47,192 --> 00:43:49,352 your problem and fix it in the long term. 836 00:43:49,352 --> 00:43:53,582 So from, from even when I was still in my fiat mindset when I was in, you know, 837 00:43:53,672 --> 00:43:58,592 pre Bitcoin, I was marketing a business that, that had low time preference. 838 00:43:58,862 --> 00:44:04,472 And so I've just been programmed with this idea that if something is true, 839 00:44:04,862 --> 00:44:08,852 Then we just continue to champion it and talk about its merits, because 840 00:44:08,852 --> 00:44:12,782 there will always be a portion of the population that's interested in that. 841 00:44:12,842 --> 00:44:15,152 People are drawn to truth. 842 00:44:15,572 --> 00:44:18,692 Um, there's people that are actively trying to suppress truth. 843 00:44:18,992 --> 00:44:21,842 But even just like in, in, in psychology, we know, we know all the 844 00:44:21,847 --> 00:44:26,222 time the things that we're trying to suppress are often the things that 845 00:44:26,222 --> 00:44:27,752 we're wrestling with the most, right? 846 00:44:27,752 --> 00:44:31,742 So our culture is in this state of suppressing truth, but I think it's 847 00:44:31,742 --> 00:44:34,712 because young people or the, the TikTok generation, they're trying 848 00:44:34,712 --> 00:44:38,792 to suppress truth so much because it weighs on them so heavily. 849 00:44:38,942 --> 00:44:43,142 So I think that in the end, marketing and championing these things, there, 850 00:44:43,142 --> 00:44:45,452 there's, there's, I don't think there's any secret sauce to this. 851 00:44:45,452 --> 00:44:48,662 It's, it's the same if we're promoting Bitcoin, it's the same if we're promoting 852 00:44:48,692 --> 00:44:52,652 holistic treatments of, uh, to, to, you know, to treat, you know, your 853 00:44:52,652 --> 00:44:54,542 whatever, your vitamin D deficiency. 854 00:44:54,782 --> 00:44:57,152 All of these things are kind of the same way, is. 855 00:44:57,577 --> 00:44:58,717 This stuff works. 856 00:44:58,987 --> 00:45:03,397 If you stay the course, if you're looking at a short-term fix, this isn't for you. 857 00:45:03,547 --> 00:45:06,967 But if you're looking for a long-term remedy, then this 858 00:45:06,967 --> 00:45:08,047 is the way you want to go. 859 00:45:08,227 --> 00:45:12,067 And so just being honest and tipping your cards, the, the greatest piece 860 00:45:12,067 --> 00:45:15,687 of, of business advice that I, I think I ever give to people is, don't 861 00:45:15,687 --> 00:45:18,037 hold your cards close to your vest. 862 00:45:18,277 --> 00:45:22,657 In business negotiations or whatever I've done in the past, when I just lay 863 00:45:22,657 --> 00:45:27,157 everything out and I tell somebody in a business negotiation what I want and what 864 00:45:27,157 --> 00:45:30,307 I need, and I ask them what do they want and what do they need, if we just lay 865 00:45:30,312 --> 00:45:34,287 the cards out on the table, I found that the best business negotiations happen. 866 00:45:34,587 --> 00:45:38,197 It, it's the, it's the most mutually beneficial exchange that we could 867 00:45:38,197 --> 00:45:42,607 possibly have by telling the other person what I need and them telling me what 868 00:45:42,612 --> 00:45:47,857 I, what, what they need, um, and being honest in the fact that if, if what I'm 869 00:45:48,007 --> 00:45:51,092 providing to them, Isn't a short-term fix. 870 00:45:51,092 --> 00:45:55,412 Isn't, isn't, Hey, this isn't gonna fix what you need right now, but if you, if 871 00:45:55,412 --> 00:45:57,542 you stick with me, we can get you there. 872 00:45:57,842 --> 00:46:03,062 Um, people love authenticity and so to me that's the most powerful form of 873 00:46:03,062 --> 00:46:04,922 marketing ever is, is being authentic. 874 00:46:05,132 --> 00:46:08,302 And I think that that's why it didn't work out for me being in the crypto space. 875 00:46:08,412 --> 00:46:12,542 That was just, it was a, it was a natural filtration process that the crypto space 876 00:46:12,542 --> 00:46:17,402 kicked me out because I didn't like my, my, my, my message wasn't received by 877 00:46:17,402 --> 00:46:19,112 taking a long-term approach to things. 878 00:46:19,382 --> 00:46:24,002 Um, and so I, that's why Bitcoin, the gravity of Bitcoin drew me back 879 00:46:24,007 --> 00:46:30,002 in was because I like long-term real, authentic truth and, uh, 880 00:46:30,512 --> 00:46:32,072 that's what brings me here today. 881 00:46:32,132 --> 00:46:32,312 Yeah. 882 00:46:33,902 --> 00:46:36,992 You know, you've, uh, uh, you said a lot of really good things, so 883 00:46:36,992 --> 00:46:41,102 I feel bad for, uh, for steering in this direction specifically. 884 00:46:41,102 --> 00:46:44,342 But you, you, uh, you, you do infrared sauna only. 885 00:46:45,347 --> 00:46:45,737 Yeah. 886 00:46:45,917 --> 00:46:46,097 Oh no. 887 00:46:46,157 --> 00:46:50,267 So we do, it's a, the three, three spectrum infrared. 888 00:46:50,267 --> 00:46:52,997 So I don't know, are you familiar with, it sounds like you know, your, in like 889 00:46:52,997 --> 00:46:54,497 a little bit about infrared stuff. 890 00:46:54,887 --> 00:46:55,157 Well, 891 00:46:55,367 --> 00:46:59,267 uh, I'm, I'm just saying I, I've, I've got a traditional sauna at 10 meters that way. 892 00:46:59,267 --> 00:47:01,637 And, uh, you know, the, the one where you pour the water 893 00:47:01,642 --> 00:47:02,687 on the stove and everything? 894 00:47:02,687 --> 00:47:02,747 Yeah. 895 00:47:02,927 --> 00:47:03,767 You don't do that one? 896 00:47:04,247 --> 00:47:05,507 We don't do the stone one. 897 00:47:05,517 --> 00:47:05,807 Okay. 898 00:47:05,827 --> 00:47:10,517 Um, we like it pretty much every gym that that's in my area in California, 899 00:47:10,517 --> 00:47:12,227 they, they do, they do the stone saunas. 900 00:47:12,227 --> 00:47:12,287 Yeah. 901 00:47:12,497 --> 00:47:15,347 And so we actually just have a, a lot more people that 902 00:47:15,347 --> 00:47:16,907 gravitate towards the infrared. 903 00:47:17,207 --> 00:47:18,857 Um, it tends to be a little bit quicker. 904 00:47:18,947 --> 00:47:22,277 Um, you start the infrared light penetrates your body a little quicker, 905 00:47:22,277 --> 00:47:26,582 so you, you tend to get a little, uh, uh, More bang for your buck in 906 00:47:26,582 --> 00:47:28,622 terms of a 15 or 30 minute treatment. 907 00:47:28,627 --> 00:47:28,712 Mm-hmm. 908 00:47:29,402 --> 00:47:32,402 Um, and, and there's some other effects that come along with infrared light, 909 00:47:32,462 --> 00:47:33,992 aside from just the heat benefits. 910 00:47:33,992 --> 00:47:37,982 So, um, now of course this is leading to people getting into cold punches 911 00:47:37,982 --> 00:47:39,512 and all this kind of stuff, so yeah, we 912 00:47:41,132 --> 00:47:43,593 sometime We'll, sounds very good. 913 00:47:44,212 --> 00:47:44,632 I'm sorry 914 00:47:44,872 --> 00:47:47,912 about this next question, Brian, but I can't help myself. 915 00:47:47,972 --> 00:47:51,002 Did they tell you about the placebo effect in psychology class? 916 00:47:53,447 --> 00:47:54,497 They Sure, they sure did. 917 00:47:54,497 --> 00:47:55,817 We, we learned about that a lot. 918 00:47:55,817 --> 00:47:55,997 Yeah. 919 00:47:56,557 --> 00:47:59,567 So you, you're, you're not a, you're not a holistic guy. 920 00:47:59,957 --> 00:48:01,337 You got, we got a fiat killer. 921 00:48:01,577 --> 00:48:02,837 Look, look, uh, 922 00:48:03,047 --> 00:48:04,817 the thing is, I'm skeptic to everything. 923 00:48:04,967 --> 00:48:07,397 So I, I don't believe in alternative medicine. 924 00:48:07,727 --> 00:48:10,377 And for the most part, I don't believe in traditional medicine either. 925 00:48:10,967 --> 00:48:14,507 So, because I think it's all, most of it is placebo. 926 00:48:15,257 --> 00:48:16,367 Fair enough, fair enough. 927 00:48:16,487 --> 00:48:16,727 And 928 00:48:16,727 --> 00:48:20,747 to be fair, the placebo effect works and the nocebo effect works. 929 00:48:20,747 --> 00:48:24,257 And the mind, the mind can do wonderful things for the body. 930 00:48:24,527 --> 00:48:26,857 Uh, that's what I, that's what I believe. 931 00:48:26,927 --> 00:48:31,667 Like, and, uh, if you set your mind to something, uh, that, that's way 932 00:48:31,667 --> 00:48:33,197 more powerful than people believe. 933 00:48:33,407 --> 00:48:37,067 Uh, so that's, that's my sort of holistic approach. 934 00:48:37,157 --> 00:48:38,027 And then the rest is 935 00:48:38,027 --> 00:48:38,777 skepticism. 936 00:48:39,302 --> 00:48:40,712 I mean that, who knows? 937 00:48:40,712 --> 00:48:44,312 I mean, yeah, may, maybe it's a placebo effect in order, but when you come 938 00:48:44,312 --> 00:48:47,822 out to Southern California for Pacific Bitcoin, I'm gonna get you feeling good. 939 00:48:47,822 --> 00:48:49,592 So whether it's your mind playing tricks on you. 940 00:48:49,592 --> 00:48:49,682 Yeah. 941 00:48:52,382 --> 00:48:52,742 Nice. 942 00:48:54,492 --> 00:48:54,712 I'm. 943 00:48:55,547 --> 00:48:58,217 Uh, infrared pill you look looking forward 944 00:48:58,427 --> 00:48:58,487 to. 945 00:48:58,487 --> 00:48:59,237 That's a lot. 946 00:48:59,237 --> 00:49:03,107 But I, I think Finland is a more natural environment for 947 00:49:03,107 --> 00:49:04,967 saunas than Southern California. 948 00:49:04,967 --> 00:49:05,417 For sure. 949 00:49:05,897 --> 00:49:06,407 You got it. 950 00:49:06,407 --> 00:49:07,487 We'll, we'll take that one. 951 00:49:08,127 --> 00:49:10,847 We'll, we'll come to California and see you there, but then you 952 00:49:10,847 --> 00:49:13,517 have to come to Finland and, uh, have a, have a nice proper finish 953 00:49:14,727 --> 00:49:15,077 sauna. 954 00:49:15,387 --> 00:49:15,677 Yeah. 955 00:49:16,137 --> 00:49:16,357 Yes. 956 00:49:17,057 --> 00:49:20,987 And in the finished sauna, you also have to get shit-faced, which is another health 957 00:49:20,987 --> 00:49:23,267 treatment that is, uh, traditionally 958 00:49:23,267 --> 00:49:23,717 finished. 959 00:49:23,717 --> 00:49:23,897 Right? 960 00:49:23,897 --> 00:49:24,018 You do. 961 00:49:24,057 --> 00:49:24,357 Is that 962 00:49:24,357 --> 00:49:28,307 really is that I would never think to drink alcohol and then go on. 963 00:49:28,397 --> 00:49:31,007 To me, that sounds like that would be, that'd be awful. 964 00:49:31,037 --> 00:49:32,507 Is that really part of the tradition? 965 00:49:32,627 --> 00:49:33,917 It's semi mandatory. 966 00:49:33,917 --> 00:49:34,157 Yeah. 967 00:49:35,057 --> 00:49:35,327 Yeah. 968 00:49:35,837 --> 00:49:38,057 With a focus on man, mandatory 969 00:49:39,377 --> 00:49:40,937 wife gets into it too, so, you know. 970 00:49:42,392 --> 00:49:46,022 But, uh, hey, you, you've, you've walked into a little den of us jokers, 971 00:49:46,022 --> 00:49:48,032 uh, picking knits here, but, uh, no. 972 00:49:48,782 --> 00:49:51,572 Matt, while you were saying Brian, about kind of like, what, what you do with 973 00:49:51,572 --> 00:49:54,872 the, with the marketing kind of thing, like I'm, I'm interested in how you, you 974 00:49:54,872 --> 00:50:00,232 take that into, uh, Bitcoin in general, like Bitcoin, I, I think, really does 975 00:50:00,232 --> 00:50:02,612 have a marketing problem generally. 976 00:50:02,612 --> 00:50:04,052 And what's your take on that? 977 00:50:04,052 --> 00:50:07,382 Because I, I, there's, there's so many angles to it. 978 00:50:07,382 --> 00:50:09,452 It's like, does Bitcoin have a scaling problem? 979 00:50:09,457 --> 00:50:11,912 Does Bitcoin have a problem with being too toxic? 980 00:50:11,917 --> 00:50:16,292 All all of these sorts of image things, what's your take on it and, 981 00:50:16,292 --> 00:50:17,912 and how are you trying to address. 982 00:50:18,962 --> 00:50:23,822 All of the issues with within Bitcoin's image, I guess, uh, so to say. 983 00:50:23,822 --> 00:50:24,032 Yeah. 984 00:50:24,152 --> 00:50:24,332 Yeah. 985 00:50:24,332 --> 00:50:24,512 Go. 986 00:50:25,412 --> 00:50:26,312 No, that's a great question. 987 00:50:26,492 --> 00:50:30,362 I think it's just, it comes down to, to sales 1 0 1 and I think that a lot 988 00:50:30,362 --> 00:50:33,242 of Bitcoin purists hate saying, well, we don't need salespeople in Bitcoin. 989 00:50:33,242 --> 00:50:36,072 Well, that was, everybody made fun of me the first day of, of the Miami 990 00:50:36,072 --> 00:50:39,362 conference cuz I was dressed up in a suit and Mateo told me I looked 991 00:50:39,362 --> 00:50:40,742 like I was an insurance salesman. 992 00:50:40,742 --> 00:50:44,552 So, so maybe I'm the guy that doesn't mind looking like the, the salesy person. 993 00:50:44,552 --> 00:50:47,252 But I think that that 1 0 1 of sales. 994 00:50:47,502 --> 00:50:50,892 Is, is asking questions and figuring out where people are. 995 00:50:50,922 --> 00:50:55,092 So I've been able to do, uh, booths at Freedom rallies 996 00:50:55,092 --> 00:50:56,142 here in Southern California. 997 00:50:56,142 --> 00:50:58,632 I mean, we're, we live in California, so we're, you know, we have a 998 00:50:58,632 --> 00:51:01,902 lot of, we have a lot of, uh, people that are tyranny minded. 999 00:51:01,902 --> 00:51:04,632 They love, they love good old Gavin Newsom, but we have a, we have 1000 00:51:04,637 --> 00:51:09,042 pockets of people that love liberty, and for some reason those people 1001 00:51:09,282 --> 00:51:10,602 just don't know about Bitcoin yet. 1002 00:51:10,602 --> 00:51:14,022 It's crazy to me that I, I assume when I go to one of these Liberty rallies and 1003 00:51:14,022 --> 00:51:17,232 I set up a Bitcoin table and I'm just like, here's some information on Bitcoin. 1004 00:51:17,442 --> 00:51:19,002 I figure people are gonna come up and love me. 1005 00:51:19,002 --> 00:51:21,822 But everybody comes up and they're like, this is the market of the beast. 1006 00:51:21,882 --> 00:51:23,622 This is the one world currency of Revel. 1007 00:51:23,712 --> 00:51:24,902 I mean, it is, it is crazy. 1008 00:51:25,042 --> 00:51:26,472 And I'm a Christian Guy. 1009 00:51:26,472 --> 00:51:30,552 I like, I I, I can speak the language, but it's crazy to me that this 1010 00:51:30,552 --> 00:51:35,532 is the reaction people have to it anyways, so it's the, the, the image 1011 00:51:35,532 --> 00:51:37,182 that we have in the Bitcoin space. 1012 00:51:37,532 --> 00:51:39,272 It, it changes from group to group. 1013 00:51:39,482 --> 00:51:42,602 When I go and talk to these, these liberty minded people, and they, they 1014 00:51:42,602 --> 00:51:44,132 wanna know why Bitcoin has value. 1015 00:51:44,312 --> 00:51:49,532 And so me explaining the, the Austrian economic answer of, of market value 1016 00:51:49,532 --> 00:51:53,342 and marginal utility value, like that just falls on deaf ears to them. 1017 00:51:53,672 --> 00:51:53,912 And so, 1018 00:51:53,912 --> 00:51:55,292 subject subjective theory, 1019 00:51:55,292 --> 00:51:56,502 value, subject, subjective. 1020 00:51:56,502 --> 00:51:56,702 Yeah. 1021 00:51:56,702 --> 00:51:57,362 There you go. 1022 00:51:57,362 --> 00:51:57,782 Excuse me. 1023 00:51:58,112 --> 00:52:02,732 Um, so subjective value, it's like th that just falls on deaf ears. 1024 00:52:02,732 --> 00:52:04,622 And so I need to talk about. 1025 00:52:05,012 --> 00:52:06,992 Immutability and censorship resistance. 1026 00:52:06,992 --> 00:52:07,232 Right. 1027 00:52:07,232 --> 00:52:10,742 I immediately will go to, we have to talk about the Canadian trucker rally. 1028 00:52:10,742 --> 00:52:12,602 Like they don't care about scarcity. 1029 00:52:12,632 --> 00:52:14,162 Like, that group doesn't care about scarcity. 1030 00:52:14,162 --> 00:52:16,922 But when I'm talking to my, my stepfather, that's a gold bug. 1031 00:52:17,372 --> 00:52:19,652 Uh, then I need to talk about scarcity. 1032 00:52:19,652 --> 00:52:19,892 Right? 1033 00:52:19,892 --> 00:52:23,912 So I think that that's, I think Bitcoiners just need to be willing and ready to be 1034 00:52:23,912 --> 00:52:26,432 flexible in, in tailoring what we say. 1035 00:52:26,432 --> 00:52:29,162 There's, there's so many components to Bitcoin that I think get 1036 00:52:29,162 --> 00:52:30,992 lost on the general population. 1037 00:52:31,172 --> 00:52:34,232 Um, we geek out on it and we think that, man, there's, there's, there's 1038 00:52:34,232 --> 00:52:36,032 so many things that Bitcoin solves. 1039 00:52:36,037 --> 00:52:38,192 There's so many really interesting facets to it. 1040 00:52:38,197 --> 00:52:42,302 The, the, the difficulty adjustment of Bitcoin mining is, wow, that's such a 1041 00:52:42,512 --> 00:52:46,082 cool innovation that, like if you study Bitcoin mining, this is fascinating, but. 1042 00:52:46,747 --> 00:52:48,517 But my mom doesn't want to hear about that. 1043 00:52:48,577 --> 00:52:50,467 And so how do I appeal to my mom? 1044 00:52:50,467 --> 00:52:54,877 Or how do I appeal, again, back talking to the altcoins, like how do we appeal 1045 00:52:54,882 --> 00:53:00,547 to the Altcoin community when this 21 year old kid got into to Doge because he 1046 00:53:00,547 --> 00:53:03,367 could buy a million Dogecoin for 12 bucks. 1047 00:53:03,372 --> 00:53:05,017 Like how do you, how do you talk to those people? 1048 00:53:05,532 --> 00:53:08,952 And so I think being able to tailor a Bitcoin message for each of 1049 00:53:08,952 --> 00:53:10,032 those people is really important. 1050 00:53:10,032 --> 00:53:11,322 So that's kind of how I wrote the book. 1051 00:53:11,352 --> 00:53:16,752 That's a Bitcoin evangelism is, is here's, here's different, uh, ways to sharpen 1052 00:53:16,757 --> 00:53:19,302 your argument for the Dogecoin guy. 1053 00:53:19,362 --> 00:53:22,422 And that's as easy as telling them about SATs. 1054 00:53:22,692 --> 00:53:25,902 I was pretty shocked at the Bitcoin Miami conference about how many 1055 00:53:26,412 --> 00:53:29,502 crypto people came up and, uh, they said, oh, how much is your book? 1056 00:53:29,502 --> 00:53:31,272 And I said, oh, it's 75,000 SATs. 1057 00:53:31,632 --> 00:53:32,772 And they go, what's a sat? 1058 00:53:33,102 --> 00:53:36,732 And I said, oh, a SAT is a piece of a Bitcoin. 1059 00:53:36,732 --> 00:53:39,792 And here they are at the biggest Bitcoin conference in the world 1060 00:53:40,062 --> 00:53:41,022 and they haven't heard of a sat. 1061 00:53:41,027 --> 00:53:42,913 And guess what I asked this guy, I said, well, what do you do? 1062 00:53:43,222 --> 00:53:45,432 He goes, I work, I work for an exchange. 1063 00:53:46,212 --> 00:53:50,652 And a guy that works for an exchange, he actually makes his living in this space 1064 00:53:50,652 --> 00:53:53,112 somehow didn't understand what a SAT was. 1065 00:53:53,112 --> 00:53:57,722 And so the, the person that wants a lot of something, SAT's appeal 1066 00:53:57,722 --> 00:53:59,702 to them in, in, in, in a major way. 1067 00:53:59,702 --> 00:54:03,212 So I, I think this fundamentally comes down to the argument of, I know 1068 00:54:03,212 --> 00:54:06,812 there's, there's Bitcoin purists that, that say, we, we don't need those 1069 00:54:06,812 --> 00:54:08,522 type of people in the space, right? 1070 00:54:08,522 --> 00:54:11,312 We don't, we don't need the guy that just wants a lot of something. 1071 00:54:11,432 --> 00:54:14,942 If he wants a million Doge, let him have his doge and he can be on his merry way. 1072 00:54:15,072 --> 00:54:19,502 Um, and so I I I, I'm of the belief that I do want those people in the space. 1073 00:54:19,562 --> 00:54:21,872 I want them to, to touch some Bitcoin. 1074 00:54:21,872 --> 00:54:25,982 I want them to touch SATs because I think that that's a gateway drug into them fully 1075 00:54:25,982 --> 00:54:27,812 understanding the, the rest of the space. 1076 00:54:28,172 --> 00:54:31,922 Um, and so I think having an argument or a questions prepared for those 1077 00:54:31,922 --> 00:54:35,522 type of people, a line of reasoning, a logos that appeals to those type of 1078 00:54:35,527 --> 00:54:37,562 people, um, is, is really important. 1079 00:54:37,567 --> 00:54:39,812 And, and that's, again, that's the message of my book. 1080 00:54:39,817 --> 00:54:43,862 And that's, it's, it breaks those different, those different, uh, uh, you 1081 00:54:43,862 --> 00:54:47,102 know, sections down based on different groups of people you might interact with. 1082 00:54:48,152 --> 00:54:48,362 Y 1083 00:54:48,362 --> 00:54:51,782 you know what, Brian, I, I kind of wanna back you up a little bit here on this one 1084 00:54:51,782 --> 00:54:56,927 point too, because, uh, It's not true that someone can't get into crypto and actually 1085 00:54:56,927 --> 00:55:02,057 understand Bitcoin because my, my own journey with it, I, I played around with 1086 00:55:02,117 --> 00:55:07,757 Ethereum for a little bit in 2017 because it's what was going around my office. 1087 00:55:07,757 --> 00:55:12,287 I don't know why my office thought Ethereum was cool, but whatever. 1088 00:55:12,287 --> 00:55:16,397 Like, it's, it's what I heard about and it crashed and I forgot about it. 1089 00:55:16,397 --> 00:55:20,897 And then crypto is going up back in 2021, whatever. 1090 00:55:21,587 --> 00:55:24,977 So, so I check on my Coinbase account and oh my goodness, my $30 1091 00:55:24,977 --> 00:55:26,627 of Ethereum is a lot more money. 1092 00:55:27,347 --> 00:55:28,817 And, and I start playing around with it. 1093 00:55:28,817 --> 00:55:32,297 And I get on like Reddit and, and a bunch of other places. 1094 00:55:32,302 --> 00:55:33,287 Not Twitter, though. 1095 00:55:33,677 --> 00:55:35,207 Twitter, uh, that's probably good. 1096 00:55:35,207 --> 00:55:37,487 Actually at that time I would've gotten into crypto Twitter. 1097 00:55:37,487 --> 00:55:40,727 Not Bitcoin, Twitter, but I got into Reddit and I went to do 1098 00:55:40,732 --> 00:55:42,497 the cryptocurrency sub Reddit. 1099 00:55:42,502 --> 00:55:47,237 And honestly, the only reason that I went into Bitcoin at all was because I kept 1100 00:55:47,237 --> 00:55:50,357 on seeing people say, okay, you gotta have a little bit of Bitcoin because. 1101 00:55:51,557 --> 00:55:52,727 That's kind of the safe thing. 1102 00:55:52,727 --> 00:55:54,137 You gotta have that in your portfolio. 1103 00:55:54,137 --> 00:55:57,827 Whatever I did, I did all the things that a, a new crypto person should do, have 1104 00:55:57,827 --> 00:55:59,717 a balanced portfolio, whatever it is. 1105 00:56:00,137 --> 00:56:02,297 And the, and the thing about it was, I, like, I thought I was 1106 00:56:02,357 --> 00:56:05,537 doing that in a, in a good way. 1107 00:56:05,537 --> 00:56:07,577 And I, I had no idea what Bitcoin was. 1108 00:56:07,967 --> 00:56:08,987 Any idea about it. 1109 00:56:08,987 --> 00:56:11,957 And the, the, the thing was of course, I, I went down the 1110 00:56:11,957 --> 00:56:13,727 bitcoin rabbit hole properly. 1111 00:56:13,727 --> 00:56:16,727 I found proper people that were talking about it in a good way. 1112 00:56:17,267 --> 00:56:22,637 But it, it took that to get me from baseline crypto to Bitcoin. 1113 00:56:23,237 --> 00:56:27,467 And I mean, now I'm a balls deep toxic maxi, like, you know, don't get me wrong. 1114 00:56:27,677 --> 00:56:31,517 But, but the, the, the thing here is that like I, it really, you, you can 1115 00:56:31,517 --> 00:56:35,147 be super ignorant about Bitcoin and be, and still be into crypto otherwise. 1116 00:56:35,147 --> 00:56:35,387 Mm-hmm. 1117 00:56:35,472 --> 00:56:39,827 And even be into having some Bitcoin in your portfolio just because it's 1118 00:56:39,827 --> 00:56:41,297 the so-called blue chip or something. 1119 00:56:41,297 --> 00:56:41,747 So, yeah. 1120 00:56:41,747 --> 00:56:46,187 I, I, I think it, I think it is important to, to try and bridge that 1121 00:56:46,217 --> 00:56:47,307 gap to the, to the crypto people. 1122 00:56:48,062 --> 00:56:48,422 Yeah. 1123 00:56:48,482 --> 00:56:53,162 Uh, well, just to clarify what I was saying before, I think the creators of 1124 00:56:53,162 --> 00:56:56,822 the share coins all know about Bitcoin, not, not the people buying them. 1125 00:56:56,912 --> 00:57:00,332 That's, that's, uh, most people buying them have no clue. 1126 00:57:00,542 --> 00:57:05,252 Like, uh, they wouldn't be buying them if they had, it's like, like, uh, 1127 00:57:05,257 --> 00:57:09,032 socialists who, who, who understood economics wouldn't be socialist. 1128 00:57:09,032 --> 00:57:10,022 It's about the same thing. 1129 00:57:10,112 --> 00:57:10,322 Right. 1130 00:57:13,542 --> 00:57:14,612 I, I have a question for you. 1131 00:57:14,612 --> 00:57:17,862 I brought this up the other night, and, uh, it was, yeah, I just, 1132 00:57:17,902 --> 00:57:20,432 I think it's, it's a fascinating thought experiment for me. 1133 00:57:20,432 --> 00:57:22,172 It's like I, me, me trying to really learn. 1134 00:57:22,622 --> 00:57:29,402 So if we go back to, to, to January of 2009, would you consider 1135 00:57:29,972 --> 00:57:31,472 Bitcoin a shit coin at that point? 1136 00:57:32,447 --> 00:57:35,867 Was was, was there, was there certain markers or is there a certain point 1137 00:57:35,867 --> 00:57:40,067 where, where bitcoin maybe was a shit coin and it no longer is, or 1138 00:57:40,127 --> 00:57:41,567 how, how, how would you define that? 1139 00:57:42,227 --> 00:57:42,527 Yeah. 1140 00:57:42,767 --> 00:57:47,027 I, I wasn't aware of Bitcoin in 2009, so, so I have no 1141 00:57:47,027 --> 00:57:49,067 like, personal story with that. 1142 00:57:49,072 --> 00:57:51,167 But when I discovered Bitcoin, I was skeptic. 1143 00:57:52,597 --> 00:57:58,387 and then I took a course about digital currencies in the plural form, and I 1144 00:57:58,387 --> 00:58:03,337 got to understand like the basics of the elliptic curve, cryptography and 1145 00:58:03,342 --> 00:58:04,687 all of this and the maths behind it. 1146 00:58:04,687 --> 00:58:07,867 And I, uh, studied quite a lot of maths in my life. 1147 00:58:07,872 --> 00:58:12,307 So, so I understand stuff like that fairly, fairly easily. 1148 00:58:13,247 --> 00:58:18,647 what what always puzzled me though was like, uh, if there's, if the thing is 1149 00:58:18,647 --> 00:58:23,492 that, uh, If the value proposition has something to do with this thing being 1150 00:58:23,492 --> 00:58:29,672 finite, how then can we create, how, how could copies of it ever work then? 1151 00:58:29,912 --> 00:58:34,862 Because all of it is, it's a number on a computer, so making copies of that, it's 1152 00:58:34,867 --> 00:58:36,872 just like you can make infinite copies. 1153 00:58:36,872 --> 00:58:41,342 It's like the, the regression there. 1154 00:58:41,552 --> 00:58:45,422 I I, I never, I never bought that, that narrative. 1155 00:58:45,842 --> 00:58:50,372 So, but, but, but then again, I was still skeptic towards Bitcoin be, 1156 00:58:50,582 --> 00:58:57,732 because to me, like either, I always thought either Bitcoin work, either 1157 00:58:57,962 --> 00:58:59,492 Bitcoin works or none of it works. 1158 00:59:00,752 --> 00:59:01,652 Uh, so. 1159 00:59:02,177 --> 00:59:06,047 And I'm sort of still there because there's, there's a small chance 1160 00:59:06,047 --> 00:59:10,547 that Bitcoin, for some odd reason, that I can't foresee will just 1161 00:59:10,607 --> 00:59:12,497 break down and not function anymore. 1162 00:59:13,037 --> 00:59:18,107 But if that happens, I'm still happy because I have this fantastic network of 1163 00:59:18,112 --> 00:59:24,287 people, uh, honest people around the world that I, that I, I know people, the best 1164 00:59:24,287 --> 00:59:26,777 people on every continent at this point. 1165 00:59:26,867 --> 00:59:30,107 But, uh, so, so it was all worth it anyway. 1166 00:59:30,647 --> 00:59:33,707 Having, having said that though, the, the thing that really convinced 1167 00:59:33,707 --> 00:59:38,977 me about Bitcoin being sufficiently decentralized to actually pull off rules 1168 00:59:38,977 --> 00:59:45,767 without rulers was during the, the, when the seg two x hard fork was denied. 1169 00:59:46,457 --> 00:59:50,567 Because for, for those you that don't know, there's a quite a good book 1170 00:59:50,567 --> 00:59:52,817 called The Block Size Wars about this. 1171 00:59:53,027 --> 00:59:56,327 Uh, I do not agree with that description of events. 1172 00:59:57,512 --> 01:00:02,252 Fully, but I say I agree with like 80% of the description of what happened 1173 01:00:02,252 --> 01:00:07,112 in that book, uh, that the guy who wrote it is still sort of trying to 1174 01:00:07,112 --> 01:00:11,582 keep this, that what we did might have been wrong and what the other 1175 01:00:11,582 --> 01:00:13,232 side might have had some merit to it. 1176 01:00:13,292 --> 01:00:19,112 I view it a slightly differently because, so there was an upgrade 1177 01:00:19,382 --> 01:00:23,462 Bitcoin called Segregated Witness, which all the users wanted because that 1178 01:00:23,462 --> 01:00:27,032 would enable the Lightning Network in the future and, and stuff like that. 1179 01:00:27,512 --> 01:00:33,043 So everyone sort of wanted that except for a few, Well, very wealthy players 1180 01:00:33,223 --> 01:00:39,356 who, uh, who, um, could make more money from, from mining if, if SegWit wasn't 1181 01:00:39,361 --> 01:00:42,236 there to, to give the short version here. 1182 01:00:42,236 --> 01:00:45,476 There was something called ASIC Boost, which SegWit would sort 1183 01:00:45,476 --> 01:00:49,856 of deny, and this debates of whether that was ever used or not. 1184 01:00:50,246 --> 01:00:53,126 And I'm not the most technical person, so I don't, I wouldn't 1185 01:00:53,546 --> 01:00:55,136 want to go too deep into that. 1186 01:00:55,616 --> 01:00:59,636 But then, uh, there was a big, uh, cabal of the biggest. 1187 01:00:59,906 --> 01:01:03,656 Biggest companies in Bitcoin at the time, uh, gathering in New York, 1188 01:01:03,866 --> 01:01:08,456 uh, to form an agreement on the, the, the roadmap for the future. 1189 01:01:08,456 --> 01:01:09,266 What, what to do. 1190 01:01:09,266 --> 01:01:13,856 And they decided that we're, we're first going to implement SEG and then increase 1191 01:01:14,306 --> 01:01:16,016 the block size by a hundred percent. 1192 01:01:16,886 --> 01:01:20,546 Uh, so the second hard fork was called, or, or Segway itself was 1193 01:01:20,546 --> 01:01:22,016 not a hard fork, it was a soft fork. 1194 01:01:22,526 --> 01:01:26,936 But then there was a proposed so, uh, hard fork called SEG two X, which 1195 01:01:26,936 --> 01:01:31,616 would, uh, increase the block size, double the block size, uh, because 1196 01:01:31,621 --> 01:01:33,926 fees were getting high in 2017. 1197 01:01:34,346 --> 01:01:36,747 Also, uh, similar to what's happening now. 1198 01:01:37,496 --> 01:01:43,646 And, uh, it's kind of fascinating how the narratives from 2017 1199 01:01:43,646 --> 01:01:44,936 seem to repeat themselves. 1200 01:01:44,936 --> 01:01:48,596 Now this, you know, documents on the blockchain and all, all this 1201 01:01:48,596 --> 01:01:52,436 stuff that was going on back then too, and it was proven wrong and, 1202 01:01:52,586 --> 01:01:54,596 you know, discard that and move on. 1203 01:01:54,926 --> 01:02:01,646 So, so, uh, but anyway, um, The, the two x hard fork never happened 1204 01:02:01,646 --> 01:02:03,086 because the users didn't want it. 1205 01:02:03,086 --> 01:02:07,826 All the nodes signaled the, or a sufficient amount of nodes signaled 1206 01:02:07,826 --> 01:02:09,326 that they didn't want this upgrade. 1207 01:02:09,716 --> 01:02:14,636 So after a while, the mi, the miners who had, like, they were 1208 01:02:14,636 --> 01:02:20,156 sitting on like 99% of the wealth in Bitcoin, uh, at least the fee at 12. 1209 01:02:20,666 --> 01:02:26,546 Uh, and, and they, they still had to bow down to whatever the users 1210 01:02:26,546 --> 01:02:30,386 wanted because they knew if they, if they wouldn't do what the, the node 1211 01:02:30,386 --> 01:02:34,616 runners told them to, to do, they would've, uh, they would've lost 1212 01:02:34,616 --> 01:02:37,766 their business completely because Bill Bitcoin would've failed at that point. 1213 01:02:38,366 --> 01:02:45,532 So, so the, the hard fork never happened, which to me was, was proof enough, that, 1214 01:02:45,772 --> 01:02:53,902 that, uh, The, the users were actually in control, or, or rather, the, everyone in 1215 01:02:53,902 --> 01:03:00,502 the network was in control and it, it was resistance resistant to change in, in that 1216 01:03:00,502 --> 01:03:05,242 crucial way that was needed because what, what the two x hard for would've done is 1217 01:03:05,452 --> 01:03:07,492 that it would've set the precedent for. 1218 01:03:08,977 --> 01:03:12,727 Hard forks like that happening over and over again in the future. 1219 01:03:13,387 --> 01:03:16,447 So then they could have just doubled the block size and doubled it and doubled 1220 01:03:16,447 --> 01:03:21,397 it and doubled it, which in the long run leads to people not, not being 1221 01:03:21,397 --> 01:03:23,137 able to afford to run their own nodes. 1222 01:03:23,767 --> 01:03:26,447 And when people do, do not afford to run their own nodes, because 1223 01:03:26,447 --> 01:03:31,447 they're, they need these giant hard drives, uh, which are costly. 1224 01:03:31,987 --> 01:03:35,197 Uh, then Bitcoin is not decentralized anymore. 1225 01:03:35,257 --> 01:03:42,787 And then, uh, then they're a small elite forms that can make 1226 01:03:42,787 --> 01:03:44,047 decisions for everyone else. 1227 01:03:44,267 --> 01:03:47,017 Uh, so it becomes much more vulnerable to text. 1228 01:03:47,410 --> 01:03:54,460 so, so that's the denial of two x was when bitcoin, when I discovered 1229 01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,730 Bitcoin because I, I think all of this is a personal journey. 1230 01:03:57,730 --> 01:03:59,800 hyperbitcoinization is a personal thing. 1231 01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:03,100 The discovery of Bitcoin is a, is a personal thing. 1232 01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,430 It wasn't created by Satoshi. 1233 01:04:06,430 --> 01:04:08,420 It emerged from the community. 1234 01:04:08,950 --> 01:04:14,020 That was a product of Satoshi's actions, but also of other people's actions. 1235 01:04:14,620 --> 01:04:19,690 And the white paper is just a tiny part of Bitcoin's history and how 1236 01:04:19,690 --> 01:04:24,070 it emerges from smaller parts in, into becoming this bigger thing. 1237 01:04:24,340 --> 01:04:28,330 Um, yeah, so, so that's the way I view it. 1238 01:04:28,420 --> 01:04:33,655 Um, And, uh, that's, that's the story of how I got. 1239 01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,600 How I got to a point in the rabbit hole where I couldn't 1240 01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:39,970 climb up of it's out it again. 1241 01:04:40,180 --> 01:04:43,900 Um, the seg two x hard fork failing. 1242 01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,850 It's, yeah, it's fascinating how something failing could, could be so compelling. 1243 01:04:48,855 --> 01:04:52,690 But yeah, I, I agree that, that, that seemed like a pretty, a pretty, uh, 1244 01:04:52,695 --> 01:04:56,290 substantial moment in the history of Bitcoin and yeah, probably if you had 1245 01:04:56,290 --> 01:04:59,320 to point to, to one period of time that. 1246 01:04:59,745 --> 01:05:05,625 Showed Bitcoin's resilience was, was that because I think that it was really 1247 01:05:05,630 --> 01:05:09,855 easy to gravitate towards the Segway two x for a lot of people, which, you know, 1248 01:05:09,855 --> 01:05:14,445 ended up being Bitcoin cash because the, the, their, their ar their arguments 1249 01:05:14,450 --> 01:05:18,766 sat, anybody that had a kind of a fiat mindset would've gravitated towards that. 1250 01:05:19,005 --> 01:05:19,275 Right. 1251 01:05:19,515 --> 01:05:23,475 Faster, faster transactions and, you know Yeah. 1252 01:05:23,535 --> 01:05:26,265 More profitability and, you know, they, all the, all the arguments 1253 01:05:26,265 --> 01:05:28,995 they were making were, were, were sounded very compelling if you 1254 01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:33,165 had a, uh, a, a short time horizon or, or a high time preference. 1255 01:05:33,495 --> 01:05:37,645 Um, the, the de node operators through that process really kind of took the, 1256 01:05:37,905 --> 01:05:40,995 the long view and like you said, said we're gonna keep the block size, the 1257 01:05:40,995 --> 01:05:45,135 block size smaller so that we can continue to run these nodes so that 1258 01:05:45,135 --> 01:05:49,605 people don't have to outsource these to Amazon web services or what, whatever. 1259 01:05:49,965 --> 01:05:50,235 So, 1260 01:05:51,670 --> 01:05:52,030 Yeah. 1261 01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:57,700 Um, I, I replied to a, a, uh, clip of Eric Weinstein, uh, talking 1262 01:05:57,700 --> 01:05:58,960 about Bitcoin this morning. 1263 01:05:59,530 --> 01:06:06,220 Uh, and how I disagreed with, with almost everything he said, uh, be because 1264 01:06:06,220 --> 01:06:09,660 I felt I, I had to because someone was wrong on the internet, you know? 1265 01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:15,400 So he said, first, he said that you are all here because of a white paper. 1266 01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:19,270 I mean, uh, I'd love to have Eric Weinstein on the pod someday. 1267 01:06:19,270 --> 01:06:23,440 I, I, I, I like the guy a lot, and this is nothing personal against him, but this 1268 01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:27,070 is just a reply to his points because I think I have a different perspective. 1269 01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:30,160 He said that we're, we're all here because of a white paper, 1270 01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:31,960 which I don't think is true. 1271 01:06:32,050 --> 01:06:37,510 Like the white paper is only, uh, a tiny part of, of Bitcoin's history, as I said. 1272 01:06:37,630 --> 01:06:42,730 And, uh, then, then he said, uh, Uh, we, we need to stop 1273 01:06:42,730 --> 01:06:44,740 pretending that Bitcoin is perfect. 1274 01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:48,430 And what he misses there is that Bitcoin never needed to be perfect. 1275 01:06:48,460 --> 01:06:50,830 It just needed to be good enough to last forever. 1276 01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:52,960 Which of my is one of my favorites? 1277 01:06:53,020 --> 01:06:54,220 Tomer Strolight quotes. 1278 01:06:54,730 --> 01:06:56,230 Uh, so that's the thing. 1279 01:06:56,230 --> 01:07:01,000 Uh, you, you reach this point where it's good enough and then that lasts forever. 1280 01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:01,810 And that's the point. 1281 01:07:01,810 --> 01:07:04,210 It doesn't change like it sies. 1282 01:07:04,570 --> 01:07:08,650 Uh, so, and, and then he said that we still need to innovate. 1283 01:07:08,650 --> 01:07:12,220 Innovation is, uh, crucial to this surviving, and it's not, 1284 01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:16,660 uh, lack of innovation is, in a way, resistance to change is way 1285 01:07:16,660 --> 01:07:17,980 more important than innovation. 1286 01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:22,180 We can innovate, innovate on layers on top of it, and we can in, but 1287 01:07:22,420 --> 01:07:26,350 we want the base layer to stay as static as absolutely possible. 1288 01:07:26,980 --> 01:07:31,300 So, so, uh, and then says in order to, to, uh, for. 1289 01:07:33,010 --> 01:07:37,780 To, to provide societal freedom and not only personal freedom, and I think 1290 01:07:37,780 --> 01:07:42,430 that's oxymoronic because I think society is made out of a people and personal 1291 01:07:42,430 --> 01:07:47,380 freedom is like, you can't have societal freedoms without personal freedoms. 1292 01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:47,870 Right. 1293 01:07:48,370 --> 01:07:50,050 It always starts with individual. 1294 01:07:50,380 --> 01:07:55,000 I'm an anarchist or Konsensus, so, so there's no societal freedom 1295 01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,160 without individual freedoms first. 1296 01:07:57,880 --> 01:07:58,150 Yeah. 1297 01:07:58,210 --> 01:08:03,430 And, and then he says like, uh, uh, uh, claims that Bitcoin is, uh, you know, 1298 01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:08,740 if people know you have Bitcoin, they can come home and, and do the $5 or $20 1299 01:08:08,740 --> 01:08:12,820 wrench attack and, and, and threaten you and take all your stuff, but. 1300 01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:14,590 What he misses there. 1301 01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:18,670 Uh, this sounds like an attack on Eric, but it isn't, it's really just 1302 01:08:18,675 --> 01:08:22,390 replying to these points because I think there's, there's a lot of confusion here. 1303 01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:28,840 The, the thing is, you are being attacked right now with a, with a very cheap 1304 01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:33,820 wrench at all times because someone is allowed to run a money printer. 1305 01:08:34,090 --> 01:08:34,210 Mm-hmm. 1306 01:08:34,450 --> 01:08:38,110 And all further on top of that, you, you need to pay taxes, 1307 01:08:38,110 --> 01:08:39,400 otherwise you go to jail. 1308 01:08:39,405 --> 01:08:39,730 Mm-hmm. 1309 01:08:39,820 --> 01:08:41,170 So this is already happening. 1310 01:08:41,530 --> 01:08:42,760 Fiat has that problem with. 1311 01:08:43,865 --> 01:08:46,595 Bitcoin makes violence way less profitable. 1312 01:08:46,745 --> 01:08:46,835 Mm-hmm. 1313 01:08:47,075 --> 01:08:50,915 Because when you cannot know when, uh, how much another person has, or, 1314 01:08:50,915 --> 01:08:54,755 and you cannot take it, uh, by force very easily because the person can 1315 01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:57,485 give up a fraction of their Bitcoin and not tell you about the rest. 1316 01:08:57,575 --> 01:08:57,635 Yeah. 1317 01:08:58,235 --> 01:09:02,195 The, the, the better choice for you as the attacker is to just provide 1318 01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:04,655 something of value to the person and get something of value back. 1319 01:09:05,225 --> 01:09:09,335 So, so it, it moves the shelling point of violence in that, in that sense. 1320 01:09:10,295 --> 01:09:13,085 And Fiat does not, Fiat does the opposite. 1321 01:09:13,090 --> 01:09:18,215 It's, it's extremely easy to take stuff from people in fiat, especially if 1322 01:09:18,220 --> 01:09:19,915 they have credit cards and debit cards. 1323 01:09:20,355 --> 01:09:22,725 Tracking every single payment they do. 1324 01:09:22,995 --> 01:09:28,725 Then a centralized authority has all the information, uh, a about 1325 01:09:28,725 --> 01:09:30,735 all of your financial transactions. 1326 01:09:30,735 --> 01:09:35,805 They, they, they can and are being violent to you and 1327 01:09:35,805 --> 01:09:37,665 stealing your stuff all the time. 1328 01:09:37,785 --> 01:09:40,725 So you're not, you're not living in peace. 1329 01:09:40,755 --> 01:09:44,115 You're, you are living in a, in a perpetual war mm-hmm. 1330 01:09:44,445 --> 01:09:46,185 That the government wages against you. 1331 01:09:46,225 --> 01:09:46,515 Yeah. 1332 01:09:46,695 --> 01:09:48,345 You're being violated against. 1333 01:09:49,130 --> 01:09:53,030 Every single microsecond because someone has a mic, uh, a money printer. 1334 01:09:53,390 --> 01:09:56,330 That's the main reason, and that's the problem that Bitcoin solves. 1335 01:09:56,570 --> 01:09:57,890 So yeah, just wanted 1336 01:09:57,890 --> 01:10:02,360 to ramp there for what their, their vi their violence doesn't need to be perfect. 1337 01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:03,770 It just needs to last forever. 1338 01:10:03,775 --> 01:10:03,860 Right. 1339 01:10:03,930 --> 01:10:04,420 Exactly. 1340 01:10:04,420 --> 01:10:06,141 And that's what Exactly, and that's what they've done. 1341 01:10:06,370 --> 01:10:08,340 They've figured out full of violence. 1342 01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:08,900 Yeah. 1343 01:10:08,905 --> 01:10:12,020 That, that, that's just perpetual and it's below the surface and it's 1344 01:10:12,020 --> 01:10:16,850 constantly simmering, not below the balance, best riding the nads. 1345 01:10:17,780 --> 01:10:20,690 Um, so, but yeah, I mean, to your point, I think this is one of the 1346 01:10:20,690 --> 01:10:23,870 most compelling things that Yeah, when I, I find that this is a more 1347 01:10:23,870 --> 01:10:27,440 interesting talking point for the, the gold bug or the fiat minded person 1348 01:10:27,740 --> 01:10:29,780 that maybe is a little bit wealthier. 1349 01:10:29,990 --> 01:10:31,820 They said, well, yeah, $5 wrench attack. 1350 01:10:31,820 --> 01:10:35,240 I like that you've added the inflation into the wrench attacks and now it's $20. 1351 01:10:35,570 --> 01:10:39,740 Um, but, but yeah, they say, well, if somebody puts a gun to my head, 1352 01:10:40,065 --> 01:10:43,485 All my, they, they know that all my Bitcoin could just be on, you 1353 01:10:43,485 --> 01:10:45,195 know, my, my seed signer somewhere. 1354 01:10:45,435 --> 01:10:47,175 And I said, yeah, you know, I'll bring up the points. 1355 01:10:47,175 --> 01:10:51,495 Like you said, well, of course you need to have your, your, your dummy one, right? 1356 01:10:51,500 --> 01:10:53,805 You need to have your one that has a thousand dollars worth of 1357 01:10:53,805 --> 01:10:56,955 Bitcoin or what, you know, has, has two, 2 million satoshis on it. 1358 01:10:56,955 --> 01:10:57,496 You give that one over. 1359 01:10:57,705 --> 01:10:59,985 So obviously there's, there's, there's things that you can put into 1360 01:10:59,985 --> 01:11:03,765 your, your, your protection plan, but they need to understand that. 1361 01:11:04,340 --> 01:11:08,300 It doesn't make sense to rob somebody for Bitcoin in the same way that it would 1362 01:11:08,300 --> 01:11:11,360 make sense if you have a safe in your house with a hundred thousand dollars 1363 01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:16,310 of fiat, uh, that that actually could be a very lucrative, lucrative theft. 1364 01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:16,610 Right? 1365 01:11:16,730 --> 01:11:19,970 They're actually incentivized to kill me because as soon as they pull the trigger 1366 01:11:19,970 --> 01:11:24,350 on that gun, they have an unlimited amount of time to search through my property 1367 01:11:24,350 --> 01:11:27,590 or search through my residence to find that safe that's under the floorboards. 1368 01:11:27,590 --> 01:11:31,010 They will given enough time, they will eventually find that safe and 1369 01:11:31,010 --> 01:11:32,480 they'll be able to extract that value. 1370 01:11:32,690 --> 01:11:36,290 But if they have a gun to my head and I never gave them my seed phrase, 1371 01:11:36,620 --> 01:11:40,410 then they've automatically lost the ability to access my funds. 1372 01:11:40,430 --> 01:11:44,390 So them pulling the trigger, disqualifies them from being able to 1373 01:11:44,420 --> 01:11:48,620 perform that theft in the same way that it actually frees them to roam 1374 01:11:48,620 --> 01:11:52,730 my property, to find my funds in, in, in a fiat sense or in a gold sense. 1375 01:11:52,730 --> 01:11:54,080 If I have a stash of gold in my house. 1376 01:11:54,085 --> 01:11:54,920 It's the same thing. 1377 01:11:55,190 --> 01:11:58,610 And so, uh, Bitcoin has this built in protection that. 1378 01:11:59,475 --> 01:12:03,675 I'm the, as soon as you blow my brains, my brains were the only thing that, 1379 01:12:03,675 --> 01:12:05,535 that, that had access to those coins. 1380 01:12:06,375 --> 01:12:06,645 Yeah. 1381 01:12:06,645 --> 01:12:10,185 And uh, at the end of the day, all of the bitcoins are in someone's head. 1382 01:12:10,755 --> 01:12:14,925 It's all about keeping a secret, like the seed phrase, if you broadcasted 1383 01:12:14,925 --> 01:12:18,975 the sec seed phrase, put it on TV or at a billboard somewhere, the 1384 01:12:18,975 --> 01:12:23,055 Bitcoin would disappear pretty quickly because someone would figure it out. 1385 01:12:23,535 --> 01:12:28,455 But to even know that a seed phrase is a seed phrase, you can hide them in a poem, 1386 01:12:28,485 --> 01:12:33,625 for instance, or like, they're, they're such a, We've just be begun to scratch 1387 01:12:33,625 --> 01:12:37,975 the surface of how to do Bitcoin security because there's, there's so many ways of 1388 01:12:37,975 --> 01:12:39,895 keeping a secret, and that's all it is. 1389 01:12:39,985 --> 01:12:41,935 It's all about just keeping a secret. 1390 01:12:42,445 --> 01:12:45,565 And you can keep one secret, you can keep many secrets, but at the 1391 01:12:45,565 --> 01:12:49,195 end of the day, all Bitcoin's rec reside within a person's head. 1392 01:12:49,615 --> 01:12:53,375 Uh, or a couple of persons had a couple of people's heads, right? 1393 01:12:54,145 --> 01:12:58,225 So that's all it is, and that's, that's what makes it so much more resilient 1394 01:12:58,225 --> 01:13:03,145 to violence than physical things, because physical things are, Physical. 1395 01:13:03,515 --> 01:13:03,935 Mm-hmm. 1396 01:13:04,045 --> 01:13:05,185 This is not physical. 1397 01:13:05,190 --> 01:13:06,115 This is in your brain. 1398 01:13:06,115 --> 01:13:06,205 Yes. 1399 01:13:06,445 --> 01:13:07,495 It's a different thing. 1400 01:13:07,495 --> 01:13:11,155 It's in the intellectual realm, not in the realm of physical violence. 1401 01:13:11,545 --> 01:13:11,815 Right. 1402 01:13:12,055 --> 01:13:15,535 And everybody has intellect where not everybody has physical strength or 1403 01:13:15,535 --> 01:13:17,365 physical means to protect themselves. 1404 01:13:17,365 --> 01:13:21,385 So it's, it's literally the most equalizing type of, of, of property 1405 01:13:21,385 --> 01:13:24,445 that you can have because everybody has the ability to secure that. 1406 01:13:24,775 --> 01:13:28,165 It's the only, I believe you've said this before, it's the only true property Right. 1407 01:13:28,170 --> 01:13:31,465 That that could ever exist because they can't be taken by physical force. 1408 01:13:31,765 --> 01:13:35,185 Um, and, and, and Luke, to your, to your earlier question about, uh, 1409 01:13:35,215 --> 01:13:39,535 marketing, I think, I think that one of the things that, um, I found was a, 1410 01:13:39,535 --> 01:13:44,755 was an early, um, boost in the shot, uh, or, you know, boost in the arm of, 1411 01:13:44,755 --> 01:13:47,785 of my book sales and kind of got, when I was starting to do my book tour, 1412 01:13:47,935 --> 01:13:49,555 people were, were fascinated by my book. 1413 01:13:49,555 --> 01:13:50,965 They'd never heard my name before. 1414 01:13:51,205 --> 01:13:54,535 And so, you know, how, how am I gonna sell a book to people if they don't know who 1415 01:13:54,540 --> 01:13:55,975 I am or they don't know my background? 1416 01:13:56,185 --> 01:13:58,496 So what I did was I actually hid a seed phrase. 1417 01:13:58,955 --> 01:14:03,335 In the early copies of my book, and I said that here, this is meant to be a lesson. 1418 01:14:03,335 --> 01:14:06,605 There's, there's 12 words hidden throughout the book, and the first 1419 01:14:06,605 --> 01:14:08,735 person that finds it wins 5 million sets. 1420 01:14:09,065 --> 01:14:14,155 And so I want people to understand that, that it, yes, it, Bitcoin 1421 01:14:14,435 --> 01:14:15,935 is about keeping a secret. 1422 01:14:16,145 --> 01:14:16,715 You can even. 1423 01:14:17,650 --> 01:14:19,420 Be kind of loose with that secret. 1424 01:14:19,420 --> 01:14:22,090 I can try to give that secret out to the world, but unless 1425 01:14:22,090 --> 01:14:25,780 you, like here, I promise you those 12 words are in this book. 1426 01:14:25,930 --> 01:14:29,290 But unless you know how to find them, it's still a secret. 1427 01:14:29,290 --> 01:14:31,660 And so even by putting that out publicly, like you said, 1428 01:14:31,660 --> 01:14:32,740 you could hide it in a poem. 1429 01:14:32,860 --> 01:14:33,790 I hid it in my book. 1430 01:14:33,970 --> 01:14:35,170 My, my, my daughter. 1431 01:14:35,175 --> 01:14:40,630 She, uh, she has this, uh, fun way of, of her, her seed phrase is written down. 1432 01:14:40,630 --> 01:14:41,890 I, I won't tell you the exact method. 1433 01:14:42,340 --> 01:14:47,410 Methodology, of course, but she, she wrote a, uh, a poem in crayon that she 1434 01:14:47,410 --> 01:14:52,120 keeps in her safe and will say every, every fifth word is her seed phrase. 1435 01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:54,880 And it just looks like a child's poem written in crayon. 1436 01:14:55,060 --> 01:14:58,510 But it's, it's all of her, you know, it's her, you know, 50,000 SATs she 1437 01:14:58,510 --> 01:15:01,750 owns or whatever it is, and it's, it's her way of securing that. 1438 01:15:01,750 --> 01:15:04,080 And it's so fun to talk to children about. 1439 01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:07,940 Securing a seed phrase and, and, and just here, here, this is why it matters. 1440 01:15:07,940 --> 01:15:08,720 It's the secret. 1441 01:15:08,900 --> 01:15:10,850 This is something that you can keep and you don't have 1442 01:15:10,850 --> 01:15:12,080 to tell mom and dad about it. 1443 01:15:12,380 --> 01:15:17,360 Um, she came up with this own interesting way of securing her seed phrase, uh, that, 1444 01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:18,740 that I, that I wouldn't have thought of. 1445 01:15:18,950 --> 01:15:22,100 Um, and so she, she even told me, she goes, yeah, if somebody were to, 1446 01:15:22,105 --> 01:15:25,490 to break into my safe, if my brother was to break into my safe, he would 1447 01:15:25,490 --> 01:15:27,950 see this and he would just think it was a story that I wrote down, 1448 01:15:27,950 --> 01:15:29,000 or it was a poem that I wrote down. 1449 01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:30,980 He wouldn't even know that it was my seed phrase, you know, 1450 01:15:30,980 --> 01:15:31,850 tho those types of things. 1451 01:15:31,850 --> 01:15:35,570 So it's, uh, it's very fascinating talking to children and see how when 1452 01:15:35,570 --> 01:15:39,410 they, when they start to grasp Bitcoin, what are the, the innovations in 1453 01:15:39,415 --> 01:15:42,530 Bitcoin aren't, like you said, don't need to happen at the base layer. 1454 01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:44,360 They need to happen at the intellectual layer. 1455 01:15:44,570 --> 01:15:47,270 Our children are gonna have more layer. 1456 01:15:47,590 --> 01:15:48,850 The social layer, right? 1457 01:15:48,850 --> 01:15:49,150 Yeah. 1458 01:15:49,155 --> 01:15:49,380 Yeah. 1459 01:15:49,390 --> 01:15:51,010 So, so, so yeah. 1460 01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:55,870 In a way, it's safer to keep the seed phrase outta the safe than in 1461 01:15:55,875 --> 01:16:00,700 the safe, because if, if there's a safe, so that implies that there's 1462 01:16:00,705 --> 01:16:02,410 something valuable in the safe. 1463 01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:07,810 If, if the, if it's just a poem on a, in, in some notebook somewhere, 1464 01:16:08,410 --> 01:16:10,330 then no one, no one will ever know. 1465 01:16:10,330 --> 01:16:12,340 Like they, they don't even know what they're looking for. 1466 01:16:12,850 --> 01:16:12,940 Yeah. 1467 01:16:12,940 --> 01:16:13,960 So, so that's the thing. 1468 01:16:14,620 --> 01:16:18,070 And I just realized I can make a lot of people do a lot of stupid stuff by 1469 01:16:18,070 --> 01:16:23,260 claiming that there's 12 words hidden in each and every one of my books. 1470 01:16:23,890 --> 01:16:26,470 And I stored about a hundred big bitcoins in each. 1471 01:16:28,660 --> 01:16:29,590 There may or may 1472 01:16:29,590 --> 01:16:30,160 not be. 1473 01:16:33,410 --> 01:16:33,700 Yeah. 1474 01:16:33,700 --> 01:16:33,940 Yeah. 1475 01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:36,460 There's not, don't believe him. 1476 01:16:38,020 --> 01:16:38,620 So good one. 1477 01:16:38,625 --> 01:16:39,070 Brian. 1478 01:16:40,480 --> 01:16:43,300 Has anyone found, I guess no one has found them yet. 1479 01:16:43,690 --> 01:16:44,530 Somebody found it. 1480 01:16:44,530 --> 01:16:45,430 It took about six months. 1481 01:16:45,790 --> 01:16:46,000 Yeah. 1482 01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:46,480 Oh yeah. 1483 01:16:46,480 --> 01:16:46,720 Alright. 1484 01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:48,130 I made it pretty complicated too. 1485 01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:51,340 Um, it was a, it was a woman from the, the, that I met at the BEEF Initiative. 1486 01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:54,340 She, she found it nice and yeah, it was, uh, it was good. 1487 01:16:54,340 --> 01:16:54,610 So. 1488 01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:55,960 Excellent. 1489 01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:56,620 Excellent. 1490 01:16:56,860 --> 01:16:58,690 Did you hear about Michael Dunworth? 1491 01:16:58,690 --> 01:17:00,760 Uh, the Peter Dunworth brother? 1492 01:17:00,820 --> 01:17:05,080 Uh, my Australian friends, uh, he, no. 1493 01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:10,500 Michael sent a Bitcoin to the future, to the year 2,140. 1494 01:17:11,375 --> 01:17:16,120 Uh, uh, time locked it and, oh, the, the key is, is on the 1495 01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:17,530 internet for everyone to see. 1496 01:17:18,220 --> 01:17:23,260 So anyone who claims that in 2,140 gets an, an entire Bitcoin, whereas like a 1497 01:17:23,260 --> 01:17:25,870 couple of cities, uh, gosh, at that point, 1498 01:17:27,430 --> 01:17:28,050 that's amazing. 1499 01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:29,090 It's right. 1500 01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:34,300 And the, the most amazing part of it is that you can actually do that. 1501 01:17:34,930 --> 01:17:39,790 You can just tell the, the tell the network that these, this Bitcoin 1502 01:17:39,790 --> 01:17:45,310 here, this here Bitcoin cannot be unlocked and sent to some other 1503 01:17:45,310 --> 01:17:47,500 address until this block height. 1504 01:17:48,550 --> 01:17:49,180 That's amazing. 1505 01:17:49,510 --> 01:17:51,880 And then you protect them from even yourself. 1506 01:17:52,570 --> 01:17:53,530 So that's 1507 01:17:53,530 --> 01:17:54,160 a really good point. 1508 01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:56,140 I don't trust my kids, but I'm gonna pass this on to my 1509 01:17:56,145 --> 01:17:57,251 grandkids so I'm gonna time one. 1510 01:17:57,256 --> 01:17:58,090 Exactly, exactly. 1511 01:17:58,600 --> 01:17:59,590 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1512 01:17:59,590 --> 01:18:01,060 That's possible right now. 1513 01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:03,520 And people ought to be doing it, but they are. 1514 01:18:03,910 --> 01:18:06,160 And some are, but far 1515 01:18:06,165 --> 01:18:06,580 too few. 1516 01:18:07,510 --> 01:18:07,730 Wow. 1517 01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:09,940 Thank you for sharing that cause I didn't know that actually. 1518 01:18:09,940 --> 01:18:10,690 That's really interesting. 1519 01:18:10,690 --> 01:18:10,870 Yeah. 1520 01:18:11,713 --> 01:18:15,343 The show is also sponsored by Bitcoin Book Shop, the Bitcoin only 1521 01:18:15,343 --> 01:18:17,143 bookstore by Konsensus Network. 1522 01:18:17,533 --> 01:18:20,743 Konsensus specializes in translations of Bitcoin books and 1523 01:18:20,743 --> 01:18:24,193 also publishes original titles in English and many other languages. 1524 01:18:24,523 --> 01:18:27,673 Check out Bitcoin book Shop for all your Bitcoin book needs. 1525 01:18:28,063 --> 01:18:30,553 Konsensus is always looking for new contributors. 1526 01:18:30,583 --> 01:18:33,283 Whether you have a book you wanna publish, you wanna help translate 1527 01:18:33,283 --> 01:18:34,783 books into your native language. 1528 01:18:35,158 --> 01:18:38,248 Or you have some other way you want to get involved, so if you want to help 1529 01:18:38,248 --> 01:18:42,268 spread the Bitcoin message, reach out to Konsensus Network by Twitter or 1530 01:18:42,268 --> 01:18:44,248 email details are in the show notes. 1531 01:18:44,826 --> 01:18:45,786 what else do we have, Luke? 1532 01:18:46,146 --> 01:18:48,096 Um, it's a good time to wrap up 1533 01:18:48,096 --> 01:18:48,516 maybe. 1534 01:18:48,726 --> 01:18:49,056 Yeah. 1535 01:18:49,176 --> 01:18:51,296 Honestly I think, I think we've had a good convo, so yeah. 1536 01:18:51,696 --> 01:18:52,266 Thanks Brian. 1537 01:18:52,296 --> 01:18:52,476 Yeah. 1538 01:18:52,476 --> 01:18:52,926 Loved it. 1539 01:18:53,526 --> 01:18:57,416 Can you tell us, our listeners, where to find you and uh, maybe any 1540 01:18:57,876 --> 01:18:59,256 last words you have about orange 1541 01:18:59,256 --> 01:18:59,586 pill app? 1542 01:19:00,156 --> 01:19:00,366 Yeah. 1543 01:19:00,396 --> 01:19:00,756 Thank you. 1544 01:19:00,756 --> 01:19:02,406 Well, thanks for, for having me on. 1545 01:19:02,436 --> 01:19:03,276 This was just fun. 1546 01:19:03,336 --> 01:19:06,426 Like, if there was no recording, I would just love to hang with you guys and chat. 1547 01:19:06,426 --> 01:19:08,916 So, um, you know, this is, yeah, my pleasure. 1548 01:19:09,396 --> 01:19:11,856 As far as reaching out to me, touch, touch base with me on the 1549 01:19:11,856 --> 01:19:15,696 orange pill app, um, I'm much more responsive on the orange pill app just 1550 01:19:15,696 --> 01:19:17,636 because I, I know it's Bitcoiners. 1551 01:19:17,936 --> 01:19:20,766 Um, I try to get back to everybody on Twitter, so I'll do my best to 1552 01:19:20,766 --> 01:19:22,116 get back to, to people on Twitter. 1553 01:19:22,116 --> 01:19:26,376 And uh, you know, we, we love interacting with the social layer of Bitcoin, so, 1554 01:19:26,586 --> 01:19:27,996 um, that, that's really important. 1555 01:19:28,836 --> 01:19:29,286 There we go. 1556 01:19:29,616 --> 01:19:31,806 Always, always doing a nice show for it. 1557 01:19:32,046 --> 01:19:33,306 Um, but I think it is important. 1558 01:19:33,311 --> 01:19:37,426 That mean, that's my, my one last pitch to sign off with is that, We can all do 1559 01:19:37,426 --> 01:19:41,506 something in Bitcoin today to, to help build, to lower our time preference. 1560 01:19:41,506 --> 01:19:45,526 Your time preference will just naturally lower if you're trying to 1561 01:19:45,526 --> 01:19:47,446 do something that's of material value. 1562 01:19:47,446 --> 01:19:51,676 So whether that's hosting a meetup, whether that's going to, to to Prague, 1563 01:19:51,676 --> 01:19:55,756 whether that's doing something that's, you know, being Konsensus, Network and 1564 01:19:55,761 --> 01:20:00,526 selling books, like all, all of these things, it, it gets you focused on, okay, 1565 01:20:00,526 --> 01:20:03,676 I can do something we, cause every human wants to do something here and now, right? 1566 01:20:03,676 --> 01:20:06,046 Like we have a, we have a high time preference. 1567 01:20:06,126 --> 01:20:06,936 With our day. 1568 01:20:06,996 --> 01:20:08,586 What, what's my checklist for today? 1569 01:20:08,736 --> 01:20:09,306 That's fine. 1570 01:20:09,306 --> 01:20:13,356 Like on productive things, we should have a, a, a high time preference because if 1571 01:20:13,356 --> 01:20:16,926 I need to make this hamburger, I can't wait forever for the hamburger to be made. 1572 01:20:16,926 --> 01:20:18,666 So we need to build today. 1573 01:20:19,056 --> 01:20:21,006 Those are the things we can have high time preference on. 1574 01:20:21,096 --> 01:20:23,556 But what is the focus in the long term? 1575 01:20:23,556 --> 01:20:26,406 Are we building something that's gonna last till 2140? 1576 01:20:26,406 --> 01:20:30,246 So I can unlock Michael's dunworth to Bitcoin, which I, which I for sure 1577 01:20:30,246 --> 01:20:34,896 am now gonna strive to live to be 170 years old just so that I can get access 1578 01:20:34,896 --> 01:20:36,276 to a few cities worth of Bitcoin. 1579 01:20:36,516 --> 01:20:41,706 Um, but what we, what we pitch with orange pill app is if you don't have an idea 1580 01:20:41,711 --> 01:20:45,816 for how you wanna build in Bitcoin, Help build the social layer, help build the 1581 01:20:45,816 --> 01:20:47,676 social layer of Bitcoin by plugging in. 1582 01:20:47,946 --> 01:20:51,516 Um, if you're the first Bitcoin that you know of in your area, cuz you 1583 01:20:51,516 --> 01:20:55,896 live in a remote area, then, then plug into the network and be that 1584 01:20:55,896 --> 01:20:58,086 first node in that local community. 1585 01:20:58,086 --> 01:21:00,846 Because what happens is every network needs to start with 1586 01:21:00,846 --> 01:21:03,936 a node somewhere and then the network will build out around you. 1587 01:21:03,936 --> 01:21:05,766 So be willing to be that first person. 1588 01:21:05,766 --> 01:21:09,216 Or if you're in an area that's high density already and you have 50 Bitcoiners 1589 01:21:09,216 --> 01:21:12,546 that are on orange pill app near you, then start interacting with those people. 1590 01:21:12,756 --> 01:21:16,656 Go grab coffee, create an event in your area, and, and, and host a meetup 1591 01:21:16,656 --> 01:21:19,866 or you know, there's, there's Bitcoin games that you can play now you can, 1592 01:21:19,866 --> 01:21:23,661 you know, Buy one of these games and, and host a game night or do, you know, 1593 01:21:23,811 --> 01:21:26,931 monopoly party or a poker party or whatever, and just get together with 1594 01:21:26,961 --> 01:21:29,001 Bitcoiners and, and, and do those things. 1595 01:21:29,241 --> 01:21:34,071 Um, and so that, that's my pitch to people is find a way to, uh, contribute 1596 01:21:34,131 --> 01:21:36,201 to and build in Bitcoin today. 1597 01:21:36,441 --> 01:21:39,651 Um, because we'll have a, a brighter orange future tomorrow. 1598 01:21:39,711 --> 01:21:43,221 Um, and, uh, yeah, orange pill app, if you go to the orange pill 1599 01:21:43,221 --> 01:21:46,041 app.com, you can sign up, you can pay in Bitcoin if you want. 1600 01:21:46,281 --> 01:21:48,681 You can sign up through the app app store and pay through the app store 1601 01:21:48,681 --> 01:21:51,651 if you prefer the, the fiat method that's, you know, fine as well. 1602 01:21:51,951 --> 01:21:55,341 Um, and, uh, yeah, look forward to later this year. 1603 01:21:55,341 --> 01:21:59,151 We will have our orange pages, our, our merchant section of the orange pill 1604 01:21:59,151 --> 01:22:03,921 app, where you can find local Bitcoin merchants, um, which we are very excited 1605 01:22:03,921 --> 01:22:07,251 about as well because I think that that's gonna contribute to hyperbitcoinization, 1606 01:22:07,521 --> 01:22:11,271 um, of, of being able to just pragmatically orange pill merchants. 1607 01:22:11,271 --> 01:22:13,041 So, um, and as far as my book. 1608 01:22:13,386 --> 01:22:14,886 It's available on Amazon. 1609 01:22:14,886 --> 01:22:16,266 It's called Bitcoin Evangelism. 1610 01:22:16,326 --> 01:22:18,156 Uh, feel free to to check it out. 1611 01:22:18,396 --> 01:22:20,916 Um, it's on Audible, all of those places as well. 1612 01:22:20,916 --> 01:22:21,726 So thank you guys. 1613 01:22:21,726 --> 01:22:22,716 I, I really appreciate it. 1614 01:22:22,721 --> 01:22:25,836 Luke and Canoe guys are, are awesome and you guys are an inspiration. 1615 01:22:25,866 --> 01:22:29,406 You guys are really, uh, pushing the intellectual layer of Bitcoin and, uh, 1616 01:22:29,411 --> 01:22:30,936 I always find it challenging and fun. 1617 01:22:32,406 --> 01:22:33,126 Thanks a lot. 1618 01:22:33,276 --> 01:22:37,776 Um, yeah, everyone, everyone thinks they need to be a developer to contribute 1619 01:22:37,776 --> 01:22:39,756 to Bitcoin, but the opposite is true. 1620 01:22:39,756 --> 01:22:41,886 Everyone's a fucking developer in this space. 1621 01:22:41,891 --> 01:22:45,786 We need the division of labor, we need all those sorts of other skills. 1622 01:22:46,356 --> 01:22:49,416 So, uh, yeah, go make yourself useful. 1623 01:22:49,716 --> 01:22:51,876 Um, thanks so much for coming on. 1624 01:22:51,906 --> 01:22:56,346 Um, Brian, looking forward to the next spaces and the next, uh, OPA meeting, 1625 01:22:56,406 --> 01:22:58,566 whenever that is, after Prague, I think. 1626 01:22:58,706 --> 01:22:59,316 Yeah, yeah. 1627 01:22:59,316 --> 01:22:59,916 Hope Perfect. 1628 01:23:00,576 --> 01:23:03,426 And, uh, yeah, we'll fill you guys in on this orange pilling Congress 1629 01:23:03,431 --> 01:23:06,696 thing that should, we should have lots of fun content to provide, uh, yeah. 1630 01:23:06,936 --> 01:23:09,846 Hopefully some fun reactions from politicians on Capitol Hill. 1631 01:23:10,476 --> 01:23:10,806 Yep. 1632 01:23:11,016 --> 01:23:12,126 Yeah, that'll be fun. 1633 01:23:12,816 --> 01:23:12,936 Awesome. 1634 01:23:12,936 --> 01:23:13,926 All right, take care, 1635 01:23:13,926 --> 01:23:14,376 Brian. 1636 01:23:14,913 --> 01:23:16,713 What did you think of that episode with Brian? 1637 01:23:17,043 --> 01:23:19,743 It was great to hear about all the work he's doing with orange pill App, and 1638 01:23:19,743 --> 01:23:22,870 we're really excited about some of the new features they have rolling out soon. 1639 01:23:23,470 --> 01:23:25,270 Check out orange pill app if you haven't already. 1640 01:23:25,270 --> 01:23:27,490 It's available on iOS and Android. 1641 01:23:28,270 --> 01:23:29,770 Let us know what you think of the episode. 1642 01:23:29,770 --> 01:23:31,870 You can send us a Boostgram on Fountain. 1643 01:23:31,870 --> 01:23:35,380 Leave us a comment on YouTube or get in touch on Noster or Twitter. 1644 01:23:36,100 --> 01:23:39,070 If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like the episode and subscribe 1645 01:23:39,070 --> 01:23:40,600 to the Konsensus Network channel. 1646 01:23:41,350 --> 01:23:45,400 Our show sponsors are Wasabi Wallet, orange pill app, and Bitcoin Book shop. 1647 01:23:45,610 --> 01:23:49,300 Use code Footprint at Bitcoin Book Shop for 10% off your purchase. 1648 01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:50,920 That's all for now. 1649 01:23:51,190 --> 01:23:53,290 See you next time, and thanks for listening.