Bitcoin in Africa with Abubakar Nur Khalil - Bitcoin Infinity Show #149

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Bitcoin mining is probably

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the biggest catalyst for

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why governments

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are starting to take the club

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more seriously

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on the continent.

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They started realizing

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that this whole mechanism

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of bootstrapping

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energy production

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by having a buyer first

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demand has solved

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all the issues that we've had

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for decades

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in terms of electrification.

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So if I was to die

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and be brought back again,

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and I had to choose

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where I'd be born,

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I still want to be born

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in Nigeria again.

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I guess this energy about us

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when it comes to

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being on your feet

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and trying to do things

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for yourself

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as a lot of things

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don't work.

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So typically

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a lot of people

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are brought up

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to be a bit

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more like grit

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and kind of ambition

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because you're forced

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into that circumstance.

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Most people here in Europe

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aren't aware of how much

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the banks

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and central

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banks of the Western world

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have been screwing

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you guys over.

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There's this

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obvious opportunity

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for Africans potential

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where it's

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been completely extracted.

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But internally,

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there are a lot of folks

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that masquerade

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as trying

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to help the continent.

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But really,

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what they're doing

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is using Africa as this

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marketing campaign for them.

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And the reason

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some personally

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are get into all the rooms

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and places

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where folks make decisions

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about where

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they're extracting

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resources from Africa.

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Abubakar.

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Welcome to the

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Bitcoin Infinity Show.

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Thanks for joining us.

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Thanks so much for having me.

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Yeah, great

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to see you again, Abubakar.

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We've run into one another

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in a couple of

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conferences here and there.

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During the last year

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and I remember the first,

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the first time

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I heard of you was,

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during the week

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where we formed the

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the Free Madera organization.

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So there was

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there were all of these

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big shots,

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like Jeff and Larry and Greg

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talking about this boy genius

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from Nigeria and, Yeah.

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So so you yeah,

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you have a very interesting

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background story.

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You you, became a Bitcoin

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core contributor

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at an early age.

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I mean, we're

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very eager

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to hear your story.

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Not only the Tldr, but like,

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maybe the

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the, the l, did read,

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you know,

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so let's start from

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the top, please.

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And and tell us

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about yourself.

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Yeah. For sure.

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I think

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just to give more context,

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all started mostly 2017 ish.

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And that was about the

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same time at,

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the price

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rally was just

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getting to that point.

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And I think

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one of the main things

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as well,

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that caught my attention

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at that point,

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reading up about

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baseline was kind of the,

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the wars that were happening

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at the time

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for SegWit and all that.

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So that was an interesting

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cultural,

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cause phenomenon

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that was going on

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within the Bitcoin space

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about redefining what bitcoin

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is potentially the future

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and kind of where

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to pick in terms

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of the next steps

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for Bitcoin.

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So for me,

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that was the hurdle

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of understanding

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what the hell this is.

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And then it's harder

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given the fact

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there's so much

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I would say, both information

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and misinformation on Exxon

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at the time. Twitter.

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So at the point I was

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just a year

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after I graduated

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high school,

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so we had a lot of time

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on my hand.

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And the thinking for me

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then was the strategy

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I had was to take a year out

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and then

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potentially figure out

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what exactly

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I could do with my life.

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The intention was to go in

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and study architecture,

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and then that morphed

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into engineering

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based on the reading

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I was doing.

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And then,

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suffice to say,

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by the end of 2017,

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I realized that there's

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a lot more to

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to figure out

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about myself specifically.

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So by 2018,

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I started teaching myself

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how to code

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as a result of Bitcoin,

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mostly because I didn't know

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what I was reading.

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And for me,

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the thinking was simple that

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I don't know

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what I'm reading,

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which is highly, technical.

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And the idea

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should be teach myself

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that the technical

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things that are missing out.

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So I said to myself,

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how to program,

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specifically things around

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computers, compilers,

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all of that.

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So I got me into

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a bunch of projects, really,

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and an open

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source specifically.

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So cut up a small toy

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programing language

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based off of a book

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called Quality

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Programing Interpreter,

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something like that

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by Robert Nystrom,

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which is an insane book

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if anyone has already had.

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And the idea by

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the end of 2018 was to start

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understanding the

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technical aspects.

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So at that point

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I was pretty conversant

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with Python,

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a couple of languages.

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My 2019 was

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when I realized that Bitcoin

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is a proper protocol.

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So I started

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looking at the GitHub

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and I think they had this

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October fest thing,

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which is pretty popular

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for open source projects.

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But in October in 2019,

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and right about that

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same month,

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I think I saw a pull request

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by another major developer

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who became like this.

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At that point,

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the first Bitcoin

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Core computer

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from our side of the world.

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And it was interesting for me

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because I was like, okay,

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that actually means

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that as possible,

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I'll like, you know,

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like,

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let me just scour

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the repo and see what,

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what I could

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contribute to it.

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And I found this pretty.

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Now it's a trivial change

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in my opinion,

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but at that point

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I thought I was doing

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pretty much

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the the huge

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task undertaking,

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and I was pretty much

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the change to the guy.

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So at the time,

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I really hadn't compiled

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core before that.

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So you got the PR

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involved, me open,

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actually

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compiling core,

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getting into the nitty gritty

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about the protocol itself,

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specifically looking at

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how to actually make changes

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to pull requests

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or trading

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a bunch of other PRS to see

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what the culture was like.

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And then by 2020

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was kind of got merged.

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And then ever

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since then, it's

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been like further

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entrenching myself

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into the Bitcoin space.

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And at that point,

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like college didn't become,

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you know, a huge priority

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because my thinking was,

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this is what I want to do

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with the rest of my life.

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And then

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I see roughly the same year

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when I

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started Recursive

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Capital as well,

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and then 2021

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did some more work

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on protocol development,

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started Carlo

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with Bernard,

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Carlino, a bunch of folks,

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and then Petrus came along.

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So since 2021

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to date, it's

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just been a lot

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more responsibility

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to use over the years,

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which has further entrenched

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both my conviction

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for Bitcoin,

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but also the reason why

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I continue

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to stay in the Bitcoin

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space earlier,

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why I feel

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this is such a huge thing

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that I could do with my life,

307
00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:40,500
as opposed to other things

308
00:05:42,166 --> 00:05:43,291
as super cool.

309
00:05:43,291 --> 00:05:44,416
I mean,

310
00:05:44,416 --> 00:05:45,416
you grew,

311
00:05:45,416 --> 00:05:46,250
you were born

312
00:05:46,250 --> 00:05:47,416
and grew up in Nigeria,

313
00:05:47,416 --> 00:05:48,375
is that right?

314
00:05:48,375 --> 00:05:49,458
Yeah, yeah.

315
00:05:49,458 --> 00:05:52,583
In Lagos or in in Kaduna.

316
00:05:52,583 --> 00:05:53,583
So it's an hour

317
00:05:53,583 --> 00:05:54,375
away from the capital

318
00:05:54,375 --> 00:05:55,125
up north, right.

319
00:05:55,125 --> 00:05:58,125
All right, all right.

320
00:05:58,458 --> 00:05:59,666
And this is so

321
00:05:59,666 --> 00:06:01,250
it's like the, the,

322
00:06:01,250 --> 00:06:02,958
the last place on Earth

323
00:06:02,958 --> 00:06:04,375
where you'd expect

324
00:06:04,375 --> 00:06:05,791
to find a Bitcoin

325
00:06:05,791 --> 00:06:06,625
core developer.

326
00:06:06,625 --> 00:06:07,416
But like this is

327
00:06:07,416 --> 00:06:08,250
this just shows

328
00:06:08,250 --> 00:06:09,208
the power of the,

329
00:06:09,208 --> 00:06:09,833
the network

330
00:06:09,833 --> 00:06:11,583
where we're at everywhere,

331
00:06:11,583 --> 00:06:12,458
you know,

332
00:06:12,458 --> 00:06:13,541
and, yeah,

333
00:06:13,541 --> 00:06:14,708
I visited Nigeria

334
00:06:14,708 --> 00:06:16,250
when I was 18 and,

335
00:06:16,250 --> 00:06:18,250
it was here in Lagos

336
00:06:18,250 --> 00:06:19,291
and because my

337
00:06:19,291 --> 00:06:20,541
dad worked there.

338
00:06:20,541 --> 00:06:21,708
So I was there for a week,

339
00:06:21,708 --> 00:06:24,708
which was a surreal week for,

340
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,416
an 18 year old, absolutely.

341
00:06:31,458 --> 00:06:31,750
No.

342
00:06:31,750 --> 00:06:32,333
So, so,

343
00:06:32,333 --> 00:06:33,333
so how was growing

344
00:06:33,333 --> 00:06:35,458
up in Nigeria and like, the

345
00:06:35,458 --> 00:06:36,083
can you tell us

346
00:06:36,083 --> 00:06:36,833
a bit about that?

347
00:06:36,833 --> 00:06:37,708
And like,

348
00:06:37,708 --> 00:06:39,750
how how did you find

349
00:06:39,750 --> 00:06:40,916
Bitcoin in the first place?

350
00:06:40,916 --> 00:06:41,833
I mean, this whole

351
00:06:42,916 --> 00:06:43,916
the, the story

352
00:06:43,916 --> 00:06:44,750
you told sort of

353
00:06:44,750 --> 00:06:46,333
started at the,

354
00:06:46,333 --> 00:06:48,583
the midpoint.

355
00:06:48,583 --> 00:06:49,916
So, so, so give us,

356
00:06:49,916 --> 00:06:51,375
give us the even longer

357
00:06:51,375 --> 00:06:53,916
version if you, if you will.

358
00:06:53,916 --> 00:06:54,541
Yeah for sure.

359
00:06:54,541 --> 00:06:55,291
I mean, growing up in

360
00:06:55,291 --> 00:06:56,125
Nigeria is pretty

361
00:06:56,125 --> 00:06:57,000
much it makes,

362
00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:57,875
I mean

363
00:06:57,875 --> 00:06:59,333
the countless

364
00:06:59,333 --> 00:07:00,958
200 other million stories

365
00:07:00,958 --> 00:07:02,208
really from the country you

366
00:07:02,208 --> 00:07:03,375
our population,

367
00:07:03,375 --> 00:07:05,291
it's a mix of like,

368
00:07:05,291 --> 00:07:06,125
I'll say this way

369
00:07:06,125 --> 00:07:06,833
faster than the

370
00:07:06,833 --> 00:07:07,708
brought back again.

371
00:07:07,708 --> 00:07:08,583
And I had to choose

372
00:07:08,583 --> 00:07:09,208
where I'd be born.

373
00:07:09,208 --> 00:07:10,208
I still want to be born

374
00:07:10,208 --> 00:07:11,458
in Nigeria again,

375
00:07:11,458 --> 00:07:12,958
but to be Nigerian again,

376
00:07:12,958 --> 00:07:13,791
I think it's it's

377
00:07:13,791 --> 00:07:14,458
a weird mix.

378
00:07:14,458 --> 00:07:15,083
Yes, a lot of

379
00:07:15,083 --> 00:07:16,041
economic challenges

380
00:07:16,041 --> 00:07:17,750
there, a lot of socio

381
00:07:17,750 --> 00:07:18,500
economic challenges,

382
00:07:18,500 --> 00:07:19,500
I should say.

383
00:07:19,500 --> 00:07:21,875
And I think it's interesting.

384
00:07:21,875 --> 00:07:23,625
So the culture, the people,

385
00:07:23,625 --> 00:07:24,333
the food,

386
00:07:24,333 --> 00:07:25,166
everything I think

387
00:07:25,166 --> 00:07:26,125
is probably

388
00:07:26,125 --> 00:07:27,625
one of the best in the world.

389
00:07:27,625 --> 00:07:28,375
And at the same time,

390
00:07:28,375 --> 00:07:28,833
when it comes

391
00:07:28,833 --> 00:07:30,125
to the economic indices

392
00:07:30,125 --> 00:07:31,333
and some of the social issues

393
00:07:31,333 --> 00:07:32,208
that we do have

394
00:07:32,208 --> 00:07:32,916
definitely runs

395
00:07:32,916 --> 00:07:34,166
super low around the world.

396
00:07:34,166 --> 00:07:35,416
So it's kind of a weird

397
00:07:35,416 --> 00:07:36,791
mix between

398
00:07:36,791 --> 00:07:37,250
the people

399
00:07:37,250 --> 00:07:38,291
that have so much issues

400
00:07:38,291 --> 00:07:39,333
and a lot of copying,

401
00:07:39,333 --> 00:07:40,125
which results

402
00:07:40,125 --> 00:07:41,291
in a lot of banter,

403
00:07:41,291 --> 00:07:42,750
how we have, generally

404
00:07:42,750 --> 00:07:44,375
speaking, backgrounds.

405
00:07:44,375 --> 00:07:45,333
And there's also this,

406
00:07:45,333 --> 00:07:45,833
I guess,

407
00:07:45,833 --> 00:07:46,833
this energy about us

408
00:07:46,833 --> 00:07:47,333
when it comes

409
00:07:47,333 --> 00:07:48,458
to being on your feet

410
00:07:48,458 --> 00:07:49,375
and trying to do things

411
00:07:49,375 --> 00:07:49,958
for yourself,

412
00:07:49,958 --> 00:07:51,000
because a lot of things

413
00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:51,416
don't work.

414
00:07:51,416 --> 00:07:51,875
So typically

415
00:07:51,875 --> 00:07:52,375
a lot of people

416
00:07:52,375 --> 00:07:53,250
are brought up.

417
00:07:53,250 --> 00:07:54,291
Same thing in my case,

418
00:07:54,291 --> 00:07:55,375
to kind of be

419
00:07:55,375 --> 00:07:56,958
a bit more full of grit

420
00:07:56,958 --> 00:07:57,875
and kind of ambition

421
00:07:57,875 --> 00:07:58,541
because you're forced

422
00:07:58,541 --> 00:08:00,000
into that circumstance.

423
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,500
So I see with Bitcoin,

424
00:08:01,500 --> 00:08:03,458
it started in 2013, in terms

425
00:08:03,458 --> 00:08:05,458
of hearing about it first,

426
00:08:05,458 --> 00:08:06,833
and at that point I was 14.

427
00:08:06,833 --> 00:08:07,500
It was from

428
00:08:07,500 --> 00:08:08,416
some obscure video

429
00:08:08,416 --> 00:08:09,375
my brother brought back

430
00:08:09,375 --> 00:08:10,583
from YouTube.

431
00:08:10,583 --> 00:08:11,166
I was like, oh, you know,

432
00:08:11,166 --> 00:08:11,875
I've heard about this

433
00:08:11,875 --> 00:08:12,750
Bitcoin thing.

434
00:08:12,750 --> 00:08:13,583
For context, he's

435
00:08:13,583 --> 00:08:14,416
an economics major

436
00:08:14,416 --> 00:08:15,000
at that point

437
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:15,625
was pretty much

438
00:08:15,625 --> 00:08:16,291
fully entrenched

439
00:08:16,291 --> 00:08:17,333
as a gold bug.

440
00:08:17,333 --> 00:08:18,166
So I guess

441
00:08:18,166 --> 00:08:19,083
seeing things like,

442
00:08:19,083 --> 00:08:19,916
you know, the Kaiser report

443
00:08:19,916 --> 00:08:20,375
at that time

444
00:08:20,375 --> 00:08:20,875
was probably

445
00:08:20,875 --> 00:08:21,375
one of the reasons

446
00:08:21,375 --> 00:08:22,416
why he got interested

447
00:08:22,416 --> 00:08:23,708
into Bitcoin Krispy.

448
00:08:23,708 --> 00:08:25,125
So watch the video.

449
00:08:25,125 --> 00:08:25,416
Honestly,

450
00:08:25,416 --> 00:08:25,833
I didn't know

451
00:08:25,833 --> 00:08:26,875
what that was all about

452
00:08:26,875 --> 00:08:27,250
for me.

453
00:08:27,250 --> 00:08:27,583
I thought

454
00:08:27,583 --> 00:08:29,250
it was like this math contest

455
00:08:29,250 --> 00:08:29,958
because it was trying

456
00:08:29,958 --> 00:08:30,833
to explain bitcoin

457
00:08:30,833 --> 00:08:32,125
mining in the video

458
00:08:32,125 --> 00:08:32,458
and all that.

459
00:08:32,458 --> 00:08:32,791
Okay,

460
00:08:32,791 --> 00:08:33,083
I mean,

461
00:08:33,083 --> 00:08:34,333
you could get into this

462
00:08:34,333 --> 00:08:36,000
competition and win coins,

463
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,416
whatever that means.

464
00:08:37,416 --> 00:08:39,500
And then fast forward to

465
00:08:39,500 --> 00:08:40,083
I guess

466
00:08:40,083 --> 00:08:41,833
probably early 2017 or late

467
00:08:41,833 --> 00:08:42,666
2016 was

468
00:08:42,666 --> 00:08:44,000
when he came back again.

469
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:44,500
So at that point

470
00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:45,333
he started working

471
00:08:45,333 --> 00:08:46,083
for the government.

472
00:08:46,083 --> 00:08:48,000
And the reason was because

473
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:49,458
after you finish, college

474
00:08:49,458 --> 00:08:50,125
in Nigeria,

475
00:08:50,125 --> 00:08:51,000
the idea is for you

476
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,166
to serve the country.

477
00:08:52,166 --> 00:08:53,458
So you pretty much get posted

478
00:08:53,458 --> 00:08:54,625
in some part of the country

479
00:08:54,625 --> 00:08:55,583
where you do

480
00:08:55,583 --> 00:08:56,000
either work

481
00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:56,583
for the government

482
00:08:56,583 --> 00:08:57,583
or some sort of agency.

483
00:08:57,583 --> 00:08:58,333
The idea is to have

484
00:08:58,333 --> 00:09:00,041
some sort of national pride

485
00:09:00,041 --> 00:09:00,833
or interest in

486
00:09:00,833 --> 00:09:01,583
the country itself.

487
00:09:01,583 --> 00:09:02,541
So it's kind of requirements.

488
00:09:02,541 --> 00:09:03,833
And what you have for,

489
00:09:03,833 --> 00:09:04,583
other countries

490
00:09:04,583 --> 00:09:05,458
that they do mandatory

491
00:09:05,458 --> 00:09:06,166
military service

492
00:09:06,166 --> 00:09:07,166
and ceremony to service.

493
00:09:07,166 --> 00:09:07,833
We do social

494
00:09:07,833 --> 00:09:09,250
service essentially.

495
00:09:09,250 --> 00:09:10,125
So that happened.

496
00:09:10,125 --> 00:09:10,500
And then

497
00:09:10,500 --> 00:09:11,000
I think they're trying

498
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,625
to get the IBM DNA program,

499
00:09:12,625 --> 00:09:13,750
which is basically this,

500
00:09:13,750 --> 00:09:14,583
shit

501
00:09:14,583 --> 00:09:16,166
coin in-house blockchain

502
00:09:16,166 --> 00:09:17,083
that they built.

503
00:09:17,083 --> 00:09:17,625
So as part of the

504
00:09:17,625 --> 00:09:18,416
reading material,

505
00:09:18,416 --> 00:09:19,291
they are told to,

506
00:09:19,291 --> 00:09:19,500
you know,

507
00:09:19,500 --> 00:09:20,291
take a look at Bitcoin

508
00:09:20,291 --> 00:09:21,666
or some other things.

509
00:09:21,666 --> 00:09:22,625
So he started talking to me

510
00:09:22,625 --> 00:09:23,208
about Bitcoin.

511
00:09:23,208 --> 00:09:24,500
I was like, again,

512
00:09:24,500 --> 00:09:25,166
I know what this is

513
00:09:25,166 --> 00:09:25,625
all about.

514
00:09:25,625 --> 00:09:26,458
So we started

515
00:09:26,458 --> 00:09:27,708
reading what I should see

516
00:09:27,708 --> 00:09:28,791
around that time.

517
00:09:28,791 --> 00:09:29,666
That's when everything

518
00:09:29,666 --> 00:09:31,291
kind of flooding to

519
00:09:31,291 --> 00:09:32,583
guess the entire narrative

520
00:09:32,583 --> 00:09:33,291
I just painted in the

521
00:09:33,291 --> 00:09:35,500
beginning of okay, what else?

522
00:09:35,500 --> 00:09:36,791
Bitcoin specifically.

523
00:09:36,791 --> 00:09:37,208
So a lot of

524
00:09:37,208 --> 00:09:38,083
the articles are from,

525
00:09:38,083 --> 00:09:38,750
I think, hatred.

526
00:09:38,750 --> 00:09:39,875
And at that point,

527
00:09:39,875 --> 00:09:41,333
a lot of medium posts,

528
00:09:41,333 --> 00:09:42,416
a lot of Bitcoin magazine

529
00:09:42,416 --> 00:09:43,375
as well.

530
00:09:43,375 --> 00:09:44,833
A couple of other

531
00:09:44,833 --> 00:09:45,541
other things really

532
00:09:45,541 --> 00:09:46,083
that helped us

533
00:09:46,083 --> 00:09:46,708
probably Twitter,

534
00:09:46,708 --> 00:09:47,416
to be honest with you.

535
00:09:47,416 --> 00:09:48,208
I think I learned

536
00:09:48,208 --> 00:09:49,083
more about Bitcoin

537
00:09:49,083 --> 00:09:50,125
from Twitter than

538
00:09:50,125 --> 00:09:50,875
anything else.

539
00:09:51,958 --> 00:09:53,583
I guess by some of the

540
00:09:53,583 --> 00:09:54,208
reading I did

541
00:09:54,208 --> 00:09:55,083
on the technical side

542
00:09:55,083 --> 00:09:56,666
for what computers are like,

543
00:09:56,666 --> 00:09:57,500
programing and things

544
00:09:57,500 --> 00:09:57,791
like that.

545
00:09:57,791 --> 00:09:59,625
But generally speaking,

546
00:09:59,625 --> 00:10:00,625
all the insider stuff

547
00:10:00,625 --> 00:10:03,458
from folks are on Twitter.

548
00:10:03,458 --> 00:10:03,916
Yeah. Let's.

549
00:10:03,916 --> 00:10:04,458
Cool.

550
00:10:04,458 --> 00:10:05,791
Hacker, you mentioned hacker

551
00:10:05,791 --> 00:10:07,291
noon there. That's, Yeah.

552
00:10:07,291 --> 00:10:08,416
Funnily enough, that's

553
00:10:08,416 --> 00:10:09,333
where I started.

554
00:10:09,333 --> 00:10:10,916
Like I published my

555
00:10:10,916 --> 00:10:12,166
that's the first thing

556
00:10:12,166 --> 00:10:13,416
that, like, picked me up

557
00:10:13,416 --> 00:10:14,041
and published

558
00:10:14,041 --> 00:10:15,583
my articles like,

559
00:10:15,583 --> 00:10:16,375
it's like a media

560
00:10:16,375 --> 00:10:17,166
magazine, right.

561
00:10:17,166 --> 00:10:18,333
But now it's it's

562
00:10:18,333 --> 00:10:19,500
shit coin and stuff,

563
00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:21,000
and then unfortunately.

564
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:22,250
Yeah,

565
00:10:22,250 --> 00:10:23,166
like everything else

566
00:10:23,166 --> 00:10:24,083
from that era

567
00:10:24,083 --> 00:10:25,500
seems like everything

568
00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:26,583
turned into shit

569
00:10:26,583 --> 00:10:28,208
at some point,

570
00:10:28,208 --> 00:10:29,791
especially media.

571
00:10:29,791 --> 00:10:31,458
Yeah, yeah.

572
00:10:31,458 --> 00:10:31,958
No, but,

573
00:10:31,958 --> 00:10:33,458
I mean, super cool story

574
00:10:33,458 --> 00:10:35,666
and I can relate to, like,

575
00:10:35,666 --> 00:10:37,500
what I remember from Nigeria,

576
00:10:37,500 --> 00:10:38,333
what I remember

577
00:10:38,333 --> 00:10:39,375
what my dad stories

578
00:10:39,375 --> 00:10:40,458
were like, like,

579
00:10:40,458 --> 00:10:42,208
it's like these two worlds,

580
00:10:42,208 --> 00:10:42,416
right?

581
00:10:42,416 --> 00:10:43,583
Because, you,

582
00:10:43,583 --> 00:10:44,083
as you say,

583
00:10:44,083 --> 00:10:45,333
you have all the socio

584
00:10:45,333 --> 00:10:46,791
economic problems and stuff

585
00:10:46,791 --> 00:10:47,250
and you can

586
00:10:47,250 --> 00:10:48,708
literally see people,

587
00:10:48,708 --> 00:10:50,500
begging on the streets

588
00:10:50,500 --> 00:10:50,875
and stuff.

589
00:10:50,875 --> 00:10:51,916
But everyone's super

590
00:10:51,916 --> 00:10:52,708
happy everywhere,

591
00:10:52,708 --> 00:10:53,250
and everyone's

592
00:10:53,250 --> 00:10:54,375
super nice and like,

593
00:10:54,375 --> 00:10:55,750
they have these big Africa

594
00:10:55,750 --> 00:10:57,208
smiles everywhere, you know,

595
00:10:57,208 --> 00:10:59,083
and they feel very welcome.

596
00:10:59,083 --> 00:11:00,125
And at the same time,

597
00:11:00,125 --> 00:11:01,666
it's kind of chaotic.

598
00:11:01,666 --> 00:11:02,875
Yeah.

599
00:11:02,875 --> 00:11:03,750
So,

600
00:11:03,750 --> 00:11:05,541
so,

601
00:11:05,541 --> 00:11:06,333
let's get into

602
00:11:06,333 --> 00:11:07,166
the rest of the story.

603
00:11:07,166 --> 00:11:07,750
You were like, what?

604
00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:08,458
What happened

605
00:11:08,458 --> 00:11:09,708
then after

606
00:11:09,708 --> 00:11:10,583
after your Bitcoin

607
00:11:10,583 --> 00:11:12,500
Core contribution?

608
00:11:12,500 --> 00:11:14,916
You you were discovered

609
00:11:14,916 --> 00:11:16,166
by other Bitcoiners,

610
00:11:16,166 --> 00:11:18,416
I guess, and your talent was,

611
00:11:18,416 --> 00:11:20,625
is now utilized elsewhere.

612
00:11:20,625 --> 00:11:20,875
So.

613
00:11:20,875 --> 00:11:21,958
So give us the rest of

614
00:11:21,958 --> 00:11:23,125
the story. What happens next?

615
00:11:24,083 --> 00:11:24,416
Oh, yeah.

616
00:11:24,416 --> 00:11:25,166
So in

617
00:11:25,166 --> 00:11:26,500
2020 was when

618
00:11:26,500 --> 00:11:27,083
I started doing

619
00:11:27,083 --> 00:11:28,291
a lot more work around,

620
00:11:28,291 --> 00:11:29,625
protocol development.

621
00:11:29,625 --> 00:11:31,125
So specifically contributing

622
00:11:31,125 --> 00:11:32,833
to doing PR reviews,

623
00:11:32,833 --> 00:11:34,000
I think right about that

624
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:34,500
C times

625
00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:35,791
when I met other Bitcoiners

626
00:11:35,791 --> 00:11:37,166
because I retrenching myself

627
00:11:37,166 --> 00:11:37,916
in Twitter, follow

628
00:11:37,916 --> 00:11:38,791
pretty much

629
00:11:38,791 --> 00:11:39,625
anyone that I thought

630
00:11:39,625 --> 00:11:40,708
was involved with Bitcoin.

631
00:11:40,708 --> 00:11:41,666
And at that point

632
00:11:41,666 --> 00:11:42,625
my thinking was

633
00:11:42,625 --> 00:11:44,208
I get into the space

634
00:11:44,208 --> 00:11:44,666
as a pseudo

635
00:11:44,666 --> 00:11:45,708
anonymous developer.

636
00:11:45,708 --> 00:11:48,000
So at this whole cartoon,

637
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:48,916
a big character

638
00:11:48,916 --> 00:11:49,666
that I was going around

639
00:11:49,666 --> 00:11:50,250
with the.

640
00:11:50,250 --> 00:11:51,041
So, I mean,

641
00:11:51,041 --> 00:11:51,583
bunch of folks

642
00:11:51,583 --> 00:11:52,500
that knew me from that era

643
00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:53,125
probably remember

644
00:11:53,125 --> 00:11:53,666
that graphic,

645
00:11:53,666 --> 00:11:55,000
but that was the intention.

646
00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,208
I clearly failed,

647
00:11:56,208 --> 00:11:57,791
but definitely learned a lot.

648
00:11:57,791 --> 00:11:59,333
So all I could be sued.

649
00:11:59,333 --> 00:11:59,791
Anonymous

650
00:11:59,791 --> 00:12:00,958
I definitely think

651
00:12:00,958 --> 00:12:02,458
could be a lot more fruitful

652
00:12:02,458 --> 00:12:03,750
that the attempt I had.

653
00:12:03,750 --> 00:12:04,375
So I met up

654
00:12:04,375 --> 00:12:04,708
with a

655
00:12:04,708 --> 00:12:05,791
whole bunch of bitcoiners.

656
00:12:05,791 --> 00:12:07,250
The primary ones were like

657
00:12:07,250 --> 00:12:08,250
folks like Bernard

658
00:12:08,250 --> 00:12:09,083
who's involved

659
00:12:09,083 --> 00:12:10,958
with, this yours.

660
00:12:10,958 --> 00:12:12,083
So you have been up.

661
00:12:12,083 --> 00:12:12,833
And at that point

662
00:12:12,833 --> 00:12:13,166
we were really

663
00:12:13,166 --> 00:12:14,125
just exchanging

664
00:12:14,125 --> 00:12:14,541
a whole bunch

665
00:12:14,541 --> 00:12:15,625
of DMs on Twitter.

666
00:12:15,625 --> 00:12:16,833
And funny enough,

667
00:12:16,833 --> 00:12:17,916
I think a year or two

668
00:12:17,916 --> 00:12:19,416
after we first

669
00:12:19,416 --> 00:12:20,833
started speaking,

670
00:12:20,833 --> 00:12:21,416
you mentioned that

671
00:12:21,416 --> 00:12:22,125
he thought of us as,

672
00:12:22,125 --> 00:12:24,000
oh, 30 year old programmer

673
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,291
that he was talking to

674
00:12:25,291 --> 00:12:26,000
and he was

675
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:26,791
also simultaneously

676
00:12:26,791 --> 00:12:27,791
talking to our older brother

677
00:12:27,791 --> 00:12:28,250
at the time.

678
00:12:28,250 --> 00:12:29,708
But I only figured that out

679
00:12:29,708 --> 00:12:30,208
like the year

680
00:12:30,208 --> 00:12:31,125
after we're talking.

681
00:12:31,125 --> 00:12:32,791
So I guess at that point,

682
00:12:32,791 --> 00:12:34,375
in terms of folks

683
00:12:34,375 --> 00:12:35,291
knowing about me

684
00:12:35,291 --> 00:12:35,875
was probably

685
00:12:35,875 --> 00:12:37,333
as a result of Bernard,

686
00:12:37,333 --> 00:12:38,458
I think he shot this,

687
00:12:38,458 --> 00:12:40,166
I think this tweet,

688
00:12:40,166 --> 00:12:42,041
when I turned 22,

689
00:12:42,041 --> 00:12:43,000
I think

690
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:43,875
saying, you know, here's

691
00:12:43,875 --> 00:12:44,791
this quote, developer

692
00:12:44,791 --> 00:12:45,541
from Nigeria,

693
00:12:45,541 --> 00:12:46,083
blah, blah, blah

694
00:12:46,083 --> 00:12:46,500
and all that.

695
00:12:46,500 --> 00:12:47,500
So I see in

696
00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:48,375
terms of spotlighting,

697
00:12:48,375 --> 00:12:49,500
I was probably that paired

698
00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:50,041
with, you know,

699
00:12:50,041 --> 00:12:50,958
I think when,

700
00:12:52,166 --> 00:12:53,208
and the folks at Paxful

701
00:12:53,208 --> 00:12:54,208
came to major as well.

702
00:12:54,208 --> 00:12:56,041
So a lot of tourism

703
00:12:56,041 --> 00:12:58,000
when I got Doxed, I guess.

704
00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,041
So a lot of that happened.

705
00:12:59,041 --> 00:13:01,125
And then I see subsequent,

706
00:13:01,125 --> 00:13:02,041
subsequent to

707
00:13:02,041 --> 00:13:03,291
that was getting involved

708
00:13:03,291 --> 00:13:03,625
in the

709
00:13:03,625 --> 00:13:04,916
to include study groups.

710
00:13:04,916 --> 00:13:06,041
So at that point

711
00:13:06,041 --> 00:13:06,791
I was post Covid,

712
00:13:06,791 --> 00:13:07,458
so they canceled

713
00:13:07,458 --> 00:13:08,333
all the in-person stuff.

714
00:13:08,333 --> 00:13:09,375
So all they had was

715
00:13:09,375 --> 00:13:09,958
a study group.

716
00:13:09,958 --> 00:13:11,041
So I got into that one,

717
00:13:11,041 --> 00:13:11,791
I think

718
00:13:11,791 --> 00:13:13,833
I think 2021 or 2025

719
00:13:13,833 --> 00:13:15,416
called for the lightning one

720
00:13:15,416 --> 00:13:16,208
and then the Bitcoin

721
00:13:16,208 --> 00:13:16,833
one afterwards.

722
00:13:16,833 --> 00:13:17,875
So I met up

723
00:13:17,875 --> 00:13:18,833
with a whole bunch of folks

724
00:13:18,833 --> 00:13:20,208
that were involved

725
00:13:20,208 --> 00:13:20,958
in the Bitcoin space.

726
00:13:20,958 --> 00:13:23,000
Folks like the merge,

727
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,625
folks like

728
00:13:24,625 --> 00:13:25,458
a bunch of folks

729
00:13:25,458 --> 00:13:26,333
actually that are on that.

730
00:13:26,333 --> 00:13:27,416
I think of it, even the folks

731
00:13:27,416 --> 00:13:28,625
from the wallet as well.

732
00:13:28,625 --> 00:13:30,375
So I that's kind of where

733
00:13:30,375 --> 00:13:31,833
I got in transfer there.

734
00:13:31,833 --> 00:13:34,000
And then I think 2022 onwards

735
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,125
after the hobby trust of

736
00:13:35,125 --> 00:13:36,541
I got to meet or bitcoin

737
00:13:36,541 --> 00:13:37,166
or especially folks

738
00:13:37,166 --> 00:13:38,125
like Carla

739
00:13:38,125 --> 00:13:38,791
and some of the others.

740
00:13:38,791 --> 00:13:39,875
So I see

741
00:13:39,875 --> 00:13:40,375
it was kind of

742
00:13:40,375 --> 00:13:41,708
an interesting tale in terms

743
00:13:41,708 --> 00:13:43,500
of talking to a few folks,

744
00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:43,916
and then that

745
00:13:43,916 --> 00:13:44,666
kind of bubbled up

746
00:13:44,666 --> 00:13:45,791
into talking

747
00:13:45,791 --> 00:13:47,125
with a lot of other folks,

748
00:13:47,125 --> 00:13:48,541
and then Carla came along

749
00:13:48,541 --> 00:13:49,375
and a whole bunch of stuff.

750
00:13:49,375 --> 00:13:51,625
So it's kind of a mix of

751
00:13:51,625 --> 00:13:53,000
further entrenching myself

752
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,166
as sort of a few

753
00:13:54,166 --> 00:13:55,166
priorities initially.

754
00:13:55,166 --> 00:13:56,083
So it

755
00:13:56,083 --> 00:13:57,208
was kind of how it evolved.

756
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:00,375
All right.

757
00:14:00,375 --> 00:14:01,708
And you're now the

758
00:14:01,708 --> 00:14:03,333
CEO of B trust.

759
00:14:03,333 --> 00:14:04,708
So what is B trust like,

760
00:14:04,708 --> 00:14:05,375
can you give us

761
00:14:05,375 --> 00:14:06,833
the Tldr on B trust

762
00:14:06,833 --> 00:14:08,166
and what you do.

763
00:14:08,166 --> 00:14:08,583
Oh yeah.

764
00:14:08,583 --> 00:14:09,208
So I mean it

765
00:14:09,208 --> 00:14:09,833
first started

766
00:14:09,833 --> 00:14:10,708
as an initiative

767
00:14:10,708 --> 00:14:13,416
by Jack really to propel

768
00:14:13,416 --> 00:14:15,416
Bitcoin development in Africa

769
00:14:15,416 --> 00:14:16,250
and India.

770
00:14:16,250 --> 00:14:16,583
Because at the

771
00:14:16,583 --> 00:14:17,458
time for context,

772
00:14:17,458 --> 00:14:18,458
there are a lot of issues

773
00:14:18,458 --> 00:14:18,916
with regards

774
00:14:18,916 --> 00:14:19,791
to both regulation

775
00:14:19,791 --> 00:14:21,250
as well as just ease of use.

776
00:14:21,250 --> 00:14:22,291
And I think

777
00:14:22,291 --> 00:14:23,333
adoption wise too,

778
00:14:23,333 --> 00:14:25,083
we were still topping

779
00:14:25,083 --> 00:14:26,125
charts put up

780
00:14:26,125 --> 00:14:27,375
with continents, actually

781
00:14:27,375 --> 00:14:29,125
continents or continent.

782
00:14:29,125 --> 00:14:30,125
And the thinking for him

783
00:14:30,125 --> 00:14:31,083
was for Bitcoin

784
00:14:31,083 --> 00:14:31,791
to get to the speed

785
00:14:31,791 --> 00:14:32,458
that it needs to be

786
00:14:32,458 --> 00:14:33,333
in terms of resilience,

787
00:14:33,333 --> 00:14:33,833
and all of that

788
00:14:33,833 --> 00:14:34,541
will need to have

789
00:14:34,541 --> 00:14:35,791
critical mass of developers

790
00:14:35,791 --> 00:14:36,541
from parts of the world

791
00:14:36,541 --> 00:14:37,750
that are using it

792
00:14:37,750 --> 00:14:38,333
and mimic

793
00:14:38,333 --> 00:14:39,000
that same sort

794
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:39,916
of anti fragility

795
00:14:39,916 --> 00:14:40,458
that we're talking

796
00:14:40,458 --> 00:14:40,958
about in terms

797
00:14:40,958 --> 00:14:41,583
just people out

798
00:14:41,583 --> 00:14:43,166
in the rugged regions.

799
00:14:43,166 --> 00:14:44,333
Just for our listeners,

800
00:14:44,333 --> 00:14:44,875
by Jack,

801
00:14:44,875 --> 00:14:45,958
you mean Jack Dorsey,

802
00:14:45,958 --> 00:14:46,583
of course.

803
00:14:46,583 --> 00:14:47,541
Oh yeah.

804
00:14:47,541 --> 00:14:49,208
Twitter clarify that.

805
00:14:49,208 --> 00:14:50,375
Yeah.

806
00:14:50,375 --> 00:14:52,708
It's and it evolved

807
00:14:52,708 --> 00:14:53,833
into essentially

808
00:14:53,833 --> 00:14:54,750
especially after

809
00:14:54,750 --> 00:14:55,916
having the board

810
00:14:55,916 --> 00:14:57,083
into a simple mission

811
00:14:57,083 --> 00:14:58,083
which is

812
00:14:58,083 --> 00:14:59,208
essentially decentralizing

813
00:14:59,208 --> 00:14:59,916
Bitcoin development

814
00:14:59,916 --> 00:15:00,833
in the Global South.

815
00:15:00,833 --> 00:15:01,583
So specifically

816
00:15:01,583 --> 00:15:02,791
regions in Africa

817
00:15:02,791 --> 00:15:03,250
and yeah,

818
00:15:03,250 --> 00:15:04,583
some of these other parts.

819
00:15:04,583 --> 00:15:05,333
And during the make up

820
00:15:05,333 --> 00:15:05,958
of the board,

821
00:15:05,958 --> 00:15:07,166
having been heavily

822
00:15:07,166 --> 00:15:08,583
Nigerian and heavily African,

823
00:15:08,583 --> 00:15:08,916
I should say,

824
00:15:08,916 --> 00:15:09,958
with all four board members,

825
00:15:09,958 --> 00:15:10,583
including myself,

826
00:15:10,583 --> 00:15:11,791
being from Africa

827
00:15:11,791 --> 00:15:12,541
made sense for us

828
00:15:12,541 --> 00:15:13,833
to start on the continent

829
00:15:13,833 --> 00:15:15,083
that were privy to,

830
00:15:15,083 --> 00:15:16,000
which is Africa,

831
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,166
and then gradually

832
00:15:17,166 --> 00:15:18,375
expand beyond that.

833
00:15:18,375 --> 00:15:19,416
So in terms of sourcing

834
00:15:19,416 --> 00:15:19,916
mission, it's

835
00:15:19,916 --> 00:15:20,250
definitely to

836
00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:21,416
decentralize development

837
00:15:21,416 --> 00:15:22,208
in regions

838
00:15:22,208 --> 00:15:23,541
where they're not as common.

839
00:15:23,541 --> 00:15:24,458
And now, so far

840
00:15:24,458 --> 00:15:26,250
since we launched in 2021,

841
00:15:26,250 --> 00:15:28,333
I think we now have,

842
00:15:28,333 --> 00:15:29,250
long term developers

843
00:15:29,250 --> 00:15:29,875
that were supporting

844
00:15:29,875 --> 00:15:30,583
my coworkers.

845
00:15:30,583 --> 00:15:32,208
It has been super incredible.

846
00:15:32,208 --> 00:15:33,083
Bitcoin core working

847
00:15:33,083 --> 00:15:34,000
on Mempool stash,

848
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,833
even stuff on mining,

849
00:15:35,833 --> 00:15:36,708
as well as Novo,

850
00:15:36,708 --> 00:15:37,708
who's also working on Bitcoin

851
00:15:37,708 --> 00:15:38,333
Core, specifically

852
00:15:38,333 --> 00:15:39,250
silent payments.

853
00:15:39,250 --> 00:15:40,500
We also have another long

854
00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:42,083
term developer who's,

855
00:15:42,083 --> 00:15:43,625
female are the only one

856
00:15:43,625 --> 00:15:44,583
truly on the continent,

857
00:15:44,583 --> 00:15:45,333
is also working

858
00:15:45,333 --> 00:15:46,166
on the Lightning Network.

859
00:15:46,166 --> 00:15:48,125
We also have,

860
00:15:48,125 --> 00:15:48,541
to bet

861
00:15:48,541 --> 00:15:50,208
resources on BitPay server.

862
00:15:50,208 --> 00:15:51,375
I also have another,

863
00:15:51,375 --> 00:15:53,041
another person

864
00:15:53,041 --> 00:15:54,000
was on the started groundwork

865
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,708
team on, I think, polar,

866
00:15:56,708 --> 00:15:57,958
as well as another one

867
00:15:57,958 --> 00:15:58,625
who's Duncan

868
00:15:58,625 --> 00:15:59,291
working on

869
00:15:59,291 --> 00:15:59,791
the Lightning

870
00:15:59,791 --> 00:16:00,416
Network as well.

871
00:16:00,416 --> 00:16:01,583
So we have roughly around

872
00:16:01,583 --> 00:16:02,125
six folks

873
00:16:02,125 --> 00:16:02,833
that are currently

874
00:16:02,833 --> 00:16:03,875
full time grants.

875
00:16:03,875 --> 00:16:04,583
So since then, it's

876
00:16:04,583 --> 00:16:05,125
definitely evolved

877
00:16:05,125 --> 00:16:07,708
from just a basic idea

878
00:16:07,708 --> 00:16:08,375
that there are

879
00:16:08,375 --> 00:16:09,083
these developers

880
00:16:09,083 --> 00:16:09,750
that we can support

881
00:16:09,750 --> 00:16:10,500
on the continent

882
00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:11,166
and other parts

883
00:16:11,166 --> 00:16:12,500
to supporting

884
00:16:12,500 --> 00:16:13,916
a lot of these developers,

885
00:16:13,916 --> 00:16:14,416
making them,

886
00:16:14,416 --> 00:16:14,625
you know,

887
00:16:14,625 --> 00:16:15,750
the first class of developers

888
00:16:15,750 --> 00:16:16,708
coming out of this continent

889
00:16:16,708 --> 00:16:18,083
that have jobs fully

890
00:16:18,083 --> 00:16:18,916
working on Bitcoin,

891
00:16:18,916 --> 00:16:20,208
specifically open source,

892
00:16:20,208 --> 00:16:21,125
because I should clarify it

893
00:16:21,125 --> 00:16:21,958
in terms of support.

894
00:16:21,958 --> 00:16:23,208
Be just isn't,

895
00:16:23,208 --> 00:16:26,166
built to support ventures?

896
00:16:26,166 --> 00:16:27,000
All we're doing is

897
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:27,500
essentially

898
00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:28,375
centralized development

899
00:16:28,375 --> 00:16:29,458
specifically for Bitcoin,

900
00:16:29,458 --> 00:16:31,166
specifically open source.

901
00:16:31,166 --> 00:16:31,458
So that's

902
00:16:31,458 --> 00:16:32,333
where the core of our,

903
00:16:32,333 --> 00:16:33,166
activities are.

904
00:16:33,166 --> 00:16:34,333
So in 2023

905
00:16:34,333 --> 00:16:36,041
is when we took over

906
00:16:36,041 --> 00:16:37,250
the gala program,

907
00:16:37,250 --> 00:16:38,041
kind of just made it

908
00:16:38,041 --> 00:16:38,791
an internal pipeline

909
00:16:38,791 --> 00:16:39,375
for ourselves

910
00:16:39,375 --> 00:16:39,916
just to make sure

911
00:16:39,916 --> 00:16:41,208
everything streamlined.

912
00:16:41,208 --> 00:16:42,333
So started doing a lot more,

913
00:16:42,333 --> 00:16:43,291
capacity building.

914
00:16:43,291 --> 00:16:44,333
So since then, to date,

915
00:16:44,333 --> 00:16:45,000
I think we've changed

916
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,375
probably close to

917
00:16:46,375 --> 00:16:47,791
goes to 500 folks in terms

918
00:16:47,791 --> 00:16:49,000
of being involved,

919
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:49,833
some part of the other,

920
00:16:49,833 --> 00:16:50,208
whether it's

921
00:16:50,208 --> 00:16:50,916
mustering Bitcoin

922
00:16:50,916 --> 00:16:51,208
all the way

923
00:16:51,208 --> 00:16:53,166
up to the residents who are,

924
00:16:53,166 --> 00:16:54,291
I guess, the

925
00:16:54,291 --> 00:16:55,333
fellowship that we call it,

926
00:16:55,333 --> 00:16:56,125
which is three months

927
00:16:56,125 --> 00:16:57,083
intensive all the way up

928
00:16:57,083 --> 00:16:58,083
to getting a grant.

929
00:16:58,083 --> 00:16:58,458
So right now

930
00:16:58,458 --> 00:16:58,916
we're set up to

931
00:16:58,916 --> 00:16:59,541
do three things.

932
00:16:59,541 --> 00:17:00,625
So one is supporting

933
00:17:00,625 --> 00:17:01,916
developer education programs.

934
00:17:01,916 --> 00:17:02,500
So we have one

935
00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:03,250
internal called B

936
00:17:03,250 --> 00:17:03,875
Trust Builders

937
00:17:03,875 --> 00:17:05,541
which was previously caller.

938
00:17:05,541 --> 00:17:06,458
And then we also support

939
00:17:06,458 --> 00:17:07,375
other initiatives

940
00:17:07,375 --> 00:17:08,708
like Big Shala in India

941
00:17:08,708 --> 00:17:09,625
as well as the brightest

942
00:17:09,625 --> 00:17:11,333
Satoshi in Latin America.

943
00:17:11,333 --> 00:17:12,541
We also do conference

944
00:17:12,541 --> 00:17:13,708
okay sponsorships.

945
00:17:13,708 --> 00:17:14,666
So sponsor

946
00:17:14,666 --> 00:17:15,750
the Africa Bitcoin Conference

947
00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:16,583
for example size

948
00:17:16,583 --> 00:17:17,583
conf as well.

949
00:17:17,583 --> 00:17:18,541
Even adopting Bitcoin

950
00:17:18,541 --> 00:17:20,125
in Cape Town last year.

951
00:17:20,125 --> 00:17:21,583
And the last type of grants

952
00:17:21,583 --> 00:17:23,083
that we do is three fold.

953
00:17:23,083 --> 00:17:24,000
I should say two fold.

954
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,166
One is the startup grants.

955
00:17:26,166 --> 00:17:27,125
The idea was that

956
00:17:27,125 --> 00:17:27,583
it was born

957
00:17:27,583 --> 00:17:28,583
out of the long term grants

958
00:17:28,583 --> 00:17:28,916
that we did,

959
00:17:28,916 --> 00:17:30,333
because our thinking was,

960
00:17:30,333 --> 00:17:31,500
if we're still

961
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:32,500
early in the stage,

962
00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:33,083
we are going to have

963
00:17:33,083 --> 00:17:33,666
a lot of people

964
00:17:33,666 --> 00:17:34,250
that are working

965
00:17:34,250 --> 00:17:35,250
long term on Bitcoin

966
00:17:35,250 --> 00:17:36,041
that have that

967
00:17:36,041 --> 00:17:36,875
type of track record.

968
00:17:36,875 --> 00:17:38,208
So the idea is to have

969
00:17:38,208 --> 00:17:39,541
this kind of discovery grant

970
00:17:39,541 --> 00:17:40,083
where they have

971
00:17:40,083 --> 00:17:40,750
three months,

972
00:17:40,750 --> 00:17:41,500
actually six months,

973
00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:42,666
essentially where they

974
00:17:42,666 --> 00:17:44,000
kind of look for a niche

975
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,041
within Bitcoin Core

976
00:17:45,041 --> 00:17:46,083
or some other project

977
00:17:46,083 --> 00:17:47,291
related to Bitcoin,

978
00:17:47,291 --> 00:17:47,875
and then they

979
00:17:47,875 --> 00:17:48,791
gradually get into long

980
00:17:48,791 --> 00:17:49,208
term grants.

981
00:17:49,208 --> 00:17:50,666
So we had folks like abacus

982
00:17:50,666 --> 00:17:51,500
might as well

983
00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:51,833
start

984
00:17:51,833 --> 00:17:52,875
with that novel as well.

985
00:17:52,875 --> 00:17:54,958
So I say like half

986
00:17:54,958 --> 00:17:56,166
or probably over 60

987
00:17:56,166 --> 00:17:57,208
or 70% of the people

988
00:17:57,208 --> 00:17:58,166
creative long term grant

989
00:17:58,166 --> 00:17:59,625
started from that pipeline.

990
00:17:59,625 --> 00:18:00,125
And we also have

991
00:18:00,125 --> 00:18:00,833
the long term grants,

992
00:18:00,833 --> 00:18:01,708
which start from a year

993
00:18:01,708 --> 00:18:02,791
and then could be renewed for

994
00:18:02,791 --> 00:18:03,958
two years plus.

995
00:18:03,958 --> 00:18:05,250
So those three are kind

996
00:18:05,250 --> 00:18:06,375
of the main engine

997
00:18:06,375 --> 00:18:07,208
behind for trust.

998
00:18:07,208 --> 00:18:07,666
And in terms

999
00:18:07,666 --> 00:18:08,291
of moving forward

1000
00:18:08,291 --> 00:18:10,083
2025, it's a lot of,

1001
00:18:10,083 --> 00:18:11,541
I guess, streamlining

1002
00:18:11,541 --> 00:18:12,083
that process

1003
00:18:12,083 --> 00:18:12,833
with subcommittees

1004
00:18:12,833 --> 00:18:13,916
similar to how open science

1005
00:18:13,916 --> 00:18:15,750
evaluates, proposals.

1006
00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:15,958
That way

1007
00:18:15,958 --> 00:18:16,625
it's not subject

1008
00:18:16,625 --> 00:18:17,291
to the discretion

1009
00:18:17,291 --> 00:18:17,791
of the board

1010
00:18:17,791 --> 00:18:18,500
or potentially

1011
00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:20,041
some sort of foul play.

1012
00:18:20,041 --> 00:18:21,083
So a lot of a lot of work

1013
00:18:21,083 --> 00:18:21,541
around that,

1014
00:18:21,541 --> 00:18:22,375
a lot of work around

1015
00:18:22,375 --> 00:18:23,375
open source, specifically

1016
00:18:23,375 --> 00:18:24,875
drilling into

1017
00:18:24,875 --> 00:18:25,416
having a very

1018
00:18:25,416 --> 00:18:26,291
effective pipeline

1019
00:18:26,291 --> 00:18:27,125
or filter for that.

1020
00:18:27,125 --> 00:18:28,416
So that's why we decided

1021
00:18:28,416 --> 00:18:29,666
to also do the POS program,

1022
00:18:29,666 --> 00:18:30,833
which is initiative

1023
00:18:30,833 --> 00:18:31,500
started by chain.

1024
00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:31,791
Couldn't

1025
00:18:31,791 --> 00:18:32,750
a whole bunch of other folks

1026
00:18:32,750 --> 00:18:33,416
who trying to refine

1027
00:18:33,416 --> 00:18:34,458
the whole process.

1028
00:18:34,458 --> 00:18:34,916
Later in the year,

1029
00:18:34,916 --> 00:18:35,333
we're going to do

1030
00:18:35,333 --> 00:18:36,750
our own program, our own

1031
00:18:38,375 --> 00:18:39,458
our own program, as well

1032
00:18:39,458 --> 00:18:40,791
as part of the court five.

1033
00:18:40,791 --> 00:18:41,916
So this one's currently code

1034
00:18:41,916 --> 00:18:42,375
four is going to

1035
00:18:42,375 --> 00:18:43,500
start on Monday.

1036
00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:44,458
And the idea is simple,

1037
00:18:44,458 --> 00:18:45,458
like get a whole

1038
00:18:45,458 --> 00:18:46,000
bunch of folks

1039
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,583
interested in Bitcoin,

1040
00:18:47,583 --> 00:18:48,791
help them navigate the space.

1041
00:18:48,791 --> 00:18:50,500
So we just essentially now

1042
00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:50,875
set up

1043
00:18:50,875 --> 00:18:52,541
as both the starting point

1044
00:18:52,541 --> 00:18:53,333
and the destination

1045
00:18:53,333 --> 00:18:54,166
for developers,

1046
00:18:54,166 --> 00:18:54,958
specifically in Africa

1047
00:18:54,958 --> 00:18:55,833
and all these other regions

1048
00:18:55,833 --> 00:18:58,541
that we serve.

1049
00:18:58,541 --> 00:18:59,041
Yeah. Cool.

1050
00:18:59,041 --> 00:19:00,666
You mentioned Bit Chalet

1051
00:19:00,666 --> 00:19:01,250
in India.

1052
00:19:01,250 --> 00:19:02,083
They, by

1053
00:19:02,083 --> 00:19:03,916
the way, are doing a,

1054
00:19:03,916 --> 00:19:07,083
a thorough read of, of,

1055
00:19:07,083 --> 00:19:08,000
Bitcoin, the inverse

1056
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,291
of cloud World book.

1057
00:19:09,291 --> 00:19:11,041
So, so I'm enjoying

1058
00:19:11,041 --> 00:19:12,166
hopping in and listening

1059
00:19:12,166 --> 00:19:13,666
to that every now and then.

1060
00:19:13,666 --> 00:19:15,291
It's wonderful to hear it

1061
00:19:15,291 --> 00:19:15,958
read out

1062
00:19:15,958 --> 00:19:16,916
and explained

1063
00:19:16,916 --> 00:19:18,916
in in an Indian accent.

1064
00:19:18,916 --> 00:19:20,666
It's one in Ireland

1065
00:19:20,666 --> 00:19:21,250
that, that

1066
00:19:21,250 --> 00:19:22,750
that is all on YouTube.

1067
00:19:22,750 --> 00:19:23,500
And like,

1068
00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:24,083
I'll,

1069
00:19:24,083 --> 00:19:26,000
I'll do a big post about it

1070
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,166
when, whenever

1071
00:19:27,166 --> 00:19:28,291
the series is done.

1072
00:19:28,291 --> 00:19:29,583
But they're doing it

1073
00:19:29,583 --> 00:19:30,125
once a week.

1074
00:19:30,125 --> 00:19:31,916
So that's a great project.

1075
00:19:31,916 --> 00:19:33,958
So, so yeah.

1076
00:19:33,958 --> 00:19:35,541
Bitcoin in Africa in general

1077
00:19:35,541 --> 00:19:37,833
and in Nigeria specifically.

1078
00:19:37,833 --> 00:19:40,833
Like, what what

1079
00:19:40,833 --> 00:19:43,000
let's start somewhere like

1080
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,958
how is adoption in Nigeria?

1081
00:19:44,958 --> 00:19:45,958
The things I've heard from

1082
00:19:45,958 --> 00:19:46,916
Nigeria is like

1083
00:19:46,916 --> 00:19:47,875
every other year

1084
00:19:47,875 --> 00:19:48,583
they ban it

1085
00:19:48,583 --> 00:19:50,208
and every other year they

1086
00:19:50,208 --> 00:19:51,083
they embrace it.

1087
00:19:51,083 --> 00:19:52,541
And this goes back and forth.

1088
00:19:52,541 --> 00:19:52,833
Right.

1089
00:19:52,833 --> 00:19:53,958
And like it's

1090
00:19:53,958 --> 00:19:55,375
very schizophrenic.

1091
00:19:55,375 --> 00:19:56,458
So what's going on there.

1092
00:19:57,541 --> 00:19:58,583
You know a lot.

1093
00:19:58,583 --> 00:19:59,333
And I

1094
00:19:59,333 --> 00:19:59,583
say for

1095
00:19:59,583 --> 00:20:01,625
context, the first ban

1096
00:20:01,625 --> 00:20:02,708
or I should say quasi

1097
00:20:02,708 --> 00:20:04,458
ban was in, I believe, 2021

1098
00:20:04,458 --> 00:20:06,583
or early 2022.

1099
00:20:06,583 --> 00:20:08,500
And the idea was, again,

1100
00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:09,833
more context.

1101
00:20:09,833 --> 00:20:11,333
Bitcoin was introduced

1102
00:20:11,333 --> 00:20:12,083
into the continent,

1103
00:20:12,083 --> 00:20:13,666
specifically in Africa,

1104
00:20:13,666 --> 00:20:15,250
specifically in Nigeria,

1105
00:20:15,250 --> 00:20:16,833
as kind of a

1106
00:20:16,833 --> 00:20:17,333
part of,

1107
00:20:17,333 --> 00:20:18,416
I guess,

1108
00:20:18,416 --> 00:20:19,583
an ecosystem of scams

1109
00:20:19,583 --> 00:20:20,458
that came in.

1110
00:20:20,458 --> 00:20:21,125
So a lot of people

1111
00:20:21,125 --> 00:20:22,916
had these multi marketing

1112
00:20:22,916 --> 00:20:23,875
level multi-level

1113
00:20:23,875 --> 00:20:24,875
marketing schemes

1114
00:20:24,875 --> 00:20:25,583
and things like that

1115
00:20:25,583 --> 00:20:26,666
that pretend

1116
00:20:26,666 --> 00:20:27,666
like they're buying Bitcoin

1117
00:20:27,666 --> 00:20:28,583
for people were,

1118
00:20:28,583 --> 00:20:29,041
whereas they

1119
00:20:29,041 --> 00:20:30,375
weren't in reality.

1120
00:20:30,375 --> 00:20:31,083
So a lot of people

1121
00:20:31,083 --> 00:20:32,500
really had an introduction

1122
00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:33,125
to Bitcoin.

1123
00:20:33,125 --> 00:20:33,625
And again,

1124
00:20:33,625 --> 00:20:34,041
to fight

1125
00:20:34,041 --> 00:20:34,916
in the sense that they felt

1126
00:20:34,916 --> 00:20:36,875
this was just a scam.

1127
00:20:36,875 --> 00:20:39,083
And obviously there is the

1128
00:20:39,083 --> 00:20:39,875
I guess the

1129
00:20:39,875 --> 00:20:41,208
the existing paradigm

1130
00:20:41,208 --> 00:20:42,958
of scamming and

1131
00:20:42,958 --> 00:20:44,291
and being that being a means

1132
00:20:44,291 --> 00:20:45,375
for folks,

1133
00:20:45,375 --> 00:20:46,208
typically folks

1134
00:20:46,208 --> 00:20:47,208
around my age.

1135
00:20:47,208 --> 00:20:48,416
So there was that perception

1136
00:20:48,416 --> 00:20:49,000
that it's either

1137
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,541
for criminals or

1138
00:20:50,541 --> 00:20:51,083
these young kids

1139
00:20:51,083 --> 00:20:52,000
trying to make a quick buck

1140
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,666
or just scammers out. Right?

1141
00:20:53,666 --> 00:20:53,833
Yeah.

1142
00:20:53,833 --> 00:20:55,666
All about Nigerian

1143
00:20:55,666 --> 00:20:57,208
royal royalty, right.

1144
00:20:57,208 --> 00:20:58,291
Prince exotic. Yeah.

1145
00:20:59,916 --> 00:21:00,500
So that's, you know,

1146
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:01,208
one of the tools

1147
00:21:01,208 --> 00:21:02,458
for the royal class

1148
00:21:02,458 --> 00:21:03,333
you could see of

1149
00:21:03,333 --> 00:21:03,958
scammers here.

1150
00:21:03,958 --> 00:21:06,000
So I guess the thinking

1151
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:06,541
from the central

1152
00:21:06,541 --> 00:21:07,250
Bank of Nigeria

1153
00:21:07,250 --> 00:21:08,250
and some of the regulators

1154
00:21:08,250 --> 00:21:09,708
here at the apex, regulators

1155
00:21:09,708 --> 00:21:11,375
I should say, has been

1156
00:21:11,375 --> 00:21:14,250
one of cautious,

1157
00:21:14,250 --> 00:21:16,500
cautious like hesitation

1158
00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:17,833
to kind of get involved,

1159
00:21:17,833 --> 00:21:18,708
especially in that

1160
00:21:18,708 --> 00:21:19,250
at that point

1161
00:21:19,250 --> 00:21:20,666
in time in 2021.

1162
00:21:20,666 --> 00:21:21,541
So the idea for them

1163
00:21:21,541 --> 00:21:22,750
was just have a blanket ban,

1164
00:21:22,750 --> 00:21:23,500
the same thing

1165
00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:24,041
where every

1166
00:21:24,041 --> 00:21:24,875
other part of the world's

1167
00:21:24,875 --> 00:21:25,500
pretty much hide.

1168
00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:26,833
So what they did

1169
00:21:26,833 --> 00:21:28,708
was essentially stop

1170
00:21:28,708 --> 00:21:29,791
all these crypto companies

1171
00:21:29,791 --> 00:21:30,416
at that point

1172
00:21:30,416 --> 00:21:31,166
directly tying

1173
00:21:31,166 --> 00:21:32,041
banned transactions

1174
00:21:32,041 --> 00:21:32,750
to Bitcoin

1175
00:21:32,750 --> 00:21:34,166
or generally crypto.

1176
00:21:34,166 --> 00:21:35,708
So that was the first quasi

1177
00:21:35,708 --> 00:21:36,375
binary.

1178
00:21:36,375 --> 00:21:37,375
There wasn't necessarily

1179
00:21:37,375 --> 00:21:38,666
an outright ban ever

1180
00:21:38,666 --> 00:21:39,541
in dangerous history.

1181
00:21:39,541 --> 00:21:40,833
A couple of other countries

1182
00:21:40,833 --> 00:21:41,916
somebody

1183
00:21:41,916 --> 00:21:44,541
and from that point on to

1184
00:21:44,541 --> 00:21:46,291
2023 was

1185
00:21:46,291 --> 00:21:46,625
kind of

1186
00:21:46,625 --> 00:21:47,833
an interesting period for us.

1187
00:21:47,833 --> 00:21:49,208
So we went from

1188
00:21:49,208 --> 00:21:50,166
people essentially using

1189
00:21:50,166 --> 00:21:50,375
all these

1190
00:21:50,375 --> 00:21:51,416
centralized exchanges

1191
00:21:51,416 --> 00:21:52,666
to realizing

1192
00:21:52,666 --> 00:21:53,041
they can't

1193
00:21:53,041 --> 00:21:53,791
necessarily do that

1194
00:21:53,791 --> 00:21:54,541
effectively now.

1195
00:21:54,541 --> 00:21:55,250
So everyone was

1196
00:21:55,250 --> 00:21:56,166
Christian to P2P

1197
00:21:56,166 --> 00:21:57,458
and I mean, like

1198
00:21:57,458 --> 00:21:58,500
really, right, P2P

1199
00:21:58,500 --> 00:21:59,583
all the way from in-person

1200
00:21:59,583 --> 00:22:01,083
to shitty WhatsApp groups

1201
00:22:01,083 --> 00:22:02,083
to telegram group.

1202
00:22:02,083 --> 00:22:04,708
So we kind of built in

1203
00:22:04,708 --> 00:22:05,291
the two years

1204
00:22:05,291 --> 00:22:06,875
since that whole quasi ban,

1205
00:22:06,875 --> 00:22:07,875
like a very, very strong

1206
00:22:07,875 --> 00:22:09,875
P2P network of liquidity,

1207
00:22:09,875 --> 00:22:10,625
really for Bitcoin,

1208
00:22:10,625 --> 00:22:12,083
which is why we tend to rank

1209
00:22:12,083 --> 00:22:12,541
pretty high

1210
00:22:12,541 --> 00:22:13,250
when it comes to either

1211
00:22:13,250 --> 00:22:14,333
P2P or just adoption

1212
00:22:14,333 --> 00:22:14,791
in general,

1213
00:22:14,791 --> 00:22:16,625
because a lot of people

1214
00:22:16,625 --> 00:22:17,250
are facing

1215
00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:18,250
lot of economic challenges.

1216
00:22:18,250 --> 00:22:19,083
Nigeria, where we have

1217
00:22:19,083 --> 00:22:19,583
double digit

1218
00:22:19,583 --> 00:22:20,708
inflation, food crisis

1219
00:22:20,708 --> 00:22:21,625
that we had previously,

1220
00:22:21,625 --> 00:22:22,916
I think two years now.

1221
00:22:22,916 --> 00:22:23,625
So of the

1222
00:22:23,625 --> 00:22:24,541
the election that happened

1223
00:22:24,541 --> 00:22:25,291
two years ago, two,

1224
00:22:25,291 --> 00:22:26,833
which is insane

1225
00:22:26,833 --> 00:22:28,041
in terms of the

1226
00:22:28,041 --> 00:22:29,166
the shortages on cash

1227
00:22:29,166 --> 00:22:29,833
because they're moving

1228
00:22:29,833 --> 00:22:30,541
to different nodes

1229
00:22:30,541 --> 00:22:33,541
to soak up the amount of,

1230
00:22:33,666 --> 00:22:35,041
money that's outside of banks

1231
00:22:35,041 --> 00:22:35,958
so that regulation

1232
00:22:35,958 --> 00:22:36,625
could be effective.

1233
00:22:36,625 --> 00:22:37,708
So they reversed the ban

1234
00:22:37,708 --> 00:22:39,708
in 2023 or 2023.

1235
00:22:39,708 --> 00:22:41,458
But at that point, really

1236
00:22:41,458 --> 00:22:42,750
Bitcoin was already a

1237
00:22:42,750 --> 00:22:43,583
common staple.

1238
00:22:43,583 --> 00:22:44,333
So went from

1239
00:22:44,333 --> 00:22:45,333
being super scammy

1240
00:22:45,333 --> 00:22:46,708
to people actually organized

1241
00:22:46,708 --> 00:22:47,666
that it has used outside

1242
00:22:47,666 --> 00:22:49,166
of just being

1243
00:22:49,166 --> 00:22:50,458
kind of a scam coin

1244
00:22:50,458 --> 00:22:51,750
or some sort of a

1245
00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:52,708
criminal money, really.

1246
00:22:52,708 --> 00:22:53,666
So started realizing

1247
00:22:53,666 --> 00:22:54,166
that they could use it

1248
00:22:54,166 --> 00:22:55,666
for savings from intensives.

1249
00:22:55,666 --> 00:22:56,458
All of that,

1250
00:22:56,458 --> 00:22:57,125
and then used it

1251
00:22:57,125 --> 00:22:58,041
came into the mix too.

1252
00:22:58,041 --> 00:22:59,125
So they have like,

1253
00:22:59,125 --> 00:22:59,666
pretty much

1254
00:22:59,666 --> 00:23:00,541
stable Swiss

1255
00:23:00,541 --> 00:23:01,500
Army knife in terms

1256
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:03,000
of how they navigate

1257
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:03,708
monetary

1258
00:23:03,708 --> 00:23:04,458
at the monetary

1259
00:23:04,458 --> 00:23:05,250
milieu generally

1260
00:23:05,250 --> 00:23:06,125
and being being

1261
00:23:06,125 --> 00:23:06,916
able to participate

1262
00:23:06,916 --> 00:23:08,666
both at the local level

1263
00:23:08,666 --> 00:23:09,875
as well, like a global level.

1264
00:23:09,875 --> 00:23:11,583
So definitely,

1265
00:23:11,583 --> 00:23:12,958
if you ask me, I feel like,

1266
00:23:12,958 --> 00:23:14,458
the regulators

1267
00:23:14,458 --> 00:23:14,875
are the reason

1268
00:23:14,875 --> 00:23:15,416
why Bitcoin

1269
00:23:15,416 --> 00:23:16,500
is so big in Nigeria

1270
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:17,583
because

1271
00:23:17,583 --> 00:23:19,333
it was so desperate to

1272
00:23:19,333 --> 00:23:20,875
and have blanket bans early

1273
00:23:20,875 --> 00:23:21,666
on, which

1274
00:23:21,666 --> 00:23:22,625
I mean the consequences

1275
00:23:22,625 --> 00:23:23,333
are very difficult

1276
00:23:23,333 --> 00:23:23,916
to determine

1277
00:23:23,916 --> 00:23:24,958
from their point of view.

1278
00:23:24,958 --> 00:23:25,833
So I definitely understand

1279
00:23:25,833 --> 00:23:26,208
that it would have

1280
00:23:26,208 --> 00:23:26,666
been difficult

1281
00:23:26,666 --> 00:23:28,333
to foresee that there enabled

1282
00:23:28,333 --> 00:23:29,583
this whole push of P2P

1283
00:23:29,583 --> 00:23:30,750
all the way up to,

1284
00:23:30,750 --> 00:23:30,958
you know,

1285
00:23:30,958 --> 00:23:32,291
for their economic crises

1286
00:23:32,291 --> 00:23:32,791
as a result

1287
00:23:32,791 --> 00:23:33,625
of a whole bunch of stuff

1288
00:23:33,625 --> 00:23:34,833
like borrowing from the IMF.

1289
00:23:34,833 --> 00:23:36,083
So as in now

1290
00:23:36,083 --> 00:23:37,125
in the state of Bitcoin

1291
00:23:37,125 --> 00:23:38,791
in Nigeria specifically,

1292
00:23:38,791 --> 00:23:39,791
it's two fold, like

1293
00:23:39,791 --> 00:23:40,916
it's very, very high.

1294
00:23:40,916 --> 00:23:42,458
But it's on to the stage

1295
00:23:42,458 --> 00:23:43,166
where people think

1296
00:23:43,166 --> 00:23:43,583
in terms of

1297
00:23:43,583 --> 00:23:44,791
you could walk into a shop

1298
00:23:44,791 --> 00:23:46,166
and pay with Bitcoin,

1299
00:23:46,166 --> 00:23:46,625
it's mostly

1300
00:23:46,625 --> 00:23:46,875
to do

1301
00:23:46,875 --> 00:23:47,958
with actual individuals.

1302
00:23:47,958 --> 00:23:49,083
So I see the individual

1303
00:23:49,083 --> 00:23:50,125
adoption is very high

1304
00:23:50,125 --> 00:23:50,916
and not like a

1305
00:23:50,916 --> 00:23:51,791
national adoption.

1306
00:23:51,791 --> 00:23:52,750
That's happening

1307
00:23:52,750 --> 00:23:53,666
in like other countries,

1308
00:23:53,666 --> 00:23:54,333
like software,

1309
00:23:54,333 --> 00:23:54,875
all those, whereas

1310
00:23:54,875 --> 00:23:56,041
like really nationally

1311
00:23:56,041 --> 00:23:57,125
recognized on that level.

1312
00:23:58,666 --> 00:23:59,625
And what about mining?

1313
00:23:59,625 --> 00:24:01,041
Are there any mining projects

1314
00:24:01,041 --> 00:24:01,750
in Nigeria

1315
00:24:01,750 --> 00:24:03,541
like how is that going?

1316
00:24:03,541 --> 00:24:04,500
Okay, it's interesting too.

1317
00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:05,583
So starting from

1318
00:24:05,583 --> 00:24:06,208
really early on,

1319
00:24:06,208 --> 00:24:06,833
a lot of hobbyist

1320
00:24:06,833 --> 00:24:08,416
mining in Nigeria.

1321
00:24:08,416 --> 00:24:09,708
So we're talking

1322
00:24:09,708 --> 00:24:11,166
sub one megawatts,

1323
00:24:11,166 --> 00:24:12,750
like really rugged

1324
00:24:12,750 --> 00:24:13,666
mining operations

1325
00:24:13,666 --> 00:24:14,250
where you just walk

1326
00:24:14,250 --> 00:24:15,541
into a house and start

1327
00:24:15,541 --> 00:24:16,083
hearing a whole

1328
00:24:16,083 --> 00:24:16,625
bunch of noise,

1329
00:24:16,625 --> 00:24:17,458
and then

1330
00:24:17,458 --> 00:24:18,333
walking to this room,

1331
00:24:18,333 --> 00:24:20,333
you see a whole bunch of S19

1332
00:24:20,333 --> 00:24:20,875
working out.

1333
00:24:20,875 --> 00:24:22,166
So at this point

1334
00:24:22,166 --> 00:24:22,958
is a lot more structured.

1335
00:24:22,958 --> 00:24:23,875
I say,

1336
00:24:23,875 --> 00:24:25,208
due to a lot of the clarity

1337
00:24:25,208 --> 00:24:26,916
that we have in terms of

1338
00:24:26,916 --> 00:24:28,166
other parts of Africa

1339
00:24:28,166 --> 00:24:29,125
as being Bitcoin mining

1340
00:24:29,125 --> 00:24:30,166
like Ethiopia, Kenya

1341
00:24:30,166 --> 00:24:31,291
and some other parts,

1342
00:24:31,291 --> 00:24:31,583
I think a lot

1343
00:24:31,583 --> 00:24:32,750
more people are understanding

1344
00:24:32,750 --> 00:24:34,708
in terms of the value,

1345
00:24:34,708 --> 00:24:35,291
the benefit,

1346
00:24:35,291 --> 00:24:35,750
as well as how

1347
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:36,750
to actually practically do it

1348
00:24:36,750 --> 00:24:37,708
well without blowing

1349
00:24:37,708 --> 00:24:38,833
circuits in

1350
00:24:38,833 --> 00:24:39,625
and causing fires,

1351
00:24:39,625 --> 00:24:40,541
which a whole bunch of

1352
00:24:40,541 --> 00:24:41,125
early folks

1353
00:24:41,125 --> 00:24:42,166
had to go through.

1354
00:24:42,166 --> 00:24:42,750
And right now

1355
00:24:42,750 --> 00:24:44,083
we're seeing a huge

1356
00:24:44,083 --> 00:24:45,833
uptake in terms of organized

1357
00:24:45,833 --> 00:24:47,541
mining operations in Nigeria,

1358
00:24:47,541 --> 00:24:48,250
despite the fact

1359
00:24:48,250 --> 00:24:48,750
that there isn't

1360
00:24:48,750 --> 00:24:49,583
necessarily clear

1361
00:24:49,583 --> 00:24:50,208
regulation

1362
00:24:50,208 --> 00:24:52,166
in terms of an okay or a

1363
00:24:52,166 --> 00:24:52,708
not really

1364
00:24:52,708 --> 00:24:53,458
from the regulator.

1365
00:24:53,458 --> 00:24:54,541
So so

1366
00:24:54,541 --> 00:24:56,166
we're still in that like

1367
00:24:56,166 --> 00:24:56,958
shadowy area

1368
00:24:56,958 --> 00:24:57,875
in terms of operation.

1369
00:24:57,875 --> 00:24:58,791
But there's a lot

1370
00:24:58,791 --> 00:25:00,083
to do with hydro

1371
00:25:00,083 --> 00:25:01,125
as well as flared gas,

1372
00:25:01,125 --> 00:25:02,333
because as you said,

1373
00:25:02,333 --> 00:25:02,833
guys down

1374
00:25:02,833 --> 00:25:05,125
south and Niger has pretty

1375
00:25:05,125 --> 00:25:05,875
much ranked

1376
00:25:05,875 --> 00:25:06,416
top five,

1377
00:25:06,416 --> 00:25:07,250
I think customers

1378
00:25:07,250 --> 00:25:07,625
in the world.

1379
00:25:07,625 --> 00:25:08,791
So makes a lot of sense

1380
00:25:08,791 --> 00:25:09,250
for people

1381
00:25:09,250 --> 00:25:10,625
to engage through that.

1382
00:25:10,625 --> 00:25:11,666
So it's actually growing,

1383
00:25:11,666 --> 00:25:12,666
I think.

1384
00:25:12,666 --> 00:25:13,500
I think we're behind

1385
00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:15,083
in terms of adoption

1386
00:25:15,083 --> 00:25:15,833
for Bitcoin mining

1387
00:25:15,833 --> 00:25:16,750
compared to Kenya

1388
00:25:16,750 --> 00:25:17,291
or Ethiopia.

1389
00:25:17,291 --> 00:25:18,625
I mean, Ethiopia alone

1390
00:25:18,625 --> 00:25:18,833
right now.

1391
00:25:18,833 --> 00:25:19,333
I think

1392
00:25:19,333 --> 00:25:20,125
the last time I checked,

1393
00:25:20,125 --> 00:25:20,583
the numbers

1394
00:25:20,583 --> 00:25:22,666
are probably around like 25%

1395
00:25:22,666 --> 00:25:23,375
global hash rate,

1396
00:25:23,375 --> 00:25:24,458
which is insane.

1397
00:25:24,458 --> 00:25:25,583
It grew from

1398
00:25:25,583 --> 00:25:26,666
like pretty much 0.5

1399
00:25:26,666 --> 00:25:28,250
or 0.25 a year

1400
00:25:28,250 --> 00:25:29,250
earlier

1401
00:25:29,250 --> 00:25:30,333
in 2023,

1402
00:25:30,333 --> 00:25:32,375
all the way up to 2.5 when,

1403
00:25:32,375 --> 00:25:33,083
just for context,

1404
00:25:33,083 --> 00:25:33,958
like the whole of Africa

1405
00:25:33,958 --> 00:25:35,458
is roughly around three point

1406
00:25:35,458 --> 00:25:36,791
something percent hash rate.

1407
00:25:36,791 --> 00:25:37,833
So you can see

1408
00:25:37,833 --> 00:25:38,958
just a single country

1409
00:25:38,958 --> 00:25:39,583
gobbling

1410
00:25:39,583 --> 00:25:40,500
so much of the hash rate.

1411
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:42,000
So I think probably

1412
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,416
by the end of 2025,

1413
00:25:43,416 --> 00:25:44,041
that number

1414
00:25:44,041 --> 00:25:45,000
generally for Africa

1415
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,791
will probably reach

1416
00:25:46,791 --> 00:25:47,875
above 5%

1417
00:25:47,875 --> 00:25:48,416
as a result

1418
00:25:48,416 --> 00:25:49,750
of expanded operations

1419
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:50,916
both in Ethiopia, Kenya

1420
00:25:50,916 --> 00:25:51,500
as well as some

1421
00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:52,250
parts of Nigeria.

1422
00:25:54,666 --> 00:25:55,291
Yeah, yeah.

1423
00:25:55,291 --> 00:25:58,291
So that I think the whole

1424
00:25:58,750 --> 00:26:00,416
mining picture in general

1425
00:26:00,416 --> 00:26:02,333
is an interesting one, like,

1426
00:26:02,333 --> 00:26:04,875
what you mentioned with

1427
00:26:04,875 --> 00:26:05,833
kind of the comparisons

1428
00:26:05,833 --> 00:26:07,708
to, to other countries,

1429
00:26:07,708 --> 00:26:09,166
and, well,

1430
00:26:09,166 --> 00:26:10,291
I guess

1431
00:26:10,291 --> 00:26:11,208
we should say the, the,

1432
00:26:11,208 --> 00:26:12,000
our last meeting

1433
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,000
was at the nice

1434
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,750
conference in Slovenia,

1435
00:26:15,750 --> 00:26:16,708
and we did a panel

1436
00:26:16,708 --> 00:26:17,375
together on,

1437
00:26:17,375 --> 00:26:18,125
I guess, the,

1438
00:26:18,125 --> 00:26:19,583
the future trends

1439
00:26:19,583 --> 00:26:21,416
in, in mining.

1440
00:26:21,416 --> 00:26:22,500
And I think your,

1441
00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:23,708
your expertise on the,

1442
00:26:23,708 --> 00:26:24,625
on the local

1443
00:26:24,625 --> 00:26:26,041
market in Africa was a good,

1444
00:26:26,041 --> 00:26:26,916
a good chunk

1445
00:26:26,916 --> 00:26:27,791
of what we talked about.

1446
00:26:27,791 --> 00:26:29,666
But, I guess

1447
00:26:29,666 --> 00:26:30,333
do you see this

1448
00:26:30,333 --> 00:26:32,625
trend continuing that

1449
00:26:32,625 --> 00:26:33,583
that mining

1450
00:26:33,583 --> 00:26:34,125
is going to be

1451
00:26:34,125 --> 00:26:35,458
really targeting these

1452
00:26:35,458 --> 00:26:36,416
these areas

1453
00:26:36,416 --> 00:26:39,125
that, are currently

1454
00:26:39,125 --> 00:26:40,125
sort of say,

1455
00:26:40,125 --> 00:26:42,208
underserved

1456
00:26:42,208 --> 00:26:44,250
in terms of electrical grids

1457
00:26:44,250 --> 00:26:45,750
and things like this, like,

1458
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:47,916
is mining the

1459
00:26:47,916 --> 00:26:49,000
the narrative around

1460
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,125
it is

1461
00:26:50,125 --> 00:26:50,750
seems to

1462
00:26:50,750 --> 00:26:52,083
be very positive in Africa

1463
00:26:52,083 --> 00:26:52,458
right now.

1464
00:26:52,458 --> 00:26:55,250
Is that, really the case?

1465
00:26:55,250 --> 00:26:56,250
Oh, I hundred percent

1466
00:26:56,250 --> 00:26:57,541
and I think it's

1467
00:26:57,541 --> 00:26:58,500
forced regulators

1468
00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:00,166
into a very interesting spot.

1469
00:27:00,166 --> 00:27:01,166
So think of it this way.

1470
00:27:01,166 --> 00:27:01,708
We already had,

1471
00:27:01,708 --> 00:27:03,125
especially in Nigeria,

1472
00:27:03,125 --> 00:27:05,041
the whole evolution of people

1473
00:27:05,041 --> 00:27:06,041
flipping the paradigm

1474
00:27:06,041 --> 00:27:06,625
on Bitcoin

1475
00:27:06,625 --> 00:27:09,083
from seeing a super volatile,

1476
00:27:09,083 --> 00:27:10,916
super stable to Bitcoin

1477
00:27:10,916 --> 00:27:12,250
being a lot less volatile

1478
00:27:12,250 --> 00:27:13,791
than the national currency,

1479
00:27:13,791 --> 00:27:14,750
I mean, increased

1480
00:27:14,750 --> 00:27:15,625
the economic crisis

1481
00:27:15,625 --> 00:27:16,083
and all of that.

1482
00:27:16,083 --> 00:27:17,083
So we went through

1483
00:27:17,083 --> 00:27:17,791
that whole shift

1484
00:27:17,791 --> 00:27:19,041
in just Bitcoin being a money

1485
00:27:19,041 --> 00:27:20,500
that actually does work.

1486
00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:21,208
Regulators already

1487
00:27:21,208 --> 00:27:22,000
have that context

1488
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:22,500
to work with.

1489
00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:24,083
And then Bitcoin mining was,

1490
00:27:24,083 --> 00:27:25,083
I think,

1491
00:27:25,083 --> 00:27:25,875
the first time

1492
00:27:25,875 --> 00:27:26,250
that a lot of

1493
00:27:26,250 --> 00:27:26,875
people understood

1494
00:27:26,875 --> 00:27:28,291
that Bitcoin is a technology.

1495
00:27:28,291 --> 00:27:29,750
And not just a money, as

1496
00:27:29,750 --> 00:27:30,833
people are seeing it as like

1497
00:27:30,833 --> 00:27:32,375
funny internet money,

1498
00:27:32,375 --> 00:27:33,583
because now they're seeing

1499
00:27:33,583 --> 00:27:34,833
that there are practical

1500
00:27:34,833 --> 00:27:36,541
socio economic consequences

1501
00:27:36,541 --> 00:27:37,166
and benefits

1502
00:27:37,166 --> 00:27:37,916
of Bitcoin mining

1503
00:27:37,916 --> 00:27:39,000
specifically to do

1504
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:39,916
with electrification,

1505
00:27:39,916 --> 00:27:40,875
which has been a huge issue

1506
00:27:40,875 --> 00:27:41,375
in Africa.

1507
00:27:41,375 --> 00:27:42,083
Like,

1508
00:27:42,083 --> 00:27:42,583
do we have been

1509
00:27:42,583 --> 00:27:43,375
approaching this

1510
00:27:43,375 --> 00:27:44,666
on a national level?

1511
00:27:44,666 --> 00:27:46,416
Variety of countries has been

1512
00:27:46,416 --> 00:27:47,333
heavily borrowing,

1513
00:27:47,333 --> 00:27:48,458
getting folks to get involved

1514
00:27:48,458 --> 00:27:49,583
with energy production.

1515
00:27:49,583 --> 00:27:51,083
And then the problem is folks

1516
00:27:51,083 --> 00:27:51,333
feel it's

1517
00:27:51,333 --> 00:27:52,583
too risky to get involved

1518
00:27:52,583 --> 00:27:53,416
a lot of these regions,

1519
00:27:53,416 --> 00:27:54,083
and then

1520
00:27:54,083 --> 00:27:54,666
there's no one

1521
00:27:54,666 --> 00:27:55,458
to take on this,

1522
00:27:55,458 --> 00:27:56,333
this energy

1523
00:27:56,333 --> 00:27:57,000
that's been produced.

1524
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:57,458
So typically

1525
00:27:57,458 --> 00:27:58,208
you just shut off.

1526
00:27:58,208 --> 00:27:59,041
Don't don't begin

1527
00:27:59,041 --> 00:27:59,791
about these projects

1528
00:27:59,791 --> 00:28:01,625
and other leading with that.

1529
00:28:01,625 --> 00:28:02,666
So with Bitcoin mining,

1530
00:28:02,666 --> 00:28:04,583
these are realizing that

1531
00:28:04,583 --> 00:28:05,416
this mechanism

1532
00:28:05,416 --> 00:28:06,125
of bootstrapping

1533
00:28:06,125 --> 00:28:07,458
energy production

1534
00:28:07,458 --> 00:28:08,166
by having a buyer

1535
00:28:08,166 --> 00:28:08,375
first

1536
00:28:08,375 --> 00:28:09,541
demand has solved

1537
00:28:09,541 --> 00:28:10,416
all the issues that we've had

1538
00:28:10,416 --> 00:28:11,083
for decades

1539
00:28:11,083 --> 00:28:12,208
in terms of electrification.

1540
00:28:12,208 --> 00:28:13,375
So for the first time,

1541
00:28:13,375 --> 00:28:14,541
they've been put in

1542
00:28:14,541 --> 00:28:15,041
a position

1543
00:28:15,041 --> 00:28:15,416
where they'll

1544
00:28:15,416 --> 00:28:16,375
have to confront

1545
00:28:16,375 --> 00:28:17,000
Bitcoin mining

1546
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:17,375
more head

1547
00:28:17,375 --> 00:28:19,583
on, a more one maturely

1548
00:28:19,583 --> 00:28:20,791
than previously in terms

1549
00:28:20,791 --> 00:28:22,458
of just outrageous,

1550
00:28:22,458 --> 00:28:24,000
hand-waving in terms of it

1551
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,541
just being money and a scam.

1552
00:28:25,541 --> 00:28:26,250
So I think we're going

1553
00:28:26,250 --> 00:28:26,833
to see a lot more,

1554
00:28:26,833 --> 00:28:27,416
especially now

1555
00:28:27,416 --> 00:28:28,750
with Ethiopian Kenya.

1556
00:28:28,750 --> 00:28:30,791
I think they've been super,

1557
00:28:30,791 --> 00:28:31,375
super great

1558
00:28:31,375 --> 00:28:32,166
in terms of pioneering

1559
00:28:32,166 --> 00:28:33,125
the space, both in terms

1560
00:28:33,125 --> 00:28:34,291
of on the regulatory front,

1561
00:28:34,291 --> 00:28:35,333
but also on

1562
00:28:35,333 --> 00:28:36,583
the strategic level in terms

1563
00:28:36,583 --> 00:28:37,500
of ramping up

1564
00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:38,333
energy production

1565
00:28:38,333 --> 00:28:39,666
and really showing people

1566
00:28:39,666 --> 00:28:41,125
that you could actually

1567
00:28:41,125 --> 00:28:42,416
usefully manage

1568
00:28:42,416 --> 00:28:43,375
green projects

1569
00:28:43,375 --> 00:28:44,541
through Bitcoin mining

1570
00:28:44,541 --> 00:28:45,875
and to connect electrify

1571
00:28:45,875 --> 00:28:46,875
rural communities.

1572
00:28:46,875 --> 00:28:48,416
Then honestly, in a point

1573
00:28:48,416 --> 00:28:49,083
where you have

1574
00:28:49,083 --> 00:28:49,875
access revenues

1575
00:28:49,875 --> 00:28:50,958
for these communities,

1576
00:28:50,958 --> 00:28:51,333
which can

1577
00:28:51,333 --> 00:28:52,625
then be used to build out

1578
00:28:52,625 --> 00:28:53,041
further

1579
00:28:53,041 --> 00:28:54,666
the grids that are pretty,

1580
00:28:54,666 --> 00:28:56,166
pretty disparate in terms of,

1581
00:28:56,166 --> 00:28:57,625
their maturity

1582
00:28:57,625 --> 00:28:58,291
as well as

1583
00:28:58,291 --> 00:28:59,625
the level of handling

1584
00:28:59,625 --> 00:29:00,375
the load to distribute

1585
00:29:00,375 --> 00:29:00,833
to other parts

1586
00:29:00,833 --> 00:29:01,708
that don't have electricity.

1587
00:29:01,708 --> 00:29:02,791
So it's this

1588
00:29:02,791 --> 00:29:03,833
whole flywheel

1589
00:29:03,833 --> 00:29:04,625
that's being created,

1590
00:29:04,625 --> 00:29:06,208
another person

1591
00:29:06,208 --> 00:29:06,875
place in Mangere

1592
00:29:06,875 --> 00:29:07,833
and other places

1593
00:29:07,833 --> 00:29:09,083
that are not as advanced

1594
00:29:09,083 --> 00:29:09,791
in terms of Bitcoin

1595
00:29:09,791 --> 00:29:10,375
mining are starting

1596
00:29:10,375 --> 00:29:10,791
to see that

1597
00:29:10,791 --> 00:29:11,916
as like a template

1598
00:29:11,916 --> 00:29:12,916
to Bitcoin to

1599
00:29:12,916 --> 00:29:13,708
especially the bitcoin

1600
00:29:13,708 --> 00:29:14,000
miners.

1601
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:14,791
You're trying to do the work.

1602
00:29:14,791 --> 00:29:16,000
So I think we'll see

1603
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,666
in 2025 to 2026

1604
00:29:17,666 --> 00:29:18,750
will be a lot more

1605
00:29:18,750 --> 00:29:19,791
regulatory clarity

1606
00:29:19,791 --> 00:29:20,458
or at least

1607
00:29:20,458 --> 00:29:21,458
some regulation,

1608
00:29:21,458 --> 00:29:22,833
whether good or bad, come out

1609
00:29:22,833 --> 00:29:23,416
as a result of

1610
00:29:23,416 --> 00:29:24,541
Bitcoin mining.

1611
00:29:24,541 --> 00:29:25,291
And you'll likely see

1612
00:29:25,291 --> 00:29:26,125
a lot more countries

1613
00:29:26,125 --> 00:29:26,666
being involved

1614
00:29:26,666 --> 00:29:27,333
with bitcoin mining,

1615
00:29:27,333 --> 00:29:28,416
not just for electrification,

1616
00:29:28,416 --> 00:29:30,125
but likely for,

1617
00:29:30,125 --> 00:29:30,625
I guess,

1618
00:29:30,625 --> 00:29:31,916
national treasury management,

1619
00:29:31,916 --> 00:29:32,791
really, where they're holding

1620
00:29:32,791 --> 00:29:34,000
Bitcoin as one

1621
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:34,958
possibly doing their

1622
00:29:34,958 --> 00:29:35,625
servicing down

1623
00:29:35,625 --> 00:29:36,583
the line as well.

1624
00:29:36,583 --> 00:29:37,041
I've heard

1625
00:29:37,041 --> 00:29:37,875
a few conversations

1626
00:29:37,875 --> 00:29:38,583
without mentioning

1627
00:29:38,583 --> 00:29:39,375
specific countries

1628
00:29:39,375 --> 00:29:40,833
where some of the regulators

1629
00:29:40,833 --> 00:29:41,125
are starting

1630
00:29:41,125 --> 00:29:41,666
to look at that,

1631
00:29:41,666 --> 00:29:42,416
especially on the central

1632
00:29:42,416 --> 00:29:42,958
bank level,

1633
00:29:42,958 --> 00:29:43,791
as a result of the work

1634
00:29:43,791 --> 00:29:44,750
from the Bitcoin Policy

1635
00:29:44,750 --> 00:29:45,625
Institute around that.

1636
00:29:45,625 --> 00:29:46,750
So that mean

1637
00:29:46,750 --> 00:29:47,666
a lot is going to happen.

1638
00:29:47,666 --> 00:29:49,083
And I think Bitcoin mining

1639
00:29:49,083 --> 00:29:49,583
is probably

1640
00:29:49,583 --> 00:29:50,458
the biggest catalyst

1641
00:29:50,458 --> 00:29:50,875
for why

1642
00:29:50,875 --> 00:29:51,708
governments are starting

1643
00:29:51,708 --> 00:29:52,708
to take become more seriously

1644
00:29:52,708 --> 00:29:54,583
on the continent. Mr..

1645
00:29:54,583 --> 00:29:55,541
Hello there.

1646
00:29:55,541 --> 00:29:56,875
And here's

1647
00:29:56,875 --> 00:29:58,583
how to use code infinity

1648
00:29:58,583 --> 00:29:59,291
like everywhere

1649
00:29:59,291 --> 00:30:00,500
on the internet.

1650
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:01,416
For instance

1651
00:30:01,416 --> 00:30:04,541
for the MicroStrategy Bitcoin

1652
00:30:04,541 --> 00:30:07,375
for corporations, conference

1653
00:30:07,375 --> 00:30:09,166
for BTC, frog for BTC.

1654
00:30:09,166 --> 00:30:09,458
Hell,

1655
00:30:09,458 --> 00:30:11,375
we come to Helsinki in August

1656
00:30:11,375 --> 00:30:13,250
and make sure T goes

1657
00:30:13,250 --> 00:30:14,291
stamp seed

1658
00:30:14,291 --> 00:30:15,708
with your three fantastic

1659
00:30:15,708 --> 00:30:17,541
little C plates.

1660
00:30:17,541 --> 00:30:19,041
You can get the infinite,

1661
00:30:19,041 --> 00:30:21,208
the over 21 million, this,

1662
00:30:21,208 --> 00:30:22,916
special plates.

1663
00:30:22,916 --> 00:30:24,416
But we collaborated

1664
00:30:24,416 --> 00:30:26,416
with them and, making,

1665
00:30:27,708 --> 00:30:29,125
use code Infinity for

1666
00:30:29,125 --> 00:30:30,375
a discount.

1667
00:30:30,375 --> 00:30:32,000
Same thing goes for

1668
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:32,750
our favorite

1669
00:30:32,750 --> 00:30:34,875
hardware, Walmart B big box.

1670
00:30:34,875 --> 00:30:36,291
So to the spirit

1671
00:30:36,291 --> 00:30:37,333
box, dot Swiss.

1672
00:30:37,333 --> 00:30:39,958
So get that,

1673
00:30:39,958 --> 00:30:41,666
the Bitcoin advisor

1674
00:30:41,666 --> 00:30:42,833
for bitcoin inheritance

1675
00:30:42,833 --> 00:30:43,958
planning and so on

1676
00:30:43,958 --> 00:30:44,583
and so forth.

1677
00:30:44,583 --> 00:30:46,291
And the general advice

1678
00:30:46,291 --> 00:30:48,208
Bitcoin advisor.com.

1679
00:30:48,208 --> 00:30:48,875
And make sure

1680
00:30:48,875 --> 00:30:49,916
to like subscribe

1681
00:30:49,916 --> 00:30:50,791
and brush your feet

1682
00:30:50,791 --> 00:30:51,416
and all that

1683
00:30:51,416 --> 00:30:53,750
for the Bitcoin infinity.com

1684
00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:55,041
and get some stuff

1685
00:30:55,041 --> 00:30:56,875
and some books.

1686
00:30:56,875 --> 00:30:59,291
Great to have you here.

1687
00:30:59,291 --> 00:30:59,833
I, I'm

1688
00:30:59,833 --> 00:31:01,041
not sure that people outside

1689
00:31:01,041 --> 00:31:02,208
of the mining industry

1690
00:31:02,208 --> 00:31:03,500
really understand

1691
00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:05,750
how important it is

1692
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:07,666
for as a driver for,

1693
00:31:07,666 --> 00:31:09,208
for Bitcoin generally.

1694
00:31:09,208 --> 00:31:10,875
And I mean, I think there's a

1695
00:31:10,875 --> 00:31:12,958
there's a perception that,

1696
00:31:12,958 --> 00:31:17,416
bitcoin as used by users,

1697
00:31:18,458 --> 00:31:20,541
maybe, maybe not necessarily

1698
00:31:20,541 --> 00:31:21,500
even the ones

1699
00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:22,125
who are running

1700
00:31:22,125 --> 00:31:22,750
their own node

1701
00:31:22,750 --> 00:31:23,958
and have full self-custody,

1702
00:31:23,958 --> 00:31:24,916
but just,

1703
00:31:24,916 --> 00:31:25,833
you know, use the

1704
00:31:25,833 --> 00:31:27,583
Lightning Network somehow.

1705
00:31:28,791 --> 00:31:29,625
Maybe they don't really

1706
00:31:29,625 --> 00:31:30,958
see what,

1707
00:31:30,958 --> 00:31:32,750
what the impact of mining

1708
00:31:32,750 --> 00:31:34,583
is on on what they're doing

1709
00:31:34,583 --> 00:31:35,125
and the reasons

1710
00:31:35,125 --> 00:31:36,458
why it's important.

1711
00:31:36,458 --> 00:31:39,666
But it's interesting.

1712
00:31:39,666 --> 00:31:40,250
It's interesting

1713
00:31:40,250 --> 00:31:40,958
that you say that,

1714
00:31:40,958 --> 00:31:42,208
that there's an impact

1715
00:31:42,208 --> 00:31:43,333
even towards the,

1716
00:31:43,333 --> 00:31:44,750
the regulatory angle.

1717
00:31:44,750 --> 00:31:46,041
And,

1718
00:31:46,041 --> 00:31:47,750
I guess I guess I'm curious,

1719
00:31:47,750 --> 00:31:49,041
what do you think in general,

1720
00:31:49,041 --> 00:31:50,208
the trend is going to be over

1721
00:31:50,208 --> 00:31:51,083
these next few years

1722
00:31:51,083 --> 00:31:51,958
in terms of,

1723
00:31:51,958 --> 00:31:52,458
in terms

1724
00:31:52,458 --> 00:31:53,541
of regulation, because,

1725
00:31:53,541 --> 00:31:55,875
as you were saying

1726
00:31:55,875 --> 00:31:57,791
that, that these trend of,

1727
00:31:57,791 --> 00:31:59,083
of strategic

1728
00:31:59,083 --> 00:32:00,083
Bitcoin reserves

1729
00:32:00,083 --> 00:32:02,250
of, of friendly

1730
00:32:02,250 --> 00:32:05,458
or unfriendly regulation,

1731
00:32:05,458 --> 00:32:08,458
but in, in the bull

1732
00:32:08,458 --> 00:32:08,833
market

1733
00:32:08,833 --> 00:32:10,000
that is still theoretically

1734
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:11,791
just getting started.

1735
00:32:11,791 --> 00:32:12,458
Number go up

1736
00:32:12,458 --> 00:32:14,000
is going to do its thing.

1737
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,291
And, and so it's it's

1738
00:32:15,291 --> 00:32:17,208
a really unclear time

1739
00:32:17,208 --> 00:32:18,083
over the next

1740
00:32:18,083 --> 00:32:19,458
couple of years.

1741
00:32:19,458 --> 00:32:20,750
What do you think

1742
00:32:20,750 --> 00:32:22,250
is is going to happen

1743
00:32:22,250 --> 00:32:23,625
as, as numbers go up

1744
00:32:23,625 --> 00:32:24,458
does its thing

1745
00:32:24,458 --> 00:32:26,083
and, and regulators start to

1746
00:32:26,083 --> 00:32:27,500
take more interest generally.

1747
00:32:29,208 --> 00:32:29,833
And it's it's hard

1748
00:32:29,833 --> 00:32:30,833
to it's hard to tell.

1749
00:32:30,833 --> 00:32:31,750
I just off the bat

1750
00:32:31,750 --> 00:32:32,541
like a lot of

1751
00:32:32,541 --> 00:32:33,500
these prognostications

1752
00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:34,708
that we could do

1753
00:32:34,708 --> 00:32:35,666
or we have done,

1754
00:32:35,666 --> 00:32:36,125
especially on

1755
00:32:36,125 --> 00:32:37,458
the gun has been

1756
00:32:37,458 --> 00:32:37,791
thought out

1757
00:32:37,791 --> 00:32:38,375
wrong for

1758
00:32:38,375 --> 00:32:39,250
a variety of reasons.

1759
00:32:39,250 --> 00:32:40,291
But most of the time

1760
00:32:40,291 --> 00:32:41,333
it's been

1761
00:32:41,333 --> 00:32:42,500
wrong for the right reasons.

1762
00:32:42,500 --> 00:32:43,791
So specifically,

1763
00:32:43,791 --> 00:32:44,708
a lot of us early on

1764
00:32:44,708 --> 00:32:46,791
didn't think this far along,

1765
00:32:46,791 --> 00:32:47,750
and a lot of the thinking

1766
00:32:47,750 --> 00:32:48,166
that we had

1767
00:32:48,166 --> 00:32:48,750
was probably like

1768
00:32:48,750 --> 00:32:49,708
a ten year trajectory

1769
00:32:49,708 --> 00:32:50,208
to get to where

1770
00:32:50,208 --> 00:32:50,875
we are currently.

1771
00:32:50,875 --> 00:32:52,041
So I say

1772
00:32:52,041 --> 00:32:53,166
Africa is one of those parts

1773
00:32:53,166 --> 00:32:54,791
where

1774
00:32:54,791 --> 00:32:56,666
just the sheer lack of a

1775
00:32:56,666 --> 00:32:57,916
lot of these infrastructure

1776
00:32:57,916 --> 00:32:59,625
really, that is needed

1777
00:32:59,625 --> 00:33:00,833
or is seen is,

1778
00:33:00,833 --> 00:33:02,125
I guess available

1779
00:33:02,125 --> 00:33:03,041
in other parts of the world

1780
00:33:03,041 --> 00:33:03,708
that are quote unquote

1781
00:33:03,708 --> 00:33:05,041
more developed

1782
00:33:05,041 --> 00:33:05,833
is probably

1783
00:33:05,833 --> 00:33:06,666
the biggest opportunity

1784
00:33:06,666 --> 00:33:07,333
and the biggest reason

1785
00:33:07,333 --> 00:33:08,666
why it happened so fast

1786
00:33:08,666 --> 00:33:10,208
in the way it does,

1787
00:33:10,208 --> 00:33:10,791
like think of it

1788
00:33:10,791 --> 00:33:11,041
this way,

1789
00:33:11,041 --> 00:33:12,000
in the last two years,

1790
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:12,375
we've gone

1791
00:33:12,375 --> 00:33:15,500
from roughly less than 0%

1792
00:33:15,500 --> 00:33:18,083
to around like 0.1%

1793
00:33:18,083 --> 00:33:19,333
in terms of mining hashrate,

1794
00:33:19,333 --> 00:33:20,291
all the way up to three point

1795
00:33:20,291 --> 00:33:20,958
something percent.

1796
00:33:20,958 --> 00:33:23,416
So I think in terms of the

1797
00:33:23,416 --> 00:33:24,375
the adoption,

1798
00:33:24,375 --> 00:33:24,958
I think

1799
00:33:24,958 --> 00:33:25,666
even looking back

1800
00:33:25,666 --> 00:33:26,916
five years ago, where

1801
00:33:26,916 --> 00:33:27,958
and it wasn't really actually

1802
00:33:27,958 --> 00:33:29,083
that high

1803
00:33:29,083 --> 00:33:29,625
all the way up

1804
00:33:29,625 --> 00:33:30,958
to where it is right now

1805
00:33:30,958 --> 00:33:31,666
in terms of what's

1806
00:33:31,666 --> 00:33:34,125
leading adoption,

1807
00:33:34,125 --> 00:33:34,791
Africa leading

1808
00:33:34,791 --> 00:33:35,625
mining in terms

1809
00:33:35,625 --> 00:33:36,958
of green energy,

1810
00:33:36,958 --> 00:33:38,750
the green energy revolutions.

1811
00:33:38,750 --> 00:33:39,500
And then lastly,

1812
00:33:39,500 --> 00:33:40,208
just looking at

1813
00:33:40,208 --> 00:33:41,333
even the developer base

1814
00:33:41,333 --> 00:33:41,916
in Africa

1815
00:33:41,916 --> 00:33:43,250
has gone from there's

1816
00:33:43,250 --> 00:33:44,416
no such thing

1817
00:33:44,416 --> 00:33:45,416
as when we first started

1818
00:33:45,416 --> 00:33:46,541
getting more open spaces,

1819
00:33:46,541 --> 00:33:47,166
like an African

1820
00:33:47,166 --> 00:33:48,166
Bitcoin ecosystem

1821
00:33:48,166 --> 00:33:49,291
or an African

1822
00:33:49,291 --> 00:33:50,083
bitcoin development

1823
00:33:50,083 --> 00:33:50,708
ecosystem,

1824
00:33:50,708 --> 00:33:51,500
all the way up to

1825
00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:52,875
having developers

1826
00:33:52,875 --> 00:33:53,375
come from

1827
00:33:53,375 --> 00:33:54,750
this part of the world,

1828
00:33:54,750 --> 00:33:56,416
I think in the next two,

1829
00:33:56,416 --> 00:33:58,166
three, possibly five years,

1830
00:33:58,166 --> 00:33:59,083
we're likely going to see

1831
00:33:59,083 --> 00:34:00,083
like three things.

1832
00:34:00,083 --> 00:34:01,583
One is

1833
00:34:01,583 --> 00:34:01,958
a lot more

1834
00:34:01,958 --> 00:34:02,958
regulatory clarity,

1835
00:34:02,958 --> 00:34:03,583
and I think

1836
00:34:03,583 --> 00:34:04,458
we have the opportunity

1837
00:34:04,458 --> 00:34:05,375
to do two things.

1838
00:34:05,375 --> 00:34:06,833
One is, as Bitcoiners

1839
00:34:06,833 --> 00:34:07,791
approach regulators

1840
00:34:07,791 --> 00:34:08,833
in a more sensible way

1841
00:34:08,833 --> 00:34:09,583
than previous

1842
00:34:09,583 --> 00:34:10,583
have been doing in terms of

1843
00:34:10,583 --> 00:34:12,208
just being completely

1844
00:34:12,208 --> 00:34:14,166
antagonistic or

1845
00:34:14,166 --> 00:34:15,541
hand-waving, because,

1846
00:34:15,541 --> 00:34:16,166
yeah, a lot of us

1847
00:34:16,166 --> 00:34:16,875
that are more savvy

1848
00:34:16,875 --> 00:34:17,416
with Bitcoin

1849
00:34:17,416 --> 00:34:18,250
will still have access

1850
00:34:18,250 --> 00:34:19,500
to Bitcoin internally

1851
00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:20,750
under the same keys.

1852
00:34:20,750 --> 00:34:21,125
For people

1853
00:34:21,125 --> 00:34:22,041
that really understand

1854
00:34:22,041 --> 00:34:22,583
Bitcoin

1855
00:34:22,583 --> 00:34:23,541
and can can use it

1856
00:34:23,541 --> 00:34:24,500
and can self-custody,

1857
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:25,500
but the vast

1858
00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:26,416
majority of people,

1859
00:34:26,416 --> 00:34:27,375
they'll likely be hindered

1860
00:34:27,375 --> 00:34:28,416
by a lot of these rails

1861
00:34:28,416 --> 00:34:29,250
being stopped

1862
00:34:29,250 --> 00:34:30,583
from government address

1863
00:34:30,583 --> 00:34:31,541
any kind of regulation.

1864
00:34:31,541 --> 00:34:33,708
So it is incumbent on us to

1865
00:34:33,708 --> 00:34:34,375
fully understand

1866
00:34:34,375 --> 00:34:35,333
exactly what's going on,

1867
00:34:35,333 --> 00:34:36,041
or at least are

1868
00:34:36,041 --> 00:34:36,916
fully involved for it

1869
00:34:36,916 --> 00:34:37,791
so long, to

1870
00:34:37,791 --> 00:34:38,416
kind of approach it

1871
00:34:38,416 --> 00:34:39,875
more holistically, to ensure

1872
00:34:39,875 --> 00:34:40,666
that there are a lot

1873
00:34:40,666 --> 00:34:41,625
of protections specific

1874
00:34:41,625 --> 00:34:42,250
to making sure

1875
00:34:42,250 --> 00:34:43,416
that self-custody

1876
00:34:43,416 --> 00:34:44,625
is not in jeopardy,

1877
00:34:44,625 --> 00:34:45,458
making sure that people

1878
00:34:45,458 --> 00:34:46,708
still have a proper bridge

1879
00:34:46,708 --> 00:34:48,666
that's necessarily on 24/7.

1880
00:34:48,666 --> 00:34:49,375
The same with Bitcoin

1881
00:34:49,375 --> 00:34:50,958
is tied to get involved with

1882
00:34:50,958 --> 00:34:51,958
some of these risky parts

1883
00:34:51,958 --> 00:34:52,666
of Self-custody

1884
00:34:52,666 --> 00:34:53,333
all the way up to,

1885
00:34:55,083 --> 00:34:55,458
some of these

1886
00:34:55,458 --> 00:34:57,083
risky parts of,

1887
00:34:57,083 --> 00:34:58,125
custodians,

1888
00:34:58,125 --> 00:34:59,416
not self-custody.

1889
00:34:59,416 --> 00:35:01,083
So I'd say that would be one,

1890
00:35:01,083 --> 00:35:01,875
one way to approach it.

1891
00:35:01,875 --> 00:35:02,750
I think the second way

1892
00:35:02,750 --> 00:35:03,208
is from

1893
00:35:03,208 --> 00:35:05,083
the regulatory standpoint,

1894
00:35:05,083 --> 00:35:05,916
because we don't have

1895
00:35:05,916 --> 00:35:07,708
as much regulatory baggage.

1896
00:35:07,708 --> 00:35:08,333
I say really

1897
00:35:08,333 --> 00:35:09,250
most of our regulations

1898
00:35:09,250 --> 00:35:09,916
pretty much translate

1899
00:35:09,916 --> 00:35:10,500
to regulation

1900
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:11,041
from other

1901
00:35:11,041 --> 00:35:12,166
parts of the world.

1902
00:35:12,166 --> 00:35:12,750
I think we have

1903
00:35:12,750 --> 00:35:13,458
the opportunity

1904
00:35:13,458 --> 00:35:15,166
to craft novel regulation

1905
00:35:15,166 --> 00:35:15,666
in the sense

1906
00:35:15,666 --> 00:35:17,208
that it would be devoid of

1907
00:35:17,208 --> 00:35:18,041
some of the issues

1908
00:35:18,041 --> 00:35:18,500
that we're seeing

1909
00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:19,500
from other regulators

1910
00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:19,916
around the world,

1911
00:35:19,916 --> 00:35:20,750
whether it's the mica

1912
00:35:20,750 --> 00:35:21,708
regulation in Europe

1913
00:35:21,708 --> 00:35:23,500
or some of the other parts,

1914
00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:24,916
and in North America

1915
00:35:24,916 --> 00:35:26,416
with know our cliffs

1916
00:35:26,416 --> 00:35:27,458
and things like that.

1917
00:35:27,458 --> 00:35:29,250
I think for us it would be

1918
00:35:29,250 --> 00:35:30,291
we have the opportunity

1919
00:35:30,291 --> 00:35:31,125
to say, no, there would be,

1920
00:35:31,125 --> 00:35:32,083
but we have the opportunity

1921
00:35:32,083 --> 00:35:33,500
to really define

1922
00:35:33,500 --> 00:35:35,083
regulation from,

1923
00:35:35,083 --> 00:35:36,791
first principles standpoint,

1924
00:35:36,791 --> 00:35:37,916
where we're looking at

1925
00:35:37,916 --> 00:35:38,708
what is the benefit

1926
00:35:38,708 --> 00:35:39,625
on a national level,

1927
00:35:39,625 --> 00:35:40,333
what is the benefit

1928
00:35:40,333 --> 00:35:41,250
on a strategic level

1929
00:35:41,250 --> 00:35:41,541
for us,

1930
00:35:41,541 --> 00:35:42,375
economically speaking?

1931
00:35:42,375 --> 00:35:43,625
And how can we use this

1932
00:35:43,625 --> 00:35:44,416
to achieve better

1933
00:35:44,416 --> 00:35:45,416
the economic standpoint

1934
00:35:45,416 --> 00:35:46,166
or the outlook

1935
00:35:46,166 --> 00:35:47,416
for a lot of these countries?

1936
00:35:47,416 --> 00:35:48,500
And I think the other two

1937
00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:49,625
things I should see is

1938
00:35:50,666 --> 00:35:50,958
we're still

1939
00:35:50,958 --> 00:35:52,333
going to be

1940
00:35:52,333 --> 00:35:53,333
and this is my

1941
00:35:53,333 --> 00:35:54,083
personal guess.

1942
00:35:54,083 --> 00:35:55,500
And my full conviction

1943
00:35:55,500 --> 00:35:56,500
really, is that

1944
00:35:56,500 --> 00:35:57,500
Africa will be leading

1945
00:35:57,500 --> 00:35:58,583
Bitcoin development, too.

1946
00:35:58,583 --> 00:35:59,458
And I think that would have

1947
00:35:59,458 --> 00:36:00,291
huge, probably

1948
00:36:00,291 --> 00:36:01,250
even bigger implications

1949
00:36:01,250 --> 00:36:02,333
than Bitcoin mining

1950
00:36:02,333 --> 00:36:03,041
when we think of it

1951
00:36:03,041 --> 00:36:03,625
both from a

1952
00:36:03,625 --> 00:36:04,541
strategic standpoint

1953
00:36:04,541 --> 00:36:05,500
for the continent in terms

1954
00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:06,083
of making sure

1955
00:36:06,083 --> 00:36:07,583
that they can replicate

1956
00:36:07,583 --> 00:36:08,708
the same level of resiliency

1957
00:36:08,708 --> 00:36:09,291
that require

1958
00:36:09,291 --> 00:36:09,583
for us

1959
00:36:09,583 --> 00:36:10,916
to become a prosperous

1960
00:36:10,916 --> 00:36:13,083
and abundant nature, nation,

1961
00:36:13,083 --> 00:36:14,250
but also from

1962
00:36:14,250 --> 00:36:15,625
from a practical standpoint,

1963
00:36:15,625 --> 00:36:16,333
like the more

1964
00:36:16,333 --> 00:36:17,250
folks are building

1965
00:36:17,250 --> 00:36:18,125
from this part of the world,

1966
00:36:18,125 --> 00:36:18,833
the more

1967
00:36:18,833 --> 00:36:19,875
these tools and services

1968
00:36:19,875 --> 00:36:21,375
will be fit for working

1969
00:36:21,375 --> 00:36:22,291
exceptionally well

1970
00:36:22,291 --> 00:36:23,083
in the continent.

1971
00:36:23,083 --> 00:36:23,833
So I think

1972
00:36:23,833 --> 00:36:25,041
things around Bitcoin mining

1973
00:36:25,041 --> 00:36:25,958
and obviously the debate

1974
00:36:25,958 --> 00:36:27,291
with regards to

1975
00:36:27,291 --> 00:36:28,250
decentralizing Bitcoin

1976
00:36:28,250 --> 00:36:29,250
mining in general likely

1977
00:36:29,250 --> 00:36:31,333
be a consequence of the

1978
00:36:31,333 --> 00:36:32,416
the large hoards

1979
00:36:32,416 --> 00:36:33,333
of Bitcoin developers

1980
00:36:33,333 --> 00:36:33,916
will come out of this

1981
00:36:33,916 --> 00:36:34,458
part of the world

1982
00:36:34,458 --> 00:36:35,791
where we'll likely be

1983
00:36:35,791 --> 00:36:36,583
only just leading,

1984
00:36:36,583 --> 00:36:37,083
but probably

1985
00:36:37,083 --> 00:36:38,083
dictating exactly

1986
00:36:38,083 --> 00:36:38,750
what it looks like

1987
00:36:38,750 --> 00:36:39,875
to have a Bitcoin

1988
00:36:39,875 --> 00:36:40,875
nation, quote unquote,

1989
00:36:40,875 --> 00:36:42,291
as Bitcoin mining.

1990
00:36:42,291 --> 00:36:42,916
Then obviously

1991
00:36:42,916 --> 00:36:43,333
the third party

1992
00:36:43,333 --> 00:36:44,000
should be commenting.

1993
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,083
I think

1994
00:36:45,083 --> 00:36:46,375
energy is one of those things

1995
00:36:46,375 --> 00:36:47,625
that transcends

1996
00:36:47,625 --> 00:36:48,375
all sort of,

1997
00:36:48,375 --> 00:36:49,791
I guess, cultural baggage

1998
00:36:49,791 --> 00:36:51,250
or orthodoxies

1999
00:36:51,250 --> 00:36:52,291
that people typically have

2000
00:36:52,291 --> 00:36:52,708
that are

2001
00:36:52,708 --> 00:36:53,958
antagonistic to Bitcoin

2002
00:36:53,958 --> 00:36:54,708
are generally

2003
00:36:54,708 --> 00:36:56,416
aren't as receptive

2004
00:36:56,416 --> 00:36:58,250
to Bitcoin initially because

2005
00:36:58,250 --> 00:36:59,041
it's very easy

2006
00:36:59,041 --> 00:37:00,333
to connect with Bitcoin.

2007
00:37:00,333 --> 00:37:01,625
I think this is

2008
00:37:01,625 --> 00:37:02,625
currency for criminals

2009
00:37:02,625 --> 00:37:03,833
but is very difficult

2010
00:37:03,833 --> 00:37:05,208
to deny.

2011
00:37:05,208 --> 00:37:06,083
Electrification

2012
00:37:06,083 --> 00:37:06,958
for rural areas,

2013
00:37:06,958 --> 00:37:08,000
or it's very difficult

2014
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,416
to deny a huge uptick in

2015
00:37:10,416 --> 00:37:11,500
the sheer amount of a leg

2016
00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:12,375
that electricity

2017
00:37:12,375 --> 00:37:13,708
in terms of access for people

2018
00:37:13,708 --> 00:37:14,416
that previously didn't

2019
00:37:14,416 --> 00:37:14,750
have that.

2020
00:37:14,750 --> 00:37:16,625
So I think, again,

2021
00:37:16,625 --> 00:37:17,416
because the practical

2022
00:37:17,416 --> 00:37:18,583
realities of Bitcoin mining

2023
00:37:18,583 --> 00:37:20,000
and just how quickly it is,

2024
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,166
you can start from zero

2025
00:37:21,166 --> 00:37:21,666
all the way up

2026
00:37:21,666 --> 00:37:23,208
to having critical mass

2027
00:37:23,208 --> 00:37:24,083
of electrification

2028
00:37:24,083 --> 00:37:24,708
around the world

2029
00:37:24,708 --> 00:37:26,750
or just around the continent,

2030
00:37:26,750 --> 00:37:27,291
probably going to be

2031
00:37:27,291 --> 00:37:28,500
another huge traverse.

2032
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:29,333
I'd say Bitcoin

2033
00:37:29,333 --> 00:37:30,166
mining the short term

2034
00:37:30,166 --> 00:37:30,916
and then long term,

2035
00:37:30,916 --> 00:37:31,791
I think Bitcoin development

2036
00:37:31,791 --> 00:37:32,500
will outpace it in

2037
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:33,166
terms of impact.

2038
00:37:34,750 --> 00:37:35,000
Yeah.

2039
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,791
And I mean

2040
00:37:36,791 --> 00:37:37,125
there are

2041
00:37:37,125 --> 00:37:38,041
so many things

2042
00:37:38,041 --> 00:37:39,291
that tie into this and,

2043
00:37:39,291 --> 00:37:40,583
and Africa

2044
00:37:40,583 --> 00:37:40,916
is such

2045
00:37:40,916 --> 00:37:42,250
an interesting continent,

2046
00:37:42,250 --> 00:37:43,708
from so many

2047
00:37:43,708 --> 00:37:45,000
economic perspectives.

2048
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,375
I mean,

2049
00:37:46,375 --> 00:37:47,458
it's most people

2050
00:37:47,458 --> 00:37:47,958
here in Europe

2051
00:37:47,958 --> 00:37:49,583
aren't aware of how much,

2052
00:37:49,583 --> 00:37:51,416
the banks

2053
00:37:51,416 --> 00:37:52,250
and central banks

2054
00:37:52,250 --> 00:37:53,625
of, of the Western world

2055
00:37:53,625 --> 00:37:54,583
have been screwing

2056
00:37:54,583 --> 00:37:56,000
you guys over,

2057
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,583
through the IMF and stuff

2058
00:37:57,583 --> 00:37:58,125
and the

2059
00:37:58,125 --> 00:37:59,333
monetary apartheid

2060
00:37:59,333 --> 00:37:59,958
that goes on,

2061
00:37:59,958 --> 00:38:01,125
which is basically

2062
00:38:01,125 --> 00:38:01,875
just vulgar.

2063
00:38:01,875 --> 00:38:02,833
It's just

2064
00:38:02,833 --> 00:38:03,416
like, in

2065
00:38:03,416 --> 00:38:05,041
a very sneaky way,

2066
00:38:05,041 --> 00:38:06,708
stripped African countries

2067
00:38:06,708 --> 00:38:07,666
of the resources

2068
00:38:07,666 --> 00:38:08,333
and grabbing them

2069
00:38:08,333 --> 00:38:09,041
for ourselves.

2070
00:38:09,041 --> 00:38:10,000
And like Bitcoin

2071
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,000
is a true chance at,

2072
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:13,125
getting out of that.

2073
00:38:13,125 --> 00:38:14,000
So so

2074
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:14,750
my question

2075
00:38:14,750 --> 00:38:15,583
here would be like

2076
00:38:15,583 --> 00:38:16,833
how aware are

2077
00:38:16,833 --> 00:38:19,125
are the people you talk to?

2078
00:38:19,125 --> 00:38:20,208
Like how aware are

2079
00:38:20,208 --> 00:38:21,833
people in general of of

2080
00:38:23,083 --> 00:38:23,708
that they

2081
00:38:23,708 --> 00:38:25,125
are being screwed over

2082
00:38:25,125 --> 00:38:26,708
by the monetary systems?

2083
00:38:26,708 --> 00:38:27,458
I mean,

2084
00:38:27,458 --> 00:38:29,333
from a Nigerian perspective,

2085
00:38:29,333 --> 00:38:30,833
but perhaps also

2086
00:38:30,833 --> 00:38:32,208
from a more general

2087
00:38:32,208 --> 00:38:33,166
African perspective.

2088
00:38:33,166 --> 00:38:35,500
What what do you see?

2089
00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:36,166
I think generally

2090
00:38:36,166 --> 00:38:37,291
a lot of people are

2091
00:38:37,291 --> 00:38:38,000
more self-aware

2092
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:38,750
about how wealth

2093
00:38:38,750 --> 00:38:39,750
I place in the world

2094
00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:41,541
as a result of a lot of

2095
00:38:41,541 --> 00:38:42,375
issues with the crisis,

2096
00:38:42,375 --> 00:38:43,458
especially in Nigeria.

2097
00:38:43,458 --> 00:38:44,500
Yes, being an

2098
00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:45,875
engine is itself

2099
00:38:45,875 --> 00:38:47,208
kind of a huge liability

2100
00:38:47,208 --> 00:38:48,166
if you're trying to interact

2101
00:38:48,166 --> 00:38:49,625
with the rest of the world.

2102
00:38:49,625 --> 00:38:50,958
I mean, all the way from

2103
00:38:50,958 --> 00:38:52,666
actual travel visas

2104
00:38:52,666 --> 00:38:53,166
all the way up

2105
00:38:53,166 --> 00:38:54,291
to a bank account,

2106
00:38:54,291 --> 00:38:55,250
starting businesses,

2107
00:38:55,250 --> 00:38:56,000
all that kind of stuff.

2108
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,333
So I think a lot of people

2109
00:38:57,333 --> 00:38:58,625
already are aware, like,

2110
00:38:58,625 --> 00:38:59,250
it doesn't take

2111
00:38:59,250 --> 00:39:00,416
too long as a manager

2112
00:39:00,416 --> 00:39:00,916
to know that

2113
00:39:00,916 --> 00:39:01,583
you're a Nigerian

2114
00:39:03,083 --> 00:39:03,291
and the

2115
00:39:03,291 --> 00:39:04,625
consequences of that,

2116
00:39:04,625 --> 00:39:05,333
I think more so

2117
00:39:05,333 --> 00:39:07,333
on the economic side.

2118
00:39:07,333 --> 00:39:08,416
We're definitely fully aware

2119
00:39:08,416 --> 00:39:09,375
of where we are

2120
00:39:09,375 --> 00:39:10,750
in terms of having

2121
00:39:10,750 --> 00:39:11,750
extractive policies,

2122
00:39:11,750 --> 00:39:14,291
and it's kind of twofold like

2123
00:39:14,291 --> 00:39:14,833
it's definitely

2124
00:39:14,833 --> 00:39:15,458
one of those things

2125
00:39:15,458 --> 00:39:16,791
where it's,

2126
00:39:16,791 --> 00:39:18,000
it's a mutual symbiosis

2127
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:18,583
in my opinion.

2128
00:39:18,583 --> 00:39:19,041
A lot of people

2129
00:39:19,041 --> 00:39:19,625
are aware of that.

2130
00:39:19,625 --> 00:39:21,041
So one side

2131
00:39:21,041 --> 00:39:22,666
is obviously folks coming in

2132
00:39:22,666 --> 00:39:23,208
to extract

2133
00:39:23,208 --> 00:39:23,916
all the opportunity

2134
00:39:23,916 --> 00:39:24,583
and then turn around

2135
00:39:24,583 --> 00:39:26,625
and say the,

2136
00:39:26,625 --> 00:39:28,000
the nation is kind of poor

2137
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,958
and destitute, which

2138
00:39:29,958 --> 00:39:30,666
it's akin

2139
00:39:30,666 --> 00:39:31,875
to having rich people

2140
00:39:31,875 --> 00:39:33,000
always going to a dumpster

2141
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,416
to pretty much increase

2142
00:39:34,416 --> 00:39:34,875
their wealth.

2143
00:39:34,875 --> 00:39:35,875
Like it makes no sense.

2144
00:39:35,875 --> 00:39:36,833
So there's definitely

2145
00:39:36,833 --> 00:39:37,583
no truth to

2146
00:39:37,583 --> 00:39:38,250
to the whole

2147
00:39:38,250 --> 00:39:39,875
it being a poor continent,

2148
00:39:39,875 --> 00:39:40,958
because

2149
00:39:40,958 --> 00:39:41,625
you wouldn't necessarily

2150
00:39:41,625 --> 00:39:42,291
be extracting

2151
00:39:42,291 --> 00:39:44,083
well from a poor continent.

2152
00:39:44,083 --> 00:39:44,958
And I think the other

2153
00:39:44,958 --> 00:39:45,458
the other part

2154
00:39:45,458 --> 00:39:46,125
I should mention that

2155
00:39:46,125 --> 00:39:47,083
a lot of people are aware of

2156
00:39:47,083 --> 00:39:48,291
is that

2157
00:39:48,291 --> 00:39:49,500
which is why is mutual.

2158
00:39:49,500 --> 00:39:50,041
My opinion

2159
00:39:50,041 --> 00:39:51,375
is a lot of the folks

2160
00:39:51,375 --> 00:39:51,833
on the ground

2161
00:39:51,833 --> 00:39:52,583
that already see

2162
00:39:52,583 --> 00:39:54,708
this chaos that we've created

2163
00:39:54,708 --> 00:39:55,583
over the

2164
00:39:55,583 --> 00:39:56,416
last couple of decades,

2165
00:39:56,416 --> 00:39:57,250
I see,

2166
00:39:57,250 --> 00:40:00,166
because of a century ish, is

2167
00:40:00,166 --> 00:40:00,791
because there's

2168
00:40:00,791 --> 00:40:01,583
so many things

2169
00:40:01,583 --> 00:40:02,875
that are not working

2170
00:40:02,875 --> 00:40:04,125
well on the continent,

2171
00:40:04,125 --> 00:40:05,041
all the way from governance

2172
00:40:05,041 --> 00:40:06,583
to economics.

2173
00:40:06,583 --> 00:40:08,416
A lot of people have

2174
00:40:08,416 --> 00:40:10,083
gone into

2175
00:40:10,083 --> 00:40:11,458
what I would see is like the

2176
00:40:12,666 --> 00:40:13,291
rent seeking

2177
00:40:13,291 --> 00:40:14,208
class, which is

2178
00:40:14,208 --> 00:40:16,125
pretty much a class of folks

2179
00:40:16,125 --> 00:40:16,791
in Africa

2180
00:40:16,791 --> 00:40:18,375
who use Africa

2181
00:40:18,375 --> 00:40:19,375
as a general banner

2182
00:40:19,375 --> 00:40:20,958
to masquerade,

2183
00:40:20,958 --> 00:40:21,583
as trying to help

2184
00:40:21,583 --> 00:40:22,166
the continent,

2185
00:40:22,166 --> 00:40:22,708
but really,

2186
00:40:22,708 --> 00:40:23,083
how they're doing

2187
00:40:23,083 --> 00:40:24,708
is using Africa as this,

2188
00:40:24,708 --> 00:40:25,625
marketing campaign

2189
00:40:25,625 --> 00:40:26,833
for them to either

2190
00:40:26,833 --> 00:40:27,375
reach some sales

2191
00:40:27,375 --> 00:40:29,541
personally or get get into,

2192
00:40:29,541 --> 00:40:30,708
I guess

2193
00:40:30,708 --> 00:40:31,458
all the other rooms

2194
00:40:31,458 --> 00:40:31,916
and places

2195
00:40:31,916 --> 00:40:33,625
where, folks make decisions

2196
00:40:33,625 --> 00:40:34,041
about where

2197
00:40:34,041 --> 00:40:34,875
they're extracting

2198
00:40:34,875 --> 00:40:35,958
resources from Africa.

2199
00:40:35,958 --> 00:40:37,250
So this is mutual

2200
00:40:37,250 --> 00:40:37,666
in the sense

2201
00:40:37,666 --> 00:40:38,125
that both from

2202
00:40:38,125 --> 00:40:38,833
the outside, there's

2203
00:40:38,833 --> 00:40:40,000
this obvious

2204
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:40,875
opportunity to you

2205
00:40:40,875 --> 00:40:42,083
Africans potential

2206
00:40:42,083 --> 00:40:42,416
where it's

2207
00:40:42,416 --> 00:40:44,000
been completely extracted.

2208
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:44,583
But internally,

2209
00:40:44,583 --> 00:40:46,000
there are a lot of folks that

2210
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,000
I shouldn't say really a lot,

2211
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,291
but they're folks

2212
00:40:48,291 --> 00:40:48,958
that are in places

2213
00:40:48,958 --> 00:40:49,583
where they could do

2214
00:40:49,583 --> 00:40:50,416
a lot more damage

2215
00:40:50,416 --> 00:40:51,208
than just

2216
00:40:51,208 --> 00:40:51,833
a critical mass

2217
00:40:51,833 --> 00:40:53,416
of like people

2218
00:40:53,416 --> 00:40:54,666
that do indulge themselves

2219
00:40:54,666 --> 00:40:56,291
in this as well, in terms of

2220
00:40:56,291 --> 00:40:57,166
just trying to make a quick

2221
00:40:57,166 --> 00:40:58,083
buck off of their own

2222
00:40:58,083 --> 00:40:58,875
continent as well.

2223
00:40:58,875 --> 00:41:00,750
So that is a mix of the two,

2224
00:41:00,750 --> 00:41:01,125
which is why

2225
00:41:01,125 --> 00:41:02,125
it's very complex

2226
00:41:02,125 --> 00:41:03,583
in terms of rooting out

2227
00:41:03,583 --> 00:41:04,333
corruption fully

2228
00:41:04,333 --> 00:41:05,458
and over the years,

2229
00:41:05,458 --> 00:41:06,500
I've come to realize that

2230
00:41:06,500 --> 00:41:08,333
corruption isn't necessarily

2231
00:41:08,333 --> 00:41:09,500
the biggest issue in Africa

2232
00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:09,833
is really

2233
00:41:09,833 --> 00:41:11,583
that the whole renting class

2234
00:41:11,583 --> 00:41:12,833
and the

2235
00:41:12,833 --> 00:41:14,041
class of entitled folks

2236
00:41:14,041 --> 00:41:15,000
also on the continent

2237
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:16,250
and just a class of folks

2238
00:41:16,250 --> 00:41:16,958
that feel

2239
00:41:16,958 --> 00:41:17,416
the status

2240
00:41:17,416 --> 00:41:18,333
quo is good enough

2241
00:41:18,333 --> 00:41:19,041
for them, given

2242
00:41:19,041 --> 00:41:20,000
the fact that they continue

2243
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:20,750
to enrich themselves.

2244
00:41:20,750 --> 00:41:21,833
I pretty much don't care

2245
00:41:21,833 --> 00:41:22,791
about the next generation.

2246
00:41:22,791 --> 00:41:23,833
I think that's a bigger issue

2247
00:41:23,833 --> 00:41:24,666
than corruption, because

2248
00:41:25,666 --> 00:41:26,541
corruption is a general

2249
00:41:26,541 --> 00:41:27,625
problem for all countries.

2250
00:41:27,625 --> 00:41:29,208
So does it make sense for it

2251
00:41:29,208 --> 00:41:30,291
to be zoned in

2252
00:41:30,291 --> 00:41:30,958
as one of the reasons

2253
00:41:30,958 --> 00:41:32,083
why we're not

2254
00:41:32,083 --> 00:41:33,041
where we're supposed to be?

2255
00:41:33,041 --> 00:41:33,791
Because other parts

2256
00:41:33,791 --> 00:41:34,083
are also

2257
00:41:34,083 --> 00:41:35,000
corrupt, undeveloped.

2258
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,166
So I don't think there's

2259
00:41:36,166 --> 00:41:37,083
that main issue

2260
00:41:37,083 --> 00:41:37,708
that a lot of people

2261
00:41:37,708 --> 00:41:38,791
hamper on on the continent.

2262
00:41:38,791 --> 00:41:40,500
But essentially my $0.02

2263
00:41:40,500 --> 00:41:40,875
when it comes

2264
00:41:40,875 --> 00:41:42,291
to that conversation,

2265
00:41:42,291 --> 00:41:42,625
I mean,

2266
00:41:42,625 --> 00:41:44,916
from a certain, angle

2267
00:41:44,916 --> 00:41:46,416
that is corruption, right?

2268
00:41:46,416 --> 00:41:47,958
But like using

2269
00:41:47,958 --> 00:41:48,958
state resources

2270
00:41:48,958 --> 00:41:50,000
for your own, like,

2271
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:50,875
like there's

2272
00:41:50,875 --> 00:41:53,875
no way to, to use,

2273
00:41:54,833 --> 00:41:55,583
you know,

2274
00:41:55,583 --> 00:41:57,833
the money

2275
00:41:57,833 --> 00:41:59,583
gained from theft as,

2276
00:41:59,583 --> 00:42:00,708
as for anything

2277
00:42:00,708 --> 00:42:01,750
without really

2278
00:42:01,750 --> 00:42:02,416
being corrupt,

2279
00:42:02,416 --> 00:42:03,375
like, at some level.

2280
00:42:03,375 --> 00:42:04,250
Like, where do you draw

2281
00:42:04,250 --> 00:42:05,625
the line?

2282
00:42:05,625 --> 00:42:06,958
There's always,

2283
00:42:06,958 --> 00:42:08,541
I always struggle with his

2284
00:42:08,541 --> 00:42:09,500
questions, like,

2285
00:42:10,833 --> 00:42:12,458
if it's tax funded, isn't

2286
00:42:12,458 --> 00:42:13,000
it corrupt

2287
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,083
by its very nature?

2288
00:42:14,083 --> 00:42:15,916
I mean, there's.

2289
00:42:15,916 --> 00:42:18,291
Yeah, long in the Congo.

2290
00:42:18,291 --> 00:42:20,000
Yeah.

2291
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:20,916
Well, I mean, think of it

2292
00:42:20,916 --> 00:42:21,208
this way.

2293
00:42:21,208 --> 00:42:22,250
Like it'd be told

2294
00:42:22,250 --> 00:42:23,583
if we did have

2295
00:42:23,583 --> 00:42:24,125
the institutions

2296
00:42:24,125 --> 00:42:25,125
of governance that worked

2297
00:42:25,125 --> 00:42:27,416
well in terms of

2298
00:42:27,416 --> 00:42:28,916
succession plans with regards

2299
00:42:28,916 --> 00:42:29,458
to actually being

2300
00:42:29,458 --> 00:42:30,375
a proper democracy.

2301
00:42:30,375 --> 00:42:31,750
I think a lot of the issues

2302
00:42:31,750 --> 00:42:32,791
will be

2303
00:42:32,791 --> 00:42:33,708
not as difficult

2304
00:42:33,708 --> 00:42:35,041
as they actually are

2305
00:42:35,041 --> 00:42:36,000
in terms of just the sheer

2306
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,458
mix of convolution

2307
00:42:37,458 --> 00:42:38,041
on the continent.

2308
00:42:38,041 --> 00:42:38,708
So that's what I mean.

2309
00:42:38,708 --> 00:42:39,125
Typically,

2310
00:42:39,125 --> 00:42:40,208
when I say corruption

2311
00:42:40,208 --> 00:42:41,000
isn't the only thing,

2312
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:41,500
because if we had

2313
00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:42,750
strong institutions,

2314
00:42:42,750 --> 00:42:43,416
a lot of the corruption

2315
00:42:43,416 --> 00:42:44,416
would naturally be weeded out

2316
00:42:44,416 --> 00:42:44,916
by the fact

2317
00:42:44,916 --> 00:42:46,000
that there is structure.

2318
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,000
The lack of structure is why

2319
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,125
there is this man

2320
00:42:48,125 --> 00:42:49,333
to show corruption going on.

2321
00:42:50,958 --> 00:42:51,541
Yeah.

2322
00:42:51,541 --> 00:42:53,625
I saw a

2323
00:42:53,625 --> 00:42:55,250
documentary about my diarrhea

2324
00:42:55,250 --> 00:42:56,416
once where they had to.

2325
00:42:56,416 --> 00:42:57,708
They were interviewing

2326
00:42:57,708 --> 00:42:58,583
the minister,

2327
00:42:58,583 --> 00:43:01,583
who was, tasked with,

2328
00:43:01,583 --> 00:43:02,791
dealing with the corruption.

2329
00:43:02,791 --> 00:43:04,125
And they had to bribe

2330
00:43:04,125 --> 00:43:05,833
his guards to get in,

2331
00:43:05,833 --> 00:43:06,791
get the building

2332
00:43:06,791 --> 00:43:08,375
into the interview, and then.

2333
00:43:08,375 --> 00:43:09,166
Father.

2334
00:43:09,166 --> 00:43:11,083
But, you know, that is.

2335
00:43:11,083 --> 00:43:11,333
Yeah.

2336
00:43:11,333 --> 00:43:12,500
Money works in this area

2337
00:43:12,500 --> 00:43:13,750
and a lot of parts in Africa.

2338
00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:15,291
So it's

2339
00:43:15,291 --> 00:43:15,666
not always

2340
00:43:15,666 --> 00:43:17,291
for the right reasons.

2341
00:43:17,291 --> 00:43:18,750
Now,

2342
00:43:18,750 --> 00:43:20,875
oral questions.

2343
00:43:20,875 --> 00:43:23,166
Luke, do you have any.

2344
00:43:23,166 --> 00:43:23,625
Yeah.

2345
00:43:23,625 --> 00:43:24,875
No, just a,

2346
00:43:24,875 --> 00:43:26,208
ticket to continue

2347
00:43:26,208 --> 00:43:27,666
on, on this thread

2348
00:43:27,666 --> 00:43:29,000
a little bit like,

2349
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,041
I think a narrative

2350
00:43:30,041 --> 00:43:31,208
that's big in,

2351
00:43:31,208 --> 00:43:34,208
say more North American.

2352
00:43:35,166 --> 00:43:37,000
Western Bitcoin circles

2353
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:37,583
or even just

2354
00:43:37,583 --> 00:43:38,541
the Twittersphere

2355
00:43:38,541 --> 00:43:39,333
generally is this

2356
00:43:39,333 --> 00:43:40,208
trend towards

2357
00:43:40,208 --> 00:43:41,666
an article capitalism,

2358
00:43:41,666 --> 00:43:42,458
in other words,

2359
00:43:42,458 --> 00:43:43,541
basically the exact

2360
00:43:43,541 --> 00:43:44,416
opposite of what you're

2361
00:43:44,416 --> 00:43:44,750
what you're

2362
00:43:44,750 --> 00:43:45,666
talking about that

2363
00:43:45,666 --> 00:43:46,875
that,

2364
00:43:46,875 --> 00:43:48,500
having strong institutions

2365
00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:49,791
as, as the counter

2366
00:43:49,791 --> 00:43:51,375
to corruption on,

2367
00:43:51,375 --> 00:43:53,458
on when I say

2368
00:43:53,458 --> 00:43:54,083
cultural level,

2369
00:43:54,083 --> 00:43:54,666
I don't mean this

2370
00:43:54,666 --> 00:43:56,583
in like the, the sense of,

2371
00:43:56,583 --> 00:43:58,583
that that

2372
00:43:58,583 --> 00:43:59,541
any one part of the world

2373
00:43:59,541 --> 00:44:00,541
is particularly

2374
00:44:00,541 --> 00:44:01,041
prone to this.

2375
00:44:01,041 --> 00:44:01,708
I mean, I mean, just,

2376
00:44:01,708 --> 00:44:02,333
I mean, just that

2377
00:44:02,333 --> 00:44:03,041
in a certain place,

2378
00:44:03,041 --> 00:44:04,291
there's a, a culture

2379
00:44:04,291 --> 00:44:05,625
of strong institutions like,

2380
00:44:05,625 --> 00:44:06,166
traditional,

2381
00:44:06,166 --> 00:44:07,000
strong institutions

2382
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:07,666
as part of the better way

2383
00:44:07,666 --> 00:44:08,541
to say it.

2384
00:44:08,541 --> 00:44:09,833
And so

2385
00:44:09,833 --> 00:44:10,375
and so the,

2386
00:44:10,375 --> 00:44:11,625
the sort of the anarcho

2387
00:44:11,625 --> 00:44:12,583
capitalist,

2388
00:44:12,583 --> 00:44:14,250
ultra libertarian perspective

2389
00:44:14,250 --> 00:44:15,708
where the end goal is

2390
00:44:15,708 --> 00:44:17,166
everyone adopts Bitcoin

2391
00:44:17,166 --> 00:44:17,750
and all the

2392
00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:18,791
governments go away.

2393
00:44:20,083 --> 00:44:20,750
How do you see

2394
00:44:20,750 --> 00:44:23,708
that in practice? Maybe.

2395
00:44:23,708 --> 00:44:24,416
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2396
00:44:24,416 --> 00:44:25,333
You're already laughing.

2397
00:44:25,333 --> 00:44:26,000
So what are your

2398
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,583
thoughts on this?

2399
00:44:27,583 --> 00:44:28,208
I mean,

2400
00:44:28,208 --> 00:44:29,083
I'd like

2401
00:44:29,083 --> 00:44:29,333
from a

2402
00:44:29,333 --> 00:44:30,333
philosophical standpoint,

2403
00:44:30,333 --> 00:44:32,166
I do

2404
00:44:32,166 --> 00:44:33,166
I do kind of sympathize

2405
00:44:33,166 --> 00:44:34,125
with the general

2406
00:44:34,125 --> 00:44:36,416
I cook up to this mindset or

2407
00:44:36,416 --> 00:44:38,291
I guess the

2408
00:44:38,291 --> 00:44:39,500
what is now the orthodoxy,

2409
00:44:39,500 --> 00:44:40,916
which is from the heterodoxy

2410
00:44:40,916 --> 00:44:41,958
generally that Bitcoin

2411
00:44:41,958 --> 00:44:43,250
was breath out of.

2412
00:44:43,250 --> 00:44:44,583
I think I totally get it.

2413
00:44:44,583 --> 00:44:45,833
I get the understanding

2414
00:44:45,833 --> 00:44:47,041
and I feel

2415
00:44:47,041 --> 00:44:47,708
free to have

2416
00:44:47,708 --> 00:44:48,791
a prosperous society.

2417
00:44:48,791 --> 00:44:49,791
Definitely have to have that

2418
00:44:49,791 --> 00:44:52,208
that level of,

2419
00:44:52,208 --> 00:44:52,666
free will

2420
00:44:52,666 --> 00:44:53,708
that's needed by the state

2421
00:44:53,708 --> 00:44:54,708
to the people

2422
00:44:54,708 --> 00:44:55,583
for it to be prosperous.

2423
00:44:55,583 --> 00:44:57,250
But at the same time,

2424
00:44:57,250 --> 00:44:59,416
I, I do recognize the,

2425
00:44:59,416 --> 00:45:01,291
the use of purpose of a state

2426
00:45:01,291 --> 00:45:01,916
in terms

2427
00:45:01,916 --> 00:45:04,125
of just keeping the quality,

2428
00:45:04,125 --> 00:45:05,458
keeping folks in check

2429
00:45:05,458 --> 00:45:06,541
and all those kind of things.

2430
00:45:06,541 --> 00:45:08,541
So I think what the guys of

2431
00:45:08,541 --> 00:45:10,000
the world like Africa, it's

2432
00:45:11,541 --> 00:45:12,625
naturally because of some of

2433
00:45:12,625 --> 00:45:13,208
the cultures

2434
00:45:13,208 --> 00:45:14,333
that we have in terms

2435
00:45:14,333 --> 00:45:16,583
of being community driven and

2436
00:45:16,583 --> 00:45:18,458
and being a lot more,

2437
00:45:18,458 --> 00:45:19,500
less about the individual

2438
00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:19,875
as it is

2439
00:45:19,875 --> 00:45:20,958
in Western parts

2440
00:45:20,958 --> 00:45:21,333
of the world.

2441
00:45:21,333 --> 00:45:22,958
The more about the community,

2442
00:45:22,958 --> 00:45:23,625
I think where you have

2443
00:45:23,625 --> 00:45:24,375
those sure

2444
00:45:24,375 --> 00:45:26,833
set of values as like a,

2445
00:45:26,833 --> 00:45:28,041
I should say a springboard

2446
00:45:28,041 --> 00:45:29,083
in which we can architect

2447
00:45:29,083 --> 00:45:29,583
a society

2448
00:45:29,583 --> 00:45:30,583
that's a lot more equitable

2449
00:45:30,583 --> 00:45:31,250
than typically

2450
00:45:31,250 --> 00:45:32,541
what we have right now.

2451
00:45:32,541 --> 00:45:33,208
I'm just providing

2452
00:45:33,208 --> 00:45:33,833
sure opportunity

2453
00:45:33,833 --> 00:45:35,000
then I don't mean equity

2454
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:35,458
in the sense

2455
00:45:35,458 --> 00:45:37,083
of like bringing others

2456
00:45:37,083 --> 00:45:37,791
down to bring them

2457
00:45:37,791 --> 00:45:38,541
to the same level

2458
00:45:38,541 --> 00:45:39,208
of other people,

2459
00:45:39,208 --> 00:45:40,333
or just like forcing people

2460
00:45:40,333 --> 00:45:40,791
in the past

2461
00:45:40,791 --> 00:45:41,375
that either

2462
00:45:41,375 --> 00:45:42,583
they don't fit or belong to,

2463
00:45:42,583 --> 00:45:43,500
but I mean,

2464
00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:44,541
allowing for opportunities

2465
00:45:44,541 --> 00:45:44,958
for people

2466
00:45:44,958 --> 00:45:46,041
to navigate themselves

2467
00:45:46,041 --> 00:45:46,458
and choose

2468
00:45:46,458 --> 00:45:48,083
pathways in particular,

2469
00:45:48,083 --> 00:45:48,916
or then they

2470
00:45:48,916 --> 00:45:49,708
kinda are right now.

2471
00:45:49,708 --> 00:45:51,833
So I see a good mix of having

2472
00:45:53,125 --> 00:45:54,375
currently the cultural,

2473
00:45:54,375 --> 00:45:55,833
I guess, heritage

2474
00:45:55,833 --> 00:45:56,208
that we have

2475
00:45:56,208 --> 00:45:57,458
as a, as a continent

2476
00:45:57,458 --> 00:45:59,208
is going to be a lot more

2477
00:45:59,208 --> 00:46:00,500
is going to be the reason why

2478
00:46:00,500 --> 00:46:01,458
building these institutions

2479
00:46:01,458 --> 00:46:01,875
will be a lot

2480
00:46:01,875 --> 00:46:03,166
more fruitful of an endeavor

2481
00:46:03,166 --> 00:46:04,333
than is kind of

2482
00:46:04,333 --> 00:46:05,500
seeing other Western parts

2483
00:46:05,500 --> 00:46:07,291
where it's like this,

2484
00:46:07,291 --> 00:46:08,208
I guess this quagmire

2485
00:46:08,208 --> 00:46:09,083
where the state

2486
00:46:09,083 --> 00:46:10,125
is fully serving

2487
00:46:10,125 --> 00:46:11,250
its own interest versus

2488
00:46:11,250 --> 00:46:12,833
the interest of the people.

2489
00:46:12,833 --> 00:46:13,458
So I think that

2490
00:46:13,458 --> 00:46:13,875
there's definitely

2491
00:46:13,875 --> 00:46:14,666
a lot of middle ground

2492
00:46:14,666 --> 00:46:15,416
that we could

2493
00:46:15,416 --> 00:46:16,250
architect really

2494
00:46:16,250 --> 00:46:16,875
from the ground up

2495
00:46:16,875 --> 00:46:17,375
in a lot

2496
00:46:17,375 --> 00:46:18,166
of African countries.

2497
00:46:18,166 --> 00:46:19,500
And one thing I would say is

2498
00:46:19,500 --> 00:46:21,416
it doesn't take as much time

2499
00:46:21,416 --> 00:46:24,416
as to think like there is

2500
00:46:24,708 --> 00:46:25,333
this idea

2501
00:46:25,333 --> 00:46:26,750
that people have in general

2502
00:46:26,750 --> 00:46:27,958
where it's like for a state

2503
00:46:27,958 --> 00:46:29,625
to be devoid of corruption

2504
00:46:29,625 --> 00:46:30,375
or for a state

2505
00:46:30,375 --> 00:46:31,250
to be prosperous, it's

2506
00:46:31,250 --> 00:46:31,875
going to take like

2507
00:46:31,875 --> 00:46:32,708
a whole century

2508
00:46:32,708 --> 00:46:33,458
or something like that.

2509
00:46:33,458 --> 00:46:35,416
But we have such sheer

2510
00:46:35,416 --> 00:46:35,791
chaos,

2511
00:46:35,791 --> 00:46:37,083
like the sum of the benefits

2512
00:46:37,083 --> 00:46:38,416
of a complex dynamic system.

2513
00:46:38,416 --> 00:46:40,166
Such one is

2514
00:46:40,166 --> 00:46:40,708
that the sheer

2515
00:46:40,708 --> 00:46:42,625
complexity is wired,

2516
00:46:42,625 --> 00:46:44,208
unable to predict

2517
00:46:44,208 --> 00:46:44,875
the duration

2518
00:46:44,875 --> 00:46:45,666
or the requirement

2519
00:46:45,666 --> 00:46:46,541
in terms of time

2520
00:46:46,541 --> 00:46:47,708
that things can get better

2521
00:46:47,708 --> 00:46:49,250
or could get even worse.

2522
00:46:49,250 --> 00:46:50,208
I think it's it's

2523
00:46:50,208 --> 00:46:51,625
it's a double edged sword,

2524
00:46:51,625 --> 00:46:53,208
like because of how complex

2525
00:46:53,208 --> 00:46:54,041
it is on the continent.

2526
00:46:54,041 --> 00:46:55,208
Like things can go really bad

2527
00:46:55,208 --> 00:46:55,791
really quickly

2528
00:46:55,791 --> 00:46:56,958
and can also go really good.

2529
00:46:56,958 --> 00:46:57,458
Right.

2530
00:46:57,458 --> 00:46:58,666
So I think I'm

2531
00:46:58,666 --> 00:46:59,541
a lot of optimism

2532
00:46:59,541 --> 00:47:00,750
in terms of

2533
00:47:00,750 --> 00:47:01,291
having a lot

2534
00:47:01,291 --> 00:47:02,750
more prosperous countries

2535
00:47:02,750 --> 00:47:04,333
come out of Africa and

2536
00:47:04,333 --> 00:47:05,250
honestly get to the point

2537
00:47:05,250 --> 00:47:06,250
where they'll likely be

2538
00:47:06,250 --> 00:47:06,916
because of hope

2539
00:47:06,916 --> 00:47:07,833
for other parts of the world.

2540
00:47:07,833 --> 00:47:08,083
I know

2541
00:47:08,083 --> 00:47:08,625
that sounds like

2542
00:47:08,625 --> 00:47:09,291
wishful thinking

2543
00:47:09,291 --> 00:47:10,208
for a lot of folks to see,

2544
00:47:10,208 --> 00:47:11,333
but I generally believe

2545
00:47:11,333 --> 00:47:11,958
in this fully

2546
00:47:11,958 --> 00:47:12,791
and wholeheartedly,

2547
00:47:12,791 --> 00:47:13,291
and I

2548
00:47:13,291 --> 00:47:14,833
feel one of the reasons why

2549
00:47:14,833 --> 00:47:15,291
this is going to be

2550
00:47:15,291 --> 00:47:16,208
a practical reality.

2551
00:47:16,208 --> 00:47:17,000
The city wants

2552
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:18,708
in the last 50, 60 years

2553
00:47:18,708 --> 00:47:19,916
from continent

2554
00:47:19,916 --> 00:47:20,750
was pretty much

2555
00:47:20,750 --> 00:47:21,833
a whole bunch of promises

2556
00:47:21,833 --> 00:47:22,625
or buncha

2557
00:47:22,625 --> 00:47:23,416
promising figures

2558
00:47:23,416 --> 00:47:24,833
that have been killed.

2559
00:47:24,833 --> 00:47:26,541
So lots of other reasons.

2560
00:47:26,541 --> 00:47:28,041
I think Bitcoin

2561
00:47:28,041 --> 00:47:29,416
does play a huge part

2562
00:47:29,416 --> 00:47:31,458
because of two things like

2563
00:47:31,458 --> 00:47:32,500
figuring out energy

2564
00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:33,375
and money is probably

2565
00:47:33,375 --> 00:47:33,875
one of the

2566
00:47:33,875 --> 00:47:34,791
the core pieces

2567
00:47:34,791 --> 00:47:35,541
for architecting

2568
00:47:35,541 --> 00:47:35,833
any sort

2569
00:47:35,833 --> 00:47:36,708
of prosperous nation.

2570
00:47:36,708 --> 00:47:38,875
So I feel having this tool

2571
00:47:38,875 --> 00:47:39,583
now does

2572
00:47:39,583 --> 00:47:40,708
give us an opportunity

2573
00:47:40,708 --> 00:47:41,916
to leapfrog

2574
00:47:41,916 --> 00:47:43,000
a lot of the barriers

2575
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:43,791
that we previously had

2576
00:47:43,791 --> 00:47:44,875
and get to the point

2577
00:47:44,875 --> 00:47:45,416
where we're

2578
00:47:45,416 --> 00:47:46,250
not only just prosperous,

2579
00:47:46,250 --> 00:47:46,791
but we're living

2580
00:47:46,791 --> 00:47:47,333
well in terms

2581
00:47:47,333 --> 00:47:47,583
of what

2582
00:47:47,583 --> 00:47:48,708
it should be,

2583
00:47:48,708 --> 00:47:49,916
in terms of prosperity,

2584
00:47:49,916 --> 00:47:51,375
down in like 2050s

2585
00:47:51,375 --> 00:47:51,958
all the way up to

2586
00:47:51,958 --> 00:47:53,083
the 2100 onward.

2587
00:47:55,208 --> 00:47:55,416
Yeah.

2588
00:47:55,416 --> 00:47:55,875
And, you know, I,

2589
00:47:55,875 --> 00:47:57,000
I,

2590
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:57,791
I've been seeing

2591
00:47:57,791 --> 00:47:58,500
this as a trend

2592
00:47:58,500 --> 00:47:59,291
even in mainstream

2593
00:47:59,291 --> 00:47:59,875
media about

2594
00:47:59,875 --> 00:48:01,625
how about how

2595
00:48:01,625 --> 00:48:04,625
Africa is really set to boom,

2596
00:48:04,875 --> 00:48:05,625
basically.

2597
00:48:05,625 --> 00:48:06,500
And, and

2598
00:48:06,500 --> 00:48:07,000
I mean,

2599
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:08,333
it's it's interesting

2600
00:48:08,333 --> 00:48:09,166
how Bitcoin

2601
00:48:09,166 --> 00:48:10,458
is dovetailing with that,

2602
00:48:10,458 --> 00:48:11,750
but in a different way

2603
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:12,583
than necessarily

2604
00:48:12,583 --> 00:48:14,583
we see in in countries

2605
00:48:14,583 --> 00:48:15,500
that don't necessarily

2606
00:48:15,500 --> 00:48:17,000
have the same set of needs.

2607
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:17,708
I mean,

2608
00:48:17,708 --> 00:48:18,625
there

2609
00:48:18,625 --> 00:48:20,791
being, a lot of great,

2610
00:48:20,791 --> 00:48:22,500
well,

2611
00:48:22,500 --> 00:48:24,291
books and podcasts and stuff

2612
00:48:24,291 --> 00:48:25,166
talking about

2613
00:48:25,166 --> 00:48:27,291
basically the, the,

2614
00:48:27,291 --> 00:48:28,583
the different

2615
00:48:28,583 --> 00:48:29,750
set of needs that,

2616
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:31,291
that Bitcoin is fulfilling,

2617
00:48:31,291 --> 00:48:32,333
in Africa

2618
00:48:32,333 --> 00:48:33,208
and other parts of the world

2619
00:48:33,208 --> 00:48:34,125
that are poorer

2620
00:48:34,125 --> 00:48:35,750
than, than America,

2621
00:48:35,750 --> 00:48:37,000
than other Western countries.

2622
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,666
And,

2623
00:48:39,666 --> 00:48:40,458
how do you think

2624
00:48:40,458 --> 00:48:41,500
how do you think this is,

2625
00:48:41,500 --> 00:48:42,708
is playing out

2626
00:48:42,708 --> 00:48:44,083
with the

2627
00:48:44,083 --> 00:48:45,208
the price increasing

2628
00:48:45,208 --> 00:48:47,083
so much of, of Bitcoin,

2629
00:48:47,083 --> 00:48:48,083
there's there's definitely

2630
00:48:48,083 --> 00:48:49,166
been some in the space

2631
00:48:49,166 --> 00:48:49,958
that have

2632
00:48:49,958 --> 00:48:51,500
actually moved away from,

2633
00:48:51,500 --> 00:48:53,875
from Bitcoin itself into shit

2634
00:48:53,875 --> 00:48:55,125
coins or,

2635
00:48:55,125 --> 00:48:56,583
or abandoned

2636
00:48:56,583 --> 00:48:59,000
crypto altogether basically.

2637
00:49:01,333 --> 00:49:03,000
Because because of

2638
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,041
that basically that,

2639
00:49:04,041 --> 00:49:05,125
that it's not,

2640
00:49:05,125 --> 00:49:06,666
it's not really useful

2641
00:49:06,666 --> 00:49:07,583
for people.

2642
00:49:07,583 --> 00:49:11,875
It, it's not usable

2643
00:49:11,875 --> 00:49:13,041
as a medium of exchange.

2644
00:49:13,041 --> 00:49:14,750
So what do you think of that

2645
00:49:14,750 --> 00:49:16,041
narrative in it?

2646
00:49:16,041 --> 00:49:17,125
Is there,

2647
00:49:17,125 --> 00:49:18,833
is there any truth

2648
00:49:18,833 --> 00:49:20,541
to to what they're saying?

2649
00:49:20,541 --> 00:49:22,750
From the perspective of, of

2650
00:49:22,750 --> 00:49:23,666
Africa versus

2651
00:49:23,666 --> 00:49:25,916
the Western world?

2652
00:49:25,916 --> 00:49:26,208
Yeah.

2653
00:49:26,208 --> 00:49:26,833
So I think

2654
00:49:26,833 --> 00:49:27,500
there are a lot of things

2655
00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:27,833
that play

2656
00:49:27,833 --> 00:49:28,583
like one

2657
00:49:28,583 --> 00:49:30,083
is on the demographics.

2658
00:49:30,083 --> 00:49:30,916
And that's one of the reason

2659
00:49:30,916 --> 00:49:31,875
why I'm also super

2660
00:49:31,875 --> 00:49:33,416
bullish on the continent is

2661
00:49:33,416 --> 00:49:34,000
we're just such

2662
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:34,791
a young continent,

2663
00:49:34,791 --> 00:49:35,625
even as now,

2664
00:49:35,625 --> 00:49:36,500
like we're talking

2665
00:49:36,500 --> 00:49:37,833
practically like coffee.

2666
00:49:37,833 --> 00:49:39,125
Over 60% of the population

2667
00:49:39,125 --> 00:49:40,583
is between 18 and 25.

2668
00:49:40,583 --> 00:49:41,416
So on my age

2669
00:49:41,416 --> 00:49:42,708
range and it's

2670
00:49:42,708 --> 00:49:44,041
only going to get better

2671
00:49:44,041 --> 00:49:44,625
really for us

2672
00:49:44,625 --> 00:49:45,083
in the future

2673
00:49:45,083 --> 00:49:45,500
to the point

2674
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:46,500
where, like you touched

2675
00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:48,125
like 70, 80% continent,

2676
00:49:48,125 --> 00:49:49,000
being in that age

2677
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:50,625
range, the average age in

2678
00:49:50,625 --> 00:49:51,750
some countries is on a slope

2679
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:52,875
like 14, 16.

2680
00:49:52,875 --> 00:49:55,375
So we have a lot of potential

2681
00:49:55,375 --> 00:49:55,833
in terms

2682
00:49:55,833 --> 00:49:57,541
of just human capital.

2683
00:49:57,541 --> 00:49:58,500
I think there's nothing a lot

2684
00:49:58,500 --> 00:49:58,833
to say

2685
00:49:58,833 --> 00:50:00,083
about what the consequences

2686
00:50:00,083 --> 00:50:01,416
of that are, both good

2687
00:50:01,416 --> 00:50:02,000
and bad

2688
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:02,625
in terms of either

2689
00:50:02,625 --> 00:50:03,500
be hyper productive,

2690
00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:04,583
were completely

2691
00:50:04,583 --> 00:50:05,625
fluffed chaos.

2692
00:50:05,625 --> 00:50:06,625
I think in terms of the

2693
00:50:06,625 --> 00:50:07,375
coin angle,

2694
00:50:07,375 --> 00:50:08,375
like the one thing

2695
00:50:08,375 --> 00:50:09,416
I should say with Africa

2696
00:50:09,416 --> 00:50:10,541
is again, back to the same,

2697
00:50:11,666 --> 00:50:12,375
back to the

2698
00:50:12,375 --> 00:50:12,750
previous

2699
00:50:12,750 --> 00:50:13,625
day, we're talking about

2700
00:50:13,625 --> 00:50:14,041
in terms of

2701
00:50:14,041 --> 00:50:15,916
just the continent and the

2702
00:50:15,916 --> 00:50:16,791
promise versus

2703
00:50:16,791 --> 00:50:17,541
the actualization

2704
00:50:17,541 --> 00:50:18,916
of that promises.

2705
00:50:18,916 --> 00:50:19,458
A lot of people,

2706
00:50:19,458 --> 00:50:22,333
both in and outside, are

2707
00:50:22,333 --> 00:50:22,916
and have been used

2708
00:50:22,916 --> 00:50:24,583
to this narrative of Africa

2709
00:50:24,583 --> 00:50:25,875
being this dusty continent

2710
00:50:25,875 --> 00:50:27,041
that could just

2711
00:50:27,041 --> 00:50:28,083
constantly be used

2712
00:50:28,083 --> 00:50:29,625
as, campaigning to

2713
00:50:29,625 --> 00:50:31,000
or at least a mechanism

2714
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:32,250
for internal fundraising

2715
00:50:32,250 --> 00:50:34,041
and aid and things like that.

2716
00:50:34,041 --> 00:50:35,541
And I think one of the things

2717
00:50:35,541 --> 00:50:36,916
that really wasn't

2718
00:50:36,916 --> 00:50:38,208
something that was too happy

2719
00:50:38,208 --> 00:50:39,583
about into the crypto space

2720
00:50:39,583 --> 00:50:41,291
is it also leaned into that

2721
00:50:41,291 --> 00:50:42,833
where we had a lot of things

2722
00:50:42,833 --> 00:50:43,250
all the way

2723
00:50:43,250 --> 00:50:44,416
from seeing Bitcoin

2724
00:50:44,416 --> 00:50:45,166
as not useful

2725
00:50:45,166 --> 00:50:45,958
because it's on an

2726
00:50:45,958 --> 00:50:47,458
African currency,

2727
00:50:47,458 --> 00:50:48,583
unless that is something

2728
00:50:48,583 --> 00:50:49,791
that's external,

2729
00:50:49,791 --> 00:50:50,583
and then having

2730
00:50:50,583 --> 00:50:51,416
projects come out

2731
00:50:51,416 --> 00:50:52,250
that were just outright

2732
00:50:52,250 --> 00:50:53,083
scamming people

2733
00:50:53,083 --> 00:50:53,750
and pretending

2734
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:55,333
to be Africa's coinage,

2735
00:50:55,333 --> 00:50:56,166
what the hell does that even

2736
00:50:56,166 --> 00:50:56,958
mean?

2737
00:50:56,958 --> 00:50:58,625
And two was also the

2738
00:50:58,625 --> 00:50:59,541
the issue that we have,

2739
00:50:59,541 --> 00:51:00,666
which is is very easy

2740
00:51:00,666 --> 00:51:01,750
to come into the continent

2741
00:51:01,750 --> 00:51:02,291
and pretend

2742
00:51:02,291 --> 00:51:03,375
like you're doing work

2743
00:51:03,375 --> 00:51:04,125
like all you have to do

2744
00:51:04,125 --> 00:51:04,583
pretty much

2745
00:51:04,583 --> 00:51:05,208
which a lot of people

2746
00:51:05,208 --> 00:51:05,625
have been doing,

2747
00:51:05,625 --> 00:51:06,916
both internally,

2748
00:51:06,916 --> 00:51:07,375
the diaspora

2749
00:51:07,375 --> 00:51:08,666
and outside has been,

2750
00:51:08,666 --> 00:51:09,375
you know, just coming

2751
00:51:09,375 --> 00:51:10,250
in, taking a photo

2752
00:51:10,250 --> 00:51:11,125
with a whole bunch of kids,

2753
00:51:11,125 --> 00:51:12,958
smiling and tweeting,

2754
00:51:12,958 --> 00:51:13,250
you know,

2755
00:51:13,250 --> 00:51:13,666
you've done

2756
00:51:13,666 --> 00:51:15,375
like a million people

2757
00:51:15,375 --> 00:51:17,750
now using coin X.

2758
00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:19,208
And the thing is like, true,

2759
00:51:20,333 --> 00:51:20,916
true change

2760
00:51:20,916 --> 00:51:21,750
doesn't require you

2761
00:51:21,750 --> 00:51:23,625
to make noise about to like

2762
00:51:23,625 --> 00:51:24,291
if you actually make

2763
00:51:24,291 --> 00:51:25,083
an impact in life

2764
00:51:25,083 --> 00:51:26,458
to go and publicize it.

2765
00:51:26,458 --> 00:51:27,333
That's the one thing

2766
00:51:27,333 --> 00:51:28,125
that a lot of people

2767
00:51:28,125 --> 00:51:28,916
are starting to realize

2768
00:51:28,916 --> 00:51:29,416
with Bitcoin.

2769
00:51:29,416 --> 00:51:30,708
Like

2770
00:51:30,708 --> 00:51:32,416
the lack of a creator

2771
00:51:32,416 --> 00:51:32,833
that's there

2772
00:51:32,833 --> 00:51:33,958
to dictate the future

2773
00:51:33,958 --> 00:51:34,916
and trajectory of Bitcoin

2774
00:51:34,916 --> 00:51:35,541
is one of the reasons

2775
00:51:35,541 --> 00:51:36,875
why it could be,

2776
00:51:36,875 --> 00:51:38,208
really internalized

2777
00:51:38,208 --> 00:51:39,166
by other parts of the world,

2778
00:51:39,166 --> 00:51:41,083
like Africa's RSA as well,

2779
00:51:41,083 --> 00:51:42,958
because it's large enough

2780
00:51:42,958 --> 00:51:43,708
and it's big enough

2781
00:51:43,708 --> 00:51:44,791
and it's deep enough

2782
00:51:44,791 --> 00:51:46,000
in terms of the shift

2783
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,208
that is bringing to humanity

2784
00:51:47,208 --> 00:51:48,375
that all parts of the world

2785
00:51:48,375 --> 00:51:49,666
can collaboratively lean

2786
00:51:49,666 --> 00:51:50,208
into these

2787
00:51:50,208 --> 00:51:51,333
be set of principles

2788
00:51:51,333 --> 00:51:52,875
that could be the foundation

2789
00:51:52,875 --> 00:51:53,833
for a prosperous nation.

2790
00:51:53,833 --> 00:51:55,125
So I think for Africa,

2791
00:51:55,125 --> 00:51:56,041
like the

2792
00:51:56,041 --> 00:51:56,625
the main thing

2793
00:51:56,625 --> 00:51:57,708
I've seen from the crypto

2794
00:51:57,708 --> 00:51:59,875
side has been leaning into

2795
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:02,541
eternal talk about Africa's

2796
00:52:02,541 --> 00:52:04,333
potential without necessarily

2797
00:52:04,333 --> 00:52:05,541
practically dipping

2798
00:52:05,541 --> 00:52:06,708
into making that a reality,

2799
00:52:06,708 --> 00:52:07,416
whereas Bitcoin

2800
00:52:07,416 --> 00:52:08,708
is a complete opposite.

2801
00:52:08,708 --> 00:52:11,333
Like it's literally though

2802
00:52:11,333 --> 00:52:12,041
it's started

2803
00:52:12,041 --> 00:52:13,083
and is I guess,

2804
00:52:13,083 --> 00:52:14,833
birthed within the,

2805
00:52:14,833 --> 00:52:16,333
the standpoint of actually

2806
00:52:16,333 --> 00:52:17,541
getting into actualizing

2807
00:52:17,541 --> 00:52:18,791
all the potential of African

2808
00:52:18,791 --> 00:52:20,166
then taking that to

2809
00:52:20,166 --> 00:52:20,791
really stuff

2810
00:52:20,791 --> 00:52:21,500
where a lot of us

2811
00:52:21,500 --> 00:52:21,958
on the ground,

2812
00:52:21,958 --> 00:52:22,666
even Bitcoiners

2813
00:52:22,666 --> 00:52:24,125
have thought of,

2814
00:52:24,125 --> 00:52:24,583
like Bitcoin

2815
00:52:24,583 --> 00:52:25,333
mining all of that

2816
00:52:25,333 --> 00:52:26,416
really early on wasn't

2817
00:52:26,416 --> 00:52:27,041
something at the

2818
00:52:27,041 --> 00:52:27,666
top of funnel

2819
00:52:27,666 --> 00:52:28,416
that were thinking about

2820
00:52:28,416 --> 00:52:28,875
that caused

2821
00:52:28,875 --> 00:52:30,041
this type of change.

2822
00:52:30,041 --> 00:52:30,375
And I think

2823
00:52:30,375 --> 00:52:31,333
more broadly in terms

2824
00:52:31,333 --> 00:52:32,083
of how people see

2825
00:52:32,083 --> 00:52:34,250
price action, it's

2826
00:52:34,250 --> 00:52:34,500
the way

2827
00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:35,041
I personally see

2828
00:52:35,041 --> 00:52:35,583
price action,

2829
00:52:35,583 --> 00:52:36,416
as is kind of this.

2830
00:52:36,416 --> 00:52:39,375
It's there's no ceiling

2831
00:52:39,375 --> 00:52:41,375
for how you can value,

2832
00:52:41,375 --> 00:52:43,125
financial freedom

2833
00:52:43,125 --> 00:52:44,833
or how you could value

2834
00:52:44,833 --> 00:52:45,916
really energy

2835
00:52:45,916 --> 00:52:47,166
up on that side.

2836
00:52:47,166 --> 00:52:47,958
And I think the price

2837
00:52:47,958 --> 00:52:48,750
is just a reflection

2838
00:52:48,750 --> 00:52:50,416
of the contemporary,

2839
00:52:50,416 --> 00:52:51,416
I guess price

2840
00:52:51,416 --> 00:52:52,833
that people put onto that.

2841
00:52:52,833 --> 00:52:53,708
So it's only

2842
00:52:53,708 --> 00:52:54,708
going to keep bubbling up

2843
00:52:54,708 --> 00:52:56,041
and I think

2844
00:52:56,041 --> 00:52:56,833
one other thing really,

2845
00:52:56,833 --> 00:52:57,875
to take a look at it,

2846
00:52:57,875 --> 00:52:59,000
I guess this is more on

2847
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:00,500
the empirical side is Bitcoin

2848
00:53:00,500 --> 00:53:01,541
crashes upwards.

2849
00:53:01,541 --> 00:53:03,166
So there's a popular

2850
00:53:03,166 --> 00:53:04,208
saying on Bitcoin space.

2851
00:53:04,208 --> 00:53:05,458
But that really is the keys

2852
00:53:05,458 --> 00:53:06,416
duplicate historical

2853
00:53:06,416 --> 00:53:07,166
price analysis.

2854
00:53:07,166 --> 00:53:08,375
And I think it's just part

2855
00:53:08,375 --> 00:53:10,125
and parcel of again

2856
00:53:10,125 --> 00:53:11,000
further discovery

2857
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:11,500
as a result

2858
00:53:11,500 --> 00:53:12,166
of the consequence

2859
00:53:12,166 --> 00:53:13,000
of having Bitcoin

2860
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:14,333
as a tool that is global.

2861
00:53:14,333 --> 00:53:15,041
Again,

2862
00:53:15,041 --> 00:53:16,583
because localized and really

2863
00:53:16,583 --> 00:53:17,166
just a coin

2864
00:53:17,166 --> 00:53:18,125
for a specific part

2865
00:53:18,125 --> 00:53:18,500
of the world,

2866
00:53:18,500 --> 00:53:18,833
it wouldn't

2867
00:53:18,833 --> 00:53:20,416
necessarily reach the type of

2868
00:53:20,416 --> 00:53:21,708
degree of,

2869
00:53:21,708 --> 00:53:22,750
I guess, both adoption

2870
00:53:22,750 --> 00:53:23,333
as well as use

2871
00:53:23,333 --> 00:53:23,958
cases on the ground.

2872
00:53:23,958 --> 00:53:26,083
But it has to like Africa,

2873
00:53:26,083 --> 00:53:26,625
I think. Again,

2874
00:53:26,625 --> 00:53:28,041
just to recap, like the sheer

2875
00:53:28,041 --> 00:53:29,083
abundance of young folks

2876
00:53:29,083 --> 00:53:29,875
on the continent

2877
00:53:29,875 --> 00:53:32,166
likely to be a huge catalyst

2878
00:53:32,166 --> 00:53:33,500
in terms of advancing us

2879
00:53:33,500 --> 00:53:34,416
in the right direction

2880
00:53:34,416 --> 00:53:35,041
or probably going

2881
00:53:35,041 --> 00:53:35,750
the other direction

2882
00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:37,250
if we're not proactive.

2883
00:53:37,250 --> 00:53:38,125
And again, just to close on

2884
00:53:38,125 --> 00:53:39,333
this really is

2885
00:53:39,333 --> 00:53:40,333
I think

2886
00:53:40,333 --> 00:53:40,833
I'm not part

2887
00:53:40,833 --> 00:53:41,833
of the crowd of bitcoiners

2888
00:53:41,833 --> 00:53:43,083
that feel like we've won,

2889
00:53:43,083 --> 00:53:43,791
quote unquote,

2890
00:53:43,791 --> 00:53:44,500
or like, you know,

2891
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,041
it's the happy being poor

2892
00:53:48,041 --> 00:53:48,458
and all that.

2893
00:53:48,458 --> 00:53:49,958
I feel

2894
00:53:49,958 --> 00:53:51,083
Bitcoin has to keep winning.

2895
00:53:51,083 --> 00:53:51,666
Like there's no

2896
00:53:51,666 --> 00:53:53,000
concept of Bitcoin has won

2897
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:54,041
because by virtue

2898
00:53:54,041 --> 00:53:54,708
of being software,

2899
00:53:54,708 --> 00:53:55,416
there's no such thing

2900
00:53:55,416 --> 00:53:57,083
as like a final end state.

2901
00:53:57,083 --> 00:53:57,500
There's only a

2902
00:53:57,500 --> 00:53:58,125
state of either

2903
00:53:58,125 --> 00:53:59,541
working or being deprecated.

2904
00:53:59,541 --> 00:54:01,125
So I firmly believe for us

2905
00:54:01,125 --> 00:54:02,291
to actually get these things

2906
00:54:02,291 --> 00:54:03,041
practically done

2907
00:54:03,041 --> 00:54:03,625
on the continent

2908
00:54:03,625 --> 00:54:04,625
in terms of prosperity,

2909
00:54:04,625 --> 00:54:05,500
I'll have to continue

2910
00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:06,833
to play our part

2911
00:54:06,833 --> 00:54:08,375
really actively to make sure

2912
00:54:08,375 --> 00:54:09,125
that we're

2913
00:54:09,125 --> 00:54:10,250
not only defending attacks,

2914
00:54:10,250 --> 00:54:10,791
but we're

2915
00:54:10,791 --> 00:54:11,750
also structuring

2916
00:54:11,750 --> 00:54:13,041
a very healthy ecosystem

2917
00:54:13,041 --> 00:54:15,250
from within.

2918
00:54:15,250 --> 00:54:15,541
Yeah.

2919
00:54:15,541 --> 00:54:18,083
So one thing,

2920
00:54:18,083 --> 00:54:19,333
I'm thinking of here, like,

2921
00:54:19,333 --> 00:54:21,500
as with Africa

2922
00:54:21,500 --> 00:54:23,541
or Nigeria specifically,

2923
00:54:23,541 --> 00:54:24,208
perhaps,

2924
00:54:24,208 --> 00:54:25,791
as opposed to

2925
00:54:25,791 --> 00:54:27,375
to Western countries

2926
00:54:27,375 --> 00:54:28,958
in terms of culture

2927
00:54:28,958 --> 00:54:31,041
and how you view the family.

2928
00:54:31,041 --> 00:54:31,583
It's like the

2929
00:54:31,583 --> 00:54:32,625
the African families

2930
00:54:32,625 --> 00:54:33,458
are much bigger.

2931
00:54:33,458 --> 00:54:34,541
There's like clans

2932
00:54:34,541 --> 00:54:35,250
and stuff like,

2933
00:54:35,250 --> 00:54:36,375
and groups

2934
00:54:36,375 --> 00:54:37,625
of like 200 people

2935
00:54:37,625 --> 00:54:39,500
where your loyalty may lie.

2936
00:54:39,500 --> 00:54:40,791
Whereas in Western countries

2937
00:54:40,791 --> 00:54:42,625
you're more focused on like

2938
00:54:43,875 --> 00:54:45,000
maybe up to

2939
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:45,708
grandfathers

2940
00:54:45,708 --> 00:54:46,458
and grandmothers,

2941
00:54:46,458 --> 00:54:47,750
but not very much

2942
00:54:47,750 --> 00:54:48,750
more than that.

2943
00:54:48,750 --> 00:54:50,541
So, so by the way, are you

2944
00:54:50,541 --> 00:54:51,708
you have what they call

2945
00:54:51,708 --> 00:54:53,750
Yoruba or Igbo.

2946
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:55,583
Oh, I'm, I'm Fulani actually.

2947
00:54:55,583 --> 00:54:57,041
So I'm like one, two.

2948
00:54:57,041 --> 00:54:59,583
Oh right. So I got it wrong.

2949
00:54:59,583 --> 00:55:02,208
Anyway, so, so,

2950
00:55:02,208 --> 00:55:02,916
so how do you think

2951
00:55:02,916 --> 00:55:04,333
that, like, impacts

2952
00:55:04,333 --> 00:55:05,458
Bitcoin adoption.

2953
00:55:05,458 --> 00:55:06,916
Is there like things

2954
00:55:06,916 --> 00:55:08,083
like fiddy for instance.

2955
00:55:08,083 --> 00:55:10,250
Seems like seem like,

2956
00:55:10,250 --> 00:55:11,958
absolutely tailor

2957
00:55:11,958 --> 00:55:13,875
made for that kind of culture

2958
00:55:13,875 --> 00:55:14,958
and, like,

2959
00:55:14,958 --> 00:55:16,875
how much has that got to do

2960
00:55:16,875 --> 00:55:18,083
with the

2961
00:55:18,083 --> 00:55:19,750
corrupt, corrupt ness

2962
00:55:19,750 --> 00:55:20,375
and like,

2963
00:55:20,375 --> 00:55:21,208
people's

2964
00:55:21,208 --> 00:55:21,916
loyalties here

2965
00:55:21,916 --> 00:55:23,625
and there and, building

2966
00:55:23,625 --> 00:55:24,708
strong institutions

2967
00:55:24,708 --> 00:55:25,416
and stuff.

2968
00:55:25,416 --> 00:55:27,083
What are your thoughts?

2969
00:55:27,083 --> 00:55:28,250
I mean, like

2970
00:55:28,250 --> 00:55:30,333
capitalism as a whole has

2971
00:55:30,333 --> 00:55:31,666
really flipped the,

2972
00:55:31,666 --> 00:55:32,750
I guess the loyalty

2973
00:55:32,750 --> 00:55:33,833
question into,

2974
00:55:33,833 --> 00:55:34,375
you know, people

2975
00:55:34,375 --> 00:55:35,583
being loyal to capital

2976
00:55:35,583 --> 00:55:37,166
or just money in general.

2977
00:55:37,166 --> 00:55:38,166
I think there's that angle.

2978
00:55:38,166 --> 00:55:39,083
There's also the uncle

2979
00:55:39,083 --> 00:55:39,875
like you mentioned of,

2980
00:55:39,875 --> 00:55:40,833
he's like,

2981
00:55:40,833 --> 00:55:41,500
I mean, I'm

2982
00:55:41,500 --> 00:55:42,833
from a family of five.

2983
00:55:42,833 --> 00:55:44,041
It's off included.

2984
00:55:44,041 --> 00:55:44,416
And it's

2985
00:55:44,416 --> 00:55:46,166
typically commonplace

2986
00:55:46,166 --> 00:55:46,833
in a lot of power,

2987
00:55:46,833 --> 00:55:47,375
especially up

2988
00:55:47,375 --> 00:55:48,458
here in the north

2989
00:55:48,458 --> 00:55:49,666
of large families.

2990
00:55:49,666 --> 00:55:51,125
I think the

2991
00:55:51,125 --> 00:55:51,750
there are a lot of things

2992
00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:52,250
at play, like

2993
00:55:52,250 --> 00:55:52,875
there is definitely

2994
00:55:52,875 --> 00:55:54,291
the cultural dynamic in terms

2995
00:55:54,291 --> 00:55:55,333
of having

2996
00:55:55,333 --> 00:55:56,416
like families

2997
00:55:56,416 --> 00:55:57,958
or having a sense of, again,

2998
00:55:57,958 --> 00:55:58,333
like I said,

2999
00:55:58,333 --> 00:55:59,041
shared community.

3000
00:55:59,041 --> 00:56:00,583
And it kind of varies

3001
00:56:00,583 --> 00:56:01,958
all across the continent

3002
00:56:01,958 --> 00:56:03,166
as you look from like urban

3003
00:56:03,166 --> 00:56:04,791
to rural as well.

3004
00:56:04,791 --> 00:56:05,791
And I think some of the

3005
00:56:05,791 --> 00:56:06,291
other factors

3006
00:56:06,291 --> 00:56:07,875
that do play into,

3007
00:56:07,875 --> 00:56:08,791
I guess determining

3008
00:56:08,791 --> 00:56:09,750
some of the consequences

3009
00:56:09,750 --> 00:56:11,000
for us as a continent is

3010
00:56:12,375 --> 00:56:13,416
there's so many,

3011
00:56:13,416 --> 00:56:14,416
first of all, languages.

3012
00:56:14,416 --> 00:56:15,708
So even the idea

3013
00:56:15,708 --> 00:56:16,750
of expressing myself

3014
00:56:16,750 --> 00:56:18,958
on the continent, it's such a

3015
00:56:18,958 --> 00:56:19,791
it's not as straightforward

3016
00:56:19,791 --> 00:56:20,916
as it is in continents

3017
00:56:20,916 --> 00:56:22,083
where it's like predominantly

3018
00:56:22,083 --> 00:56:23,333
single language.

3019
00:56:23,333 --> 00:56:23,958
And I think

3020
00:56:23,958 --> 00:56:25,083
within the language aspect,

3021
00:56:25,083 --> 00:56:26,166
there is also the trait

3022
00:56:26,166 --> 00:56:27,083
of our city of cultures,

3023
00:56:27,083 --> 00:56:27,791
like you mentioned.

3024
00:56:27,791 --> 00:56:28,458
I mean, we have two

3025
00:56:28,458 --> 00:56:29,708
major ones in terms of,

3026
00:56:29,708 --> 00:56:30,625
the lingua franca

3027
00:56:30,625 --> 00:56:31,958
in Nigeria.

3028
00:56:31,958 --> 00:56:33,166
You're about how say, IBO?

3029
00:56:33,166 --> 00:56:33,458
Because I

3030
00:56:33,458 --> 00:56:34,458
don't like focusing

3031
00:56:34,458 --> 00:56:35,875
on my mother tongue,

3032
00:56:35,875 --> 00:56:37,541
which is a

3033
00:56:37,541 --> 00:56:39,291
and that also plays a part.

3034
00:56:39,291 --> 00:56:39,916
And there's also the,

3035
00:56:39,916 --> 00:56:41,125
the religious aspect as well,

3036
00:56:41,125 --> 00:56:42,333
where it is roughly

3037
00:56:42,333 --> 00:56:44,791
split into 50% Christian, 50%

3038
00:56:44,791 --> 00:56:45,541
or something.

3039
00:56:45,541 --> 00:56:46,333
Even within that too,

3040
00:56:46,333 --> 00:56:47,333
there is some

3041
00:56:47,333 --> 00:56:48,166
degree of variance

3042
00:56:48,166 --> 00:56:51,000
in terms of actually,

3043
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:51,750
having some sort of,

3044
00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:52,875
I guess, common understanding

3045
00:56:52,875 --> 00:56:53,625
for a certain thing.

3046
00:56:53,625 --> 00:56:54,458
So there are

3047
00:56:54,458 --> 00:56:55,500
a lot of dynamics

3048
00:56:55,500 --> 00:56:56,541
and demographics, really,

3049
00:56:56,541 --> 00:56:57,916
that are the reason

3050
00:56:57,916 --> 00:56:58,833
why everything's

3051
00:56:58,833 --> 00:56:59,625
a lot more complex,

3052
00:56:59,625 --> 00:57:00,833
but I don't necessarily

3053
00:57:00,833 --> 00:57:01,250
fault it

3054
00:57:01,250 --> 00:57:02,625
as the reason why

3055
00:57:02,625 --> 00:57:03,458
there's either

3056
00:57:03,458 --> 00:57:04,416
a lot of corruption

3057
00:57:04,416 --> 00:57:05,750
or a lack of structure

3058
00:57:05,750 --> 00:57:07,500
or lack of prosperity.

3059
00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:08,625
I just feel like it's

3060
00:57:09,625 --> 00:57:10,666
one of those things where I

3061
00:57:10,666 --> 00:57:11,500
could easily slip

3062
00:57:11,500 --> 00:57:12,458
into understanding

3063
00:57:12,458 --> 00:57:13,250
and recognizing that

3064
00:57:13,250 --> 00:57:14,166
as more of a strength

3065
00:57:14,166 --> 00:57:15,625
as, as opposed to,

3066
00:57:15,625 --> 00:57:16,583
a hindrance.

3067
00:57:16,583 --> 00:57:17,958
So specifically succinctly

3068
00:57:17,958 --> 00:57:19,000
saying it's,

3069
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:19,833
I guess, suffice to say,

3070
00:57:19,833 --> 00:57:20,833
would be thinking of it

3071
00:57:20,833 --> 00:57:22,166
more as adversity

3072
00:57:22,166 --> 00:57:23,833
breeds all the opportunities

3073
00:57:23,833 --> 00:57:25,666
for further prosperity.

3074
00:57:25,666 --> 00:57:27,166
Like we had a huge monolith,

3075
00:57:27,166 --> 00:57:28,000
it would probably be

3076
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:28,958
a lot more difficult

3077
00:57:28,958 --> 00:57:30,083
for us to actualize

3078
00:57:30,083 --> 00:57:30,375
a lot of

3079
00:57:30,375 --> 00:57:31,375
opportunities at the scale

3080
00:57:31,375 --> 00:57:32,375
that we're doing, at the pace

3081
00:57:32,375 --> 00:57:33,000
we're doing right now,

3082
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:34,250
whether it's mining

3083
00:57:34,250 --> 00:57:36,125
or just economic development.

3084
00:57:36,125 --> 00:57:39,000
So I think really all the

3085
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,041
I guess, all the dynamics

3086
00:57:40,041 --> 00:57:41,166
that we have in place

3087
00:57:41,166 --> 00:57:42,250
in terms of complexity

3088
00:57:42,250 --> 00:57:43,583
and all the factors

3089
00:57:43,583 --> 00:57:44,250
and demographics

3090
00:57:44,250 --> 00:57:45,625
that we have this kind

3091
00:57:45,625 --> 00:57:46,541
of parcel of the reason

3092
00:57:46,541 --> 00:57:47,250
why I feel like

3093
00:57:47,250 --> 00:57:48,291
we're going to be really

3094
00:57:48,291 --> 00:57:49,166
at the forefront of the world

3095
00:57:49,166 --> 00:57:50,000
in terms of

3096
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:51,208
ushering in a new era

3097
00:57:51,208 --> 00:57:52,041
for the whole world

3098
00:57:52,041 --> 00:57:54,166
of abundance. Unlike proper,

3099
00:57:55,583 --> 00:57:56,375
is a proper state,

3100
00:57:56,375 --> 00:57:57,250
economically speaking,

3101
00:57:57,250 --> 00:57:58,333
and kind of defining

3102
00:57:58,333 --> 00:57:58,791
what it means

3103
00:57:58,791 --> 00:58:00,500
to be a person in

3104
00:58:00,500 --> 00:58:01,250
21st century.

3105
00:58:01,250 --> 00:58:04,250
Really? Yeah.

3106
00:58:04,458 --> 00:58:05,458
I mean,

3107
00:58:05,458 --> 00:58:06,083
can't wait

3108
00:58:06,083 --> 00:58:07,458
to see how this plays out.

3109
00:58:07,458 --> 00:58:08,458
Like,

3110
00:58:08,458 --> 00:58:09,166
yeah, I know

3111
00:58:09,166 --> 00:58:10,875
we have four seats, so

3112
00:58:10,875 --> 00:58:11,291
yeah, yeah,

3113
00:58:11,291 --> 00:58:12,166
we have front row

3114
00:58:12,166 --> 00:58:13,583
seats and it's absolutely

3115
00:58:13,583 --> 00:58:14,833
speaking of front row seats.

3116
00:58:14,833 --> 00:58:15,541
Like,

3117
00:58:15,541 --> 00:58:16,083
are you doing

3118
00:58:16,083 --> 00:58:17,083
a lot of conferences

3119
00:58:17,083 --> 00:58:18,375
this upcoming year too?

3120
00:58:18,375 --> 00:58:18,625
Like,

3121
00:58:18,625 --> 00:58:20,333
are you traveling a lot?

3122
00:58:20,333 --> 00:58:20,833
Yeah. We'll see.

3123
00:58:20,833 --> 00:58:21,583
I mean,

3124
00:58:21,583 --> 00:58:22,583
obviously as you guys

3125
00:58:22,583 --> 00:58:23,000
know, like

3126
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:24,208
with conferences, it's,

3127
00:58:24,208 --> 00:58:25,833
you know, balancing out

3128
00:58:25,833 --> 00:58:27,291
productivity as well as,

3129
00:58:27,291 --> 00:58:27,750
you know,

3130
00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:28,875
making that productivity

3131
00:58:28,875 --> 00:58:30,166
known or kind of helping us.

3132
00:58:30,166 --> 00:58:31,375
So we'll see.

3133
00:58:31,375 --> 00:58:32,083
I think it's

3134
00:58:32,083 --> 00:58:33,000
definitely too early for me

3135
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:34,875
to know based on the timings.

3136
00:58:34,875 --> 00:58:36,208
But again, it seems this year

3137
00:58:36,208 --> 00:58:36,791
there will be some

3138
00:58:36,791 --> 00:58:37,875
conflicting conferences.

3139
00:58:37,875 --> 00:58:39,083
So I would take off

3140
00:58:39,083 --> 00:58:40,416
some of the roster from

3141
00:58:40,416 --> 00:58:41,416
my list and schedule.

3142
00:58:42,708 --> 00:58:43,125
All right.

3143
00:58:43,125 --> 00:58:44,750
And are there any

3144
00:58:44,750 --> 00:58:45,625
other subjects

3145
00:58:45,625 --> 00:58:46,875
that we haven't covered yet

3146
00:58:46,875 --> 00:58:47,458
that you

3147
00:58:47,458 --> 00:58:48,375
that you'd like to

3148
00:58:48,375 --> 00:58:51,333
to dive into?

3149
00:58:51,333 --> 00:58:52,666
I mean, briefly would be on

3150
00:58:52,666 --> 00:58:53,500
the, on

3151
00:58:53,500 --> 00:58:54,166
the investment side

3152
00:58:54,166 --> 00:58:54,791
on the continent.

3153
00:58:54,791 --> 00:58:55,125
Like,

3154
00:58:55,125 --> 00:58:55,708
I know we've talked

3155
00:58:55,708 --> 00:58:56,291
about both

3156
00:58:56,291 --> 00:58:58,041
the development side, open

3157
00:58:58,041 --> 00:58:58,541
source,

3158
00:58:58,541 --> 00:59:00,000
the system being open,

3159
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:01,083
some of the practicalities

3160
00:59:01,083 --> 00:59:02,000
from mining.

3161
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:03,000
I think another aspect

3162
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:03,791
that's interesting

3163
00:59:03,791 --> 00:59:04,958
too, is on the placement side

3164
00:59:04,958 --> 00:59:05,458
in Africa,

3165
00:59:05,458 --> 00:59:06,500
like pretty

3166
00:59:06,500 --> 00:59:07,333
much have a large

3167
00:59:07,333 --> 00:59:08,500
fintech ecosystem here

3168
00:59:08,500 --> 00:59:09,000
in Africa,

3169
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:10,000
for obvious reasons

3170
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:10,708
that might just mark.

3171
00:59:10,708 --> 00:59:11,750
So we sort of sense

3172
00:59:11,750 --> 00:59:12,708
that people have been trying

3173
00:59:12,708 --> 00:59:13,541
to solve

3174
00:59:13,541 --> 00:59:14,083
the money issue

3175
00:59:14,083 --> 00:59:15,375
here on a continent.

3176
00:59:15,375 --> 00:59:16,875
And I think with regards

3177
00:59:16,875 --> 00:59:17,208
to that,

3178
00:59:17,208 --> 00:59:18,083
what I would suggest in

3179
00:59:18,083 --> 00:59:19,541
brief is

3180
00:59:19,541 --> 00:59:20,833
I have a mix of three things

3181
00:59:20,833 --> 00:59:21,500
that I'm seeing.

3182
00:59:21,500 --> 00:59:23,083
So one is a flip thing

3183
00:59:23,083 --> 00:59:23,666
that's happening

3184
00:59:23,666 --> 00:59:25,875
from the fintech space being,

3185
00:59:25,875 --> 00:59:26,333
you know,

3186
00:59:26,333 --> 00:59:27,458
where Bitcoin was spread

3187
00:59:27,458 --> 00:59:28,666
out of the opposite.

3188
00:59:28,666 --> 00:59:29,500
So Bitcoin

3189
00:59:29,500 --> 00:59:30,375
becoming the super

3190
00:59:30,375 --> 00:59:31,041
for fintechs.

3191
00:59:31,041 --> 00:59:31,750
And I think that's going

3192
00:59:31,750 --> 00:59:32,833
to take shape specifically

3193
00:59:32,833 --> 00:59:34,000
2025 onwards

3194
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:34,875
in terms of

3195
00:59:34,875 --> 00:59:35,416
people starting

3196
00:59:35,416 --> 00:59:35,958
to understand

3197
00:59:35,958 --> 00:59:37,458
their fintech companies

3198
00:59:37,458 --> 00:59:38,083
from the standpoint

3199
00:59:38,083 --> 00:59:38,541
of Bitcoin,

3200
00:59:38,541 --> 00:59:38,833
whether it's

3201
00:59:38,833 --> 00:59:39,791
treasury management

3202
00:59:39,791 --> 00:59:40,875
or just for

3203
00:59:40,875 --> 00:59:42,166
sure, competitiveness

3204
00:59:42,166 --> 00:59:43,208
or staying afloat in terms

3205
00:59:43,208 --> 00:59:43,416
of being

3206
00:59:43,416 --> 00:59:44,333
a competitive company,

3207
00:59:44,333 --> 00:59:45,083
integrating Bitcoin

3208
00:59:45,083 --> 00:59:46,333
at some point are there.

3209
00:59:46,333 --> 00:59:47,000
It's on, again,

3210
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:47,333
like I said,

3211
00:59:47,333 --> 00:59:48,125
treasury management

3212
00:59:48,125 --> 00:59:49,083
or just leveraging the

3213
00:59:49,083 --> 00:59:50,500
like network for institutions

3214
00:59:50,500 --> 00:59:51,708
or things around that.

3215
00:59:51,708 --> 00:59:52,875
And I think you will start

3216
00:59:52,875 --> 00:59:53,333
to see

3217
00:59:53,333 --> 00:59:54,166
some of those companies

3218
00:59:54,166 --> 00:59:55,125
also looking at

3219
00:59:55,125 --> 00:59:55,875
Bitcoin mining,

3220
00:59:56,833 --> 00:59:57,375
not just like

3221
00:59:57,375 --> 00:59:58,166
mining specifically,

3222
00:59:58,166 --> 00:59:59,166
but software

3223
00:59:59,166 --> 00:59:59,958
tools, services

3224
00:59:59,958 --> 01:00:00,666
around Bitcoin

3225
01:00:00,666 --> 01:00:01,583
and infrastructure

3226
01:00:01,583 --> 01:00:03,083
around Bitcoin mining.

3227
01:00:03,083 --> 01:00:05,750
And I'd say in terms of the

3228
01:00:05,750 --> 01:00:06,083
terms

3229
01:00:06,083 --> 01:00:07,208
of the general investment

3230
01:00:07,208 --> 01:00:08,500
outlook, I would say

3231
01:00:08,500 --> 01:00:09,375
Africa is definitely

3232
01:00:09,375 --> 01:00:10,125
one of the regions

3233
01:00:10,125 --> 01:00:10,583
that people

3234
01:00:10,583 --> 01:00:11,791
should keep a keen,

3235
01:00:11,791 --> 01:00:12,708
keen eye on,

3236
01:00:12,708 --> 01:00:13,208
especially in the

3237
01:00:13,208 --> 01:00:14,125
Bitcoin space,

3238
01:00:14,125 --> 01:00:15,041
for obvious reasons.

3239
01:00:15,041 --> 01:00:16,333
One is the share

3240
01:00:16,333 --> 01:00:16,833
I'm on Twitter.

3241
01:00:16,833 --> 01:00:17,708
Really, like I mentioned,

3242
01:00:17,708 --> 01:00:18,375
is one of the reasons

3243
01:00:18,375 --> 01:00:19,583
why it would likely reflect

3244
01:00:19,583 --> 01:00:20,666
the most accurate definition

3245
01:00:20,666 --> 01:00:21,125
of what it means

3246
01:00:21,125 --> 01:00:22,583
to be a company.

3247
01:00:22,583 --> 01:00:23,333
The two again,

3248
01:00:23,333 --> 01:00:23,833
because of this

3249
01:00:23,833 --> 01:00:25,291
someone diversity in

3250
01:00:25,291 --> 01:00:26,875
I guess I see as well.

3251
01:00:26,875 --> 01:00:27,791
It would be likely

3252
01:00:27,791 --> 01:00:28,750
that the most bleeding edge

3253
01:00:28,750 --> 01:00:30,500
in terms of innovation.

3254
01:00:30,500 --> 01:00:31,458
It's not one of those things

3255
01:00:31,458 --> 01:00:32,416
where we're just talking,

3256
01:00:32,416 --> 01:00:32,666
you know,

3257
01:00:32,666 --> 01:00:33,666
out of our assets,

3258
01:00:33,666 --> 01:00:34,250
one of those things

3259
01:00:34,250 --> 01:00:34,583
that has

3260
01:00:34,583 --> 01:00:35,416
actually materialized

3261
01:00:35,416 --> 01:00:35,875
over the last

3262
01:00:35,875 --> 01:00:36,416
couple of years,

3263
01:00:36,416 --> 01:00:36,708
well, there's

3264
01:00:36,708 --> 01:00:37,416
so much ink real

3265
01:00:37,416 --> 01:00:38,416
with USD code.

3266
01:00:38,416 --> 01:00:40,041
So every lightning network

3267
01:00:40,041 --> 01:00:40,666
all the way up to,

3268
01:00:40,666 --> 01:00:41,708
you know, tandoor

3269
01:00:41,708 --> 01:00:42,833
or some of these other things

3270
01:00:42,833 --> 01:00:43,583
I do,

3271
01:00:43,583 --> 01:00:44,250
I think we're going to see

3272
01:00:44,250 --> 01:00:45,125
even more projects

3273
01:00:45,125 --> 01:00:46,541
come out of that.

3274
01:00:46,541 --> 01:00:47,166
Craig, that's that,

3275
01:00:47,166 --> 01:00:48,208
that whole,

3276
01:00:48,208 --> 01:00:50,166
understanding of

3277
01:00:50,166 --> 01:00:51,000
there's so many challenges

3278
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:52,791
that are uniquely African,

3279
01:00:52,791 --> 01:00:53,958
which can only be solved

3280
01:00:53,958 --> 01:00:55,125
by folks on the continent.

3281
01:00:55,125 --> 01:00:56,208
So I think

3282
01:00:56,208 --> 01:00:57,000
on the investments, there's

3283
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:57,250
going to be

3284
01:00:57,250 --> 01:00:58,041
a lot of these companies

3285
01:00:58,041 --> 01:00:58,916
that mimic that.

3286
01:00:58,916 --> 01:00:59,958
I think the only question

3287
01:00:59,958 --> 01:01:01,416
would be balancing

3288
01:01:01,416 --> 01:01:02,291
all the innovation

3289
01:01:02,291 --> 01:01:02,958
and all the tech that's

3290
01:01:02,958 --> 01:01:03,583
going to come out

3291
01:01:03,583 --> 01:01:04,791
with actual viable

3292
01:01:04,791 --> 01:01:06,458
business models and

3293
01:01:06,458 --> 01:01:07,250
I guess the standpoint

3294
01:01:07,250 --> 01:01:07,875
from investors.

3295
01:01:07,875 --> 01:01:09,291
But on the consumer side,

3296
01:01:09,291 --> 01:01:10,166
we're definitely in

3297
01:01:10,166 --> 01:01:11,083
for a huge ride

3298
01:01:11,083 --> 01:01:12,916
in terms of experimentation,

3299
01:01:12,916 --> 01:01:13,833
a lot of innovation

3300
01:01:13,833 --> 01:01:14,291
on the ground.

3301
01:01:14,291 --> 01:01:14,833
So stuff

3302
01:01:14,833 --> 01:01:15,375
is going to get

3303
01:01:15,375 --> 01:01:16,208
really, really exciting

3304
01:01:16,208 --> 01:01:16,791
on the continent.

3305
01:01:21,333 --> 01:01:22,666
But,

3306
01:01:22,666 --> 01:01:23,958
Luke, I thought

3307
01:01:23,958 --> 01:01:24,291
you were going

3308
01:01:24,291 --> 01:01:25,416
to say something to this.

3309
01:01:25,416 --> 01:01:26,041
Sorry,

3310
01:01:26,041 --> 01:01:26,750
I don't know why

3311
01:01:26,750 --> 01:01:28,083
you were waiting.

3312
01:01:28,083 --> 01:01:28,708
If I don't know why

3313
01:01:28,708 --> 01:01:31,333
I did that. Yeah. No. Okay.

3314
01:01:31,333 --> 01:01:31,791
No. No.

3315
01:01:31,791 --> 01:01:32,333
Great to hear.

3316
01:01:32,333 --> 01:01:33,708
I mean, I mean, I think the,

3317
01:01:33,708 --> 01:01:34,916
I think the,

3318
01:01:34,916 --> 01:01:36,250
investment

3319
01:01:36,250 --> 01:01:37,333
angle is,

3320
01:01:37,333 --> 01:01:38,916
is an interesting one.

3321
01:01:38,916 --> 01:01:39,916
I mean,

3322
01:01:39,916 --> 01:01:41,708
the attractiveness of any,

3323
01:01:41,708 --> 01:01:45,375
place, generally,

3324
01:01:45,375 --> 01:01:47,000
any market generally is,

3325
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,208
it's kind of

3326
01:01:49,208 --> 01:01:49,791
it's funny

3327
01:01:49,791 --> 01:01:50,208
that it's all

3328
01:01:50,208 --> 01:01:52,416
skewed, basically.

3329
01:01:52,416 --> 01:01:53,625
We're, we're

3330
01:01:53,625 --> 01:01:54,708
we're pretty much in a,

3331
01:01:54,708 --> 01:01:57,375
in, a state where the,

3332
01:01:57,375 --> 01:01:58,208
the US

3333
01:01:58,208 --> 01:02:00,125
government, by their

3334
01:02:00,125 --> 01:02:00,833
printing money

3335
01:02:00,833 --> 01:02:01,916
in and all of their systems

3336
01:02:01,916 --> 01:02:02,583
of foreign aid

3337
01:02:02,583 --> 01:02:03,833
and everything completely

3338
01:02:03,833 --> 01:02:05,541
skews the market of,

3339
01:02:05,541 --> 01:02:07,625
of where to invest money,

3340
01:02:07,625 --> 01:02:08,833
who to invest money

3341
01:02:08,833 --> 01:02:10,041
in, what regions of the world

3342
01:02:10,041 --> 01:02:11,333
to invest money in?

3343
01:02:11,333 --> 01:02:12,875
And, well, I,

3344
01:02:12,875 --> 01:02:13,875
I certainly hope that

3345
01:02:13,875 --> 01:02:14,750
that Bitcoin becomes

3346
01:02:14,750 --> 01:02:16,500
a leveler there.

3347
01:02:17,958 --> 01:02:20,250
And yeah, I mean, I

3348
01:02:20,250 --> 01:02:21,375
guess,

3349
01:02:21,375 --> 01:02:22,750
it sounds like you, you,

3350
01:02:22,750 --> 01:02:23,625
you see that happening

3351
01:02:23,625 --> 01:02:26,458
as, as well, right. Like,

3352
01:02:26,458 --> 01:02:28,708
that, that as things the,

3353
01:02:28,708 --> 01:02:30,000
the concept of fairness

3354
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:30,916
whenever we talk about this

3355
01:02:30,916 --> 01:02:31,708
in the Bitcoin space

3356
01:02:31,708 --> 01:02:32,875
is not fairness

3357
01:02:32,875 --> 01:02:34,041
in terms of

3358
01:02:34,041 --> 01:02:35,625
forced redistributed

3359
01:02:35,625 --> 01:02:37,833
fairness is just it's just,

3360
01:02:37,833 --> 01:02:39,750
skewing the system. Right?

3361
01:02:39,750 --> 01:02:40,541
So is that

3362
01:02:40,541 --> 01:02:41,000
is that kind of

3363
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:41,333
what you think

3364
01:02:41,333 --> 01:02:43,458
is going to happen here 100%.

3365
01:02:43,458 --> 01:02:44,000
Like it's

3366
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:44,750
just the equality

3367
01:02:44,750 --> 01:02:45,833
of opportunity?

3368
01:02:45,833 --> 01:02:46,208
You know,

3369
01:02:46,208 --> 01:02:47,333
and I think

3370
01:02:47,333 --> 01:02:47,958
for a lot of us

3371
01:02:47,958 --> 01:02:48,541
on the ground,

3372
01:02:48,541 --> 01:02:49,583
especially whether

3373
01:02:49,583 --> 01:02:50,500
we're entrepreneurs

3374
01:02:50,500 --> 01:02:51,708
or stakeholders

3375
01:02:51,708 --> 01:02:54,375
and just being African is

3376
01:02:54,375 --> 01:02:55,583
because of the fact

3377
01:02:55,583 --> 01:02:57,041
that Bitcoin is global,

3378
01:02:57,041 --> 01:02:57,875
like you're the king

3379
01:02:57,875 --> 01:02:58,833
and something that works

3380
01:02:58,833 --> 01:02:59,708
everywhere in the world.

3381
01:02:59,708 --> 01:03:00,583
So it's not a case

3382
01:03:00,583 --> 01:03:00,916
where we're

3383
01:03:00,916 --> 01:03:01,666
building something

3384
01:03:01,666 --> 01:03:02,250
and then

3385
01:03:02,250 --> 01:03:03,708
hoping it gets to the stage

3386
01:03:03,708 --> 01:03:04,583
and maturity level,

3387
01:03:04,583 --> 01:03:05,208
that it could talk

3388
01:03:05,208 --> 01:03:06,375
to the rest of the world

3389
01:03:06,375 --> 01:03:06,833
somewhere

3390
01:03:06,833 --> 01:03:07,666
where infrastructure

3391
01:03:07,666 --> 01:03:08,208
has been built

3392
01:03:08,208 --> 01:03:08,875
for the future,

3393
01:03:08,875 --> 01:03:10,458
that's built, you know, by

3394
01:03:10,458 --> 01:03:11,208
the future really

3395
01:03:11,208 --> 01:03:12,208
pretty much of the emphasis

3396
01:03:12,208 --> 01:03:12,583
on the ground,

3397
01:03:12,583 --> 01:03:13,666
but also

3398
01:03:13,666 --> 01:03:14,458
for the future, really,

3399
01:03:14,458 --> 01:03:14,875
in the sense

3400
01:03:14,875 --> 01:03:15,958
that soon as you're able

3401
01:03:15,958 --> 01:03:16,791
to contribute to this, you're

3402
01:03:16,791 --> 01:03:18,250
contributing to bettering

3403
01:03:18,250 --> 01:03:18,666
not just the

3404
01:03:18,666 --> 01:03:19,541
lives of Africans,

3405
01:03:19,541 --> 01:03:20,208
but everyone else

3406
01:03:20,208 --> 01:03:21,083
around the world.

3407
01:03:21,083 --> 01:03:21,625
I think this whole

3408
01:03:21,625 --> 01:03:22,583
collaborative nature

3409
01:03:22,583 --> 01:03:23,625
and kind of the collaborative

3410
01:03:23,625 --> 01:03:25,208
effects of Parliament

3411
01:03:25,208 --> 01:03:26,750
in just the Bitcoin ecosystem

3412
01:03:26,750 --> 01:03:27,083
as a whole,

3413
01:03:27,083 --> 01:03:27,625
I think, is

3414
01:03:27,625 --> 01:03:28,250
one of the things

3415
01:03:28,250 --> 01:03:29,000
that's missing

3416
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:30,083
on the continent in terms

3417
01:03:30,083 --> 01:03:31,041
of providing

3418
01:03:31,041 --> 01:03:32,083
that level of opportunity

3419
01:03:32,083 --> 01:03:32,875
that we're talking about,

3420
01:03:32,875 --> 01:03:33,708
and not just trying

3421
01:03:33,708 --> 01:03:34,541
to redistribute wealth.

3422
01:03:35,750 --> 01:03:36,083
No.

3423
01:03:36,083 --> 01:03:36,500
Like,

3424
01:03:36,500 --> 01:03:37,500
rules without

3425
01:03:37,500 --> 01:03:41,833
rulers is really equality,

3426
01:03:41,833 --> 01:03:43,041
towards the law.

3427
01:03:43,041 --> 01:03:44,750
Like if the rules are

3428
01:03:44,750 --> 01:03:45,833
the law, like then,

3429
01:03:45,833 --> 01:03:47,291
then we're all equal,

3430
01:03:47,291 --> 01:03:49,416
like, and, yeah, it's

3431
01:03:49,416 --> 01:03:50,583
that's a way to look at that,

3432
01:03:50,583 --> 01:03:51,875
I guess

3433
01:03:51,875 --> 01:03:52,583
the hundred percent

3434
01:03:52,583 --> 01:03:52,875
and the

3435
01:03:52,875 --> 01:03:53,750
permissionless nature,

3436
01:03:53,750 --> 01:03:54,125
I think

3437
01:03:54,125 --> 01:03:54,708
as well, of both

3438
01:03:54,708 --> 01:03:55,375
the development

3439
01:03:55,375 --> 01:03:56,458
and just being involved with

3440
01:03:56,458 --> 01:03:57,291
Bitcoin is a huge

3441
01:03:57,291 --> 01:03:57,750
one as well,

3442
01:03:57,750 --> 01:03:58,458
because that's

3443
01:03:58,458 --> 01:03:59,000
one of the reasons

3444
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:00,541
why we're able to Keenan

3445
01:04:00,541 --> 01:04:01,041
honestly even

3446
01:04:01,041 --> 01:04:01,791
have this conversation.

3447
01:04:01,791 --> 01:04:03,250
Like if I had to request

3448
01:04:03,250 --> 01:04:03,833
for permission

3449
01:04:03,833 --> 01:04:04,791
from the Nigerian government

3450
01:04:04,791 --> 01:04:06,250
to start Bitcoin development

3451
01:04:06,250 --> 01:04:08,541
to get it more Bitcoin space,

3452
01:04:08,541 --> 01:04:09,041
things would have be

3453
01:04:09,041 --> 01:04:09,833
radically different.

3454
01:04:09,833 --> 01:04:11,000
So I think for

3455
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:11,625
for a lot of people

3456
01:04:11,625 --> 01:04:12,291
around the world,

3457
01:04:12,291 --> 01:04:13,500
especially in the continent,

3458
01:04:13,500 --> 01:04:14,500
I think that level

3459
01:04:14,500 --> 01:04:15,583
of empowerment that comes

3460
01:04:15,583 --> 01:04:16,666
with not having to ask

3461
01:04:16,666 --> 01:04:17,291
for permission

3462
01:04:17,291 --> 01:04:18,125
to be

3463
01:04:18,125 --> 01:04:19,458
a useful person in the world

3464
01:04:19,458 --> 01:04:20,166
are just contribute

3465
01:04:20,166 --> 01:04:20,708
to this price,

3466
01:04:20,708 --> 01:04:21,333
which has been

3467
01:04:21,333 --> 01:04:22,750
a huge key motivator

3468
01:04:22,750 --> 01:04:23,333
for a lot of us

3469
01:04:23,333 --> 01:04:24,208
other developers,

3470
01:04:24,208 --> 01:04:25,333
entrepreneurs, or just

3471
01:04:25,333 --> 01:04:26,208
people who use Bitcoin.

3472
01:04:27,291 --> 01:04:28,000
Now, the

3473
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:28,458
the day

3474
01:04:28,458 --> 01:04:28,833
that you

3475
01:04:28,833 --> 01:04:29,875
have to ask permission

3476
01:04:29,875 --> 01:04:31,625
to do anything in Bitcoin is

3477
01:04:31,625 --> 01:04:33,000
is the day the Bitcoin dies.

3478
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:34,458
So fortunately, like

3479
01:04:34,458 --> 01:04:34,750
I don't know

3480
01:04:34,750 --> 01:04:36,083
if that's ever the case.

3481
01:04:36,083 --> 01:04:36,833
If you ever need

3482
01:04:36,833 --> 01:04:37,833
a government approval

3483
01:04:37,833 --> 01:04:39,375
to do anything with bitcoin

3484
01:04:39,375 --> 01:04:41,083
then is it you with

3485
01:04:41,083 --> 01:04:42,416
that is not bitcoin anymore?

3486
01:04:42,416 --> 01:04:43,500
I'm sorry

3487
01:04:43,500 --> 01:04:45,208
the project is over,

3488
01:04:45,208 --> 01:04:46,250
but that's not happening

3489
01:04:46,250 --> 01:04:48,625
anytime soon.

3490
01:04:48,625 --> 01:04:49,041
Is it?

3491
01:04:49,041 --> 01:04:50,166
If we do our work

3492
01:04:50,166 --> 01:04:51,291
and not know if we care,

3493
01:04:51,291 --> 01:04:53,000
if we stay vigilant and know

3494
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:53,625
run our nodes

3495
01:04:53,625 --> 01:04:55,708
and so on and so forth. Yeah.

3496
01:04:55,708 --> 01:04:56,958
Abu Bakar,

3497
01:04:56,958 --> 01:04:58,291
it's been great having you

3498
01:04:58,291 --> 01:04:59,375
on a great conversation.

3499
01:04:59,375 --> 01:05:01,666
Are is there anywhere else

3500
01:05:01,666 --> 01:05:02,291
you want to send

3501
01:05:02,291 --> 01:05:03,000
our listeners

3502
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:03,833
or anywhere

3503
01:05:03,833 --> 01:05:06,833
you want to direct them to?

3504
01:05:07,208 --> 01:05:08,333
Oh, I'd say for

3505
01:05:08,333 --> 01:05:09,250
those that are listening

3506
01:05:09,250 --> 01:05:09,791
that are

3507
01:05:09,791 --> 01:05:10,875
either on the continent

3508
01:05:10,875 --> 01:05:11,833
or looking to get involved,

3509
01:05:11,833 --> 01:05:12,583
the involvement,

3510
01:05:12,583 --> 01:05:13,666
I'd say follow,

3511
01:05:13,666 --> 01:05:14,750
you know,

3512
01:05:14,750 --> 01:05:15,291
be trust

3513
01:05:15,291 --> 01:05:16,458
stack our website

3514
01:05:16,458 --> 01:05:17,500
to take a look at the work

3515
01:05:17,500 --> 01:05:19,041
we're doing for X

3516
01:05:19,041 --> 01:05:20,791
and to get on nostre as well.

3517
01:05:20,791 --> 01:05:21,291
And personally,

3518
01:05:21,291 --> 01:05:22,250
just the developments

3519
01:05:22,250 --> 01:05:22,583
on the ground.

3520
01:05:22,583 --> 01:05:24,000
I catalog that in Forbes

3521
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,166
catalog for digital assets

3522
01:05:26,166 --> 01:05:26,958
and just generally

3523
01:05:26,958 --> 01:05:27,583
just keeping up.

3524
01:05:27,583 --> 01:05:28,708
Like I tend to say

3525
01:05:28,708 --> 01:05:29,333
a lot about this.

3526
01:05:29,333 --> 01:05:31,166
So there are nostre

3527
01:05:31,166 --> 01:05:33,791
I hate 1999 same as X

3528
01:05:33,791 --> 01:05:34,583
and that's pretty much it.

3529
01:05:34,583 --> 01:05:35,416
I think,

3530
01:05:35,416 --> 01:05:36,458
the last thing would be

3531
01:05:36,458 --> 01:05:37,666
just taking a look at Africa

3532
01:05:37,666 --> 01:05:38,666
more concretely like

3533
01:05:38,666 --> 01:05:40,208
and taking a pulse of it.

3534
01:05:40,208 --> 01:05:40,916
Just to check in

3535
01:05:40,916 --> 01:05:42,166
because it's not likely going

3536
01:05:42,166 --> 01:05:42,833
to dictate,

3537
01:05:42,833 --> 01:05:43,875
continue to dictate really

3538
01:05:43,875 --> 01:05:44,416
what happens

3539
01:05:44,416 --> 01:05:45,083
in the rest of the world.

3540
01:05:45,083 --> 01:05:45,375
Like there's

3541
01:05:45,375 --> 01:05:46,125
so much saturation

3542
01:05:46,125 --> 01:05:46,666
everywhere else.

3543
01:05:46,666 --> 01:05:48,416
And Africa's really smart.

3544
01:05:48,416 --> 01:05:49,833
It's a lot of like room

3545
01:05:49,833 --> 01:05:50,541
and freedom really,

3546
01:05:50,541 --> 01:05:51,583
to properly innovate

3547
01:05:51,583 --> 01:05:52,250
and other press like

3548
01:05:52,250 --> 01:05:53,791
Latin America twin, you know.

3549
01:05:53,791 --> 01:05:55,000
So I say keep an eye on that.

3550
01:05:56,208 --> 01:05:57,166
So last question,

3551
01:05:57,166 --> 01:06:00,166
why do you hate 1999?

3552
01:06:00,375 --> 01:06:01,833
I was born in 1999

3553
01:06:01,833 --> 01:06:04,291
and I joined X when I was 11.

3554
01:06:04,291 --> 01:06:05,500
So the combination

3555
01:06:05,500 --> 01:06:06,250
of those two things,

3556
01:06:06,250 --> 01:06:07,250
I guess for me,

3557
01:06:07,250 --> 01:06:09,583
I thought was cool at times,

3558
01:06:09,583 --> 01:06:11,000
seemed like a weird emo.

3559
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:12,083
But yeah, it's

3560
01:06:12,083 --> 01:06:12,791
one of those things

3561
01:06:12,791 --> 01:06:14,583
like, consequences

3562
01:06:14,583 --> 01:06:16,000
of joining social media

3563
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:17,208
at an early age.

3564
01:06:17,208 --> 01:06:20,208
I guess.

3565
01:06:20,208 --> 01:06:21,291
Okay.

3566
01:06:21,291 --> 01:06:21,583
Yeah.

3567
01:06:21,583 --> 01:06:22,833
Luke, any more questions?

3568
01:06:22,833 --> 01:06:24,750
No.

3569
01:06:24,750 --> 01:06:25,708
Thanks. Aboubakar.

3570
01:06:25,708 --> 01:06:26,416
This is been a

3571
01:06:26,416 --> 01:06:28,083
great conversation. So, yeah.

3572
01:06:28,083 --> 01:06:29,666
That said,

3573
01:06:29,666 --> 01:06:31,875
check out everywhere you've,

3574
01:06:31,875 --> 01:06:33,125
you've already directed

3575
01:06:33,125 --> 01:06:35,500
people to and, yeah.

3576
01:06:35,500 --> 01:06:37,375
Thanks again for joining us.

3577
01:06:37,375 --> 01:06:37,791
Thanks so much

3578
01:06:37,791 --> 01:06:39,000
for having me, guys.

3579
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:40,083
Hope to see you again soon

3580
01:06:40,083 --> 01:06:40,875
in real life.

3581
01:06:40,875 --> 01:06:42,916
So yeah.

3582
01:06:42,916 --> 01:06:43,750
Thanks, guys.

3583
01:06:43,750 --> 01:06:44,625
Thanks again.

3584
01:06:44,625 --> 01:06:45,666
This has been the Bitcoin

3585
01:06:45,666 --> 01:06:46,625
Infinity Show.

3586
01:06:46,625 --> 01:06:47,541
Thank you for listening.